BUMP! I hope the developers are watching this review and go for further GWF boost. Planning to quit / delete account if Mod 4 don't hold substantial value. Not in the mood to make another class - going to play another game. There is plenty of evidence here.
If they can't figure it out, it means the developers lack understanding of the game mechanics and I don't want to be a part of it. What is really bad , is they are making a tank melee class which can't even stand out on a 1v1. Group wise it's worse. Looking for a different game already.
How are you shocked by this? GWF has a total of 3k defense stats.
So, that's a GWF with a mix of rank 7-10 enchantments, blue artifacts, gemless blue shirt and pants and blue accessories, overall looking badly specced (29k hit points, probably lacking in other defensive stats too), fighting among others GODMODE, a BiS GF? The only thing wrong here is the expectation that the result of those fights should be different than what they were. Given the gear and spec difference, balance there looks good.
People..... You don't need 47k hit points as a GWF to be competitive. I've fought God Mode in domination and won, with the proper gear right now Destroyers are competitive. Yes the above poster's gear isn't straight but whose to say his spec is off.
I run Purified BI, in Domination with 25k hit points and do very well. Get off this Hit point hang up.
Whats on the preview server right now makes Destroyer dead in the water. Base damage is in the toilet...
So, that's a GWF with a mix of rank 7-10 enchantments, blue artifacts, gemless blue shirt and pants and blue accessories, overall looking badly specced (29k hit points, probably lacking in other defensive stats too), fighting among others GODMODE, a BiS GF? The only thing wrong here is the expectation that the result of those fights should be different than what they were. Given the gear and spec difference, balance there looks good.
yeah probably, but let's not close an eye, of the massive damage HR , havin DOT and now massive protection as deflect, and not close an eye of the CW that procs assailum 1/5 sec that does almost 8k damage that can't be stopped ... and the burst damage that GF does atm goes through deflect/defense... gwf destroyer burst damage doesnt go through their defense/deflect as well as theirs...and not forget the TR class, that is almost equivalent to a companion ... as he loses with everyclass at 1vs1, and they should be assassins...
but nah, now depends on the builds as people can try different builds, as i found a sentinel build that is rather good
Please do not nerf the GWF further, the fix to Roar and their prones is more than enough. Now I don't play a GWF myself, however I have endured over 100 matches in PVP with Roar spamming addicts and I want my revenge come MOD 4.
Please do not overshadow his by giving GWF's an excuse for their quick deaths. I would prefer to see a glimmer of hope in their eyes before they roll backward
People..... You don't need 47k hit points as a GWF to be competitive. I've fought God Mode in domination and won, with the proper gear right now Destroyers are competitive. Yes the above poster's gear isn't straight but whose to say his spec is off.
I run Purified BI, in Domination with 25k hit points and do very well. Get off this Hit point hang up.
Whats on the preview server right now makes Destroyer dead in the water. Base damage is in the toilet...
You're not supposed to be able to fight rank 10 GF with your rank 7 25K HP GWF. The fact that you can stand against GODMODE with less gear is a game mistake that is going to be rectified.
The GWF who posted those links does not belong in PvP (Silvery in Offense? PvE accessories?). He came unprepared and got owned, no longer being carried by class mechanics.
Feedback should come from properly geared and specced individuals.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Takedown has a number of annoying properties that does not make it reasonable. There's an aspect of delay or lag to it, maybe something to do with the animation and effect not being properly synced. It will often look like you got away, only for you to be proned anyway some distance away from the GWF. This issue is probably the same as why GWFs will be hit with effects from red zones even though they sprint out. Second, it's got a low cooldown (especially after the Destroyer boosts) -- far lower than other remaining prones in the game. And if it misses, the cooldown is lower still, making it available for very frequent use. That made it the most frequently usable prone move in the game, which can be followed up by the most damaging single-target encounter power around.
.
Thats because its a lock on ability. This was added when they changed Takedown to have a slight movement forward when used, before it was absurdly difficult to land a hit with it. That same thing happens with flourish. It has a soft lock on it. So even if you're out of range, if the GWF uses the ability at the exact moment you're in range it will hit you even if you're out of range normally. The ability has to be used directly before the opponent dodges to do that. When that happens the GWF has to sprint over to you, and by the time they use thier next move, you've gotten or just about gotten up to be able to dodge whatevers coming next (if its not the CC chain of frontline surge coming next). Yeah takedown could set up for a an indomniable battle strike. But you couldnt really pull that encounter off normally anyway. Your opponent has to literally stand directly in front of the GWF to get hit by that. Who in thier right mind would try to fight a GWF in their face? Another GWF wouldnt even do that. The only alternative way is hoping a CW is around and uses Entangling force for you to sprint over fast enough to hopefully get that hit off. Indomnible Battle Strike his harder to place than Wicked Reminder, but slower in activation and that ability literally is only point Blank range. Battle strike has enough space to fit 3 people in the most absolute perfect alignment which is plausible in pve but near impossible without prones. Roar used to be a alternative to Takedown, and all that was wrong with that was that it was going through CC immunity. Now they took the whole immobilize away and made it an interrupt.
(On the subject of Roar for a moment, I find it funny that I was using roar the whole time on two of my GWF's since launch, and always thought it didnt go through immunity so I out right avoided using it as one would expect to not use it, and soon as people realized it goes through immunity they start abusing it to get the whole skill wiped out. lol )
Yes I forgot about that one, CW has shard of avalanche, but thats is really difficult to use in pvp unless your fighting in a large group bundled up. With the large telegraphed ball, you can pretty much move out of the way of that not even needing to dodge. Getting hit by the prone of that is less concerning than the actual damage the encounter does. Only real way you can get hit by the explosion part of this encounter is if you're controlled the entire time or completely unaware its coming from a blind spot.
Back then, GF's had the two prone encounters and two prone dailies, they were annoying but not nessecarily problematic, because they didnt damage that much. They utilized it as a way to control the field, instead of directly smashing everything the way GWF's does now. When GF's were in trouble, that offense was thier defense, because when thier shield was down, they were just sitting ducks unless you dodged out of those encounters and controlled them from thier blindspot.
GWF's didnt have such a thing when they got them. They had no blind spots because of their unstoppable if you so happen to evade thier prones. The only way to really combat GWF's after the introduction of the Iron Vanguard was back the way you had to combat sentinels. You had to use prones on them, so they couldnt activate unstoppable, since its the only CC that they cant use unstoppable to break out of. That meant it had to take another fighter to do it, and usually more than one, the problem was once they catch you first, you were basically done. Because of that CC chain. Pretty much kills or mostly kills any opponent they attack unhindered because of unstoppable.
and this is the "balance" both whiners and DEVs wants on PvP for GWFs??? O__oUu
So, here is my feedback:
Swordmaster GWF-class need a BOOST overall right now.
First, they need a PRONE as GFs, HRs, CWs and even WARLOCKS classes have.
Make Flourish CC inmune, with faster animation and RANGED (give it the range that Creshedo has) and PRONE as FLS still does
Steel Blitz needs a buff on damage and more proc rate
Steel Grace must be fixed. It only works son PvE, not on PvP
Roar must ROOT enemies
BTW, i accept suggestions about my performance, if any. XD
Edit to add a new video
What spec are you?
What gear do you have?
What Paragon are you playing? ( I thought I saw Flourish SM? )
What are your base stats? Your Regen and Life steal seemed really low, especially in Owpvp I do not think there is Healing Depression.
You could have played Gearless and it would have told us the same information... If you are going to make video duels for feedback one would need ALL the information not selected tid bits.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited July 2014
I have fears as a average sort of GWF that this class will not remain viable, I only tested the initial patch, I dont see how this will work. Im sitting at 15.7k atm on my GWF and will admit to only testing after the first patch, but it was ridiculous, I just dont know what to say, instead of making some minor adjustments they swept the board of everything.
Maybe some of you that were closer to BiS dont feel this , but I do, I already rolled a HR , got it to 60 and am planning on switching, if that doesnt work, will go back to my CW as my primary. I feel bad for you that only would like to play a melee'er, but there was a nebulous balance in pvp already, other then the GF who couldve used some love , some change to CW and rework of the DC feats.. thats what this entire patch shouldve been about. Then if they felt the GWF was over-performing, then work on it.
Im a little tired of broken BiS builds effecting the other 80-90% of the players in this game. I felt the brunt of this on my DC already, when those types wouldnt die on a node pre tenacity, so what do the poor DC get in return, avg type players , get wacked too hard. This seems to be a common theme here. The player-base is much wider and broader then the BiS crowd and you have to figure this out cryptic.
As for once, you did a right commentary, i will give you an answer:
My spect is correct for PvP (Human with 22 STR, 19 con and 19 dex).
Grim Destroyer Set + R7-9 radiants and silver which i will change for darks (remember, these videos are meant as a NON ENDGAME CHARACTER). 5k Power, 3k crit, 2k ArP 2k Rec. 1k LS. Ancient Castle set with Perfect Vorpal and Normal Plaguefire
Swordmaster Destroyer (you saw correctly it due it got stopped many times yet it entered on CD too)... so, pls, tell me again that "play gearless" thing.
All these data you asked me is on the videos and on the comments. I will try it with more LS and Regen, let's see what happend then and see how do you make excuses about the thing that you wanted to GWFs to suffer. ;-)
I think gear will assist you greatly, I believe the players albeit the SW had substantially better PVP gear.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
As for once, you did a right commentary, i will give you an answer:
My spect is correct for PvP (Human with 22 STR, 19 con and 19 dex).
Grim Destroyer Set + R7-9 radiants and silver which i will change for darks (remember, these videos are meant as a NON ENDGAME CHARACTER). 5k Power, 3k crit, 2k ArP 2k Rec. 1k LS. Ancient Castle set with Perfect Vorpal and Normal Plaguefire
Swordmaster Destroyer (you saw correctly it due it got stopped many times yet it entered on CD too)... so, pls, tell me again that "play gearless" thing.
All these data you asked me is on the videos and on the comments. I will try it with more LS and Regen, let's see what happend then and see how do you make excuses about the thing that you wanted to GWFs to suffer. ;-)
bro what is with destroyer set in pvp ? and if u use plague fire 2k armp is enough , and ability score u should aim for full CON .
and the other dude who asked about what REgeneration and Lifesteal, are you kiddin me? Lifesteal for a gwf is useless in PVP , and healing depression applies in every area where is pvp (icwn,gauntlegrym,domination)
but even so, you are right, it doesn't matter what build you using atm or what strat... the point is
CW havin assailant + shield , they are very tanky and they can beat you in 1 rotation ...
HR alot of healing he has, and that makes them more tankier, i think the tankiest from the game...
GF i agree with their upgrade..
TR are the same as companions compared to the other classes buffs...
GWF has alot of broken things. and it should be overlooked more...
SW they are good, but a lil tankines and less prone timer, it's too long to stay 6 seconds on the ground... but even thou, didn't seen a SW wearing PVP profound set , or any PVE set that has a good bonus like High Vizier for CWs ..
eitherway, the video that he provided it's true... i tested it too, the only classes gwf can face atm are TR, SW and some GF (i didn't count a DC cuz they dont do damage as healers).
and i tested GWF sentinel... i last longer, but still no damage, and in like 30-40 seconds i am dead...
BTW: pvpin in icewind is to test the classes and simulate a 1vs1 fight from PVP domination, so no companion/active bonuses , or pots... cuz thats the idea of testing , as que is broken ..
Go Unstoppable or use Slam daily or use Punishing Charge to close the distance then interrupt with something like Slam or Takedown or any other interrupt depending on your Paragon Path. Look at all GWF's abilities, they have so many that can knock back or interrupt. Stunning Flourish as well, or even Frontline Surge... There's more I am forgetting too...
You see them casting? Unstoppable, Sprint to them (or Charge), and do a kockback or stun.
You can go Unstoppable only after taking damage. Gaining determination. And Unstoppable is delayed if you've been CCed now. Have you tested on preview? Determination builds slowly now. The GWF will lose half his HP before being able to go Unstoppable for 5 seconds.
Slam is a Daily. You can't really count on a Daily in PvP or base a strategy on it...What when you don't have slam up?
Takedown is easily dodged. Same with Flourish. Any half good CW can dodge these moves.
Punishing Charge can be interrupted.
New sprint has 40% more stamina now and CC control, which is not as much as whiners think. It's more sprint for sure and you can't get CCed while sprinting. Which was probably introduced to prevent GWFs from being easy prey for CWs or HRs. It's still not as reliable as a dodge immunity from both damage and CC like most other classes have.
Also, when you usually reach the ranged guy after being CCed and nuked, that guy can still teleport like A LOT while your sprint is almost over.
I think non-GWF players tend to skip those little things like determination being a lot slower to build= GWFs going Unstoppable a lot less and giving less DR, the fact that Unstoppable isn't spammable but requires the GWF to take damage, can't be activated while proned, is delayed if you get CCed, Flourish and takedown and IBS are as easy to dodge as it is a slow encounter of a PvE mob.
Pretty much agree with usage of Punishing Charge, but still, as you can see from above videos, HRs can still heal like a old sentinel tank and tank more than a GWF. There's probably something also wrong in the GWF gear and build, i can see it from his HPs at least. Looks like a PvE build with just some PvP gear. Still, pretty much shows how powerless Destroyers are in module 4 PvP...
Pretty much, a Mod 4 GWF is now struggling to even reach the enemy while permas/ CW/ HRs quietly nuke them down (GWFs used to save sprint to counter immune dodges. Now they're forced to use it to just get to the enemy without being CCed and nuked down before landing a hit), takes damage in the process (determination is slow. Sprint DR means it'll be even slower) without being able to go Unstoppable until he loses a lot of HPs (on the other hand, the other class can use its TAB skill with no penalties. A CW can still double debuff me like before, for example, and HRs can use double encounters for ranged and melee). Then the enemy has it's own dodges and defense, while the GWF has nerfed damage and some slow and dodgeable CC encounters. Also, now it will be fun to see how a GWF destroyer will be able to stack Destroyer purpose stacks to use his best weapon, the increased damage. He will be there chasing the CW/ HR/ TR, or he will be waiting to use unstoppable, losing even more HPs before he can attack.
But just a note, to be fair: it's open world PvP, and if i can recall well, healing depression DOES NOT work in open world PvP= HR monster self-healing there is still in place, but should be reduced in Domination.
Plus, i think that removing the "too easy to use" Roar stun could actually make the class more interesting in PvP. But nerfing altogether CC, survivability and damage...a bit too much. PvP GWFs are not THAT OP. Considering other top PvP classes (HRs and TR permas) are up there or even stronger and did not get nerfed that much...
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nezraalMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
All the cartoon developers have gone silent, thinking staying quiet will just let the problem drift and if anything, "they can balance in the next update". what they don't understand is, if players leave they won't come back. I wonder what they smoke when they do their own tests. "Oh let's give sprint immunity" - and nerf everything else. The silence is unacceptable. I wonder if they realize how the class works and if they themselves know how to test each class behind their closed doors. No wonder NW rating has gone down. Thinking about shifting to NQuest. The developers here ignore the feedback.
Every GWF here agrees on key points and all the developers try to do is find workarounds! That is NOT the solution. They are:
* GWF needs one prone
* GWF sentinel needs more damage - otherwise it can do nothing, HR, CW GF pretty much everything can kill it without much effort.
* GWF destroyer is not really an option for PvP
* Sprint CC immunity is a bad joke, but the developers don't get it.
So what's the REAL OP CLASS? HR. GWF? Balanced at the highest cal.
They really need to look into these videos. Users who have tested will confirm this is true.
Their workarounds trying to "balance" is failing miserably, but they don't get it. They already have a conception "GWF is OP" - without actually understanding the game mechanics. The video examples set before are good examples. Everyone who "tested" will agree. And they decide to stay "quiet". Going to download NQuest when I go home.
All the cartoon developers have gone silent, thinking staying quiet will just let the problem drift and if anything, "they can balance in the next update". what they don't understand is, if players leave they won't come back. I wonder what they smoke when they do their own tests. "Oh let's give sprint immunity" - and nerf everything else. The silence is unacceptable. I wonder if they realize how the class works and if they themselves know how to test each class behind their closed doors. No wonder NW rating has gone down. Thinking about shifting to NQuest. The developers here ignore the feedback.
Every GWF here agrees on key points and all the developers try to do is find workarounds! That is NOT the solution. They are:
* GWF needs one prone
* GWF sentinel needs more damage - otherwise it can do nothing, HR, CW GF pretty much everything can kill it without much effort.
* GWF destroyer is not really an option for PvP
* Sprint CC immunity is a bad joke, but the developers don't get it.
So what's the REAL OP CLASS? HR. GWF? Balanced at the highest cal.
They really need to look into these videos. Users who have tested will confirm this is true.
Their workarounds trying to "balance" is failing miserably, but they don't get it. They already have a conception "GWF is OP" - without actually understanding the game mechanics. The video examples set before are good examples. Everyone who "tested" will agree. And they decide to stay "quiet". Going to download NQuest when I go home.
Pve geared player in blues PvP dueling is not a comparison of GWF power? Hop on Preview and duel a pvp geared Purified Black Ice Geared GWF and you will see they are still powerful. As far as HR they're really to powerful atm and hopefully toned down also.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
All the cartoon developers have gone silent, thinking staying quiet will just let the problem drift and if anything, "they can balance in the next update". what they don't understand is, if players leave they won't come back. I wonder what they smoke when they do their own tests. "Oh let's give sprint immunity" - and nerf everything else. The silence is unacceptable. I wonder if they realize how the class works and if they themselves know how to test each class behind their closed doors. No wonder NW rating has gone down. Thinking about shifting to NQuest. The developers here ignore the feedback.
Every GWF here agrees on key points and all the developers try to do is find workarounds! That is NOT the solution. They are:
* GWF needs one prone
* GWF sentinel needs more damage - otherwise it can do nothing, HR, CW GF pretty much everything can kill it without much effort.
* GWF destroyer is not really an option for PvP
* Sprint CC immunity is a bad joke, but the developers don't get it.
So what's the REAL OP CLASS? HR. GWF? Balanced at the highest cal.
They really need to look into these videos. Users who have tested will confirm this is true.
Their workarounds trying to "balance" is failing miserably, but they don't get it. They already have a conception "GWF is OP" - without actually understanding the game mechanics. The video examples set before are good examples. Everyone who "tested" will agree. And they decide to stay "quiet". Going to download NQuest when I go home.
So that gwf has pve gear and he isnt as geared as the hr and also yes gwf are weak but hrs are way to ****ing strong so.
Want to see those videos too?? i can show you all how a 17k CBI GWF got his *** kicked by a HR and a SW. ... but, well, you are missing a point: If ALL PvP GWFs must have the Corrupted or Purified BIG to be "good" at PvP vs other classes which doesnt need them instead of using GRIM or PROFOUND gear sets... then, you are saying the same thing as us: GWFs are not viable on either PvP or PvE.
I have the Corrupted and Purified to compete as a GF, why would a GWF not need the same?
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Want to see those videos too?? i can show you all how a 17k CBI GWF got his *** kicked by a HR and a SW. ... but, well, you are missing a point: If ALL PvP GWFs must have the Corrupted or Purified BIG to be "good" at PvP vs other classes which doesnt need them instead of using GRIM or PROFOUND gear sets... then, you are saying the same thing as us: GWFs are not viable on either PvP or PvE.
black ice is better for all classes in pvp except hrs for sure and maybe trs. if you want to get the most effective end game feedback then use the highest gear possible for your class that is also the most effective. Now hrs are really overpowered so i cant really say to much there.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
So that gwf has pve gear and he isnt as geared as the hr and also yes gwf are weak but hrs are way to ****ing strong so.
1.
HE have Grim pvp gear i am 100% sure . But mybe you are all blind.
2.
This is feedback thread you and ripyourlipsoff dont give any feedback .
3.
Actual i know what he try to do and how he try to beat the nerf in mod4 .
If you look closly to her skills dalys class features he try my old build.
But he fail it cuz he was cut down too fast and cannot pump up her daly soo fast .
4.
The only one thing was too extrem when he try 1vs1 Goodmode he is a hell strong gf even in live.
5.
I have all classes but i like mostly GWF but i dont go to other feedback forum to trolling.
If i join the forum i try to give feedback cuz i can give it cuz i have all classes and i have tested it and feel the change about the class .
1.
HE have Grim pvp gear i am 100% sure . But mybe you are all blind.
2.
This is feedback thread you and ripyourlipsoff dont give any feedback .
3.
Actual i know what he try to do and how he try to beat the nerf in mod4 .
If you look closly to her skills dalys class features he try my old build.
But he fail it cuz he was cut down too fast and cannot pump up her daly soo fast .
4.
The only one thing was too extrem when he try 1vs1 Goodmode he is a hell strong gf even in live.
He had 3-4 pieces of Grim which is = to Welfare Pvp gear! At least get a set of Profound on... My god! He was dueling ppl with Black Ice gear!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Comments
How are you shocked by this? GWF has a total of 3k defense stats.
People..... You don't need 47k hit points as a GWF to be competitive. I've fought God Mode in domination and won, with the proper gear right now Destroyers are competitive. Yes the above poster's gear isn't straight but whose to say his spec is off.
I run Purified BI, in Domination with 25k hit points and do very well. Get off this Hit point hang up.
Whats on the preview server right now makes Destroyer dead in the water. Base damage is in the toilet...
yeah probably, but let's not close an eye, of the massive damage HR , havin DOT and now massive protection as deflect, and not close an eye of the CW that procs assailum 1/5 sec that does almost 8k damage that can't be stopped ... and the burst damage that GF does atm goes through deflect/defense... gwf destroyer burst damage doesnt go through their defense/deflect as well as theirs...and not forget the TR class, that is almost equivalent to a companion ... as he loses with everyclass at 1vs1, and they should be assassins...
but nah, now depends on the builds as people can try different builds, as i found a sentinel build that is rather good
Please do not nerf the GWF further, the fix to Roar and their prones is more than enough. Now I don't play a GWF myself, however I have endured over 100 matches in PVP with Roar spamming addicts and I want my revenge come MOD 4.
Please do not overshadow his by giving GWF's an excuse for their quick deaths. I would prefer to see a glimmer of hope in their eyes before they roll backward
You're not supposed to be able to fight rank 10 GF with your rank 7 25K HP GWF. The fact that you can stand against GODMODE with less gear is a game mistake that is going to be rectified.
The GWF who posted those links does not belong in PvP (Silvery in Offense? PvE accessories?). He came unprepared and got owned, no longer being carried by class mechanics.
Feedback should come from properly geared and specced individuals.
Thats because its a lock on ability. This was added when they changed Takedown to have a slight movement forward when used, before it was absurdly difficult to land a hit with it. That same thing happens with flourish. It has a soft lock on it. So even if you're out of range, if the GWF uses the ability at the exact moment you're in range it will hit you even if you're out of range normally. The ability has to be used directly before the opponent dodges to do that. When that happens the GWF has to sprint over to you, and by the time they use thier next move, you've gotten or just about gotten up to be able to dodge whatevers coming next (if its not the CC chain of frontline surge coming next). Yeah takedown could set up for a an indomniable battle strike. But you couldnt really pull that encounter off normally anyway. Your opponent has to literally stand directly in front of the GWF to get hit by that. Who in thier right mind would try to fight a GWF in their face? Another GWF wouldnt even do that. The only alternative way is hoping a CW is around and uses Entangling force for you to sprint over fast enough to hopefully get that hit off. Indomnible Battle Strike his harder to place than Wicked Reminder, but slower in activation and that ability literally is only point Blank range. Battle strike has enough space to fit 3 people in the most absolute perfect alignment which is plausible in pve but near impossible without prones. Roar used to be a alternative to Takedown, and all that was wrong with that was that it was going through CC immunity. Now they took the whole immobilize away and made it an interrupt.
(On the subject of Roar for a moment, I find it funny that I was using roar the whole time on two of my GWF's since launch, and always thought it didnt go through immunity so I out right avoided using it as one would expect to not use it, and soon as people realized it goes through immunity they start abusing it to get the whole skill wiped out. lol )
Yes I forgot about that one, CW has shard of avalanche, but thats is really difficult to use in pvp unless your fighting in a large group bundled up. With the large telegraphed ball, you can pretty much move out of the way of that not even needing to dodge. Getting hit by the prone of that is less concerning than the actual damage the encounter does. Only real way you can get hit by the explosion part of this encounter is if you're controlled the entire time or completely unaware its coming from a blind spot.
Back then, GF's had the two prone encounters and two prone dailies, they were annoying but not nessecarily problematic, because they didnt damage that much. They utilized it as a way to control the field, instead of directly smashing everything the way GWF's does now. When GF's were in trouble, that offense was thier defense, because when thier shield was down, they were just sitting ducks unless you dodged out of those encounters and controlled them from thier blindspot.
GWF's didnt have such a thing when they got them. They had no blind spots because of their unstoppable if you so happen to evade thier prones. The only way to really combat GWF's after the introduction of the Iron Vanguard was back the way you had to combat sentinels. You had to use prones on them, so they couldnt activate unstoppable, since its the only CC that they cant use unstoppable to break out of. That meant it had to take another fighter to do it, and usually more than one, the problem was once they catch you first, you were basically done. Because of that CC chain. Pretty much kills or mostly kills any opponent they attack unhindered because of unstoppable.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
What spec are you?
What gear do you have?
What Paragon are you playing? ( I thought I saw Flourish SM? )
What are your base stats? Your Regen and Life steal seemed really low, especially in Owpvp I do not think there is Healing Depression.
You could have played Gearless and it would have told us the same information... If you are going to make video duels for feedback one would need ALL the information not selected tid bits.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Maybe some of you that were closer to BiS dont feel this , but I do, I already rolled a HR , got it to 60 and am planning on switching, if that doesnt work, will go back to my CW as my primary. I feel bad for you that only would like to play a melee'er, but there was a nebulous balance in pvp already, other then the GF who couldve used some love , some change to CW and rework of the DC feats.. thats what this entire patch shouldve been about. Then if they felt the GWF was over-performing, then work on it.
Im a little tired of broken BiS builds effecting the other 80-90% of the players in this game. I felt the brunt of this on my DC already, when those types wouldnt die on a node pre tenacity, so what do the poor DC get in return, avg type players , get wacked too hard. This seems to be a common theme here. The player-base is much wider and broader then the BiS crowd and you have to figure this out cryptic.
I think gear will assist you greatly, I believe the players albeit the SW had substantially better PVP gear.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
and the other dude who asked about what REgeneration and Lifesteal, are you kiddin me? Lifesteal for a gwf is useless in PVP , and healing depression applies in every area where is pvp (icwn,gauntlegrym,domination)
but even so, you are right, it doesn't matter what build you using atm or what strat... the point is
CW havin assailant + shield , they are very tanky and they can beat you in 1 rotation ...
HR alot of healing he has, and that makes them more tankier, i think the tankiest from the game...
GF i agree with their upgrade..
TR are the same as companions compared to the other classes buffs...
GWF has alot of broken things. and it should be overlooked more...
SW they are good, but a lil tankines and less prone timer, it's too long to stay 6 seconds on the ground... but even thou, didn't seen a SW wearing PVP profound set , or any PVE set that has a good bonus like High Vizier for CWs ..
eitherway, the video that he provided it's true... i tested it too, the only classes gwf can face atm are TR, SW and some GF (i didn't count a DC cuz they dont do damage as healers).
and i tested GWF sentinel... i last longer, but still no damage, and in like 30-40 seconds i am dead...
BTW: pvpin in icewind is to test the classes and simulate a 1vs1 fight from PVP domination, so no companion/active bonuses , or pots... cuz thats the idea of testing , as que is broken ..
You can go Unstoppable only after taking damage. Gaining determination. And Unstoppable is delayed if you've been CCed now. Have you tested on preview? Determination builds slowly now. The GWF will lose half his HP before being able to go Unstoppable for 5 seconds.
Slam is a Daily. You can't really count on a Daily in PvP or base a strategy on it...What when you don't have slam up?
Takedown is easily dodged. Same with Flourish. Any half good CW can dodge these moves.
Punishing Charge can be interrupted.
New sprint has 40% more stamina now and CC control, which is not as much as whiners think. It's more sprint for sure and you can't get CCed while sprinting. Which was probably introduced to prevent GWFs from being easy prey for CWs or HRs. It's still not as reliable as a dodge immunity from both damage and CC like most other classes have.
Also, when you usually reach the ranged guy after being CCed and nuked, that guy can still teleport like A LOT while your sprint is almost over.
I think non-GWF players tend to skip those little things like determination being a lot slower to build= GWFs going Unstoppable a lot less and giving less DR, the fact that Unstoppable isn't spammable but requires the GWF to take damage, can't be activated while proned, is delayed if you get CCed, Flourish and takedown and IBS are as easy to dodge as it is a slow encounter of a PvE mob.
Pretty much agree with usage of Punishing Charge, but still, as you can see from above videos, HRs can still heal like a old sentinel tank and tank more than a GWF. There's probably something also wrong in the GWF gear and build, i can see it from his HPs at least. Looks like a PvE build with just some PvP gear. Still, pretty much shows how powerless Destroyers are in module 4 PvP...
Pretty much, a Mod 4 GWF is now struggling to even reach the enemy while permas/ CW/ HRs quietly nuke them down (GWFs used to save sprint to counter immune dodges. Now they're forced to use it to just get to the enemy without being CCed and nuked down before landing a hit), takes damage in the process (determination is slow. Sprint DR means it'll be even slower) without being able to go Unstoppable until he loses a lot of HPs (on the other hand, the other class can use its TAB skill with no penalties. A CW can still double debuff me like before, for example, and HRs can use double encounters for ranged and melee). Then the enemy has it's own dodges and defense, while the GWF has nerfed damage and some slow and dodgeable CC encounters. Also, now it will be fun to see how a GWF destroyer will be able to stack Destroyer purpose stacks to use his best weapon, the increased damage. He will be there chasing the CW/ HR/ TR, or he will be waiting to use unstoppable, losing even more HPs before he can attack.
But just a note, to be fair: it's open world PvP, and if i can recall well, healing depression DOES NOT work in open world PvP= HR monster self-healing there is still in place, but should be reduced in Domination.
Plus, i think that removing the "too easy to use" Roar stun could actually make the class more interesting in PvP. But nerfing altogether CC, survivability and damage...a bit too much. PvP GWFs are not THAT OP. Considering other top PvP classes (HRs and TR permas) are up there or even stronger and did not get nerfed that much...
Every GWF here agrees on key points and all the developers try to do is find workarounds! That is NOT the solution. They are:
* GWF needs one prone
* GWF sentinel needs more damage - otherwise it can do nothing, HR, CW GF pretty much everything can kill it without much effort.
* GWF destroyer is not really an option for PvP
* Sprint CC immunity is a bad joke, but the developers don't get it.
So what's the REAL OP CLASS? HR. GWF? Balanced at the highest cal.
They really need to look into these videos. Users who have tested will confirm this is true.
http://youtu.be/7YIWx6uaTcs
http://youtu.be/BIrdO6HauxA
http://youtu.be/DnZ5n5S34pI
http://youtu.be/h-0mj_MkiuA
Their workarounds trying to "balance" is failing miserably, but they don't get it. They already have a conception "GWF is OP" - without actually understanding the game mechanics. The video examples set before are good examples. Everyone who "tested" will agree. And they decide to stay "quiet". Going to download NQuest when I go home.
+ CAGI Calcultator
+ Liquid Tear Website
Pve geared player in blues PvP dueling is not a comparison of GWF power? Hop on Preview and duel a pvp geared Purified Black Ice Geared GWF and you will see they are still powerful. As far as HR they're really to powerful atm and hopefully toned down also.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I have the Corrupted and Purified to compete as a GF, why would a GWF not need the same?
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
1.
HE have Grim pvp gear i am 100% sure . But mybe you are all blind.
2.
This is feedback thread you and ripyourlipsoff dont give any feedback .
3.
Actual i know what he try to do and how he try to beat the nerf in mod4 .
If you look closly to her skills dalys class features he try my old build.
But he fail it cuz he was cut down too fast and cannot pump up her daly soo fast .
4.
The only one thing was too extrem when he try 1vs1 Goodmode he is a hell strong gf even in live.
5.
I have all classes but i like mostly GWF but i dont go to other feedback forum to trolling.
If i join the forum i try to give feedback cuz i can give it cuz i have all classes and i have tested it and feel the change about the class .
He had 3-4 pieces of Grim which is = to Welfare Pvp gear! At least get a set of Profound on... My god! He was dueling ppl with Black Ice gear!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!