Honest question. Are you sure his account wasn't compromised? Sometimes people get hacked and the first thing the farmer does is liquidate as much of the guild bank as possible.
I've actually had this happen with a fellow officer. Didn't lose a lot, but it was stressful until we got it sorted out.
Re: guild bank permissions
Very occasionally, funky things seem to happen with withdraw permissions, and low ranks end up with access to more than they should have. For the most part, they should be officer-controlled though, and you can fine-tune them with a high level of precision. If you're willing to keep your bank organized, you can set it up so that new members can withdraw enough from the bank for it to be useful for levelling, but still don't have access to anything truly valuable to liquidate. Every tab can have a different set of permissions.
I have always found it an interesting social phenomenon that everyone who asks me "how do I get promoted?" is obviously gunning for more withdraw permissions, whereas the people who earn their promotions unasked by participating in guildstuff typically donate far more than they take.
Generally speaking, spying, deceiving and stealing or otherwise being "ingame" bad to players or guilds is usually considered a normal gameplay in most MMOs
It isn't in Neverwinter , anything that would be considered 'illegal' in a real world community is against the ToS for Neverwinter xD
ToS 15.1 User conduct -
15.1You must observe these Terms, all Rules of Conduct, all applicable laws and all basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy when using the Service. Any conduct that violates the law in an offline, real world community is also a violation of these terms. We will not tolerate any illegal or offensive conduct.
As for the OP , he shouldn't give full rights to withdraw everything to anybody , everybody including officers should have a limit ,if they need more they can always ask.
You're still missing the point. Taking what's not rightfully yours is stealing. It doesn't matter if you have 50 locks on the vault or gave him the key is good faith. It's not about you, or your opinion. Not even about my own.
The law acts upon the person breaking that law, not the security measures in place, or for that matter, the absence of them. Again, having access to someone's stuff, is not the same as a green light to take it. If you think that opening the vault for a member is saying "take whatever you please", you're mistaken. At best it says "we trust you not to do anything you wouldn't want us to do with your stuff." The fact thieves interpret that as an invitation is a fault in their reasoning, deliberate or otherwise.
In your personal opinion you're entitled to blame anyone or anything you wish, but it does not chance the criminal behavior of the thief. It the behavior that's punishable, nor the level of your faith in the person.
Actually, I think in this case you are missing the point. He was given access to the guild bank specifically so that he could take things out. It's not like he was house-sitting and made off with someone else's stuff. He was given access so that he could take what he wanted/needed.
As an analogy, consider this. You stop by my house as I'm heading to the store. I say I'll be back, there's beer in the fridge -- help yourself. When I come back, you're gone and so is all the beer. Do you think there is a single court anywhere who would convict you of theft? I let you in and told you help yourself. Yes, you took more than I expected, and certainly more than courtesy would allow. But in the end, I let you in and told you to go ahead and take beer.
I am not in anyway trying to excuse the person's behavior, which I find abhorrent. In fact, it's situations like this that lead me to primarily only playing with people I know irl. But to say that he's broken any law, other than those of common decency, seems inaccurate.
There's a slight flaw in your analogy, but I see your point. If I just took what you offered me, you would be right. But what if I went upstairs while you were gone and found your piggy bank and emptied it before I left? You gave me permission to stay in your house, so why shouldn't I look around? And is it my fault I found your piggy bank that easily? It doesn't work that way.
I cannot believe someone deliberately giving people permission to "use the guild bank as they please". A little sprinkling of common sense is enough to know that you should ask before taking anything of serious value that was not specifically meant for or belongs to you. The Tos specifically includes "general rules and etiquette" for a reason. Sure, a couple of gold pieces is fine. Same as a few beers would be. But actually cleaning out the fridge and taking your piggy bank as well, is definitely criminal and, according to the ToS, offensive conduct. Hard to prove and whatnot, but that changes nothing.
Except guild leaders can set permissions as to how much someone can and can't remove from the guild bank, so by definition, he couldn't have taken anything that he didn't have permission to take.
So if you said I could have a beer while you were gone, but the fridge also contains a 50yr old single malt, does that mean I can empty that single malt as well? I shouldn't think so.
Ack! Single-malt whiskey refrigerated??!!! What kind of a heathen do you think I am? Neat at room temperature, please.
LOL Agreed. I apologize. And I wouldn't drink it straight from the fridge even if it was there, but I'm sure you get my point xD
Yeah, I think we are in complete agreement in terms of the inappropriateness of the behavior, I just don't believe it was criminal. It comes down to defining "permission" I suppose. I'm taking a very literal, game mechanics definition of permission (i.e. if his guild settings allowed it, he was permitted) while you're looking at it in a broader sense of general expectations, societal norms, etc.
But now I really want a whiskey and it's a long time before I can go home and pour myself a glass of Balvenie. /sadface
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
So if you said I could have a beer while you were gone, but the fridge also contains a 50yr old single malt, does that mean I can empty that single malt as well? I shouldn't think so. How is taking a perfect enchant that's not yours any different? You can set the limit to a selected number of items, but you can't specify the items.
Yeah, you actually can, if you set different permissions for separate tabs and keep the items sorted accordingly. My bank allows new members to withdraw a few items per day from five of the bank tabs, but you need to be promoted twice to access any epic items at all, as long as everyone putting stuff in puts it in the correct places.
Nothing to be done for people who do have permissions to be able to withdraw from any tab, but you have more control over withdrawals than you seem to be thinking.
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited July 2014
. . . Even in my personal guilds (my characters only), the first rank cannot withdraw anything and the second one is limited to 10 items and 50 gold a day. This is so I do not have to worry, just in case I do invite someone to one of my personal guilds, whether by mistake or intent. Regular guilds should share such caution, even more so. Indeed.
PWE, has the answer to all these hacked/robbed account related issues at hand already. In their game "Perfect World" the user is able to enter a "storage password", which prevents eventual thieves from accessing the personal bank. I think, with a little tweak, or two, they could use a similar method for guildbanks in Neverwinter. I'd like to see said feature, also for personal storages, because everytime i log out, i could just put my entire equip/items in my bank. Then even IF the account gets accessed by a thief, all they could possibly do is look at a naked, itemless/equipless/goldless toon. For this, to work properly we have to be able to store our AD in our banks, though.
PWE, has the answer to all these hacked/robbed account related issues at hand already. In their game "Perfect World" the user is able to enter a "storage password", which prevents eventual thieves from accessing the personal bank.
Yeah, but if you give the password to somebody and they take more than you expected there's really not much you can complain about.
There may be no password in Neverwinter's guild bank but there is the ability to set daily withdrawal limits.
If you give them permission to withdraw everything and they do then you can argue it wasn't for you intended but at the end of the day they had permission to do so. You can always contact support and ask for them to do what they can but it is very hard to say the person shouldn't have taken the items because they had permission to.
one guild i was in had a leadership change. one of the chosen leaders who seemed like a stand up guy emptied the guild bank after two weeks. all that could be done was to report him.
he had the access. it was given to him.
he abused it.
did PWE do anything about it?
i honestly do not know. but it is at their sole discretion to do so. and it is a private matter between the abuser and PWE.
live and learn. some people are trustworthy and some aren't. but it is not PWE's responsibility to determine that. someone had to grant the access. someone had to trust the individual. the individual breached that trust.
it sucked. but we quickly refilled the guild bank and moved on. there's not much else you can do.
Yeah, but if you give the password to somebody and they take more than you expected there's really not much you can complain about.
There may be no password in Neverwinter's guild bank but there is the ability to set daily withdrawal limits.
If you give them permission to withdraw everything and they do then you can argue it wasn't for you intended but at the end of the day they had permission to do so. You can always contact support and ask for them to do what they can but it is very hard to say the person shouldn't have taken the items because they had permission to.
I know the guildbank - feature for almost 5 years, pal. Because it is a 1:1 copy of CO's and even in CO, i always thought that even with permission - rules, the system is too flawed. However, a password requirement could change it, this is a fact. And after all, it is the guild leader's choice who to trust and hand out said password, which would be better than having random officers with permissions.
its not random officers with permissions though. The guild leader had to set those permissions and decide who to give that increased access to.
The person who started the guild is equally as responsible for the missing items as the person who took them. He is the person who trusted the "theif" for whatever reason and gave him the neccessary access to do so.
As for the comments about the items were not his to take, can you tell me who exactly placed every single peice into your guild banks? I dont think the logs show more than 40 lines. If it has been more than a day than prove to me that a particular item belongs to a certain person. Even if it did why did he put it in the guild bank unless he wanted, or didn't mind, if someone else took it.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited July 2014
Uhhhrr... how is deciding who to promote to officer status much different than deciding who to give a password to?
As for the comments about the items were not his to take, can you tell me who exactly placed every single peice into your guild banks? I dont think the logs show more than 40 lines.
I'm not sure if these cut off after a certain number of records or after a period of elapsed time, but you can ask to view quite a bit more. It goes pretty far back depending on your rate of item turnover.
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited July 2014
If I told you you can help yourself to anything in the fridge, I have no right to complain if you take me up on that offer. At the very least, you should maintain at least one tab that ONLY the guild leader can access. Regardless, I'm sorry this person did that to you.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Comments
It's already comical enough to trust anyone over the Internet anyway, not to mention the suggestion you brought out.
I've actually had this happen with a fellow officer. Didn't lose a lot, but it was stressful until we got it sorted out.
Re: guild bank permissions
Very occasionally, funky things seem to happen with withdraw permissions, and low ranks end up with access to more than they should have. For the most part, they should be officer-controlled though, and you can fine-tune them with a high level of precision. If you're willing to keep your bank organized, you can set it up so that new members can withdraw enough from the bank for it to be useful for levelling, but still don't have access to anything truly valuable to liquidate. Every tab can have a different set of permissions.
I have always found it an interesting social phenomenon that everyone who asks me "how do I get promoted?" is obviously gunning for more withdraw permissions, whereas the people who earn their promotions unasked by participating in guildstuff typically donate far more than they take.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
It isn't in Neverwinter , anything that would be considered 'illegal' in a real world community is against the ToS for Neverwinter xD
ToS 15.1 User conduct -
http://www.arcgames.com/en/about/terms
As for the OP , he shouldn't give full rights to withdraw everything to anybody , everybody including officers should have a limit ,if they need more they can always ask.
Actually, I think in this case you are missing the point. He was given access to the guild bank specifically so that he could take things out. It's not like he was house-sitting and made off with someone else's stuff. He was given access so that he could take what he wanted/needed.
As an analogy, consider this. You stop by my house as I'm heading to the store. I say I'll be back, there's beer in the fridge -- help yourself. When I come back, you're gone and so is all the beer. Do you think there is a single court anywhere who would convict you of theft? I let you in and told you help yourself. Yes, you took more than I expected, and certainly more than courtesy would allow. But in the end, I let you in and told you to go ahead and take beer.
I am not in anyway trying to excuse the person's behavior, which I find abhorrent. In fact, it's situations like this that lead me to primarily only playing with people I know irl. But to say that he's broken any law, other than those of common decency, seems inaccurate.
Limit items per day, and keep an eye on the bank records.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Except guild leaders can set permissions as to how much someone can and can't remove from the guild bank, so by definition, he couldn't have taken anything that he didn't have permission to take.
Ack! Single-malt whiskey refrigerated??!!! What kind of a heathen do you think I am? Neat at room temperature, please.
Yeah, I think we are in complete agreement in terms of the inappropriateness of the behavior, I just don't believe it was criminal. It comes down to defining "permission" I suppose. I'm taking a very literal, game mechanics definition of permission (i.e. if his guild settings allowed it, he was permitted) while you're looking at it in a broader sense of general expectations, societal norms, etc.
But now I really want a whiskey and it's a long time before I can go home and pour myself a glass of Balvenie. /sadface
Yeah, you actually can, if you set different permissions for separate tabs and keep the items sorted accordingly. My bank allows new members to withdraw a few items per day from five of the bank tabs, but you need to be promoted twice to access any epic items at all, as long as everyone putting stuff in puts it in the correct places.
Nothing to be done for people who do have permissions to be able to withdraw from any tab, but you have more control over withdrawals than you seem to be thinking.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Yeah, but if you give the password to somebody and they take more than you expected there's really not much you can complain about.
There may be no password in Neverwinter's guild bank but there is the ability to set daily withdrawal limits.
If you give them permission to withdraw everything and they do then you can argue it wasn't for you intended but at the end of the day they had permission to do so. You can always contact support and ask for them to do what they can but it is very hard to say the person shouldn't have taken the items because they had permission to.
one guild i was in had a leadership change. one of the chosen leaders who seemed like a stand up guy emptied the guild bank after two weeks. all that could be done was to report him.
he had the access. it was given to him.
he abused it.
did PWE do anything about it?
i honestly do not know. but it is at their sole discretion to do so. and it is a private matter between the abuser and PWE.
live and learn. some people are trustworthy and some aren't. but it is not PWE's responsibility to determine that. someone had to grant the access. someone had to trust the individual. the individual breached that trust.
it sucked. but we quickly refilled the guild bank and moved on. there's not much else you can do.
I know the guildbank - feature for almost 5 years, pal. Because it is a 1:1 copy of CO's and even in CO, i always thought that even with permission - rules, the system is too flawed. However, a password requirement could change it, this is a fact. And after all, it is the guild leader's choice who to trust and hand out said password, which would be better than having random officers with permissions.
The person who started the guild is equally as responsible for the missing items as the person who took them. He is the person who trusted the "theif" for whatever reason and gave him the neccessary access to do so.
As for the comments about the items were not his to take, can you tell me who exactly placed every single peice into your guild banks? I dont think the logs show more than 40 lines. If it has been more than a day than prove to me that a particular item belongs to a certain person. Even if it did why did he put it in the guild bank unless he wanted, or didn't mind, if someone else took it.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I'm not sure if these cut off after a certain number of records or after a period of elapsed time, but you can ask to view quite a bit more. It goes pretty far back depending on your rate of item turnover.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Precisely:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?709011-guild-bank-thieving&p=8418791&viewfull=1#post8418791