test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Official Feedback Thread: Control Wizard Changes

1313234363739

Comments

  • hanshozhanshoz Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    this is my first Feedback, since i saw the news from a week ago (where and how to join) i thought i give it a try.

    B]important info[/Bkeep in mind, i play this game for fun, not yet so long and dont fully understand all the game mechanics!
    i have a "decent" gear, (control wizard, gear score 11k) and gave it a short look on the test server. if people like me aren't suppose to give their 5 Cent, thats fair enough to me if you want only high geared or only very experienced player to report.
    then just ignore what i've continue to write now.
    i'm also worried that i'm to late anyway for changes.[/important info]

    renegade with 11k gs + - at live server.

    PVE on test server:
    i noticed a clear decrease in dps in all skills. it feels less smooth (possible higher casting times and or higher cooldowns) which made my control tougher against "easy" mobs. i needed alot longer to kill them compared to live server. i would need some adjustment or change path.
    my gameplay and powers dont seem to be good enough anymore.

    one thing, obviously was mentioned before. Shard of the endless Avalance. this one is our only Level 50 encounter. now it is nerfed to be, imo, completely not usable anymore. dps so down, it feels i'm throwing peanuts instead of something lv 50 wise.
    now if you wanna take it out, i guess i can live with that, but i need a replacement or the wizard as i know it, has a problem.


    PVP: didnt get a chance to try it, but when i look at the live server, top 20, 0 wizards (yes, Zero), top 60 you have 2 cw (also 2 clerics), its like running a marathon with two broken legs. imo, wizard need something strong for pvp, because of the tenacity. otherwise the team, if all have even gs and gameplay skills, with most cw will lose.
  • jayrad8jayrad8 Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Now, Shard of the Endless Avalanche (henceforth referred to as SotEA) is an impressive and complicated power. The damage it could pump out on a single target was admirable, but it was way out of line on multiple targets. We looked at a couple options for adjusting it and finally went with an outright nerf because in too many cases in both PVP and PVE it felt pretty necessary to use it because it offered so much (Strong Damage, Chain Prone, Arcane Stacks, Explosive damage at the end, etc). We looked at letting damage divide down by number of targets but we found the same problem. It was pretty close to always a right choice and that didn't feel appropriate with one of the cornerstones of the Wizard philosophy in PNP (which is Preparing spells and being flexible with your casting choices). As such we adjusted lots of casting times and damages to provide spells with much more in line breakpoints where AoE started trumping single target damage more clearly. Before all of these adjustments that breakpoint fell somewhere around 1.6 targets. This meant, for all intents and purposes, you should generally NEVER use a single target power with some minor exceptions (MM being a major one). Given this we tuned AoE damage down and made the single target powers perform much closer to each other in terms of what they brought to the table. Given this goal we *don't* want to push SotEA back into that position of being great in all circumstances. This is why we improved the prone duration on it and why we won't be buffing the damage on it up. However we are aware of PVP wizards struggle right now, and so some of the above buffs should help bring back more single target damage opportunities (as well as some more utility for those who are working with groups).

    Feedback: Shard of the Endless Avalanche

    Gcrush mentioned that the reason this encounter was nerfed is due to the fact that shard outperformed several encounters in many situations on Live and is essentially BiS or always a better option than slotting a single target encounter at times when single target powers should be better. With the nerf, the encounter has been taken to a complete opposite end of the spectrum, an extreme low, where shard is never a better option in place of another single target or aoe encounter. I think damage should be given back to shard, such that it is a viable option again, but not always the best option, in order to establish balance between all encounters available to the CW.

    You have addressed the "Strong Damage" too harshly, buffed the "Chain Prone" in extending the prone time, left the "Arcane Stacks" unchanged, and transitively taken the "Explosive Damage" to a drastic low. I would suggest reducing the prone time, reducing the explosive damage radius, implementing a low target cap, taking away the arcane stack building from standing near the shard, increase the casting time if absolutely necessary, or even change the explosion cc from prone to a lesser cc such as daze, push, and/or slow -- in order to have damage restored to this encounter. Surely, a better balance can be established for this encounter than what currently exists on the preview.
    Ezra@jayrad8 | M4 CW Class Advocate
    twitch.tv/ezracw | absolutegaming.guildportal.com
    #BringBackShard | M5 CW Bug List | My M3 PvP Gameplay
    PpkM0MK.png

  • sapdragonsapdragon Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'd still like to see FtF be buffed, in the sense that off TAB it can add smoulder. For PvP purposes MoF seems even less attractive now, as orb of imposition is looking like a must have slot, which means we would have to choose between CC or SoD.

    Without CC, only FtF on TAB or SB can add smoulder. Without SoD we lose the 15% debuff and about 45% damage increase on smoulder.

    All three combinations to me leave something to be desired, as the orb is so crucial to all these "control" updates, and i've run through these on shard. The idea of being a MoF is to use smoulder, but we have to cripple ourselves by being linked to FtF on TAB or Scorching Burst, or on the flip side it not doing any damage.

    The charge time on FtF feels better now, 1 second is fine, and if you must make the cool-down 22 seconds, then do it, and if you want to remove 33% damage, do it - but then add something back to it for us rare MoFs. Change the TAB ability to something else, maybe add the 33% damage back if it's on TAB and then make FtF add smoulder even if off TAB. This makes the skill more viable again, and it means we don't have to make the choice between FtF on TAB or Shield on TAB.

    I'd actually like to see a comparison between Storm Spell and Smoulder (with swath of destruction) to see what does more damage over-all.
  • edited August 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    macjae wrote: »
    Repel still tends to fail intermittently, not pushing the target backwards, only inflicting a short stun.

    They have located the problem but panderus said it won't be fixed for module 4 release because -
    panderus wrote: »
    I think we may have found the cause of this, but it will probably not make it for release as it is not an easy or safe fix.

    So I'm guessing the fix would screw up something else in a big way.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?723821-Control-Wizard-encounter-Repel
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
  • twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sapdragon wrote: »
    I'd still like to see FtF be buffed, in the sense that off TAB it can add smoulder. For PvP purposes MoF seems even less attractive now, as orb of imposition is looking like a must have slot, which means we would have to choose between CC or SoD.

    Without CC, only FtF on TAB or SB can add smoulder. Without SoD we lose the 15% debuff and about 45% damage increase on smoulder.

    All three combinations to me leave something to be desired, as the orb is so crucial to all these "control" updates, and i've run through these on shard. The idea of being a MoF is to use smoulder, but we have to cripple ourselves by being linked to FtF on TAB or Scorching Burst, or on the flip side it not doing any damage.

    The charge time on FtF feels better now, 1 second is fine, and if you must make the cool-down 22 seconds, then do it, and if you want to remove 33% damage, do it - but then add something back to it for us rare MoFs. Change the TAB ability to something else, maybe add the 33% damage back if it's on TAB and then make FtF add smoulder even if off TAB. This makes the skill more viable again, and it means we don't have to make the choice between FtF on TAB or Shield on TAB.

    I'd actually like to see a comparison between Storm Spell and Smoulder (with swath of destruction) to see what does more damage over-all.
    The real killer for MoF is the recent buff to Eye of the Storm. It's pretty difficult to justify giving up 6 seconds of 100% crit chance at the start of every combat. Combine it with the necessity of running Orb of Imposition and I don't think anyone will be running MoF in PvP any more. Which is a real shame as I love that paragon.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
  • relativityrelativity Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I've heard new EotS will help Renegades. Can someone explain to me how? I see it helping Thaumas' damage even more making it even more incentive to go thauma way for PvP.

    After certain point if it goes for amount of critical hits in PvE, it really doesn't matter if you are Rene or Thauma. I have over 3k crit and on preview I saw my thauma build crit just as often as my rene.


    Suggestion:
    PvP tenacity sets speak volumes about what Renegade supposed to be. No supporting buffy class would have set with no additional HP. If you mess up trees, think of adjusting their armour pvp sets as well. How do you expect renegade win over thaumaturge? This EotS change will be accessible for every tree. Thauma has capstone to make up for damage and pvp set to help their hp. I'm fine with that, but tell me, why should I be happy with renegade again?

    It could be balanced if renegade capstone would also be of some practical use. Again: if renegades had capstone that would allow them (or give 'em a chance over some period of time) to cast twice as many encounters or shoot double as often at-wills then thauma or oppressor, this could make up for lower dps and shorter CC. Something similar to spell Sequencer in D'nD.
    Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
    thief-glyphs.gif?w=32
    And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
  • charkanramoncharkanramon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    If the EOTS will be the proposed way is better to give something extra to the main weapon of the MoF. Smolder should apply a healing penalty and decrease the time of dot.
  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I believe the devs were beat up a lot by renegades when they were kids. That's the only plausible explanation for what they've done to the tree.
  • andrereileaoandrereileao Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Hi dudes

    Please, remove the skill of cw "Orb of Imposition" that to have 75% of control.
    That's nonsense is too much control, it in pvp dont work for other class.
    You can not change something for an exorbitant amount

    Switch to a smaller amount, 5 in 5% max 25% of control
    Revise these exorbitant changes of the classes, this will bring an uneven game !!
    I play with cw and I find it very disproportion
    Best regards.
  • kieranmtornkieranmtorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Bug - tool tip for Storm Spell not updated to reflect new damage and odds.

    When I first read the proposed Storm Spell & EotS changes, my reaction was 'that's crazy talk', given the nerf's to CW's damage.

    Feedback: changes to Storm Spell results (when using a skill-free chill stacking build - CoI-tab, ST, SS-partially feated, IT) in dps comparable to my mod3 dps. Storm Spell is 52% of 26k EncDps using a Renegade build. In mod3 (using my normal build) testing against the DR dummies, I should be at about 28k (no artifacts or similar used). Even when using a non-chill stacking build (CS-tab, ST, SS-partially feated, Shard), I'm still seeing 25k EncDPS (using EotS & Storm Spell in each test). I would expect Thaum to be substantially more effective, (assailing force and more feat points to using on feating Sudden Storm).

    This really doesn't take any skill to use. Just stack chill and stand around.
  • kieranmtornkieranmtorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback: changes to EotS, not much in sustained DPS, but in a opening encounter spike situation (ie Domination with a DC artifact), probably will be a problem. My DPS using my normal evocation, EotS passive skill set is about 5% better after the changes. As a Spell Storm Renegade, it really doesn't help in PVE sustained DPS situations.

    As things stand now for Renegade, it's basically still screwed by the feat tree change - essentially a 5 feat point penalty compared to Thaum for a less effective tree, combined with a forgettable capstone.
  • iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    EotS and Storm spell changes seem to be nice ,it's 4 am here so it's not like I'm parsing this stuff but damage output 'seems' to be up quite nicely xD
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback: CW


    - looks to be quite balanced finally
    - Severe Reaction is finally doing a proper job
    - Orb of Imposition comes at a SEVERE loss of DPS and it is FINALLY functioning properly; it is a tradeoff - DPS for CC
    - Storm Spell makes up for some lost DPS which is good - we need single target DPS


    Conclusion:

    People here fought underpowered CWs for AGES. It is time for CW to take its deserved place in PvP - even if this sadly means that the class no longer takes too much skill to play.
    People here got used to kill CWs easily.
    People here got used to think of CW as pure support while their classes were able to kill AND survive a the same time (HR, TR and GWF).

    It is time for perceptions to change.

    Learn to respect and fear the wizards.
  • yperkeimenosyperkeimenos Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback / Bug : Storm Spell / Eye of the Storm / Shard of Avalanche

    Ok,I've been doing some testing on preview,as a spellstorm mage, and to be honest a lot of my damage output came from the new Storm spell which will make it a must in future builds. Eye of the storm is much better now but i didn't use it since i hate ICDs (they are difficult to time right) so went for Evocation instead. I even forgot that there is such a thing as shard of avalanche, which is an important part of my Live build.Don't need it anymore with the way things are. All in all i find the new Cw to be a very versatile class that can go for either control or damage, or increased survivability with a cost in damage output(Tabbed Shield). Also for some reason the Storm spell Tooltip doesn't state the new proc chance of 35% but the old one of 10%.
    It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
  • crazymikeecrazymikee Member Posts: 694 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Bug Report: Storm Spell Proc with Ray of Frost

    When Storm Spell procs off of Ray of Frost it procs double, should only be proccing once like all other abilities

    VERY BIG GLITCH if this stays it will make up almost 50% of the CW damage
    Coach Mike - 19.1k PvP CW
    CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW

    Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
    [SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
  • abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback: Storm Spell

    Boosting Storm Spell proc frequency and damage so significantly was a mistake. Here is a parse of me doing the Heroic Encounter Undead Invasion solo in Dwarven Valley. It took 5 minutes, 13 seconds. I cleared it with no trouble whatsoever. My DPS was 37,587 which is about the same as what I can do on live. 43.7% of that damage was from Storm Spell (the picture shows 41,035 DPS and 40% damage from storm spell, but that includes my healing from lifesteal as "damage").

    2cffle0.jpg
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • reagenlionel1reagenlionel1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Storm Pillar
    Storm Pillar STILL doesnt crit correctly. The smaller bolts arent critting when the main large bolt crits.
  • relativityrelativity Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Maelstrom of Chaos: still not adjusted to new dodge mechanics, making it the only daily with 50% action point loss penalty if you try to cancel it. Either make AOE range 3x bigger or take away 50% AP loss.

    Blighting Power and Arcane Enhancement: what is the reasoning behind chill attacks damage being buffed two times more then Arcane ones? Oppressor and Thauma are chill based trees, with lots of buffs/debuffs to chilled targets. You have even dumped chilling advantage into renegade tree. With all this I really don't understand why arcane enhancement is only 1/2/3% and Blighting power 2/4/6%? Can we have both 2/4/6%?


    I don't get why you keep renegade tree so weak. Taking broken Spell Storm away from the picture, if you see cap-stone for thauma and oppressor you'll notice they all grant some kind of damage. Renegades on live have at least their MM buffed! In m4 it will be the most worthless capstone ever. Renegade has only 4 feats worth having. Now with EotS change you have added more damage to Oppressor (who has control, though I agree it needs more dmg) and Thauma (who already has damage through assailing), this will not make Renegade a bit appealing. You have ignored players who suggested lowering ICD on EotS through some renegade feat in order to save this tree. Instead you gave it to all trees, making MoFs unhappy and Thaumas even more powerful. Apparently you want all renegades go thauma.
    Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
    thief-glyphs.gif?w=32
    And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
  • yperkeimenosyperkeimenos Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback : Master of Flame / Spellstorm Mage

    Ok upon further testing i have come to the conclusion that Mof is as it should be,excluding FtF the cooldown of which needs to be reduce from 22 secs to 16 secs, and Spellstorm is a bit overpowered. I would suggest for the Proc rate of Storm spell to be set at 25%, or its damage reduced by 35%. That will balance it to more normal levels and will make Cw one of the most balanced and versatile class,excluding the Renegade tree which still needs some love and Shard of Endless Avalanche that needs a buff in damage.
    It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
  • hamletswordshamletswords Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1,320 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Just want to post this here in this thread so the Devs see it:
    xmousepadx wrote: »
    You can kill everyone in 2-4sec with ray of frost in icewind dale. The highest ''doubleprocc'' that i had was 19k on my cw against an fully pvp geared/r10 hr. He died in 2sec cuz me pressing an at-will.
    Even when they fix the doubleproccs, each single stormspell procc will do as much dmg as an iceknife, on average (8-10k).

    This needs to be fixed before going live, and there's not much time left.
    My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
  • edited August 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • meldan3nmeldan3n Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    RoF seems to double-proc Storm Spell. That's definitely not intended.
  • charkanramoncharkanramon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Storm is 100% stronger than MoF in pvp. Fix this please.
  • meldan3nmeldan3n Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Fix for Storm Spell: Should only proc on base Encounter/At-Will/Daily damage, not on Chill stacks/DoTs. This is the main reason why it procs so often. Once the new changes have been tested, should it still provide too much damage, the next step would be to only let Encounters and Dailies proc Storm Spell. But I don't think it would be necessary. The "one-shotting" comes from the Chill stacks.
  • abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback: CW play style

    I definitely feel that the CW class overall is less fun to play on preview than on live. It's not because of the reduced damage, it's because of how we inflict damage. Pushing a giant exploding ball into a mob and knocking them flat is fun. It's satisfying. It feels like you're a powerful mage laying waste to foes. The new style of play that CW's have to conform to is damage over time and procing random effects. The goal is to cast a low damage DoT spell then sit back and watch as random effects (Storm Spell, Assailant, Creeping Frost, Warped Magics, et al) eat them alive. It doesn't feel like you're actually doing anything. We're no longer the source of damage, we're passive observers where all we have to do is light a fuse then find some place to hide while we wait for the damage to happen on its own. It's just not as satisfying. It's probably too late to change anything about that now, but please keep in mind for future changes that indirect damage is a lot less fun than direct damage.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • charkanramoncharkanramon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'll be honest. I Love "Master of Flame" and I think that changes of "Spell Storm" are very powerful. Why "Eye of Storm" have to give 100% critical during the first 6 seconds? This removes the need for critical rate for that paragorn what I think incorrect. I would recommend debase the value of 100% to 30%, and is only activated when the CW uses control skills (no matter if the target is immune). Thus damage compensates if you choose to use more control skills.

    I want to see people invest more in critical and armor penetration.
  • charkanramoncharkanramon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    A fight between a Master of Flame and Storm is unfair. Smolder does not reach the feet of the absurd damage from the Storm. I ask equality between the two Paragorns. As I see developers only like Storm.

    I do not want to be forced to change Paragorn to participate in pvp.
  • relativityrelativity Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Arcane enhancement: considering all buffs to chill attacks and chill-focused changes to CWs, arcane enhancement should be reworked. Give it 3/6/9% (up from 1/2/3%) more damage to arcane powers. It would help Renegade tree, but also give a bit more damage to overkilled Shard we all care for very much.
    Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
    thief-glyphs.gif?w=32
    And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
  • magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback: 1vs1s

    Traditionally, there were always good classes at 1vs1 and bad classes for that. CW was one of the weakest for 1vs1s.

    Well, things change. Now CW is strong in 1vs1 against other classes. Just like an HR is these days.

    Also, the game is 5vs5. There's no need to make all classes equal so 1vs1s are balanced. It is rock, paper... shotgun.


    Conclusion:

    Other classes should probably get used to playing support and avoid 1vs1s with CWs. You should bring a second player to clear the CW. Such a thing is nothing special and is a common tactic in PvP against stronger classes. Such as HRs and GWFs for example.
This discussion has been closed.