I already do without any 10M AD (i am not a P2W player like others) or a 20k GS CW... in fact, my, now, 13k CW, is able to melt some high geared GWF-players (around 15/16ks) with ease: Entantgling + Icy + Ray of Death + Storm spell + Shield is my rotation (no glyphs, do not worry)1. BTW, let me tell you 2 tips vs GWF-class: STOP DODGING SURE STRIKE and AVOID GWF-chars when they are on unstoppable, that will helps you a lot vs GWF-players. , i guarantee it
EDIT:
1: My enchant is Plaguefire (normal).
Sorry, i am not the one who is asking for Icy Rays on tab pierce CC inmunity, allowing the CW bypass for free the defenses from any class, perma locking them until dead... even considering that "ss" would be nerfed previously (you need to nerf Orb of impossition too, btw, this way, the perma lock will be more "strict"). So, pls, next time you call some one "imbecile", do not do it when you are just looking at a mirror. Anyway, thank you for confirming that you do not know how to play PvP on this game. Is really funny see how players like you accuse players like me to "bring umbalance to the game".
Dude, we're talking about maximum potential here. I am playing since the first day of Neverwinter. And GWF is my 2nd class. I know how to beat GWFs and I beat almost all of them. It's only the ones where it comes to maximum potential, that also play best-in-slot CW and GWF like I do since the first day of Neverwinter, that I am testing everything on preview with, that cannot be beaten by CWs. I gave you a name. Contact him. I will be surprised if he'll have to use Unstoppable against you even once.
I already do without any 10M AD (i am not a P2W player like others) or a 20k GS CW... in fact, my, now, 13k CW, is able to melt some high geared GWF-players (around 15/16ks) with ease: Entantgling + Icy + Ray of Death + Storm spell + Shield is my rotation (no glyphs, do not worry)1. BTW, let me tell you 2 tips vs GWF-class: STOP DODGING SURE STRIKE and AVOID GWF-chars when they are on unstoppable, that will helps you a lot vs GWF-players. , i guarantee it
EDIT:
1: My enchant is Plaguefire (normal).
Sorry, i am not the one who is asking for Icy Rays on tab pierce CC inmunity, allowing the CW bypass for free the defenses from any class, perma locking them until dead... even considering that "ss" would be nerfed previously (you need to nerf Orb of impossition too, btw, this way, the perma lock will be more "strict"). So, pls, next time you call some one "imbecile", do not do it when you are just looking at a mirror. Anyway, thank you for confirming that you do not know how to play PvP on this game. Is really funny see how players like you accuse players like me to "bring umbalance to the game".
Have you ever tested anything? Do you know what ACT is? I have never seen you on preview. What you say is nonsense. A skilled GWF does not need Unstoppable to beat a CW. With the current god mode builds, Unstoppable is just a 'backup skill' in case you are too lazy to dodge everything with your Sprint - or if you are just bad.
ROFL at this. So, is more dangerous letting a GWF hit anyone with sure strike to get stacks on Destroyer Purpose (stacks on unstop) OR Focused Destroyer (less than 25% to proc, tested and confirmed) than avoiding Takedown/flourish/frontline surge. Ok, thank you for your advice.
You do understand how Severe Reaction works right? And how you can Chain your dodges through the GWF, And for the purposes of Severe Reaction being calculated you benefit as being hit (And having stamina Restored) whilst the GWF doesn't get the stacks built up.)
Maybe you should look at actual class mechanics before you attempt to get into an arguement with two of the longest playing PvP Cws about how to counter a certain class.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Yes, i know how it works, yet, i do not get your point about why is more factible/useful to use teleport to dodge sure strike than use it to dodge takedown... also, not all GWF-players out there use PF as weapon enchant...
You do realise that you can chain dodge through them pretty much all the time if you are smart with your timing. Doing this will mean you never get hit with Take down. And on the very odd chance that you do, They have no stacks. I'm not saying to dodge sure strike over takedown. I am saying that you can benefit from dodging both at the right time.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
What makes you think that? GWF is a DPS class. Why is the Sentinel much tankier than the GF? I'm not sure what build you are running, but try to kill Lord Tyrion as a CW or HR. You will spend way more time on that task than on killing a GF. And I'm talking 20x or more of the time here.
Why are HRs able to heal up 3 - 4x as fast as DCs? Are they clerics? No.
The decision has to be made based on what is fun for the player. No one choosing a class other than the DC wants to play a "support class".
This is what paragon paths are for.
A CW should have a choice: control or damage. Right now, he has both. Same as the HR. An HR dealing enough damage to burst someone down in one rotation should only be able to heal/control to a neglectable minimum. A CW dealing enough damage to burst someone down in one rotation should only be able to control/deal AoE damage to a neglectable minimum.
Choice for the CW should be: single target burst or control or AoE DPS.
Choice for the HR should be: ranged DPS or melee burst or healing/team buffs. I do not play an HR actively, so what I'm saying might not be the best for HR players.
Btw, in DnD the mage is the main damage class ("Wizard"). And same as the HR that can be both "Hunter" and "Ranger", or the GF that can be "Guardian" and "Fighter", the CW should be able to choose between "Controller" and "Wizard" (or be both to a certain extent, sacrificing some potential on both sides).
Well said brother. Mel is absolutely correct.
HAMSTER, level 60 GF, "Bloodthirsty" since Mod 2 Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
As long as it comes to equally geared and skilled players, sadly, I have to agree with @mugiwarac. CWs are back to "punching bags". Except now that the skillful play is gone with Renegade destroyed, Ray of Enfeeblement cooldown and damage nerf and Shard damage nerf, there is no way to compensate it with high skill. I don't agree with Robert's suggestion to make Assailant ignore DR again. It would only introduce more imbalances for the future and not solve anything.
My suggestion:
- Double the damage on Ray of Enfeeblement and restore the old cooldown + effect.
- Triple the damage on Shard of Endless Avalanche.
- Make Icy Rays on Spell Mastery ignore all CC immunities.
- Roll the Renegade path back to Module 3.
- After you've done all that, roll Storm Spell back to Module 3.
And there you go. Fixed. Perfect balance. No more sick imbalances. Skillful play would be rewarded, bad play would be punished. Team and solo play would be possible: Shard on TAB for team play with prones, Icy Rays on TAB for solo play. Icy Rays is the best skill to make ignore all CC immunities since it doesn't stun or interrupt the target. No more skillless procs from At-Will + DoT.
I'm pretty sure everyone, no matter which class they main, will like this concept for CWs, because it represents perfect balance where it's only about skill.
But I'm sure whatever buff is coming up for CWs will make us all go WTF and be something no one asked for.
I am also in full agreement w/ bloodletter24 and mugiwarac. I just finished running the drake dungeon w/ My CW for the second time today. I died at least THREE times before I completed it. My CW kept running out of dodge and either getting one shotted by the boss or burned down by the adds, which I was unable to kill fast enough due to the damage nerfs to Shards of Avalanche and Conduit of Ice. Finally tanked a bunch of potions and quite frankly got a little lucky.
CW's are total punching bags now in PvP. In fact, w/ the current TR setup, it's even worse than it used to be. I'm running a 14.2 K CW w/ about 23k Hps. Two days ago I was One shotted THREE TIMES in one match by a TR. I said to myself, man, this guy is HAMSTER. Then I opened the player's screen and did an inspect on his TR. Imagine my shock and DISGUST when I discovered that this guy was running a 11.5 K (or so) TR.
GS should mean something. If I have almost 3k more pts than another toon, I should be the one doing the killing, not the other way around. That this is NOT true reflects the many weaknesses of CW's that need fixing.
CW's are way underdamaged, way underdefended, and frankly are in no way, shape or form controllers. I've posted fixes on the forums before, and so far as I've seen, they've been totally ignored. A quick list is:
1) CW's are a ranged class. They are blasters. Either they NEED a MUCH longer TP and more of it, and some sort of REAL DURABLE shield, or there needs to be alteration to GWF and GF in regards jumping attacks and how CC affects them. W/o these changes CW's will continue to be punching bags for these melee classes.
2) See Invisible. CW's are wizards and allegedly controllers. So "Mage Sight" or "See Invisible" as a PERMANAENT class feature not only makes sense, but gives CW's a chance against TR's. I recommend a 20 Ft range or so, so the evil TR can at least get close before Ooops, they can see me now.
3) Totally get rid of any and all AOE nerfs. I mean, Really? Maybe all of you should go read some 2nd and 3rd Edition D&D books. Seriously. Pay attention to things like the DAMAGE in the spell descriptions. For a fireball in 3d edition you're talking 10 D6 across a 30 Ft Radius circle (if memory serves!) That's an AVERAGE damage of 35 points to EVERYTHING in the AoE, unless it makes a saving throw for 1/2 damage.
Compare that to a single sword swing from a ST 16 fighter. Assume a longsword. ONE 8 sided die. FOUR points "average" damage. YES, ST above 16 gets bonuses. I think it's six points for Max human ST of 18/00. So now we're up to TEN points average for a single attack on ONE enemy.
SO a fighter just killed one orc or goblin. The wizard barbecued 15 to 20 of them at the same time!
I realize that there has been some sort of "issue" w/ the AoE damage. I'm sorry most people either Can't do the math, or refuse to accept it's logic. If you're doing only 20% of the damage to 10 Mobs that a TR or a GWF are doing to a SINGLE Mob in the same time period, YES, you the CW are always going to way more damage in a dungeon than most everyone else.
Since the CW should be doing 50% or more for some AoE attacks, in order to make those AoE's viable, this is something that the melee types are JUST GOING TO HAVE TO LEARN TO SUCK UP. CW's are blasters. Live it, Learn it, Love it.
4) Optional IF 1 thru 3 are actually DONE. CW's NEED binding CC. They need feats or options in the Paragon Paths that will cancel OUT or negate GF's, GWF's, AND TR's CC immunities. I can hear the wailing now, but I feel little pity for any of these classes. As things sit, I CANNOT kill a GF OR GWF by myself, assuming parity of GS. Their defenses are too strong. I've had GWF's run straight for me and kill me, with me burning up my dodge and every attack that I could on them. And GF's and their leaping stun lock series got old about 6 months ago.
Higher GS? R I G H T..... LOL. And as I previously stated, TR's that are over 2K WEAKER than my CW are cleaning their knives on the robes of my cooling corpse. But BINDING, REAL CC would give a CW a real chance and more importantly, might just make GF's, GWF's and TR's wary of CW's. Hmmm. That would be refreshing.
Comments
Dude, we're talking about maximum potential here. I am playing since the first day of Neverwinter. And GWF is my 2nd class. I know how to beat GWFs and I beat almost all of them. It's only the ones where it comes to maximum potential, that also play best-in-slot CW and GWF like I do since the first day of Neverwinter, that I am testing everything on preview with, that cannot be beaten by CWs. I gave you a name. Contact him. I will be surprised if he'll have to use Unstoppable against you even once.
Have you ever tested anything? Do you know what ACT is? I have never seen you on preview. What you say is nonsense. A skilled GWF does not need Unstoppable to beat a CW. With the current god mode builds, Unstoppable is just a 'backup skill' in case you are too lazy to dodge everything with your Sprint - or if you are just bad.
- Brazil PvP Fraternité -
Rank 7
You do understand how Severe Reaction works right? And how you can Chain your dodges through the GWF, And for the purposes of Severe Reaction being calculated you benefit as being hit (And having stamina Restored) whilst the GWF doesn't get the stacks built up.)
Maybe you should look at actual class mechanics before you attempt to get into an arguement with two of the longest playing PvP Cws about how to counter a certain class.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
You do realise that you can chain dodge through them pretty much all the time if you are smart with your timing. Doing this will mean you never get hit with Take down. And on the very odd chance that you do, They have no stacks. I'm not saying to dodge sure strike over takedown. I am saying that you can benefit from dodging both at the right time.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Well said brother. Mel is absolutely correct.
Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR
Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
I am also in full agreement w/ bloodletter24 and mugiwarac. I just finished running the drake dungeon w/ My CW for the second time today. I died at least THREE times before I completed it. My CW kept running out of dodge and either getting one shotted by the boss or burned down by the adds, which I was unable to kill fast enough due to the damage nerfs to Shards of Avalanche and Conduit of Ice. Finally tanked a bunch of potions and quite frankly got a little lucky.
CW's are total punching bags now in PvP. In fact, w/ the current TR setup, it's even worse than it used to be. I'm running a 14.2 K CW w/ about 23k Hps. Two days ago I was One shotted THREE TIMES in one match by a TR. I said to myself, man, this guy is HAMSTER. Then I opened the player's screen and did an inspect on his TR. Imagine my shock and DISGUST when I discovered that this guy was running a 11.5 K (or so) TR.
GS should mean something. If I have almost 3k more pts than another toon, I should be the one doing the killing, not the other way around. That this is NOT true reflects the many weaknesses of CW's that need fixing.
CW's are way underdamaged, way underdefended, and frankly are in no way, shape or form controllers. I've posted fixes on the forums before, and so far as I've seen, they've been totally ignored. A quick list is:
1) CW's are a ranged class. They are blasters. Either they NEED a MUCH longer TP and more of it, and some sort of REAL DURABLE shield, or there needs to be alteration to GWF and GF in regards jumping attacks and how CC affects them. W/o these changes CW's will continue to be punching bags for these melee classes.
2) See Invisible. CW's are wizards and allegedly controllers. So "Mage Sight" or "See Invisible" as a PERMANAENT class feature not only makes sense, but gives CW's a chance against TR's. I recommend a 20 Ft range or so, so the evil TR can at least get close before Ooops, they can see me now.
3) Totally get rid of any and all AOE nerfs. I mean, Really? Maybe all of you should go read some 2nd and 3rd Edition D&D books. Seriously. Pay attention to things like the DAMAGE in the spell descriptions. For a fireball in 3d edition you're talking 10 D6 across a 30 Ft Radius circle (if memory serves!) That's an AVERAGE damage of 35 points to EVERYTHING in the AoE, unless it makes a saving throw for 1/2 damage.
Compare that to a single sword swing from a ST 16 fighter. Assume a longsword. ONE 8 sided die. FOUR points "average" damage. YES, ST above 16 gets bonuses. I think it's six points for Max human ST of 18/00. So now we're up to TEN points average for a single attack on ONE enemy.
SO a fighter just killed one orc or goblin. The wizard barbecued 15 to 20 of them at the same time!
I realize that there has been some sort of "issue" w/ the AoE damage. I'm sorry most people either Can't do the math, or refuse to accept it's logic. If you're doing only 20% of the damage to 10 Mobs that a TR or a GWF are doing to a SINGLE Mob in the same time period, YES, you the CW are always going to way more damage in a dungeon than most everyone else.
Since the CW should be doing 50% or more for some AoE attacks, in order to make those AoE's viable, this is something that the melee types are JUST GOING TO HAVE TO LEARN TO SUCK UP. CW's are blasters. Live it, Learn it, Love it.
4) Optional IF 1 thru 3 are actually DONE. CW's NEED binding CC. They need feats or options in the Paragon Paths that will cancel OUT or negate GF's, GWF's, AND TR's CC immunities. I can hear the wailing now, but I feel little pity for any of these classes. As things sit, I CANNOT kill a GF OR GWF by myself, assuming parity of GS. Their defenses are too strong. I've had GWF's run straight for me and kill me, with me burning up my dodge and every attack that I could on them. And GF's and their leaping stun lock series got old about 6 months ago.
Higher GS? R I G H T..... LOL. And as I previously stated, TR's that are over 2K WEAKER than my CW are cleaning their knives on the robes of my cooling corpse. But BINDING, REAL CC would give a CW a real chance and more importantly, might just make GF's, GWF's and TR's wary of CW's. Hmmm. That would be refreshing.
cheers
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com