The legal problems they run into with 3rd party sellers, is they are selling you a service not an item. Where do you draw the line in terms of what is helping or trading with someone vs 3rd party selling?
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onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
edited July 2014
I love Neverwinter and want it to succeed. Squandered potential makes me sad. I hope Cryptic starts looking for ways to limit bots without hosing the player base.
Thanks for responding to my post Melodywhr. Your position is even clearer than before. Bots are bad and Cryptic does indeed have the right to take any actions it pleases to combat bots. I'm not saying Cryptic shouldn't kill bots, I'm saying Cryptic needs to change the methods it uses to kill them. Killing bots is fine. Killing bots at the expense of players is not. I don't know if we're contending with a language barrier or if my posts are vague, but we're not grokking.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
I'm saying Cryptic needs to change the methods it uses to kill them. Killing bots is fine. Killing bots at the expense of players is not.
The thing is, we don't see how there is any expense to the players?
If you want to purchase keys use Zen. You can either take out your wallet or use the Zen Exchange.
And then saying "but the Zen Exchange is backlogged" is a completely different problem. The Zen exchange should not be sitting at 500 AD per Zen perpetually. So please just toss that reasoning out the door. That is a completely separate matter which has to be resolved.
So if that wasn't the concern...
How is it in any way hurtful to not be able to trade keys anymore?
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited July 2014
If I had to guess, I'd think that not banning the buyer would either be the result of them having spent a good amount, legitimately, or to try and limit the amount of backlash resulting in those players having lost access to their characters.
I share the sentiment with ambisinisterr, in that I'd punish both parties. Instead of an outright ban, however, I'd strip the buyer of the ill-gotten items/resources, and permanently flag their account - any future infraction would then result in a permanent ban.
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onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
The thing is, we don't see how there is any expense to the players?
If you want to purchase keys use Zen. You can either take out your wallet or use the Zen Exchange.
And then saying "but the Zen Exchange is backlogged" is a completely different problem. The Zen exchange should not be sitting at 500 AD per Zen perpetually. So please just toss that reasoning out the door. That is a completely separate matter which has to be resolved.
So if that wasn't the concern...
How is it in any way hurtful to not be able to trade keys anymore?
Ignoring all else and focusing solely on BoA keys....
Keys were used as a stable bartering standard. The trade channel was chock full of "will trade 'x' for keys". Now, there's no commonly available tradeable commodity. Players either need to find the ONE person willing to trade "z" for "q" or bite the bullet and post their items on AH. AH takes a 10% cut. Players are harmed by this. Unbound keys were a universal force for good.
Honestly, making keys BoA doesn't inconvenience bots at all. I've looked at several gold sites. They universally sell ADs and Gold. The only way BoA keys makes sense is if Cryptic plans to start buying out the ZAX backlog at 500:1....
Ignoring all else and focusing solely on BoA keys....
Keys were used as a stable bartering standard. The trade channel was chock full of "will trade 'x' for keys". Now, there's no commonly available tradeable commodity. Players either need to find the ONE person willing to trade "z" for "q" or bite the bullet and post their items on AH. AH takes a 10% cut. Players are harmed by this. Unbound keys were a universal force for good.
Honestly, making keys BoA doesn't inconvenience bots at all. I've looked at several gold sites. They universally sell ADs and Gold. The only way this move makes sense is if Cryptic plans to start buying out the ZAX backlog at 500:1....
Individual players may be hurt, but if all person to person trade was stopped the playerbase would benefit because the ah would be taking it's tax out and limiting inflation, which (inflation) is a major problem right now.
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onecoolscatcatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 575Arc User
Individual players may be hurt, but if all person to person trade was stopped the playerbase would benefit because the ah would be taking it's tax out and limiting inflation, which (inflation) is a major problem right now.
Are you suggesting a blanket removal of all peer-to-peer trade; forcing every transaction to use the AH is GOOD for players? That's contrary to everything I learned in my economics classes.
The thing is, we don't see how there is any expense to the players?
I guess the "hurt" on the playerbase is partly from the retroactive aspect of the change. Players who trade in keys or guilds using keys as rewards was not warned beforehand of this change, and therefore caught off-guard with loads of untradable keys.
The irony is that some of the botters and 3rd party sellers whom Cryptic is targeting to hit with this change got wind of the change from the Polish(?) forum beforehand and had some reaction time to minimize their loss, thus rendering Cryptic's move less effective.
Personally, I am not affected by this change at all. I don't trade keys. If I have an itch to open some lockboxes, I'll use the AD/Zen Ex. But since the massive backlog in the exchange, I stop getting Zen and keys altogether. In fact, I've stopped playing for the past few months as I got bored with the content and events.
I agree with others who suggested to BOA all Zen market items. Get Zen with real money or use the Exchange if you want anything from Zen market. There is no need to allow exploiters a way to make a quick buck playing the AH/Zen market/Exchange game.
The only items that should be allowed to be traded in AH where Zen and/or keys are concern should be stuff from lockboxes, as people like me with horrible RNG luck would sometimes want a pet or mount from lockboxes available to us.
Are you suggesting a blanket removal of all peer-to-peer trade; forcing every transaction to use the AH is GOOD for players? That's contrary to everything I learned in my economics classes.
You're confusing this with a real economy. Real economies have things like government mints that control the influx of currency, can set interest rates, and fight inflation. MMO economies have "gold" (in this case AD) sinks. Inflation can only be fought by making sure that there are enough sinks to pull out enough AD to equal the amount being created. That ratio is off right now so we have inflation and zax at 500:1 more expensive items on the ah than previous etc. People are bypassing the AD sink with peer to peer trading, which is part of why the system is broken. People will overall benefit from the system working even if you have hurt some to get it to work. Sacrifice a few for the benefit of the many.
In the real world as well, things wear out, break down, etc. This creates demand for replacements or for repair parts and services (one of my vehicles is 27 years old, I know of what I speak). In Neverwinter, items last forever, which results in far less demand for items as there would be (and the need for artificial AD sinks). Even in PnP AD&D, depending on house rules, you can break your weapon (natural 1 roll + failed weapon save), which doesn't exist here.
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Not quite true!
In NWO, Items loose their usability by rule changes and the introduction of more advanced equipment and get lost when their owner leaves the game without giving them to another player.
Not really true on the better items. In most cases the T2 set beats the T2.5 sets.
In the real world as well, things wear out, break down, etc. This creates demand for replacements or for repair parts and services (one of my vehicles is 27 years old, I know of what I speak). In Neverwinter, items last forever, which results in far less demand for items as there would be (and the need for artificial AD sinks). Even in PnP AD&D, depending on house rules, you can break your weapon (natural 1 roll + failed weapon save), which doesn't exist here.
You must not forget that with the IWD expansion , Degrading Equipment was introduced that had to be fed Black ice or it lost its functionality over time. Too fast in my opinion but there it was,gear that broke down. Also this is a magical land not your average everyday world so magic maintains some magical items like enchants and that's natural.Also in PnP magical weapons were unbreakable unless certain conditions were met in which case they were destroyed.Some artifacts are eternal,can you imagine the robes,eye and hand of Vecna being shredded to pieces after one sword swing or getting rusty due to wear? Magic would be a laughing matter if that happened.
It's BUGS bunny i tell you.
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The irony is that some of the botters and 3rd party sellers whom Cryptic is targeting to hit with this change got wind of the change from the Polish(?) forum beforehand and had some reaction time to minimize their loss, thus rendering Cryptic's move less effective.
I really don't believe their rational for making keys BoP.
If they really want to get rid of botters and 3rd party sites they would just make everything in the game BoP and get rid of the auction house. Then there is no need or way to trade AD.
I don't think cryptic gets the picture at all.
Ok so now keys are BOP. So what? Maybe... just maybe the botters lost a ton with the keys they already bought and can't trade. What's to prevent them from finding another source to barter with? Strictly speaking: Coal wards, Mounts, Companions, bags, etc.
This didn't stop anything, it only slowed them down.
I don't think cryptic gets the picture at all.
Ok so now keys are BOP. So what? Maybe... just maybe the botters lost a ton with the keys they already bought and can't trade. What's to prevent them from finding another source to barter with? Strictly speaking: Coal wards, Mounts, Companions, bags, etc.
This didn't stop anything, it only slowed them down.
Keys were a very common sale for a number of reasons. Mounts can't be resold, companions are very specific for each person, and are a fluff item. Coal wards would be their only real profit maker. And slowing something down is a step to stopping it isn't it?
I don't think cryptic gets the picture at all.
Ok so now keys are BOP. So what? Maybe... just maybe the botters lost a ton with the keys they already bought and can't trade. What's to prevent them from finding another source to barter with? Strictly speaking: Coal wards, Mounts, Companions, bags, etc.
This didn't stop anything, it only slowed them down.
Absolutely, everything in the Cash Shop needs to bind on acquire as a first step to fixing the ZAX.
Absolutely, everything in the Cash Shop needs to bind on acquire as a first step to fixing the ZAX.
How will that fix the zax? all that would do is create a even bigger backlog than now , at least now players can buy cash shop items from the auction house using ad , fair enough it is usually marked up some but that is the price of convenience ,if everything in the cash shop was bop then everybody would have to trade through the zax to buy cash items and the zax would be at a virtual standstill ,it is already pretty clear there is a huge shortfall in the amount of zen entering the game compared to demand .
How will that fix the zax? all that would do is create a even bigger backlog than now , at least now players can buy cash shop items from the auction house using ad , fair enough it is usually marked up some but that is the price of convenience ,if everything in the cash shop was bop then everybody would have to trade through the zax to buy cash items and the zax would be at a virtual standstill ,it is already pretty clear there is a huge shortfall in the amount of zen entering the game compared to demand .
It would fix it because the people that are buying zen and want ad do not use the ZAX right now. Why would they, they get more for their money from c. wards, p. wards, etc. They're getting around the ratio cap. This means that only "uneducated" zen sellers use the ZAX and that is why there is the backlog.
The nature of NW is such that it needs to have an AD sink; we can probably all agree on that, and that the current mechanism isn't adequate. In real life we have other "sinks" as well, though: we have to buy food, we need a warm/safe/dry to sleep every night, we have to replace things that wear out, we have to pay for transportation (tolls, gas, etc.) What if NW started to take on some of these aspects, but in a way to try to make the game more immersive and atmospheric?
- When we travel along the Sword Coast, whether to Sharandar, Dread Ring, or to somewhere else, what if we had to rest when we got there? Go too long without sleep and we undergo a debuff that worsens over time (like in the Baldur's Gate games).
- What if traveling wasn't guaranteed to be safe, and we might find ourselves in an encounter where we're being attacked by bandits? Do we need to pay a ransom to be left alone, or maybe pay hirelings to make such encounters less likely (or to fight at our sides)?
- What if we have to buy feed for our currently slotted mount? What if, on our journey to Dread Ring, we ran into a driving rainstorm and need to stable our mount? (NW could be so much better if it had day/night/weather cycles, hint, hint...). This one could be much more viable if we had many more towns available like Port Llast, Ember, West Harbor, etc.
- What if traveling to cold climes required cold-weather fashion gear, or we would suffer at minimum a debuff (which might worsen or turn into damage over time)?
This might seem OT, but I don't think it is; the change to keys appears to be an attempt to stabilize the economy, but perhaps there are other ways that might have the same effect and make gameplay more interesting.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
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The nature of NW is such that it needs to have an AD sink; we can probably all agree on that, and that the current mechanism isn't adequate. In real life we have other "sinks" as well, though: we have to buy food, we need a warm/safe/dry to sleep every night, we have to replace things that wear out, we have to pay for transportation (tolls, gas, etc.) What if NW started to take on some of these aspects, but in a way to try to make the game more immersive and atmospheric?
- When we travel along the Sword Coast, whether to Sharandar, Dread Ring, or to somewhere else, what if we had to rest when we got there? Go too long without sleep and we undergo a debuff that worsens over time (like in the Baldur's Gate games).
- What if traveling wasn't guaranteed to be safe, and we might find ourselves in an encounter where we're being attacked by bandits? Do we need to pay a ransom to be left alone, or maybe pay hirelings to make such encounters less likely (or to fight at our sides)?
- What if we have to buy feed for our currently slotted mount? What if, on our journey Dread Ring, we ran into a driving rainstorm and need to stable our mount? (NW could be so much better if it had day/night/weather cycles, hint, hint...). This one could be much more viable if we had many more towns available like Port Llast, Ember, West Harbor, etc.
- What if traveling to cold climes required cold-weather fashion gear, or we would suffer at minimum a debuff (which might worsen or turn into damage over time)?
This might seem OT, but I don't think it is; the change to keys appears to be an attempt to stabilize the economy, but perhaps there are other ways that might have the same effect and make gameplay more interesting.
I absolutely hate all your suggestions. They were the worst part of some other games I've played. Sorry but these are very bad sinks as they make the gameplay less fun. Sinks should not make it where it takes longer and is more of a pain to get to the content you are trying to play.
The nature of NW is such that it needs to have an AD sink; we can probably all agree on that, and that the current mechanism isn't adequate. In real life we have other "sinks" as well, though: we have to buy food, we need a warm/safe/dry to sleep every night, we have to replace things that wear out, we have to pay for transportation (tolls, gas, etc.) What if NW started to take on some of these aspects, but in a way to try to make the game more immersive and atmospheric?
- When we travel along the Sword Coast, whether to Sharandar, Dread Ring, or to somewhere else, what if we had to rest when we got there? Go too long without sleep and we undergo a debuff that worsens over time (like in the Baldur's Gate games).
- What if traveling wasn't guaranteed to be safe, and we might find ourselves in an encounter where we're being attacked by bandits? Do we need to pay a ransom to be left alone, or maybe pay hirelings to make such encounters less likely (or to fight at our sides)?
- What if we have to buy feed for our currently slotted mount? What if, on our journey to Dread Ring, we ran into a driving rainstorm and need to stable our mount? (NW could be so much better if it had day/night/weather cycles, hint, hint...). This one could be much more viable if we had many more towns available like Port Llast, Ember, West Harbor, etc.
- What if traveling to cold climes required cold-weather fashion gear, or we would suffer at minimum a debuff (which might worsen or turn into damage over time)?
This might seem OT, but I don't think it is; the change to keys appears to be an attempt to stabilize the economy, but perhaps there are other ways that might have the same effect and make gameplay more interesting.
Like it or not dude, NW Online is an Action RPG. The ideas you propose here are great ideas on their own, but they don't fit in an Action RPG like this. They're better suited for games like WoW and GW; in other words, true RPGs. Christ, this game doesn't even have any meaningful open-world mechanics, which you'd think would almost be required in order to have a sleep/resting system like that. <:\
I absolutely hate all your suggestions. They were the worst part of some other games I've played. Sorry but these are very bad sinks as they make the gameplay less fun. Sinks should not make it where it takes longer and is more of a pain to get to the content you are trying to play.
See what I mean? Many people who play this game aren't even very avid RPG players. Like this guy I just quoted (presumeably).
You play single player titles for story and immersion etc. MMO's are about combat and group mechanics.
. . . That may be true for some but for me it is not. I play MMOs because they are persistant worlds which (usually) receive constant updates and evolution of the game. The group mechanics are more of a bonus for me, as I play mostly solo. Immersion and story are extremely important to me in MMOs. More so than single player games and more so than group mechanics. . . . Single player games have an end and even those that "don't" still do in my opinion, as they get boring and have little replay value. Over the past few years, I have been feeling like Single Player games are a waste of money. I'd rather play and pay for an online game that constantly evolves, gets updates and fixes, and allows for social functions, should one desire.
. . . That may be true for some but for me it is not. I play MMOs because they are persistant worlds which (usually) receive constant updates and evolution of the game. The group mechanics are more of a bonus for me, as I play mostly solo. Immersion and story are extremely important to me in MMOs. More so than single player games and more so than group mechanics. . . . Single player games have an end and even those that "don't" still do in my opinion, as they get boring and have little replay value. Over the past few years, I have been feeling like Single Player games are a waste of money. I'd rather play and pay for an online game that constantly evolves, gets updates and fixes, and allows for social functions, should one desire.
The nature of NW is such that it needs to have an AD sink
I don't get it.
What is an "Astral Diamond Sink" and why do we need one any way?
I wish they would raise the Refinement Per Day limit from 24,000 as it is not enough. At level 60, I get more than 24,000 rough AD per day just from Dailies.
And that is without the 1000 AD per chest during a Skirmish and a lot more on top from Leadership tasks, plus 3000 to 10,000 from salvaging useless Epic Gear from Sharandar and Dread Ring that BoPs.
I had to stop playing with my main character (except Daily Arena PvP event for the Glory and Seals) as he had 63,000 rough AD to refine, so I resurrected my first character and after a few days she had 50,000 rough AD she could not refine as well.
So I bought blue gear for my nine level 46 to 55 Leadership mules so I could resume playing with them as many of them do not even have the second knapsack thing from Neverdeath Graveyard yet.
My "AD Sinks", if I understand the term, are buying Greater Scrolls of Identification for all the junk that drops everywhere - 2500 AD for 20 scrolls. I buy about 80 per day, so there's 10,000 AD down the drain.
Plus, my GPF cost me 4,050,000, a Soulforged was maybe 3 or 4 million (I forget now), plus Wards etc. plus, I bought a complete set of Grand Templar while I was saving the Glory and Seals for the Profound Virtuous set.
If I could get Zen for my AD, I'd buy keys in the next sale, or get them from the AH. Then I'd open boxes to get more Professions staff, Astral resonators, mounts, companions and artifacts to trade on the AH, so I can get even more AD. A Perfect Vorpal is about 10 million and a Perfect Barkskin up to 15 million. I don't see any need to limit the amount of AD I can refine, nor to waste the AD I have. refining enchants from Rank 5 to Rank 8 has taken me forever. I just wish I had enough AD to buy Rank 10s outright from the AH.
But now, I cannot even buy keys from the AH. Why? I have never cheated by buying illegitimate stuff from a 3rd party web site, and if I were THAT stupid and got my account hacked and my credit card ripped off, I'd only have myself to blame.
But that would never happen, because I am not an idiot.
Why a I being punished for not being an idiot, not being dishonest and not being a cheat?
I have 12 characters and two spare slots. Getting just one of them with three artifacts at Rank 100 and Rank 10 enchants on all 12 pieces of Gear, plus three on my Ioun Stone, with three Rank 10 Runes is going to take forever.
Sinks exist to limit inflation which is out of control. The prices on all the enchants that you mentioned have been going steadily upward overall because of inflation.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited July 2014
. . . To relate to the real world, a Money Sink in an MMO is akin to when the Government prints new money and the Banks slowly collect the old printed bills and then ship them off to be destroyed. It's to keep the market from becoming so inflated, devaluing the money, so that new players don't have to play for years to afford something. If all the AD ever created in the game stayed in the market, everything would just continue to get more and more expensive. What we need is for an overhaul to all our current AD sinks, making them cheaper and more affordable so that they are used more often.
Sinks exist to limit inflation which is out of control. The prices on all the enchants that you mentioned have been going steadily upward overall because of inflation.
Still don't get it. Maybe if you told me what a "sink" is and how it would work, I might have a better chance of understanding?
Because the way it is at the moment, it is not working at all. I cannot see how limiting the amount of AD I have and stopping me being able to afford something I want could be a good thing.
So, I managed to save enough AD to buy a Perfect Vorpal for 8 million, and I found the cheapest was then 10 million. So I got the GPF for 4 million and I'm waiting wait until someone undercuts the lowest price already up. I have done it before. I have 12 Greater Bags of Holding. Most were about 280k AD. The cheapest was 220k, the most expensive was 360k. The price of that one kept going out of my reach. I finally got it, and the next week there were ten for 240k, so I bought three. Now, they are about 500k or more, about the same as 1000 Zen (a ludicrous price). I would never pay that. If I REALLY needed another one, I'd wait for a Zen Market sale and get one from Cryptic for 750 Zen or 375,000 AD.
I always check the AH price and the various in-game sources. If it's cheaper for AD, I get it from the AH. But as Marks are on the AH for MORE than they cost from Rhix's Mistress, I get them from her. When I open boxes, I get Coalescent Wards with my Trade bars - but I would NEVER buy Preservation Wards from that bozo. The Trade Bar price is absurd. I'd rather buy them with Zen, or AD if they are cheaper. But there is no way I would ever pay 1000 Zen for a Coalescent Ward. I'd rather take my chances with a Preservation Ward.
The way they could control inflation is to reduce the Zen and Trade Bar price of things. They would not lose money, as I and many others would then actually buy MORE Zen with real-world cash. I don't understand how someone could ask 110k or more for something you can get from the Astral Diamond Merchant for 100k. And I don't understand who would pay it. If you find a Mark or get it from a box, and Cryptic sell them for 100k, then surely the AH upper limit should be 99.9k? Who are the fools posting them for 110k, and who are the idiots who pay it?
Apart from IWD apparently wrecking the AD exchange, I think the main problem now is the daft people who ask even dafter prices, and the even dafter people who pay it.
Comments
Simple:
You do not own any materials in the game. Therefore you may never purchase any materials for any real world currency other than when directly offered from either PWE or an Official Affiliate that is endorsed and permitted to run such a sale.
There is no website other than those owned by PWE which sells services for cash that is allowed to by law.
Thanks for responding to my post Melodywhr. Your position is even clearer than before. Bots are bad and Cryptic does indeed have the right to take any actions it pleases to combat bots. I'm not saying Cryptic shouldn't kill bots, I'm saying Cryptic needs to change the methods it uses to kill them. Killing bots is fine. Killing bots at the expense of players is not. I don't know if we're contending with a language barrier or if my posts are vague, but we're not grokking.
The thing is, we don't see how there is any expense to the players?
If you want to purchase keys use Zen. You can either take out your wallet or use the Zen Exchange.
And then saying "but the Zen Exchange is backlogged" is a completely different problem. The Zen exchange should not be sitting at 500 AD per Zen perpetually. So please just toss that reasoning out the door. That is a completely separate matter which has to be resolved.
So if that wasn't the concern...
How is it in any way hurtful to not be able to trade keys anymore?
I share the sentiment with ambisinisterr, in that I'd punish both parties. Instead of an outright ban, however, I'd strip the buyer of the ill-gotten items/resources, and permanently flag their account - any future infraction would then result in a permanent ban.
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Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Ignoring all else and focusing solely on BoA keys....
Keys were used as a stable bartering standard. The trade channel was chock full of "will trade 'x' for keys". Now, there's no commonly available tradeable commodity. Players either need to find the ONE person willing to trade "z" for "q" or bite the bullet and post their items on AH. AH takes a 10% cut. Players are harmed by this. Unbound keys were a universal force for good.
Honestly, making keys BoA doesn't inconvenience bots at all. I've looked at several gold sites. They universally sell ADs and Gold. The only way BoA keys makes sense is if Cryptic plans to start buying out the ZAX backlog at 500:1....
Individual players may be hurt, but if all person to person trade was stopped the playerbase would benefit because the ah would be taking it's tax out and limiting inflation, which (inflation) is a major problem right now.
Are you suggesting a blanket removal of all peer-to-peer trade; forcing every transaction to use the AH is GOOD for players? That's contrary to everything I learned in my economics classes.
I guess the "hurt" on the playerbase is partly from the retroactive aspect of the change. Players who trade in keys or guilds using keys as rewards was not warned beforehand of this change, and therefore caught off-guard with loads of untradable keys.
The irony is that some of the botters and 3rd party sellers whom Cryptic is targeting to hit with this change got wind of the change from the Polish(?) forum beforehand and had some reaction time to minimize their loss, thus rendering Cryptic's move less effective.
Personally, I am not affected by this change at all. I don't trade keys. If I have an itch to open some lockboxes, I'll use the AD/Zen Ex. But since the massive backlog in the exchange, I stop getting Zen and keys altogether. In fact, I've stopped playing for the past few months as I got bored with the content and events.
I agree with others who suggested to BOA all Zen market items. Get Zen with real money or use the Exchange if you want anything from Zen market. There is no need to allow exploiters a way to make a quick buck playing the AH/Zen market/Exchange game.
The only items that should be allowed to be traded in AH where Zen and/or keys are concern should be stuff from lockboxes, as people like me with horrible RNG luck would sometimes want a pet or mount from lockboxes available to us.
You're confusing this with a real economy. Real economies have things like government mints that control the influx of currency, can set interest rates, and fight inflation. MMO economies have "gold" (in this case AD) sinks. Inflation can only be fought by making sure that there are enough sinks to pull out enough AD to equal the amount being created. That ratio is off right now so we have inflation and zax at 500:1 more expensive items on the ah than previous etc. People are bypassing the AD sink with peer to peer trading, which is part of why the system is broken. People will overall benefit from the system working even if you have hurt some to get it to work. Sacrifice a few for the benefit of the many.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
You must not forget that with the IWD expansion , Degrading Equipment was introduced that had to be fed Black ice or it lost its functionality over time. Too fast in my opinion but there it was,gear that broke down. Also this is a magical land not your average everyday world so magic maintains some magical items like enchants and that's natural.Also in PnP magical weapons were unbreakable unless certain conditions were met in which case they were destroyed.Some artifacts are eternal,can you imagine the robes,eye and hand of Vecna being shredded to pieces after one sword swing or getting rusty due to wear? Magic would be a laughing matter if that happened.
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I really don't believe their rational for making keys BoP.
If they really want to get rid of botters and 3rd party sites they would just make everything in the game BoP and get rid of the auction house. Then there is no need or way to trade AD.
Ok so now keys are BOP. So what? Maybe... just maybe the botters lost a ton with the keys they already bought and can't trade. What's to prevent them from finding another source to barter with? Strictly speaking: Coal wards, Mounts, Companions, bags, etc.
This didn't stop anything, it only slowed them down.
Keys were a very common sale for a number of reasons. Mounts can't be resold, companions are very specific for each person, and are a fluff item. Coal wards would be their only real profit maker. And slowing something down is a step to stopping it isn't it?
How will that fix the zax? all that would do is create a even bigger backlog than now , at least now players can buy cash shop items from the auction house using ad , fair enough it is usually marked up some but that is the price of convenience ,if everything in the cash shop was bop then everybody would have to trade through the zax to buy cash items and the zax would be at a virtual standstill ,it is already pretty clear there is a huge shortfall in the amount of zen entering the game compared to demand .
It would fix it because the people that are buying zen and want ad do not use the ZAX right now. Why would they, they get more for their money from c. wards, p. wards, etc. They're getting around the ratio cap. This means that only "uneducated" zen sellers use the ZAX and that is why there is the backlog.
The nature of NW is such that it needs to have an AD sink; we can probably all agree on that, and that the current mechanism isn't adequate. In real life we have other "sinks" as well, though: we have to buy food, we need a warm/safe/dry to sleep every night, we have to replace things that wear out, we have to pay for transportation (tolls, gas, etc.) What if NW started to take on some of these aspects, but in a way to try to make the game more immersive and atmospheric?
- When we travel along the Sword Coast, whether to Sharandar, Dread Ring, or to somewhere else, what if we had to rest when we got there? Go too long without sleep and we undergo a debuff that worsens over time (like in the Baldur's Gate games).
- What if traveling wasn't guaranteed to be safe, and we might find ourselves in an encounter where we're being attacked by bandits? Do we need to pay a ransom to be left alone, or maybe pay hirelings to make such encounters less likely (or to fight at our sides)?
- What if we have to buy feed for our currently slotted mount? What if, on our journey to Dread Ring, we ran into a driving rainstorm and need to stable our mount? (NW could be so much better if it had day/night/weather cycles, hint, hint...). This one could be much more viable if we had many more towns available like Port Llast, Ember, West Harbor, etc.
- What if traveling to cold climes required cold-weather fashion gear, or we would suffer at minimum a debuff (which might worsen or turn into damage over time)?
This might seem OT, but I don't think it is; the change to keys appears to be an attempt to stabilize the economy, but perhaps there are other ways that might have the same effect and make gameplay more interesting.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I absolutely hate all your suggestions. They were the worst part of some other games I've played. Sorry but these are very bad sinks as they make the gameplay less fun. Sinks should not make it where it takes longer and is more of a pain to get to the content you are trying to play.
Like it or not dude, NW Online is an Action RPG. The ideas you propose here are great ideas on their own, but they don't fit in an Action RPG like this. They're better suited for games like WoW and GW; in other words, true RPGs. Christ, this game doesn't even have any meaningful open-world mechanics, which you'd think would almost be required in order to have a sleep/resting system like that. <:\
See what I mean? Many people who play this game aren't even very avid RPG players. Like this guy I just quoted (presumeably).
. . . Single player games have an end and even those that "don't" still do in my opinion, as they get boring and have little replay value. Over the past few years, I have been feeling like Single Player games are a waste of money. I'd rather play and pay for an online game that constantly evolves, gets updates and fixes, and allows for social functions, should one desire.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I don't get it.
What is an "Astral Diamond Sink" and why do we need one any way?
I wish they would raise the Refinement Per Day limit from 24,000 as it is not enough. At level 60, I get more than 24,000 rough AD per day just from Dailies.
And that is without the 1000 AD per chest during a Skirmish and a lot more on top from Leadership tasks, plus 3000 to 10,000 from salvaging useless Epic Gear from Sharandar and Dread Ring that BoPs.
I had to stop playing with my main character (except Daily Arena PvP event for the Glory and Seals) as he had 63,000 rough AD to refine, so I resurrected my first character and after a few days she had 50,000 rough AD she could not refine as well.
So I bought blue gear for my nine level 46 to 55 Leadership mules so I could resume playing with them as many of them do not even have the second knapsack thing from Neverdeath Graveyard yet.
My "AD Sinks", if I understand the term, are buying Greater Scrolls of Identification for all the junk that drops everywhere - 2500 AD for 20 scrolls. I buy about 80 per day, so there's 10,000 AD down the drain.
Plus, my GPF cost me 4,050,000, a Soulforged was maybe 3 or 4 million (I forget now), plus Wards etc. plus, I bought a complete set of Grand Templar while I was saving the Glory and Seals for the Profound Virtuous set.
If I could get Zen for my AD, I'd buy keys in the next sale, or get them from the AH. Then I'd open boxes to get more Professions staff, Astral resonators, mounts, companions and artifacts to trade on the AH, so I can get even more AD. A Perfect Vorpal is about 10 million and a Perfect Barkskin up to 15 million. I don't see any need to limit the amount of AD I can refine, nor to waste the AD I have. refining enchants from Rank 5 to Rank 8 has taken me forever. I just wish I had enough AD to buy Rank 10s outright from the AH.
But now, I cannot even buy keys from the AH. Why? I have never cheated by buying illegitimate stuff from a 3rd party web site, and if I were THAT stupid and got my account hacked and my credit card ripped off, I'd only have myself to blame.
But that would never happen, because I am not an idiot.
Why a I being punished for not being an idiot, not being dishonest and not being a cheat?
I have 12 characters and two spare slots. Getting just one of them with three artifacts at Rank 100 and Rank 10 enchants on all 12 pieces of Gear, plus three on my Ioun Stone, with three Rank 10 Runes is going to take forever.
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[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Still don't get it. Maybe if you told me what a "sink" is and how it would work, I might have a better chance of understanding?
Because the way it is at the moment, it is not working at all. I cannot see how limiting the amount of AD I have and stopping me being able to afford something I want could be a good thing.
So, I managed to save enough AD to buy a Perfect Vorpal for 8 million, and I found the cheapest was then 10 million. So I got the GPF for 4 million and I'm waiting wait until someone undercuts the lowest price already up. I have done it before. I have 12 Greater Bags of Holding. Most were about 280k AD. The cheapest was 220k, the most expensive was 360k. The price of that one kept going out of my reach. I finally got it, and the next week there were ten for 240k, so I bought three. Now, they are about 500k or more, about the same as 1000 Zen (a ludicrous price). I would never pay that. If I REALLY needed another one, I'd wait for a Zen Market sale and get one from Cryptic for 750 Zen or 375,000 AD.
I always check the AH price and the various in-game sources. If it's cheaper for AD, I get it from the AH. But as Marks are on the AH for MORE than they cost from Rhix's Mistress, I get them from her. When I open boxes, I get Coalescent Wards with my Trade bars - but I would NEVER buy Preservation Wards from that bozo. The Trade Bar price is absurd. I'd rather buy them with Zen, or AD if they are cheaper. But there is no way I would ever pay 1000 Zen for a Coalescent Ward. I'd rather take my chances with a Preservation Ward.
The way they could control inflation is to reduce the Zen and Trade Bar price of things. They would not lose money, as I and many others would then actually buy MORE Zen with real-world cash. I don't understand how someone could ask 110k or more for something you can get from the Astral Diamond Merchant for 100k. And I don't understand who would pay it. If you find a Mark or get it from a box, and Cryptic sell them for 100k, then surely the AH upper limit should be 99.9k? Who are the fools posting them for 110k, and who are the idiots who pay it?
Apart from IWD apparently wrecking the AD exchange, I think the main problem now is the daft people who ask even dafter prices, and the even dafter people who pay it.
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