A GWF Sentinel needs to hit a target to max his defensive cabability and he wont do that while dangling like a rag doll in midair. Really, without max deflect a Sent isnt all that much tougher than a tanky Destroyer while his damage is by far lower. And what about GFs ? They get CCed thru their shield and killed in seconds even with 40K HP and 45-50% DR ? It has happened even to my 17.3K GF.
You cannot really CC GWFs properly, don't even think you can. They sprint all over, then go Unstoppable. Also you MUST tank the Intimidation procs, which means that without a very high HP CW, you lose guaranteed. It is possible. I've seen it in GG already, one dude hunted me for about 40 seconds, while I procced numerous assailants and storm spell on him that would have one shotted another squishy. There were some teammates unloading on him as well lol, he still stood his ground and never gave up the chase. You guys can give credits to Sinbad for the build, he deserves it. All you have to do now is use it.
Now about GFs.
There are 2 types.
The good ones, that are EXTREMELY dangerous and can melt my 40K HP in one go if they catch me. There are less than 10 in the game.
And the really bad ones that plant shield and try to tank through your damage, too scared to try to CC you and kill you. They end up frozen, Entangled and dead pretty fast.
The situation has reversed, in the sense that before CW had to play at 100% skills to match up good GFs and GWFs, and there were less than 5 CWs able to do it (sometimes), and never on the really good/geared G(W)Fs. Now a GWF or GF has to be extremely well built and skilled to match CWs. I dislike this because before skilled differentiated good from bad CWs quite easily. Now it's a matter of build and rotation for a bad CW to be effective.
Bad players should never be able to make up for their weaknesses through class strength.
Bad players should never be able to make up for their weaknesses through class strength.
Agree 100%. Same can be said about the GWFs of mod 3. I just hope the CWs don't get to keep their current state of easy strength for as long as GWFs did.
also add the fact that people shouldn't be able to overcompensate their lack of skill through high end enchants of all types, sadly that won't change lol - mainly refers to sub 60pvp
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
I can assure you this is very far from the truth. A rank 9-10 CW with about 16-17.9k GS depending on gear, perfect vorpal and the Eots/SS, good rotation etc. will take a considerable amount of time to kill a good sentinel. Killing is by no means guaranteed - it is a very close and good fight that will last considerably more than a few seconds.
Put these people on a node, as 1vs1s should be fought, and even with the old Assailant, a CW will be at a disadvantage.
There are builds and builds. GWFs have the option to tank through the CW DPS, there's no question about it.
If you can post a video of this happening. Cause all i see in PvP right now is CWs melting people like crazy, even geared tanks. Using only their little ray of death. Plus they also use the broken glyph sometimes to top their own DPS.
And in domination a CW is not at node range. But a lot farther than that. Should i ask the CWs to please start attacking me only when i get at node range? Nodes are important in 1v1 only if you want a "fair" 1v1 with a TR, to avoid him/ her going away to recover (a 1v1 would never end).
CWs DPS is out of hand right now. There's no question about it. Glyphs too.
Not saying it's far from balance. But right now, definetely too much DPS on a simple at will.
Bad players should never be able to make up for their weaknesses through class strength.
If you really believe this, then you should not be playing this game. Because since there are different classes, with different abilities, there will always be one class that is OP compared to another. Which is the OP's original point I think. So a "bad player" playing the "OP class" will, inevitably, make up for his/her weaknesses through class strength. That is unavoidable in a game like this. And demanding balance among the classes is really just nothing more than requesting that all the classes be homogenized to be exactly the same. I think this happened to another game (forget the name right now) - it had different classes, each with different abilities, but each ability ended up being the exact same thing among the different class, just given a different name. No class had an ability that was unique for that particular class.
So in THAT type of game, yeah, bad players can't hide behind class OPness in order to do well.
If you can post a video of this happening. Cause all i see in PvP right now is CWs melting people like crazy, even geared tanks. Using only their little ray of death. Plus they also use the broken glyph sometimes to top their own DPS.
And in domination a CW is not at node range. But a lot farther than that. Should i ask the CWs to please start attacking me only when i get at node range? Nodes are important in 1v1 only if you want a "fair" 1v1 with a TR, to avoid him/ her going away to recover (a 1v1 would never end).
CWs DPS is out of hand right now. There's no question about it. Glyphs too.
Not saying it's far from balance. But right now, definetely too much DPS on a simple at will.
Yeah DPS is too much now. But even with the crazy DPS, GWF has a build that can tank through it, I first saw it on Preview, and now I seen it live in GG and it works very good. It's a matter of luck getting to record people with this build, but I will try to.
BTW glyphs were not involved in this fight. I stopped playing Domination because of them (and idiotic CW overbuffing) and only run GG now. Will see how things are after this patch.
If you really believe this, then you should not be playing this game. Because since there are different classes, with different abilities, there will always be one class that is OP compared to another. Which is the OP's original point I think. So a "bad player" playing the "OP class" will, inevitably, make up for his/her weaknesses through class strength. That is unavoidable in a game like this. And demanding balance among the classes is really just nothing more than requesting that all the classes be homogenized to be exactly the same. I think this happened to another game (forget the name right now) - it had different classes, each with different abilities, but each ability ended up being the exact same thing among the different class, just given a different name. No class had an ability that was unique for that particular class.
So in THAT type of game, yeah, bad players can't hide behind class OPness in order to do well.
Is that what you really want?
OP was saying that no matter how good you think you are even vs your own class, there will always be someone you just cannot kill.
Not class not being able to ever kill another class. Again, my comment was based on the diversity of skills and powers that we all choose from, or in most cases don't choose from. Most classes have the opportunity to use high damage encounters , medium damage encounters with small cc, light damage encounters with large cc, encounters with no damage and no cc but other bonus effects to assist the user. This is the combination lock to your wins or losses. Based on what you choose and what your enemy is using in skills PLUS what gear you are using vs the gear your enemy is using PLUS a small bit of chance = your wins or losses. You can tweak a few things along the way in builds to make sure your chance is higher or lower in certain areas.
But the end result is the same. There will always be someone you just cannot kill with your current setup.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited August 2014
Dragon glyphs add one more set of numbers to our combination of things to offset what little bits of balance we thought we had.
Some glyphs once activated will destroy stealth instantly.
Some glyphs once activated will make an enemy melt instantly.
Some glyphs once activated have hardly any effect on the owner or others.
White dragon, Red Dragon, Blue Dragon, Black Dragon, Green Dragon... just wait and see what happens.
Blue is being fixed now...
My guess is next red will be altered...
Then black will be nerfed..
Then people will figure out that green will prevent anyone from stealth HAMSTER you...
Then people will see that white is almost pointless.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
pvp isnt about 1v1, pvp is about class roles, there are classes that are made for 1v1 and classes that work better in teamfights, if you take a teamfight class and buff it so it can 1v1 classes that are made for dueling you get op classes
gwf and melee hunter are classes made for dueling, its their job they should be best at it, but they should be worse in teamfights, lacking utility
warlock, cw and ranged hr are dps classes they do a %HAMSTER@ton of damage but need support classes to keep enemies away from them, OR cw should have much lower dps, but have more survivability and be moved from a dps class to a support class, atm they have the cc of a support class paired with dps of a damage class
gf and dc are support classes, they are there to help dps classes to do their job
tr is assassin, its his job to remove squishies(not talking about that boring sissy build that should be removed from game), finish off running enemies, but should get their teeth kicked in if they try to 1v1 gwf, melee hr or gf
pvp isnt about 1v1, pvp is about class roles, there are classes that are made for 1v1 and classes that work better in teamfights, if you take a teamfight class and buff it so it can 1v1 classes that are made for dueling you get op classes
And once again - this is a nice idea but DOES NOT WORK if you have PvP with random team composition. Random teams means all-purpose classes. Simple.
they can add tags to classes and make sure every team has at least 1 brawler, 1 support and 1 dps, then add the last 2 classes depending on whats available, like dungeon finder
they can add tags to classes and make sure every team has at least 1 brawler, 1 support and 1 dps, then add the last 2 classes depending on whats available, like dungeon finder
And how long would it take for the queue to pop when you combine that system with ELO?
While I like the idea presented there, the main reason it would never happen is exactly what twilightwatchman pointed out. People are impatient, and they don;t want to wait around for a long time even if it would mean a more equal matching. Especially the people that are "the top pvper's" Those kids have no patience nor do I feel most of them really want anything close to balanced.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
At least, i recognice it. You, on the other hand, will not do it even when you cry all along the forum due you lost vs GWF-players with a not so good builds even when you had a BROKEN class on mod 2 and an OP Class on mod 3... . So, who is the ****?
Is really easy to identify good players from bad players just reading them after oneself understands a bit of data. .
You call everyone that doesn't agree with you a bad player?
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
At least, i recognice it. You, on the other hand, will not do it even when you cry all along the forum due you lost vs GWF-players with a not so good builds even when you had a BROKEN class on mod 2 and an OP Class on mod 3... . So, who is the ****?
Is really easy to identify good players from bad players just reading them after oneself understands a bit of data. .
So wait, now you're saying CW was OP in mod3, not just good?
If you're referring to HR, I'd tell you now like I'd tell you then, HR was definitely OP in mod3. Even as OP as GWFs were.
But yeah, I'm basically done here. I'm sorry you had trouble with CW on your GWF in the previous mods. You were one of the very few that did.
So wait, now you're saying CW was OP in mod3, not just good?
If you're referring to HR, I'd tell you now like I'd tell you then, HR was definitely OP in mod3. Even as OP as GWFs were.
But yeah, I'm basically done here. I'm sorry you had trouble with CW on your GWF in the previous mods. You were one of the very few that did.
There is no way he has issue with CW's in mod 3, unless he was fighting 17k GS CWs! With Roar bugged and IBS auto critting for massive damage, unstoppable bugging extra hp return and 80% DR? No way!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
There is no way he has issue with CW's in mod 3, unless he was fighting 17k GS CWs! With Roar bugged and IBS auto critting for massive damage, unstoppable bugging extra hp return and 80% DR? No way!
See how easy is to recognice bad players just by the way the write on forums? As i said, is really easy due they do not understand the data they have in front of them. . Also, seems like you have some problems to understand english due i have never said a thing such as you suggested here, but, if you insist, i faced a lot of CW and vs good ones i had hard times the same as they did vs me but i could beat them as the did against me too... ams, i forgot to say that vs good players/matches i did not used Roar. Now, vs noobs CW-players... well, sorry, vs **** PLAYERS, piece of cake.
And I never hunted DCs down on my OP GWF, they are nice folks who care for others so I left them alone... Dude, nuff fairytales, you're loosing credibility fast. Everyone used Roar or FLS or both together. The worst ( for my opponents ) combo was Roar/FLS/Takedown.. perma CC. Ya we did that as GWFs, we had the tools we did it. Too late trying to save your forum honour by claiming you never used Roar vs good players. Thats a load of HAMSTER
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
There is no way he has issue with CW's in mod 3, unless he was fighting 17k GS CWs! With Roar bugged and IBS auto critting for massive damage, unstoppable bugging extra hp return and 80% DR? No way!
Hey GF, stick to the class you know. There is no such thing as IBS autocrit and never was. GWFs simply have high crit chance, something I, as both a GWF and GF player know and you have no idea of.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Yeah DPS is too much now. But even with the crazy DPS, GWF has a build that can tank through it, I first saw it on Preview, and now I seen it live in GG and it works very good. It's a matter of luck getting to record people with this build, but I will try to.
BTW glyphs were not involved in this fight. I stopped playing Domination because of them (and idiotic CW overbuffing) and only run GG now. Will see how things are after this patch.
Almost.
There should be some slight rock/paper/scissors cases, but not to the extent it exists in Neverwinter.
PvP results, and even PvE! should be determined almost entirely by PLAYER SKILL, COMMUNICATION, AWARENESS etc.
Sure, in a FPS.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
There is no way he has issue with CW's in mod 3, unless he was fighting 17k GS CWs! With Roar bugged and IBS auto critting for massive damage, unstoppable bugging extra hp return and 80% DR? No way!
Even after the patch, still much to do. Glyphs still being abused. Cws need the whole offensive part reverted to module 3 and keep the difensive and cc buffs. New shield, severe reaction and their current cc are enough. Give them back old shard and get rid of the ray of frost+ DoTs HAMSTER.
No there is no Rock Paper Scissors in an FPS (well maybe a little bit in certain FPS games).
The Rock/Paper/Scissors analogy was first used in MMO games and is a common reference to the idea that there should be counter classes where when given equal skill/gear one specific class will most likely lose to another specific class.
This is an essential principal of organized, balanced PvP. When this principle is carried over into an MMO's PvP play it creates dynamic skill based TEAM play which requires players to decide what each member of their team should be doing, and where they should be doing it.
If you had your players in the wrong spot, or the other team was more efficient in their rotations, you lost. And you lost because you didn't play well as a TEAM.
The problems arises when you have a Rock beats everything scenario which is what is happening in Neverwinter over and over again, so that class gets stacked and its GG.
Comments
You cannot really CC GWFs properly, don't even think you can. They sprint all over, then go Unstoppable. Also you MUST tank the Intimidation procs, which means that without a very high HP CW, you lose guaranteed. It is possible. I've seen it in GG already, one dude hunted me for about 40 seconds, while I procced numerous assailants and storm spell on him that would have one shotted another squishy. There were some teammates unloading on him as well lol, he still stood his ground and never gave up the chase. You guys can give credits to Sinbad for the build, he deserves it. All you have to do now is use it.
Now about GFs.
There are 2 types.
The good ones, that are EXTREMELY dangerous and can melt my 40K HP in one go if they catch me. There are less than 10 in the game.
And the really bad ones that plant shield and try to tank through your damage, too scared to try to CC you and kill you. They end up frozen, Entangled and dead pretty fast.
The situation has reversed, in the sense that before CW had to play at 100% skills to match up good GFs and GWFs, and there were less than 5 CWs able to do it (sometimes), and never on the really good/geared G(W)Fs. Now a GWF or GF has to be extremely well built and skilled to match CWs. I dislike this because before skilled differentiated good from bad CWs quite easily. Now it's a matter of build and rotation for a bad CW to be effective.
Bad players should never be able to make up for their weaknesses through class strength.
Agree 100%. Same can be said about the GWFs of mod 3. I just hope the CWs don't get to keep their current state of easy strength for as long as GWFs did.
also add the fact that people shouldn't be able to overcompensate their lack of skill through high end enchants of all types, sadly that won't change lol - mainly refers to sub 60pvp
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
+1
I there are many types of playing styles within each paragon path that will allow us to do very well in pve and pvp situations.
Take time to learn to play (reinvent the wheel)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9AOhPgCNJs
If you can post a video of this happening. Cause all i see in PvP right now is CWs melting people like crazy, even geared tanks. Using only their little ray of death. Plus they also use the broken glyph sometimes to top their own DPS.
And in domination a CW is not at node range. But a lot farther than that. Should i ask the CWs to please start attacking me only when i get at node range? Nodes are important in 1v1 only if you want a "fair" 1v1 with a TR, to avoid him/ her going away to recover (a 1v1 would never end).
CWs DPS is out of hand right now. There's no question about it. Glyphs too.
Not saying it's far from balance. But right now, definetely too much DPS on a simple at will.
If you really believe this, then you should not be playing this game. Because since there are different classes, with different abilities, there will always be one class that is OP compared to another. Which is the OP's original point I think. So a "bad player" playing the "OP class" will, inevitably, make up for his/her weaknesses through class strength. That is unavoidable in a game like this. And demanding balance among the classes is really just nothing more than requesting that all the classes be homogenized to be exactly the same. I think this happened to another game (forget the name right now) - it had different classes, each with different abilities, but each ability ended up being the exact same thing among the different class, just given a different name. No class had an ability that was unique for that particular class.
So in THAT type of game, yeah, bad players can't hide behind class OPness in order to do well.
Is that what you really want?
Yeah DPS is too much now. But even with the crazy DPS, GWF has a build that can tank through it, I first saw it on Preview, and now I seen it live in GG and it works very good. It's a matter of luck getting to record people with this build, but I will try to.
BTW glyphs were not involved in this fight. I stopped playing Domination because of them (and idiotic CW overbuffing) and only run GG now. Will see how things are after this patch.
Almost.
There should be some slight rock/paper/scissors cases, but not to the extent it exists in Neverwinter.
PvP results, and even PvE! should be determined almost entirely by PLAYER SKILL, COMMUNICATION, AWARENESS etc.
OP was saying that no matter how good you think you are even vs your own class, there will always be someone you just cannot kill.
Not class not being able to ever kill another class. Again, my comment was based on the diversity of skills and powers that we all choose from, or in most cases don't choose from. Most classes have the opportunity to use high damage encounters , medium damage encounters with small cc, light damage encounters with large cc, encounters with no damage and no cc but other bonus effects to assist the user. This is the combination lock to your wins or losses. Based on what you choose and what your enemy is using in skills PLUS what gear you are using vs the gear your enemy is using PLUS a small bit of chance = your wins or losses. You can tweak a few things along the way in builds to make sure your chance is higher or lower in certain areas.
But the end result is the same. There will always be someone you just cannot kill with your current setup.
Some glyphs once activated will destroy stealth instantly.
Some glyphs once activated will make an enemy melt instantly.
Some glyphs once activated have hardly any effect on the owner or others.
White dragon, Red Dragon, Blue Dragon, Black Dragon, Green Dragon... just wait and see what happens.
Blue is being fixed now...
My guess is next red will be altered...
Then black will be nerfed..
Then people will figure out that green will prevent anyone from stealth HAMSTER you...
Then people will see that white is almost pointless.
gwf and melee hunter are classes made for dueling, its their job they should be best at it, but they should be worse in teamfights, lacking utility
warlock, cw and ranged hr are dps classes they do a %HAMSTER@ton of damage but need support classes to keep enemies away from them, OR cw should have much lower dps, but have more survivability and be moved from a dps class to a support class, atm they have the cc of a support class paired with dps of a damage class
gf and dc are support classes, they are there to help dps classes to do their job
tr is assassin, its his job to remove squishies(not talking about that boring sissy build that should be removed from game), finish off running enemies, but should get their teeth kicked in if they try to 1v1 gwf, melee hr or gf
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
That's obvious. If you were having so much trouble with your GWF in mod2/3 that you think it was fine, obviously you are asterisk at pvp.
You call everyone that doesn't agree with you a bad player?
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
So wait, now you're saying CW was OP in mod3, not just good?
If you're referring to HR, I'd tell you now like I'd tell you then, HR was definitely OP in mod3. Even as OP as GWFs were.
But yeah, I'm basically done here. I'm sorry you had trouble with CW on your GWF in the previous mods. You were one of the very few that did.
There is no way he has issue with CW's in mod 3, unless he was fighting 17k GS CWs! With Roar bugged and IBS auto critting for massive damage, unstoppable bugging extra hp return and 80% DR? No way!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Yep the dude couldn't fight them. Sad really.
umm.. but that's the whole point of pvp, and in case you hadn't noticed, the forums have now become just an extension of pvp
And I never hunted DCs down on my OP GWF, they are nice folks who care for others so I left them alone... Dude, nuff fairytales, you're loosing credibility fast. Everyone used Roar or FLS or both together. The worst ( for my opponents ) combo was Roar/FLS/Takedown.. perma CC. Ya we did that as GWFs, we had the tools we did it. Too late trying to save your forum honour by claiming you never used Roar vs good players. Thats a load of HAMSTER
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Hey GF, stick to the class you know. There is no such thing as IBS autocrit and never was. GWFs simply have high crit chance, something I, as both a GWF and GF player know and you have no idea of.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Sure, in a FPS.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
*Facepalm*
Jesus Christ man.... I'm embarrassed for you...
No there is no Rock Paper Scissors in an FPS (well maybe a little bit in certain FPS games).
The Rock/Paper/Scissors analogy was first used in MMO games and is a common reference to the idea that there should be counter classes where when given equal skill/gear one specific class will most likely lose to another specific class.
This is an essential principal of organized, balanced PvP. When this principle is carried over into an MMO's PvP play it creates dynamic skill based TEAM play which requires players to decide what each member of their team should be doing, and where they should be doing it.
If you had your players in the wrong spot, or the other team was more efficient in their rotations, you lost. And you lost because you didn't play well as a TEAM.
The problems arises when you have a Rock beats everything scenario which is what is happening in Neverwinter over and over again, so that class gets stacked and its GG.