ennteaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Making keys boa is useless, they only held artificial value before, now there's next to no reason to purchase them, and I'm really not sure what kind of "3rd party" sites these clowns are falling for, but the AH exists in perfect form for RMT as-is with no need to share any login or pass whatsoever, even with the 10% AD sink on top...
The way things are going,all items will be bound to the point that the only currency left will be gold. Pretty soon everything you buy from vendors,even Marks of Potency,will be bound.
The way things are going,all items will be bound to the point that the only currency left will be gold. Pretty soon everything you buy from vendors,even Marks of Potency,will be bound.
I for one would be fine with everything being account bound, as I am here to play not drive up markets and cause items to be so over priced that no one who does not have money to waste on this game can obtain them. I say good job cryptic and keep it up now bind gold and get rid of PVP so the PVE game does not suffer and you will be my #1 game, or at least don't change things in PVE or PVP as is in the real RPG D&D there are different tactics for each class. If a wizard is in melee then yes he will die by the fighters hand and if the rogue back stabs you you might die, and a priest is a hard person to kill as it should be just like a fighter in melee is a death dealing machine or a ranger at death from a distance.
1) The change without any warning has meant that players who bought enchanted keys for trade purposes are pretty much having to eat perhaps around an average 40% reduction in the value of their holdings. This also generates a huge amount of uncertainty in the future.
2) This will help the economy as the ZAX is no longer upward pressure due to the cycle of
Buy keys with ZEN > Get more than 500 AD/ ZEN > buy orders on ZAX for ZEN > Buy keys with ZEN ...
So overall a good thing, but it rally hurt some players and made a lot of people very uncertain about future changes....
If an "alarming" amount of people are going to 3rd party website, it should tell you that your goods in-game are way too expensive.
If people are using a 3rd party website to purchase goods for the game, outside of the game....and you are setting up measures to "protect" them...i don't know what to say, totally speechless.
Agree with you. Because of your goods in-game are way too expensive, you already give a environment to those 3rd party website survive.
Free Players will still not spend any money on this game or will be leave cause of this indirect force them to buy zen.
The player that buy Enchanted Keys from 3rd party website, they may stop spent any more money on this game or find another way to buy the items.
The only way to stop player buy stuffs from 3rd party website, is reduce your goods in-game price. Make your goods in-game cheaper than those 3rd party website. :cool:
1) The change without any warning has meant that players who bought enchanted keys for trade purposes are pretty much having to eat perhaps around an average 40% reduction in the value of their holdings. This also generates a huge amount of uncertainty in the future.
I really dont think that PW's goal, should be to try and protect the people who are responsible for having driven the prices on the AH out of control to begin with... And a quick search for C.wards and pres. Wards(the new keys) shows that the same people who sold keys for profit, already have several hundreds pres. Ward and c.wards up for sale, so guess their uncertanity isnt that great...
I really dont think that PW's goal, should be to try and protect the people who are responsible for having driven the prices on the AH out of control to begin with... And a quick search for C.wards and pres. Wards(the new keys) shows that the same people who sold keys for profit, already have several hundreds pres. Ward and c.wards up for sale, so guess their uncertanity isnt that great...
Trade purposes != reselling on AH.
A lot of people used keys for trading for other items, and they will be hurt in addition to the people you mention. And unlike the AH manipulators, they will be much harder hit.
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zombieelvisMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited July 2014
The problem I see with this is when you make retroactive changes, without warning, to items that are sold on the cash shop you destroy trust with the consumer.
What's to prevent the next time a customer buys an item from the cash shop it retroactively changes without warning? I know I won't be buying from the cash shop with real world currency.
There is an idiomatic expression and a concept used to suggest an avoidable error in which something good is eliminated when trying to get rid of something bad, or in other words, rejecting the essential along with the inessential. In my opinion PWE/Cryptic does a lot of this.
I do not have a way of buying zen. I dont own a credit card, or a paypal, or anything similar. So AD was the only way of buying keys for me. I didn't even look at the price, I just find 1st key I see, I buy it. I gathered around 100 tarmalune bars. Was saving up for 200 to buy a coal ward. Now I am stuck with 100, nothing to buy. I can't get zen, so you prety much made me flush 500k AD down the toilet. I can only hope I can score some zen trough the AD market, but there is already 5 million AD ahead of my offer.
So, how are we fair,honest players supposed to deal with this?
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
I do not have a way of buying zen. I dont own a credit card, or a paypal, or anything similar. So AD was the only way of buying keys for me. I didn't even look at the price, I just find 1st key I see, I buy it. I gathered around 100 tarmalune bars. Was saving up for 200 to buy a coal ward. Now I am stuck with 100, nothing to buy. I can't get zen, so you prety much made me flush 500k AD down the toilet. I can only hope I can score some zen trough the AD market, but there is already 5 million AD ahead of my offer.
So, how are we fair,honest players supposed to deal with this?
Use the Astral Diamond Exchange to convert your AD into Zen. Sorry to tell you, but all those keys you bought in the AH were overpriced when comparing to how much it would cost to use the Astral Diamond Exchange to buy Zen and then buy the Key(s) directly. Especially when buying the 10 pack, you get the 10th one free. Which is what people were doing to manipulate and take advantage of the economy and players. They'd buy the 10 pack and then sell or trade each key for more than a single key was actually worth, in effect making tons of profit from people who do not know about the AD Exchange.
As the AD Exchange is a player driven market, you'll need to place your offer and then wait. The surplus of buy offers is steadily dropping.
You're presuming much here zebular. How do you know that he or other players that bought keys of the AH didn't know about the ZAX exchange? Not everything is about the end all be all price my friend. I gladly bought keys off the AH at 80k AD. Heck, I would have gone up to 100k no problem. When I decided that I wanted keys. I wanted them now. Not tomorrow. Not next week. Definitely not 2 weeks from now. How I spend my AD is my choice, and if I want to overpay for something to get it right this moment. That is my decision, not yours or anyone elses.
You guys however have just taken that choice away from me...
If an "alarming" amount of people are going to 3rd party website, it should tell you that your goods in-game are way too expensive.
If people are using a 3rd party website to purchase goods for the game, outside of the game....and you are setting up measures to "protect" them...i don't know what to say, totally speechless.
Agree with you. Because of your goods in-game are way too expensive, you already give a environment to those 3rd party website survive.
Free Players will still not spend any money on this game or will be leave cause of this indirect force them to buy zen.
The player that buy Enchanted Keys from 3rd party website, they may stop spent any more money on this game or find another way to buy the items.
The only way to stop player buy stuffs from 3rd party website, is reduce your goods in-game price. Make your goods in-game cheaper than those 3rd party website. :cool:
sorry but that is definitely an inaccurate statement.
3rd party sellers provide a competitive market where there is, by Terms of Service, a restriction against it. PWE is providing a service that is free to play with the option to buy zen for convenience items. for someone to sell the property of another for profit, it is theft. and if you are caught buying stolen items, you are also subject to the terms of the law.
making items acquired in-game as BoA or purchases like the enchanted keys is one way to limit ToS violations such as 3rd party selling. while it may also limit wealth building for some, there are many other ways within the game to gain wealth.
i definitely feel that this is a step in the right direction for PWE and hope they continue to make such strides in the future. 3rd party sellers do not help you... they are stealing from PWE and can actually limit their earning potential. if you support 3rd party sellers, you may find your days to be numbered as they continue to crack down on such activities.
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onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
edited July 2014
You are correct Melodywhr, but I don't think you truly appreciate how peeved the player base is.
Imagine a casino where players are actively prevented from knowing odds on any given game. Imagine this casino routinely changes rules in the middle of a game. These changes might prevent mob enforcers from muscling in on your turf, but one result is players now win fewer chips worth less than ever. Players don't care about the casino's bottom line. They care about their chips.
You are correct Melodywhr, but I don't think you truly appreciate how peeved the player base is.
Imagine a casino where players are actively prevented from knowing odds on any given game. Imagine this casino routinely changes rules in the middle of a game. All this might be done to prevent mob enforcers from muscling in on your turf, but one result is players now win fewer chips worth less than ever. Players don't care about the casino's bottom line. They care about their chips.
^^^
100% agreement.
Also, while 3rd party sites may eat into your profits, so do your over priced items.
You can sell a few coal wards at 500k AD/1000 zen, but you could sell the same guy 10 coal wards at 250k AD/500 zen.
sorry but that is definitely an inaccurate statement.
3rd party sellers provide a competitive market where there is, by Terms of Service, a restriction against it. PWE is providing a service that is free to play with the option to buy zen for convenience items. for someone to sell the property of another for profit, it is theft. and if you are caught buying stolen items, you are also subject to the terms of the law.
making items acquired in-game as BoA or purchases like the enchanted keys is one way to limit ToS violations such as 3rd party selling. while it may also limit wealth building for some, there are many other ways within the game to gain wealth.
i definitely feel that this is a step in the right direction for PWE and hope they continue to make such strides in the future. 3rd party sellers do not help you... they are stealing from PWE and can actually limit their earning potential. if you support 3rd party sellers, you may find your days to be numbered as they continue to crack down on such activities.
It's not only that. I support banning bots, 3rd party sellers, and those that buy from sellers as a moral issue. Here's the deal, these sellers typically have ties to organised crime and are using it to launder their money. Supporting 3rd party sales means that in effect you could be supporting drug trafficking, sex trafficking (sex slavery), gun trafficking, terrorism, etc. Some really basic information can be found in this article. http://cybersecurity.mit.edu/2012/11/cyber-laundering-final-part-online-games/
sorry but that is definitely an inaccurate statement.
3rd party sellers provide a competitive market where there is, by Terms of Service, a restriction against it. PWE is providing a service that is free to play with the option to buy zen for convenience items. for someone to sell the property of another for profit, it is theft. and if you are caught buying stolen items, you are also subject to the terms of the law.
making items acquired in-game as BoA or purchases like the enchanted keys is one way to limit ToS violations such as 3rd party selling. while it may also limit wealth building for some, there are many other ways within the game to gain wealth.
i definitely feel that this is a step in the right direction for PWE and hope they continue to make such strides in the future. 3rd party sellers do not help you... they are stealing from PWE and can actually limit their earning potential. if you support 3rd party sellers, you may find your days to be numbered as they continue to crack down on such activities.
No that is a completely accurate statement. A lot of people see the blatant overpriced store. Especially pvpers who want the best in order to compete. It's really just too expensive to get the high end stuff so they get it from somewhere that doesn't overcharge as much. If prices were actually farer, there would be a lot less people willing to take the risk. Also I'm pretty sure most companies sell the property of others for profit . Making keys bop will barely hurt botters. The part about it stopping botters is wrong, that won't happen no matter what they price things at. But the part about people being put off by over the top prices certainly is.
- From a guy who earnt all of his AD from hard work but understands the costs of high level play and never used an AD seller.
It doesn't work like that. Cryptic has a game plan. There aren't supposed to be so many easy r10/perfects and definitely not so soon. The bots kinda ruined that plan for the most part, but there is a reason things like CWards are expensive. Perfection should be something to work for. It shouldn't be this easy to obtain (without the CS). If it was, we'd all have r10 as soon as we finish Sharaderp and be bored as hell with whatever news they publish. There's something called natural growth, even in MMOs.
That's funny because I distinctly remember that the new refinement system was specifically mentioned to help more people get rank 10s and perfect enchantments. Some people already had them at the time and now it's at the point where entry requirements are so much more and end savings are basically non existent. Also most people did have enough when they finished sharandar because that was seriously the worse campaign system ever. The other 2 were better but still had unenjoyable elements.
It doesn't work like that. Cryptic has a game plan. There aren't supposed to be so many easy r10/perfects and definitely not so soon. The bots kinda ruined that plan for the most part, but there is a reason things like CWards are expensive. Perfection should be something to work for. It shouldn't be this easy to obtain (without the CS).
Many have already said they are too expensive.
I wont get one character fully upgraded enchants if I spend the next year on it.
If someone spends a couple hundred hours on one guy they should have some serious enchants. Oh wait you need artifacts too, and those need serious RP...way more in fact than could ever be attainable without people (and bots) who dont refine their artifacts selling enchants on the AH. How long would it take to grind those RP plus all the AD to get the coal wards plus the refining mats?
Way too long.
...way too much time to devote to one character on one MMO.
Don't tell me I'm being cheap either, i've bought a couple zen shop mounts with actual cash for zen.
I like supporting f2p games, and there is plenty I may spend on in the future.
...but I pay for stuff thats worth it, and ten bucks to refine an enchantment to get another 30 on my gs is too much.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
I wouldn't dispute this in many regards but no matter what the price is the third party retailers (rule breakers) will always undercut it.
Unless the game is 100% free (can not exist) there will always be gold sellers and people who buy from them. It's not a sign that people feel the game costs too much. Nor is it a good approach even if you do.
Give feedback. Request reductions. Explain why those reductions are necessary.
If you stole from a store how much of a defense would it be to say "I stole it because I felt it cost too much?"
None at all.
proprietary rights protect the rights of businesses and individuals that put time and money into a product or service. it is entirely their right to sell it and collect on it however they see fit as long as it is within the strictures of the law. you as a consumer have the right to spend your money as you see fit. you have every right to use a competitor if one company does not meet your needs as a consumer.
name brands are the property of those that create and distribute those products/services. often you will see cheap knock offs of these products. sometimes you will even see cheap knock offs using fake name brands and logos on these products. when you have a third party company selling proprietary items that they do not own the rights to, this is a violation of the rights of the property owners. consumers often look for the best deal that is most economical for their wallet. most of the time, if you see something that is too good to be true, it probably is. engaging in transactions with less than savory individuals is risky because you could stand to lose both money and merchandise. in this case, you could lose access to your accounts through theft or by getting banned for violating the ToS.
in the grand scheme of things, the action PWE is taking by making keys BoA will protect the integrity of the game, it will protect users against 3rd party sellers and it will protect those that have invested time/money into the game by limiting 3rd party sellers.
in the grand scheme of things, the action PWE is taking by making keys BoA will protect the integrity of the game, it will protect users against 3rd party sellers and it will protect those that have invested time/money into the game by limiting 3rd party sellers.
Sorry but this is not true. Unless they make every item BoA, including AD and gold and don't allow you to salvage gear it is simply not going to protect anyone. If they truly are trying to "protect" their customers they need to get to the root of the real problem and stop trying to play whack a mole.
I wouldn't dispute this in many regards but no matter what the price is the third party retailers (rule breakers) will always undercut it.
Unless the game is 100% free (can not exist) there will always be gold sellers and people who buy from them. It's not a sign that people feel the game costs too much. Nor is it a good approach even if you do.
Give feedback. Request reductions. Explain why those reductions are necessary.
If you stole from a store how much of a defense would it be to say "I stole it because I felt it cost too much?"
None at all.
And it's no different here.
Well I already mentioned that there's no stopping the botters, but there comes a point where people start to look at alternative sources to get what they want. Have a compelling product at the right price, then lots of people will buy it. Restrict people getting it in any way, in this case being extremely uncompetitive prices then they will take the opportunity to get cheaper AD when given to them. Your stealing from a store analogy doesn't exactly match up though. If we ignore the bot equation, the buyer is just buying from someone who worked to earn his good but said he wouldn't sell them on. Nothing was stolen because work went into getting the goods and the buyer certainly didn't steal anything.
Having said that, I'm not suggesting people are fine to go out and buy from their nearest AD seller. Just that there are reasons people seek them out. It's nice that Cryptic have somewhat listened to us in some cases, but things are pretty far off from being the way a game should be in order to be both profitable and fair to players.
Use the Astral Diamond Exchange to convert your AD into Zen. Sorry to tell you, but all those keys you bought in the AH were overpriced when comparing to how much it would cost to use the Astral Diamond Exchange to buy Zen and then buy the Key(s) directly. Especially when buying the 10 pack, you get the 10th one free. Which is what people were doing to manipulate and take advantage of the economy and players. They'd buy the 10 pack and then sell or trade each key for more than a single key was actually worth, in effect making tons of profit from people who do not know about the AD Exchange.
As the AD Exchange is a player driven market, you'll need to place your offer and then wait. The surplus of buy offers is steadily dropping.
but how does ZAX determine when it is time to cash out my AD? I just put up 100k AD worth of zen and I am waiting. There is already 5 million worth of zen infront of the time I posted it. Are you saying me ZAX is so fluent that 5 mil worth of AD is gonna flush trough it in 1 day? I just want to know how does teh system decide when it is my turn to get my zen for my hard earned AD
but how does ZAX determine when it is time to cash out my AD? I just put up 100k AD worth of zen and I am waiting. There is already 5 million worth of zen infront of the time I posted it. Are you saying me ZAX is so fluent that 5 mil worth of AD is gonna flush trough it in 1 day? I just want to know how does teh system decide when it is my turn to get my zen for my hard earned AD
First in first out, people will post their zen in order to buy our ad so you'll need to wait a few days. Offers keep getting bought and put up so you just need to wait your turn. It beats getting ripped off though. That depends on AH prices though. A lot of them rip you off, but atm (might not last soon, some aren't too bad of a price in order to not wait.
but how does ZAX determine when it is time to cash out my AD? I just put up 100k AD worth of zen and I am waiting. There is already 5 million worth of zen infront of the time I posted it. Are you saying me ZAX is so fluent that 5 mil worth of AD is gonna flush trough it in 1 day? I just want to know how does teh system decide when it is my turn to get my zen for my hard earned AD
No, it means there is currently 5 million in orders waiting to be filled. Everyone is placing AD for sale, but there is not enough zen to fill all the orders. So there is a line, and everyone must wait their turn. You will get yours, when all the orders placed before you, get filled.
No, it means there is currently 5 million in orders waiting to be filled. Everyone is placing AD for sale, but there is not enough zen to fill all the orders. So there is a line, and everyone must wait their turn. You will get yours, when all the orders placed before you, get filled.
Also note that it's backed up because some sellers are exploiting the store and ah to make more than 500:1. This is why all cash shop items need to be bound to avoid this practice that uses a loophole to get around the developers previously stated goals about why the cap exists.
Sorry but this is not true. Unless they make every item BoA, including AD and gold and don't allow you to salvage gear it is simply not going to protect anyone. If they truly are trying to "protect" their customers they need to get to the root of the real problem and stop trying to play whack a mole.
there is very little that isn't either bind to character or account. it's clear that third party sellers are a problem and making adjustments towards limiting how they can exploit the game is clearly a step in the right direction.
there is very little that isn't either bind to character or account. it's clear that third party sellers are a problem and making adjustments towards limiting how they can exploit the game is clearly a step in the right direction.
I still hold faith that everything will fall into place soon. Neverwinter is still young. I see many pros mixed with cons and the devs are listening even if it seems they aren't.
You still miss the point. No one disputes Cryptic's right to protect their property. The point is: Cryptic is mismanaging their bot countermeasures and pissing off the playerbase while doing so. This does FAR more harm to Cryptic's intellectual property than the bots themselves ever did.
I and a few of my fellow guildmasters were already looking at new games due to NW's longstanding class and content issues. These economic policies only make things worse. Cryptic temporarily reduced bot activity, but the playerbase was and is caught in the crossfire. It's now to the point where new players simply can't compete without shelling out big bucks. Most large guilds are bleeding players. New players join, realize they'll never afford BiS gear, and quietly fade away. This is a direct result of Cryptic's bot tactics.
I'll assume you aren't referring us to third party AD sites and instead respond to this sentence as you meant it. Dismissing your current player base is rash. Mass exodus=failure for any MMO. Fight to keep players. Don't tell them to "lump it or leave it."
the definition of a competitor would be another business offering the same products/services to consumers. gold sellers do not fall under that definition. they are selling something they do not have the right to sell for a profit.
if i wrote a song and put it on the internet for free and some third party entity decided they were going to download it and sell it to someone else for a profit, they would be stealing from me regardless of the fact that i was offering the item at no cost. they are profiting from my labors. my work. my creativity.
you have a limited license and are bound by the terms of service of any game that you download and play. you do not own your characters or the items you purchase within the game. you are granted a license to use these items.
decisions a gaming company makes to protect their property is within their right to do so. your argument is whether or not they should if it negatively affects the player base as a whole. you would first have to prove that making keys BoA is going to eliminate wealth building in neverwinter and how, over time, this will negatively impact the game as a whole.
some people don't quite understand that with the free to play model, the gaming company expects player base fluctuations. but for as long as i've been on these forums, i've seen countless threads where people speculate how something is going to negatively affect the player base. the game is still here with new and old players. and i'm sure there have been some people that quit and never return just like there are people that take undetermined hiatuses.
it's okay to dislike changes and to speculate that it's going to negatively impact the game, but as i stated before, i think this is a move in the right direction. i do not approve of 3rd party sellers or theft. and not approving of the price of a gallon of milk doesn't give you a right to steal it or buy it from someone else that stole it and is selling it at a lower price.
if i wrote a song and put it on the internet for free and some third party entity decided they were going to download it and sell it to someone else for a profit, they would be stealing from me regardless of the fact that i was offering the item at no cost. they are profiting from my labors. my work. my creativity.
you have a limited license and are bound by the terms of service of any game that you download and play. you do not own your characters or the items you purchase within the game. you are granted a license to use these items.
decisions a gaming company makes to protect their property is within their right to do so. your argument is whether or not they should if it negatively affects the player base as a whole. you would first have to prove that making keys BoA is going to eliminate wealth building in neverwinter and how, over time, this will negatively impact the game as a whole.
All of that means nothing if you <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off the player base enough that no one plays. They might want to get rid of all the bots, but the direction of making so many things BoP is extremely bad for players that want to actually play the game.
The legal problems they run into with 3rd party sellers, is they are selling you a service not an item. Where do you draw the line in terms of what is helping or trading with someone vs 3rd party selling?
As an example, what if I want to help out a friend, sibling etc? Can I give them gold, AD, items? If the answer is no then this isn't an MMO and we might as well just play single player games. If the answer is yes, then how do you differentiate between saying someone "sold" you items as opposed to gave or traded.
At the end of the day, a properly designed game shouldn't in the least bit require anyone to "buy" gold, AD etc. You should be able to play the game and in the normal course of playing, find whatever you need.
there is very little that isn't either bind to character or account. it's clear that third party sellers are a problem and making adjustments towards limiting how they can exploit the game is clearly a step in the right direction.
What's more important, attempting to combat bots ineffectively (so far, not that can't improve) or providing a rewarding gameplay to the players. I started and enjoyed the game when it was rewarding. Then the game got more restricted and less rewarding. Now I spend most of my progression from not actually playing the game because the old stuff is stale and prices have gone down due to it being so old, and the new content has bad drops and lots of bop items that its not worth doing. Why is it that to progress the most, I can ignore playing any actual content? It's good that I'm able to, but I'd like to enjoy my time playing and I just can't do that when I feel like it's getting me nowhere.
Comments
I for one would be fine with everything being account bound, as I am here to play not drive up markets and cause items to be so over priced that no one who does not have money to waste on this game can obtain them. I say good job cryptic and keep it up now bind gold and get rid of PVP so the PVE game does not suffer and you will be my #1 game, or at least don't change things in PVE or PVP as is in the real RPG D&D there are different tactics for each class. If a wizard is in melee then yes he will die by the fighters hand and if the rogue back stabs you you might die, and a priest is a hard person to kill as it should be just like a fighter in melee is a death dealing machine or a ranger at death from a distance.
1) The change without any warning has meant that players who bought enchanted keys for trade purposes are pretty much having to eat perhaps around an average 40% reduction in the value of their holdings. This also generates a huge amount of uncertainty in the future.
2) This will help the economy as the ZAX is no longer upward pressure due to the cycle of
Buy keys with ZEN > Get more than 500 AD/ ZEN > buy orders on ZAX for ZEN > Buy keys with ZEN ...
So overall a good thing, but it rally hurt some players and made a lot of people very uncertain about future changes....
Agree with you. Because of your goods in-game are way too expensive, you already give a environment to those 3rd party website survive.
Free Players will still not spend any money on this game or will be leave cause of this indirect force them to buy zen.
The player that buy Enchanted Keys from 3rd party website, they may stop spent any more money on this game or find another way to buy the items.
The only way to stop player buy stuffs from 3rd party website, is reduce your goods in-game price. Make your goods in-game cheaper than those 3rd party website. :cool:
I really dont think that PW's goal, should be to try and protect the people who are responsible for having driven the prices on the AH out of control to begin with... And a quick search for C.wards and pres. Wards(the new keys) shows that the same people who sold keys for profit, already have several hundreds pres. Ward and c.wards up for sale, so guess their uncertanity isnt that great...
Trade purposes != reselling on AH.
A lot of people used keys for trading for other items, and they will be hurt in addition to the people you mention. And unlike the AH manipulators, they will be much harder hit.
What's to prevent the next time a customer buys an item from the cash shop it retroactively changes without warning? I know I won't be buying from the cash shop with real world currency.
There is an idiomatic expression and a concept used to suggest an avoidable error in which something good is eliminated when trying to get rid of something bad, or in other words, rejecting the essential along with the inessential. In my opinion PWE/Cryptic does a lot of this.
@headlesshorseman
So, how are we fair,honest players supposed to deal with this?
As the AD Exchange is a player driven market, you'll need to place your offer and then wait. The surplus of buy offers is steadily dropping.
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You guys however have just taken that choice away from me...
sorry but that is definitely an inaccurate statement.
3rd party sellers provide a competitive market where there is, by Terms of Service, a restriction against it. PWE is providing a service that is free to play with the option to buy zen for convenience items. for someone to sell the property of another for profit, it is theft. and if you are caught buying stolen items, you are also subject to the terms of the law.
making items acquired in-game as BoA or purchases like the enchanted keys is one way to limit ToS violations such as 3rd party selling. while it may also limit wealth building for some, there are many other ways within the game to gain wealth.
i definitely feel that this is a step in the right direction for PWE and hope they continue to make such strides in the future. 3rd party sellers do not help you... they are stealing from PWE and can actually limit their earning potential. if you support 3rd party sellers, you may find your days to be numbered as they continue to crack down on such activities.
Imagine a casino where players are actively prevented from knowing odds on any given game. Imagine this casino routinely changes rules in the middle of a game. These changes might prevent mob enforcers from muscling in on your turf, but one result is players now win fewer chips worth less than ever. Players don't care about the casino's bottom line. They care about their chips.
100% agreement.
Also, while 3rd party sites may eat into your profits, so do your over priced items.
You can sell a few coal wards at 500k AD/1000 zen, but you could sell the same guy 10 coal wards at 250k AD/500 zen.
It's not only that. I support banning bots, 3rd party sellers, and those that buy from sellers as a moral issue. Here's the deal, these sellers typically have ties to organised crime and are using it to launder their money. Supporting 3rd party sales means that in effect you could be supporting drug trafficking, sex trafficking (sex slavery), gun trafficking, terrorism, etc. Some really basic information can be found in this article. http://cybersecurity.mit.edu/2012/11/cyber-laundering-final-part-online-games/
No that is a completely accurate statement. A lot of people see the blatant overpriced store. Especially pvpers who want the best in order to compete. It's really just too expensive to get the high end stuff so they get it from somewhere that doesn't overcharge as much. If prices were actually farer, there would be a lot less people willing to take the risk. Also I'm pretty sure most companies sell the property of others for profit
- From a guy who earnt all of his AD from hard work but understands the costs of high level play and never used an AD seller.
That's funny because I distinctly remember that the new refinement system was specifically mentioned to help more people get rank 10s and perfect enchantments. Some people already had them at the time and now it's at the point where entry requirements are so much more and end savings are basically non existent. Also most people did have enough when they finished sharandar because that was seriously the worse campaign system ever. The other 2 were better but still had unenjoyable elements.
Many have already said they are too expensive.
I wont get one character fully upgraded enchants if I spend the next year on it.
If someone spends a couple hundred hours on one guy they should have some serious enchants. Oh wait you need artifacts too, and those need serious RP...way more in fact than could ever be attainable without people (and bots) who dont refine their artifacts selling enchants on the AH. How long would it take to grind those RP plus all the AD to get the coal wards plus the refining mats?
Way too long.
...way too much time to devote to one character on one MMO.
Don't tell me I'm being cheap either, i've bought a couple zen shop mounts with actual cash for zen.
I like supporting f2p games, and there is plenty I may spend on in the future.
...but I pay for stuff thats worth it, and ten bucks to refine an enchantment to get another 30 on my gs is too much.
I wouldn't dispute this in many regards but no matter what the price is the third party retailers (rule breakers) will always undercut it.
Unless the game is 100% free (can not exist) there will always be gold sellers and people who buy from them. It's not a sign that people feel the game costs too much. Nor is it a good approach even if you do.
Give feedback. Request reductions. Explain why those reductions are necessary.
If you stole from a store how much of a defense would it be to say "I stole it because I felt it cost too much?"
None at all.
And it's no different here.
name brands are the property of those that create and distribute those products/services. often you will see cheap knock offs of these products. sometimes you will even see cheap knock offs using fake name brands and logos on these products. when you have a third party company selling proprietary items that they do not own the rights to, this is a violation of the rights of the property owners. consumers often look for the best deal that is most economical for their wallet. most of the time, if you see something that is too good to be true, it probably is. engaging in transactions with less than savory individuals is risky because you could stand to lose both money and merchandise. in this case, you could lose access to your accounts through theft or by getting banned for violating the ToS.
in the grand scheme of things, the action PWE is taking by making keys BoA will protect the integrity of the game, it will protect users against 3rd party sellers and it will protect those that have invested time/money into the game by limiting 3rd party sellers.
Sorry but this is not true. Unless they make every item BoA, including AD and gold and don't allow you to salvage gear it is simply not going to protect anyone. If they truly are trying to "protect" their customers they need to get to the root of the real problem and stop trying to play whack a mole.
Well I already mentioned that there's no stopping the botters, but there comes a point where people start to look at alternative sources to get what they want. Have a compelling product at the right price, then lots of people will buy it. Restrict people getting it in any way, in this case being extremely uncompetitive prices then they will take the opportunity to get cheaper AD when given to them. Your stealing from a store analogy doesn't exactly match up though. If we ignore the bot equation, the buyer is just buying from someone who worked to earn his good but said he wouldn't sell them on. Nothing was stolen because work went into getting the goods and the buyer certainly didn't steal anything.
Having said that, I'm not suggesting people are fine to go out and buy from their nearest AD seller. Just that there are reasons people seek them out. It's nice that Cryptic have somewhat listened to us in some cases, but things are pretty far off from being the way a game should be in order to be both profitable and fair to players.
but how does ZAX determine when it is time to cash out my AD? I just put up 100k AD worth of zen and I am waiting. There is already 5 million worth of zen infront of the time I posted it. Are you saying me ZAX is so fluent that 5 mil worth of AD is gonna flush trough it in 1 day? I just want to know how does teh system decide when it is my turn to get my zen for my hard earned AD
First in first out, people will post their zen in order to buy our ad so you'll need to wait a few days. Offers keep getting bought and put up so you just need to wait your turn. It beats getting ripped off though. That depends on AH prices though. A lot of them rip you off, but atm (might not last soon, some aren't too bad of a price in order to not wait.
No, it means there is currently 5 million in orders waiting to be filled. Everyone is placing AD for sale, but there is not enough zen to fill all the orders. So there is a line, and everyone must wait their turn. You will get yours, when all the orders placed before you, get filled.
Also note that it's backed up because some sellers are exploiting the store and ah to make more than 500:1. This is why all cash shop items need to be bound to avoid this practice that uses a loophole to get around the developers previously stated goals about why the cap exists.
there is very little that isn't either bind to character or account. it's clear that third party sellers are a problem and making adjustments towards limiting how they can exploit the game is clearly a step in the right direction.
I still hold faith that everything will fall into place soon. Neverwinter is still young. I see many pros mixed with cons and the devs are listening even if it seems they aren't.
the definition of a competitor would be another business offering the same products/services to consumers. gold sellers do not fall under that definition. they are selling something they do not have the right to sell for a profit.
if i wrote a song and put it on the internet for free and some third party entity decided they were going to download it and sell it to someone else for a profit, they would be stealing from me regardless of the fact that i was offering the item at no cost. they are profiting from my labors. my work. my creativity.
you have a limited license and are bound by the terms of service of any game that you download and play. you do not own your characters or the items you purchase within the game. you are granted a license to use these items.
decisions a gaming company makes to protect their property is within their right to do so. your argument is whether or not they should if it negatively affects the player base as a whole. you would first have to prove that making keys BoA is going to eliminate wealth building in neverwinter and how, over time, this will negatively impact the game as a whole.
some people don't quite understand that with the free to play model, the gaming company expects player base fluctuations. but for as long as i've been on these forums, i've seen countless threads where people speculate how something is going to negatively affect the player base. the game is still here with new and old players. and i'm sure there have been some people that quit and never return just like there are people that take undetermined hiatuses.
it's okay to dislike changes and to speculate that it's going to negatively impact the game, but as i stated before, i think this is a move in the right direction. i do not approve of 3rd party sellers or theft. and not approving of the price of a gallon of milk doesn't give you a right to steal it or buy it from someone else that stole it and is selling it at a lower price.
All of that means nothing if you <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off the player base enough that no one plays. They might want to get rid of all the bots, but the direction of making so many things BoP is extremely bad for players that want to actually play the game.
The legal problems they run into with 3rd party sellers, is they are selling you a service not an item. Where do you draw the line in terms of what is helping or trading with someone vs 3rd party selling?
As an example, what if I want to help out a friend, sibling etc? Can I give them gold, AD, items? If the answer is no then this isn't an MMO and we might as well just play single player games. If the answer is yes, then how do you differentiate between saying someone "sold" you items as opposed to gave or traded.
At the end of the day, a properly designed game shouldn't in the least bit require anyone to "buy" gold, AD etc. You should be able to play the game and in the normal course of playing, find whatever you need.
What's more important, attempting to combat bots ineffectively (so far, not that can't improve) or providing a rewarding gameplay to the players. I started and enjoyed the game when it was rewarding. Then the game got more restricted and less rewarding. Now I spend most of my progression from not actually playing the game because the old stuff is stale and prices have gone down due to it being so old, and the new content has bad drops and lots of bop items that its not worth doing. Why is it that to progress the most, I can ignore playing any actual content? It's good that I'm able to, but I'd like to enjoy my time playing and I just can't do that when I feel like it's getting me nowhere.