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Official Feedback Thread: Control Wizard Changes

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  • yperkeimenosyperkeimenos Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    warpet wrote: »
    they at least wont ccc lock everything to make dc,tanks useless

    btw is it for u ok for cw to do over 12m+ per epic pk run how much they can do now? this is almost 2 times better then before mod 4 and point of mod 4 cw balance was to bring them more in line to other classes

    I'm a Cw from the start of beta,done many Pk runs post and pre Mod4 and never have i scored 12m+ damage even when i run it with 12k players,in which case i do most of the damage.If you run a cw as well show us some proof of your claims by posting a video of yourself doing such damage will you? Or record one of your PK runs with a cw and tell us his/her stats and Gs so we can know to which Cws are you referring. I have 16,2k Gs,with High Vizier, rank 7-8 enchants, a power score of 4500 and Greater Plague and would love to know your build.
    It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
  • xtraordinary91xtraordinary91 Member Posts: 323 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    relativity wrote: »
    This PLUS cancelling MoC really shouldn't consume 50% of Action Points. This is the only daily that cannot be re-cast after cancelling it with dodge. Most encounters (except Steal time) can also be cancelled with dodge and recast. Was not all this change to dodge mechanics suppose to help us? Maelstrom has to be modified to fit it. And for goodness sake, make this micro aoe range a bit bigger!

    The problem with this is the fact that Maelstrom adds a HUGE survivability buff to us, as well as removing CC. With the way we currently are with Assailing and Storm Spell, having a Daily we can utilise for (1.5 seconds) to remove CC and add A bucketload of damage reduction, being able to effectively be up all the time (with correct animation cancelling) would be broken.

    It's bad enough that I can already do it 3 times when I pop my DC artifact...
    Desidus@Xtraordinary91
    19.9k PvP Control Wizard
    <Complaints Department>
  • relativityrelativity Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    With the way we currently are with Assailing...

    This is the problem. People really forget that not every CW is Thaumaturge. My Renegade has to suffer more restrictions, because we don't want Thaumaturgee to be any stronger? Devs were given feedback how to empower this crippled rene tree, all they did though was buffing all trees which made already powerful ones even more powerful. And further result of this should be preventing dailies from working as they should with new dodge mechanics? Great job, Devs.

    Btw. there is a moment while casting MoC when your immunity ends and mob still attacks, and unless you dodge away, you gonna get 98% of your HP taken away. I was fighting the first golem in Ghost Stories ToD campaign quest. I was so sure I'm immune to damage I didn't dodge when this foul beast swung its sword. I was left with approx. 2% of my HP. I'd dodge normally, but this 50% AP loss... So there you go. It doesn't always work.
    Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
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    And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
  • reagenlionel1reagenlionel1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    relativity wrote: »
    This is the problem. People really forget that not every CW is Thaumaturge. My Renegade has to suffer more restrictions, because we don't want Thaumaturgee to be any stronger? Devs were given feedback how to empower this crippled rene tree, all they did though was buffing all trees which made already powerful ones even more powerful. And further result of this should be preventing dailies from working as they should with new dodge mechanics? Great job, Devs.

    Btw. there is a moment while casting MoC when your immunity ends and mob still attacks, and unless you dodge away, you gonna get 98% of your HP taken away. I was fighting the first golem in Ghost Stories ToD campaign quest. I was so sure I'm immune to damage I didn't dodge when this foul beast swung it's sword. I was left with approx. 2% of my HP. I'd dodge normally, but this 50% AP loss... So there you go. It doesn't always work.

    I agree with you here. Everyone talks about the "this and That" but not everyone has "this or that" and nor should people be obligated to having "this or that". I dont like using the same builds as other people, but balance between the trees should still apply regardless of what you choose, the only difference in it should be how things apply and the way you play.

    The mechanic is flawed with the changes made,no matter what capstone or whatever was done. At the least there should be a feat somewhere that does something with this. Before alot of people was calling this daily garbage, without realizing the potential it had its only problem is that it didnt used to crit properly ( LIKE STORM PILLAR WHICH THEY STILL DIDNT FIX! HINT HINT)
  • kozi001kozi001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    warpet wrote: »
    they at least wont ccc lock everything to make dc,tanks useless

    btw is it for u ok for cw to do over 12m+ per epic pk run how much they can do now? this is almost 2 times better then before mod 4 and point of mod 4 cw balance was to bring them more in line to other classes

    DC is very not useless! A good debuff DC make runs 3-4 mins faster.
    GF is not useless! New and improved GFs is making runs very smooth. They tank Draco like never even seen making our life pretty easy.
    A GF with Into the fray/Knight valor + buff gear is awesome now!
    Soon you will see "Lf GF Lostmouth/CN" a lot!


    PK is short dungeon with small mobs dying only to look at them. Not very good for testing.
    I see HRs doing pretty good dmg in CN now. So I guess these classes catched up and pretty usable now. Not to mention the new super dps class the SW. :)
  • seventhpillarseventhpillar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    FEEDBACK

    Thaum tree is way off balance. Notice how the capstone has assailing and then a capstone comparable feat with the new reworked Elemental Empowerment. Compared to the capstone in Renegade, Elemental Empowerment is much better overall.
  • yperkeimenosyperkeimenos Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback : Storm Spell

    I would like to see this feats proc chance increased to 35%(as it was in preview initially) from 20% and its damage reduced by 50% from current levels. That way it'll feel and be more balanced and useful as an Aoe. Also the lightning effects are very nice (Aesthetics are important too you see) and with a 35% chance we'll be to seeing more of them,without unbalancing the class.
    It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback : Storm Spell

    I would like to see this feats proc chance increased to 35%(as it was in preview initially) from 20% and its damage reduced by 50% from current levels. That way it'll feel and be more balanced and useful as an Aoe. Also the lightning effects are very nice (Aesthetics are important too you see) and with a 35% chance we'll be to seeing more of them,without unbalancing the class.

    Im fine with this as long as it has an ICD.... Overall almost doubling proc chance and dropping damage by 50% doesnt really DO much, but if it did that PLUS an ICD of a few seconds... That would be alot more fair IMO.

    Also, does it proc off GPF and things like that? Ive been told conflicting info....

    Id also like to see A.F. Respect DR.... Its been said before in the past.... bypassing DR is never a good idea.
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'm fine with Storm Spell and Assailing Force being adjusted. But no one likes ICD.
  • relativityrelativity Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    No ICD on another good feat. I liked spell storm as it was. Nobody asked for spell storm changes. And there already were worries that Devs might wish to "fix" SS by applying ICD on it, thus destroying another good feat. If SS was to be adjusted it should be reverted to the way it was - that means no ICD.
    Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
    thief-glyphs.gif?w=32
    And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
  • charkanramoncharkanramon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback - StormSpell

    Adjust the "Spell Storm" to not activate in dots of feats and enchantments. And the "Eye of Storm" only affects at-wills.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback - StormSpell

    Adjust the "Spell Storm" to not activate in dots of feats and enchantments. And the "Eye of Storm" only affects at-wills.

    This is an example of BAD FEEDBACK, I hope you are not trolling and it is just ignorance of the CW class mechanics. Storm spell being activated by dots and enchats offers more versatility in builds. Storm spell just need to do less damage (I suggest 35%-40% less damage, same proc chance), activation chance is ok to make spells like Conduit of Ice usefull.

    About the Eye of the storm affecting only at-wills..... DO YOU EVER PLAYED A CW?
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
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  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I agree, just dial down the damage until it's in a good place.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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  • charkanramoncharkanramon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    "Eye of the storm" eliminates the need to have charisma and critical in build. That is enough reason to reduce its power. Master of Flames is far behind in versatility which makes it less attractive.

    This skill should never give 100% critical.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    "Eye of the storm" eliminates the need to have charisma and critical in build. That is enough reason to reduce its power. Master of Flames is far behind in versatility which makes it less attractive.

    This skill should never give 100% critical.
    If you read muy feedback you will see that I suggested the old proc rate and +30/40/50% crit to make crit ussefull. The actual eye of the storm is worse than this, but with 20sec ICD you need crit also for those 20secs.

    Cha is still the best second stat for CWs because crit is now needed and it gives CA damage bonus too
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
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  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Control wizards need more necromancy.

    Ray of Enfeeblement fo' life!

    I've been using RoE since the beginning, but ever since Conduit was made no longer the defacto "obvious" spell mastery choice (due to the change in Thaumaturgy), I shifted Ray of Enfeeblement into it. Now I'm actually using Scorching Burst, where before I mostly just used Shard + Conduit.
  • yperkeimenosyperkeimenos Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ayroux wrote: »
    Im fine with this as long as it has an ICD.... Overall almost doubling proc chance and dropping damage by 50% doesnt really DO much, but if it did that PLUS an ICD of a few seconds... That would be alot more fair IMO.

    Also, does it proc off GPF and things like that? Ive been told conflicting info....

    Id also like to see A.F. Respect DR.... Its been said before in the past.... bypassing DR is never a good idea.

    Feedback : Storm Spell

    No ,SS deosn't proc from the dot of any enchant,including lightning,as i've tested it extensively.Also i'm against ICD as they tend tio kill good feats.I still don't use eye of the storm because of its cooldown. So a 35% chance with a 50% drop in dps is very balanced considering that they fixed the double proccing bug. Before mod 3 ,because of the bug, it had a procc chance of 20%,which is the same as now.I could accept even an 60% damage reduction from current levels ,if only to see it procc more.
    It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
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  • kozi001kozi001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    I agree, just dial down the damage until it's in a good place.

    Why? While GWFs are complaining the HRs and Warlocks are still doing tremendous damage. Do that and we won't be competitive!
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    @panderus

    Any words about phantasmal destruction (renegade)?
    It doesnt proc since mod 4, I checked with act and even checked the txt file of the log, 0% proc

    This should be high priority, renegades are underpowered but with this bug.... even more!
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
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  • nativejoenativejoe Member Posts: 40
    edited August 2014
    Arcane Singularity Broken (Oppressor)

    Arcane Singularity bugs out, gathers the mobs and SLing shots them ALL over the map making it unusable in dungeons.

    I specced Oppressor believing I would take cryptics push towards control and buy the control pets and respec myself and reroll myself for max control. However; It comes at a price. my Arcane singularity now behaves like a repel spell and shoots the enemies across the map about 2 times father then Ice Storm.

    I believe it has something to do with arcane singularity's pull interacting with my bonus to control. IE dps CW's arcane singularities Gather them up nicly and deposit them all nicly in 1 spot so they can be dpsed and cc'ed effectivly.
    Mine is actually a liability and got my group killed multiple times in Castle never because it sling shotted all the mobs to the edges of the ring and no 2 mobs where grouped together making CC impossible. The mobs on my arcane singularity also act oddly when I try it... they are pulled in, swing around on the floor rapidly and glitch out, then explode going in every direction.

    I bought the companions to boost my control, and bought artifacts to further boost my control and I believe I've crossed the threshold where skills start to break. Sadly my control bonus can go WAY higher with better artifacts+stats+gear and Tyranny of dragons tier 5 boon.

    I'm at 132% control.

    I have 35% control from companions
    3% from artifacts
    15% from stats
    75% from orb of imposition

    And if this has anything to do with it... I did buy the Dragon Born pack...

    This is game breaking to me because My ONLY ability to gather up guys and cc them is broken. so effectivly I CANNOT cc in a dungeon enviorment. I have to have another CW gather them with their dps spec, so I can CC...which is ridiculess.

    I realize this is a bug, but the way I see it, I broke my arcane singularity quite possibly by Buying companions and the dragonborn pack...and in order to fix it without the devs help I'll have to spec away from control...or let the renegade and thermas take over gathering the mobs so my oppressor can actually crowd control

    well regaurdless it makes my companions I bought with zen and upgraded useless to put in active slots and this needs to be addressed asap. I'mma be pretty Ticked off about this if I just blew 60 bucks on something I can't use because it will destroy my characters ability to CC. x.x
  • jayrad8jayrad8 Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    @panderus

    Any words about phantasmal destruction (renegade)?
    It doesnt proc since mod 4, I checked with act and even checked the txt file of the log, 0% proc

    This should be high priority, renegades are underpowered but with this bug.... even more!

    I'm not sure that this is true -- Phantasmal Destruction does not produce a visible text proc like that of Eye of the Storm, Storm Spell, Assailant, or Nightmare Wizardry. When the feat procs, you will see the icon appear along with your other active buffs and for whatever reason ACT does not record the proc.

    On that note..

    Please incorporate a text proc for Phantasmal Destruction so users are notified of it in a direct manner.
    panderus wrote: »
    Classes and Balance
    Control Wizard
    Assailing Force: This feat may now be resisted and deflected in PVP.
    Repel: Adjusted Timings to Repel to prevent it from being cancelled after a foe has been pushed. Foes should no longer randomly resist this power too much.

    Nice fix to repel, now just take the aspects removed from Assailant and make Shard so that it cannot be resisted/deflected and it will finally do viable damage. Jokes (was kinda srs) aside..

    I would really like to see the Renegade tree brought on par with the others -- Thaum was the front runner and will be brought closer to the level of Oppressor with the Assailant change, but Renegade still falls behind both trees. I'm not sure how this can be done, maybe by adding more crit severity to Phantasmal since it was moved from T2 to T3 and should be a little more valuable now? Other ideas would be changing a feat to provide synergy with one of the passive skills, such as cooldown reduction on EotS or reducing the amount of missing hp needed to proc Storm Fury to turn it slightly more offensive.
    Ezra@jayrad8 | M4 CW Class Advocate
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  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    jayrad8 wrote: »
    I'm not sure that this is true -- Phantasmal Destruction does not produce a visible text proc like that of Eye of the Storm, Storm Spell, Assailant, or Nightmare Wizardry. When the feat procs, you will see the icon appear along with your other active buffs and for whatever reason ACT does not record the proc.

    On that note..

    Please incorporate a text proc for Phantasmal Destruction so users are notified of it in a direct manner.

    Can be true, I allways played thaum until mod 4, Phantasmal destruction does not show a visible text but also nor appears in the log and thats what confussed me. Anyway I will test it again and watch if there is a buff


    EDIT: Tested it and it works, sorry for the call
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
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  • relativityrelativity Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    jayrad8 wrote: »

    I would really like to see the Renegade tree brought on par with the others --

    Oh dear, wish Devs could finally hear that. Plus: what I cannot accept is after certain level of crit chance accumulated it really doesn't matter if you are rene or thauma - you will crit with same regularity, only Thauma will crit harder. Renegade was suppose to benefit more from crit stacking + combat advantage. Make it happen, very please!
    Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
    thief-glyphs.gif?w=32
    And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
  • nativejoenativejoe Member Posts: 40
    edited August 2014
    Nerfing Assailing force in pvp for half damage when it was unresistable was warrented.

    But now you guys tack on making it deflectable and resistable?

    Atleast up it back to full damage then... because that is the entirity of everything holding the dot dps CW together. Remove that and the Dot PVE spec will be just that... pve. You will literally be required to spec into our single target feat if you wanna have a chance in pvp. CW's arn't the kings of pvp... never have been, never will be. but the balance that keeps them remotly viable is a tricky one because of the simple "FACT" Control is useless in pvp against 90% of opponents. and now we got Low damage 3-4k attacks across the board, the only way for us to down a opponent is via that assailing force you guys keep nerfing x.x
  • yperkeimenosyperkeimenos Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    clonkyo1 wrote: »
    No, they didnt OR at least, it seems not fixed to me due i saw a lot of procs

    I tested it on dummies at preview server,before live release,with a Greater Lightning and Plaguefire,and it didn't procc. Haven't tested it on live yet though.

    EDIT : Tested it on live as well,with a plaguefire. I would hit the dummy once with Icy Ray or the first strike of chilling cloud ,to activate the plague Dots,and then leave it do its thing. In the 20 or so times i tested it,not once did plague Dots trigger Spell Storm.It was triggered a few times by the initial hit of Icy Ray ,or chilling cloud, itself ,but never the Dot. However Assailing force was activated by the Dots.
    It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    My 2 cents has a forme CW with my old alt:

    Revert the whole offensive part to what it was in module 3, with old shard exc.... it was fun and balanced. Keep the increased cc cws have right now and the shield buff/ whole difensive buffs.

    Nothing else to do to have cws balanced in pvp.

    The just tone down pve AoE DPS to balance the class in pve.
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  • mugiwaracmugiwarac Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    feedback:

    the new assailing force does too low damage in pvp! cw is rag doll again! now that it is deflectable and affected by damage reduction, it should not deal only half the damage on players.
    King Goponov - GWF
    Eleanor - CW (retired after Assailing nerf)

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  • therealroberttherealrobert Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    mugiwarac wrote: »
    feedback:

    the new assailing force does too low damage in pvp! cw is rag doll again! now that it is deflectable and affected by damage reduction, it should not deal only half the damage on players.

    +1

    Assailing needs a buff! Something has to make up for the nerf.
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