No offense ayroux but you dont know enough about CWs to make decent balancing suggestions.
If you want to balance CW for pve, you need to firstly make freeze a root (if it doesnt break on damage). then make damage tree (like thaum) boost aoe damage skills, but remove/lower the control components (e.g. +30% shard but removes its prone) lower steal time damage back to normal but make a buff feat +50% damage for it and change the stun to a slow.
etc etc. so if you want control you spec for it, if you want to be a nuker you can but without any of the safety net from CC. Right now CWs can do both.
As for PvP the problem is mostly down to storm spell, but everyone knows that. I don't think theres anything wrong with assailing.
. Now the pvp people are getting a dose of the problem the developers have created. Storm spell far outstrips Assailing Force in that regard (Storm spell was 37% of 15 million in my ToS run in mod4 yesterday). That needs reverted back to the mod3 version were it does about 6-10% of a CW's damage (assuming you use CoI & Icy Terrain).
No.
Leave them the hell alone as they are.
Can you convince devs to buff shard and single target encounters to make up for the huge loss of DPS in PvP if you nerf SS and Assailant?
NO.
Because they already told us Shard is not coming back.
Deal with it. Skillful play from CWs is GONE. I did enjoy playing shard on mastery for 2 modules and I am happy that I had the opportunity. It won't come back, and read this topic, WE TRIED.
Also your observations for PvE are irrelevant and don't matter to be honest. People PvE in this game either because they are forced into it (farming, boons), or because they are new and know nothing better. PvE is easy, badly designed and dumb&repetitive. Mobs don't care, they die anyway.
Just got to love how all the 'top pvpers' have plenty to complain about when something isn't in their favor like the CW being good in pvp finally but none of the 'top pvpers' seem to have brought the issue of the broken token of free movement with it's 10s cooldown up in bug reports because that is in their favor .
14M damage in a single CN run with only storm spell is not what i call fixed.
in pvp i cant even stand for 3 sec in their glacial terrain without it draining my 35k hp
Can you share me your pretty good CW build plz because I get much less dmg from Storm Spell...
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
edited August 2014
Possible bug: I did some dungeon runs with a renegade build and I dont see phantasmal destruction activating, parsed 3 runs with act and I dont see it, maybe its bugged and doesnt trigger? Can anyone confirm this?
Feedback: After playing renegade few runs, it doesnt seem so bad, at least for high geared chars, but his capstone is not unique like other 2 paths and is a bit underpowered. Also, the feats are a bit unbalanced for spellstorm, second level is worthless and you must spend 5 more points to get the good ones than other paths. I suggest make level 2 feat more useful, and you can do this improving maelstrom of chaos. I suggest a change in maelstrom: Change it to something similar to Oppresive force but less dmging and with a random control effect: Prone, Stun, Daze, Freeze. We want a usefull paragon path dailly and the asociated feat usefull.
You can do that but HRs and SWs will still outdps you vastly!
they at least wont ccc lock everything to make dc,tanks useless
btw is it for u ok for cw to do over 12m+ per epic pk run how much they can do now? this is almost 2 times better then before mod 4 and point of mod 4 cw balance was to bring them more in line to other classes
Possible bug: I did some dungeon runs with a renegade build and I dont see phantasmal destruction activating, parsed 3 runs with act and I dont see it, maybe its bugged and doesnt trigger? Can anyone confirm this?
Feedback:I suggest make level 2 feat more useful, and you can do this improving maelstrom of chaos. I suggest a change in maelstrom: Change it to something similar to Oppresive force but less dmging and with a random control effect: Prone, Stun, Daze, Freeze. We want a usefull paragon path dailly and the asociated feat usefull.
This PLUS cancelling MoC really shouldn't consume 50% of Action Points. This is the only daily that cannot be re-cast after cancelling it with dodge. Most encounters (except Steal time) can also be cancelled with dodge and recast. Was not all this change to dodge mechanics suppose to help us? Maelstrom has to be modified to fit it. And for goodness sake, make this micro aoe range a bit bigger!
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
they at least wont ccc lock everything to make dc,tanks useless
btw is it for u ok for cw to do over 12m+ per epic pk run how much they can do now? this is almost 2 times better then before mod 4 and point of mod 4 cw balance was to bring them more in line to other classes
I'm a Cw from the start of beta,done many Pk runs post and pre Mod4 and never have i scored 12m+ damage even when i run it with 12k players,in which case i do most of the damage.If you run a cw as well show us some proof of your claims by posting a video of yourself doing such damage will you? Or record one of your PK runs with a cw and tell us his/her stats and Gs so we can know to which Cws are you referring. I have 16,2k Gs,with High Vizier, rank 7-8 enchants, a power score of 4500 and Greater Plague and would love to know your build.
This PLUS cancelling MoC really shouldn't consume 50% of Action Points. This is the only daily that cannot be re-cast after cancelling it with dodge. Most encounters (except Steal time) can also be cancelled with dodge and recast. Was not all this change to dodge mechanics suppose to help us? Maelstrom has to be modified to fit it. And for goodness sake, make this micro aoe range a bit bigger!
The problem with this is the fact that Maelstrom adds a HUGE survivability buff to us, as well as removing CC. With the way we currently are with Assailing and Storm Spell, having a Daily we can utilise for (1.5 seconds) to remove CC and add A bucketload of damage reduction, being able to effectively be up all the time (with correct animation cancelling) would be broken.
It's bad enough that I can already do it 3 times when I pop my DC artifact...
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
This is the problem. People really forget that not every CW is Thaumaturge. My Renegade has to suffer more restrictions, because we don't want Thaumaturgee to be any stronger? Devs were given feedback how to empower this crippled rene tree, all they did though was buffing all trees which made already powerful ones even more powerful. And further result of this should be preventing dailies from working as they should with new dodge mechanics? Great job, Devs.
Btw. there is a moment while casting MoC when your immunity ends and mob still attacks, and unless you dodge away, you gonna get 98% of your HP taken away. I was fighting the first golem in Ghost Stories ToD campaign quest. I was so sure I'm immune to damage I didn't dodge when this foul beast swung its sword. I was left with approx. 2% of my HP. I'd dodge normally, but this 50% AP loss... So there you go. It doesn't always work.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
0
reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This is the problem. People really forget that not every CW is Thaumaturge. My Renegade has to suffer more restrictions, because we don't want Thaumaturgee to be any stronger? Devs were given feedback how to empower this crippled rene tree, all they did though was buffing all trees which made already powerful ones even more powerful. And further result of this should be preventing dailies from working as they should with new dodge mechanics? Great job, Devs.
Btw. there is a moment while casting MoC when your immunity ends and mob still attacks, and unless you dodge away, you gonna get 98% of your HP taken away. I was fighting the first golem in Ghost Stories ToD campaign quest. I was so sure I'm immune to damage I didn't dodge when this foul beast swung it's sword. I was left with approx. 2% of my HP. I'd dodge normally, but this 50% AP loss... So there you go. It doesn't always work.
I agree with you here. Everyone talks about the "this and That" but not everyone has "this or that" and nor should people be obligated to having "this or that". I dont like using the same builds as other people, but balance between the trees should still apply regardless of what you choose, the only difference in it should be how things apply and the way you play.
The mechanic is flawed with the changes made,no matter what capstone or whatever was done. At the least there should be a feat somewhere that does something with this. Before alot of people was calling this daily garbage, without realizing the potential it had its only problem is that it didnt used to crit properly ( LIKE STORM PILLAR WHICH THEY STILL DIDNT FIX! HINT HINT)
they at least wont ccc lock everything to make dc,tanks useless
btw is it for u ok for cw to do over 12m+ per epic pk run how much they can do now? this is almost 2 times better then before mod 4 and point of mod 4 cw balance was to bring them more in line to other classes
DC is very not useless! A good debuff DC make runs 3-4 mins faster.
GF is not useless! New and improved GFs is making runs very smooth. They tank Draco like never even seen making our life pretty easy.
A GF with Into the fray/Knight valor + buff gear is awesome now!
Soon you will see "Lf GF Lostmouth/CN" a lot!
PK is short dungeon with small mobs dying only to look at them. Not very good for testing.
I see HRs doing pretty good dmg in CN now. So I guess these classes catched up and pretty usable now. Not to mention the new super dps class the SW.
0
seventhpillarMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
edited August 2014
FEEDBACK
Thaum tree is way off balance. Notice how the capstone has assailing and then a capstone comparable feat with the new reworked Elemental Empowerment. Compared to the capstone in Renegade, Elemental Empowerment is much better overall.
I would like to see this feats proc chance increased to 35%(as it was in preview initially) from 20% and its damage reduced by 50% from current levels. That way it'll feel and be more balanced and useful as an Aoe. Also the lightning effects are very nice (Aesthetics are important too you see) and with a 35% chance we'll be to seeing more of them,without unbalancing the class.
I would like to see this feats proc chance increased to 35%(as it was in preview initially) from 20% and its damage reduced by 50% from current levels. That way it'll feel and be more balanced and useful as an Aoe. Also the lightning effects are very nice (Aesthetics are important too you see) and with a 35% chance we'll be to seeing more of them,without unbalancing the class.
Im fine with this as long as it has an ICD.... Overall almost doubling proc chance and dropping damage by 50% doesnt really DO much, but if it did that PLUS an ICD of a few seconds... That would be alot more fair IMO.
Also, does it proc off GPF and things like that? Ive been told conflicting info....
Id also like to see A.F. Respect DR.... Its been said before in the past.... bypassing DR is never a good idea.
No ICD on another good feat. I liked spell storm as it was. Nobody asked for spell storm changes. And there already were worries that Devs might wish to "fix" SS by applying ICD on it, thus destroying another good feat. If SS was to be adjusted it should be reverted to the way it was - that means no ICD.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
0
charkanramonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 51Arc User
edited August 2014
Feedback - StormSpell
Adjust the "Spell Storm" to not activate in dots of feats and enchantments. And the "Eye of Storm" only affects at-wills.
0
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
Adjust the "Spell Storm" to not activate in dots of feats and enchantments. And the "Eye of Storm" only affects at-wills.
This is an example of BAD FEEDBACK, I hope you are not trolling and it is just ignorance of the CW class mechanics. Storm spell being activated by dots and enchats offers more versatility in builds. Storm spell just need to do less damage (I suggest 35%-40% less damage, same proc chance), activation chance is ok to make spells like Conduit of Ice usefull.
About the Eye of the storm affecting only at-wills..... DO YOU EVER PLAYED A CW?
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited August 2014
I agree, just dial down the damage until it's in a good place.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
0
charkanramonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 51Arc User
edited August 2014
"Eye of the storm" eliminates the need to have charisma and critical in build. That is enough reason to reduce its power. Master of Flames is far behind in versatility which makes it less attractive.
This skill should never give 100% critical.
0
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
"Eye of the storm" eliminates the need to have charisma and critical in build. That is enough reason to reduce its power. Master of Flames is far behind in versatility which makes it less attractive.
This skill should never give 100% critical.
If you read muy feedback you will see that I suggested the old proc rate and +30/40/50% crit to make crit ussefull. The actual eye of the storm is worse than this, but with 20sec ICD you need crit also for those 20secs.
Cha is still the best second stat for CWs because crit is now needed and it gives CA damage bonus too
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
edited August 2014
Control wizards need more necromancy.
Ray of Enfeeblement fo' life!
I've been using RoE since the beginning, but ever since Conduit was made no longer the defacto "obvious" spell mastery choice (due to the change in Thaumaturgy), I shifted Ray of Enfeeblement into it. Now I'm actually using Scorching Burst, where before I mostly just used Shard + Conduit.
Im fine with this as long as it has an ICD.... Overall almost doubling proc chance and dropping damage by 50% doesnt really DO much, but if it did that PLUS an ICD of a few seconds... That would be alot more fair IMO.
Also, does it proc off GPF and things like that? Ive been told conflicting info....
Id also like to see A.F. Respect DR.... Its been said before in the past.... bypassing DR is never a good idea.
Feedback : Storm Spell
No ,SS deosn't proc from the dot of any enchant,including lightning,as i've tested it extensively.Also i'm against ICD as they tend tio kill good feats.I still don't use eye of the storm because of its cooldown. So a 35% chance with a 50% drop in dps is very balanced considering that they fixed the double proccing bug. Before mod 3 ,because of the bug, it had a procc chance of 20%,which is the same as now.I could accept even an 60% damage reduction from current levels ,if only to see it procc more.
Comments
+1 on that
No.
Leave them the hell alone as they are.
Can you convince devs to buff shard and single target encounters to make up for the huge loss of DPS in PvP if you nerf SS and Assailant?
NO.
Because they already told us Shard is not coming back.
Deal with it. Skillful play from CWs is GONE. I did enjoy playing shard on mastery for 2 modules and I am happy that I had the opportunity. It won't come back, and read this topic, WE TRIED.
Also your observations for PvE are irrelevant and don't matter to be honest. People PvE in this game either because they are forced into it (farming, boons), or because they are new and know nothing better. PvE is easy, badly designed and dumb&repetitive. Mobs don't care, they die anyway.
Conclusion:
Deal with it, basically.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?732021-Artifact-10-second-CD-bug
Can you share me your pretty good CW build plz because I get much less dmg from Storm Spell...
You can do that but HRs and SWs will still outdps you vastly!
Feedback: After playing renegade few runs, it doesnt seem so bad, at least for high geared chars, but his capstone is not unique like other 2 paths and is a bit underpowered. Also, the feats are a bit unbalanced for spellstorm, second level is worthless and you must spend 5 more points to get the good ones than other paths. I suggest make level 2 feat more useful, and you can do this improving maelstrom of chaos. I suggest a change in maelstrom: Change it to something similar to Oppresive force but less dmging and with a random control effect: Prone, Stun, Daze, Freeze. We want a usefull paragon path dailly and the asociated feat usefull.
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
they at least wont ccc lock everything to make dc,tanks useless
btw is it for u ok for cw to do over 12m+ per epic pk run how much they can do now? this is almost 2 times better then before mod 4 and point of mod 4 cw balance was to bring them more in line to other classes
This PLUS cancelling MoC really shouldn't consume 50% of Action Points. This is the only daily that cannot be re-cast after cancelling it with dodge. Most encounters (except Steal time) can also be cancelled with dodge and recast. Was not all this change to dodge mechanics suppose to help us? Maelstrom has to be modified to fit it. And for goodness sake, make this micro aoe range a bit bigger!
I'm a Cw from the start of beta,done many Pk runs post and pre Mod4 and never have i scored 12m+ damage even when i run it with 12k players,in which case i do most of the damage.If you run a cw as well show us some proof of your claims by posting a video of yourself doing such damage will you? Or record one of your PK runs with a cw and tell us his/her stats and Gs so we can know to which Cws are you referring. I have 16,2k Gs,with High Vizier, rank 7-8 enchants, a power score of 4500 and Greater Plague and would love to know your build.
The problem with this is the fact that Maelstrom adds a HUGE survivability buff to us, as well as removing CC. With the way we currently are with Assailing and Storm Spell, having a Daily we can utilise for (1.5 seconds) to remove CC and add A bucketload of damage reduction, being able to effectively be up all the time (with correct animation cancelling) would be broken.
It's bad enough that I can already do it 3 times when I pop my DC artifact...
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
This is the problem. People really forget that not every CW is Thaumaturge. My Renegade has to suffer more restrictions, because we don't want Thaumaturgee to be any stronger? Devs were given feedback how to empower this crippled rene tree, all they did though was buffing all trees which made already powerful ones even more powerful. And further result of this should be preventing dailies from working as they should with new dodge mechanics? Great job, Devs.
Btw. there is a moment while casting MoC when your immunity ends and mob still attacks, and unless you dodge away, you gonna get 98% of your HP taken away. I was fighting the first golem in Ghost Stories ToD campaign quest. I was so sure I'm immune to damage I didn't dodge when this foul beast swung its sword. I was left with approx. 2% of my HP. I'd dodge normally, but this 50% AP loss... So there you go. It doesn't always work.
I agree with you here. Everyone talks about the "this and That" but not everyone has "this or that" and nor should people be obligated to having "this or that". I dont like using the same builds as other people, but balance between the trees should still apply regardless of what you choose, the only difference in it should be how things apply and the way you play.
The mechanic is flawed with the changes made,no matter what capstone or whatever was done. At the least there should be a feat somewhere that does something with this. Before alot of people was calling this daily garbage, without realizing the potential it had its only problem is that it didnt used to crit properly ( LIKE STORM PILLAR WHICH THEY STILL DIDNT FIX! HINT HINT)
DC is very not useless! A good debuff DC make runs 3-4 mins faster.
GF is not useless! New and improved GFs is making runs very smooth. They tank Draco like never even seen making our life pretty easy.
A GF with Into the fray/Knight valor + buff gear is awesome now!
Soon you will see "Lf GF Lostmouth/CN" a lot!
PK is short dungeon with small mobs dying only to look at them. Not very good for testing.
I see HRs doing pretty good dmg in CN now. So I guess these classes catched up and pretty usable now. Not to mention the new super dps class the SW.
Thaum tree is way off balance. Notice how the capstone has assailing and then a capstone comparable feat with the new reworked Elemental Empowerment. Compared to the capstone in Renegade, Elemental Empowerment is much better overall.
I would like to see this feats proc chance increased to 35%(as it was in preview initially) from 20% and its damage reduced by 50% from current levels. That way it'll feel and be more balanced and useful as an Aoe. Also the lightning effects are very nice (Aesthetics are important too you see) and with a 35% chance we'll be to seeing more of them,without unbalancing the class.
Im fine with this as long as it has an ICD.... Overall almost doubling proc chance and dropping damage by 50% doesnt really DO much, but if it did that PLUS an ICD of a few seconds... That would be alot more fair IMO.
Also, does it proc off GPF and things like that? Ive been told conflicting info....
Id also like to see A.F. Respect DR.... Its been said before in the past.... bypassing DR is never a good idea.
Adjust the "Spell Storm" to not activate in dots of feats and enchantments. And the "Eye of Storm" only affects at-wills.
This is an example of BAD FEEDBACK, I hope you are not trolling and it is just ignorance of the CW class mechanics. Storm spell being activated by dots and enchats offers more versatility in builds. Storm spell just need to do less damage (I suggest 35%-40% less damage, same proc chance), activation chance is ok to make spells like Conduit of Ice usefull.
About the Eye of the storm affecting only at-wills..... DO YOU EVER PLAYED A CW?
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
This skill should never give 100% critical.
Cha is still the best second stat for CWs because crit is now needed and it gives CA damage bonus too
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
Ray of Enfeeblement fo' life!
I've been using RoE since the beginning, but ever since Conduit was made no longer the defacto "obvious" spell mastery choice (due to the change in Thaumaturgy), I shifted Ray of Enfeeblement into it. Now I'm actually using Scorching Burst, where before I mostly just used Shard + Conduit.
Feedback : Storm Spell
No ,SS deosn't proc from the dot of any enchant,including lightning,as i've tested it extensively.Also i'm against ICD as they tend tio kill good feats.I still don't use eye of the storm because of its cooldown. So a 35% chance with a 50% drop in dps is very balanced considering that they fixed the double proccing bug. Before mod 3 ,because of the bug, it had a procc chance of 20%,which is the same as now.I could accept even an 60% damage reduction from current levels ,if only to see it procc more.
Why? While GWFs are complaining the HRs and Warlocks are still doing tremendous damage. Do that and we won't be competitive!