I'm glad to see that many experienced CWs agree that the class is OP and that only means bad news for everyone, even them in the future.
I also hate FotM builds and classes, I play a Whisperknife TR and I play it because it's fun to me, not because I want to stomp others, people who just play a specific class/build because it's OP make me want to throw up a bit.
Sometimes I wonder if class balance is what the devs are looking for or not.
Yes, of course stop threads about history then, talking about how fun the game was when it was only fun for 2 classes!
Then we should still be talking about the pre-mod1 era when tene GFs were chain-prone killing every enemy, even tanks, in PvP? No.
They got their nerf, even too much, and people never complained since then.
GWFs got their huge nerf so grow up and get over your butthurt. Or i'll start complaining about how, when i started playing, GFs could chain-prone to death the enemies in 1 rotation.
CWs say they deserve their moment of glory in PvP till the broken/ OP feats/ enchants get fixed. I'd agree IF they were not broken OP for PvE too the whole year and a half since game release, farming dungeons with no need for any other class.
Before GWF got Deep Gash bug and later destroyer tree buff, you could spent 45 minutes/ 1 hour shouting in PE for a party while the chat was asking only for CWs.
Now they can 2-men CN. Call it a nerf.
But once they get in line with the rest of us in PvE, i for sure will not keep bringing up the issue. It'll be past.
GWFs got nerfed quite a lot and PvP destroyer now requires quite some skill to be effective and the whole class is for sure far from being powerful. Other classes are at the top now. So get over it.
They buffed the damage in the oppressor tree because nobody played it - at least not in PvE. This game is a DPS race and any build with low DPS is shunned.
In fact the 'go DPS or go home' game mechanic is at the root of a lot of the issues for balance. You can't have a control wizard who does low DPS because it won't work for solo PvE or PuG PvP. Levelling a DC is painful for this reason.
You can't have characters with low DPS in a game where only DPS matters.
Unless you make tanking and AoE CC really needed. CWs don't need to be top AoE DPSers. That is GWF role. CWs role is to AoE CC and group enemies together AND support AoE DPS. They just got spoiled being both the best AoE DPS AND CC in PvE so now they think they need both. It's not true. Just like GWFs have AoE DPS and low AoE CC, CWs should have only one.
CWs--->AoE CC or AoE DPS
GWF--->AoE DPS or tanking
GF--->aggro and tank to protect the party or DPS support+ off-tank
DC--->healing and buff to protect the party
HRs/TRs--->single target DPS, interchangeable. HR could bring AoE DPS support, but less single target, while TRs could be single target DPS kings.
Depending on the build you can pick different classes. Like a DPS CW to AoE DPS but then you should get short of CC (right now, you get both). Or a tank GWF who can tank more but can't DPS a lot. Or a DPS GF who can help with DPS but should be less reliable at protecting the party. And so on. You can't find a GF, you can perhaps bring a sentinel. More DPS but less protection.
There must be ways to substitute a missing class in PvE, but should be less fast/ optimal than a rainbow party.
SW i don't know what they do. May be Single target DPS/ debuff. IDK.
While there is a Learn2Play factor that can't be ignored, the ease of use for the current CW is just silly. Being rewarded so highly for simply freezing someone is a load of crock.
I do believe that a lot of people probably have a hard time adjusting to the action and reaction involved in NW. I am a lot like you in the sense of staying in there and fighting the things that are difficult for you until you undersatnd how to counter it. Perma stealth TR's for the most part are laughable now. You aren't safe when you are invisible, I will find you and force you out of it and make you pop ITC and totally ruin your whole planned rotation. Same with GWF's back in Mod and before.
Regen Sent back capping? Just keep repeling him off the node over and over. You don;t have to kill someone to turn the game in your favor, but it sure does help.
Roar spamming FLS IBS IV GWF? WEll, they all used the same rotations and were way too easy to predict and react too.
HR Pathfinders? That was tricky but doable.
I agree with the GWF being played differently is super fun and quite effective. My GWF is quite the oddball. All about Action Point gain, recovery + INT, and mobility. It is super fun !!
You can't have characters with low DPS in a game where only DPS matters.
I also agree with this. Overall what matters the most is the damage someone can do - it is also what matters the most when talking about something being OP or needing a nerf or buff. yea CC is super important in PvP and PvE but without the damage to finish the deal it doesn't matter. The fact that you get so much free damage from controlling someone is what makes it OP. Thaum and maybe renegade could do more damage depending on overall build and play styles. But they don't get the heightened control with the free damage for doing so.
I am not trying to cry for nerfs as I've said my highest gear score is on my CW. But I also don't want any class to have too much of an advantage.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
CWs--->AoE CC or AoE DPS
GWF--->AoE DPS or tanking
GF--->aggro and tank to protect the party or DPS support+ off-tank
DC--->healing and buff to protect the party
HRs/TRs--->single target DPS, interchangeable. HR could bring AoE DPS support, but less single target, while TRs could be single target DPS kings.
It would be awesome if it worked like this and that all those roles were useful in dungeons
That's what I think the game should aim for.
you could spent 45 minutes/ 1 hour shouting in PE for a party while the chat was asking only for CWs.
I agree so much, it was almost impossible to get a group (it was 1 GF 1 DC 3 CW, 1 GF 1 DC 2 CW 1 TR; or 3 CW 1 DC 1 TR for the best players, the very old comps).
Hey reiwulf, I remember you from my WK Bladeslinger theory crafting thread! Glad to see your still keeping up with what you know you like.
I have a sneaking suspicion that they keep tipping the scales in different favors, in regards to class balance, to keep people having to sink some more money for more enchants and other things for their newly made and quickly leveled FotM OP bull-spit.
Yes, I'm still rocking the whisperknife, haha! Glad to see other WKs around!
And about GWFs, they were able to take more damage than GFs, to dish more damage than single target DPS classes (also doing damage to many enemies at once), and heal themselves pretty good, I do think they were OP too. I don't think a single class should be able to do all of that at the same time.
I know you want to win. I know you want to dominate everything in your path. But how boring would it be if you always won? Would it even be worth playing?
You are causing the downfall of this game.
No No actually I love domination everything in my path, its not Boring at all winning all the time....honestly..
Just keep in mind your playing an mmo. not a Moba.
You can always play League if you wanna be at a even start of every match you know.
Which ones?? Reg Sent GWF Who would die as soon as they got prone or mod 3 GWF by standing in his/her range attack but kille-able by anyone but DC-class?? Hope you dont meant those GWF builds...".
Not sure what those builds are that you're referring to. I'm referring to the builds that let a GWF kill everybody easily and be super hard to kill at the same time.
I can agree with a lot of what is said in these back and forths. Goods points are made.
But saying Mod 3 CW was balanced with Mod 3 GWF is beyond imagination. saying Mod 3 GWF was balanced at all is silly.
Mod 3 CW didn't need a huge buff, just a fix to their control powers. The other classes being changed in the way they have been in tandem with this increase to control would have been just about perfect though.
Mod 3 IV GWF was kraft mac n Easy. Spamable gap closer, Range AoE prone and Range AoE Cone Interrupt stun with all that beefy defense and damage was just too much. No one should have it good in every which way. And if it isn't going your way just go berserk and sprint away to health pot and mount up and try again. Literally had every advantage. Sword Masters were closer to balanced but still quite **** powerful.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
With this being said, then, tell me, where is the "huge difference" between GWF-class and CW-class?? They just needed 2 propper fixes: ArP after certaing distance from target (more than knew issue) and, as yourself said, some CC fixes... 2 fixed to get a really balanced class.
With GWF-class, would be almost the same: Fix on roar, tone down some damage Frontline surge (but i agree with the change into a stun) fix some bugs ("Steel Grace" is bugged from mod1, it only works on PvE) and you had another balanced class.
The main problem on these 2 classes (mainly, PvE which affected at PvP too) were the OVERGEARED players: A 18k GWF and a 18k CW could clean all Epic T2 dungeons (ToS, Karr, FH, etc) really fast due they were thought as a 10k GS dungeons... What devs should do is to make "legendary" versions of all dungeons (both T1 and T2 + CN, MC and VT) for 16k+ GS players. Just so. Easy solution for everyone on PvE and, for PvP, make a 16k GS TIER band... this way, PuG of mid-lvl60 players (from 11 to 16) would have enjoy PvP a lot more.
The huge difference was fixed for the most part with this Mod, with the exception of the changes that are now plaguing everybody. What I mean is the toning down of GWF effectiveness and HR pathfinder too but they went too far. Like I said GWF was just to effective in PvP Mod 3. AoE CC that was better than the Control Wizards, more life + defense, Control Immunity and Break, really good damage capabilities.
I like a lot of the changes made to GWF and think they are in a good spot now.
CW only needed the control boost as I said. And the changes of prones to stuns was what was really needed. Prones are just too good.
I would love if they would ever do a lock out like you suggest. The super high gear of some people is definitely what makes things go from imbalanced to ridiculously OP in the eyes of players.
I also hope that they implement some code to just govern skills and effects in PvP so we can get them balanced with otu effecting PvE and vice versa.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Not sure what those builds are that you're referring to. I'm referring to the builds that let a GWF kill everybody easily and be super hard to kill at the same time.
And you also think CWs were good in mod3?
Are we playing the same game?
He's playing the same game, but with bad build, bad skills, bad gear.
Not sure what those builds are that you're referring to. I'm referring to the builds that let a GWF kill everybody easily and be super hard to kill at the same time.
And you also think CWs were good in mod3?
Are we playing the same game?
Agreed. But I actually do think CWs were good in mod3... No not the pug ones, the ones that actually served a purpose and didn't try to go home alone. The actually good CWs in premades would know that a perma is there or a HR or a GWF and would get a buddy to stop fighting for a sec and help him clear because CWs were key to clearing all 3. So what if they weren't as good at 1vs1 then the rest of the classes.. I mean did you really expect them to be? If Cryptic gave each class the best 1vs1 capabilities then where would any specific class stand out? Now CWs are the best at 1vs1 and the best at control.
Were CW's good in mod 3? Sure. On par with other classes? Not quite. Just like the GF, and now they're both overbuffed as hell. There just wasn't enough competent players playing those classes, most would play whatever is FoTM. I remember like 3 CW's who were worth their own weight in poo in mod3 and like 1 GF.
running around and never capping lool
which top tr did u kill 1v1
i know that build.......u just leave
when real tr comes on cap
so before calling out any tr u should proly beat one 1v1 with
full hp ,not coming to only daily him
I already know that those videos were so much for you to understand. Do not worry, the people whose understood them agreed with me... but, if you want to know what i wanted to show on those videos, , you just need to read a bit on these forums, even users who didnt watched them explained them. :-)
If you would stop making ridiculous statements about all kinds of stuff, you have my promise I will never mention this stuff again.
CWs would have seemed balanced to you in Module 3, but to a GOOD GWF, with BiS gear, a CW was almost nothing, no threat. The only power CW had back then was chaining dailies that crit. A GWF could interrupt a shard use each time they would use Icy Rays (so no rotation), and a Repel user had to deal with all kinds of deflects and resists.
Could a CW still win? Yes. By hitting nebulous numbers with Ice Knife and stuff. Was about RNG.
Was a CW good in the hands of a skilled player in premades? Not good, but downright amazing as DPS support and debuffer. But way too weak in 1vs1.
Everybody knows now CWs were overbuffed. Assailant will be tweaked. Have patience and we will see how PvP looks after. In the meantime, please stop making ridiculous statements. Thanks.
i would remove mod 3 CW, as they were as balanced as GWF-class were and, maybe, GF, due they could bring GWF-players down alone due the prone chain they had. The main a biggest problem here is, as Pando said and i stated earlier than him: "this is a Player side problem whose want to make it a game side problem".
As 18k cw that finished whole pvp campaign in mod 3 I can say that CWs were not even close to equally geared GWF. When it came to 1 v 1 it was really hard for CW to burst down 45k+ hp unstoppable truck, GWF just rushed CW to death. It was possible but 1 wrong move for CW meant instant death. Of course there were outstanding CWs out there, with 40+k hp, legendary artifacts and all ranks 10, but it was not easy for them. Mod 3 CW was decent but very challenging.
Mod 4 brought some boosts for CW and people just need to get used to it and deal with it. CWs are still squishy as hell, but I would not say they're OP.
GWF's AoE CC was better than CW?: Only Frontline Surge would do that thing which, as i said, i agree with the change into a Stun. Roar?? just fix the CC inmunity piercing it as i said too. Do not see the "better" when CW-class have Shard and other CC encounters/dailies. GWF's AoS is easely dodgeable by most classes and blockable, Slam is easely avoid-able by all clases, etc. You said "tankiness" for GWF-class, i would say for CW-class "range damage"... and you can have all defense you want and deal all damage you want, if you cant get near a CW (which, were really hard vs good CW-players because they kited you a lot and knew how and when to dodge Frontline [as i said, the fix on roar here would be nice]), then that all stuff is useless, or not?
Another fix for GWF-class on mod 3 i forgot to wrote is Unstoppable,"Unstoppable recovery" and "Heroic Duelist" set being affected by HD due they gave a lot of survivality/sustaining to the class.
)
I am not debating or disagreeing with you. In Mod 3 GWF had too much good, we both agree on the same aspects that needed to be changed and have been. CW had/has range damage yes, but GWF is the master of closing gaps. And a good GWF can easily control the flow of the fight by pressuring the CW. Just as a good CW can easily dodge a GWF stuns/prones. The difference was if the CW got caught once it was pretty close to game over. The GWF had to be tossed around and dealt with for far longer. A smart GWF doesn't try to open with FLS anyway, it is what everyone was expecting. Plus roar was pretty much guaranteed no matter what to land.
So I guess the biggest difference would be in the time to kill and the effort given. If the CW missed a dodge then like I said, it was close to him dying.
CW can/could range pewpew GWF for a few seconds before the GWF would close gap close enough to Threat Rush. Then tap sprint after CW dodge and Threat Rush again. Or just roar FLS IBS. Since roar said NO to dodge. And if they were using the more annoying set up of Roar FLS and Takedown then your talking 6 sec takedown with certain spec and a 2 sec cooldown if the CW dodged and takedown missed. Most of what made GWF so powerful was the way prones worked and the bugged roar allowing them to apply their high damage to you endlessly. If you got away, they are just a right click away from you and back on you.
Where GWFs are now is a good spot. CWs got too much love. I liked my Mod 3 CW a lot, I just hated spam gap closers and 30ft aoe prone and Roar was a huge issue due to it working they way that it did. I didn't and don't mind being squishy, it would be wrong if CW's could be tanky and still have their damage and control.
They now just need to address CW in a timely manner which it looks like they are already. Gonna make Assailant deflectable and what not.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
You can mention it all the time you want. Again, not my problem if you did not understood those videos
The videos claimed GWF is weak. And you showed up with lame PvE gear, bad choice if skills, bad rotation, and fought GODMODE who is one of the most experienced GFs on the game, with 10s and legendaries, with your rank 7s.
And then made claims about how strong a GWF is. Which is ridiculous.
I pretty much offered you a civilized peace offer in my previous post. All you had to do is just be reasonable and stop posting things that are not real or based on biased data.
I see my attempt was futile, which is fine by me.
Trust me however. Every experienced player can see through your posts. The sad part is developers probably don't...
Actually it was quite a fun fight to be CW vs GWF in mod 3, but being caught just once by the GWF and getting hit with a crit and insta killed just seemed a little unfair.(Again Roar made it so people couldn't even dodge, so it just exacerbated this unfairness) I have seen it from both sides as I have both a CW and a GWF. And I completely agree the biggest over all and underlying problem is gear and the matchmaking system. A lot of what people think is OP tends to just be something that they don't understand, or they are still blissfully ignorant as to how important gear is in this game.
Prones were the biggest plague of PvP. Those were really all that needed to go away, in my opinion anyway. And the instans at will gap closer - that is just too much for someone who has so many other gap closing options.That and the buff top CW control.
Also you can Mighty leap and completely Dodge something just like a CW or TR does. It is so satisfying when I Mighty leap Dodge Ice Knife and other skills that you know the person is relying heavily upon landing on you . xD But GWF's didn't even think about this because the other way was easier. Takedown on my GWF is 6.3 seconds or so and if I miss it is 2.some odd seconds. That would be like making it if Entangling Force misses you get it back in 4 seconds. That would not be very fair. Still don't understand why they get a reduced cooldown on a skill shot, if the skill shot misses.
I don't want to keep going back and forth through the many different scenarios we could theorize either, as I believe we both understand what each other are saying.
On top of the over gearing it is all of the added effects from all the new items and the sometimes vast benefit that is begotten by certain classes because of certain items and how well it all works together when put to action.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Comments
+1 for your post, their all blind
heres another video ive search watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTkXsaC05KM
for those blind, what will you say after watching this
Then we should still be talking about the pre-mod1 era when tene GFs were chain-prone killing every enemy, even tanks, in PvP? No.
They got their nerf, even too much, and people never complained since then.
GWFs got their huge nerf so grow up and get over your butthurt. Or i'll start complaining about how, when i started playing, GFs could chain-prone to death the enemies in 1 rotation.
CWs say they deserve their moment of glory in PvP till the broken/ OP feats/ enchants get fixed. I'd agree IF they were not broken OP for PvE too the whole year and a half since game release, farming dungeons with no need for any other class.
Before GWF got Deep Gash bug and later destroyer tree buff, you could spent 45 minutes/ 1 hour shouting in PE for a party while the chat was asking only for CWs.
Now they can 2-men CN. Call it a nerf.
But once they get in line with the rest of us in PvE, i for sure will not keep bringing up the issue. It'll be past.
GWFs got nerfed quite a lot and PvP destroyer now requires quite some skill to be effective and the whole class is for sure far from being powerful. Other classes are at the top now. So get over it.
Unless you make tanking and AoE CC really needed. CWs don't need to be top AoE DPSers. That is GWF role. CWs role is to AoE CC and group enemies together AND support AoE DPS. They just got spoiled being both the best AoE DPS AND CC in PvE so now they think they need both. It's not true. Just like GWFs have AoE DPS and low AoE CC, CWs should have only one.
CWs--->AoE CC or AoE DPS
GWF--->AoE DPS or tanking
GF--->aggro and tank to protect the party or DPS support+ off-tank
DC--->healing and buff to protect the party
HRs/TRs--->single target DPS, interchangeable. HR could bring AoE DPS support, but less single target, while TRs could be single target DPS kings.
Depending on the build you can pick different classes. Like a DPS CW to AoE DPS but then you should get short of CC (right now, you get both). Or a tank GWF who can tank more but can't DPS a lot. Or a DPS GF who can help with DPS but should be less reliable at protecting the party. And so on. You can't find a GF, you can perhaps bring a sentinel. More DPS but less protection.
There must be ways to substitute a missing class in PvE, but should be less fast/ optimal than a rainbow party.
SW i don't know what they do. May be Single target DPS/ debuff. IDK.
I agree wholeheartedly with you!
While there is a Learn2Play factor that can't be ignored, the ease of use for the current CW is just silly. Being rewarded so highly for simply freezing someone is a load of crock.
I do believe that a lot of people probably have a hard time adjusting to the action and reaction involved in NW. I am a lot like you in the sense of staying in there and fighting the things that are difficult for you until you undersatnd how to counter it. Perma stealth TR's for the most part are laughable now. You aren't safe when you are invisible, I will find you and force you out of it and make you pop ITC and totally ruin your whole planned rotation. Same with GWF's back in Mod and before.
Regen Sent back capping? Just keep repeling him off the node over and over. You don;t have to kill someone to turn the game in your favor, but it sure does help.
Roar spamming FLS IBS IV GWF? WEll, they all used the same rotations and were way too easy to predict and react too.
HR Pathfinders? That was tricky but doable.
I agree with the GWF being played differently is super fun and quite effective. My GWF is quite the oddball. All about Action Point gain, recovery + INT, and mobility. It is super fun !!
I also agree with this. Overall what matters the most is the damage someone can do - it is also what matters the most when talking about something being OP or needing a nerf or buff. yea CC is super important in PvP and PvE but without the damage to finish the deal it doesn't matter. The fact that you get so much free damage from controlling someone is what makes it OP. Thaum and maybe renegade could do more damage depending on overall build and play styles. But they don't get the heightened control with the free damage for doing so.
I am not trying to cry for nerfs as I've said my highest gear score is on my CW. But I also don't want any class to have too much of an advantage.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
And not a boar's rush was landed that day. The angels cried.
Also if the CW didn't have his daily he'd be toast.
CW's are OP but not in that way (the I can take multiple guys no problem way HRs/GWFs were).
I do like the music on that vid though.
That's what I think the game should aim for.
I agree so much, it was almost impossible to get a group (it was 1 GF 1 DC 3 CW, 1 GF 1 DC 2 CW 1 TR; or 3 CW 1 DC 1 TR for the best players, the very old comps).
But actually it's the same for TRs ....
Yep 2 whole mods of OP.
Nah, they had a little bit too much damages for their tanking, but the major problem was the other classes behind (CW/TR(no perma stealth)/DC/GF.
I'll say those two HRs are awful. And you cant judge the class based on one fight, I was killing 1 vs 3 in mod 3 sometimes, so what?
And about GWFs, they were able to take more damage than GFs, to dish more damage than single target DPS classes (also doing damage to many enemies at once), and heal themselves pretty good, I do think they were OP too. I don't think a single class should be able to do all of that at the same time.
No No actually I love domination everything in my path, its not Boring at all winning all the time....honestly..
Just keep in mind your playing an mmo. not a Moba.
You can always play League if you wanna be at a even start of every match you know.
Not sure what those builds are that you're referring to. I'm referring to the builds that let a GWF kill everybody easily and be super hard to kill at the same time.
And you also think CWs were good in mod3?
Are we playing the same game?
But saying Mod 3 CW was balanced with Mod 3 GWF is beyond imagination. saying Mod 3 GWF was balanced at all is silly.
Mod 3 CW didn't need a huge buff, just a fix to their control powers. The other classes being changed in the way they have been in tandem with this increase to control would have been just about perfect though.
Mod 3 IV GWF was kraft mac n Easy. Spamable gap closer, Range AoE prone and Range AoE Cone Interrupt stun with all that beefy defense and damage was just too much. No one should have it good in every which way. And if it isn't going your way just go berserk and sprint away to health pot and mount up and try again. Literally had every advantage. Sword Masters were closer to balanced but still quite **** powerful.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
The huge difference was fixed for the most part with this Mod, with the exception of the changes that are now plaguing everybody. What I mean is the toning down of GWF effectiveness and HR pathfinder too but they went too far. Like I said GWF was just to effective in PvP Mod 3. AoE CC that was better than the Control Wizards, more life + defense, Control Immunity and Break, really good damage capabilities.
I like a lot of the changes made to GWF and think they are in a good spot now.
CW only needed the control boost as I said. And the changes of prones to stuns was what was really needed. Prones are just too good.
I would love if they would ever do a lock out like you suggest. The super high gear of some people is definitely what makes things go from imbalanced to ridiculously OP in the eyes of players.
I also hope that they implement some code to just govern skills and effects in PvP so we can get them balanced with otu effecting PvE and vice versa.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
He's playing the same game, but with bad build, bad skills, bad gear.
Agreed. But I actually do think CWs were good in mod3... No not the pug ones, the ones that actually served a purpose and didn't try to go home alone. The actually good CWs in premades would know that a perma is there or a HR or a GWF and would get a buddy to stop fighting for a sec and help him clear because CWs were key to clearing all 3. So what if they weren't as good at 1vs1 then the rest of the classes.. I mean did you really expect them to be? If Cryptic gave each class the best 1vs1 capabilities then where would any specific class stand out? Now CWs are the best at 1vs1 and the best at control.
which top tr did u kill 1v1
i know that build.......u just leave
when real tr comes on cap
so before calling out any tr u should proly beat one 1v1 with
full hp ,not coming to only daily him
If you would stop making ridiculous statements about all kinds of stuff, you have my promise I will never mention this stuff again.
CWs would have seemed balanced to you in Module 3, but to a GOOD GWF, with BiS gear, a CW was almost nothing, no threat. The only power CW had back then was chaining dailies that crit. A GWF could interrupt a shard use each time they would use Icy Rays (so no rotation), and a Repel user had to deal with all kinds of deflects and resists.
Could a CW still win? Yes. By hitting nebulous numbers with Ice Knife and stuff. Was about RNG.
Was a CW good in the hands of a skilled player in premades? Not good, but downright amazing as DPS support and debuffer. But way too weak in 1vs1.
Everybody knows now CWs were overbuffed. Assailant will be tweaked. Have patience and we will see how PvP looks after. In the meantime, please stop making ridiculous statements. Thanks.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
As 18k cw that finished whole pvp campaign in mod 3 I can say that CWs were not even close to equally geared GWF. When it came to 1 v 1 it was really hard for CW to burst down 45k+ hp unstoppable truck, GWF just rushed CW to death. It was possible but 1 wrong move for CW meant instant death. Of course there were outstanding CWs out there, with 40+k hp, legendary artifacts and all ranks 10, but it was not easy for them. Mod 3 CW was decent but very challenging.
Mod 4 brought some boosts for CW and people just need to get used to it and deal with it. CWs are still squishy as hell, but I would not say they're OP.
I am not debating or disagreeing with you. In Mod 3 GWF had too much good, we both agree on the same aspects that needed to be changed and have been. CW had/has range damage yes, but GWF is the master of closing gaps. And a good GWF can easily control the flow of the fight by pressuring the CW. Just as a good CW can easily dodge a GWF stuns/prones. The difference was if the CW got caught once it was pretty close to game over. The GWF had to be tossed around and dealt with for far longer. A smart GWF doesn't try to open with FLS anyway, it is what everyone was expecting. Plus roar was pretty much guaranteed no matter what to land.
So I guess the biggest difference would be in the time to kill and the effort given. If the CW missed a dodge then like I said, it was close to him dying.
CW can/could range pewpew GWF for a few seconds before the GWF would close gap close enough to Threat Rush. Then tap sprint after CW dodge and Threat Rush again. Or just roar FLS IBS. Since roar said NO to dodge. And if they were using the more annoying set up of Roar FLS and Takedown then your talking 6 sec takedown with certain spec and a 2 sec cooldown if the CW dodged and takedown missed. Most of what made GWF so powerful was the way prones worked and the bugged roar allowing them to apply their high damage to you endlessly. If you got away, they are just a right click away from you and back on you.
Where GWFs are now is a good spot. CWs got too much love. I liked my Mod 3 CW a lot, I just hated spam gap closers and 30ft aoe prone and Roar was a huge issue due to it working they way that it did. I didn't and don't mind being squishy, it would be wrong if CW's could be tanky and still have their damage and control.
They now just need to address CW in a timely manner which it looks like they are already. Gonna make Assailant deflectable and what not.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
The videos claimed GWF is weak. And you showed up with lame PvE gear, bad choice if skills, bad rotation, and fought GODMODE who is one of the most experienced GFs on the game, with 10s and legendaries, with your rank 7s.
And then made claims about how strong a GWF is. Which is ridiculous.
I pretty much offered you a civilized peace offer in my previous post. All you had to do is just be reasonable and stop posting things that are not real or based on biased data.
I see my attempt was futile, which is fine by me.
Trust me however. Every experienced player can see through your posts. The sad part is developers probably don't...
Actually it was quite a fun fight to be CW vs GWF in mod 3, but being caught just once by the GWF and getting hit with a crit and insta killed just seemed a little unfair.(Again Roar made it so people couldn't even dodge, so it just exacerbated this unfairness) I have seen it from both sides as I have both a CW and a GWF. And I completely agree the biggest over all and underlying problem is gear and the matchmaking system. A lot of what people think is OP tends to just be something that they don't understand, or they are still blissfully ignorant as to how important gear is in this game.
Prones were the biggest plague of PvP. Those were really all that needed to go away, in my opinion anyway. And the instans at will gap closer - that is just too much for someone who has so many other gap closing options.That and the buff top CW control.
Also you can Mighty leap and completely Dodge something just like a CW or TR does. It is so satisfying when I Mighty leap Dodge Ice Knife and other skills that you know the person is relying heavily upon landing on you . xD But GWF's didn't even think about this because the other way was easier. Takedown on my GWF is 6.3 seconds or so and if I miss it is 2.some odd seconds. That would be like making it if Entangling Force misses you get it back in 4 seconds. That would not be very fair. Still don't understand why they get a reduced cooldown on a skill shot, if the skill shot misses.
I don't want to keep going back and forth through the many different scenarios we could theorize either, as I believe we both understand what each other are saying.
On top of the over gearing it is all of the added effects from all the new items and the sometimes vast benefit that is begotten by certain classes because of certain items and how well it all works together when put to action.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter