chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited November 2014
Not saying the system is only for money but that is also a reason. Double rp weekend was a sucess and made tons of money but only because people were buying botted rp, not the overpriced offerings at bazaar or zen store.
In a way then to bots aren't that bad for cryptic. It's selling ad on third party sites which hurts them
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited November 2014
Well, I think most people don't really like the idea that core gameplay mechanics are made acceptable because of bots...I don't think Cryptic does, either...which is why I think we need to come up with an alternative solution.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited November 2014
Macjae, exactly the point I made earlier in the thread.
By making the stones BoA, and cutting out the botters, Cryptic is potentially losing money, because it destroys a pathway for players to buy Zen, transfer it to AD and then purchase Refinement Stones off the AH to level their Artifact. Once the supply of stones provided by the bots is eliminated, the amount of RP available via the AH is going to plummet, making it a non-avenue towards improving your artifacts.
The only options left are buying over $600 worth of Blood Rubies from the Zen market, or grinding it out yourself. If Cryptic's plan really was to monetize refinement, they've done a bad job of it.
Which also leads me to believe Cryptic's intention is that Artifact Equipment become a time sink, not a money sink, in order to keep players in the game, and then get them to spend money in other ways.
I just proposed what I think is a more "fun" way to keep players around.
I really like this proposed mechanic addition to add to the refinement process. This addition would make it feel more like I am involved in upgrading my artifacts rather than feeling like I have to forgo "playing" or "having fun" in order to grind for items or AD (or buy Zen) to do so.
As a community moderator, is it possible for you to get some of the devs to look at and comment on this thread? I believe this addition would make the game way more fun, and would like some official input at this point.
I really like this proposed mechanic addition to add to the refinement process. This addition would make it feel more like I am involved in upgrading my artifacts rather than feeling like I have to forgo "playing" or "having fun" in order to grind for items or AD (or buy Zen) to do so.
Wonderful idea, this would at least make it feel as though you're at least getting something for your time on those off days you dont seem to get anything important done.
That being said, I find it unlikely to occur as currently suggested. Not only would it be unfair to current Legendary Artifact owners, but as already mentioned it's not that difficult to get to lvl 60 which is around 900k experience. That's a significant portion of an artifacts leveling process, around 25%.
Considering it would take a casual player around 1-2 weeks and a veteran grinder 3-5 days (not even touching on any experience loopholes and illegal macro efforts), we can assume it would be around 15 - 30+ days for the average player to go from Common to Legendary.
At the current norm it would take the casual player FAR longer to do it the traditional method, either by sheer grinding or earning the funds to purchase it quicker. Some balance would be needed here, like reducing the XP to RP refining ratio to 3:1 or so.
At least then it would still be a difficult thing to achieve.
Excellent mockup presentation. This part of your proposed design is what caught my eye most, as this game has become very alt-unfriendly since mod 3 and up, with lazy grind for life/low reward design. I support any refinement concept that allows me to play alts and not cost me a fortune in time or money, instead of focusing on just 1 or 2 mains. If it was up to me, I'd make everything account-wide.
I would, too. I don't think a game should punish a player for wanting to run more characters.
This is a fantastic idea and I have no clue why it is still not implemented in the game. This is a way for hard working players to be able to earn more, even if they are not the wealthiest, as opposed to the current system which relies almost solely on in game wealth for purchasing up refining points from others who have farmed them.
Should a player need to work to raise their own legendary equipment, or simply be able to afford it?
I don't say this often, but seeing this implemented would probably make me install the game again
I love to burst bubbles.
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johnnyquantumMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited November 2014
Maybe I have mmo burnout, but instead of getting exited about artifact gear, I just see more grind, and think it might be time to go back to single player/purchase games, sigh!
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited November 2014
It's the difference between presenting a player with a task he knows is going to take a while, but is doable small bits at a time, and a task that just seems impossible. The latter makes people quit without even starting, which is very bad for business.
Maybe I have mmo burnout, but instead of getting exited about artifact gear, I just see more grind, and think it might be time to go back to single player/purchase games, sigh!
Im in the same boat
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Ironzerg79, I really appreciate your proposal and the time you take to explain it in all your answers. My hat off to you.
For the quick answer, YES PLEASE, +1 I'd like to see this implemented in the presented way.
For the longer answer, I am a long time player, being here since Open Beta times. Some of my fondest memories come from the early days of the game, when it was a challenge to beat Karrundax. Just remembering us trying to beat the 2 bosses with no artifacts and just partial T1 and T2 equipment. The group needed to play together and we had a lot of fun together. And the reward was a piece of T2 equipment, or not. It felt fitting.
Today it is more about dailies here, dailies there and soloing if you want the dragon coffers not being snatched by others.
The fun and the players went away.
So a most definite YES to us playing the content we chose and being able to upgrade artifact weapons and not this botting / AH buying / foundry farming / RP madness we got at the moment.
To the Mods, please make happen that Cryptic notices this and gives it a fair chance.
I like this idea a lot, I really hope that Cryptic listens to their players for once. I for one won't be spending a dime to level any artifacts or artifact weapons. That's just ridiculous. I'd rather watch paint dry...
IT Guru & avid gamer since 1981
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited November 2014
This is definitely something I am 100% for and I read a lot of suggestions by the Community (in game, in the forums, and elsewhere), most of which I either disagree with or could see potential in. It is rare when I see a fundamental mechanic change/addition suggestion that I agree with totally. With this proposed mechanic, I can see it working without the need for any feeling of potential, as it is awesome as it has been laid out, with no need for any changes to make it acceptable to me.
The xp system is a really good idea, i like it alot, also if cryptic were to release a zen only iten like the Sharandar completion thing but for "insta legendary" wepons artifacts etc, i dunno at £10-15, i bet they would sell ALOT of them. Players could then grind their way up thru playing AND refining, or just pay up and go straight there.
Personally i'd pay a reasonable ammount to go straight to legendary, and i'd bet i'm not alone.
(so far i think ive spent arround £100 here and consider it good value, but there are increasing fustrations in game that make me reluctant to spend more atm)
I like this, perhaps they could just copy your format and just rename experience to reflect playtime, like reputation maybe instead of experience? As for account unlock maybe to easy - character seems best.
This is definitely something I am 100% for and I read a lot of suggestions by the Community (in game, in the forums, and elsewhere), most of which I either disagree with or could see potential in. It is rare when I see a fundamental mechanic change/addition suggestion that I agree with totally. With this proposed mechanic, I can see it working without the need for any feeling of potential, as it is awesome as it has been laid out, with no need for any changes to make it acceptable to me.
Agreed, couldn't have said it better myself.
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enorezMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited November 2014
Basically, the idea of EXP refine system sounds good to me.
And about the implementation I have some different idea:p
Once you hit 60, then you will gain raw refining ash from daily quest/dungeon run/pvp match/etc. ( just like the glory, maybe the gain rate can be speedup by some special item, or a new overload stone.)
Also I would like rework the Hoard/FeyBlessing into another form.
First they should only have one rank, the old one wont work anymore and can be exchanged to their new form, high rank one can be exchanged for 3 or more I think, additionally it can be a rare drop from mobs in daily maps.
And in your inventory view, you can spend your hoard with some of those refining ash to forge a legendary BoA artifact gear refining stone ( or a Feyblessing for a legendary BoA artifact refining stone. ) which worth 500K RP or more
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited November 2014
I think those ideas are cool, but I purposefully chose the method I did because I know the Neverwinter team has very limited bandwidth, and every new idea they want to implement requires resources to implement.
The system I laid out on Page 1 makes (what I think) best use of already existing systems and methods, and I hope would require minimal resources to retro fit for the new purposed of leveling Artifacts, thus proving a significant ROI for the time spent.
Keep in mind that suggestions like this will only get picked up by Cryptic if there is an opportunity to profit somewhere. So far I am not seeing one here and I think that's the main thing this is missing if we ever want something like this to become a reality (I sure as hell do).
I'm thinking maybe give XP boosters a role in this? Give people a whole lot of reason to buy lots of them! Also, perhaps, they could create an item that allows you to store more RP in your allocation pool, or perhaps, even one that lets you allocate it to any character on your account!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited November 2014
I laid out some initial thoughts on the ROI in the first post.
One of them included selling EXP boosters, since the faster you could get EXP, the faster you could level your Artifact
But overall, I think making the journey to a Legendary weapon MORE FUN is an excellent form of ROI for the game.
Heck, I know some people who got lucky on a Legendary drop and immediately sell it on the AH because the "cost" to get any use out of it is far greater than the perceived value, so they'd just rather have the AD from the sale.
Which sucks. Getting a rare item like that should induce a sense of excitement, not dread.
Can you imagine a D&D story that ended with a hero pulling epic loot out of a dragon hoard, only to talk about how he can't wait to sell it on the auction house. Talk about the antithesis of D&D, right?
I like this a lot! I really miss the usefulness of XP after lvl 60. Nothing like advancing by just killing monsters. That's kinda what it's all about for a lot of players.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited November 2014
Yep, it has to be fun, or people are just going to walk away.
Comments
In a way then to bots aren't that bad for cryptic. It's selling ad on third party sites which hurts them
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
By making the stones BoA, and cutting out the botters, Cryptic is potentially losing money, because it destroys a pathway for players to buy Zen, transfer it to AD and then purchase Refinement Stones off the AH to level their Artifact. Once the supply of stones provided by the bots is eliminated, the amount of RP available via the AH is going to plummet, making it a non-avenue towards improving your artifacts.
The only options left are buying over $600 worth of Blood Rubies from the Zen market, or grinding it out yourself. If Cryptic's plan really was to monetize refinement, they've done a bad job of it.
Which also leads me to believe Cryptic's intention is that Artifact Equipment become a time sink, not a money sink, in order to keep players in the game, and then get them to spend money in other ways.
I just proposed what I think is a more "fun" way to keep players around.
As a community moderator, is it possible for you to get some of the devs to look at and comment on this thread? I believe this addition would make the game way more fun, and would like some official input at this point.
I completely agree. This is a good suggestion.
That being said, I find it unlikely to occur as currently suggested. Not only would it be unfair to current Legendary Artifact owners, but as already mentioned it's not that difficult to get to lvl 60 which is around 900k experience. That's a significant portion of an artifacts leveling process, around 25%.
Considering it would take a casual player around 1-2 weeks and a veteran grinder 3-5 days (not even touching on any experience loopholes and illegal macro efforts), we can assume it would be around 15 - 30+ days for the average player to go from Common to Legendary.
At the current norm it would take the casual player FAR longer to do it the traditional method, either by sheer grinding or earning the funds to purchase it quicker. Some balance would be needed here, like reducing the XP to RP refining ratio to 3:1 or so.
At least then it would still be a difficult thing to achieve.
I would, too. I don't think a game should punish a player for wanting to run more characters.
You want to retain customers, not toons
Should a player need to work to raise their own legendary equipment, or simply be able to afford it?
listen too the players dev's
Im in the same boat
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
For the quick answer, YES PLEASE, +1 I'd like to see this implemented in the presented way.
For the longer answer, I am a long time player, being here since Open Beta times. Some of my fondest memories come from the early days of the game, when it was a challenge to beat Karrundax. Just remembering us trying to beat the 2 bosses with no artifacts and just partial T1 and T2 equipment. The group needed to play together and we had a lot of fun together. And the reward was a piece of T2 equipment, or not. It felt fitting.
Today it is more about dailies here, dailies there and soloing if you want the dragon coffers not being snatched by others.
The fun and the players went away.
So a most definite YES to us playing the content we chose and being able to upgrade artifact weapons and not this botting / AH buying / foundry farming / RP madness we got at the moment.
To the Mods, please make happen that Cryptic notices this and gives it a fair chance.
"ZAP!", "BAM!", "KA-POW!"
- Batman
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Personally i'd pay a reasonable ammount to go straight to legendary, and i'd bet i'm not alone.
(so far i think ive spent arround £100 here and consider it good value, but there are increasing fustrations in game that make me reluctant to spend more atm)
Agreed, couldn't have said it better myself.
And about the implementation I have some different idea:p
Once you hit 60, then you will gain raw refining ash from daily quest/dungeon run/pvp match/etc. ( just like the glory, maybe the gain rate can be speedup by some special item, or a new overload stone.)
Also I would like rework the Hoard/FeyBlessing into another form.
First they should only have one rank, the old one wont work anymore and can be exchanged to their new form, high rank one can be exchanged for 3 or more I think, additionally it can be a rare drop from mobs in daily maps.
And in your inventory view, you can spend your hoard with some of those refining ash to forge a legendary BoA artifact gear refining stone ( or a Feyblessing for a legendary BoA artifact refining stone. ) which worth 500K RP or more
The system I laid out on Page 1 makes (what I think) best use of already existing systems and methods, and I hope would require minimal resources to retro fit for the new purposed of leveling Artifacts, thus proving a significant ROI for the time spent.
I'm thinking maybe give XP boosters a role in this? Give people a whole lot of reason to buy lots of them! Also, perhaps, they could create an item that allows you to store more RP in your allocation pool, or perhaps, even one that lets you allocate it to any character on your account!
One of them included selling EXP boosters, since the faster you could get EXP, the faster you could level your Artifact
But overall, I think making the journey to a Legendary weapon MORE FUN is an excellent form of ROI for the game.
Heck, I know some people who got lucky on a Legendary drop and immediately sell it on the AH because the "cost" to get any use out of it is far greater than the perceived value, so they'd just rather have the AD from the sale.
Which sucks. Getting a rare item like that should induce a sense of excitement, not dread.
Can you imagine a D&D story that ended with a hero pulling epic loot out of a dragon hoard, only to talk about how he can't wait to sell it on the auction house. Talk about the antithesis of D&D, right?