either reduce the size or duration of thorn ward or give some other class an ability to counter the effects as it stands if the other team has rangers and you dont you lose and most camp as soon as they see rangers on the other team
either reduce the size or duration of thorn ward or give some other class an ability to counter the effects as it stands if the other team has rangers and you dont you lose and most camp as soon as they see rangers on the other team
Some other class already have that ability called perma hide tr:s.
Its no different but less good then perma tr:s because they dont die, they never die if they dont want to...
2 that knows what they are doing and is geared simular to the hr will take him out pretty fast and can cap the node but if you face perma tr that is not the case.
CW -gwf or 2 gwf will make the process short with any but the absolute elite hrs and even they have to run...
DC another class that can counter hr as full survival pvp build dont have the dam to take them down if simular gear/skill..
I now that we are going lets face it most gwfs will chase down all but the few elite hrs also.
Now AFTER MODULE 4 WE HAVE NO CLUE AS THE CHANGES ARENT COMPLEATED YET so how about hold off on the NERF THIS NERF THAT until we at least are getting near what will eventually be the final change mkay ..................
this, guys, is what i wanted to prove. Is really funny to see how you can come to GWF thread and trashtalk about our class but no other classes can come here to trashtalk about yours... be happy!!!!.
First of all I have a 17k gwf and played as main for over 8 months so its not YOUR class is mine also and second plz link the thread where i trash talk gwfs.
The differance is that I play both classes and know what am talking about and you are clueless and just yapping around about stuff that is either totally of the point or pure gibberish ....
So yea be happy all you want but please try to figure out what is up and what is down before you yap more.
Some other class already have that ability called perma hide tr:s.
Its no different but less good then perma tr:s because they dont die, they never die if they dont want to...
2 that knows what they are doing and is geared simular to the hr will take him out pretty fast and can cap the node but if you face perma tr that is not the case.
CW -gwf or 2 gwf will make the process short with any but the absolute elite hrs and even they have to run...
DC another class that can counter hr as full survival pvp build dont have the dam to take them down if simular gear/skill..
I now that we are going lets face it most gwfs will chase down all but the few elite hrs also.
Now AFTER MODULE 4 WE HAVE NO CLUE AS THE CHANGES ARENT COMPLEATED YET so how about hold off on the NERF THIS NERF THAT until we at least are getting near what will eventually be the final change mkay ..................
For the record I have fought a few hrs mostly without using thorn ward so far on the test server. The one I did fight on the test server used thorn ward hybrid spec'd this is not even a fight for the hr. All he/she did was shift, apply dots and drop thorn ward a very simple rotation followed by using the melee version of thorn ward and shifting around. And for me only able to land my encounters once he then heals back from half hp to full in a few seconds and then I die shortly afterwards. Also currently pvp is rather impractical as there are a lot of fps issues with powers and some not even showing on screen(thorn ward red aoe was not visible just the glowing center).
Yes I have played HR to lvl 60 full pvp gear and good items. Also I was again reply to the people complaining about the nerf because atm HR is way overpowered and you may like being able to win a 5v1 but its not fun for the other 5 players so a little nerf was needed and you will still be better than most classes in mod 4 anyway just hopefully not a god class anymore.
HR was never a 'god class' except for maybe a handful of fully BiS elite level players. In the PuG matches that make up the vast majority of PvP in this game the HR was strong but still not as good as GWF and arguably Perma TR. I've never seen an HR win 5v1 and very much doubt it's possible unless the HR is BiS and the other 5 are fresh 60s wearing greens and with no clue how to play their classes. Or stooges set up specifically to make the HR look OP.
Also HR suffers from the same problem as a Perma TR. Too many people with no clue how the class works or how to counter them.
and there is my question- How can i fight against HR on Domination match if i even can't stay on point becouse for me it is quick death, anyway CW vs HR it is always CW (maby not always quick) Death.- how can CW help his team against HR? This is a very biased game and favorite is 1- HR. Where is balance?
A good CW with the proper PvP build can easily beat an HR without having to go anywhere near Thorn Ward. Dead HRs don't contest nodes.
Combat tree seems awful even for loyal combat hr Crush i m still looking for builds on preview but really the combat tree is just a tanky derp going around...it's not funny at all to play, there is no reason to reach the capstone: cooldown removed or not i dont have spammable melee encounters so it doesnt matter if is 5 sec or 0 seconds the dps doesnt change.
The piercing damage is awful...it should pierce..even with the buff they will be 100 damages.
The T1 and T2 feats are 10 points wasted.
Really i see no reason at all to pick this tree if not for wild medicine. But probably who is really in love with this feat will just go 15 archery-15 combat.
Actually if this was meant to allocate the hr playerbase between archery combat and trapper...well its a fail.
Trapper feels good only for solo the content and switching instances but it's nothing compared to the live hybrid build.
i see too many other class in this thread they are trying so hard to tailor hr to fit their tastes.
-look at the dungeons, hr's alway in third place with big dps gap (cw >.. gwf > .......... hr) wait a sec! is it same class called "god" ??
-this game not only about pvp... this is DUNGEONS and Dragons.
-imho in this game there is no op class, if you have equal conditions with your opponent, only one thing remains "your play style" if you are no successful at that, please do not blame anyone or any class.
Combat should feel tanky though.. or even evade'ish. You need to be able to sit there and do melee damage and take hits. Combat spec needs a boost, its not really going in the right direction. Even for PVE it doesnt feel great because i dont have the ae with lifesteal to keep me alive like a cw.
I dont think people are necessarily trying to fit their playstyle, but thats what they have experience with. They changed these feats to make each path unique, which is great and appreciated. I feel like the old combat tree was better and just needed to be buffed. How it is now, most pvp'rs will go full hybrid and pve will go archery. So we have the same problem we had before.
Actually before healing depression/tenacity each tree was cool and you could even pvp with nature. We want to have usable variety and right now the process already looks to repeat.
Combat should feel tanky though.. or even evade'ish. You need to be able to sit there and do melee damage and take hits. Combat spec needs a boost, its not really going in the right direction. Even for PVE it doesnt feel great because i dont have the ae with lifesteal to keep me alive like a cw.
I dont think people are necessarily trying to fit their playstyle, but thats what they have experience with. They changed these feats to make each path unique, which is great and appreciated. I feel like the old combat tree was better and just needed to be buffed. How it is now, most pvp'rs will go full hybrid and pve will go archery. So we have the same problem we had before.
Actually before healing depression/tenacity each tree was cool and you could even pvp with nature. We want to have usable variety and right now the process already looks to repeat.
I would like to see how the changes that are landing this week shake out before we make any more changes to the Combat HR. With the buffed piercing damage (which is unresistable bonus damage) and the easier to use cadence of Blade Hurricane it should be far easier to cause bursts of damage. Keep in mind that while Combat HR is a DPS build, it is a lower DPS than Archery because it has far more survivability options available.
As far as Blade Hurricane, this should make up a solid chunk of your damage, so I can absolutely see buffing it even more. The intended combat cadence is supposed to feel fluid, and without the CD it does feel much easier to weave Encounter -> Rapid Strike (or other at will). Remember that the Ranger is far more single target focused. Blade Hurricane will synergize best with Rapid Strike, Split Strike, and Clear the Ground which provide all of their damage in a single hit (which is what triggers Flurry).
because it has far more survivability options available
The only survivability option melee tree provides is Wild Medicine. Life Steal feat lasts to little and melee HR has no burst nor any sustained damage to gain HP back. Deflect feat is very weak, it gives 5% more deflect rating, which is wrong, it should give deflect chance. I'd suggest to rework Life Steal feats into something else, Wild Medicine is quite enough in terms of healing.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
while i do agree about what you say, i would like to do a bit more math.
If blade hurricane is proc'd by melee encounters i can proc it about 3 times every 10 sec. so we are talking about a cap stone that every 10 seconds gives a increased dps boost of about 6 at will hits.
Dunno we really need to test things better but i m quite sure a simple 5% more damages would have been a better capstone.
And on top of that the first 10 feats points are bad...really bad..maybe the trickster scoundrel ones (T1 and T2 all bugged and dont working) are the only that can beat them.
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and let you guys know of another change we are making. While we like faster cooldowns on ranged players, multiple thorn wards active at once is too brutal for spatial control so we are making the following change
Thorn Ward: Only 1 Thorn Ward may be active at a time. Casting the power again will replace the currently active Thorn Ward.
This change should not affect the majority of players and will prevent some abuse cases.
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and let you guys know of another change we are making. While we like faster cooldowns on ranged players, multiple thorn wards active at once is too brutal for spatial control so we are making the following change
Thorn Ward: Only 1 Thorn Ward may be active at a time. Casting the power again will replace the currently active Thorn Ward.
This change should not affect the majority of players and will prevent some abuse cases.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
This change should be hitting sometime next week.
Thx. Very much needed. But if they recast it, the uptime will be unlimited? They can just recast it on a point over and over?
While I totally agree with Thorn Ward change I have to say that Rayrdan is right.
Right now we have a;
archery path that seem to work in pve but not in pvp.
Meele path that are almost useless in pve and can only survive in pvp as it just lacks dam in burst as well as sustained
Trapper path that is fun for soloing but with such low dam its absolutly useless in both pvp and pve groupwise.
There is a dilemma here when it comes to how to make all paths valid in both pve and pvp.
If you just give one path dam enough to be of use in pve thats what you have to pick over anything else to get geared up.
If you give to much dam together with high survivability there is no reason to play anything else then meele.
Trapper should be something between the archer and meele when it comes to dam and survivability as it has some cc.
Right now trapper dont have any surviviability no cc escape and pittyful cc in pvp deacent in pve when soloing but lacking in group setting.
My suggestion is to at least add some cc to archery so they have a chanse to defend themself but leaving them otherwise pretty much vulnerable.
Add some burst dam to melee path with somewhat higher sustained dam or some group buffs that actually makes a point having them in group. As it is now they are more a hinderance then help in pve group setting.
Increase the dam overall in Trapper path with some more aoe dam (letting them have an increased area of effect and duration for Rain of Arrows would be an exampel).
You changed same skills between gwfs and gfs I see no reason why you couldent do so even within some class so that if you pick different paths they can work a bit different like above example with Rain of Arrows.
I would like to see how the changes that are landing this week shake out before we make any more changes to the Combat HR. With the buffed piercing damage (which is unresistable bonus damage) and the easier to use cadence of Blade Hurricane it should be far easier to cause bursts of damage. Keep in mind that while Combat HR is a DPS build, it is a lower DPS than Archery because it has far more survivability options available.
As far as Blade Hurricane, this should make up a solid chunk of your damage, so I can absolutely see buffing it even more. The intended combat cadence is supposed to feel fluid, and without the CD it does feel much easier to weave Encounter -> Rapid Strike (or other at will). Remember that the Ranger is far more single target focused. Blade Hurricane will synergize best with Rapid Strike, Split Strike, and Clear the Ground which provide all of their damage in a single hit (which is what triggers Flurry).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
You know, I dont play a HR I just dabble in one. So forgive me if this seems ignorant or out of place.
When playing my friends HR I noticed that "Aspect of the Lone Wolf" is very very good. It gives a LARGE pool of "Base DR" that diminishes by each enemy within a certain range. To me, this seems rather counter-intuative and maybe the issue people are having for PVP balance as well as PVE.
What I mean is this:
In PVE a melee HR is almost always surrounded by ALOT of NPCs, thus making him not very tanky - even with this feat. Not able to withstand damage.
In PVP this feat is granting ALOT of DR since its much less common to have more than 1-2 enemies within that range.
This is causing a discrepancy, In PVP Hunter Rangers are VERY tanky - just as much as Fighter classes, where as in PVE they cant take enough hits.
Potential Solution: Reverse the benefits so that, the BASE DR granted is maybe 5% and increases based on each Enemy within <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> radius. Increased levels can INCREASE that radius instead of decrease the radius....
Why Would this Work? Well POTENTIALLY it will work because it makes combat HRs more viable in PVE when they are surrounded by more mobs - which they need however LESS viable as a 1v1 "tank" in PVP - which right now they are #1 I dont know if Combat HRs use this in PVE, probably because its not that great, but I am fairly certain HRs use this ability in PVP for node holding....
I am willing to admit I am wrong here, its just an outsiders perspective...
Note on Piercing Blade.
I saw Crysh update on making it 20% top. But it still would be weak. I have HR in full profound with lvl 8 black enchantments. so around around 5k power. it usually makes around 1200-1500 per hit with rapid strike. so top Piercing would give 20% ~ 300 more. Good thing it is not deflected or something but its on hit damage.
I would like to see how the changes that are landing this week shake out before we make any more changes to the Combat HR. With the buffed piercing damage (which is unresistable bonus damage) and the easier to use cadence of Blade Hurricane it should be far easier to cause bursts of damage. Keep in mind that while Combat HR is a DPS build, it is a lower DPS than Archery because it has far more survivability options available.
As far as Blade Hurricane, this should make up a solid chunk of your damage, so I can absolutely see buffing it even more. T
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I understand desire to make combat HR high dps. But we lost all our controls due to focus on mostly melee. Look at Clear the Ground - is still weak and heavily depends on how close HR is to target. like you have to be almost on target to get if fully and it is still weaker that Split Strike. Another note that you can get around 4-5 up close enemies around you - so only 5 enemies with 100% full hit. others do get all week damage. so even assume we get 100% damage with CTG - it will be less then 1500 - more around 800 + 20% < 1000 per hit. and you are stuck very close to target - no change to dodge (4-5 around us) no space to move.
Have you considered to make this damage more but with a tick? like 10% instead of 20% but over 3-5 seconds?
Another thought is about pvp and anti tanks stuff- both hr, gwf, cw,gf with high regeneration. How about regeneration depression on hit? so that combat hr focused on damage to make them valuable would have something to fight with?
After my tests i do see one preferred path for combat hrs - current tank hr with pathfinders will take combat - get even more regen with wild med, synergy with pathfinder action - and you have almost perfect one-point-stand hr.
It will be very tricky - as for HR stormwarden -to fight with thoose. Its not easy now too. But it is possible.
Id really like to see HR combat as high dps but it looks like it will be more tanky and so more borring instead.
hurrican blade should work this way: every tome you deflect an attack you reflect 4 times your weapon damage as piercing damage no internal cooldown involved.
Then we rework the t2 about deflect rating in 10 per cent more crit and we are set. Archery has way too good feat to choose the t2 combat.a
Please read this is the best advice i gave ever
Hey all, I wanted to drop in and let you guys know of another change we are making. While we like faster cooldowns on ranged players, multiple thorn wards active at once is too brutal for spatial control so we are making the following change
Thorn Ward: Only 1 Thorn Ward may be active at a time. Casting the power again will replace the currently active Thorn Ward.
This change should not affect the majority of players and will prevent some abuse cases.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
This change should be hitting sometime next week.
This is one of the better changes. Good news indeed.
Feedback: HR, Changes to Constricting Arrow and alternative CC options
Constricting Arrow: This power is now an Area of Effect Strong Grasping Roots apply instead of a series of stuns.
Whilst this is a very creative change I believe this power will only be viable for the Trapper path. Constricting Arrow as it works on live is the only tactical and preemptive CC a fellow HR has against other HR's or the Control Wizard.
If you PVP against an HR as another HR or a CW you will more than likely see this encounter get unleashed first. This encounter more often than not determines the outcome of this type of encounter. Whilst it will not save you from being controlled, it will save you from the spike damage that follows. Changing this skill will synergize beautifully with the Trapper path but in turn leave the encounter less than useful for the Combat and Archer HR.
I have been thinking about how to implement this better and have really had a reality shock about how hard it is to do this fairly and smartly.
My suggestions would be as follows,
1. Leave Constricting Arrow working as it does on live as of now and add your new changes to Binding Arrow instead.
2. Change this skill to an attack that restricts an enemy from attacking. 5 seconds in PVE and Half VS Players
3. Leave everything as it is but increase the daze from Disruptive Shot
I believe that any of these changes will still give all HR paths a viable and tactical form of CC outside of being pure Trapper.
Feedback: Wilds Medicine
This skill is already causing so much controversy given that the current PVP set has not been WAI since its implementation. The heal on deflect is unquantifiable and leads to a lot of confusion. Please consider changing this to a fixed healing bonus, for example 10%, 20%, 30%, incoming healing bonus or any other type of healing others more creative than I can imagine.
Thank you and please consider my feedback.
0
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited July 2014
This will probably be a little long but hopefully worthwhile. Be aware that this feedback is mainly focused on PvE as I rarely PvP.
I spent quite some time testing the HR in the last weeks. Trying to be as comprehensive as possible I went through the three feat trees and tested each of them in Icewind Dale daily quests and in the most difficult dungeons (mostly Never, Malabog and Valindra).
Gear: Royal Guard + Dead Dragon weapons + Hrimnir Set (my standard PvE set-up on live) + Black Ice Ioun Stone
Enchantments are rank 8 on defensive slots, mix of 7 and 8 on offensive ones, two rank 9 stones on the offensive slot of the Ioun stone and a rank 10 eldritch in the defensive slot. Greater Plaguefire on Weapon and Lesser Soulforged on the armor.
GS is 16,6k (excluding the Ioun).
Feedback:
Archery: as this is mostly a DPS tree I focused on checking DPS and survivability. As far as I can see I deal more or less the same damage of a CW with a similar GS (usually a little bit more) in most dungeons as long as the party has some way to concentrate enemies in small areas (in Mod 3 a CW outdamages me easily by 20% with my current Pathfinder build). This is with the Royal Guard Armor, the Black Ice falls about 10-15% behind.
Rain of Arrows is still by far the best DPS skill so grouping enemies is essential. If enemies can run or teleport around the battlefield easily then DPS drops sensibly (Epic Dread Vault with all the teleporting illithids is quite difficult in that sense). Stormwarden works better than Pathfinder in that situation due to the large area of Split the Sky but the difference is not huge. By the way the fact that you cannot summon more than one Thorn Ward would be an issue in this kind of dungeons as TW helps a lot in dealing consistent damage when enemies are sparse. With the Royal Guard Armor I usually keep two TW up at any time and sometimes even three. My suggestion would be to implement the “only-one TW at a time” policy only when flagged for PVP.
Honestly I don´t see any reason for a group to take an Archer HR in place of a CW right now as DPS is similar and the CW offers more control (even if not as much as before). The lack of control could also be an issue as the Archer will tend to attract quite some aggro (I use the Owl as an active companion and don´t suffer too much on that side but without that the situation is more difficult).
When it comes to taking down Valindra at the final Malabog´s Castle fight and after the final summoning at VT it seems to me that the M4 Archer is contributing more in taking her down fast than the M3 counterpart.
Survivability is in line with my current Mod3 Ranger. With 1,4k lifesteal if you can keep Rain of Arrows on the head of something, the only real risk is been one-shotted or been ganged by heavy-hitting mobs (goblins at Castle Never are the main culprit here). That´s why the lack of control is an issue, as Rain of Arrows is a static effect with a limited area and keeping enemies under it can be difficult. As in Mod3 Pathfinder fares better than Stormwarden due to Cruel Recovery.
Suggestions: I don´t think that adding control to the Archery build would make sense as that is the field of the Trapper. My suggestion would be to apply the Prey bonus automatically whenever hitting a target which is prone, stunned or dazed. In this way PvP 1:1 would not really be influenced as the ranger has no similar effects except for Bear Trap, which is extremely difficulty to apply and short-lived, cooperation in PvP would be more effective, and control-heavy parties will be looking for Archer HRs to faster take down enemies.
Combat: quite difficult to do an evaluation here. I don´t really like the feeling. Survivability is good but DPS is lacking in PvE. Sometimes I feel I´m hitting enemies with the blunt head of a stick. Fox Shift is packing quite some punch but the rest is lackluster compared to what the Archer can do.
Suggestion: I think that the best thing to do would be to look into the base damage of several melee powers (this will help the Trapper too).The fact that no control is available makes DPS quite important here.
Trapper: here I had the most fun. Control in PvE is good especially if using both Constricting Arrow and Hindering Strike. DPS is probably a little bit low but honestly I would focus on control for this feat tree as DPS is (or should be) covered by the first two. I like the new Aspect of the Serpent, much closer to the actual flow of battle, good job on that.
Suggestions: most Trappers will run with Constricting/Hindering/Rain of Arrows.
Increase the damage of Steel Breeze (it is a really gentle breeze right now), rework Rain of Swords to work on a semicircular area in front of you instead of a cone (that would help all rangers as it feels more what a “swords” power should do) and maybe raise damage a little bit there too.
Last suggestion is about Hindering Shot. Hitting a monster (so no other PCs) currently subject to Thorned Roots immediately deals the remaining roots damage, ends the roots effect and prones the target. If the target is CC immune extra damage is dealt.
This will turn the trapper in a targeted CC-machine and will start to make it a viable alternative to having a CW (or an extra CW in a party).
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
0
matii1509Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Feedback: Combat I made some test in PvE to see how it looks. It was PvE so I choosed Stormwarden, 15k HR with Black Ice set. In overall combat is not impressing.
First I went to IWD and did some HE, my dmg was weak. Most dmg was from Split the sky which is range encounter(!).
Next I fight with Charthraxis. This boss has adds so I could use aoe. Most outgoing damage was from range encounters (split the sky, rain of arrows). Piercing Blade (feat) done just 4% of total damage. In this fight even DC did 50% more dmg than me, TR and GWF did 2x more dmg than me.
Last fight was with Merothrax. This boss has not adds. Like it was before most outgoing damage was from range encounters (rain of arrows, thorn ward). This time TR deal 20% more dmg than me (selfsame TR), SW deal 15% more (with Charthraxis he did 50% less then me).
Thank you for the continued feedback everyone! Combat Rangers continue to underperform where we want them to be so we are buffing two of their key damage dealing feats so that they can make up a far more substantive portion of your damage.
Hunter Ranger: Combat: Piercing Blade: Now deals an additional 8/16/24/32/40% damage as Piercing Damage (up from 4/8/12/16/20%)
Hunter Ranger: Combat: Blade Hurricane: Your Flurry empowered at wills now strike 2 additional times at 65% bonus damage (up from 5% bonus damage).
Hunter Ranger: Combat: Blade Hurricane: Flurry strikes can now properly activate Piercing Blade.
We want combat to feel like a high risk damage dealer who is exposed to danger but deals strong burst, which is often facilitated by strong use of the capstone feat Blade Hurricane.
These changes should hit late this week or early next week, barring anything urgent
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
EDIT: Additional Change! Aspect of the Lone Wolf has been problematic for a while now because it grants a lot of Damage resistance in the situation where it will always be optimal in PVP and PVE, while providing very little downside in situations where it might be more valuable. It was also letting Hunter Rangers reach the same damage resistance values as heavily geared Fighters, and this was just too strong.
Hunter Ranger: Aspect of the Lone Wolf: *REWORK* Gain 2% bonus deflect chance for each enemy within 15' of you. Maximum bonus 10%. Ranking this class feature up increases the radius of the effect by 5'.
0
nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
With a proper defensive (deflect) build, Combat isn't really high risk at all though (especially when considering lifesteal added in, which becomes even more relevant with the buffs to damage)
But if it was the ONLY thing allowing archers to survive that is a problem that needs to be solved a little more broadly than having a single class feature be the only way to not faceplant.
NO Crush it was Consticted Arrow + healing proc from armor that helped them to survive now both of them gone when it comes to adding survivability.
Crush you must realize that HR have almost no place in pve so many play them mostly in pvp. What you do to other classes correlate directly toward what you do with Hrs. I myself have a gf and a gwf beside my HR and i can tell you that they changes you made so far is practically annihilating HRs from being able to contest in pvp.
You try to buff melee part but you nerfed dam so hard that when you say you *increase the dam with Hunter Ranger: Combat: Piercing Blade: Now deals an additional 8/16/24/32/40% damage as Piercing Damage (up from 4/8/12/16/20%) its base is so low it will hardly matter.
At the same time you removed contricting arrow as a cc (1 sec root-realy ?) removed 10% deflection no anti cc and now nerfed aspect of the lone wolf to the ground.
This together with that gwf (the mostly played class in pvp no contest) now can sprint 40-55% longer with full cc immunity and the buff to cws contol mechanic(not a bad thing in itselfs for sure) the new Warlock class(whish i played to lvl 60) and the buff to gfs(badly needed) you will be in for a world of hurt if you play a meele based HR ,,,, to play a archer feated Hr in pvp will be pure suicide as it is now.
I have been playing pvp games for over 15 years now and I dont think I ever experianced this drastic changing of classes in any of them. Its a good thing you are active enough to change things on a regular bases but sometimes it feels more like your pushing random buttoms and hope that something good comes out.
Lets take a look at the argument
my natural 1~BiS playthrough I almost never took it off my bar because it was so good, this is a huge warning flag
that means that almost all classes has to to have those class features reworked. All classes has at least one that never comes off one for pve and one for pvp.
Balance different classes between pve and pvp isent easy for sure but what you are doing to the HR class right now is forcing everybody that want to pve into the archery path and all thatwant to pvp to the meele path and at the same time nerfing about everything that made HR valid in pvp while buffing other classes(yea gwf will dissagree but I dont think they will be less good in pvp rather the opposite).
You need to adress this before the module 4 go live or the Hrs will vanish into the woods and fade as memory:
Archery needs tools to survive in pvp either cc or anti cc but as it is now they are down as soon as the are cced(and for the love of god no more nerf to dam)
Meele need burst dam improvement as they are never going to be used in dungeons and some way to cc at least one opponent
Trapper need a serious dam boost and some anti cc (tbh let consticted arrow stay for archer and trapper would go a long way).
I test further ofc but if this stands I move on the the EBIL EBIL warlock who is rather fun to play as of now ).
0
degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
EDIT: Additional Change! Aspect of the Lone Wolf has been problematic for a while now because it grants a lot of Damage resistance in the situation where it will always be optimal in PVP and PVE, while providing very little downside in situations where it might be more valuable. It was also letting Hunter Rangers reach the same damage resistance values as heavily geared Fighters, and this was just too strong.
Hunter Ranger: Aspect of the Lone Wolf: *REWORK* Gain 2% bonus deflect chance for each enemy within 15' of you. Maximum bonus 10%. Ranking this class feature up increases the radius of the effect by 5'.
Ouch. AotLW was our main DR outside of Tenacity. HRs don't have stealth or any type of CC immunity like Unstoppable or ITC. Our five "dodges" often don't work (I can't count the number of times I've dodged and still got hit by Take Down, EF, Flourish, etc.). You're going to end up with some very squishy HRs. Wilds Medicine may be our only fallback.
Comments
Some other class already have that ability called perma hide tr:s.
Its no different but less good then perma tr:s because they dont die, they never die if they dont want to...
2 that knows what they are doing and is geared simular to the hr will take him out pretty fast and can cap the node but if you face perma tr that is not the case.
CW -gwf or 2 gwf will make the process short with any but the absolute elite hrs and even they have to run...
DC another class that can counter hr as full survival pvp build dont have the dam to take them down if simular gear/skill..
I now that we are going lets face it most gwfs will chase down all but the few elite hrs also.
Now AFTER MODULE 4 WE HAVE NO CLUE AS THE CHANGES ARENT COMPLEATED YET so how about hold off on the NERF THIS NERF THAT until we at least are getting near what will eventually be the final change mkay ..................
First of all I have a 17k gwf and played as main for over 8 months so its not YOUR class is mine also and second plz link the thread where i trash talk gwfs.
The differance is that I play both classes and know what am talking about and you are clueless and just yapping around about stuff that is either totally of the point or pure gibberish ....
So yea be happy all you want but please try to figure out what is up and what is down before you yap more.
For the record I have fought a few hrs mostly without using thorn ward so far on the test server. The one I did fight on the test server used thorn ward hybrid spec'd this is not even a fight for the hr. All he/she did was shift, apply dots and drop thorn ward a very simple rotation followed by using the melee version of thorn ward and shifting around. And for me only able to land my encounters once he then heals back from half hp to full in a few seconds and then I die shortly afterwards. Also currently pvp is rather impractical as there are a lot of fps issues with powers and some not even showing on screen(thorn ward red aoe was not visible just the glowing center).
Also HR suffers from the same problem as a Perma TR. Too many people with no clue how the class works or how to counter them.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Crush i m still looking for builds on preview but really the combat tree is just a tanky derp going around...it's not funny at all to play, there is no reason to reach the capstone: cooldown removed or not i dont have spammable melee encounters so it doesnt matter if is 5 sec or 0 seconds the dps doesnt change.
The piercing damage is awful...it should pierce..even with the buff they will be 100 damages.
The T1 and T2 feats are 10 points wasted.
Really i see no reason at all to pick this tree if not for wild medicine. But probably who is really in love with this feat will just go 15 archery-15 combat.
Actually if this was meant to allocate the hr playerbase between archery combat and trapper...well its a fail.
Trapper feels good only for solo the content and switching instances but it's nothing compared to the live hybrid build.
-look at the dungeons, hr's alway in third place with big dps gap (cw >.. gwf > .......... hr) wait a sec! is it same class called "god" ??
-this game not only about pvp... this is DUNGEONS and Dragons.
-imho in this game there is no op class, if you have equal conditions with your opponent, only one thing remains "your play style" if you are no successful at that, please do not blame anyone or any class.
I dont think people are necessarily trying to fit their playstyle, but thats what they have experience with. They changed these feats to make each path unique, which is great and appreciated. I feel like the old combat tree was better and just needed to be buffed. How it is now, most pvp'rs will go full hybrid and pve will go archery. So we have the same problem we had before.
Actually before healing depression/tenacity each tree was cool and you could even pvp with nature. We want to have usable variety and right now the process already looks to repeat.
I would like to see how the changes that are landing this week shake out before we make any more changes to the Combat HR. With the buffed piercing damage (which is unresistable bonus damage) and the easier to use cadence of Blade Hurricane it should be far easier to cause bursts of damage. Keep in mind that while Combat HR is a DPS build, it is a lower DPS than Archery because it has far more survivability options available.
As far as Blade Hurricane, this should make up a solid chunk of your damage, so I can absolutely see buffing it even more. The intended combat cadence is supposed to feel fluid, and without the CD it does feel much easier to weave Encounter -> Rapid Strike (or other at will). Remember that the Ranger is far more single target focused. Blade Hurricane will synergize best with Rapid Strike, Split Strike, and Clear the Ground which provide all of their damage in a single hit (which is what triggers Flurry).
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
The only survivability option melee tree provides is Wild Medicine. Life Steal feat lasts to little and melee HR has no burst nor any sustained damage to gain HP back. Deflect feat is very weak, it gives 5% more deflect rating, which is wrong, it should give deflect chance. I'd suggest to rework Life Steal feats into something else, Wild Medicine is quite enough in terms of healing.
If blade hurricane is proc'd by melee encounters i can proc it about 3 times every 10 sec. so we are talking about a cap stone that every 10 seconds gives a increased dps boost of about 6 at will hits.
Dunno we really need to test things better but i m quite sure a simple 5% more damages would have been a better capstone.
And on top of that the first 10 feats points are bad...really bad..maybe the trickster scoundrel ones (T1 and T2 all bugged and dont working) are the only that can beat them.
Thorn Ward: Only 1 Thorn Ward may be active at a time. Casting the power again will replace the currently active Thorn Ward.
This change should not affect the majority of players and will prevent some abuse cases.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
This change should be hitting sometime next week.
Thx. Very much needed. But if they recast it, the uptime will be unlimited? They can just recast it on a point over and over?
Right now we have a;
archery path that seem to work in pve but not in pvp.
Meele path that are almost useless in pve and can only survive in pvp as it just lacks dam in burst as well as sustained
Trapper path that is fun for soloing but with such low dam its absolutly useless in both pvp and pve groupwise.
There is a dilemma here when it comes to how to make all paths valid in both pve and pvp.
If you just give one path dam enough to be of use in pve thats what you have to pick over anything else to get geared up.
If you give to much dam together with high survivability there is no reason to play anything else then meele.
Trapper should be something between the archer and meele when it comes to dam and survivability as it has some cc.
Right now trapper dont have any surviviability no cc escape and pittyful cc in pvp deacent in pve when soloing but lacking in group setting.
My suggestion is to at least add some cc to archery so they have a chanse to defend themself but leaving them otherwise pretty much vulnerable.
Add some burst dam to melee path with somewhat higher sustained dam or some group buffs that actually makes a point having them in group. As it is now they are more a hinderance then help in pve group setting.
Increase the dam overall in Trapper path with some more aoe dam (letting them have an increased area of effect and duration for Rain of Arrows would be an exampel).
You changed same skills between gwfs and gfs I see no reason why you couldent do so even within some class so that if you pick different paths they can work a bit different like above example with Rain of Arrows.
You know, I dont play a HR I just dabble in one. So forgive me if this seems ignorant or out of place.
When playing my friends HR I noticed that "Aspect of the Lone Wolf" is very very good. It gives a LARGE pool of "Base DR" that diminishes by each enemy within a certain range. To me, this seems rather counter-intuative and maybe the issue people are having for PVP balance as well as PVE.
What I mean is this:
In PVE a melee HR is almost always surrounded by ALOT of NPCs, thus making him not very tanky - even with this feat. Not able to withstand damage.
In PVP this feat is granting ALOT of DR since its much less common to have more than 1-2 enemies within that range.
This is causing a discrepancy, In PVP Hunter Rangers are VERY tanky - just as much as Fighter classes, where as in PVE they cant take enough hits.
Potential Solution: Reverse the benefits so that, the BASE DR granted is maybe 5% and increases based on each Enemy within <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> radius. Increased levels can INCREASE that radius instead of decrease the radius....
Why Would this Work? Well POTENTIALLY it will work because it makes combat HRs more viable in PVE when they are surrounded by more mobs - which they need however LESS viable as a 1v1 "tank" in PVP - which right now they are #1 I dont know if Combat HRs use this in PVE, probably because its not that great, but I am fairly certain HRs use this ability in PVP for node holding....
I am willing to admit I am wrong here, its just an outsiders perspective...
I saw Crysh update on making it 20% top. But it still would be weak. I have HR in full profound with lvl 8 black enchantments. so around around 5k power. it usually makes around 1200-1500 per hit with rapid strike. so top Piercing would give 20% ~ 300 more. Good thing it is not deflected or something but its on hit damage.
I understand desire to make combat HR high dps. But we lost all our controls due to focus on mostly melee. Look at Clear the Ground - is still weak and heavily depends on how close HR is to target. like you have to be almost on target to get if fully and it is still weaker that Split Strike. Another note that you can get around 4-5 up close enemies around you - so only 5 enemies with 100% full hit. others do get all week damage. so even assume we get 100% damage with CTG - it will be less then 1500 - more around 800 + 20% < 1000 per hit. and you are stuck very close to target - no change to dodge (4-5 around us) no space to move.
Have you considered to make this damage more but with a tick? like 10% instead of 20% but over 3-5 seconds?
Another thought is about pvp and anti tanks stuff- both hr, gwf, cw,gf with high regeneration. How about regeneration depression on hit? so that combat hr focused on damage to make them valuable would have something to fight with?
After my tests i do see one preferred path for combat hrs - current tank hr with pathfinders will take combat - get even more regen with wild med, synergy with pathfinder action - and you have almost perfect one-point-stand hr.
It will be very tricky - as for HR stormwarden -to fight with thoose. Its not easy now too. But it is possible.
Id really like to see HR combat as high dps but it looks like it will be more tanky and so more borring instead.
Then we rework the t2 about deflect rating in 10 per cent more crit and we are set. Archery has way too good feat to choose the t2 combat.a
Please read this is the best advice i gave ever
This is one of the better changes. Good news indeed.
Constricting Arrow: This power is now an Area of Effect Strong Grasping Roots apply instead of a series of stuns.
Whilst this is a very creative change I believe this power will only be viable for the Trapper path. Constricting Arrow as it works on live is the only tactical and preemptive CC a fellow HR has against other HR's or the Control Wizard.
If you PVP against an HR as another HR or a CW you will more than likely see this encounter get unleashed first. This encounter more often than not determines the outcome of this type of encounter. Whilst it will not save you from being controlled, it will save you from the spike damage that follows. Changing this skill will synergize beautifully with the Trapper path but in turn leave the encounter less than useful for the Combat and Archer HR.
I have been thinking about how to implement this better and have really had a reality shock about how hard it is to do this fairly and smartly.
My suggestions would be as follows,
1. Leave Constricting Arrow working as it does on live as of now and add your new changes to Binding Arrow instead.
2. Change this skill to an attack that restricts an enemy from attacking. 5 seconds in PVE and Half VS Players
3. Leave everything as it is but increase the daze from Disruptive Shot
I believe that any of these changes will still give all HR paths a viable and tactical form of CC outside of being pure Trapper.
Feedback: Wilds Medicine
This skill is already causing so much controversy given that the current PVP set has not been WAI since its implementation. The heal on deflect is unquantifiable and leads to a lot of confusion. Please consider changing this to a fixed healing bonus, for example 10%, 20%, 30%, incoming healing bonus or any other type of healing others more creative than I can imagine.
Thank you and please consider my feedback.
I spent quite some time testing the HR in the last weeks. Trying to be as comprehensive as possible I went through the three feat trees and tested each of them in Icewind Dale daily quests and in the most difficult dungeons (mostly Never, Malabog and Valindra).
Gear: Royal Guard + Dead Dragon weapons + Hrimnir Set (my standard PvE set-up on live) + Black Ice Ioun Stone
Enchantments are rank 8 on defensive slots, mix of 7 and 8 on offensive ones, two rank 9 stones on the offensive slot of the Ioun stone and a rank 10 eldritch in the defensive slot. Greater Plaguefire on Weapon and Lesser Soulforged on the armor.
GS is 16,6k (excluding the Ioun).
Feedback:
Archery: as this is mostly a DPS tree I focused on checking DPS and survivability. As far as I can see I deal more or less the same damage of a CW with a similar GS (usually a little bit more) in most dungeons as long as the party has some way to concentrate enemies in small areas (in Mod 3 a CW outdamages me easily by 20% with my current Pathfinder build). This is with the Royal Guard Armor, the Black Ice falls about 10-15% behind.
Rain of Arrows is still by far the best DPS skill so grouping enemies is essential. If enemies can run or teleport around the battlefield easily then DPS drops sensibly (Epic Dread Vault with all the teleporting illithids is quite difficult in that sense). Stormwarden works better than Pathfinder in that situation due to the large area of Split the Sky but the difference is not huge. By the way the fact that you cannot summon more than one Thorn Ward would be an issue in this kind of dungeons as TW helps a lot in dealing consistent damage when enemies are sparse. With the Royal Guard Armor I usually keep two TW up at any time and sometimes even three. My suggestion would be to implement the “only-one TW at a time” policy only when flagged for PVP.
Honestly I don´t see any reason for a group to take an Archer HR in place of a CW right now as DPS is similar and the CW offers more control (even if not as much as before). The lack of control could also be an issue as the Archer will tend to attract quite some aggro (I use the Owl as an active companion and don´t suffer too much on that side but without that the situation is more difficult).
When it comes to taking down Valindra at the final Malabog´s Castle fight and after the final summoning at VT it seems to me that the M4 Archer is contributing more in taking her down fast than the M3 counterpart.
Survivability is in line with my current Mod3 Ranger. With 1,4k lifesteal if you can keep Rain of Arrows on the head of something, the only real risk is been one-shotted or been ganged by heavy-hitting mobs (goblins at Castle Never are the main culprit here). That´s why the lack of control is an issue, as Rain of Arrows is a static effect with a limited area and keeping enemies under it can be difficult. As in Mod3 Pathfinder fares better than Stormwarden due to Cruel Recovery.
Suggestions: I don´t think that adding control to the Archery build would make sense as that is the field of the Trapper. My suggestion would be to apply the Prey bonus automatically whenever hitting a target which is prone, stunned or dazed. In this way PvP 1:1 would not really be influenced as the ranger has no similar effects except for Bear Trap, which is extremely difficulty to apply and short-lived, cooperation in PvP would be more effective, and control-heavy parties will be looking for Archer HRs to faster take down enemies.
Combat: quite difficult to do an evaluation here. I don´t really like the feeling. Survivability is good but DPS is lacking in PvE. Sometimes I feel I´m hitting enemies with the blunt head of a stick. Fox Shift is packing quite some punch but the rest is lackluster compared to what the Archer can do.
Suggestion: I think that the best thing to do would be to look into the base damage of several melee powers (this will help the Trapper too).The fact that no control is available makes DPS quite important here.
Trapper: here I had the most fun. Control in PvE is good especially if using both Constricting Arrow and Hindering Strike. DPS is probably a little bit low but honestly I would focus on control for this feat tree as DPS is (or should be) covered by the first two. I like the new Aspect of the Serpent, much closer to the actual flow of battle, good job on that.
Suggestions: most Trappers will run with Constricting/Hindering/Rain of Arrows.
Increase the damage of Steel Breeze (it is a really gentle breeze right now), rework Rain of Swords to work on a semicircular area in front of you instead of a cone (that would help all rangers as it feels more what a “swords” power should do) and maybe raise damage a little bit there too.
Last suggestion is about Hindering Shot. Hitting a monster (so no other PCs) currently subject to Thorned Roots immediately deals the remaining roots damage, ends the roots effect and prones the target. If the target is CC immune extra damage is dealt.
This will turn the trapper in a targeted CC-machine and will start to make it a viable alternative to having a CW (or an extra CW in a party).
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I made some test in PvE to see how it looks. It was PvE so I choosed Stormwarden, 15k HR with Black Ice set. In overall combat is not impressing.
First I went to IWD and did some HE, my dmg was weak. Most dmg was from Split the sky which is range encounter(!).
Next I fight with Charthraxis. This boss has adds so I could use aoe. Most outgoing damage was from range encounters (split the sky, rain of arrows). Piercing Blade (feat) done just 4% of total damage. In this fight even DC did 50% more dmg than me, TR and GWF did 2x more dmg than me.
Last fight was with Merothrax. This boss has not adds. Like it was before most outgoing damage was from range encounters (rain of arrows, thorn ward). This time TR deal 20% more dmg than me (selfsame TR), SW deal 15% more (with Charthraxis he did 50% less then me).
Hunter Ranger: Combat: Piercing Blade: Now deals an additional 8/16/24/32/40% damage as Piercing Damage (up from 4/8/12/16/20%)
Hunter Ranger: Combat: Blade Hurricane: Your Flurry empowered at wills now strike 2 additional times at 65% bonus damage (up from 5% bonus damage).
Hunter Ranger: Combat: Blade Hurricane: Flurry strikes can now properly activate Piercing Blade.
We want combat to feel like a high risk damage dealer who is exposed to danger but deals strong burst, which is often facilitated by strong use of the capstone feat Blade Hurricane.
These changes should hit late this week or early next week, barring anything urgent
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
EDIT: Additional Change! Aspect of the Lone Wolf has been problematic for a while now because it grants a lot of Damage resistance in the situation where it will always be optimal in PVP and PVE, while providing very little downside in situations where it might be more valuable. It was also letting Hunter Rangers reach the same damage resistance values as heavily geared Fighters, and this was just too strong.
Hunter Ranger: Aspect of the Lone Wolf: *REWORK* Gain 2% bonus deflect chance for each enemy within 15' of you. Maximum bonus 10%. Ranking this class feature up increases the radius of the effect by 5'.
Crush you must realize that HR have almost no place in pve so many play them mostly in pvp. What you do to other classes correlate directly toward what you do with Hrs. I myself have a gf and a gwf beside my HR and i can tell you that they changes you made so far is practically annihilating HRs from being able to contest in pvp.
You try to buff melee part but you nerfed dam so hard that when you say you *increase the dam with Hunter Ranger: Combat: Piercing Blade: Now deals an additional 8/16/24/32/40% damage as Piercing Damage (up from 4/8/12/16/20%) its base is so low it will hardly matter.
At the same time you removed contricting arrow as a cc (1 sec root-realy ?) removed 10% deflection no anti cc and now nerfed aspect of the lone wolf to the ground.
This together with that gwf (the mostly played class in pvp no contest) now can sprint 40-55% longer with full cc immunity and the buff to cws contol mechanic(not a bad thing in itselfs for sure) the new Warlock class(whish i played to lvl 60) and the buff to gfs(badly needed) you will be in for a world of hurt if you play a meele based HR ,,,, to play a archer feated Hr in pvp will be pure suicide as it is now.
I have been playing pvp games for over 15 years now and I dont think I ever experianced this drastic changing of classes in any of them. Its a good thing you are active enough to change things on a regular bases but sometimes it feels more like your pushing random buttoms and hope that something good comes out.
Lets take a look at the argument that means that almost all classes has to to have those class features reworked. All classes has at least one that never comes off one for pve and one for pvp.
Balance different classes between pve and pvp isent easy for sure but what you are doing to the HR class right now is forcing everybody that want to pve into the archery path and all thatwant to pvp to the meele path and at the same time nerfing about everything that made HR valid in pvp while buffing other classes(yea gwf will dissagree but I dont think they will be less good in pvp rather the opposite).
You need to adress this before the module 4 go live or the Hrs will vanish into the woods and fade as memory:
Archery needs tools to survive in pvp either cc or anti cc but as it is now they are down as soon as the are cced(and for the love of god no more nerf to dam)
Meele need burst dam improvement as they are never going to be used in dungeons and some way to cc at least one opponent
Trapper need a serious dam boost and some anti cc (tbh let consticted arrow stay for archer and trapper would go a long way).
I test further ofc but if this stands I move on the the EBIL EBIL warlock who is rather fun to play as of now ).
Ouch. AotLW was our main DR outside of Tenacity. HRs don't have stealth or any type of CC immunity like Unstoppable or ITC. Our five "dodges" often don't work (I can't count the number of times I've dodged and still got hit by Take Down, EF, Flourish, etc.). You're going to end up with some very squishy HRs. Wilds Medicine may be our only fallback.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!