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Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
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mugiwaracMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
In a attempt to balance CWs for pve you guys have screwed CWs for end game pvp. WTF are you guys doing? The CWs have been nerfed into the ground. Our damage has been nerfed, we have no survivability, cast times are screwed. Even with end game pvp gear and rank 9 ehnchantments with a perfect vorpal I find I stand little chance against other equal geared players 1v1. Players with better gear I am usually dead before I can do much. All these other class Gfs, GWfs TRs. Have great survivability and do just as much damage if not more than CWs, It takes way to long in a 1v1 encounter to cast anything. Teleport is just a joke unless perfectly timed. trying to use it to get away from other players is such a joke You got Gfs that can leap attack from ridiculous distances, and can block huge amounts of damage They have great survivability and can do great damage and even stun you. You got GWfs that can stun you tell your dead cannot be stopped or cced for short periods and can run so fast it is not even funny. Even with full BI I have had a GWf kill me in a few attacks and my powers hardly damaged him. Trying to dodge with teleport well dealing with these way to long cast times with a GWf in your face is no fun at all. Teleport will not get you away from him anyways. So you try to cc him and he just runs right through it. Trying to out damage him with his heavy armor and high tenacity not going to happen. When you start to win he just runs away like flash. Oh then you got TRs that can take 3/4s of your life in one attack and can stay hidden in shadows and throw knifes at you from great distances and you cannot even target them. First you have to get close and find them and most of the time you are at half health if not dead. then they just roll away and do it all over again. They can stealth right out of damage they can cc all your powers roll out of your attacks and have better defense with medium armor. CWS ARE BROKEN. we have nothing to deal with most of the above mentioned classes abilities. Where we fell short in survivability we made up in damage. Not anymore. The powers we do have to try and make up for what seems a huge gap in power does very little for us. They can be blocked, ran through and stealthed out off. Most of these classes will run right for the CW because then know it is a easy kill and you stand little chance 1v1 against them. You cannot get away. I love pvp in this game and I love to play my CW. But that is changing because I feel so much weaker than these other classes. I have nothing that sets me apart from them. They have way more tools to win the fight than I do. Teleport!!! Joke. It takes good skill to use this to avoid attacks well trying to cast and miss that big attack from the Gf that will lay you low and pretty much finish you off. How much skill does it take to stealth around and throw knives? To drop a circle on the ground while stealthed that locks everyone's powers up that is in it? How much skill does it take to block and reflected everyone damage back at them? How much skill does it take to hit a button that makes it so you cannot be CCed or run like flash? Teleport needs to be made better. It needs to take less stamina than it does, and move you further away, and CWs damage needs to be increased or atleast have better armor penetration or something.. I have 3000 armor penetration and against a higher geared GF or Gwf it seems to do nothing. CWs take the most skill to play in this game in pvp. Not sure why they are get NERFED into the ground.
This post exactly represents my view. CW is a useless punching bag in PVP compared to the other classes. GFs cannot be attacked anymore, nor can those who stand next to the GF. You attack, you die, without them attacking you. GWF sees you - you die. HR sees you - you die. Fix the CW, then I will play NW and buy Zen again. Small imbalances are ok, but what has been done to this game with CW nerfs and GF, GWF, HR buffs is beyond ridiculous.
It's like the devs are being paid by the producer's competitor to destroy this game.
King Goponov - GWF
Eleanor - CW (retired after Assailing nerf)
As long as it comes to equally geared and skilled players, sadly, I have to agree with @mugiwarac. CWs are back to "punching bags". Except now that the skillful play is gone with Renegade destroyed, Ray of Enfeeblement cooldown and damage nerf and Shard damage nerf, there is no way to compensate it with high skill. I don't agree with Robert's suggestion to make Assailant ignore DR again. It would only introduce more imbalances for the future and not solve anything.
My suggestion:
- Double the damage on Ray of Enfeeblement and restore the old cooldown + effect.
- Triple the damage on Shard of Endless Avalanche.
- Make Icy Rays on Spell Mastery ignore all CC immunities.
- Roll the Renegade path back to Module 3.
- After you've done all that, roll Storm Spell back to Module 3.
And there you go. Fixed. Perfect balance. No more sick imbalances. Skillful play would be rewarded, bad play would be punished. Team and solo play would be possible: Shard on TAB for team play with prones, Icy Rays on TAB for solo play. Icy Rays is the best skill to make ignore all CC immunities since it doesn't stun or interrupt the target. No more skillless procs from At-Will + DoT.
I'm pretty sure everyone, no matter which class they main, will like this concept for CWs, because it represents perfect balance where it's only about skill.
But I'm sure whatever buff is coming up for CWs will make us all go WTF and be something no one asked for.
As long as it comes to equally geared and skilled players, sadly, I have to agree with @mugiwarac. CWs are back to "punching bags". Except now that the skillful play is gone with Renegade destroyed, Ray of Enfeeblement cooldown and damage nerf and Shard damage nerf, there is no way to compensate it with high skill. I don't agree with Robert's suggestion to make Assailant ignore DR again. It would only introduce more imbalances for the future and not solve anything.
My suggestion:
- Double the damage on Ray of Enfeeblement and restore the old cooldown + effect.
- Triple the damage on Shard of Endless Avalanche.
- Make Icy Rays on Spell Mastery ignore all CC immunities.
- Roll the Renegade path back to Module 3.
- After you've done all that, roll Storm Spell back to Module 3.
And there you go. Fixed. Perfect balance. No more sick imbalances. Skillful play would be rewarded, bad play would be punished. Team and solo play would be possible: Shard on TAB for team play with prones, Icy Rays on TAB for solo play. Icy Rays is the best skill to make ignore all CC immunities since it doesn't stun or interrupt the target. No more skillless procs from At-Will + DoT.
I'm pretty sure everyone, no matter which class they main, will like this concept for CWs, because it represents perfect balance where it's only about skill.
But I'm sure whatever buff is coming up for CWs will make us all go WTF and be something no one asked for.
I 100% agree with this.
However a few concerns. I think CC immunities should still be CC immunities.
Also, the damage increase on Ray of Enfeeblement could possibly be too much. Especially if you are doubling and then running it on Tab. That will hit 4x as much as it does now. Much more than in previous mods. Combine this with the Magic Missile Class Artifact and the double debuff and Arcane damage will go through the roof. Not necessarily a bad thing. But something I think we would need to be careful to ensure it doesn't go over the top.
I disagree with the Punching bag detail on Cws at the moment. Short of GFs running Reflect build, and extremely skilled Hrs, I feel that I have a good chance agains the majority of other classes.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
However a few concerns. I think CC immunities should still be CC immunities.
Also, the damage increase on Ray of Enfeeblement could possibly be too much. Especially if you are doubling and then running it on Tab. That will hit 4x as much as it does now. Much more than in previous mods. Combine this with the Magic Missile Class Artifact and the double debuff and Arcane damage will go through the roof. Not necessarily a bad thing. But something I think we would need to be careful to ensure it doesn't go over the top.
I disagree with the Punching bag detail on Cws at the moment. Short of GFs running Reflect build, and extremely skilled Hrs, I feel that I have a good chance agains the majority of other classes.
RoE damage got nerfed by 32%. Doubling the damage would mean 36% more damage than on the last mod. They also added 4 sec to the cooldown. Point is, RoE as a damage dealer is only worth taking for Renegades (Arcane stacks + Masterful Arcane Theft). I don't see a setup in which it plays a significant role for Thaums or Oppressors. With Magic Missile being the At-Will with the lowest damage (not counting Storm Pillar), and the fact that Renegade unleashes his full potential only in a zero-CC setup, I think it would be viable and anything but easy to pull off. Reminder: Magic Missile got nerfed by 32%, then buffed by 15%, which is an overall nerf by 21.8%.
On Icy Rays on TAB ignoring CC resistances:
With the last changes, I think this is necessary for balance.
GF: The GF guard is unbreakable and lasts too long. Now, I'm not talking about the broken reflect build. I'm talking about the "normal" GF that 2-shots you. The reality at the moment in case of a non-reflect build is: shield up, walk to you, you're dead. Nothing you can do. It's ok that Chill doesn't go through Guard (even though it should go through it when the GF is standing on Icy Terrain ), but we must have something to protect ourselves against GFs. At least something that stops them from walking. It doesn't destroy their Shield or make them vulnerable. It just gives us a small chance to beat them/run away. If you wanna see it for yourself against a good GF, message Chieftain.
HRs: Icy Rays on TAB going through immunities won't save you from Nightingale. Nothing will.
GWF: Main reason for Icy Rays ignoring immunities - the new GWF sprint. Just to have a chance to create at least some distance when fighting perma-CC-immune GWFs. Yes, using the sprint well against CWs requires some skill. But once a GWF mastered it, like PapaBigN, a CW has zero chance against him. He doesn't even need Unstoppable to dodge all CC encounters. He's like a CW with unlimited dodges. Oh yeah, and he can "rocket" out of any situation to the next potion and nothing can stop him or run as fast as him (except another GWF).
TR: Icy Rays ignoring CC immunities would wreck them. But major changes to TRs are coming. And it's not like a TR has a chance against a skilled CW in the first place.
DC: No change in fight in this case.
SW: Not viable in PvP anyway. Too long skill activation times. Shift ability should make them immune to all damages. But even then…
Plus, all the changes mentioned would not affect PvE whatsoever.
cw in pvp is just a bad joke now. no chance against any class. not enough damage, no control, because every other class is immune to any control. bad joke. cw is dead.
from your jok... er... post, I will focus just on this one part:
If Icy rays can go thought Unstop, GWF will have 0 chances vs any CWs... so, dont lie, pls. If you still do not know how to face a GWF even after the big nerf the class got, then, you have a really serious problem and i suggest you to learn to play PvP.
I already do without any 10M AD (i am not a P2W player like others) or a 20k GS CW... in fact, my, now, 13k CW, is able to melt some high geared GWF-players (around 15/16ks) with ease: Entantgling + Icy + Ray of Death + Storm spell + Shield is my rotation (no glyphs, do not worry)1. BTW, let me tell you 2 tips vs GWF-class: STOP DODGING SURE STRIKE and AVOID GWF-chars when they are on unstoppable, that will helps you a lot vs GWF-players. , i guarantee it
EDIT:
1: My enchant is Plaguefire (normal).
Congrats, But not Dodging Sure Strike, You have just given that GWF all the build up stacks he needs to 1 rotation you. And Good luck trying to Dodge takedown if you are standing still and not moving around. And from there you will get 1 rotationed. GG.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
I already do without any 10M AD (i am not a P2W player like others) or a 20k GS CW... in fact, my, now, 13k CW, is able to melt some high geared GWF-players (around 15/16ks) with ease: Entantgling + Icy + Ray of Death + Storm spell + Shield is my rotation (no glyphs, do not worry)1. BTW, let me tell you 2 tips vs GWF-class: STOP DODGING SURE STRIKE and AVOID GWF-chars when they are on unstoppable, that will helps you a lot vs GWF-players. , i guarantee it
EDIT:
1: My enchant is Plaguefire (normal).
Sorry, i am not the one who is asking for Icy Rays on tab pierce CC inmunity, allowing the CW bypass for free the defenses from any class, perma locking them until dead... even considering that "ss" would be nerfed previously (you need to nerf Orb of impossition too, btw, this way, the perma lock will be more "strict"). So, pls, next time you call some one "imbecile", do not do it when you are just looking at a mirror. Anyway, thank you for confirming that you do not know how to play PvP on this game. Is really funny see how players like you accuse players like me to "bring umbalance to the game".
Dude, we're talking about maximum potential here. I am playing since the first day of Neverwinter. And GWF is my 2nd class. I know how to beat GWFs and I beat almost all of them. It's only the ones where it comes to maximum potential, that also play best-in-slot CW and GWF like I do since the first day of Neverwinter, that I am testing everything on preview with, that cannot be beaten by CWs. I gave you a name. Contact him. I will be surprised if he'll have to use Unstoppable against you even once.
I already do without any 10M AD (i am not a P2W player like others) or a 20k GS CW... in fact, my, now, 13k CW, is able to melt some high geared GWF-players (around 15/16ks) with ease: Entantgling + Icy + Ray of Death + Storm spell + Shield is my rotation (no glyphs, do not worry)1. BTW, let me tell you 2 tips vs GWF-class: STOP DODGING SURE STRIKE and AVOID GWF-chars when they are on unstoppable, that will helps you a lot vs GWF-players. , i guarantee it
EDIT:
1: My enchant is Plaguefire (normal).
Sorry, i am not the one who is asking for Icy Rays on tab pierce CC inmunity, allowing the CW bypass for free the defenses from any class, perma locking them until dead... even considering that "ss" would be nerfed previously (you need to nerf Orb of impossition too, btw, this way, the perma lock will be more "strict"). So, pls, next time you call some one "imbecile", do not do it when you are just looking at a mirror. Anyway, thank you for confirming that you do not know how to play PvP on this game. Is really funny see how players like you accuse players like me to "bring umbalance to the game".
Have you ever tested anything? Do you know what ACT is? I have never seen you on preview. What you say is nonsense. A skilled GWF does not need Unstoppable to beat a CW. With the current god mode builds, Unstoppable is just a 'backup skill' in case you are too lazy to dodge everything with your Sprint - or if you are just bad.
ROFL at this. So, is more dangerous letting a GWF hit anyone with sure strike to get stacks on Destroyer Purpose (stacks on unstop) OR Focused Destroyer (less than 25% to proc, tested and confirmed) than avoiding Takedown/flourish/frontline surge. Ok, thank you for your advice.
You do understand how Severe Reaction works right? And how you can Chain your dodges through the GWF, And for the purposes of Severe Reaction being calculated you benefit as being hit (And having stamina Restored) whilst the GWF doesn't get the stacks built up.)
Maybe you should look at actual class mechanics before you attempt to get into an arguement with two of the longest playing PvP Cws about how to counter a certain class.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Yes, i know how it works, yet, i do not get your point about why is more factible/useful to use teleport to dodge sure strike than use it to dodge takedown... also, not all GWF-players out there use PF as weapon enchant...
You do realise that you can chain dodge through them pretty much all the time if you are smart with your timing. Doing this will mean you never get hit with Take down. And on the very odd chance that you do, They have no stacks. I'm not saying to dodge sure strike over takedown. I am saying that you can benefit from dodging both at the right time.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
What makes you think that? GWF is a DPS class. Why is the Sentinel much tankier than the GF? I'm not sure what build you are running, but try to kill Lord Tyrion as a CW or HR. You will spend way more time on that task than on killing a GF. And I'm talking 20x or more of the time here.
Why are HRs able to heal up 3 - 4x as fast as DCs? Are they clerics? No.
The decision has to be made based on what is fun for the player. No one choosing a class other than the DC wants to play a "support class".
This is what paragon paths are for.
A CW should have a choice: control or damage. Right now, he has both. Same as the HR. An HR dealing enough damage to burst someone down in one rotation should only be able to heal/control to a neglectable minimum. A CW dealing enough damage to burst someone down in one rotation should only be able to control/deal AoE damage to a neglectable minimum.
Choice for the CW should be: single target burst or control or AoE DPS.
Choice for the HR should be: ranged DPS or melee burst or healing/team buffs. I do not play an HR actively, so what I'm saying might not be the best for HR players.
Btw, in DnD the mage is the main damage class ("Wizard"). And same as the HR that can be both "Hunter" and "Ranger", or the GF that can be "Guardian" and "Fighter", the CW should be able to choose between "Controller" and "Wizard" (or be both to a certain extent, sacrificing some potential on both sides).
Well said brother. Mel is absolutely correct.
HAMSTER, level 60 GF, "Bloodthirsty" since Mod 2 Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
As long as it comes to equally geared and skilled players, sadly, I have to agree with @mugiwarac. CWs are back to "punching bags". Except now that the skillful play is gone with Renegade destroyed, Ray of Enfeeblement cooldown and damage nerf and Shard damage nerf, there is no way to compensate it with high skill. I don't agree with Robert's suggestion to make Assailant ignore DR again. It would only introduce more imbalances for the future and not solve anything.
My suggestion:
- Double the damage on Ray of Enfeeblement and restore the old cooldown + effect.
- Triple the damage on Shard of Endless Avalanche.
- Make Icy Rays on Spell Mastery ignore all CC immunities.
- Roll the Renegade path back to Module 3.
- After you've done all that, roll Storm Spell back to Module 3.
And there you go. Fixed. Perfect balance. No more sick imbalances. Skillful play would be rewarded, bad play would be punished. Team and solo play would be possible: Shard on TAB for team play with prones, Icy Rays on TAB for solo play. Icy Rays is the best skill to make ignore all CC immunities since it doesn't stun or interrupt the target. No more skillless procs from At-Will + DoT.
I'm pretty sure everyone, no matter which class they main, will like this concept for CWs, because it represents perfect balance where it's only about skill.
But I'm sure whatever buff is coming up for CWs will make us all go WTF and be something no one asked for.
I am also in full agreement w/ bloodletter24 and mugiwarac. I just finished running the drake dungeon w/ My CW for the second time today. I died at least THREE times before I completed it. My CW kept running out of dodge and either getting one shotted by the boss or burned down by the adds, which I was unable to kill fast enough due to the damage nerfs to Shards of Avalanche and Conduit of Ice. Finally tanked a bunch of potions and quite frankly got a little lucky.
CW's are total punching bags now in PvP. In fact, w/ the current TR setup, it's even worse than it used to be. I'm running a 14.2 K CW w/ about 23k Hps. Two days ago I was One shotted THREE TIMES in one match by a TR. I said to myself, man, this guy is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Then I opened the player's screen and did an inspect on his TR. Imagine my shock and DISGUST when I discovered that this guy was running a 11.5 K (or so) TR.
GS should mean something. If I have almost 3k more pts than another toon, I should be the one doing the killing, not the other way around. That this is NOT true reflects the many weaknesses of CW's that need fixing.
CW's are way underdamaged, way underdefended, and frankly are in no way, shape or form controllers. I've posted fixes on the forums before, and so far as I've seen, they've been totally ignored. A quick list is:
1) CW's are a ranged class. They are blasters. Either they NEED a MUCH longer TP and more of it, and some sort of REAL DURABLE shield, or there needs to be alteration to GWF and GF in regards jumping attacks and how CC affects them. W/o these changes CW's will continue to be punching bags for these melee classes.
2) See Invisible. CW's are wizards and allegedly controllers. So "Mage Sight" or "See Invisible" as a PERMANAENT class feature not only makes sense, but gives CW's a chance against TR's. I recommend a 20 Ft range or so, so the evil TR can at least get close before Ooops, they can see me now.
3) Totally get rid of any and all AOE nerfs. I mean, Really? Maybe all of you should go read some 2nd and 3rd Edition D&D books. Seriously. Pay attention to things like the DAMAGE in the spell descriptions. For a fireball in 3d edition you're talking 10 D6 across a 30 Ft Radius circle (if memory serves!) That's an AVERAGE damage of 35 points to EVERYTHING in the AoE, unless it makes a saving throw for 1/2 damage.
Compare that to a single sword swing from a ST 16 fighter. Assume a longsword. ONE 8 sided die. FOUR points "average" damage. YES, ST above 16 gets bonuses. I think it's six points for Max human ST of 18/00. So now we're up to TEN points average for a single attack on ONE enemy.
SO a fighter just killed one orc or goblin. The wizard barbecued 15 to 20 of them at the same time!
I realize that there has been some sort of "issue" w/ the AoE damage. I'm sorry most people either Can't do the math, or refuse to accept it's logic. If you're doing only 20% of the damage to 10 Mobs that a TR or a GWF are doing to a SINGLE Mob in the same time period, YES, you the CW are always going to way more damage in a dungeon than most everyone else.
Since the CW should be doing 50% or more for some AoE attacks, in order to make those AoE's viable, this is something that the melee types are JUST GOING TO HAVE TO LEARN TO SUCK UP. CW's are blasters. Live it, Learn it, Love it.
4) Optional IF 1 thru 3 are actually DONE. CW's NEED binding CC. They need feats or options in the Paragon Paths that will cancel OUT or negate GF's, GWF's, AND TR's CC immunities. I can hear the wailing now, but I feel little pity for any of these classes. As things sit, I CANNOT kill a GF OR GWF by myself, assuming parity of GS. Their defenses are too strong. I've had GWF's run straight for me and kill me, with me burning up my dodge and every attack that I could on them. And GF's and their leaping stun lock series got old about 6 months ago.
Higher GS? R I G H T..... LOL. And as I previously stated, TR's that are over 2K WEAKER than my CW are cleaning their knives on the robes of my cooling corpse. But BINDING, REAL CC would give a CW a real chance and more importantly, might just make GF's, GWF's and TR's wary of CW's. Hmmm. That would be refreshing.
Comments
- Brazil PvP Fraternité -
Rank 7
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
This post exactly represents my view. CW is a useless punching bag in PVP compared to the other classes. GFs cannot be attacked anymore, nor can those who stand next to the GF. You attack, you die, without them attacking you. GWF sees you - you die. HR sees you - you die. Fix the CW, then I will play NW and buy Zen again. Small imbalances are ok, but what has been done to this game with CW nerfs and GF, GWF, HR buffs is beyond ridiculous.
It's like the devs are being paid by the producer's competitor to destroy this game.
Eleanor - CW (retired after Assailing nerf)
- Brazil PvP Fraternité -
My suggestion:
- Double the damage on Ray of Enfeeblement and restore the old cooldown + effect.
- Triple the damage on Shard of Endless Avalanche.
- Make Icy Rays on Spell Mastery ignore all CC immunities.
- Roll the Renegade path back to Module 3.
- After you've done all that, roll Storm Spell back to Module 3.
And there you go. Fixed. Perfect balance. No more sick imbalances. Skillful play would be rewarded, bad play would be punished. Team and solo play would be possible: Shard on TAB for team play with prones, Icy Rays on TAB for solo play. Icy Rays is the best skill to make ignore all CC immunities since it doesn't stun or interrupt the target. No more skillless procs from At-Will + DoT.
I'm pretty sure everyone, no matter which class they main, will like this concept for CWs, because it represents perfect balance where it's only about skill.
But I'm sure whatever buff is coming up for CWs will make us all go WTF and be something no one asked for.
I 100% agree with this.
However a few concerns. I think CC immunities should still be CC immunities.
Also, the damage increase on Ray of Enfeeblement could possibly be too much. Especially if you are doubling and then running it on Tab. That will hit 4x as much as it does now. Much more than in previous mods. Combine this with the Magic Missile Class Artifact and the double debuff and Arcane damage will go through the roof. Not necessarily a bad thing. But something I think we would need to be careful to ensure it doesn't go over the top.
I disagree with the Punching bag detail on Cws at the moment. Short of GFs running Reflect build, and extremely skilled Hrs, I feel that I have a good chance agains the majority of other classes.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
RoE damage got nerfed by 32%. Doubling the damage would mean 36% more damage than on the last mod. They also added 4 sec to the cooldown. Point is, RoE as a damage dealer is only worth taking for Renegades (Arcane stacks + Masterful Arcane Theft). I don't see a setup in which it plays a significant role for Thaums or Oppressors. With Magic Missile being the At-Will with the lowest damage (not counting Storm Pillar), and the fact that Renegade unleashes his full potential only in a zero-CC setup, I think it would be viable and anything but easy to pull off. Reminder: Magic Missile got nerfed by 32%, then buffed by 15%, which is an overall nerf by 21.8%.
On Icy Rays on TAB ignoring CC resistances:
With the last changes, I think this is necessary for balance.
GF: The GF guard is unbreakable and lasts too long. Now, I'm not talking about the broken reflect build. I'm talking about the "normal" GF that 2-shots you. The reality at the moment in case of a non-reflect build is: shield up, walk to you, you're dead. Nothing you can do. It's ok that Chill doesn't go through Guard (even though it should go through it when the GF is standing on Icy Terrain
HRs: Icy Rays on TAB going through immunities won't save you from Nightingale. Nothing will.
GWF: Main reason for Icy Rays ignoring immunities - the new GWF sprint. Just to have a chance to create at least some distance when fighting perma-CC-immune GWFs. Yes, using the sprint well against CWs requires some skill. But once a GWF mastered it, like PapaBigN, a CW has zero chance against him. He doesn't even need Unstoppable to dodge all CC encounters. He's like a CW with unlimited dodges. Oh yeah, and he can "rocket" out of any situation to the next potion and nothing can stop him or run as fast as him (except another GWF).
TR: Icy Rays ignoring CC immunities would wreck them. But major changes to TRs are coming. And it's not like a TR has a chance against a skilled CW in the first place.
DC: No change in fight in this case.
SW: Not viable in PvP anyway. Too long skill activation times. Shift ability should make them immune to all damages. But even then…
Plus, all the changes mentioned would not affect PvE whatsoever.
agreed
Just no! After all the nerfs with M4, SS is all CWs have. You can not take that away. If anything, buff its damage.
Go uninstall.
Congrats, But not Dodging Sure Strike, You have just given that GWF all the build up stacks he needs to 1 rotation you. And Good luck trying to Dodge takedown if you are standing still and not moving around. And from there you will get 1 rotationed. GG.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Dude, we're talking about maximum potential here. I am playing since the first day of Neverwinter. And GWF is my 2nd class. I know how to beat GWFs and I beat almost all of them. It's only the ones where it comes to maximum potential, that also play best-in-slot CW and GWF like I do since the first day of Neverwinter, that I am testing everything on preview with, that cannot be beaten by CWs. I gave you a name. Contact him. I will be surprised if he'll have to use Unstoppable against you even once.
Have you ever tested anything? Do you know what ACT is? I have never seen you on preview. What you say is nonsense. A skilled GWF does not need Unstoppable to beat a CW. With the current god mode builds, Unstoppable is just a 'backup skill' in case you are too lazy to dodge everything with your Sprint - or if you are just bad.
- Brazil PvP Fraternité -
Rank 7
You do understand how Severe Reaction works right? And how you can Chain your dodges through the GWF, And for the purposes of Severe Reaction being calculated you benefit as being hit (And having stamina Restored) whilst the GWF doesn't get the stacks built up.)
Maybe you should look at actual class mechanics before you attempt to get into an arguement with two of the longest playing PvP Cws about how to counter a certain class.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
You do realise that you can chain dodge through them pretty much all the time if you are smart with your timing. Doing this will mean you never get hit with Take down. And on the very odd chance that you do, They have no stacks. I'm not saying to dodge sure strike over takedown. I am saying that you can benefit from dodging both at the right time.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Well said brother. Mel is absolutely correct.
Anarchist, level 60 CW
Arsenic, level 60 TR
Pluck Yew, level 60 HR
Therapissed, level 60 DC
I am also in full agreement w/ bloodletter24 and mugiwarac. I just finished running the drake dungeon w/ My CW for the second time today. I died at least THREE times before I completed it. My CW kept running out of dodge and either getting one shotted by the boss or burned down by the adds, which I was unable to kill fast enough due to the damage nerfs to Shards of Avalanche and Conduit of Ice. Finally tanked a bunch of potions and quite frankly got a little lucky.
CW's are total punching bags now in PvP. In fact, w/ the current TR setup, it's even worse than it used to be. I'm running a 14.2 K CW w/ about 23k Hps. Two days ago I was One shotted THREE TIMES in one match by a TR. I said to myself, man, this guy is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Then I opened the player's screen and did an inspect on his TR. Imagine my shock and DISGUST when I discovered that this guy was running a 11.5 K (or so) TR.
GS should mean something. If I have almost 3k more pts than another toon, I should be the one doing the killing, not the other way around. That this is NOT true reflects the many weaknesses of CW's that need fixing.
CW's are way underdamaged, way underdefended, and frankly are in no way, shape or form controllers. I've posted fixes on the forums before, and so far as I've seen, they've been totally ignored. A quick list is:
1) CW's are a ranged class. They are blasters. Either they NEED a MUCH longer TP and more of it, and some sort of REAL DURABLE shield, or there needs to be alteration to GWF and GF in regards jumping attacks and how CC affects them. W/o these changes CW's will continue to be punching bags for these melee classes.
2) See Invisible. CW's are wizards and allegedly controllers. So "Mage Sight" or "See Invisible" as a PERMANAENT class feature not only makes sense, but gives CW's a chance against TR's. I recommend a 20 Ft range or so, so the evil TR can at least get close before Ooops, they can see me now.
3) Totally get rid of any and all AOE nerfs. I mean, Really? Maybe all of you should go read some 2nd and 3rd Edition D&D books. Seriously. Pay attention to things like the DAMAGE in the spell descriptions. For a fireball in 3d edition you're talking 10 D6 across a 30 Ft Radius circle (if memory serves!) That's an AVERAGE damage of 35 points to EVERYTHING in the AoE, unless it makes a saving throw for 1/2 damage.
Compare that to a single sword swing from a ST 16 fighter. Assume a longsword. ONE 8 sided die. FOUR points "average" damage. YES, ST above 16 gets bonuses. I think it's six points for Max human ST of 18/00. So now we're up to TEN points average for a single attack on ONE enemy.
SO a fighter just killed one orc or goblin. The wizard barbecued 15 to 20 of them at the same time!
I realize that there has been some sort of "issue" w/ the AoE damage. I'm sorry most people either Can't do the math, or refuse to accept it's logic. If you're doing only 20% of the damage to 10 Mobs that a TR or a GWF are doing to a SINGLE Mob in the same time period, YES, you the CW are always going to way more damage in a dungeon than most everyone else.
Since the CW should be doing 50% or more for some AoE attacks, in order to make those AoE's viable, this is something that the melee types are JUST GOING TO HAVE TO LEARN TO SUCK UP. CW's are blasters. Live it, Learn it, Love it.
4) Optional IF 1 thru 3 are actually DONE. CW's NEED binding CC. They need feats or options in the Paragon Paths that will cancel OUT or negate GF's, GWF's, AND TR's CC immunities. I can hear the wailing now, but I feel little pity for any of these classes. As things sit, I CANNOT kill a GF OR GWF by myself, assuming parity of GS. Their defenses are too strong. I've had GWF's run straight for me and kill me, with me burning up my dodge and every attack that I could on them. And GF's and their leaping stun lock series got old about 6 months ago.
Higher GS? R I G H T..... LOL. And as I previously stated, TR's that are over 2K WEAKER than my CW are cleaning their knives on the robes of my cooling corpse. But BINDING, REAL CC would give a CW a real chance and more importantly, might just make GF's, GWF's and TR's wary of CW's. Hmmm. That would be refreshing.
cheers
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com