You can get almost everything from your chests. What drops in the chest is yours. The rest is for everyone. If you don't like what your guild does then join a pug, no one cares if you need something.
Some people don't have the charity runs mindset, they want their share of the loot, especially if it's expensive. There's nothing wrong with that.
And to everyone explaining/defending the greed approach -
I'm sorry but if you play to "get rewarded for your time", maybe you should do something else. Like go play football, the weather is nice :P
Games are a past time activity, not a job.
No sense ._.
Atm "Need" don't binds the drop to you, and you need AD as all (because ur drop BoE will be at AH)
By "Greed" you all have a chance of drops ^^
*Wait state.. DEVs will listen us sooner or later*
| Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
< Guild: Pugno Fiammante >
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited October 2014
Ok, logic is simple here.
The stuff from the chest is BOP, you cannot sell it, whatsoever. You should get your gear from there.
Even if an upgrade drops, if it is BOE, it is rare and you should sell it for profit.
One of the main points of a dungeon is to get loot and progress, right? So if you need gear and I don't and we clear together, fine i am helping you get your gear, from the chest. But if it drops off the boss, rolling on it is the only way to get a return for my time and efforts of clearing. If you need on it, i don't even have a chance to be compensated at all. It's not fair to the rest of your team whose efforts were contributed to the clear.
Also, while we are fighting, I don't have time to think "should i need or should i greed on this item" because i am probably kiting 20 mobs at the time. If all i do is hit shift 2 i don't have to think, but if i am worrying need or greed, now i will miss a dodge and die. Very very annoying here.
And I know it's hard to pass on loot you need - we had this argument when i used to run my guild - but it is simply so easy and fast to gear from chests now, and those people who don't need gear and are helping you, they deserve a shot at making some AD for their time, just like you do. It's the only way to be fair.
When i m new to the server, i m not used to greed run loot rule. I got kicked when i click need and i dun even know why i got kicked. Then a kind soul told me bout the rule and i felt its weird at 1st. But as i think about it, i does makes sense.
To cut short on this topic and avoid ppl flaming each other, i ma show u the main reason why ppl do greed run. Lets say a CN party consist of 4 CW and 1 HR and they are doing class priority run. The chance for each individual to get GF, GWF, TR & SW item is 20% each member. But when HR item drop, HR has 100% chance while those 4 CW has 0%. When CW item dropped, each CW has 25% in getting the item while HR has 0%. Now we summarize the chance of getting item for each member. Each CW has 4x 20% + 25% + 0% while HR has 4x 20% +100% +0%. This conclude HR has better chance in getting more drop than CW. Where as Greed run give totaly equal chance for each member to get item. Yes we can fix a party of different class to even out the odds but the problem with match making instance like skirmish is u get random class match.
EDIT : also i m take this opportunity to request the comunity to run greed on weapon and armour only..There is no reason to roll greed when all of the member could roll need on item like enchantment, epic belt, ring and necklace. This is to prevent missclicking or cheating. IF all agree, could some1 post an official thread to clarify this and ask the admin to sticky it. So there wont be chaos happen here and there. Thanks.
Probably the only practical solution now is to make a Need group in LFG, just the way ppl say "greed run".
The bad thing here is, that the devs made the system with Need/Greed/Pass and it's common sense, that when you're in a random group(PUG), it's normal to use that system and not an "user made" one and for all ppl that want to do "greed runs", to shout that in LFG/Zone, so everyone that joins that group is familiar with the the rules.
ATM it seem like some ppl are trying to force the other way around - make que matches with user made rules, that should be clear to all, but they're missing the fact, that there are new members every day, so there will be always ppl who use the que system the devs gave them to enter dungeons and then use the Need/Greed/Pass system as well.
It does pay to pick up the "green junk" as you can make a fair amount of profit from it in gold. YES, you do require gold in order to do many things. I hit "greed" on green items 95% of the time in PUG groups. This includes enchants or runestones as they ARE green items. Ditto residuum. Anyone whom complains "stop looting green trash" doesn't know the value of loot.
Although I did the same early on, the constant rolls are kind of annoying. Would be nice for an auto pass for green unidentified stuff. There's kind of a shortage of usage of gold. I have over 3000 myself, mostly from leadership. I generally won't say anyting personally, but I will be a little annoyed.
As for the suggested "boost the rolls for your class" statement above this would just make it harder to get armor etc for your alts, and I speak AGAINST that even being a player whom prefers to keep one character only. I may EVENTUALLY get a dragonborne something after I save up enough free Zen for a pack. I wouldn't want it made harder for me to equip her just because my main rogue cannot obtain other class items for the dragonborne. Think on that one a moment.
Didn't you get a higher chance for your class anyway, thought I read that a while ago. Though if they increased based on gear then people could just swap gear on the roll to get the odds in their favour.
Greed is fair for all - you may not think so since your running the dungeon for YOU. However look at it this way. You have no upgrades in the dungeon, why would you run it if someone else can take all the gear? Why do the dungeon if you have nothing to gain from it? If everyone needed everything you would hope the boss would drop something that you can need on - otherwise you are wasting your time.
However most people will not have a problem if you ask before you need as its an upgrade for you and you will wear it. You just need to ask and wait for a response, if they have a problem they will say something and you should greed it and hope you win. Perhaps its only 1 person who has a problem and whoever else wins may just trade it to you if they win, everyone needs diamonds so greed is the most fair. As people have mentioned some class items are worth more then others - like SW gear is worth more usually. Its not been out as long as TR / DC / GF / GWF gear and is in most demand as the class is the newest. So why would it be fair if we let SW's keep all the loot and sell them for 1m+ diamonds each if we "accept" some warlock needing it just to sell?
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matiagronxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 251Arc User
Actually you are wrong in assuming that people only play to be on an AD farming grind. You totally forget the fact that this is a GAME that people wish to enjoy and not everyone is tryharding to the top as fast as they can. Some people gear more slowly and finding that last set piece is a great accomplishment. Sorry that you don't enjoy the game and treat it like a "job" or an investment but some of us do.
Eveyrone is farming AD by playing dungeons. All boe items can be sold for ad, end of story. I get that you feel like u accomplished smthin by rollin the last set piece of an epic item from a drop but that is just your first impression of the game, clearly you are not playing for long. When u accomplish your task of getting your first full T2 set you should know that u have JUST started this game. After a while u will understand that throwing away half a million ad to feel "accomplished" was a fluke.
If u want the armor piece its for free in the chest waiting for you, with the added option of picking whichever u miss. I am in this game from beta, more than one year, have only one main character and i am still enjoying this game, farming dungeons for AD is part of the fun. Grinding on a MMO is part of the fun. If u burn out for a few days its part of the fun. I have made millions upon millions for over a year and i still havent got a single R10 and have only one Legendary Arti. Normal progression in this game take A LONG TIME...its timeless entertainment...
I think it just keeps it "fair" for everyone in the group tho I dont completely agree with it either. It basically comes down to a lot of people who play MMOs who are just selfish and greedy and will need on items they just intend to sell, this applies to random green/blue items too.
Personally I don't mind people needing on an item if they are indeed going to use it as it is in upgrade etc, as this is a large part of why people run dungeons to help them gear for tougher places etc. So I say if someone asks if they can have the item and we see that they do actually need it then I wouldnt say "no you can't" cos it would benefit them a lot more than the rest of us.
Yes at first coming from other mmos I thought the greed was a little silly but after somone explained why I could see why people do it.
As other have said the chests your loot - you get that 100% of the time. All the other loot is everyones loot, which is why it is greeded so everyone has a chance at it. Yes it may take a few times to get it. But look at it this way : you can obviously do the dungeon, so you don't actually need that item anyway. Just have some patience, and you will get what you want.
May the RNG Gods smile on you today!
Adorable Temptress - 23.4k Temptation SW
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
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rlrobrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The stuff from the chest is BOP, you cannot sell it, whatsoever. You should get your gear from there.
Even if an upgrade drops, if it is BOE, it is rare and you should sell it for profit.
^^^This is exactly how things work.
The only reason well geared players are willing to run dungeons is for profit. So, be thankfully you are being carried by more experienced and better geared players and that you'll eventually be able to get you gear from the chest. The other option would be running dungeons with fresh and bad geared people that (most likely) wouldn't be able to complete them.
You're not alone in the dungeon. If you choose Need in the item basically you're saying "k I'll take this thx for helping me while I didn't say you were and give you no chances to get what you entered here for".
The drops in the dungeon itself are worthless, people only join the group to get what the last boss drops, which is AD. Everyone needs AD.
Whenever I'm the leader of a group, an expensive item drops and someone uses Need I kick him with no mercy. You don't like it? Don't come in my groups then, because whenever I pug I make it clear in the /lfg: "Greed run".
For some reason people expect you to greed on boss loot in dungeons. I find this baffling.
Lets say the boss drops an item for my class, an item which is better than what I have, which I intend to use, which I NEED. Why would someone expect me to "greed" on it? He/she cant use it and just want to sell it on the AH for, well no better word to say it - greed.
We play a game. We run dungeons for fun and to get nice new shinny things for our toon. I never cared for any loot I cant use, and I never cared for the AH. I just enjoy the game. why other people can't?
Edit: typos.
I had the same question when i started this game , but , once you have all your gear and want to make some AD , let us know if you'll not do the same "greed mentality "
wich i agree with a 100% ; enless im with guildies and want to gear up someone , and even in this case , the final chest is what they are supposed to count on , not the drop !
...
(this is why I only do runs with the guild AFTER I'm geared, which kind of makes the whole point of helpful guild moot).
...
If this is how your guild is... then frankly your guild is awful and you should go shopping for a better one. Cloaks run DDs with each other many times knowing that one or more players is looking for a specific bit of gear. If that gear drops, we give it to that player who needs it regardless of who ends up with it. The higher geared members do it not out of a desire to profit by the DD run but to help guild mates. Simple as that.
Our rules are:
1: Need if you feel like it on anything other than boss gear loot drops. That means all the trash loot, enchants, profession stuff, marks, shards, etc.
2: Greed on all boss gear drops no matter what. If it turns out the drop is actually needed for use by someone, the team generally gives that item over to the one who needs it. See... we, as a guild, communicate well like that
Any individual party is free to work out it's own terms for any given run. CN runs tend to be NEED everything except Draco gear drop (including other boss loot, since it's always a ring or belt that everyone can NEED on anyway).
I, personally, LOVE the idea of making ALL items acquired by NEED bound to character. I love that idea and feel like Cryptic should implement that ASAP - it's a fabulous idea and would but an end to this debate once and for all which has been going on for years (it's the same in other cryptic games too).
EDIT
If you PUG... all bets are off. Don't pug if you actually expect to get any gear from the rolls. It's really as simple as that -- pugs only for getting seals and chest loot, all else is pure luck. If you cry over not getting something in a pug, IMO, it's your own fault for pugging. It's like compaining about Zone chat being bereft of all value.. of course it is... Don't use it. I haven't used zone in... months. Same with pugs. Just Say No.
I, personally, LOVE the idea of making ALL items acquired by NEED bound to character. I love that idea and feel like Cryptic should implement that ASAP - it's a fabulous idea and would but an end to this debate once and for all which has been going on for years (it's the same in other cryptic games too).
Sadly, this would not end the problem. People would rather need with a 100% chance of getting 6-10k ad worth of salvage than let the die roll and have only a 20% chance of getting a 200k boe item.
What is fair to me might not be fair to you, and vica verca.
All that matters is you find a group that agrees on the loot rules.
Just make sure everyone knows you want a need run.
I want greed on epic gear at least.
Guildies or friends are different, but I dont know you.
I want my fair share of the booty or won't do my share of the lifting.
If you really need some drop, greed and ask if you can get it.
If not expensive most often a trade can be made.
You want need runs? Fine, go find people who want the same.
Probably you won't find manny people. If you find people dungeons
it will be mostly undergeared, but more important, inexperienced players.
It will take you multiple the time it would require to gear on greed runs.
But if that's what you want who am I to stop you?
I have to say, I never liked this " Greed " thing either and in playing NWO for a little while now I thought I had it figured out but it is a real cluster F@*# if you ask me. When I first started playing I was green ( no pun intended ) to the way of looting, or so I thought. However it seemed to me that if you were in a P.U.G. the consensus was " Greens " were open, " Blues " everyone needed, and Purples were " Greed" rolls. However that system went out the door with the good sense it would seem, now it is every person for them selves.
To be honest I have been in many pugs and I stuck to this philosophy, but sadly, the looting in this game now is just as cut throat as everything else. I have done some greed runs but only because I was extremely bored and quite frankly I find the looting system very suspect anyways, ever sense I started playing this game I never felt that the looting was fair in pugs, I always had the sense that somehow I was getting shafted just because it always seemed to me that the Leader and 1 or 2 others always seemed to get everything, it just never felt like I and or others in the pugs got a fair shake at the loot, almost like a person(s) were running a side app that allowed them to get better rolls then everyone else. Just a feeling I know but a feeling none the less.
And the Sot and LOL runs are no different, people need on everything when they can regardless of item color, especially the purples now.
As to the same mentality to be present in " GUILD " runs, that is absolutely ridicules and if I were in a guild and this behavior was present I would leave no questions asked, there is no way on Gods green earth that I would run with " GUILDIES " and see someone get any item that I would need for my character just because they may say greed boss loot or whatever. Why the heck would I want to go on a epic or norm run and pass up loot that my toon needed, and a true guild member should not even think of basically stealing a needed item from someone, especially a " GUILDIE "
If the DEVS feel like this loot system needs an over-haul, I would ask that you take a look at the DDO looting system, that is a great, if not the best game looting system anyone could use. For those who are not familiar with DDO looting, everyone gets their fair share, and the chest loot is the same, however one nice feature in DDO Chest loot, it has a drop down menu with every party members name, so if one feels inclined they could actually, switch loot items, in the event that I get something you needed or someone got something I need. Or maybe someone saved your butt earlier in the quest and you just feel like giving them something just as a thanks for not leaving them behind, while everyone else in NWO was waiting at the door to next area, ready to vote kick your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out.
Nope, NWO Devs you have to get rid of this system and get a fair and impartial one where everyone gets their fair share, and even though I am not in a Guild, I would say to those that are experiencing this same behavior from so called " GUILDIES "get out because that is now way to be treated in a family.
All this type of behavior needs a closer examination that's for sure, because if it isn't one thing that is ruining the sense of community in this game it's another, I think it's time for the Devs and the better GUILDS to put their foot down and start speaking out against these actions, it's not right.
Need being rolled for you only on an item that does not appear in your collection.
If you sell or salvage obviously you didnt need it and would only happen once anyway, the majority of casual gamers dont farm runs so the farmers will prob not be overly affected. (prob only really workable for gear and not enchants, artifacts etc as they are a bit different ie everyone can need it anyway so why hastle on greeding it)
All other rolls auto greed, there is no limit to the ammount you can hold via greed this way so just sell all the junk you aquire after runs.
It would work very well i think and stop all the hastle re Need/Greed and all the "issues" it causes, then we can all just get on with killing ingame stuff
You get enough to go buy your luxury items from your leadership and dailies.
That's bs tbh. As someone who took so long to get his gear when loot was actually worth something I'm going to highly disagree with that statement. In order to make enough you need to abuse the fact that many toons can use leadership. Though I do have a lot of tools and investments. Right now I say that you make less than enough unless you abuse passive AD generation. Such as me working on 28 leadership toons from my initial 18. Not sure if I'll finish it though.
You already get your chance by defeating the boss when the game decides which item it should drop.
Then you get people playing the new class, rolling need on it, and finding out it's worth more on the ah than it's actually worth, repeat and on average make more than every other class. You can easily feign actually needing an item. It's much better to actually earn it form the chest and allow everyone a fair share of the loot.
This reminds me of threads we had at launch. Some threadnaughts were made about "why everyone can need rogue gear even if they can't equip it", then de devs made the current roll system we have now. What's funny is that everyone has now realized that character progression is all about ADs, anything else is anecdotal/meaningless. So yep when I play my DC, greed run only, because why would my character's progression be slower than the SW's or the ranger's one? That's silly.
When you need an item you're basically saying "my character's progression is more important than yours", and that's very rude. If it's a run between friends or the members of the same guild, fair enough, they probably care enough about you to let you roll and equip a 1M item. With other groups, the only fair rule is sharing equal chances at getting the "character progression" magics, ie ADs.
Keep in mind that the chance at getting a T2 item in a chest are 10% or so for the 8300 GS dungeons. Which means that you'll get your stuff eventually like everyone else. That's quite a high drop rate in comparison with the nightmare the tyranny of dragon content is.
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scoutmasterjMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 101Arc User
edited October 2014
I think "need" is a strong word here. You "need" that helmet to complete your set, I "need" to buy enchantments/marks to upgrade my Artifact.
Frankly, no one "needs" anything. They want stuff. I form a lot of groups for eLOL runs (for someone reason, no one wants my HR in their group, all GF's, GWF's and CW's, so I form them myself). I always tell people greed the epics, need the rest. Everyone seems fine with it. We all get a equal chance at the epics. Nothing needs to change.
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epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
They key move is to wait for someone to need before you roll need for it in protest. If you roll need on an item the other 4 greed on then you need to offer the other 4 equivilent salvage cost for that item each... It is the only way or get kicked and be reported as a ninja. Its fair game unless you offer everyone say t2 armor bits for that bop malabog/formorian peice of gear if not greed for it.
If you don't need the gear, as in to equip onto your character, or its a set item you're not collecting....then you don't need it, literally. Hence everything else is for greed, salvage or selling - AD Profit.
This is mostly true just for level 60's. As when leveling, everyone needs their better gear to progress, since you have no sets to worry about.
Greed only runs always have exceptions to made by just saying so, if you said in chat 'Hey, I need this one for the set'.
Even if you are still in blue gear, just randomly taking an item that would fit your character is frowned upon. You should have a goal gear to strive towards, because ..if you suddenly get your set item you really need - the gear you 'needed' before will be salavaged for AD.
As to the same mentality to be present in " GUILD " runs, that is absolutely ridicules and if I were in a guild and this behavior was present I would leave no questions asked, there is no way on Gods green earth that I would run with " GUILDIES " and see someone get any item that I would need for my character just because they may say greed boss loot or whatever. Why the heck would I want to go on a epic or norm run and pass up loot that my toon needed, and a true guild member should not even think of basically stealing a needed item from someone, especially a " GUILDIE "
...
Agree-- that said, the proper way is to work with your guild mates rather than compete against them. The way to do that is to ensure everyone is operating under the same agreed upon rules. A properly functioning guild team can greed on loot then hand over a truely needed item just as easily. More to the point, a properly functioning guild team will have talked over the needs of the team beforehand and established that should X item drop, Y player will NEED it and everyone else will PASS (or GREED... same either way). The NEED/GREED system is simply extraneous UI for a good guild, since members will work to ensure their mates have what they need despite the UI foolishness one way or the other.
A person who is not in a guild that works this way is either themselves not interested in helping guild mates gear up or isn't in a very good guild (IMO). Might be it's expected members will already have what they need, or will otherwise get it on their own, or it might be the members are just all like what I just mentioned. If you are in a guild like that, and don't like it -- that's your own fault. Find another guild, there's no shortage of them. Many guilds are awesome and work hard to help each other.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited October 2014
My guild runs with a fairly basic need-if-you-need-it rule. Since everyone can need-roll enchants and crafting junk, we go with that. Most boss drops get greed-rolled but if someone is gearing, they're free to roll need on whatever they can use. Sometimes we agree to a greed run if we have to fill a party position from outside. It's not a big deal.
It's a small guild. We know each other and generally know what kind of equipment everyone has. Some of us, myself included, would not choose to equip an unbound set item, but others have no such qualms, and I view that as a personal decision.
This is slightly more complex than simply hitting shift+2 on everything that pops on your screen, so I can actually sympathize with people who want to greed all since that's just easier. Using different rolls depending on what the item is means you actually have to think about it, which isn't ideal under fighting conditions.
As to the mindset of carrying someone through the dungeon so they can loot the chest at the end... sure, sometimes that's what we're doing. But I don't expect to be compensated for it. I also haven't run every dungeon 500 times, so I dunno.
Comments
Some people don't have the charity runs mindset, they want their share of the loot, especially if it's expensive. There's nothing wrong with that.
No sense ._.
Atm "Need" don't binds the drop to you, and you need AD as all (because ur drop BoE will be at AH)
By "Greed" you all have a chance of drops ^^
*Wait state.. DEVs will listen us sooner or later*
| Cìrdan - GF | Cìrdan The Lightbringer - OP |
< Guild: Pugno Fiammante >
The stuff from the chest is BOP, you cannot sell it, whatsoever. You should get your gear from there.
Even if an upgrade drops, if it is BOE, it is rare and you should sell it for profit.
One of the main points of a dungeon is to get loot and progress, right? So if you need gear and I don't and we clear together, fine i am helping you get your gear, from the chest. But if it drops off the boss, rolling on it is the only way to get a return for my time and efforts of clearing. If you need on it, i don't even have a chance to be compensated at all. It's not fair to the rest of your team whose efforts were contributed to the clear.
Also, while we are fighting, I don't have time to think "should i need or should i greed on this item" because i am probably kiting 20 mobs at the time. If all i do is hit shift 2 i don't have to think, but if i am worrying need or greed, now i will miss a dodge and die. Very very annoying here.
And I know it's hard to pass on loot you need - we had this argument when i used to run my guild - but it is simply so easy and fast to gear from chests now, and those people who don't need gear and are helping you, they deserve a shot at making some AD for their time, just like you do. It's the only way to be fair.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
To cut short on this topic and avoid ppl flaming each other, i ma show u the main reason why ppl do greed run. Lets say a CN party consist of 4 CW and 1 HR and they are doing class priority run. The chance for each individual to get GF, GWF, TR & SW item is 20% each member. But when HR item drop, HR has 100% chance while those 4 CW has 0%. When CW item dropped, each CW has 25% in getting the item while HR has 0%. Now we summarize the chance of getting item for each member. Each CW has 4x 20% + 25% + 0% while HR has 4x 20% +100% +0%. This conclude HR has better chance in getting more drop than CW. Where as Greed run give totaly equal chance for each member to get item. Yes we can fix a party of different class to even out the odds but the problem with match making instance like skirmish is u get random class match.
EDIT : also i m take this opportunity to request the comunity to run greed on weapon and armour only..There is no reason to roll greed when all of the member could roll need on item like enchantment, epic belt, ring and necklace. This is to prevent missclicking or cheating. IF all agree, could some1 post an official thread to clarify this and ask the admin to sticky it. So there wont be chaos happen here and there. Thanks.
The bad thing here is, that the devs made the system with Need/Greed/Pass and it's common sense, that when you're in a random group(PUG), it's normal to use that system and not an "user made" one and for all ppl that want to do "greed runs", to shout that in LFG/Zone, so everyone that joins that group is familiar with the the rules.
ATM it seem like some ppl are trying to force the other way around - make que matches with user made rules, that should be clear to all, but they're missing the fact, that there are new members every day, so there will be always ppl who use the que system the devs gave them to enter dungeons and then use the Need/Greed/Pass system as well.
Didn't you get a higher chance for your class anyway, thought I read that a while ago. Though if they increased based on gear then people could just swap gear on the roll to get the odds in their favour.
However most people will not have a problem if you ask before you need as its an upgrade for you and you will wear it. You just need to ask and wait for a response, if they have a problem they will say something and you should greed it and hope you win. Perhaps its only 1 person who has a problem and whoever else wins may just trade it to you if they win, everyone needs diamonds so greed is the most fair. As people have mentioned some class items are worth more then others - like SW gear is worth more usually. Its not been out as long as TR / DC / GF / GWF gear and is in most demand as the class is the newest. So why would it be fair if we let SW's keep all the loot and sell them for 1m+ diamonds each if we "accept" some warlock needing it just to sell?
Eveyrone is farming AD by playing dungeons. All boe items can be sold for ad, end of story. I get that you feel like u accomplished smthin by rollin the last set piece of an epic item from a drop but that is just your first impression of the game, clearly you are not playing for long. When u accomplish your task of getting your first full T2 set you should know that u have JUST started this game. After a while u will understand that throwing away half a million ad to feel "accomplished" was a fluke.
If u want the armor piece its for free in the chest waiting for you, with the added option of picking whichever u miss. I am in this game from beta, more than one year, have only one main character and i am still enjoying this game, farming dungeons for AD is part of the fun. Grinding on a MMO is part of the fun. If u burn out for a few days its part of the fun. I have made millions upon millions for over a year and i still havent got a single R10 and have only one Legendary Arti. Normal progression in this game take A LONG TIME...its timeless entertainment...
Personally I don't mind people needing on an item if they are indeed going to use it as it is in upgrade etc, as this is a large part of why people run dungeons to help them gear for tougher places etc. So I say if someone asks if they can have the item and we see that they do actually need it then I wouldnt say "no you can't" cos it would benefit them a lot more than the rest of us.
As other have said the chests your loot - you get that 100% of the time. All the other loot is everyones loot, which is why it is greeded so everyone has a chance at it. Yes it may take a few times to get it. But look at it this way : you can obviously do the dungeon, so you don't actually need that item anyway. Just have some patience, and you will get what you want.
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
^^^This is exactly how things work.
The only reason well geared players are willing to run dungeons is for profit. So, be thankfully you are being carried by more experienced and better geared players and that you'll eventually be able to get you gear from the chest. The other option would be running dungeons with fresh and bad geared people that (most likely) wouldn't be able to complete them.
The drops in the dungeon itself are worthless, people only join the group to get what the last boss drops, which is AD. Everyone needs AD.
Whenever I'm the leader of a group, an expensive item drops and someone uses Need I kick him with no mercy. You don't like it? Don't come in my groups then, because whenever I pug I make it clear in the /lfg: "Greed run".
I had the same question when i started this game , but , once you have all your gear and want to make some AD , let us know if you'll not do the same "greed mentality "
wich i agree with a 100% ; enless im with guildies and want to gear up someone , and even in this case , the final chest is what they are supposed to count on , not the drop !
If this is how your guild is... then frankly your guild is awful and you should go shopping for a better one. Cloaks run DDs with each other many times knowing that one or more players is looking for a specific bit of gear. If that gear drops, we give it to that player who needs it regardless of who ends up with it. The higher geared members do it not out of a desire to profit by the DD run but to help guild mates. Simple as that.
Our rules are:
1: Need if you feel like it on anything other than boss gear loot drops. That means all the trash loot, enchants, profession stuff, marks, shards, etc.
2: Greed on all boss gear drops no matter what. If it turns out the drop is actually needed for use by someone, the team generally gives that item over to the one who needs it. See... we, as a guild, communicate well like that
Any individual party is free to work out it's own terms for any given run. CN runs tend to be NEED everything except Draco gear drop (including other boss loot, since it's always a ring or belt that everyone can NEED on anyway).
I, personally, LOVE the idea of making ALL items acquired by NEED bound to character. I love that idea and feel like Cryptic should implement that ASAP - it's a fabulous idea and would but an end to this debate once and for all which has been going on for years (it's the same in other cryptic games too).
EDIT
If you PUG... all bets are off. Don't pug if you actually expect to get any gear from the rolls. It's really as simple as that -- pugs only for getting seals and chest loot, all else is pure luck. If you cry over not getting something in a pug, IMO, it's your own fault for pugging. It's like compaining about Zone chat being bereft of all value.. of course it is... Don't use it. I haven't used zone in... months. Same with pugs. Just Say No.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Sadly, this would not end the problem. People would rather need with a 100% chance of getting 6-10k ad worth of salvage than let the die roll and have only a 20% chance of getting a 200k boe item.
Murphster - SS CW | Jennsen Rahl - MoF CW
Taarna - GWF
Eowyn - Protector OP | Leela - Devoted OP
Mara Jade - TR
Leeloo - Tempt SW | Kahlan Amnell - Fury SW | Galadriel - Damnation SW
Sturm Nightblade - GF
All that matters is you find a group that agrees on the loot rules.
Just make sure everyone knows you want a need run.
I want greed on epic gear at least.
Guildies or friends are different, but I dont know you.
I want my fair share of the booty or won't do my share of the lifting.
If you really need some drop, greed and ask if you can get it.
If not expensive most often a trade can be made.
You want need runs? Fine, go find people who want the same.
Probably you won't find manny people. If you find people dungeons
it will be mostly undergeared, but more important, inexperienced players.
It will take you multiple the time it would require to gear on greed runs.
But if that's what you want who am I to stop you?
I have to say, I never liked this " Greed " thing either and in playing NWO for a little while now I thought I had it figured out but it is a real cluster F@*# if you ask me. When I first started playing I was green ( no pun intended ) to the way of looting, or so I thought. However it seemed to me that if you were in a P.U.G. the consensus was " Greens " were open, " Blues " everyone needed, and Purples were " Greed" rolls. However that system went out the door with the good sense it would seem, now it is every person for them selves.
To be honest I have been in many pugs and I stuck to this philosophy, but sadly, the looting in this game now is just as cut throat as everything else. I have done some greed runs but only because I was extremely bored and quite frankly I find the looting system very suspect anyways, ever sense I started playing this game I never felt that the looting was fair in pugs, I always had the sense that somehow I was getting shafted just because it always seemed to me that the Leader and 1 or 2 others always seemed to get everything, it just never felt like I and or others in the pugs got a fair shake at the loot, almost like a person(s) were running a side app that allowed them to get better rolls then everyone else. Just a feeling I know but a feeling none the less.
And the Sot and LOL runs are no different, people need on everything when they can regardless of item color, especially the purples now.
As to the same mentality to be present in " GUILD " runs, that is absolutely ridicules and if I were in a guild and this behavior was present I would leave no questions asked, there is no way on Gods green earth that I would run with " GUILDIES " and see someone get any item that I would need for my character just because they may say greed boss loot or whatever. Why the heck would I want to go on a epic or norm run and pass up loot that my toon needed, and a true guild member should not even think of basically stealing a needed item from someone, especially a " GUILDIE "
If the DEVS feel like this loot system needs an over-haul, I would ask that you take a look at the DDO looting system, that is a great, if not the best game looting system anyone could use. For those who are not familiar with DDO looting, everyone gets their fair share, and the chest loot is the same, however one nice feature in DDO Chest loot, it has a drop down menu with every party members name, so if one feels inclined they could actually, switch loot items, in the event that I get something you needed or someone got something I need. Or maybe someone saved your butt earlier in the quest and you just feel like giving them something just as a thanks for not leaving them behind, while everyone else in NWO was waiting at the door to next area, ready to vote kick your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out.
Nope, NWO Devs you have to get rid of this system and get a fair and impartial one where everyone gets their fair share, and even though I am not in a Guild, I would say to those that are experiencing this same behavior from so called " GUILDIES "get out because that is now way to be treated in a family.
All this type of behavior needs a closer examination that's for sure, because if it isn't one thing that is ruining the sense of community in this game it's another, I think it's time for the Devs and the better GUILDS to put their foot down and start speaking out against these actions, it's not right.
Cheers, W.W.
" May The Wind be Always At Your Back "
Need being rolled for you only on an item that does not appear in your collection.
If you sell or salvage obviously you didnt need it
All other rolls auto greed, there is no limit to the ammount you can hold via greed this way so just sell all the junk you aquire after runs.
It would work very well i think and stop all the hastle re Need/Greed and all the "issues" it causes, then we can all just get on with killing ingame stuff
That's bs tbh. As someone who took so long to get his gear when loot was actually worth something I'm going to highly disagree with that statement. In order to make enough you need to abuse the fact that many toons can use leadership. Though I do have a lot of tools and investments. Right now I say that you make less than enough unless you abuse passive AD generation. Such as me working on 28 leadership toons from my initial 18. Not sure if I'll finish it though.
Then you get people playing the new class, rolling need on it, and finding out it's worth more on the ah than it's actually worth, repeat and on average make more than every other class. You can easily feign actually needing an item. It's much better to actually earn it form the chest and allow everyone a fair share of the loot.
If you're running dungeons for the 'challenge' you should be playing a game that doesn't completely ruin that challenge.
When you need an item you're basically saying "my character's progression is more important than yours", and that's very rude. If it's a run between friends or the members of the same guild, fair enough, they probably care enough about you to let you roll and equip a 1M item. With other groups, the only fair rule is sharing equal chances at getting the "character progression" magics, ie ADs.
Keep in mind that the chance at getting a T2 item in a chest are 10% or so for the 8300 GS dungeons. Which means that you'll get your stuff eventually like everyone else. That's quite a high drop rate in comparison with the nightmare the tyranny of dragon content is.
Frankly, no one "needs" anything. They want stuff. I form a lot of groups for eLOL runs (for someone reason, no one wants my HR in their group, all GF's, GWF's and CW's, so I form them myself). I always tell people greed the epics, need the rest. Everyone seems fine with it. We all get a equal chance at the epics. Nothing needs to change.
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
It's very simple. Why should I run a dungeon with you, if all I'm doing it for is AD, if your going to "need" on things?
Everyone NEEDS AD. Any sellable items should be sold, get the BoP version from the chest.
LOL you won the "best comment of the day" award. There's a 0 AD reward attached to it.
This is mostly true just for level 60's. As when leveling, everyone needs their better gear to progress, since you have no sets to worry about.
Greed only runs always have exceptions to made by just saying so, if you said in chat 'Hey, I need this one for the set'.
Even if you are still in blue gear, just randomly taking an item that would fit your character is frowned upon. You should have a goal gear to strive towards, because ..if you suddenly get your set item you really need - the gear you 'needed' before will be salavaged for AD.
Agree-- that said, the proper way is to work with your guild mates rather than compete against them. The way to do that is to ensure everyone is operating under the same agreed upon rules. A properly functioning guild team can greed on loot then hand over a truely needed item just as easily. More to the point, a properly functioning guild team will have talked over the needs of the team beforehand and established that should X item drop, Y player will NEED it and everyone else will PASS (or GREED... same either way). The NEED/GREED system is simply extraneous UI for a good guild, since members will work to ensure their mates have what they need despite the UI foolishness one way or the other.
A person who is not in a guild that works this way is either themselves not interested in helping guild mates gear up or isn't in a very good guild (IMO). Might be it's expected members will already have what they need, or will otherwise get it on their own, or it might be the members are just all like what I just mentioned. If you are in a guild like that, and don't like it -- that's your own fault. Find another guild, there's no shortage of them. Many guilds are awesome and work hard to help each other.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
It's a small guild. We know each other and generally know what kind of equipment everyone has. Some of us, myself included, would not choose to equip an unbound set item, but others have no such qualms, and I view that as a personal decision.
This is slightly more complex than simply hitting shift+2 on everything that pops on your screen, so I can actually sympathize with people who want to greed all since that's just easier. Using different rolls depending on what the item is means you actually have to think about it, which isn't ideal under fighting conditions.
As to the mindset of carrying someone through the dungeon so they can loot the chest at the end... sure, sometimes that's what we're doing. But I don't expect to be compensated for it. I also haven't run every dungeon 500 times, so I dunno.
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