The in-game prices are crazy and need to be re-set.
Coalescent Wards = 1000 Zen for one (ludicrous price, even if you buy 21,300 Zen for €180) = 500k AD or 200 Tarmalune Trade Bars and BoP?
Preservation Wards = 100 Zen for 10 (sensible price) = 50k AD or 200 Tarmalune Trade Bars for FIVE? Madness. Should be 20 TTB for 10.
But prices should not be re-set by increasing the cost of Preservation Wards.
Coalescent Wards should be reduced at least to 500 Zen, 375 in a Ward Sale, while the cost of Preservation Wards in Trade Bars should be massively reduced, as this is just crazy.
And now drops from Boxes are BtA? No wonder things are so over-priced.
I always use TTB Coalescent Wards for Weapon and Armour enchants, but my Guild Captain used to Trade them directly for AD. As no one has been able to do that for quite some time, there is obviously less supply with the same demand, so the price has gone up. This also means fewer enchants can be made. Some of the enormous prices are due to groups of people laundering their Pirate AD from 3rd Party sites. I will not discuss the details of how this could be done; I have never done it and never would as I think these 3rd party sites are most likely to be scammers and crooks.
The only way to stop that would be to ban those accounts if sufficient evidence exists.
At the moment, you use 4 shards and a Coal Ward to make a Lesser Enchant, and it sells for LESS than the cost of the Ward on it's own.
And I think Enchanted Keys should have a chance to drop (everything except Dye Packs, Mounts, Companions, Character Slots, Retraining Tokens etc) - ALL consumables like refining stones and Enchants should have a chance to drop, AND be found in Lockbox Enchantment Packs. And there should be a full range available from different Traders, both for Zen and for AD.
And the price of Keys should be permanently reduced to 75 Zen each, 675 Zen for a pack of 10.
And Sales should reduce that price by 20% = 60 Zen for 1, 540 Zen for a Pack of 10. And they should BoP to Account, as they now do.
But the contents of Lockboxes should always be tradable.
That way, people would be more attracted to buying Zen more often, would not worry so much about waiting for Key Sales and there will be an influx of stuff into the AH which would undercut the current prices and drive the market down. Then they need to deal with people who purchase Pirate material and use the game to launder the proceeds.
Except neither he nor you actually get it. You're good at stating the symptoms but that's where it stops. Your so called 'solutions' are derived from what you want to happen at which point the rest of your arguments are based entirely on a logical fallacy that fail to account for the underlying causes. Bald's text is painfully obvious in that regard.
Interesting that you would call out a nameless logical fallacy while providing one of your own in an unsupported assertion.
This discussion would benefit if you were a little less vague.
Too much botting, billions of exploited AD out there plus look at history with Diablo 3's real money auction house. When they raised the cap, the gold just devalued immediately because you cannot combat 3rd party sellers on this specific front.
Learn from history Cryptic, don't make this same stupid mistake.
Most people cringed at a 400+:1 rate before, and look at it now, it's been on 500 for months. Just because people won't like it at first doesn't guarantee that it won't cap at 1000 in the future.
It would cap at 1000 immediately.
But this game is popular and rightly so. This is a very good game and worthy of money spent on it. Higher exchange price would mean, you get more for your RL money.
TBH I was against raising the cap, but..... currently I would suggest Cryptic to raise it temporarily, at least to see what would be the result in practice. I'm also curious. Anyone who would approach this game with open wallet could catch up much faster.
And I suggest temporarily because it may kill the game immediately too. And I want to play this game for a long time lol...
Bottom line is that no one knows what metrics Cryptic is using to measure the economy. We do know they don't want the ZAX circumvented by using keys for currency and that they feel 500 AD = 1 zen is as high as they want the exchange right now.
I think they need two things. More reasonable priced Zen items, and attractive, multiple use, AD sinks.
If Zen items were reasonable priced, I for one would buy them. If a cool mount was $10-$15, i would buy it. But I am not paying $45. The only thing reasonably priced is keys. And they are a great seller, don't get me wrong, but the rest just isn't worth it. Make the stuff reasonable, and people will pay money for it, and the overflow zen would make it into the ZAX.
There is too much AD in the game. Bots plus leadership is the worst reason for this, but you don't want to hurt the legit people using it. So you need more AD sinks. Sell keys with AD for a while is a thought, but Cryptic might lose money during that time. Sell coal wards for a decent AD cost.
For an AD sink to be most effective, it has to be reoccurring. Marks of Potency/etc are a start, but not enough when they drop in game too. Mount and companion upgrades are too expensive, wondrous bazaar items are crazy over-priced (million ad for a blue item, really?).
I don't have a good idea what a good AD sink would be, but I can't believe cryptic can't come up with one. Look at how much demand there is for their zen market items? The items are good, if you buy them with AD via ZAX, just too expensive with real money. Raise the value of AD by taking a bunch of it out of the game, and you then raise the worth of using real money instead of AD for it.
And I can't imagine that making keys BOP to hurt the 3rd party people worked. Since then there is now no risk for using keys, as the stuff from the boxes makes you a profit now. So the 3rd party people just used the keys and made AD to sell.
Make coal wards available for 250k AD through WB.
Wards bought through WB are BoA, and any enchants upgraded with WB wards would also become bind on account.
Leave coal wards available in zen shop at 1000 zen that aren't BoA.
Those that are on zen shop will not make enchants BoA and can be sold on AH.
Paying players, and people who play the auction house will still be able to make enchants and sell them.
Non paying players will be able to progress their chars without spending a month to grind each refinement.
Side effect: Coal wards in AH will come down. People will stop selling coal wards from zen shop for over 500AD/zen cap as
people will no longer be reliant on the AH to get a ward, eliminating Coal Wards as an easy way to avoid the 500AD/zen cap.
At 250 K ad per ward it would still take someone a year to get all perfects.
At 500 K ad/1000zen they could still sell enchants on AH to people who didn't want to grind that long for a BoA perfect enchant.
It may cut into the profits of the big guys with a bunch of wards to sell, but would make progression easier for newer players without adding a new item to be abused in AH.
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gornonthecobMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 421Arc User
edited July 2014
This change was made for NO OTHER REASON than to keep the ZEN market capped out (forcing the purchase of ZEN), and to stop the trade of keys on the Auction House for those players who wanted to continue to utilize the ZEN market gains from ZEN to AD.
I just bought 10 keys with no prior knowledge that they were now BoP. Foul move, Cryptic. Foul move.
This change was made for NO OTHER REASON than to keep the ZEN market capped out (forcing the purchase of ZEN), and to stop the trade of keys on the Auction House for those players who wanted to continue to utilize the ZEN market gains from ZEN to AD.
I just bought 10 keys with no prior knowledge that they were now BoP. Foul move, Cryptic. Foul move.
I've bought 5k zen from the ZAX since keys were bound. Keys being bound doesn't make the backlog, keys being bound also doesn't force you to spend real money as you can certainly still buy zen.
Key sales will drop with a change to BoA status, unless we're going to see a better selection of items with improved chance of dropping in the lockboxes. Or an overall drop in price on keys making them and the box contents more of a tease.
This will not affect the zen exchange in any beneficial way as there will be less reason to think about wanting zen.
Up til now I've tended to buy some keys when they're on sale and use some and trade the rest. With the BoA change that habit will probably change to getting fewer keys on sale and opening less boxes as a result. With no additions to the bar store there's no even that carrot to dangle.
Shame as there's nothing else in the zen shop I'd actually consider given the removal of the weekly sales in favour of the stupid tokens that randomly drop and expire after an hour or so. Mounts are not something you need more than one of due to the way they're worked, a stables tab with pay to increase the size would make them more desirable but for the fact the prices are all over the place amoungst the quality levels. Cosmetics are BLAND again with no specific storage options. Minions are similar to mounts on pricing so again not likely to buy. And the single shot items are not something I'd ever consider from a real money cash shop.
The zen store should contain stuff that is both interesting in use and in price, BoA keys will make that interest vanish.
Cryptic have been using the gambleboxes for quite some time now in STO and CO so there's no way they can say they couldnt predict the current situation with the ingame economy for NW. The addition of store only items for crafting alongside the new gamblebox for lagwind dale made the current situation inevitable. They only really have themselves to blame for pushing weaker willed players towards the spamming scum.
I can see that same bracket of players just buying AD instead now as they will be forced to wade through the overinflated AH for stuff instead. Unless the bean counters look long term we'll just see more and more efforts like this to plug holes in a sieve like black market economy.
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gornonthecobMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 421Arc User
I've bought 5k zen from the ZAX since keys were bound. Keys being bound doesn't make the backlog, keys being bound also doesn't force you to spend real money as you can certainly still buy zen.
I didn't mean that it stops you from buying ZEN, I said it stops you from playing the market. ie Buy low, sell high. The market is currently frozen, so AD gains are impossible.
Recently, there has been an alarming amount of reported issues surrounding Enchanted Keys. This has taken the form of people’s accounts getting hacked or stolen after buying keys from a 3rd party site, people spending money on 3rd party sites and not receiving their keys, and many other situations that negatively impact a player’s experience in Neverwinter.
In an effort to diminish the effectiveness of these individuals’ efforts, we have made a large but necessary change, to make Enchanted Keys Bind on Account. This change will be retroactive, meaning this will affect all keys in Neverwinter regardless of when they’ve been purchased. This is done to ensure that nefarious individuals will no longer be able to scam players using Enchanted Keys as bait.
Moving forward, keys will automatically bind to a player’s account when they have been purchased from the Zen Market. We also have a plan for keys contained within in communal areas like Guild Banks or the Auction house. Keys stored in Guild Banks will Bind to the account of the player that withdraws them. Keys currently for sale in the auction house will bind to the account of the player who purchases them.
We realize that this change may be seen as drastic, but know that we do it with the intention of protecting the safety and well-being of our players.
Thanks all,
-Chris Matz, Lead Designer
Your effort has failed miserably, revert the change, It's been 3 months and the goldsellers have not diminish, everyday I must report 5 to 6 gold sellers in the trade channel x 7 characters I spend more time reporting then playing. With the new treasures drop players need to be able to buy keys with gold.
Recently, there has been an alarming amount of reported issues surrounding Enchanted Keys. This has taken the form of people’s accounts getting hacked or stolen after buying keys from a 3rd party site, people spending money on 3rd party sites and not receiving their keys, and many other situations that negatively impact a player’s experience in Neverwinter.
In an effort to diminish the effectiveness of these individuals’ efforts, we have made a large but necessary change, to make Enchanted Keys Bind on Account. This change will be retroactive, meaning this will affect all keys in Neverwinter regardless of when they’ve been purchased. This is done to ensure that nefarious individuals will no longer be able to scam players using Enchanted Keys as bait.
Moving forward, keys will automatically bind to a player’s account when they have been purchased from the Zen Market. We also have a plan for keys contained within in communal areas like Guild Banks or the Auction house. Keys stored in Guild Banks will Bind to the account of the player that withdraws them. Keys currently for sale in the auction house will bind to the account of the player who purchases them.
We realize that this change may be seen as drastic, but know that we do it with the intention of protecting the safety and well-being of our players.
Thanks all,
-Chris Matz, Lead Designer
easy fix just don't allow 3rd party to post in game period
Comments
Coalescent Wards = 1000 Zen for one (ludicrous price, even if you buy 21,300 Zen for €180) = 500k AD or 200 Tarmalune Trade Bars and BoP?
Preservation Wards = 100 Zen for 10 (sensible price) = 50k AD or 200 Tarmalune Trade Bars for FIVE? Madness. Should be 20 TTB for 10.
But prices should not be re-set by increasing the cost of Preservation Wards.
Coalescent Wards should be reduced at least to 500 Zen, 375 in a Ward Sale, while the cost of Preservation Wards in Trade Bars should be massively reduced, as this is just crazy.
And now drops from Boxes are BtA? No wonder things are so over-priced.
I always use TTB Coalescent Wards for Weapon and Armour enchants, but my Guild Captain used to Trade them directly for AD. As no one has been able to do that for quite some time, there is obviously less supply with the same demand, so the price has gone up. This also means fewer enchants can be made. Some of the enormous prices are due to groups of people laundering their Pirate AD from 3rd Party sites. I will not discuss the details of how this could be done; I have never done it and never would as I think these 3rd party sites are most likely to be scammers and crooks.
The only way to stop that would be to ban those accounts if sufficient evidence exists.
At the moment, you use 4 shards and a Coal Ward to make a Lesser Enchant, and it sells for LESS than the cost of the Ward on it's own.
And I think Enchanted Keys should have a chance to drop (everything except Dye Packs, Mounts, Companions, Character Slots, Retraining Tokens etc) - ALL consumables like refining stones and Enchants should have a chance to drop, AND be found in Lockbox Enchantment Packs. And there should be a full range available from different Traders, both for Zen and for AD.
And the price of Keys should be permanently reduced to 75 Zen each, 675 Zen for a pack of 10.
And Sales should reduce that price by 20% = 60 Zen for 1, 540 Zen for a Pack of 10. And they should BoP to Account, as they now do.
But the contents of Lockboxes should always be tradable.
That way, people would be more attracted to buying Zen more often, would not worry so much about waiting for Key Sales and there will be an influx of stuff into the AH which would undercut the current prices and drive the market down. Then they need to deal with people who purchase Pirate material and use the game to launder the proceeds.
~
Interesting that you would call out a nameless logical fallacy while providing one of your own in an unsupported assertion.
This discussion would benefit if you were a little less vague.
Learn from history Cryptic, don't make this same stupid mistake.
It would cap at 1000 immediately.
But this game is popular and rightly so. This is a very good game and worthy of money spent on it. Higher exchange price would mean, you get more for your RL money.
TBH I was against raising the cap, but..... currently I would suggest Cryptic to raise it temporarily, at least to see what would be the result in practice. I'm also curious. Anyone who would approach this game with open wallet could catch up much faster.
And I suggest temporarily because it may kill the game immediately too. And I want to play this game for a long time lol...
If Zen items were reasonable priced, I for one would buy them. If a cool mount was $10-$15, i would buy it. But I am not paying $45. The only thing reasonably priced is keys. And they are a great seller, don't get me wrong, but the rest just isn't worth it. Make the stuff reasonable, and people will pay money for it, and the overflow zen would make it into the ZAX.
There is too much AD in the game. Bots plus leadership is the worst reason for this, but you don't want to hurt the legit people using it. So you need more AD sinks. Sell keys with AD for a while is a thought, but Cryptic might lose money during that time. Sell coal wards for a decent AD cost.
For an AD sink to be most effective, it has to be reoccurring. Marks of Potency/etc are a start, but not enough when they drop in game too. Mount and companion upgrades are too expensive, wondrous bazaar items are crazy over-priced (million ad for a blue item, really?).
I don't have a good idea what a good AD sink would be, but I can't believe cryptic can't come up with one. Look at how much demand there is for their zen market items? The items are good, if you buy them with AD via ZAX, just too expensive with real money. Raise the value of AD by taking a bunch of it out of the game, and you then raise the worth of using real money instead of AD for it.
And I can't imagine that making keys BOP to hurt the 3rd party people worked. Since then there is now no risk for using keys, as the stuff from the boxes makes you a profit now. So the 3rd party people just used the keys and made AD to sell.
Make coal wards available for 250k AD through WB.
Wards bought through WB are BoA, and any enchants upgraded with WB wards would also become bind on account.
Leave coal wards available in zen shop at 1000 zen that aren't BoA.
Those that are on zen shop will not make enchants BoA and can be sold on AH.
Paying players, and people who play the auction house will still be able to make enchants and sell them.
Non paying players will be able to progress their chars without spending a month to grind each refinement.
Side effect: Coal wards in AH will come down. People will stop selling coal wards from zen shop for over 500AD/zen cap as
people will no longer be reliant on the AH to get a ward, eliminating Coal Wards as an easy way to avoid the 500AD/zen cap.
At 250 K ad per ward it would still take someone a year to get all perfects.
At 500 K ad/1000zen they could still sell enchants on AH to people who didn't want to grind that long for a BoA perfect enchant.
It may cut into the profits of the big guys with a bunch of wards to sell, but would make progression easier for newer players without adding a new item to be abused in AH.
I just bought 10 keys with no prior knowledge that they were now BoP. Foul move, Cryptic. Foul move.
Locksheon Gaming
Follow me on Twitch - Youtube - Facebook!
30 Jul 2014 20:54 329 Purchased 2208 for 500 each.
30 Jul 2014 20:54 329 Purchased 2792 for 500 each.
30 Jul 2014 20:54 330 Purchased 150 for 500 each.
30 Jul 2014 20:54 330 Purchased 2208 for 500 each.
30 Jul 2014 20:54 330 Purchased 2642 for 500 each.
30 Jul 2014 20:45 328 Purchased 546 for 500 each.
30 Jul 2014 20:43 328 Purchased 60 for 500 each.
30 Jul 2014 20:41 328 Purchased 1894 for 500 each.
30 Jul 2014 20:41 328 Purchased 2500 for 500 each.
25 Jul 2014 08:02 328 Poor Damsel offered to buy 5000 for 500 each.
25 Jul 2014 08:02 329 Poor Damsel offered to buy 5000 for 500 each.
25 Jul 2014 08:02 330 Poor Damsel offered to buy 5000 for 500 each.
This will not affect the zen exchange in any beneficial way as there will be less reason to think about wanting zen.
Up til now I've tended to buy some keys when they're on sale and use some and trade the rest. With the BoA change that habit will probably change to getting fewer keys on sale and opening less boxes as a result. With no additions to the bar store there's no even that carrot to dangle.
Shame as there's nothing else in the zen shop I'd actually consider given the removal of the weekly sales in favour of the stupid tokens that randomly drop and expire after an hour or so. Mounts are not something you need more than one of due to the way they're worked, a stables tab with pay to increase the size would make them more desirable but for the fact the prices are all over the place amoungst the quality levels. Cosmetics are BLAND again with no specific storage options. Minions are similar to mounts on pricing so again not likely to buy. And the single shot items are not something I'd ever consider from a real money cash shop.
The zen store should contain stuff that is both interesting in use and in price, BoA keys will make that interest vanish.
Cryptic have been using the gambleboxes for quite some time now in STO and CO so there's no way they can say they couldnt predict the current situation with the ingame economy for NW. The addition of store only items for crafting alongside the new gamblebox for lagwind dale made the current situation inevitable. They only really have themselves to blame for pushing weaker willed players towards the spamming scum.
I can see that same bracket of players just buying AD instead now as they will be forced to wade through the overinflated AH for stuff instead. Unless the bean counters look long term we'll just see more and more efforts like this to plug holes in a sieve like black market economy.
I didn't mean that it stops you from buying ZEN, I said it stops you from playing the market. ie Buy low, sell high. The market is currently frozen, so AD gains are impossible.
Locksheon Gaming
Follow me on Twitch - Youtube - Facebook!
Your effort has failed miserably, revert the change, It's been 3 months and the goldsellers have not diminish, everyday I must report 5 to 6 gold sellers in the trade channel x 7 characters I spend more time reporting then playing. With the new treasures drop players need to be able to buy keys with gold.
The Zen(Z) to AD(A) Exchange(X)
grroowwwllll
easy fix just don't allow 3rd party to post in game period
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