berylgreenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 66
edited October 2014
I do not like the attitude that it is okay to kick someone for Needing an item, especially if it IS for their class. There are many players in Neverwinter who do not read these forums, and are used to other MMOs. The actual premise of Need before Greed: “Need rolls have more priority over Greed rolls. You typically click this if it’s a gear upgrade for you. This is usually used in five man dungeons.” All MMORPGs are about gearing your character. “Greed” runs are counter-intuitive. Not every player has thousands of AD in which to buy gear from the AH. Then again, some of the T1 stuff goes for a few hundred AD. And you really need that 325 AD?? Pfft!
Way to make newer players feel welcome.
I do understand that some will abuse the system. Sadly, not everyone is as scrupulous as you. Just as in other MMOs, a player should not be able to Need an item, unless they can use it. And just as in other MMOs, the item should become Bound.
And as someone else stated: after a few Epic dungeon chests, you will be fairly well geared, and then will not care if it is a Greed run.
(I just wish that players would stop picking up the green items in Epic dungeons, gah! I do not need a page-full of those results, while I am trying to heal the next fight.)
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berylgreenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 66
What's discouraging to me is that players can't be expected to read party chat.
Not all players read English. Some players have Social turned off, because a wall of chat is overwhelming. And some just do not understand "Greed Run" yet.
I do understand that some will abuse the system. Sadly, not everyone is as scrupulous as you. Just as in other MMOs, a player should not be able to Need an item, unless they can use it. And just as in other MMOs, the item should become Bound.
Now you are making 2 arguments. Those who kick players on a need run just so they can get the loot is not acceptable.
However, greed runs SHOULD be specified at the beginning of the run and should have the agreement of all 5 members otherwise, the group either disbands or the greed rules are not invoked.
Please refrain from muddying up the conversation by combining these two separate events.
Not all players read English. Some players have Social turned off, because a wall of chat is overwhelming. And some just do not understand "Greed Run" yet.
Correct which is why there is voice comm and people should get the approval of everyone in the party.
Otherwise, you are making an appeal to ignorance and are going down a shaky path. What if a player decides to AFK at the starting campfire out of ignorance?
What's discouraging to me is that players can't be expected to read party chat.
LOL, can you read, I'll spell it out for ya... a: not all players speak English b: its not always stated before people get kicked c: not all people notice the chat. I know that if i'm in the groove playing listing to music and a friend msg me i might miss it cuz i'm not constantly monitoring everything said in chat, and i'll assume theirs a % of people that are similar. Stating that everyone should monitor the chat at all times is ludicrous, and just not very likely, but what ever. I guess thats your opinion and opinions are like arseholes everyone has one and they all stink!
I do not like the attitude that it is okay to kick someone for Needing an item, especially if it IS for their class. There are many players in Neverwinter who do not read these forums, and are used to other MMOs. The actual premise of Need before Greed: “Need rolls have more priority over Greed rolls. You typically click this if it’s a gear upgrade for you. This is usually used in five man dungeons.” All MMORPGs are about gearing your character. “Greed” runs are counter-intuitive. Not every player has thousands of AD in which to buy gear from the AH. Then again, some of the T1 stuff goes for a few hundred AD. And you really need that 325 AD?? Pfft!
Way to make newer players feel welcome.
I do understand that some will abuse the system. Sadly, not everyone is as scrupulous as you. Just as in other MMOs, a player should not be able to Need an item, unless they can use it. And just as in other MMOs, the item should become Bound.
And as someone else stated: after a few Epic dungeon chests, you will be fairly well geared, and then will not care if it is a Greed run.
(I just wish that players would stop picking up the green items in Epic dungeons, gah! I do not need a page-full of those results, while I am trying to heal the next fight.)
+1, ray is just so blinded by his own thoughts he doesn't have the capability of thinking form another perspective.
I see you love repeating beryl's false premise. Both of you are making 2 arguments. If it is not stated, then it is not acceptable to kick the person for needing. If they can't understand english, then they probably wouldn't be responding in agreement to a greed run.
Otherwise, players need to be held accountable for reading party chat. There is nothing else to say. Appeal to ignorance can only get you so far.
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berylgreenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 66
edited October 2014
When I play, I make allowances. Allowances for language barriers, allowances for age and comprehension. And not every group states rules at the beginning, most PUGs do not. Sometimes you have to ask.
But yes, it is best to know the rules at the beginning of a run.
That actually is stupid. By the time you can see an item in a Round Robin setup, the game has decided that item belongs to you, whether you wanted it or not, whether you pick it up or not. Drops you see are all for you.
The whole team was crying at the leader the whole time about how unfair round robin was and trying not to loot things near the end. I, being the newb that i was (this was maybe my 2nd or 3rd time in GG dungeon) kept my mouth shut to not show my ignorance of wtf they were talking about at the time. But from what you are saying I wasnt the only one in the group that didn't understand it. Anyways that one experience soured me on round robin and formed my opinion of it long ago when i was still new and fresh to the game, so I have no experience with it after that.
If it only drops for one member of the group and they don't pick it up does it still count as their drop?
Does it show in loot rolls when someone gets an item? May have to go experiment now...
Still doesn't give a 20% chance at drops for all teammates so greed is still the best choice.
If loot setting of "Random on all drops" was instituted it would be perfect.
Can't believe that this thread is still going, I kinda feel like it should have been locked a while ago, it's turned into a "My method of looting is better than yours, so that means your a ****" **nudges mods**
Lol indeed!
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
If it only drops for one member of the group and they don't pick it up does it still count as their drop?
Does it show in loot rolls when someone gets an item? May have to go experiment now...
Still doesn't give a 20% chance at drops for all teammates so greed is still the best choice.
If loot setting of "Random on all drops" was instituted it would be perfect.
I haven't exactly tracked if loot is actually assigned on an alternating basis or just randomly since I use this loot mode while duo questing so that we don't have to be bothered with rolls at all or ever think about loot unless somebody's bag gets full. Testing would require us to actually pay attention to the order in which we get trash drops... ugh.
When im running with close friends, or guild mates, i dont mind if they "Need" on any item they need for an upgrade, so if they end up pulling a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> move and end up selling the item on the AH, i know i wont trust them again.
The one thing alot of us are missing on here is that if players have the chance and oppurtunity to screw other players up and steal the loots, they will do it, just give them that chance and 9/10 they will screw up the whole party for their own benefit.
A perfect example is the new Shores of tuern skirmish, where party leader can kick everyone else and steal those loots, have done that skirmish like 7 times where the book drops, and i have been kicked out 7 times, and i know im not the only one out there who this has happened to. ( do you know why that happened? it because i trusted a random player to not abuse the system.
I have no problem with the Need system, but there is no gurantee that the player who needs on the item is going to use it, and i would not trust them to use the system legitimatly, forgive me but i have been screwed up too many time to still put faith on players, especially with a system like Need, that would be a piece of cake to abuse
For those claiming that we are basically forcing others to "Greed" when they "Need" the items, i would like you all to know that you have no idea what you are talking about, there is a reason 98% of the community prefers the "Greed" system, say whatever you want but "MAJORITY CARRIES THE VOTE" yeah i just use all caps on that so you can see it clearly.
Not to mainton that we are not "FORCING" anyone to do "Greed Runs", Whenever i form a party i always tell everyone it a Greed run, and if they dont agree they can get the hell out of my party and find another one.
And when i join by random queuing , i always ask right at the begining what the loot rules are going to be, if they say "Need" i immdiatly say my good by and leave, and if they say Greed then i will stay.
Lastly i would like to clear up that i have never kicked anyone out of any dungeon because they need on an item if we didnt didnt discuss the loot rules, and trust me it has happened alot, sometimes it actually funny when that happens.
For example 3 days ago i joined Tos by random queue, and when i got in, one of the players (CW) asked us "Need" or Greed" but shockingly no one answered, i wanted to say "Greed" but i want to have some fun over the other players ignorance, so we got to the first boss, and when she died the CW needed on the item, and the GF in our team got mad and started vote, but then we all voted no and tell him that we didnt discuss loot rules, so we cant kick him for needing, the GF got mad because we didnt kick the CW and he left, and we ended up finishing the run without him.
So i dont just kick players, but if we agreed on a "Greed" and you end up "Need" i will defintly start the vote to kick you out, the reason for this is because if you are not comfortable with a greed run, you should leave the moment you we told you it was a Greed run, and me being me i always let the party know in the begining.
Its discuss prior to run or face RNG of the group.
In order for it to become a true greed system theyd need to remove the need option. Which is cryptics decision.
Have fun while running and dont worry about the AD grind that truely exists.
If someone ninjas, someone ninjas there is nothing as a community we can do, because of the no name/shame policy.
I don't see anything more in the way of productive discussion coming from this thread, rather, it's devolved into a circular argument. So, to prevent the thread from going any further downhill, I'm going to shut it down.
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Comments
Way to make newer players feel welcome.
I do understand that some will abuse the system. Sadly, not everyone is as scrupulous as you. Just as in other MMOs, a player should not be able to Need an item, unless they can use it. And just as in other MMOs, the item should become Bound.
And as someone else stated: after a few Epic dungeon chests, you will be fairly well geared, and then will not care if it is a Greed run.
(I just wish that players would stop picking up the green items in Epic dungeons, gah! I do not need a page-full of those results, while I am trying to heal the next fight.)
Now you are making 2 arguments. Those who kick players on a need run just so they can get the loot is not acceptable.
However, greed runs SHOULD be specified at the beginning of the run and should have the agreement of all 5 members otherwise, the group either disbands or the greed rules are not invoked.
Please refrain from muddying up the conversation by combining these two separate events.
Correct which is why there is voice comm and people should get the approval of everyone in the party.
Otherwise, you are making an appeal to ignorance and are going down a shaky path. What if a player decides to AFK at the starting campfire out of ignorance?
LOL, can you read, I'll spell it out for ya... a: not all players speak English b: its not always stated before people get kicked c: not all people notice the chat. I know that if i'm in the groove playing listing to music and a friend msg me i might miss it cuz i'm not constantly monitoring everything said in chat, and i'll assume theirs a % of people that are similar. Stating that everyone should monitor the chat at all times is ludicrous, and just not very likely, but what ever. I guess thats your opinion and opinions are like arseholes everyone has one and they all stink!
+1, ray is just so blinded by his own thoughts he doesn't have the capability of thinking form another perspective.
If there is, I wouldn't mind buying them all out!
The cheaper stuff is less of an issue, the armour pieces that can be hundreds of thousands of AD is.
I see you love repeating beryl's false premise. Both of you are making 2 arguments. If it is not stated, then it is not acceptable to kick the person for needing. If they can't understand english, then they probably wouldn't be responding in agreement to a greed run.
Otherwise, players need to be held accountable for reading party chat. There is nothing else to say. Appeal to ignorance can only get you so far.
But yes, it is best to know the rules at the beginning of a run.
The whole team was crying at the leader the whole time about how unfair round robin was and trying not to loot things near the end. I, being the newb that i was (this was maybe my 2nd or 3rd time in GG dungeon) kept my mouth shut to not show my ignorance of wtf they were talking about at the time. But from what you are saying I wasnt the only one in the group that didn't understand it. Anyways that one experience soured me on round robin and formed my opinion of it long ago when i was still new and fresh to the game, so I have no experience with it after that.
If it only drops for one member of the group and they don't pick it up does it still count as their drop?
Does it show in loot rolls when someone gets an item? May have to go experiment now...
Still doesn't give a 20% chance at drops for all teammates so greed is still the best choice.
If loot setting of "Random on all drops" was instituted it would be perfect.
Lol indeed!
I haven't exactly tracked if loot is actually assigned on an alternating basis or just randomly since I use this loot mode while duo questing so that we don't have to be bothered with rolls at all or ever think about loot unless somebody's bag gets full. Testing would require us to actually pay attention to the order in which we get trash drops... ugh.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
When im running with close friends, or guild mates, i dont mind if they "Need" on any item they need for an upgrade, so if they end up pulling a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> move and end up selling the item on the AH, i know i wont trust them again.
The one thing alot of us are missing on here is that if players have the chance and oppurtunity to screw other players up and steal the loots, they will do it, just give them that chance and 9/10 they will screw up the whole party for their own benefit.
A perfect example is the new Shores of tuern skirmish, where party leader can kick everyone else and steal those loots, have done that skirmish like 7 times where the book drops, and i have been kicked out 7 times, and i know im not the only one out there who this has happened to. ( do you know why that happened? it because i trusted a random player to not abuse the system.
I have no problem with the Need system, but there is no gurantee that the player who needs on the item is going to use it, and i would not trust them to use the system legitimatly, forgive me but i have been screwed up too many time to still put faith on players, especially with a system like Need, that would be a piece of cake to abuse
For those claiming that we are basically forcing others to "Greed" when they "Need" the items, i would like you all to know that you have no idea what you are talking about, there is a reason 98% of the community prefers the "Greed" system, say whatever you want but "MAJORITY CARRIES THE VOTE" yeah i just use all caps on that so you can see it clearly.
Not to mainton that we are not "FORCING" anyone to do "Greed Runs", Whenever i form a party i always tell everyone it a Greed run, and if they dont agree they can get the hell out of my party and find another one.
And when i join by random queuing , i always ask right at the begining what the loot rules are going to be, if they say "Need" i immdiatly say my good by and leave, and if they say Greed then i will stay.
Lastly i would like to clear up that i have never kicked anyone out of any dungeon because they need on an item if we didnt didnt discuss the loot rules, and trust me it has happened alot, sometimes it actually funny when that happens.
For example 3 days ago i joined Tos by random queue, and when i got in, one of the players (CW) asked us "Need" or Greed" but shockingly no one answered, i wanted to say "Greed" but i want to have some fun over the other players ignorance, so we got to the first boss, and when she died the CW needed on the item, and the GF in our team got mad and started vote, but then we all voted no and tell him that we didnt discuss loot rules, so we cant kick him for needing, the GF got mad because we didnt kick the CW and he left, and we ended up finishing the run without him.
So i dont just kick players, but if we agreed on a "Greed" and you end up "Need" i will defintly start the vote to kick you out, the reason for this is because if you are not comfortable with a greed run, you should leave the moment you we told you it was a Greed run, and me being me i always let the party know in the begining.
Its discuss prior to run or face RNG of the group.
In order for it to become a true greed system theyd need to remove the need option. Which is cryptics decision.
Have fun while running and dont worry about the AD grind that truely exists.
If someone ninjas, someone ninjas there is nothing as a community we can do, because of the no name/shame policy.
/thread
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Do not go gentle into that good night.
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Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com