You completely undermine the importance of balancing. Do you really think all of these gaming companies would spend so much effort into balancing if it was as simple as "learn to deal with it". Obviously skill plays a part in it, but people can have skill and imbalances which add up. Using the same logic you could say that trs are fine in pve, they just need to l2p. I mean sure they can do fine and I wouldn't purposefully leave out a guildie tr that wanted to play, but noone would really go looking for them especially.
TR's are fine in PvE,
They could use damage modification to increase their play
(maybe 100% critical chance if they attack a monster from behind?)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
I think a lot of GWFs are still playing the same way they did before. I'm not saying speccing sent would've made the difference, but there are some pretty big changes to GWF and it might take awhile for everyone to get used to them.
I mean, I still see some GWFs using Roar even though the skill is basically useless now.
In any case, HRs are far from "a God" at PVP. There's as many HRs as there are GWFs on the top two pages (4 each) right now, and I know that at least one of those HRs is using the legendary token, giving him cc-immunity which is the HR's weak spot.
As for the OP, I've never played a game that had such dramatic swings in balance as Neverwinter. When they change stuff, they always try something new and dramatic, and it often ends up being more OP then the thing they were trying to change.
PVP players have a right to want fair games, where everyone is able to contribute and play a role.
If one were cynical, one might suspect Cryptic does these huge changes every 3 months to sell zen, because people need to change classes if they want to be effective, which means lots of AD/Zen spent on new artifacts, leveling etc.
He was destroyer at the time with some feats on senti but I think he has rolled senti now....really nice of them to give a respec after changing much -.-
Anyway my point is that no matter someones build if he had 18k gs vs my 12k, equally as skilled and way better enchants, more boons and much more then there's no way I should have won so easily and it wasn't only him, I went round icewind like easy mode on my new hr, just killing players so easily until I came across another hr or cw of course but it really let me see how unbalanced all the classes are.
So ye you cant balances people items but the classes themselves should be balanced and maybe adding a few new game modes once in a while. What about a game mode that equips everyone with a basic armor for pvp so everyone has the same stats and then it would be a totally even fight.
He was destroyer at the time with some feats on senti but I think he has rolled senti now....really nice of them to give a respec after changing much -.-
Anyway my point is that no matter someones build if he had 18k gs vs my 12k, equally as skilled and way better enchants, more boons and much more then there's no way I should have won so easily and it wasn't only him, I went round icewind like easy mode on my new hr, just killing players so easily until I came across another hr or cw of course but it really let me see how unbalanced all the classes are.
So ye you cant balances people items but the classes themselves should be balanced and maybe adding a few new game modes once in a while. What about a game mode that equips everyone with a basic armor for pvp so everyone has the same stats and then it would be a totally even fight.
I agree we definitely need new game modes.
But another point about the HR thing. Combat gets most of it's damage from feats which give a flat damage percentage based on weapon damage. That's not going to change much for a 12k HR or a 17k HR.
When I first switched to my CW, it was 13k and I was able to kill BIS CWs, because it's the same thing. Assailant and storm spell are set damage.
There are few things that however cant be discussed.
Gf- has more single target then gwf with 60k hp without even trying to max hp.
Cw- are melting people abusing dots, at wills which proc passive unmitigable damages that can crit without internal cooldown.
Tr- dont have damages, cant even perma anymore on a node.
Dc- derp
Glyphs- broken.
This is not complaining. This is stating things.
After stating that your list of "facts" cant be discussed at least try to get them right. My GF is 17,3K GS and I do have more/better single target encounter powers than a GWF but I sure as hell dont have 60K HP... 42K with campfire buff and health rings, CON maxed (+2 racial ). These forums will benefit greatly if people start operating with the correct numbers instead of twisting every bit of data to better serve the point they're tryin' to make.
PS: your point being that HRs are fine and everything else is broken Im guessing
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Pvp is not and will never be the main focus of this game. And don't even get me started about pvp in D&D (wizard vs fighter, yeah sure).
Be content with what you have and don't ruin skills and classes with baseless cries for balance. Pve is and will always be the centerpiece of a D&D game.
I disagree, I think PvP is the main focus of this game. I used to PvP when I did PnP D&D all the time with my friends.
PvP always has, and always will be the centerpiece of D&D as I know it.
OR.....
We can all agree that both PvE and PvP are important aspects of an MMO and are needed to keep the player base satisfied and playing.
The PvE vs PvP vs D&D argument is old and stale, get over it, its an MMO first, and its based on D&D. Stop trolling, leave PvP alone.
My advice to you Kaiser is that you should enjoy the content you have, and not try and smear the content and the players of that content that you do not enjoy.
BTW, once again (Its been covered OVER AND OVER) this update was an attempt to bring balance to PvE! So YOUR camp is what messed everythign up, both PvP AND PvE.
That CW would've gotten kills faster with ray of frost instead of magic missile.
But yeah like I mentioned above, the bulk of the damage is pretty much regardless of GS. Any CW that can avoid being focused or is playing against scrubs will kill a lot of people.
Please remember that there is no way to balance pvp with people that have an assortment of gears and skills that are at different levels of power and defence.
No matter what is done to so called balance the game, you will always have a player go in that is under geared or over geared into combat and get squashed or dominate all.
Just enjoy the game and stop asking for others to be weakened because you have not found the way to defeat them yet.
If you have 21-25khp and the person you are fighting has 45k-60khp, do not expect to just blow them out of the water.
If you want to ask who is breaking the game, just go look in the mirror.
You are the guilty ones.
I know you want to win. I know you want to dominate everything in your path. But how boring would it be if you always won? Would it even be worth playing?
Many of you also are now complaining that MOD 4 is broken. Did you stop and think that if you were not all complaining about our old balance that the Developers could have done even more amazing things in MOD 4? Did you stop and think that if you guys had helped test on shard server and reported bugs quickly (without constantly crying for nerfs) that you would not be suffering like you are now?
You are causing the downfall of this game.
This is a small percentage of the player base, most of which are so new to the game they do not even frequent the forums. Most of us are geared in the 14k-17k range and know how the game works and plays. Making excuses for OP classes just because they were fun that way is not going to change the fact GWF were gods for far to long. You've been nerfed back to normal deal with it!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
This was tested on preview, reported on feedback and unfortunately made it live. Some of the biggest unbalances were added the last 2 weeks before launch. This isn't a l2p issue, it is a "will get patched" issue. Good points in the OP but that doesn't apply to a few of the things going on in pvp right now. Give it a patch or two and it should calm down. If you don't know what these are then there is nothing I can do to help. These aren't small things they are glaring.
Yep. Active CWs were reporting ludicrous damage output prior to Mod 4 going live. GFs were reporting that their guard was blooking a bare minimum amount of CCs. Everyone was reporting that CWs were wrecking them in PVP with ease. What people cautioned against on the Preview Shard is now a reality.
What is going on now, especially in PVP, was brought to the attention of the devs before Mod 4 went live. It would have been simple for the devs to rollback the offending powers, feats and mechanics and then dated them for a later release instead of having the forums explode with ''Plz nerf'' and a ''We told you so'' threads and comments and a week spent working on fixes and nerfs.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
This is a small percentage of the player base, most of which are so new to the game they do not even frequent the forums. Most of us are geared in the 14k-17k range and know how the game works and plays. Making excuses for OP classes just because they were fun that way is not going to change the fact GWF were gods for far to long. You've been nerfed back to normal deal with it!
Yo Rip how long will it take for you get over the GWFs, our GFs are awesome now cant we just play them and enjoy the game? I see many people still acting as if the GWFs was not already super nerfed. Get on with the program and stop living in the past. Just for folks like you who excuse any current imbalance with the " GWFs were so OP " card I'll slot a blue dragon glyph on my GWF in PVP, to HAMSTER ya off even more.
As for the CW players who mindlessly exploit the current power of the class I'll leave this food for thought. Look at the GWF class, see how everybody hates it and what nerfs it suffered thanks to that hate. You get the picture ? Now put your CW in that same picture because the longer the current wizards go untouched the greater the hate/nerf will be.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Please remember that there is no way to balance pvp with people that have an assortment of gears and skills that are at different levels of power and defence.
No matter what is done to so called balance the game, you will always have a player go in that is under geared or over geared into combat and get squashed or dominate all.
Just enjoy the game and stop asking for others to be weakened because you have not found the way to defeat them yet.
If you have 21-25khp and the person you are fighting has 45k-60khp, do not expect to just blow them out of the water.
If you want to ask who is breaking the game, just go look in the mirror.
You are the guilty ones.
I know you want to win. I know you want to dominate everything in your path. But how boring would it be if you always won? Would it even be worth playing?
Many of you also are now complaining that MOD 4 is broken. Did you stop and think that if you were not all complaining about our old balance that the Developers could have done even more amazing things in MOD 4? Did you stop and think that if you guys had helped test on shard server and reported bugs quickly (without constantly crying for nerfs) that you would not be suffering like you are now?
You are causing the downfall of this game.
Sounds great in theory, if you are looking purely class v class with similar gear. But this game does a super **** job at matching, fresh players against players in full PvP gear or even just purely on item score its totally one sided. yeah, sure thing classes will be weaker and stronger vs another class, thats fine , but at least try to put players against the same lvl of players.
I just returned to the game being my fav race / class both got released , thought I would have a crack at pvp only to have my whole team be destroyed by 1 GWF 16/0/7 was his end KDR, not only was he able to kill me from start to finish without me being able to doa **** thing , he also went 4 on 1 and lost about 1/3 of his life.
Yeah sure, maybe you could have owned him on 5 different toons, and I am happy for you if you could but lets be real here that guy should have never been matched against fresh players, might not be a class balance issue but it sure as **** is a match maker issue.
The experience left both me and the friend I was playing with feel that PvP was just pointless now if you don't have the gear or don't want to afk bot the points. That isn't how you want new players to feel coming into a game. Now I can list numerous games on many platforms that use an endlessly smarter matching system than this.
I agree the balance is probibly not in the classes so calling for nerfs is not the best way but HAMSTER would it kill the Dev team to make a balanced matching system and stop all the issues dead?
That CW would've gotten kills faster with ray of frost instead of magic missile.
But yeah like I mentioned above, the bulk of the damage is pretty much regardless of GS. Any CW that can avoid being focused or is playing against scrubs will kill a lot of people.
the problem is how can a cw with no weapon enchant and a 9k gs deal massive damage and dot like that?
smells fishy right?
the problem is how can a cw with no weapon enchant and a 9k gs deal massive damage and dot like that?
smells fishy right?
I explained it. Spell storm and assailant are going to hit for about as much regardless of your gear. Same thing is true with combat HR. They changed quite a few feats on classes to be a % of weapon damage, and weapon damage doesn't change that much at level 60.
A 20k CW would be killing people at about the same speed as this guy.
Gear helps CWs with survivability, which this guy didn't have to worry about cause he was fighting scrubs.
The changes greatly help new CWs that at least know how to spec. On the flipside, there's not all that much a geared CW can do to increase damage significantly.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited August 2014
1. Trying to balance every class with every other class never works. Some classes should be a natural foil for another.
2. AS class types expand, its becoming abundantly clear they should move a 5 vs 5 to a 10 vs 10 arena. Why? Because when you expand the pool , you allow room for more unique builds, vs just always optimal pathing.
3. I want to point out that MANY of us not only tested, but begged the devs not to do what they did, mod 3 was as CLOSE to balanced amongst the majority of the played classes as we have seen in this game.
This is what they shouldve done if they listened to actual reason.
1. Buff the GF.
2. Fix Roar.
3. Turn HR armour and healing down slightly, but keep constrictive arrow.
4. Fix control effects on wizard, the crazy adjustments.. argh.
5. Allow TR flexibility, INCREASE damage and some survivilabity with tradeoff on Perma stealthing.
6. FIX the dc feat lines, worst in the game, with lots of lacked synergy OR bare minimal increases, which ALL have been either nerfed, or destroyed due to the double whammy of rightouesness and healing depression (let alone getting shadowtouched )
This wouldve brought the balance ever closer. What they did was ridiculous, what they did was listen to the far extremes and implemented them, I have to say , this was warned about over and over by alot reasonable players.
REGARDLESS of the above, there ARE things that have to be adjusted ASAP, like the Glyph issue.
I want to point out one simple rule that should be implemented.
THAT a person given specific feedback on a type of class, SHOULD have leveled one on live, 1-60 and done around 100 dom matches, this would solve so much negative, ridicoulous, over the top feedback that is given.
Too many people care about their class alone, which is ruining the game for alot of us who like to play 4-5 different ones.
You are so mother ****ing incompetent on the aspect of this post along with the rest of the PvEers. We're causing the downfall of this game? Well how about I say YOU and your PvE buddies are causing the downfall of this game.. A CW should not be able to ****ing 2 man a dungeon like they were able to in the past 2 Modules (3 and 4) Now a lot of dumbasses is gonna say that it was impossible in Mod 3 soo..
So if you think me as a PvPer is causing the downfall of this game then I'm gonna say that you as a Whatever the **** you are, are causing the downfall of this game by crying to the devs that the CWs shouldn't be nerfed when they obviously need to be tuned down so they can't complete this dungeon with 2 people. "They're over-gearing the content" 15k is not over-gearing the content. So please explain to me how only the PvP community is causing the downfall.
This second paragraph is for how incompetent you are in a PvP aspect of the game along with your other fellow PvEers.
Many of you also are now complaining that MOD 4 is broken. Did you stop and think that if you were not all complaining about our old balance that the Developers could have done even more amazing things in MOD 4? Did you stop and think that if you guys had helped test on shard server and reported bugs quickly (without constantly crying for nerfs) that you would not be suffering like you are now?
So what's broken? Please tell me. You need to look at the ****ing feedback threads before coming here to make a **** fool out of yourself. The CWs are broken in PvP.. Were they broken last module? NO, why'd they get changed? Because you ****ing PvEers are abusing the content because they were ****ing OP in PVE NOT PVP. Wilds Med? US TESTING THE **** OUT GOT IT NERFED BECAUSE IT WAS TOO MUCH. GWF DR? AGAIN US TESTING THE **** GOT IT BUFFED BACK UP. How dare you tell me that "if we helped test on the shard server and reported bugs quickly we would not be suffering" Because once again we're suffering because you PvE players were ABSUING THE CONTENT. Dragon Glyphs? You couldn't even test that **** on preview so is that our fault? NO. The whole reason anything is ****ing wrong with this module is because the devs didn't LISTEN to when we told them that SS and EOTS was to ****ing much. Instead they listened to the incompetent CW PvEers who were afraid that they may not be OP in PvE.
+1 to this, those PVP whiners are ruining the game.
You sit the **** down and listen to what I said up there. YOU CONTENT ABUSERS ARE RUINING THE GAME. The people who decided to be noble and create 2-Man GWF and 2-Man CW videos of them completing epic dungeons have as much responsibility for this **** as the ones that abused their OPness in PvP.
If changes ARE made by the Devs for the sake of PvP, the changes should be made in the PvP events ONLY, not to class as a whole! This part is critical to maintain the PvE portion of the game.
One PvEer who's got it right just a few changes. "Maintain the PvP portion of the game" For the simple fact that we wouldn't be living in this hell hold of CWs if the content abusers wouldn't have abused the content.
At that point you have massive qq from the PvP community, who, at their core want NOTHING to do with balance...
Another edit "you have massive qq from the WHOLE community" Don't think you can make the PvEers come off as sweet little angels. Because the CWs were crying about not being as OP in a dungeon as they were before, I put on a skit for you because you're just that special.
Devs:CW's are getting nerfed because they're OP sorry
PvE CWs: NOOOO DEVS DON'T NERF US BECAUSE OF PvP
Devs: Are you mother ****ers incompetent? You're not even OP in PvP you're OP in PvE
PvE CWs: NOO THAT'S NOT FAIR PvPers DESERVE BLAME YOU HATE US
Devs: Okay fine stop ****ing crying you guys are getting buffed back up
PvE CWs: YAAAAAAS
+1 to OP
I still miss those 4 daggers...because 12 is too OP for PVP
Finally, someone found something that actually was the fault of PvPers.. I mean it has no reason in this thread because OP is talking about Mod3 and 4 but okay I'll give you this one.
Why don't they make a PVP server like the test server where everyone can do the same damage wear the same gear and shoot rainbows out the arses that will solve the dilemma, and leave all of us playing the game it was intended in peace.
I actually think the complete opposite. You're such a dumb *** that I just HAD to quote you twice, you set yourself up for this trap "leave all of us playing the game it was intended in peace"..Because it was intended to complete the epic dungeons 2-Man.. We were actually close to balance in PvP until you and the rest of your content abusers changed the whole CW class.
I'm so sick of you PvEers I swear. I was reading each post and laughing while reading, look and saw how almost EVERY SINGLE PvPer who commented was humble, said nothing rude, just stated some wrong things about it. You see that's the difference between us PvPers and you PvEers, we stay on the **** we know while you try to tell the world what's right and what's wrong. I if anyone hate the elitist attitude of the PvPers but in my little time in joining the forums (Because I only have a couple of PvE friends, now I know why) The PvE attitude is worse. It's disgusting, you feel like you should have the world because it's all yours, you decide that you have the right to talk about something that you know **** about and it's sad. Just like our elitist attitude it's most of you that have it not all but it's disgusting.If you don't like us then you stay on your side and we'll stay on ours. So If I want to find the person who is "Breaking the Game" I'll look in the mirror as soon as all of you do the same. I'm someone who knows that we're all ONE community with just different likings, but know I've had enough.
This comment can't be sent to the lower depth since I barely broke any rules and I'm just expressing my opinion, If this comment is sent to the lower depths then the whole thread needs to follow it...
I explained it. Spell storm and assailant are going to hit for about as much regardless of your gear. Same thing is true with combat HR. They changed quite a few feats on classes to be a % of weapon damage, and weapon damage doesn't change that much at level 60.
A 20k CW would be killing people at about the same speed as this guy.
Gear helps CWs with survivability, which this guy didn't have to worry about cause he was fighting scrubs.
The changes greatly help new CWs that at least know how to spec. On the flipside, there's not all that much a geared CW can do to increase damage significantly.
Yep its quite awesome as it is, a CW can go full tank with 0 offensive stats and still dish enough damage to melt a GF in seconds. The Cryptic motto is " Break it before make it.. then break it some more"
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Yep its quite awesome as it is, a CW can go full tank with 0 offensive stats and still dish enough damage to melt a GF in seconds. The Cryptic motto is " Break it before make it.. then break it some more"
Something that might help would be to change these feats/spell storm to scale off power instead of weapon damage. At least then if you get melted it's because the guy was geared and built for offense. Make the current damage require a buttload of power to pull off.
Yo Rip how long will it take for you get over the GWFs, our GFs are awesome now cant we just play them and enjoy the game? I see many people still acting as if the GWFs was not already super nerfed. Get on with the program and stop living in the past. Just for folks like you who excuse any current imbalance with the " GWFs were so OP " card I'll slot a blue dragon glyph on my GWF in PVP, to HAMSTER ya off even more.
As for the CW players who mindlessly exploit the current power of the class I'll leave this food for thought. Look at the GWF class, see how everybody hates it and what nerfs it suffered thanks to that hate. You get the picture ? Now put your CW in that same picture because the longer the current wizards go untouched the greater the hate/nerf will be.
Yes, of course stop threads about history then, talking about how fun the game was when it was only fun for 2 classes!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Yo Rip how long will it take for you get over the GWFs, our GFs are awesome now cant we just play them and enjoy the game? I see many people still acting as if the GWFs was not already super nerfed. Get on with the program and stop living in the past. Just for folks like you who excuse any current imbalance with the " GWFs were so OP " card I'll slot a blue dragon glyph on my GWF in PVP, to HAMSTER ya off even more.
As for the CW players who mindlessly exploit the current power of the class I'll leave this food for thought. Look at the GWF class, see how everybody hates it and what nerfs it suffered thanks to that hate. You get the picture ? Now put your CW in that same picture because the longer the current wizards go untouched the greater the hate/nerf will be.
Does that mean we get to be super OP in PVP for 2 whole mods like GWFs were? Man Mod 6 is going to suck.
I do think GWFs were nerfed but it's a weird kind of nerf because they have about the same damage, a little lower, but cc-immunity is off the charts. DR is down (unless your playing sent, then it's up). I feel for you guys then I run across a geared/skilled GWF and I get owned.
Just out of curiousity, how would game balance be if they brought back all unnerfed classes? (keeping all bug fixes and tenacity)
So like: Mod 1 big damage TRs, Mod2 IV GWFs, Mod3 HRs+unnerfed armor, current CWs, near future OP GFs, and near future OP DCs
Every class will have their toys back and probably less room for cries since it'll be "OP" vs "OP" vs "OP". Rather than "OP" vs normal classes.
I think I love you. I am a PvPer mainly my self - have to do those dailys though (sigh, can we get rid of dailys by the way?). Have been ever since the game started. PvE is fun, but it is the same thing over and over. I know you could say the same for PvP 2 maps, 1 game mode. But every time it is different!
I exclusively played a CW from release all the way up until now. I also have a TR(Combat WhisperKnife) which is my secondary main character. And a newly 60 GWF (Int and Recovery based) I enjoy making weird builds and getting them to work. I refuse to play my CW in pvp now because it really takes no skill, just as I stopped playing my GWF during Mod 3 because it was just boringly too easy. I am a MoF and not an Oppressor on my CW, still I feel really overpowered, because I am used to playing versus the other classes as they were in Mod 3. Mod 3 CW wasn't in the best spot. We needed a little bit of love for PvP but over all it was fun to be a CW because it actually required some amount of skill if you wanted to be good.
PvE and PvP are both still imbalanced. I blame it mainly on all of the extra goodies the Devs keep adding to the game. Sets with ridiculous effects, artifacts that shouldn't exist and enchants that make it derp derp easy to do whatever.
I am the kind of player that avoids whatever build is the current Meta as if it would give me every STD known to man. You know that what ever build everyone is flocking to is going to be eventually nerfed because it is, at its core, OP or rather, imbalanced, in some way.
Don't put all of your eggs in one basket. Don't put all of your efforts in to gearing and attaining the perfect stats for an obviously OP build that will be nerfed. You are only setting yourselves up for a lot of disappointment.
Sadly I know most people won't listen to this. I guess most people can't admit to themselves when they are only making a class to win because it is easy mode. Just think of all the GWFs that started flooding in to the game after they got their love. Before that, remember how many TR's there used to be? And then how many Pathfinder HR's we started to see? And now it is happening with CW's.
We have seen this kind of thing in every Module, varying between classes. There is always 1 or 2 classes that are deemed way too OP in PvE or PvP. Just remember what happened to TR's, over and over again. While some of these nerfs were justified, some of them went a little too far. I hope they don't end up destroying CW's because it is still one of my favorite classes. But they need to not make it so Easy Mode. A true CW doesn't want it easy! They want to use their skill's and reaction time in tandem with spacial awareness to control and damage whom ever they deem necessary at that given moment. Not melting everything in front of you with complete and utter total lock down.
No class should even have the potential to lock someone down until death. Even when they way out gear you. The mechanics need to be set up in a way that completely disallow this to happen.
My suggestion: Give CC's their same time duration, but give them a damage or %HP ceiling. If target player who is CC'ed takes x% of their HP in damage then CC ends instantly. Or if they take 3000 damage then CC breaks. These are just random examples to show what I mean. CC is the biggest problem when it comes to balancing anything in an MMO. More so for PVP though, because the mobs from your dungeon runs aren't going to flood the forums saying that your party is too OP and they need to be nerfed.
CC's will always be the bane of balance.
While PvPing on my TR I see all of these CW's come back out of nowhere. In Mod 3 I would rarely see any CW's in domination matches. I really detest the whole FoTM movements that happen over and over. Stop flocking to whatever is the current OP build/class. Pick the classes you like and have fun playing. You will become so much better, you won't need to rely on broken bull**** to win or get kills.
I know there are other PvPers out there that feel the same way as I do. Those of us who can openly admit when something is OP and broken. And yes we get mad about it! This game, to us, IS PvP. When we are getting killed very quickly by people that are under geared and lack any skill that the class requires because of stupidly broken OP builds/bugs/whatever it is maddening. Mostly due to these people thinking that they are actually good.
Let's look at it from a PvE standpoint here:
Imagine running a dungeon that you were way over the gear score for. But no matter how well you played, 90% of the time you lose. Would you complain about that? Or would that feel fair and just be classified as whining or needing to l2p?
TL;DR
FotM Class builds = next on the nerf chopping block - so why waste your time with it? Stop flocking to the easiest thing!!!
Let's all stop pretending we don't know that we are OP when our class is OP - you aren't as skilled as you think you are, nor am I
Crowd Control will continue to be the bane of proper balance. No one should even have the possibility or potential to lock someone down until death.
I really think the Assailing force feat should just be removed (and my highest gearscore character is a CW!), it really doesn't fit in with what an Oppressor was originally at all.
PvE and PvP effect each other in terms of balance. It will continue like this forever until Cryptic (if ever) gets around to adding more code to make things work differently in PvP than they do in PvE.
Ad some kind of a governing facet to certain powers and the way all CCs work.
If player is CC'ed, the CC will break once the player takes X% of their HP in damages. If they aren't damaged enough to break the CC then it will last the regular duration.
On top of that add diminishing returns to Control for PVP ONLY.
Overall, Cryptic should add the necessary code to allow these different laws/rules to take place inside of PvP and not in PvE.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Just out of curiousity, how would game balance be if they brought back all unnerfed classes? (keeping all bug fixes and tenacity)
So like: Mod 1 big damage TRs, Mod2 IV GWFs, Mod3 HRs+unnerfed armor, current CWs, near future OP GFs, and near future OP DCs
Every class will have their toys back and probably less room for cries since it'll be "OP" vs "OP" vs "OP". Rather than "OP" vs normal classes.
I think there would still be a lot of whining, because fights wouldn't last long enough to play out in a proper way. Whoever got the first attack would win. So people would cry about TR's all over again because they specialize in getting that first hit and picking when and who to attack.
I see your logic though. If everyone is OP, then OP = the new normal hence it will all be normal vs normal.
The biggest fault with this current CW OPness lies in the feats given by the control tree. Why they gave Oppressor tree such a ridiculously good damage Capstone feat is beyond me, it really doesn't follow the logic behind the class. But more to the point, it doesn't fit the tree that is supposed to specialize in control. I miss my 3 chill stacks from Chill Strike and 5 from Ice Storm.
When people are going to the control tree to get the best damage you know something somewhere went horribly wrong.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
I think there would still be a lot of whining, because fights wouldn't last long enough to play out in a proper way. Whoever got the first attack would win. So people would cry about TR's all over again because they specialize in getting that first hit and picking when and who to attack.
I see your logic though. If everyone is OP, then OP = the new normal hence it will all be normal vs normal.
The biggest fault with this current CW OPness lies in the feats given by the control tree. Why they gave Oppressor tree such a ridiculously good damage Capstone feat is beyond me, it really doesn't follow the logic behind the class. But more to the point, it doesn't fit the tree that is supposed to specialize in control. I miss my 3 chill stacks from Chill Strike and 5 from Ice Storm.
When people are going to the control tree to get the best damage you know something somewhere went horribly wrong.
Actually, this would work if HD didn't exist. That way DC's could actually do something beneficial to the team.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
I'm glad to see that many experienced CWs agree that the class is OP and that only means bad news for everyone, even them in the future.
I also hate FotM builds and classes, I play a Whisperknife TR and I play it because it's fun to me, not because I want to stomp others, people who just play a specific class/build because it's OP make me want to throw up a bit.
Sometimes I wonder if class balance is what the devs are looking for or not.
Main problem of NW PvP is, if you ask me, that most players, i'd say 90%, suck but think they are good enough or even strong. Then reality kicks them in the ballz, and they come on the forums crying.
For example, very, very few players move while fighting. I see 90% of players i meet in PvP standing still. CWs suck now even with OP damage cause they just sit there, press the buttons, when you reach them they teleport-teleport-teleport and then they die. Same with many GWFs facetanking everything and moving only to close the gap or run away. Same with GFs, only blocking-cc chain/ DPS, block again...very few actually run-blocl-run-block when in a melee fight with a GWF. If you look at pretty much every video of experienced PvPers, be they CW, HRs, TRs, DCs, GWF...they move. They not just dodge, they bunnyhop and move the whole time.
With my old CW, for example, i used to dance bunnyhopping around GWFs, forcing them to spam threat rush. TR lagged, no damage and takedown missed 90% of the times. They could try FLS/ Roar and that's when i teleported. GWFs used to stop and aim a fraction of second before using these skills. Just anticipating that moment was a good way to kite them, even if iron vanguard. I don't see any CW doing this not even now. It was good also to be able to put enfleebement on tab and tactically neutralize the enemy creating more problems to my team. Only thing that was in need of a little boost was the ability to dodge/ defend (shield buff, CC buff) when a melee class decided to target you.
Or DCs standing there, eating the damage and shifting only when you reach them, while good DCs were always moving and shifting through their mates to mess the aiming of the enemies targeting them.
Players can't adapt to the "action" part of neverwinter PvP and end up feeling underpowered and complaining.
When i started playing my GWF i used to lose to perma TRs without even landing a hit. I practiced, learned, and with experience i can now often outplay them and anticipate their moves, and permastealth is pretty much not a problem but i feel it as just a fight of skills (TR skill to kite me, my skill to catch him).
Also, many players act as if disengaging to heal and come back is some kind of bad behaviour. You serious? You're just plain stupid if you think that just die and go to campfire after a long cooldown, when you could disengage and heal/ go to another node fast, is a smart move. It's just a dumb move. Skill also means you can judge a fight and decide if it's better to die and respawn or to disengage and recover. Sometimes you have to fight till you die to buy time, sometimes it's better to disengage and go help somewhere else or come back later.
Also, another thing few players do is, for example, using hotenhow columns to troll multiple enemies/ buy time or hit-and-run. I do it a lot on my destroyer. It's a good tactic.
Balance is good, but some people keep complaining, even in module 4, about, for example, GWFs or perma TRs, just cause they are lazy, they want a button to just counter everything the enemy does. That's not skill.
I like how GWF destroyer is now in PvP with the right build. Squishy sure, but playing smart it's A LOT more fun than a regeneration sentinel from module 1, or a IV sentinel from Mod2, or a IV Roar destro from module 3. GWFs (well, some of them) could adapt and still do good even after the nerfs/ rework.
Balance is not just up to the devs. It's also up to the players who need to learn to play their class, learn the enemy and learn how to move in PvP.
The biggest fault with this current CW OPness lies in the feats given by the control tree. Why they gave Oppressor tree such a ridiculously good damage Capstone feat is beyond me, it really doesn't follow the logic behind the class. But more to the point, it doesn't fit the tree that is supposed to specialize in control. I miss my 3 chill stacks from Chill Strike and 5 from Ice Storm.
When people are going to the control tree to get the best damage you know something somewhere went horribly wrong.
Thaum still does more DPS than Oppressor.
They buffed the damage in the oppressor tree because nobody played it - at least not in PvE. This game is a DPS race and any build with low DPS is shunned.
In fact the 'go DPS or go home' game mechanic is at the root of a lot of the issues for balance. You can't have a control wizard who does low DPS because it won't work for solo PvE or PuG PvP. Levelling a DC is painful for this reason.
You can't have characters with low DPS in a game where only DPS matters.
I'm glad to see that many experienced CWs agree that the class is OP and that only means bad news for everyone, even them in the future.
I also hate FotM builds and classes, I play a Whisperknife TR and I play it because it's fun to me, not because I want to stomp others, people who just play a specific class/build because it's OP make me want to throw up a bit.
Sometimes I wonder if class balance is what the devs are looking for or not.
Hey reiwulf, I remember you from my WK Bladeslinger theory crafting thread! Glad to see your still keeping up with what you know you like.
I have a sneaking suspicion that they keep tipping the scales in different favors, in regards to class balance, to keep people having to sink some more money for more enchants and other things for their newly made and quickly leveled FotM OP bull-spit.
@xtraordinary91
HD was a weird thing to put in the game in the first place. I feel like it was a quick fix to problems that didn't have much to do with DC's in the first place. But it effected the DC more than anything else.
It is up to us though, the community of Neverwinter, the entire player base - to be honest with each other, ourselves and the devs. If something is OP don't try to deny it. Accept that it is OP and think of a way that it could be toned back with out making it become completely laughable. I will always hate the FotM crowd, with an undying loathsome passion. Let's just nip the OP stuff in the butt as fast as possible so it doesn't continue to rot every ones experience in game. All CW's needed was a little buff in the control department. My biggest complaint through out Mod 3 was that other classes had better CC skills, more damage, and more longevity during a battle. Not sure why they thought, "Let's give them more control, and also let them be able to completely destroy people at the same exact time"
With every Module and patch that comes our way, let's voice a unanimous honest opinion and demand proper changes in a timely manner, together.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Comments
They could use damage modification to increase their play
(maybe 100% critical chance if they attack a monster from behind?)
He was destroyer at the time with some feats on senti but I think he has rolled senti now....really nice of them to give a respec after changing much -.-
Anyway my point is that no matter someones build if he had 18k gs vs my 12k, equally as skilled and way better enchants, more boons and much more then there's no way I should have won so easily and it wasn't only him, I went round icewind like easy mode on my new hr, just killing players so easily until I came across another hr or cw of course but it really let me see how unbalanced all the classes are.
So ye you cant balances people items but the classes themselves should be balanced and maybe adding a few new game modes once in a while. What about a game mode that equips everyone with a basic armor for pvp so everyone has the same stats and then it would be a totally even fight.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I agree we definitely need new game modes.
But another point about the HR thing. Combat gets most of it's damage from feats which give a flat damage percentage based on weapon damage. That's not going to change much for a 12k HR or a 17k HR.
When I first switched to my CW, it was 13k and I was able to kill BIS CWs, because it's the same thing. Assailant and storm spell are set damage.
After stating that your list of "facts" cant be discussed at least try to get them right. My GF is 17,3K GS and I do have more/better single target encounter powers than a GWF but I sure as hell dont have 60K HP... 42K with campfire buff and health rings, CON maxed (+2 racial ). These forums will benefit greatly if people start operating with the correct numbers instead of twisting every bit of data to better serve the point they're tryin' to make.
PS: your point being that HRs are fine and everything else is broken Im guessing
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhG45JRk5FM
I disagree, I think PvP is the main focus of this game. I used to PvP when I did PnP D&D all the time with my friends.
PvP always has, and always will be the centerpiece of D&D as I know it.
OR.....
We can all agree that both PvE and PvP are important aspects of an MMO and are needed to keep the player base satisfied and playing.
The PvE vs PvP vs D&D argument is old and stale, get over it, its an MMO first, and its based on D&D. Stop trolling, leave PvP alone.
My advice to you Kaiser is that you should enjoy the content you have, and not try and smear the content and the players of that content that you do not enjoy.
BTW, once again (Its been covered OVER AND OVER) this update was an attempt to bring balance to PvE! So YOUR camp is what messed everythign up, both PvP AND PvE.
Get your facts straight sir
That CW would've gotten kills faster with ray of frost instead of magic missile.
But yeah like I mentioned above, the bulk of the damage is pretty much regardless of GS. Any CW that can avoid being focused or is playing against scrubs will kill a lot of people.
That video reminded me why I never play ranged classes in any game
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
This is a small percentage of the player base, most of which are so new to the game they do not even frequent the forums. Most of us are geared in the 14k-17k range and know how the game works and plays. Making excuses for OP classes just because they were fun that way is not going to change the fact GWF were gods for far to long. You've been nerfed back to normal deal with it!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Yep. Active CWs were reporting ludicrous damage output prior to Mod 4 going live. GFs were reporting that their guard was blooking a bare minimum amount of CCs. Everyone was reporting that CWs were wrecking them in PVP with ease. What people cautioned against on the Preview Shard is now a reality.
What is going on now, especially in PVP, was brought to the attention of the devs before Mod 4 went live. It would have been simple for the devs to rollback the offending powers, feats and mechanics and then dated them for a later release instead of having the forums explode with ''Plz nerf'' and a ''We told you so'' threads and comments and a week spent working on fixes and nerfs.
Yo Rip how long will it take for you get over the GWFs, our GFs are awesome now cant we just play them and enjoy the game? I see many people still acting as if the GWFs was not already super nerfed. Get on with the program and stop living in the past. Just for folks like you who excuse any current imbalance with the " GWFs were so OP " card I'll slot a blue dragon glyph on my GWF in PVP, to HAMSTER ya off even more.
As for the CW players who mindlessly exploit the current power of the class I'll leave this food for thought. Look at the GWF class, see how everybody hates it and what nerfs it suffered thanks to that hate. You get the picture ? Now put your CW in that same picture because the longer the current wizards go untouched the greater the hate/nerf will be.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Sounds great in theory, if you are looking purely class v class with similar gear. But this game does a super **** job at matching, fresh players against players in full PvP gear or even just purely on item score its totally one sided. yeah, sure thing classes will be weaker and stronger vs another class, thats fine , but at least try to put players against the same lvl of players.
I just returned to the game being my fav race / class both got released , thought I would have a crack at pvp only to have my whole team be destroyed by 1 GWF 16/0/7 was his end KDR, not only was he able to kill me from start to finish without me being able to doa **** thing , he also went 4 on 1 and lost about 1/3 of his life.
Yeah sure, maybe you could have owned him on 5 different toons, and I am happy for you if you could but lets be real here that guy should have never been matched against fresh players, might not be a class balance issue but it sure as **** is a match maker issue.
The experience left both me and the friend I was playing with feel that PvP was just pointless now if you don't have the gear or don't want to afk bot the points. That isn't how you want new players to feel coming into a game. Now I can list numerous games on many platforms that use an endlessly smarter matching system than this.
I agree the balance is probibly not in the classes so calling for nerfs is not the best way but HAMSTER would it kill the Dev team to make a balanced matching system and stop all the issues dead?
the problem is how can a cw with no weapon enchant and a 9k gs deal massive damage and dot like that?
smells fishy right?
I explained it. Spell storm and assailant are going to hit for about as much regardless of your gear. Same thing is true with combat HR. They changed quite a few feats on classes to be a % of weapon damage, and weapon damage doesn't change that much at level 60.
A 20k CW would be killing people at about the same speed as this guy.
Gear helps CWs with survivability, which this guy didn't have to worry about cause he was fighting scrubs.
The changes greatly help new CWs that at least know how to spec. On the flipside, there's not all that much a geared CW can do to increase damage significantly.
2. AS class types expand, its becoming abundantly clear they should move a 5 vs 5 to a 10 vs 10 arena. Why? Because when you expand the pool , you allow room for more unique builds, vs just always optimal pathing.
3. I want to point out that MANY of us not only tested, but begged the devs not to do what they did, mod 3 was as CLOSE to balanced amongst the majority of the played classes as we have seen in this game.
This is what they shouldve done if they listened to actual reason.
1. Buff the GF.
2. Fix Roar.
3. Turn HR armour and healing down slightly, but keep constrictive arrow.
4. Fix control effects on wizard, the crazy adjustments.. argh.
5. Allow TR flexibility, INCREASE damage and some survivilabity with tradeoff on Perma stealthing.
6. FIX the dc feat lines, worst in the game, with lots of lacked synergy OR bare minimal increases, which ALL have been either nerfed, or destroyed due to the double whammy of rightouesness and healing depression (let alone getting shadowtouched )
This wouldve brought the balance ever closer. What they did was ridiculous, what they did was listen to the far extremes and implemented them, I have to say , this was warned about over and over by alot reasonable players.
REGARDLESS of the above, there ARE things that have to be adjusted ASAP, like the Glyph issue.
I want to point out one simple rule that should be implemented.
THAT a person given specific feedback on a type of class, SHOULD have leveled one on live, 1-60 and done around 100 dom matches, this would solve so much negative, ridicoulous, over the top feedback that is given.
Too many people care about their class alone, which is ruining the game for alot of us who like to play 4-5 different ones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmvQeL9DAzc (Jul 15 Mod3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSQjSfpAOPQ (Aug 18 Mod4)
So if you think me as a PvPer is causing the downfall of this game then I'm gonna say that you as a Whatever the **** you are, are causing the downfall of this game by crying to the devs that the CWs shouldn't be nerfed when they obviously need to be tuned down so they can't complete this dungeon with 2 people. "They're over-gearing the content" 15k is not over-gearing the content. So please explain to me how only the PvP community is causing the downfall.
This second paragraph is for how incompetent you are in a PvP aspect of the game along with your other fellow PvEers.
So what's broken? Please tell me. You need to look at the ****ing feedback threads before coming here to make a **** fool out of yourself. The CWs are broken in PvP.. Were they broken last module? NO, why'd they get changed? Because you ****ing PvEers are abusing the content because they were ****ing OP in PVE NOT PVP. Wilds Med? US TESTING THE **** OUT GOT IT NERFED BECAUSE IT WAS TOO MUCH. GWF DR? AGAIN US TESTING THE **** GOT IT BUFFED BACK UP. How dare you tell me that "if we helped test on the shard server and reported bugs quickly we would not be suffering" Because once again we're suffering because you PvE players were ABSUING THE CONTENT. Dragon Glyphs? You couldn't even test that **** on preview so is that our fault? NO. The whole reason anything is ****ing wrong with this module is because the devs didn't LISTEN to when we told them that SS and EOTS was to ****ing much. Instead they listened to the incompetent CW PvEers who were afraid that they may not be OP in PvE.
You sit the **** down and listen to what I said up there. YOU CONTENT ABUSERS ARE RUINING THE GAME. The people who decided to be noble and create 2-Man GWF and 2-Man CW videos of them completing epic dungeons have as much responsibility for this **** as the ones that abused their OPness in PvP.
One PvEer who's got it right just a few changes. "Maintain the PvP portion of the game" For the simple fact that we wouldn't be living in this hell hold of CWs if the content abusers wouldn't have abused the content.
Another edit "you have massive qq from the WHOLE community" Don't think you can make the PvEers come off as sweet little angels. Because the CWs were crying about not being as OP in a dungeon as they were before, I put on a skit for you because you're just that special.
Devs:CW's are getting nerfed because they're OP sorry
PvE CWs: NOOOO DEVS DON'T NERF US BECAUSE OF PvP
Devs: Are you mother ****ers incompetent? You're not even OP in PvP you're OP in PvE
PvE CWs: NOO THAT'S NOT FAIR PvPers DESERVE BLAME YOU HATE US
Devs: Okay fine stop ****ing crying you guys are getting buffed back up
PvE CWs: YAAAAAAS
Finally, someone found something that actually was the fault of PvPers.. I mean it has no reason in this thread because OP is talking about Mod3 and 4 but okay I'll give you this one.
I actually think the complete opposite. You're such a dumb *** that I just HAD to quote you twice, you set yourself up for this trap "leave all of us playing the game it was intended in peace"..Because it was intended to complete the epic dungeons 2-Man.. We were actually close to balance in PvP until you and the rest of your content abusers changed the whole CW class.
I'm so sick of you PvEers I swear. I was reading each post and laughing while reading, look and saw how almost EVERY SINGLE PvPer who commented was humble, said nothing rude, just stated some wrong things about it. You see that's the difference between us PvPers and you PvEers, we stay on the **** we know while you try to tell the world what's right and what's wrong. I if anyone hate the elitist attitude of the PvPers but in my little time in joining the forums (Because I only have a couple of PvE friends, now I know why) The PvE attitude is worse. It's disgusting, you feel like you should have the world because it's all yours, you decide that you have the right to talk about something that you know **** about and it's sad. Just like our elitist attitude it's most of you that have it not all but it's disgusting.If you don't like us then you stay on your side and we'll stay on ours. So If I want to find the person who is "Breaking the Game" I'll look in the mirror as soon as all of you do the same. I'm someone who knows that we're all ONE community with just different likings, but know I've had enough.
This comment can't be sent to the lower depth since I barely broke any rules and I'm just expressing my opinion, If this comment is sent to the lower depths then the whole thread needs to follow it...
Yep its quite awesome as it is, a CW can go full tank with 0 offensive stats and still dish enough damage to melt a GF in seconds. The Cryptic motto is " Break it before make it.. then break it some more"
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Something that might help would be to change these feats/spell storm to scale off power instead of weapon damage. At least then if you get melted it's because the guy was geared and built for offense. Make the current damage require a buttload of power to pull off.
Yes, of course stop threads about history then, talking about how fun the game was when it was only fun for 2 classes!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Does that mean we get to be super OP in PVP for 2 whole mods like GWFs were? Man Mod 6 is going to suck.
I do think GWFs were nerfed but it's a weird kind of nerf because they have about the same damage, a little lower, but cc-immunity is off the charts. DR is down (unless your playing sent, then it's up). I feel for you guys then I run across a geared/skilled GWF and I get owned.
So like: Mod 1 big damage TRs, Mod2 IV GWFs, Mod3 HRs+unnerfed armor, current CWs, near future OP GFs, and near future OP DCs
Every class will have their toys back and probably less room for cries since it'll be "OP" vs "OP" vs "OP". Rather than "OP" vs normal classes.
Butters TR PVP
I think I love you. I am a PvPer mainly my self - have to do those dailys though (sigh, can we get rid of dailys by the way?). Have been ever since the game started. PvE is fun, but it is the same thing over and over. I know you could say the same for PvP 2 maps, 1 game mode. But every time it is different!
I exclusively played a CW from release all the way up until now. I also have a TR(Combat WhisperKnife) which is my secondary main character. And a newly 60 GWF (Int and Recovery based) I enjoy making weird builds and getting them to work. I refuse to play my CW in pvp now because it really takes no skill, just as I stopped playing my GWF during Mod 3 because it was just boringly too easy. I am a MoF and not an Oppressor on my CW, still I feel really overpowered, because I am used to playing versus the other classes as they were in Mod 3. Mod 3 CW wasn't in the best spot. We needed a little bit of love for PvP but over all it was fun to be a CW because it actually required some amount of skill if you wanted to be good.
PvE and PvP are both still imbalanced. I blame it mainly on all of the extra goodies the Devs keep adding to the game. Sets with ridiculous effects, artifacts that shouldn't exist and enchants that make it derp derp easy to do whatever.
I am the kind of player that avoids whatever build is the current Meta as if it would give me every STD known to man. You know that what ever build everyone is flocking to is going to be eventually nerfed because it is, at its core, OP or rather, imbalanced, in some way.
Don't put all of your eggs in one basket. Don't put all of your efforts in to gearing and attaining the perfect stats for an obviously OP build that will be nerfed. You are only setting yourselves up for a lot of disappointment.
Sadly I know most people won't listen to this. I guess most people can't admit to themselves when they are only making a class to win because it is easy mode. Just think of all the GWFs that started flooding in to the game after they got their love. Before that, remember how many TR's there used to be? And then how many Pathfinder HR's we started to see? And now it is happening with CW's.
We have seen this kind of thing in every Module, varying between classes. There is always 1 or 2 classes that are deemed way too OP in PvE or PvP. Just remember what happened to TR's, over and over again. While some of these nerfs were justified, some of them went a little too far. I hope they don't end up destroying CW's because it is still one of my favorite classes. But they need to not make it so Easy Mode. A true CW doesn't want it easy! They want to use their skill's and reaction time in tandem with spacial awareness to control and damage whom ever they deem necessary at that given moment. Not melting everything in front of you with complete and utter total lock down.
No class should even have the potential to lock someone down until death. Even when they way out gear you. The mechanics need to be set up in a way that completely disallow this to happen.
My suggestion: Give CC's their same time duration, but give them a damage or %HP ceiling. If target player who is CC'ed takes x% of their HP in damage then CC ends instantly. Or if they take 3000 damage then CC breaks. These are just random examples to show what I mean. CC is the biggest problem when it comes to balancing anything in an MMO. More so for PVP though, because the mobs from your dungeon runs aren't going to flood the forums saying that your party is too OP and they need to be nerfed.
CC's will always be the bane of balance.
While PvPing on my TR I see all of these CW's come back out of nowhere. In Mod 3 I would rarely see any CW's in domination matches. I really detest the whole FoTM movements that happen over and over. Stop flocking to whatever is the current OP build/class. Pick the classes you like and have fun playing. You will become so much better, you won't need to rely on broken bull**** to win or get kills.
I know there are other PvPers out there that feel the same way as I do. Those of us who can openly admit when something is OP and broken. And yes we get mad about it! This game, to us, IS PvP. When we are getting killed very quickly by people that are under geared and lack any skill that the class requires because of stupidly broken OP builds/bugs/whatever it is maddening. Mostly due to these people thinking that they are actually good.
Let's look at it from a PvE standpoint here:
Imagine running a dungeon that you were way over the gear score for. But no matter how well you played, 90% of the time you lose. Would you complain about that? Or would that feel fair and just be classified as whining or needing to l2p?
TL;DR
FotM Class builds = next on the nerf chopping block - so why waste your time with it? Stop flocking to the easiest thing!!!
Let's all stop pretending we don't know that we are OP when our class is OP - you aren't as skilled as you think you are, nor am I
Crowd Control will continue to be the bane of proper balance. No one should even have the possibility or potential to lock someone down until death.
I really think the Assailing force feat should just be removed (and my highest gearscore character is a CW!), it really doesn't fit in with what an Oppressor was originally at all.
PvE and PvP effect each other in terms of balance. It will continue like this forever until Cryptic (if ever) gets around to adding more code to make things work differently in PvP than they do in PvE.
Ad some kind of a governing facet to certain powers and the way all CCs work.
If player is CC'ed, the CC will break once the player takes X% of their HP in damages. If they aren't damaged enough to break the CC then it will last the regular duration.
On top of that add diminishing returns to Control for PVP ONLY.
Overall, Cryptic should add the necessary code to allow these different laws/rules to take place inside of PvP and not in PvE.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
I think there would still be a lot of whining, because fights wouldn't last long enough to play out in a proper way. Whoever got the first attack would win. So people would cry about TR's all over again because they specialize in getting that first hit and picking when and who to attack.
I see your logic though. If everyone is OP, then OP = the new normal hence it will all be normal vs normal.
The biggest fault with this current CW OPness lies in the feats given by the control tree. Why they gave Oppressor tree such a ridiculously good damage Capstone feat is beyond me, it really doesn't follow the logic behind the class. But more to the point, it doesn't fit the tree that is supposed to specialize in control. I miss my 3 chill stacks from Chill Strike and 5 from Ice Storm.
When people are going to the control tree to get the best damage you know something somewhere went horribly wrong.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Actually, this would work if HD didn't exist. That way DC's could actually do something beneficial to the team.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
I also hate FotM builds and classes, I play a Whisperknife TR and I play it because it's fun to me, not because I want to stomp others, people who just play a specific class/build because it's OP make me want to throw up a bit.
Sometimes I wonder if class balance is what the devs are looking for or not.
For example, very, very few players move while fighting. I see 90% of players i meet in PvP standing still. CWs suck now even with OP damage cause they just sit there, press the buttons, when you reach them they teleport-teleport-teleport and then they die. Same with many GWFs facetanking everything and moving only to close the gap or run away. Same with GFs, only blocking-cc chain/ DPS, block again...very few actually run-blocl-run-block when in a melee fight with a GWF. If you look at pretty much every video of experienced PvPers, be they CW, HRs, TRs, DCs, GWF...they move. They not just dodge, they bunnyhop and move the whole time.
With my old CW, for example, i used to dance bunnyhopping around GWFs, forcing them to spam threat rush. TR lagged, no damage and takedown missed 90% of the times. They could try FLS/ Roar and that's when i teleported. GWFs used to stop and aim a fraction of second before using these skills. Just anticipating that moment was a good way to kite them, even if iron vanguard. I don't see any CW doing this not even now. It was good also to be able to put enfleebement on tab and tactically neutralize the enemy creating more problems to my team. Only thing that was in need of a little boost was the ability to dodge/ defend (shield buff, CC buff) when a melee class decided to target you.
Or DCs standing there, eating the damage and shifting only when you reach them, while good DCs were always moving and shifting through their mates to mess the aiming of the enemies targeting them.
Players can't adapt to the "action" part of neverwinter PvP and end up feeling underpowered and complaining.
When i started playing my GWF i used to lose to perma TRs without even landing a hit. I practiced, learned, and with experience i can now often outplay them and anticipate their moves, and permastealth is pretty much not a problem but i feel it as just a fight of skills (TR skill to kite me, my skill to catch him).
Also, many players act as if disengaging to heal and come back is some kind of bad behaviour. You serious? You're just plain stupid if you think that just die and go to campfire after a long cooldown, when you could disengage and heal/ go to another node fast, is a smart move. It's just a dumb move. Skill also means you can judge a fight and decide if it's better to die and respawn or to disengage and recover. Sometimes you have to fight till you die to buy time, sometimes it's better to disengage and go help somewhere else or come back later.
Also, another thing few players do is, for example, using hotenhow columns to troll multiple enemies/ buy time or hit-and-run. I do it a lot on my destroyer. It's a good tactic.
Balance is good, but some people keep complaining, even in module 4, about, for example, GWFs or perma TRs, just cause they are lazy, they want a button to just counter everything the enemy does. That's not skill.
I like how GWF destroyer is now in PvP with the right build. Squishy sure, but playing smart it's A LOT more fun than a regeneration sentinel from module 1, or a IV sentinel from Mod2, or a IV Roar destro from module 3. GWFs (well, some of them) could adapt and still do good even after the nerfs/ rework.
Balance is not just up to the devs. It's also up to the players who need to learn to play their class, learn the enemy and learn how to move in PvP.
They buffed the damage in the oppressor tree because nobody played it - at least not in PvE. This game is a DPS race and any build with low DPS is shunned.
In fact the 'go DPS or go home' game mechanic is at the root of a lot of the issues for balance. You can't have a control wizard who does low DPS because it won't work for solo PvE or PuG PvP. Levelling a DC is painful for this reason.
You can't have characters with low DPS in a game where only DPS matters.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Hey reiwulf, I remember you from my WK Bladeslinger theory crafting thread! Glad to see your still keeping up with what you know you like.
I have a sneaking suspicion that they keep tipping the scales in different favors, in regards to class balance, to keep people having to sink some more money for more enchants and other things for their newly made and quickly leveled FotM OP bull-spit.
@xtraordinary91
HD was a weird thing to put in the game in the first place. I feel like it was a quick fix to problems that didn't have much to do with DC's in the first place. But it effected the DC more than anything else.
@everyone
It is up to us though, the community of Neverwinter, the entire player base - to be honest with each other, ourselves and the devs. If something is OP don't try to deny it. Accept that it is OP and think of a way that it could be toned back with out making it become completely laughable. I will always hate the FotM crowd, with an undying loathsome passion. Let's just nip the OP stuff in the butt as fast as possible so it doesn't continue to rot every ones experience in game. All CW's needed was a little buff in the control department. My biggest complaint through out Mod 3 was that other classes had better CC skills, more damage, and more longevity during a battle. Not sure why they thought, "Let's give them more control, and also let them be able to completely destroy people at the same exact time"
With every Module and patch that comes our way, let's voice a unanimous honest opinion and demand proper changes in a timely manner, together.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter