lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited July 2014
I highly doubt they will increase Deep Gash, it's a 5% dmg boost in the overal dps which is ok for a t1 feat according to Crush, however, I would be glad if it were increased based in our Power stat.
I highly doubt they will increase Deep Gash, it's a 5% dmg boost in the overal dps which is ok for a t1 feat according to Crush, however, I would be glad if it were increased based in our Power stat.
have you tested it?
it gives 20% out of power, so that means if the gwf has 10000 power it will do 2000 DOT
but that DOT is 2000 / 6 = 333 DAMAGE / second.
how is that ok? and when will GWF have 10k power in pvp?
the most i could stack was 7,3k power.
other classes do DOT without this absurds conditions.
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
have you tested it?
it gives 20% out of power, so that means if the gwf has 10000 power it will do 2000 DOT
but that DOT is 2000 / 6 = 333 DAMAGE / second.
how is that ok? and when will GWF have 10k power in pvp?
the most i could stack was 7,3k power.
other classes do DOT without this absurds conditions.
I've tested everything in the GWF. It is not a PvP feat, it's mainly for PvE, a constant 5% of your total DPS in the ACT. I didn't mention that is ok, I just wrote what Crush said about it.
For us it's only a feat, not an At-will or Encounter like the other classes, that's why their DPS is higher, it's related to the weapon dmg, damage bonus, etc.
I've tested everything in the GWF. It is not a PvP feat, it's mainly for PvE, a constant 5% of your total DPS in the ACT. I didn't mention that is ok, I just wrote what Crush said about it.
For us it's only a feat, not an At-will or Encounter like the other classes, that's why their DPS is higher, it's related to the weapon dmg, damage bonus, etc.
i know, dont say the obvious, but as we wanted to be fair with GWF from live being nerfed, somethin in another part of the world happened? other classes got real buffed, as we tried to make the game more balanced sayin it's ok to nerf that... other classes got so buffed that you can't even compete with them anymore... if in this new week there won't be any updates to gwf i doubt there will be any GWF in pvp.
and that %5 in ACT is because u have 12.5 k power without any buffs , and you are a PVE done that test in PVE where you kill adds... that doesn't mean it can't be buffed for PVP reasons...
and if you say its a PVE feat...than tell me what are the PVP feats...as there aren't any chooseable feats that can compete with other classes.
and all classes have DOT in PVP, and deep gash is the only one for gwf..
LE:
change Intimidation feat instead of 50% threat, it shold be 50% reduced cooldowns
make either come and get or darring shout to be unblocked.
make that the damage from daring shout / come and get it ,should consider the marks increased damage.
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klangeddinMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 882Arc User
I still think that Armour of Bahamut and plate agility should be mooved deeper in the protector tree, or everyone will just go conqueror and take these 2 feats to minmax offense and defense.
I doubt any conqueror would skip the -10% on cooldowns from Tactician Tree, that's a a feat that increases both dps and CC.
I doubt any conqueror would skip the -10% on cooldowns from Tactician Tree, that's a a feat that increases both dps and CC.
I agree - I really like the bahamut more than the deflect now, but they are such low numbers that it doesn't really matter. Protector's big deal is reduced drain of stamina, and the capstone poc'n off KV. If the feats did anything significant (not many GF feats do) - I can see it being moved a little deeper, but the middle protector tree is just soo mehhhh, and the Tact Capstone is just not very good atm.
armor of bahumut isnt worth the 5 points the buff is so sort for me to even consider taking it while it sounds nice i think ill be skipping this on unless they increase the buff duration.
however as protector i will be getting deflect ac shield stam and im not sure if i would go brawling and the sos one and extra 5% dr reduction on sos hits is pretty decent and obviously the capstone now that guarded assault and kv proc it.
kinda wondering if im going down that route to even skip the capstone and go 3 in protector and 3 in something else which would leave 1 point somewhere who knows most of our feats are not all that appealing
Apart from the lack of gap closing options, also the removal of ANY PRONE from a melee class with no immunities or stealth and the removal of roar original effect of rooting just kills the class.
Takedown nerfed in damage and no prone. Which is an indirect nerf to IBS damage too.
Removed root from roar. Another useless power and no real ranged cc for squishy destroyers who are now even squishier due to unstoppable (class mechaninc) double nerf (determination gain much slower, which could be ok, if they did not nerf the mechanic itself for the whole class).
Destroyer purpose useless in PvP since a destroyer will never last long enough to hit the enemy and will just be chasing the enemies non-stop, hitting them very few times.
Slower determination gain= less unstoppable would have been enough for unstoppable.
Also, damage nerf to takedown and fix to roar would have been enough.
And TR charges.
Nothing else. But they nerfed everything to the ground.
Right now you struggle to catch the CWs with their faster and more teleports, or the perma TRs, and when you catch them, you stun them for 1 second or so, hit with a pathetic IBS that usually gets deflected against the halfling PvP tank builds, then start again.
In the meanwhile, the enemies deal you a TON of damage.
I think the changes are appropriate. Instead of being the single best or tied-for-best class option for every single gameplay scenario, GWFs will now be performing a role and some other classes will actually be better then them at some things.
In PVP, they will maintain their status as the best class to have fighting alongside you, but will not be the best 1v1.
In PVE they will remain great.
This is good for class diversity. If anything, they're still too good considering not many classes are so great in PVE and PVP, but overall it seems like good changes.
The only concern I have is that GF has been buffed so much it's just replaced GWF as "the best class" for "everything".
It now hits for less than any other class, and survives about as much as a CW, but is not ranged. Can't CC a thing cause stun is useless.
You say it will "keep it's status as best class to have alongside you". Then you say GF is "best class for everything. But, apart from that, almost any other class other than DC now can survive more, CC more, DPS more in PvP. Have you tested a GWF on preview or are you just talking out of speculations?
It's still "too good"? Please, go test it in PvP...
Feedback:
tested against HR: have to lose 50% HP to have 8 seconds 30% DR unstoppable. This is not acceptable for a class mechanic, and pretty much a lot worse than any other class tab skill. Increase determination gain so that GWFs can have full determination bar with 35% HPs removed. Considering any other class have tab skill at no cost, it's a bit too much of a nerf if a GWF must lose so much health to be able to use its class mechanic.
Again: sprint is not reliable for defense and gap closing the way it is now. Tested it with 1k movement and all stamina regeneration boons and stuff. You can pretty much use it to cover what any ranged class can do with dodge moves plus a little bit more which is NOT enough to close gap, defend and close gap again when the enemy dodges. It is pretty much enough to close gap and chase the dodging enemy a couple of times. Not to defend, and not enough to chase the tons of dodges HRs and CWs have, or chase a perma TR. Plus, the delay makes it not good to use it for defense.
Make it a short bursts move like punishing charge, with enough bursts to close the gap and chase the enemy, leaving a bit of room to use it defensively. Remove CC immunity from it if you buff determination gain.
Give back 1 prone to the class or remove prones from all the other classes. It's laughable that a HR or CW can prone me, but once i catch them, i can briefly stun them and that's it. Seriously, a little melee HR can prone a heavy GWF, and a GWF crushing down his 2h weapon on the TR...stuns him for a little more than 1 second.
Stun duration increase will not change the fact that every other class got a buff, and GWFs got a double nerf on damage. The GWF takes a lot of damage to be able to catch the enemy. When he does reach the enemy, he has that 1 power, IBS, to deal a heavy blow. Now it's a normal blow at best. Which means the enemy lands approximatively 10 normal blows on you before you can land 1 normal blow on him.
You should either make the GWF a class able to deal a heavy blow but struggling more than in mod3 to catch the enemy, OR a class able to land normal blows but that can catch the enemy easily.
Right now GWFs struggle to catch up with the enemy, while taking loads of damage, before being able to land a single normal blow.
in pve ; with half power of my gwf, my ranger, t1 weapon has a Aimed higher than my ibs full stack (16.8 non critical).
and now, less resistant (what is the excuse now?)
The power you have on that HR isn't all that bad really. It's hard to get power in PVP gear. So you're looking at about what any HR is going to do with Aimed Shot... in ARCHERY spec, meaning they'll be the squishiest class in PVP if specced that way.
Not to mention the main buff that's giving you that damage is CUT IN HALF against players. And you have to hit someone first to apply Prey (the debuff), meaning any chance of surprise which is your best shot of using Aimed Shot is gone.
No need for an excuse, on anyone in PVP it's going to do tons less damage than on a dummy, not to mention Aimed Shot is almost impossible to use in PVP because if someone breathes on you while casting you get interrupted.
You can't interrupt IBS.
tl:dr You'll almost never be able to hit anyone with Aimed Shot in actual PVP, and if you're specced that way, you'll be dead before you can.
It now hits for less than any other class, and survives about as much as a CW, but is not ranged. Can't CC a thing cause stun is useless.
You say it will "keep it's status as best class to have alongside you". Then you say GF is "best class for everything. But, apart from that, almost any other class other than DC now can survive more, CC more, DPS more in PvP.
No class can burst DPS as fast as a Destroyer thanks to IBS. That isn't changing. It's just a matter of being able to hit with it. If you can't manage to CC someone yourself, then follow up on someone else's CC.
GWF can provide great CC or great DPS to compliment whatever anyone else is bringing.
The 1v1 specialists (HR and TR) don't bring either, really, especially not CC, and nowhere near the burst potential.
The stuns are not useless against HRs at least because we have no CC-break. CW's don't either.
Right now GWFs struggle to catch up with the enemy, while taking loads of damage, before being able to land a single normal blow.
Sounds balanced to you?
I'm talking about group play here in Domination, which is what most of Domination consists of. 1v1 scenarios don't matter except on a node, and I don't think it's a problem if other classes are better suited for that aspect of the game.
Like I said I think overall it has potential to be good changes for the game, unless GF's buffs were too much, in which case instead of seeing teams with 4 GWFs we'll just see teams of 4 GFs.
I did a comparison in reference to pve. I'm not arguing about pvp.
in pvp just change the tree and the gulf between gwf and hr is even greater.
hr has a powerful tree in pve, a powerful tree in pvp and an "interesting tree."
gwf ... nothing now (a meh pve). but, again, i dont care about pvp. but the "balance" that you see in these changes has much more to do with "karma" than equality... impossible dont see that...
I did a comparison in reference to pve. I'm not arguing about pvp.
in pvp just change the tree and the gulf between gwf and hr is even greater.
hr has a powerful tree in pve, a powerful tree in pvp and an "interesting tree."
gwf ... nothing now (a meh pve). but, again, i dont care about pvp. but the "balance" that you see in these changes has much more to do with "karma" than equality... impossible dont see that...
OK well in PVE yes that's nice damage, but it's single target. HRs have almost no AOE abilities.
Agree with determination from % of HP, 30-33% for full bar, 15-17% for half bar. Right now, it's too much damage taken to use a nerfed unstoppable for 8 seconds. My latest test is 17-20k HP against a HR hitting me with some mixed attacks. Leaves a ton of room to slow the burst and pretty much never allow a GWF to go Unstoppable, while keeping healing depression up.
It's a class mechanic, and you nerfed it too much.
To give a good PvP move to SM too:
allow punishing charge to stun the target for 3 seconds if it lands. It's a short burst and other classes can just move away to avoid it. But at least would be a "proactive" way to close gap and catch enemies.
Or either make flourish viable. Aka: fast animation so that it cannot be easily dodged/ parried cause the animation allows the other classes to see it coming and make it crush on their immunity moves.
give Weapon Master Strike marking ability.
give bravery +15% deflect back.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Apart from the lack of gap closing options, also the removal of ANY PRONE from a melee class with no immunities or stealth and the removal of roar original effect of rooting just kills the class.
Sprint gives CC immunity DR and run speed = Gap Closer / Immunities!
Unstoppable gives attack speed, CC immunity, Healing, Determination gain = Gap Closer / Immunities!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
anyway i find it funny with new belts,kits GF ill reach 70k hp and they can pretty much perma block on preview so gl killing 1
The GF also only blocks 80% of damage which means he WILL ALWAYS be losing HP. Even with a guard that never ends we will be losing HP.
And if we are honest, as the TANK the GF should have the largest HP pool, highest DR and highest deflection of all the classes. I do not understand why players of the other classes demand the level of tankiness of a class that carries a shield and wears full plate armour.
The biggest mistake they made was swapping paths. The GWF should have gotten its own 2nd paragon path that focused on AOE damage (not prones) and a gap closer while the GF should have gotten its own single target path, the all of this could have been avoided.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
The CW using Shield on tab, giving up his strongest encounter spell. The video being from before the reduction on Shield and Assailing Force (getting the latter to proc being the probable reason for using Ray of Frost), and from before they boosted the stun time on FLS and Takedown. And the CW being one of the highest rated ones in the game. And he still brought the CW down to like 30%. Context like this is rather important.
CW isnt even trying to dodge and u say he brought CW health down , lol a CW range class with less DR than a tank is able to kill a tank without dodging with just shield . i say its the most unbalanced thing.
that video show how much GWF has been nerfed not being able to do anything in close combat. and as u said without using major spells. and GWF used daily and still died while CW killed him with encounters only.
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someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
The CW using Shield on tab, giving up his strongest encounter spell. The video being from before the reduction on Shield and Assailing Force (getting the latter to proc being the probable reason for using Ray of Frost), and from before they boosted the stun time on FLS and Takedown. And the CW being one of the highest rated ones in the game. And he still brought the CW down to like 30%. Context like this is rather important.
A CW (ranged class wearing a robe) is FACETANKING a GWF, DPS melee class with mail armor, using frost rays and shield only.
A CW facetanking a GWF in melee range should get DESTROYED, if we talk about balance.
Context is important.
Feedback:
Fix devastating critical. It is not giving the 15% added crit severity on preview.
Give one prone to GWFs. EVERY class can prone, except us. Does not make sense. At all.
Make sprint more responsive to bring it in line with other dodge moves. It's not responsive, delayed, rubberbanded sometimes. Not reliable. Plus, increase stamina base regeneration and, if you really want it in line with other dodges, increase damage resistance.
Need faster determination gain, make it 50% determination for 15% HP lost, full bar for 33% HP lost. Right now it's full bar for 50% (!!) HP lost. Not viable, expecially with buffs to other classes.
Sprint gives CC immunity DR and run speed = Gap Closer / Immunities!
Unstoppable gives attack speed, CC immunity, Healing, Determination gain = Gap Closer / Immunities!
and GF still has more damage than GWF , GF can able to stop 80% of dmg in block which is more than a GWF in his unstoppable.
and an 80k dmg by a GF and GWF can only do than much dmg with img in destroyer path with buffs provided by other classes. GF as sand alone doin more dmg than a GWF with buffs.
Sprint gives CC immunity DR and run speed = Gap Closer / Immunities!
Unstoppable gives attack speed, CC immunity, Healing, Determination gain = Gap Closer / Immunities!
Sprint allows now 7 small bursts the lenght of a HR dodge, with all stamina boons and mobility you can get from feats and boons. HRs are a RANGED CLASS and have 5 of these dodges. For example.
This means the GWF must use his 7 charges to close the huge gap HRs/ CWs can attack you from for the CC immunity to be useful. Then, once he reaches the HR/CW, he must have still 5 bursts to chase the dodging HR/ CW. And some more to use it for defense.
With some simple math, it's not enough.
Uh, before you talk to me about threat rush 3 charges and punishing charge: HRs have, to say, marauders excape, and CWs still have push, for example, and the % chance to repel hitting enemy (don't remember the name). Plus CW stamina regenerates much faster, allwoing them to teleport faster.
Also: Unstoppable now activates after you lose a big chunk of HP. 50% HP lost to have 8 seconds unstoppable. It does not give determination gain (it consumes determination. Where do you get such weird infos??), the healing is nerfed to a 2,5% HP healed from unstoppable IF you feat for it. Which means you lose 50% HP, you get back 2,5%. Wow. Attack speed is on at-wills like sure strike, decreases the damage from at-wills and is not applied to encounters (your encounters are not faster. Or at least, it's not noticeable).
Your theorycrafting is wrong. I don't know how to explain it to you again...plus, i don't know where you get your infos, but you say a lot of false stuff about what a GWF can do...Try to play one please.
Ayroux, just a question: with best gear all rank 10's exc...how much can a PvP GWF hit for now on preview? Just to have a comparison...cause it seems to me that GFs now hit harder than GWFs, other than being tankier.
My IBS seems to hit for a lot less...may be also cause devastatig critical is not adding 15% critical severity as it should.
Feedback:
could be a nice way to "indirectly" buff our survivability, to allow unstoppable to refill our stamina bar
plus make sprint more reliable, more responsive, to be on par with other shift moves from other classes.
Also, as said multiple times, fix determination gain to be 33% total HP for full bar, 15% total HP for half bar.
Well are you talking Destroyer or GWF? Cause that makes a difference and also, the new 20% mark isnt on the PTR yet - so we dont know that part either.
I would say that a Dest GWF (once mark is fixed on PTR) will still hit harder with say IBS than a GFs encounters. But a GF has alot more encounters that hit harder than GWFs encounters. Like a GF can have multiple encounters with high damage, while a GWF really only has IBS.
Also GFs can still prone via Bull Charge, while GWFs cant. GFs have more "gap closers" as well, with unlimited Threat Rush.
The biggest issue with scenarios like you posted above is Knights Challenge. That encounter REALLY needs a rework because in all truth, its just a cheese move thats going to cause ALOT of tears on the forums. Now its also toggled so a GF can get his moves off, then cancel it.
I agree 100% on the Deter gain being about 16.5% HP lost for 1/2 a bar and 33% for a full unstoppable. This really needs to happen. Makes it level across all playing fields IMO.
Determination should not work off % HP lost. There is no reason to punish a player for choosing to have more HP. Going off percent means you have to take more damage to get just as many unstoppables off. That defeats the point of raising HP for survivability. Same goes for gaining more defense/deflect. Just because a person has defensive stats does not mean they should be able to use it any less.
I disagree. HP pool gives you more basic survivability AND boosts regeneration AND eventually, if you feat for it, Unstoppable recovery.
Unstoppable, on the other hand, is a class mechanic, and should work the same REGARDLESS the build. You can feat to have certain boosts, but, like for every other class, you can't gear to boost your class mechanic.
And the only way to ensure it works the same, is that it works on % of HP lost. Else, a 60k GWF would be able to go unstoppable 20 times, while a 40k GWF can use his class mechanic less times? Only thing influencing a class mechanic should be feats and powers.
As a class mechanic, it should work the same with any build.
Sure thing, btw, is that the current determination gain in module 4 feels too slow or not working properly.
Just as a feedback:
today got into a domination match with other guys. Tried sentinel build, got the impression in domination i could hit for more than in IWD and fight better BUT my team was winning/ dominating so it may be just that i was having an easy time in a team fight. Didn't get into real 1v1s and Godmode and the HRs cold pretty much hit me really hard.
Need to get used to sprint as a defensive move, but i really think it should be more responsive.
Sentinel seems to perfmor better for me in PvP so far. Destroyer just...not reliable. Being so much more squishy, it's difficult to fully unleash it's offensive potential. Could pretty much be a "group" fighter to jump in--->hit hard--->jump out and repeat. Not a brawler, nor a 1v1er. I'd say support DPS and good to finish off enemies.
I never understand the topics about GWF changes and CW changes, in both I see most people claiming that with the new changes they are at a huge disadvantage against the other class. CWs say they have it too hard against the new GWFs and GWFs say they have it very hard against the new CWs. :S
I never understand the topics about GWF changes and CW changes, in both I see most people claiming that with the new changes they are at a huge disadvantage against the other class. CWs say they have it too hard against the new GWFs and GWFs say they have it very hard against the new CWs. :S
CW will, I think, be always the most "useless" class in PVP because for a CC class, each class has immunity dodges. There are no changes to do, it's just a fatality .
I disagree. HP pool gives you more basic survivability AND boosts regeneration AND eventually, if you feat for it, Unstoppable recovery.
Unstoppable, on the other hand, is a class mechanic, and should work the same REGARDLESS the build. You can feat to have certain boosts, but, like for every other class, you can't gear to boost your class mechanic.
And the only way to ensure it works the same, is that it works on % of HP lost. Else, a 60k GWF would be able to go unstoppable 20 times, while a 40k GWF can use his class mechanic less times? Only thing influencing a class mechanic should be feats and powers.
As a class mechanic, it should work the same with any build.
Sure thing, btw, is that the current determination gain in module 4 feels too slow or not working properly.
Just as a feedback:
today got into a domination match with other guys. Tried sentinel build, got the impression in domination i could hit for more than in IWD and fight better BUT my team was winning/ dominating so it may be just that i was having an easy time in a team fight. Didn't get into real 1v1s and Godmode and the HRs cold pretty much hit me really hard.
Need to get used to sprint as a defensive move, but i really think it should be more responsive.
Sentinel seems to perfmor better for me in PvP so far. Destroyer just...not reliable. Being so much more squishy, it's difficult to fully unleash it's offensive potential. Could pretty much be a "group" fighter to jump in--->hit hard--->jump out and repeat. Not a brawler, nor a 1v1er. I'd say support DPS and good to finish off enemies.
Comments
GWF vs TR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGu27KA1P48
GWF vs HR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrIOqjqmBgE
GWF vs GF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIFPI6Yegk8
the build is as shown in pics
(http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/sho...=1#post8522571)
some lag is there but u will see GWF cant do ****.
have you tested it?
it gives 20% out of power, so that means if the gwf has 10000 power it will do 2000 DOT
but that DOT is 2000 / 6 = 333 DAMAGE / second.
how is that ok? and when will GWF have 10k power in pvp?
the most i could stack was 7,3k power.
other classes do DOT without this absurds conditions.
I've tested everything in the GWF. It is not a PvP feat, it's mainly for PvE, a constant 5% of your total DPS in the ACT. I didn't mention that is ok, I just wrote what Crush said about it.
For us it's only a feat, not an At-will or Encounter like the other classes, that's why their DPS is higher, it's related to the weapon dmg, damage bonus, etc.
i know, dont say the obvious, but as we wanted to be fair with GWF from live being nerfed, somethin in another part of the world happened? other classes got real buffed, as we tried to make the game more balanced sayin it's ok to nerf that... other classes got so buffed that you can't even compete with them anymore... if in this new week there won't be any updates to gwf i doubt there will be any GWF in pvp.
and that %5 in ACT is because u have 12.5 k power without any buffs , and you are a PVE done that test in PVE where you kill adds... that doesn't mean it can't be buffed for PVP reasons...
and if you say its a PVE feat...than tell me what are the PVP feats...as there aren't any chooseable feats that can compete with other classes.
and all classes have DOT in PVP, and deep gash is the only one for gwf..
LE:
change Intimidation feat instead of 50% threat, it shold be 50% reduced cooldowns
make either come and get or darring shout to be unblocked.
make that the damage from daring shout / come and get it ,should consider the marks increased damage.
I doubt any conqueror would skip the -10% on cooldowns from Tactician Tree, that's a a feat that increases both dps and CC.
I agree - I really like the bahamut more than the deflect now, but they are such low numbers that it doesn't really matter. Protector's big deal is reduced drain of stamina, and the capstone poc'n off KV. If the feats did anything significant (not many GF feats do) - I can see it being moved a little deeper, but the middle protector tree is just soo mehhhh, and the Tact Capstone is just not very good atm.
however as protector i will be getting deflect ac shield stam and im not sure if i would go brawling and the sos one and extra 5% dr reduction on sos hits is pretty decent and obviously the capstone now that guarded assault and kv proc it.
kinda wondering if im going down that route to even skip the capstone and go 3 in protector and 3 in something else which would leave 1 point somewhere who knows most of our feats are not all that appealing
Takedown nerfed in damage and no prone. Which is an indirect nerf to IBS damage too.
Removed root from roar. Another useless power and no real ranged cc for squishy destroyers who are now even squishier due to unstoppable (class mechaninc) double nerf (determination gain much slower, which could be ok, if they did not nerf the mechanic itself for the whole class).
Destroyer purpose useless in PvP since a destroyer will never last long enough to hit the enemy and will just be chasing the enemies non-stop, hitting them very few times.
Slower determination gain= less unstoppable would have been enough for unstoppable.
Also, damage nerf to takedown and fix to roar would have been enough.
And TR charges.
Nothing else. But they nerfed everything to the ground.
Right now you struggle to catch the CWs with their faster and more teleports, or the perma TRs, and when you catch them, you stun them for 1 second or so, hit with a pathetic IBS that usually gets deflected against the halfling PvP tank builds, then start again.
In the meanwhile, the enemies deal you a TON of damage.
It now hits for less than any other class, and survives about as much as a CW, but is not ranged. Can't CC a thing cause stun is useless.
You say it will "keep it's status as best class to have alongside you". Then you say GF is "best class for everything. But, apart from that, almost any other class other than DC now can survive more, CC more, DPS more in PvP. Have you tested a GWF on preview or are you just talking out of speculations?
It's still "too good"? Please, go test it in PvP...
Feedback:
tested against HR: have to lose 50% HP to have 8 seconds 30% DR unstoppable. This is not acceptable for a class mechanic, and pretty much a lot worse than any other class tab skill. Increase determination gain so that GWFs can have full determination bar with 35% HPs removed. Considering any other class have tab skill at no cost, it's a bit too much of a nerf if a GWF must lose so much health to be able to use its class mechanic.
Again: sprint is not reliable for defense and gap closing the way it is now. Tested it with 1k movement and all stamina regeneration boons and stuff. You can pretty much use it to cover what any ranged class can do with dodge moves plus a little bit more which is NOT enough to close gap, defend and close gap again when the enemy dodges. It is pretty much enough to close gap and chase the dodging enemy a couple of times. Not to defend, and not enough to chase the tons of dodges HRs and CWs have, or chase a perma TR. Plus, the delay makes it not good to use it for defense.
Make it a short bursts move like punishing charge, with enough bursts to close the gap and chase the enemy, leaving a bit of room to use it defensively. Remove CC immunity from it if you buff determination gain.
Give back 1 prone to the class or remove prones from all the other classes. It's laughable that a HR or CW can prone me, but once i catch them, i can briefly stun them and that's it. Seriously, a little melee HR can prone a heavy GWF, and a GWF crushing down his 2h weapon on the TR...stuns him for a little more than 1 second.
Stun duration increase will not change the fact that every other class got a buff, and GWFs got a double nerf on damage. The GWF takes a lot of damage to be able to catch the enemy. When he does reach the enemy, he has that 1 power, IBS, to deal a heavy blow. Now it's a normal blow at best. Which means the enemy lands approximatively 10 normal blows on you before you can land 1 normal blow on him.
You should either make the GWF a class able to deal a heavy blow but struggling more than in mod3 to catch the enemy, OR a class able to land normal blows but that can catch the enemy easily.
Right now GWFs struggle to catch up with the enemy, while taking loads of damage, before being able to land a single normal blow.
Sounds balanced to you?
The power you have on that HR isn't all that bad really. It's hard to get power in PVP gear. So you're looking at about what any HR is going to do with Aimed Shot... in ARCHERY spec, meaning they'll be the squishiest class in PVP if specced that way.
Not to mention the main buff that's giving you that damage is CUT IN HALF against players. And you have to hit someone first to apply Prey (the debuff), meaning any chance of surprise which is your best shot of using Aimed Shot is gone.
No need for an excuse, on anyone in PVP it's going to do tons less damage than on a dummy, not to mention Aimed Shot is almost impossible to use in PVP because if someone breathes on you while casting you get interrupted.
You can't interrupt IBS.
tl:dr You'll almost never be able to hit anyone with Aimed Shot in actual PVP, and if you're specced that way, you'll be dead before you can.
No class can burst DPS as fast as a Destroyer thanks to IBS. That isn't changing. It's just a matter of being able to hit with it. If you can't manage to CC someone yourself, then follow up on someone else's CC.
GWF can provide great CC or great DPS to compliment whatever anyone else is bringing.
The 1v1 specialists (HR and TR) don't bring either, really, especially not CC, and nowhere near the burst potential.
The stuns are not useless against HRs at least because we have no CC-break. CW's don't either.
I'm talking about group play here in Domination, which is what most of Domination consists of. 1v1 scenarios don't matter except on a node, and I don't think it's a problem if other classes are better suited for that aspect of the game.
Like I said I think overall it has potential to be good changes for the game, unless GF's buffs were too much, in which case instead of seeing teams with 4 GWFs we'll just see teams of 4 GFs.
in pvp just change the tree and the gulf between gwf and hr is even greater.
hr has a powerful tree in pve, a powerful tree in pvp and an "interesting tree."
gwf ... nothing now (a meh pve). but, again, i dont care about pvp. but the "balance" that you see in these changes has much more to do with "karma" than equality... impossible dont see that...
OK well in PVE yes that's nice damage, but it's single target. HRs have almost no AOE abilities.
give Weapon Master Strike marking ability.
give bravery +15% deflect back.
Not soo good idea why ?
What if i dont want to mark as GWF destroyer .
Not all GWF born with 19k GS and perfect enchants
Sprint gives CC immunity DR and run speed = Gap Closer / Immunities!
Unstoppable gives attack speed, CC immunity, Healing, Determination gain = Gap Closer / Immunities!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
The GF also only blocks 80% of damage which means he WILL ALWAYS be losing HP. Even with a guard that never ends we will be losing HP.
And if we are honest, as the TANK the GF should have the largest HP pool, highest DR and highest deflection of all the classes. I do not understand why players of the other classes demand the level of tankiness of a class that carries a shield and wears full plate armour.
The biggest mistake they made was swapping paths. The GWF should have gotten its own 2nd paragon path that focused on AOE damage (not prones) and a gap closer while the GF should have gotten its own single target path, the all of this could have been avoided.
that video show how much GWF has been nerfed not being able to do anything in close combat. and as u said without using major spells. and GWF used daily and still died while CW killed him with encounters only.
Sprint.. slower stamina regeneration.
Unstoppable gives attack speed only for at-wills, Healing 2,5% (by HD) only with feats, Determination gain?!.
Dead🔪A CW (ranged class wearing a robe) is FACETANKING a GWF, DPS melee class with mail armor, using frost rays and shield only.
A CW facetanking a GWF in melee range should get DESTROYED, if we talk about balance.
Context is important.
Feedback:
Fix devastating critical. It is not giving the 15% added crit severity on preview.
Give one prone to GWFs. EVERY class can prone, except us. Does not make sense. At all.
Make sprint more responsive to bring it in line with other dodge moves. It's not responsive, delayed, rubberbanded sometimes. Not reliable. Plus, increase stamina base regeneration and, if you really want it in line with other dodges, increase damage resistance.
Need faster determination gain, make it 50% determination for 15% HP lost, full bar for 33% HP lost. Right now it's full bar for 50% (!!) HP lost. Not viable, expecially with buffs to other classes.
and an 80k dmg by a GF and GWF can only do than much dmg with img in destroyer path with buffs provided by other classes. GF as sand alone doin more dmg than a GWF with buffs.
Sprint allows now 7 small bursts the lenght of a HR dodge, with all stamina boons and mobility you can get from feats and boons. HRs are a RANGED CLASS and have 5 of these dodges. For example.
This means the GWF must use his 7 charges to close the huge gap HRs/ CWs can attack you from for the CC immunity to be useful. Then, once he reaches the HR/CW, he must have still 5 bursts to chase the dodging HR/ CW. And some more to use it for defense.
With some simple math, it's not enough.
Uh, before you talk to me about threat rush 3 charges and punishing charge: HRs have, to say, marauders excape, and CWs still have push, for example, and the % chance to repel hitting enemy (don't remember the name). Plus CW stamina regenerates much faster, allwoing them to teleport faster.
Also: Unstoppable now activates after you lose a big chunk of HP. 50% HP lost to have 8 seconds unstoppable. It does not give determination gain (it consumes determination. Where do you get such weird infos??), the healing is nerfed to a 2,5% HP healed from unstoppable IF you feat for it. Which means you lose 50% HP, you get back 2,5%. Wow. Attack speed is on at-wills like sure strike, decreases the damage from at-wills and is not applied to encounters (your encounters are not faster. Or at least, it's not noticeable).
Your theorycrafting is wrong. I don't know how to explain it to you again...plus, i don't know where you get your infos, but you say a lot of false stuff about what a GWF can do...Try to play one please.
Well are you talking Destroyer or GWF? Cause that makes a difference and also, the new 20% mark isnt on the PTR yet - so we dont know that part either.
I would say that a Dest GWF (once mark is fixed on PTR) will still hit harder with say IBS than a GFs encounters. But a GF has alot more encounters that hit harder than GWFs encounters. Like a GF can have multiple encounters with high damage, while a GWF really only has IBS.
Also GFs can still prone via Bull Charge, while GWFs cant. GFs have more "gap closers" as well, with unlimited Threat Rush.
The biggest issue with scenarios like you posted above is Knights Challenge. That encounter REALLY needs a rework because in all truth, its just a cheese move thats going to cause ALOT of tears on the forums. Now its also toggled so a GF can get his moves off, then cancel it.
I agree 100% on the Deter gain being about 16.5% HP lost for 1/2 a bar and 33% for a full unstoppable. This really needs to happen. Makes it level across all playing fields IMO.
I disagree. HP pool gives you more basic survivability AND boosts regeneration AND eventually, if you feat for it, Unstoppable recovery.
Unstoppable, on the other hand, is a class mechanic, and should work the same REGARDLESS the build. You can feat to have certain boosts, but, like for every other class, you can't gear to boost your class mechanic.
And the only way to ensure it works the same, is that it works on % of HP lost. Else, a 60k GWF would be able to go unstoppable 20 times, while a 40k GWF can use his class mechanic less times? Only thing influencing a class mechanic should be feats and powers.
As a class mechanic, it should work the same with any build.
Sure thing, btw, is that the current determination gain in module 4 feels too slow or not working properly.
Just as a feedback:
today got into a domination match with other guys. Tried sentinel build, got the impression in domination i could hit for more than in IWD and fight better BUT my team was winning/ dominating so it may be just that i was having an easy time in a team fight. Didn't get into real 1v1s and Godmode and the HRs cold pretty much hit me really hard.
Need to get used to sprint as a defensive move, but i really think it should be more responsive.
Sentinel seems to perfmor better for me in PvP so far. Destroyer just...not reliable. Being so much more squishy, it's difficult to fully unleash it's offensive potential. Could pretty much be a "group" fighter to jump in--->hit hard--->jump out and repeat. Not a brawler, nor a 1v1er. I'd say support DPS and good to finish off enemies.
CW will, I think, be always the most "useless" class in PVP because for a CC class, each class has immunity dodges. There are no changes to do, it's just a fatality
so you feel the power of INTIMIDATION FEAT