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Official Feedback Thread: Control Wizard Changes

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    sokolnichiysokolnichiy Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Hi, i found some interesting, please players and especialy DEVS LOOK AT THIS VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aMr7X4nsb8

    -show me reason why you nerf shard so much? becouse as you can see on video it deals 1,5- max 7k crit ? average is 2/3k dmg crit and non crit. Now after your nerf it will be maby 500 dmg?
    -show me our powerful single target dps which you also nerf- look at 6:15 - 740 ice knife d(-.-)b and later 7:16 - Icy Rays deals 87 dmg from critical strike. Compare all of this with GWF IBS which can hit for even 20k-this is sick
    -look on our survivability, we are paper as hell, please look on scoreboard after match- the result is dazzling...
    Tell me how should we fight against another classes if our single target dmg is already broken? This video perfectly show how weak in pvp is CW and you don't do anything to change it and what's more you are nerfing us. I dont know is that role of all CW- we have to be pvp meat or you dont know anything about your own game? pathetic guys, realy pathetic.

    OH GOSH! My eyes ((( dat weird fisheye effect...for pete's sake why someone use this shiiiiiiat when making video. My eyes hurt so much i can not focus properly.

    However numbers can be seen clearly and indeed, there is nothing op it such damage compared to non stop charging GWF and GF overpowered constant attacks.

    It's good when you are all doing dungeon and GWF or GF have high survivability and damage thas mostly ok cause you are chalenging AI not other players.

    But in pvp SUCH numbers cause MUCH pain in da *** WOW...
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    rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Hi, i found some interesting, please players and especialy DEVS LOOK AT THIS VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aMr7X4nsb8

    -show me reason why you nerf shard so much? becouse as you can see on video it deals 1,5- max 7k crit ? average is 2/3k dmg crit and non crit. Now after your nerf it will be maby 500 dmg?
    -show me our powerful single target dps which you also nerf- look at 6:15 - 740 ice knife d(-.-)b and later 7:16 - Icy Rays deals 87 dmg from critical strike. Compare all of this with GWF IBS which can hit for even 20k-this is sick
    -look on our survivability, we are paper as hell, please look on scoreboard after match- the result is dazzling...
    Tell me how should we fight against another classes if our single target dmg is already broken? This video perfectly show how weak in pvp is CW and you don't do anything to change it and what's more you are nerfing us. I dont know is that role of all CW- we have to be pvp meat or you dont know anything about your own game? pathetic guys, realy pathetic.
    you can see gwfs proning. this video is from mod 3. Pallozza who i know he doesnt have the preview is writing in chat guild. however i can be a moment to think about the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage of Savage Advance and the abuse of it with the cleric artifact.
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    hfgtfsdfshfgtfsdfs Member Posts: 688 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    rayrdan wrote: »
    you can see gwfs proning. this video is from mod 3. Pallozza who i know he doesnt have the preview is writing in chat guild. however i can be a moment to think about the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> damage of Savage Advance and the abuse of it with the cleric artifact.

    Well he is asking why the shard was nerfed for PvP in the first place since he don't think its OP on live as it is.
    ZengiaH@ejziponken
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    pointsmanpointsman Member Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Feedback:

    First, I'm disturbed by the philosophy of creating a PVP-specific heroic feat, Focused Wizardry. Does any other class have a feat that buffs PVP play but *harms* PVE play? This feat now becomes the "always correct" option for any PVP CW and the "always wrong" option for any PVE CW. If we're going to go down the path of creating feats that are PVE-specific and PVP-specific, then why not just make the existing feats have dual purposes, one for PVP and one for PVE?

    IMO a better and more elegant solution would be to have buffs to single-target encounters via a class feature, such as Storm Fury (which nobody uses now anyway). By choosing a single-target-specific class feature, CWs would be sacrificing the ability to deal more AOE damage by not slotting an AOE-specific class feature (e.g., Evocation). Furthermore, doing this via a class feature lets PVE CWs take advantage of this buff to single-target damage in certain specific fights (e.g. Fulminorax in Malabog's Castle) without having it harm them in every other situation, as it would if that CW were to take the Focused Wizardry feat now being contemplated.

    Second, personally, I'm a bit irritated by the change to Focused Wizardry, I chose human for my CW because I wanted to take advantage of all of the heroic AOE damage feats that CWs have, sacrificing a potentially higher INT/WIS/CHA score for it. Now I suppose I will have to put these extra feat points into something less optimal.

    Third, more generally, I would hope that Crush and the other devs would realize that the PVP community here is actually rather small, and the PVP CW community is a rather small subset of that. Please do not nerf/buff CWs for the 90% that play PVE, on the basis of the feedback of the 10% who PVP but are overrepresented on the forums. Also, please do not give in to the demands of PVPers from other classes who claim that this or that change is "OP", using disingenuous arguments (such as the proposed changes to Shield), when all they are really interested in is keeping THEIR class on top and all others on bottom.
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    kieranmtornkieranmtorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    lococatt91 wrote: »
    Storm spell
    I thought this class ability now had an ICD, meaning if its 10% or 35% it could still only proc once per so many seconds.
    Am I mistaken?

    I'm looking at an ACT parse, and I can see no ICD. It proc's multiple times per second in some cases (on the same target). So 10%->35% activation odds change and double the damage looks like 7* the current damage (with no skill required) - which will exceed all other damage sources in my run (COI-tabbed, Steal Time, Icy Terrain, Sudden Storm[feated] as a Thaum). This really takes very little skill to stack chill and watch Storm Spell proc.
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    lococatt91lococatt91 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 162 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Thanks for checking it out Kiera.
    I was on preview and Storm spell seemed to only proc once per 10sec or so, but, this was a couple weeks ago so it obviously changed.

    I wonder if a Bile enchant might be way to go now. Abilities are not hitting as hard (so vorp less useful), but a Dot build would be great if it proced storm and assailing.
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    adamy2004adamy2004 Member Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    pointsman wrote: »
    Feedback:

    First, I'm disturbed by the philosophy of creating a PVP-specific heroic feat, Focused Wizardry. Does any other class have a feat that buffs PVP play but *harms* PVE play? This feat now becomes the "always correct" option for any PVP CW and the "always wrong" option for any PVE CW. If we're going to go down the path of creating feats that are PVE-specific and PVP-specific, then why not just make the existing feats have dual purposes, one for PVP and one for PVE?

    IMO a better and more elegant solution would be to have buffs to single-target encounters via a class feature, such as Storm Fury (which nobody uses now anyway). By choosing a single-target-specific class feature, CWs would be sacrificing the ability to deal more AOE damage by not slotting an AOE-specific class feature (e.g., Evocation). Furthermore, doing this via a class feature lets PVE CWs take advantage of this buff to single-target damage in certain specific fights (e.g. Fulminorax in Malabog's Castle) without having it harm them in every other situation, as it would if that CW were to take the Focused Wizardry feat now being contemplated.

    Second, personally, I'm a bit irritated by the change to Focused Wizardry, I chose human for my CW because I wanted to take advantage of all of the heroic AOE damage feats that CWs have, sacrificing a potentially higher INT/WIS/CHA score for it. Now I suppose I will have to put these extra feat points into something less optimal.

    Third, more generally, I would hope that Crush and the other devs would realize that the PVP community here is actually rather small, and the PVP CW community is a rather small subset of that. Please do not nerf/buff CWs for the 90% that play PVE, on the basis of the feedback of the 10% who PVP but are overrepresented on the forums. Also, please do not give in to the demands of PVPers from other classes who claim that this or that change is "OP", using disingenuous arguments (such as the proposed changes to Shield), when all they are really interested in is keeping THEIR class on top and all others on bottom.

    what do you think the end-game in this game is? endlessly farming dungeons till you get max gear? then what, you challenge yourself and do pvp. pvp is where cryptic gains most of their money, from pvp players who do not want to pve and use their money to buy zen to gear out their characters.

    and do you see PvP players complain about pve? no because we have to endlessly farm your stupid dungeons in order to progress, be it gear, money (if we dont p2w) and to progress through the campaigns. so please kindly remove yourself from this forum.
    Don't waste my time.
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    iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    pointsman wrote: »
    Feedback:

    If we're going to go down the path of creating feats that are PVE-specific and PVP-specific, then why not just make the existing feats have dual purposes, one for PVP and one for PVE?


    This would be the all around simplest solution but not just for feats but for all skills , feats , boons etc , gentlemancrush can try as much as he wants but while he has to balance skills , feats etc around two completely different game types he will simply never get anywhere , pve changes will impact pvp and vise versa the way he is currently trying to balance skills is just far too complicated . Plus it would be better for players , they could have two separate loadouts ,one for pve and one for pvp which you could swap at the push of a button .
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
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    twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    adamy2004 wrote: »
    what do you think the end-game in this game is? endlessly farming dungeons till you get max gear? then what, you challenge yourself and do pvp. pvp is where cryptic gains most of their money, from pvp players who do not want to pve and use their money to buy zen to gear out their characters.

    and do you see PvP players complain about pve? no because we have to endlessly farm your stupid dungeons in order to progress, be it gear, money (if we dont p2w) and to progress through the campaigns. so please kindly remove yourself from this forum.
    And this, right here, is why PvPers have such a lousy reputation.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
    Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
    Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
    Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
    Darquess - Soulbinder
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    isuuck2isuuck2 Member Posts: 491 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    feedback
    orb of imposition cc duration is to long on players.
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    isuuck2isuuck2 Member Posts: 491 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    feedback
    severe reaction repel distance and proc chance needs to be severely reduced. the fact that they are so tanky and hit so hard and now it is even harder to but pressure on them. All of these unbalances are due to how strong assailant force is and their cc now. cw have to many things going for them. and now cw are getting a 60% dmg buff to single target
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    sv3t1anasv3t1ana Banned Users Posts: 69
    edited August 2014
    Feedback:


    Thank you for making them a Actual Control class, now reduce their damage and let them be the way they was ment to, as they are on Tabletop...
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    ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    isuuck2 wrote: »
    feedback
    orb of imposition cc duration is to long on players.
    Orb of Imposition being Control Wizard's feature should work like that -- otherwise it has no difference than other classes and you can't call it Control Wizard. Besides, GWF gets insane 3 seconds stun.

    isuuck2 wrote: »
    feedback
    severe reaction repel distance and proc chance needs to be severely reduced. the fact that they are so tanky and hit so hard and now it is even harder to but pressure on them. All of these unbalances are due to how strong assailant force is and their cc now. cw have to many things going for them. and now cw are getting a 60% dmg buff to single target
    it might be right to say the devs dont care about pvp balance.
    You want to keep melee classes' gap closer and nerf ranged classes' gap creator? Then GWF's sprint speed needs to be reduced too. And making GWF immune to cc via Unstoppable is already canon-breaking, its sprint should not further grant cc immunity.
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    sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    isuuck2 wrote: »
    feedback
    severe reaction repel distance and proc chance needs to be severely reduced. the fact that they are so tanky and hit so hard and now it is even harder to but pressure on them. All of these unbalances are due to how strong assailant force is and their cc now. cw have to many things going for them. and now cw are getting a 60% dmg buff to single target
    it might be right to say the devs dont care about pvp balance.

    go back to your own class you don't have a word for continuing arguing anything and especially since assailalnt nerf and shield nerf announced 1 week ago are not in the previous yet + repel have actually many bug and only work on fiew case (even in live ) + i'm tired of **** player that come complain against other class without playing it simply because the faced one of the fiew top player or because they want to win 100%. a fair build is something that you lose 50% of the time not a 100% win. ANd when you make contest with some high competitor doN,t blame engine blame the pilot first

    edit what are you playing GF that have skill to do 25k in one shot ? GWF that have 2 control skill that have 3 second stun (actually we have only 2 spell that can give the same in pvp and only with orb) HR that actually have a regen that surpass any of our actual damage capacity without the last annouced change + a guy that play with repel mean you are not in icy terrain so assaillant can only proc once every 20 repel
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    kingcalouskingcalous Member Posts: 55
    edited August 2014
    v1rus89 wrote: »
    I have no words.

    I disagree with every single thing you posted, and i can garantee you every pvp cw feels the same way.

    This encounter changed from a pvp hard high-skill encounter to master to the worst encounter hands down in the game.


    Are you guys really that bad off man? I've only seen a few CW's playing around on test but they pretty much dominated every class they fought. Like total and complete domination, barely took a hit.

    Not sure if they were going against scrubs or what, but they did not have alot of gear and they never looked like they were in trouble, just freeze, prone, freeze, freeze, freeze, prone, dead.

    *shrug* what am I missing here? What are they lacking? Their CC is out of this world, they are pretty much the only class left that can prone, and their CC goes through alot of stuff that should block it, their DPS was deffinatly nerfed but you don't need alot of DPS when you can prone/ice knife and all that jazz, so... I dunno. Educate me please :)
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    osterdracheosterdrache Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    isuuck2 wrote: »
    feedback
    severe reaction repel distance and proc chance needs to be severely reduced. the fact that they are so tanky and hit so hard and now it is even harder to but pressure on them. All of these unbalances are due to how strong assailant force is and their cc now. cw have to many things going for them. and now cw are getting a 60% dmg buff to single target
    it might be right to say the devs dont care about pvp balance.

    Dont be mad at Godmode because of this ^^ He is on another whine rampage. Just a brief look at his forum posts shows that he goes to every feedback thread spreading his whining "nerf that nerf this". Ofc except the GF thread, there he promotes further buffs for his class.

    And the sad part is, you cant even do anything against his gibbering trash feedbacks because your not allowedcto discuss anyhing in feedback theads.

    But lets hope that Gentle will realize what isuuuk2 aka Godmode really is: an opportunistic crybaby.
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    ahsherahsher Member Posts: 208 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    kingcalous wrote: »
    Are you guys really that bad off man? I've only seen a few CW's playing around on test but they pretty much dominated every class they fought. Like total and complete domination, barely took a hit.

    Not sure if they were going against scrubs or what, but they did not have alot of gear and they never looked like they were in trouble, just freeze, prone, freeze, freeze, freeze, prone, dead.

    *shrug* what am I missing here? What are they lacking? Their CC is out of this world, they are pretty much the only class left that can prone, and their CC goes through alot of stuff that should block it, their DPS was deffinatly nerfed but you don't need alot of DPS when you can prone/ice knife and all that jazz, so... I dunno. Educate me please :)

    If you have discussion question, post it on discussion thread... I'd be happy to meet you in IWD for a few 1 v 1 matches.
    Asarah 15k CW
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    kingcalouskingcalous Member Posts: 55
    edited August 2014
    ahsher wrote: »
    If you have discussion question, post it on discussion thread... I'd be happy to meet you in IWD for a few 1 v 1 matches.
    Asarah 15k CW

    I was asking Virus, I have played with him and know that hes a decent CW. Knowing this, his opinion carries alittle more weight with me.

    I don't think CW can be beaten by GF right now, last week thats how it was as long as they were running the correct build and not total scrub gear/skill.

    I'll be on some next week, maybe the changes to shield will help, but the main problem I saw was the CC and that just got buffed so I expect it to be worse actually.
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    ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    kingcalous wrote: »
    ... and their CC goes through alot of stuff that should block it ...
    In fact, it is GF's shield which blocks a lot of cc that should work on GF. For example, Repel, Entangling Force, and Freeze.
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    kingcalouskingcalous Member Posts: 55
    edited August 2014
    In fact, it is GF's shield which blocks a lot of cc that should work on GF. For example, Repel, Entangling Force, and Freeze.



    Shield does not block any of your roots. It blocks Repel and Entangling but why shouldn't it? Why should these two abilities go through CC immunities? Is it in the tooltip or something? I didn't know that.
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    ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    kingcalous wrote: »
    Shield does not block any of your roots. It blocks Repel and Entangling but why shouldn't it? Why should these two abilities go through CC immunities? Is it in the tooltip or something? I didn't know that.
    Shield will block roots in mod 4.

    That CC immunity thing itself is questionable. Take Repel for example, Repel's strong force should be able to push any target away, no matter the target is holding one shield or holding ten shields. And when pushing on a target who is holding a shield, Repel actually is supposed to work even better because there is now a greater surface area which is being pushed.
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    hefisdohefisdo Member Posts: 709 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Shield will block roots in mod 4.

    Wait is this truth? I didn't fight against any GF on Preview but a lot of people already said that they are much better.

    How are we going to get GFs out of us?

    (Please move this post of mine for Discussion)
    (´・ ω ・`)
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    ahsherahsher Member Posts: 208 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    GF can easily beat 4 out of 6 pvp builds quite easily. but again, post in discussion. I'm not virus, I'm me. the casual yet competent pvp CW.
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    isuuck2isuuck2 Member Posts: 491 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Dont be mad at Godmode because of this ^^ He is on another whine rampage. Just a brief look at his forum posts shows that he goes to every feedback thread spreading his whining "nerf that nerf this". Ofc except the GF thread, there he promotes further buffs for his class.

    And the sad part is, you cant even do anything against his gibbering trash feedbacks because your not allowedcto discuss anyhing in feedback theads.

    But lets hope that Gentle will realize what isuuuk2 aka Godmode really is: an opportunistic crybaby.
    dude i went on the gf and said the cc's are to long now, that we have a feat to increase frontline surge, we didnt need the cc duration increased.
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    kingcalouskingcalous Member Posts: 55
    edited August 2014
    Shield will block roots in mod 4.

    I have not heard this, and it does not block it on test as of yet so, I don't believe you :) But the bottom line is it should NOT go through shield so we agree there.
    That CC immunity thing itself is questionable. Take Repel for example, Repel's strong force should be able to push any target away, no matter the target is holding one shield or holding ten shields. And when pushing on a target who is holding a shield, Repel actually is supposed to work even better because there is now a greater surface area which is being pushed.

    Problem here is you are applying real world logic to a video game so lets do that for a minute and have some fun!

    Ice Knife should have its damage lowered if the ambient temperature in the arena is above a certain threshold because part of its mass will be melted off by the time it lands.

    Oppressive Force should only attract enemy players who are wearing metal armor correct? If the person has cloth armor and is wielding a wooden staff this power will have no effect. Good?

    Sillyness, you cannot use that as an argument. So again, why should it go through CC? Does it say so in the tool tip? Is there a Feat or Class Feature that buffs it so that it cannot be blocked? If not, then there is no reason for someone who is CC immune to still be susceptible to CC.
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    ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Ice Knife lands very fast so ambient temperature isn't enough to melt it.

    Not sure if Oppressive Force's first magnetic force is supposed to only affect metal armored enemies, but its explosion surely affects all enemies. But I'm okay with making Oppressive Force's first magnetic force only affects metal armored enemies such as GWF/GF. :)
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    ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    pointsman wrote: »
    Why should a physical shield be able to block a magical spell?

    Because the GF's pride is already tarnished enough as it is.
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    kingcalouskingcalous Member Posts: 55
    edited August 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    because it's been enchanted. Ie a wizard did it.

    boom! Headshot!
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    k9revostik9revosti Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I can't survive long enough to kill the epic raiders. It's so frustrating trying to fine something that can make it work, even using feated chilling presence and EoTS, still no dice. I ran across a few CWs doing tests and they expressed pretty much the same frustrations.

    Here is my char:

    XiXfL6x.jpg


    Here are the feats I selected. Since I'm balls deep in the tree to take NW and PD, I decided to feat chilling presence to help get more crit. Normally I would have 10 pts to spare and I would spend those on the first level of thaum. Now, I got 5 pts extra which I said went to CP.

    u47Byh3.jpg

    Here are the logs:

    ivdNdwR.jpg
    JFrwvPv.jpg

    I died so many times... it's not even funny. At first I was using Sudden Storm on tab, COI, icy terrain and steal. Wasn't working well, took forever to kill, so switched Chilling with Storm Spell. Got a bit of dps but still couldn't survive. Switch icy for shard and I stayed alive a bit longer because of the prones and allowed to kill me some of the wolves but not the rangers. Not enough damage to kill them even if I crit. Normally I have enough to kill them because I have high cha, high crit severity (80%) + p. vorp and have the following pets, dancing blade, wild hunt, blink dog and kobold. Everything falls short. I consider myself moderate geared and I am having a hard time with these changes. I fear the new CWs are going to be in a world of hurt. There will be no place for them, pvp nor pve. I don't know what kind of feedback you are looking for devs?
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