gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited July 2014
Some more detailed feedback and suggestions about Trappers and PvE (without CC-breaks, self-healing or disabling CC they will anyway be weak in PvP 1:1)
Background: my understanding is that the Trapper is meant to be constantly switching between melee and range, controlling enemies via roots.
Looking at our control powers in PvE there are basically only two strong root ones: Constrictive Arrow and Hindering Strike. Binding Arrow is a third one but it outdamages constrictive by 10% or less and can typically root only 1 enemy (2 if you´re lucky).
Looking at DPS there are basically Four powers that deal reasonable DPS: Fox Shift, Aimed Shot, Rain of Arrows and Thorn Ward. Stormwarden can add Split the Sky and Pathfinder`s Careful Aim as these two powers are fire and forget (almost).
As you can see there´s no overlap.
I see most Trappers run with either Constricting/Hindering/Rain or Fox Shift/Hindering/Rain. Hindering seems better than Constricting as it lets you roots mobs ganging you and move away to avoid being taken down. Marauder´s could help in achieving the constant moved in and out of the fray, but it will compete against either Fox Shift or Rain of Arrows and I honestly don´t see anyone taking it over those, not to lose too much dps.
Fleet stance: I see where this is going. Root melee enemies and move out of melee range is the main idea. But honestly 10% max is underwhelming. It can barely be seen in a PvE fight. This feat should help in burning less root time when moving out of melee to get more time to shoot enemies with ranged stuff. 5 ranks should guarantee the chance to fire-off an extra power (in PvE) before roots expire (I´m talking of the 7 seconds roots). My suggestion would be to raise the cap to 30% for PvE (possibly reduced in PvP).
Readied stance: here I´m a bit lost. A trapper will most likely have this benefit up most of the time, but AP generation for a ranger is not a big issue normally. We often rotate 6 encounters so AP generation is usually quite fast and a 5% gain is not really perceivable. By the way in PvE we only have one daily worth using (Seismic Shot). Forest meditation is almost useless as mobs will kill us anyway if we stay in one place, Forest Ghost needs you to stand still in one place until the countdown starts and all enemies who are targeting us with area attacks will execute them on our location anyway even if we are disappearing. Disruptive is essentially a PvP power and the two top ones are a little bit underwhelming. Suggestion: give an option to tanky Trappers and let this feat give extra deflect or DR versus strong-rooted enemies say 5 to 25%. In PvP strong roots will be very short-lived (3.5 seconds reduced further by control bonuses and tenacity) so the bonus will apply only for very short time. The cap to Wild Medicine and the IC of the PvP should be more than enough to not get a deflect bonus exploited.
Deft Strikes: fine with this one. It has a synergy with Aspect of the Serpent and fits the class. I would probably up it a little bit as the real impact to DPS will be far lower than 10% but it´s not crucial.
Slasher´s Speed (for Pathfinders): AP generation is not a big issue as I said before and the extra-effect of Pathfinder´s action could be already covered by Fleet Stance. Suggestion: I would give some love to Ambush/Bear Trap with this feat as I almost never see any Pathfinder using them. Personally I would extend the Ambush effect to all party members in an increasing radius. That would be awesome.
Nature´s fury (for Stormwardens): give some love to them here too. Cold Steel Hurricane is never used today and it´s a daily. Suggestion: add a damage bonus to Cold Steel Hurricane and Electric Shot/Clear the Ground when attacking rooted enemies so that we can at-least start some rangers using these powers.
Ancient roots: a fantastic feat. Nothing to say here, it works wonders and is the base of the whole Trapper concept.
Swiftness of the Fox: very very difficult to judge it, but my feeling is that encounter rotation speed is quite similar to my live ranger with 5 ranks of this feat. I would leave it as it is.
Thorned roots: this is a bit underwhelming for a 4th-tier feat. To get here you basically have to forget going hybrid. It´s especially weak with Hindering Strike as our blades don´t have an high base damage. Suggestion: keep it for ranged attacks and increase it for melee ones and inflict full damage to CC-Immune enemies.
Serpent´s Bite: great one. No Trapper will run without Aspect of the Serpent. Suggestion:I would even increase the critical side of this feat to 1 to 5% as it does to damage.
Biting Snares: Trappers are gonna be less helpful in fights with CC-immune monsters where all their roots will not be effective. Suggestion: skip the AP generation part. Keep damage and change Thorned Roots so that they apply a debuff to CC-immune monsters when Master Trapper is active or do something else cool.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
FEEDBACK
What about moving wild medicine to trappers tree? that would give trappers good surviving skills
As a for anything that makes trappers path stronger its to me a good idea thats the only path that uses both meele and archery and should be the nr one path imho :-).
As a for anything that makes trappers path stronger its to me a good idea thats the only path that uses both meele and archery and should be the nr one path imho :-).
all the hr community will just move where wild medicine is. it's not like we have alternatives.
all the hr community will just move where wild medicine is. it's not like we have alternatives.
I d say all HRs that what to do any PVP will more to use wild medicine. WM will be alpha and omega for PVP hr after nerfing AofLW and no cc for archers and no damage for trappers.
I like the idea of giving Marauder's escape as CC breaker. Make a lot of sense for me -as it is being use mostly as escape now. No really need to have it CC breaker for melee version but still could nice.
Also apply weak grasping root for Trapper is very nice idea. It was before in Archer tree as Nature's grasp but I never seen anybody use it ever. Instead of any T1 trapper feet - we don't need AP generation for 5%. 10% move faster is nice but more if you are in melee.
If you move Nature's grasp to T1 trapper - Im pretty sure that most of build will use it. Especially archers since they at least some CC.
Constrictive Arrow nerf is fatal for all except Trappers.
Hey all, we are making a handful more changes to give Archery a little more PVE oomph without affecting PVP and better solidify Trapper as a Hybrid Control/Damage tree who is flexible. That and an icon fix. Yay!
Hunter Ranger: Predator: This effect now grants 40% increased damage but this effect is halved on players.
Hunter Ranger: Trapper: Thorned Roots down deal 100/200/300/400/500% of your weapon damage over their duration (up from 50/100/150/200/250%).
Hunter Ranger: Biting Snares: Biting snares now also increases your Control Durations by 30% while active.
Hunter Ranger: Shift: Your shift power now shows the correct icon in the power window.
Hey all, we are making a handful more changes to give Archery a little more PVE oomph without affecting PVP and better solidify Trapper as a Hybrid Control/Damage tree who is flexible. That and an icon fix. Yay!
Hunter Ranger: Predator: This effect now grants 40% increased damage but this effect is halved on players.
Hunter Ranger: Trapper: Thorned Roots down deal 100/200/300/400/500% of your weapon damage over their duration (up from 50/100/150/200/250%).
Hunter Ranger: Biting Snares: Biting snares now also increases your Control Durations by 30% while active.
Hunter Ranger: Shift: Your shift power now shows the correct icon in the power window.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Nice changes, I love how you're making predator and assailing force work different in pve and pvp, that will solve many issues.
Hey all, we are making a handful more changes to give Archery a little more PVE oomph without affecting PVP and better solidify Trapper as a Hybrid Control/Damage tree who is flexible. That and an icon fix. Yay!
Hunter Ranger: Predator: This effect now grants 40% increased damage but this effect is halved on players.
Hunter Ranger: Trapper: Thorned Roots down deal 100/200/300/400/500% of your weapon damage over their duration (up from 50/100/150/200/250%).
Hunter Ranger: Biting Snares: Biting snares now also increases your Control Durations by 30% while active.
Hunter Ranger: Shift: Your shift power now shows the correct icon in the power window.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Thanks Chris! Will happily test the change! Great to see how present you are in the forum and all the effort put into adjusting the game!!
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Separating pve and pvp on same encounters/powers/feats is a daaaaaam good start to balance pve vs pvp.
There are so many skills that could be kept/buffed in pve to make classes viable (tr skills are the first that comes to mind) but would be game breaking in pvp, am very happy to see that this is something that enters the game now....
The changes to Trapper is a good start as dps must be competative in pve for that path to compete with Archer path.
Meele is still the only valid choise in pvp though as you need some form of healing when you dont have any cc/anti cc to keep you alive.
I would like to see you separate Consticting Arrow from meele path and let Trapper/Archer keep it as it was. If not something simular that can help with cc and anti cc for those paths.
I could also think of continuing with life steal path for meele tune down wild medicine and make it a t2 feat or place it in trapper path as a cap with 5 stacks or simular to give them something.
I will check out changes as soon as they come live and come back.
Trapper tree is a useless hybrid path, at least what I have seen. For pve it does to less dmg and for pvp its not good also. The roots right now are very weak in pvp. Would make no sense to move WM there. If its a control path, why would u have a feat that heals u when u get hit? The mobs should never get to u anyway if the cc of the path is strong enough.
Wilds medicine fits in melee. Trapper needs more control capabilities, not more survival with healing.
feedback wilds medicine and the new lone wolf go hand in hand now pretty much guarenteed procs of medicine in pvp considering most HR's will have anywhere between 40-45% deflect cryptic pretty much gave you your set bonus baked into your class.
this changes nothing from the problems of before still think the amount should be lowered or it should have an ICD after it's initial 10 stacks at 40% deflect and this getting capped at 10 stacks every few seconds what player will ever be able to take down this beast
the only really troubleing thing with this skill is it procs off anything example= plague fire heals you guys dot's heal you guys SW curse DMG heals you it doesnt matter what damage gets deflected it could be for 2 dmg it will heal to the fullest and this is a bit ridiculous.
just laughing to myself how useless plaguefire will be against HR's or any class mechanic that has to deal damage over time.
0
arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
Hey all, we are making a handful more changes to give Archery a little more PVE oomph without affecting PVP and better solidify Trapper as a Hybrid Control/Damage tree who is flexible. That and an icon fix. Yay!
Hunter Ranger: Predator: This effect now grants 40% increased damage but this effect is halved on players.
Hunter Ranger: Trapper: Thorned Roots down deal 100/200/300/400/500% of your weapon damage over their duration (up from 50/100/150/200/250%).
Hunter Ranger: Biting Snares: Biting snares now also increases your Control Durations by 30% while active.
Hunter Ranger: Shift: Your shift power now shows the correct icon in the power window.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Great news thanks Crush I love the direction in continuing to separate PVP and PVE effects definitely a smart way to balance. thanks for listening
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
this is from testing experience in pvp on test granted more can be done but right now on test in most situations wilds medicine with the new lone wolf is making it like how it is on live
and the problem isnt lone wolf it's in the mechanics of how wilds medicine works especially since it has no cooldown after 10 stacks with any dot it's right back up again in a matter or seconds theres no gap when the healing stops proccing
Maybe start using not DoT enchantments? Especially because the mandness boon isnt bugged anymore.
Hit a combat HR only with ur encounter and daily powers and only with at-wills when he is prone (prone = no deflect) and he doesnt heal that much.
HRs dont have forest meditation anymore (its a bad power now) so eventually, the HRcam be brought down by burst, but not by dots.
Trying to kill a combat deflect HR with DoTs and low dmg = Fail!
Hey all, we are making a handful more changes to give Archery a little more PVE oomph without affecting PVP and better solidify Trapper as a Hybrid Control/Damage tree who is flexible. That and an icon fix. Yay!
Hunter Ranger: Predator: This effect now grants 40% increased damage but this effect is halved on players.
Hunter Ranger: Trapper: Thorned Roots down deal 100/200/300/400/500% of your weapon damage over their duration (up from 50/100/150/200/250%).
Hunter Ranger: Biting Snares: Biting snares now also increases your Control Durations by 30% while active.
Hunter Ranger: Shift: Your shift power now shows the correct icon in the power window.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
This new Predator is another nerf of 5% damage (20% vs 25%) in PvP for Archery (and Archery is already very week in PvP)... HR in global need more survival in all trees, both in PvE and PvP.. my suggestion:
put wild medicine as class feature: 4/5% x 10 stacks heal in PvE and 2/2.5% (halved) in PvP , replace the moved wild medicine in the combat tree with increase DR with same mechanism of Aspect of Lone Wolf (2% increase DR for each enemy in the radius with a max of 10%)
HR Syncro - The Equalizer - PvP stats: 10000/4800 (kills/deaths)
I would like to see Constricting Arrow reverted to its former glory. Not much reason to use it now because it no longer stands out. Its just a slightly improved hindering shot/strike and hindering does more damage. The roots since nerfed arent that effective at all. So we have 2 of the same power. And you will see everyone just move to Boar's now.
Combat
I dont see any real benefit to the lifesteal.
Id like to see a mix of old and new feats. Id also like to see the paragon feat switched between trapper and combat. Slasher's Speed seems better suited to combat and advanced Stalking seems more Trapper like.
T1
Seeker
Serpent Weave
T2
Fluid Hunter - its better than it was.. but still could be better. Id rather see Elusive hunter return
Slasher's Speed
T3
Piercing Blade - I like this feat now with the buff.
Scything Blades - move Wild Medicine to T4. Also increase the damage on this feat
T4
Wilds Medicine
Expert Skirmisher - Best feat imo. Specially for a combat spec, can help you out of tough spots
T5
Blade Hurricane
I can say that i felt pretty squishy last night and was melted multiple times by a cw.
I will probably stay Pathfinder but would like to see the nerfs to Stormwarden lifted. Everyone is only going pathfinder. Need a reason for people to use the other path in pvp and pve. Stormstep unnerfed and maybe a bonus to fox shift in that paragon. Everyone is playing the same cookie cutter build and feats arent the only to change this.
Summery after Testing all Paths both pve and pvp up until reasent patch.
PVE
Trapper path - Fun soloing- Lacks aoe dam and single target dam - lacks group utilitys
Archer path - Solid dam both single target and aoe - lacks cc - could use some more survivability and something to lessen aggro
Meele path - Good survivability - lacks dam both in single target and aoe - lacks group utility
PVP
Archer - Good dam - no cc - extreamly low survivabilty - no anti cc - no group utility
Trapper path - The cc in this path becomes utterly useless in pvp - lacks survivability - no cc - no anti cc - low dam - no group utility
Meele path - Very good survivability - deacent dam but no burst - no cc - no anti cc - no group utility
As it is now Hrs has 2 options full meele build for pvp or full archer build for pve there is no middle ground no hybrid path to go.
Now here comes the bad part for the Hr class as a hole.
If you are to make groups for pve and compare why different classes should be taken into a group only tr falls short of hr.
Gf is a no brainer with their new group buffs, solid dps and HUGE aggro management.
Gwf is still solid aoe dps and can still tank even if its to some lesser extent then before.
Dc is a no brainer with healing and debuffing+shielding.
Cw well they are KING of pve I think they will rule even more then before if not for the warlock class but that is a big maby still.
Warlock with a more then great utility for both dam and group heals will as I see it take their place in pve and depending how it comes out when module 4 goes live also in pvp.
Tr well they can run to campfires and do deacent single target dam but wont add anything of real value to the group(yes there are some exelent players that are an exeption as they always will contribute even if they play a naked clown).
If you are to make room for a Hr you have one cw less or one warlock less whish isent an option really.
Now I am sure some stubborn Hr lovers will stay as archer in pve and do a deacent job of it but if you going to start a new char Hr wont be one of the top shoises and the class will slowly dwindle away into the forrest from where i came .......
In pvp I had a new experiance.
I played pvp games for well over 15 years in different games and when it comes to holding my ground I would like to see me more then deacent.
My Hr has 17kgs 38+khp 30 Dr and 45% Reflect and are fully meele build leaning toward survivability over pure dam but still around 5.5k power 32%arpen 1500+reg.
On test and played well over 100 duels as well a dussin pvp matches and meele Hr stand well up to most classes.
The only class i havent fought is perma hide/bile tr as i found non so far.
But when it come to Cws Hr is but a irritating fly buzzing around.
I fought some deacent 17-18k Cws with and without new shield spell and the only differance is how fast i die.
They melt me down in less then 30 sec and mostly am lucky if i can land a single meele attack. The cc in pvp from Cws right now is to the extent that you can leave the keyboard and come back when its over it makes no difference what so ever.
The push takes you back to your birthplace on another continent like 100 miles away and while running back trying to get near the pesky little Cw you are locked down frozen to the ground so hard that even if the sun came down and visited you still stay frozen.
In between this they nuke the living HAMSTER out of you with such and ease that I can swear I saw them yawn at me..
There is no way you can compeate in pvp with a meele Hr against this monster that they have created and together with a gf+dc they will devaste anything but another Cw with a gf+dc.
I must say am humbled by the experiance and if this goes live the need to play Hr in both pve and pvp is 0 , zip, nada compared to what a Cw can add and I very much daubt that we can compeate with a Warlock fully pvp geared with boons either.....
Feedback: Lack of Feedback for Constricting Arrow Change
Hello Dev's, we are doing our best to communicate with both opinion and true testing that this rework is more than likley going to make the encounter redundant for most specs. Please keep in mind that good feedback can only work when both parties address each other. Is your decision on this change final? Are you willing to rework other encounters to give back some control utility? Are you open to ideas for a rework?
Feedback: Marauders
If the above change is final and if you are willing to rework another encounter I would like to suggest this one. This change would make this skill utility only.
Rank 1: Range: You break free from control effects and dash backwards 50 feet, escaping your enemies.
Melee: Rush your target (no damage), slowing them by 10% for 1 seconds.
If you are willing to rework the change to Constricting Arrow.
Range: Fire and arrow at your target causing vines to constrict around them for 3 seconds.
Rank 2: Range: + 1 Sec stun
Rank 3: Range + 1 Sec stun
0
arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
edited July 2014
Is there a way i can tell from the combat log's and ACT if Stillness of the Forest is triggering the max range bonus?
Suggestion : if possible A visual que on the recticle to indicate when you are at the max bonus damage distance
( I think I have a good feel for it but it would be nice for some confirmation, I started originally by backing up until i get target out of range and move forward a few steps at a time until i am in range,this becomes a lot more difficult to set up when dodging AOE's or having picked up agro)
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
Feedback: Lack of Feedback for Constricting Arrow Change
Hello Dev's, we are doing our best to communicate with both opinion and true testing that this rework is more than likley going to make the encounter redundant for most specs. Please keep in mind that good feedback can only work when both parties address each other. Is your decision on this change final? Are you willing to rework other encounters to give back some control utility? Are you open to ideas for a rework?
Feedback: Marauders
If the above change is final and if you are willing to rework another encounter I would like to suggest this one. This change would make this skill utility only.
Rank 1: Range: You break free from control effects and dash backwards 50 feet, escaping your enemies.
Melee: Rush your target (no damage), slowing them by 10% for 1 seconds.
If you are willing to rework the change to Constricting Arrow.
Range: Fire and arrow at your target causing vines to constrict around them for 3 seconds.
Rank 2: Range: + 1 Sec stun
Rank 3: Range + 1 Sec stun
I like these ideas and think they're important if HR is ever going to move away from passive survival through self-healing.
The only suggestion would be to make Maurader's rush break CC too because you can't control what stance you'll be in when you get CC'ed. I would even get rid of the slow and just make it movement/CC-escape.
Feedback
One of the new boons last feat gives 10% incoming heal bonus. For hrs this would make them even more unkillable in pvp.
0
nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
Animation cancelling
Thorn Ward, Thorn Strike, Boar Charge, Rain of Swords, Seismic Shot animations can be cancelled early via Shift to enable the player to use other powers earlier as opposed to waiting for the powers to end normally
distrupting shot is still piercing throught cc immunity
0
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited July 2014
Binding Arrow has been basically superseded by the new Constrictive Arrow and the two powers are very similar now. Several users pointed out that HRs have no real CC at the moment.
Suggestion: replace Binding Arrow with the area power used by Green Dragonfangs, applying strong roots and disable. This will give all HRs a way to get a chance against ranged opponents that have CC available, and enforce the role of the trapper tree as controller by adding a disabling effect that can effectively shut down ranged enemies in PvE.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
0
arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
Binding Arrow has been basically superseded by the new Constrictive Arrow and the two powers are very similar now. Several users pointed out that HRs have no real CC at the moment.
Suggestion: replace Binding Arrow with the area power used by Green Dragonfangs, applying strong roots and disable. This will give all HRs a way to get a chance against ranged opponents that have CC available, and enforce the role of the trapper tree as controller by adding a disabling effect that can effectively shut down ranged enemies in PvE.
Love that idea
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
This ability really needs to be scaled down just a bit because of how effective it is, because it's activated on deflected hits, and HRs can easily get 20%+ deflection, it's not very hard to get enough stacks of medicine to actually heal to almost full hp, or even full hp, without doing anything but shifting to avoid damage and putting objects in between the opponents. HRs can effectivly take on multiple people (in PvP) and beat them all and then gain full hp withing 5-10 seconds, using only their passive healing abilities. HRs take the cleric out of devoted cleric, and just strap it on themselves with so many healing abilities. Wild medicine should be put into the nature tree (because it seems more at home there) aswell as being able to give them a more combat oriented feat for the melee/combat tree.
While the feat is nowhere near as powerful as some make it out to be, it's skill-less, boring and causes no end to complaints.
I'd much rather HR's depend more on skill or timing for defense. I suggest replacing one of the lifesteal feats in the combat tree with a feat that would give Marauder's CC-break and immunity during duration (for both stances, since you can't control which stance you'll be in when you get CC'ed). Then you could cut wild's medicine effectiveness in half.
I still think melee-oriented HR's need some self-healing, and from what I understand it goes along with D&D lore that rangers can heal well. But it shouldn't be the crux of our defense.
While the ability is nowhere near as powerful as some make it out to be, it's skill-less, boring and causes no end to complaints.
I'd much rather HR's depend more on skill or timing for defense. I suggest replacing one of the lifesteal feats in the combat tree with a feat that would give Marauder's CC-break and immunity during duration (for both stances, since you can't control which stance you'll be in when you get CC'ed). Then you could cut wild's medicine effectiveness in half.
I still think melee-oriented HR's need some self-healing, and from what I understand it goes along with D&D lore that rangers can heal well. But it shouldn't be the crux of our defense.
An HR that depends more on mobility would be much more fun and satisfying to play, and less frustrating to play against.
Comments
Background: my understanding is that the Trapper is meant to be constantly switching between melee and range, controlling enemies via roots.
Looking at our control powers in PvE there are basically only two strong root ones: Constrictive Arrow and Hindering Strike. Binding Arrow is a third one but it outdamages constrictive by 10% or less and can typically root only 1 enemy (2 if you´re lucky).
Looking at DPS there are basically Four powers that deal reasonable DPS: Fox Shift, Aimed Shot, Rain of Arrows and Thorn Ward. Stormwarden can add Split the Sky and Pathfinder`s Careful Aim as these two powers are fire and forget (almost).
As you can see there´s no overlap.
I see most Trappers run with either Constricting/Hindering/Rain or Fox Shift/Hindering/Rain. Hindering seems better than Constricting as it lets you roots mobs ganging you and move away to avoid being taken down. Marauder´s could help in achieving the constant moved in and out of the fray, but it will compete against either Fox Shift or Rain of Arrows and I honestly don´t see anyone taking it over those, not to lose too much dps.
Fleet stance: I see where this is going. Root melee enemies and move out of melee range is the main idea. But honestly 10% max is underwhelming. It can barely be seen in a PvE fight. This feat should help in burning less root time when moving out of melee to get more time to shoot enemies with ranged stuff. 5 ranks should guarantee the chance to fire-off an extra power (in PvE) before roots expire (I´m talking of the 7 seconds roots). My suggestion would be to raise the cap to 30% for PvE (possibly reduced in PvP).
Readied stance: here I´m a bit lost. A trapper will most likely have this benefit up most of the time, but AP generation for a ranger is not a big issue normally. We often rotate 6 encounters so AP generation is usually quite fast and a 5% gain is not really perceivable. By the way in PvE we only have one daily worth using (Seismic Shot). Forest meditation is almost useless as mobs will kill us anyway if we stay in one place, Forest Ghost needs you to stand still in one place until the countdown starts and all enemies who are targeting us with area attacks will execute them on our location anyway even if we are disappearing. Disruptive is essentially a PvP power and the two top ones are a little bit underwhelming. Suggestion: give an option to tanky Trappers and let this feat give extra deflect or DR versus strong-rooted enemies say 5 to 25%. In PvP strong roots will be very short-lived (3.5 seconds reduced further by control bonuses and tenacity) so the bonus will apply only for very short time. The cap to Wild Medicine and the IC of the PvP should be more than enough to not get a deflect bonus exploited.
Deft Strikes: fine with this one. It has a synergy with Aspect of the Serpent and fits the class. I would probably up it a little bit as the real impact to DPS will be far lower than 10% but it´s not crucial.
Slasher´s Speed (for Pathfinders): AP generation is not a big issue as I said before and the extra-effect of Pathfinder´s action could be already covered by Fleet Stance. Suggestion: I would give some love to Ambush/Bear Trap with this feat as I almost never see any Pathfinder using them. Personally I would extend the Ambush effect to all party members in an increasing radius. That would be awesome.
Nature´s fury (for Stormwardens): give some love to them here too. Cold Steel Hurricane is never used today and it´s a daily. Suggestion: add a damage bonus to Cold Steel Hurricane and Electric Shot/Clear the Ground when attacking rooted enemies so that we can at-least start some rangers using these powers.
Ancient roots: a fantastic feat. Nothing to say here, it works wonders and is the base of the whole Trapper concept.
Swiftness of the Fox: very very difficult to judge it, but my feeling is that encounter rotation speed is quite similar to my live ranger with 5 ranks of this feat. I would leave it as it is.
Thorned roots: this is a bit underwhelming for a 4th-tier feat. To get here you basically have to forget going hybrid. It´s especially weak with Hindering Strike as our blades don´t have an high base damage. Suggestion: keep it for ranged attacks and increase it for melee ones and inflict full damage to CC-Immune enemies.
Serpent´s Bite: great one. No Trapper will run without Aspect of the Serpent. Suggestion:I would even increase the critical side of this feat to 1 to 5% as it does to damage.
Biting Snares: Trappers are gonna be less helpful in fights with CC-immune monsters where all their roots will not be effective. Suggestion: skip the AP generation part. Keep damage and change Thorned Roots so that they apply a debuff to CC-immune monsters when Master Trapper is active or do something else cool.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
What about moving wild medicine to trappers tree? that would give trappers good surviving skills
As a for anything that makes trappers path stronger its to me a good idea thats the only path that uses both meele and archery and should be the nr one path imho :-).
all the hr community will just move where wild medicine is. it's not like we have alternatives.
I d say all HRs that what to do any PVP will more to use wild medicine. WM will be alpha and omega for PVP hr after nerfing AofLW and no cc for archers and no damage for trappers.
I like the idea of giving Marauder's escape as CC breaker. Make a lot of sense for me -as it is being use mostly as escape now. No really need to have it CC breaker for melee version but still could nice.
Also apply weak grasping root for Trapper is very nice idea. It was before in Archer tree as Nature's grasp but I never seen anybody use it ever. Instead of any T1 trapper feet - we don't need AP generation for 5%. 10% move faster is nice but more if you are in melee.
If you move Nature's grasp to T1 trapper - Im pretty sure that most of build will use it. Especially archers since they at least some CC.
Constrictive Arrow nerf is fatal for all except Trappers.
Hunter Ranger: Predator: This effect now grants 40% increased damage but this effect is halved on players.
Hunter Ranger: Trapper: Thorned Roots down deal 100/200/300/400/500% of your weapon damage over their duration (up from 50/100/150/200/250%).
Hunter Ranger: Biting Snares: Biting snares now also increases your Control Durations by 30% while active.
Hunter Ranger: Shift: Your shift power now shows the correct icon in the power window.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Nice changes, I love how you're making predator and assailing force work different in pve and pvp, that will solve many issues.
HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
SW Soulbinder Fury
Thanks Chris! Will happily test the change! Great to see how present you are in the forum and all the effort put into adjusting the game!!
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
There are so many skills that could be kept/buffed in pve to make classes viable (tr skills are the first that comes to mind) but would be game breaking in pvp, am very happy to see that this is something that enters the game now....
The changes to Trapper is a good start as dps must be competative in pve for that path to compete with Archer path.
Meele is still the only valid choise in pvp though as you need some form of healing when you dont have any cc/anti cc to keep you alive.
I would like to see you separate Consticting Arrow from meele path and let Trapper/Archer keep it as it was. If not something simular that can help with cc and anti cc for those paths.
I could also think of continuing with life steal path for meele tune down wild medicine and make it a t2 feat or place it in trapper path as a cap with 5 stacks or simular to give them something.
I will check out changes as soon as they come live and come back.
Wilds medicine fits in melee. Trapper needs more control capabilities, not more survival with healing.
wilds medicine and the new lone wolf go hand in hand now pretty much guarenteed procs of medicine in pvp considering most HR's will have anywhere between 40-45% deflect cryptic pretty much gave you your set bonus baked into your class.
this changes nothing from the problems of before still think the amount should be lowered or it should have an ICD after it's initial 10 stacks at 40% deflect and this getting capped at 10 stacks every few seconds what player will ever be able to take down this beast
the only really troubleing thing with this skill is it procs off anything example= plague fire heals you guys dot's heal you guys SW curse DMG heals you it doesnt matter what damage gets deflected it could be for 2 dmg it will heal to the fullest and this is a bit ridiculous.
just laughing to myself how useless plaguefire will be against HR's or any class mechanic that has to deal damage over time.
Great news thanks Crush I love the direction in continuing to separate PVP and PVE effects definitely a smart way to balance. thanks for listening
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
and the problem isnt lone wolf it's in the mechanics of how wilds medicine works especially since it has no cooldown after 10 stacks with any dot it's right back up again in a matter or seconds theres no gap when the healing stops proccing
Hit a combat HR only with ur encounter and daily powers and only with at-wills when he is prone (prone = no deflect) and he doesnt heal that much.
HRs dont have forest meditation anymore (its a bad power now) so eventually, the HRcam be brought down by burst, but not by dots.
Trying to kill a combat deflect HR with DoTs and low dmg = Fail!
This new Predator is another nerf of 5% damage (20% vs 25%) in PvP for Archery (and Archery is already very week in PvP)... HR in global need more survival in all trees, both in PvE and PvP.. my suggestion:
put wild medicine as class feature: 4/5% x 10 stacks heal in PvE and 2/2.5% (halved) in PvP , replace the moved wild medicine in the combat tree with increase DR with same mechanism of Aspect of Lone Wolf (2% increase DR for each enemy in the radius with a max of 10%)
I would like to see Constricting Arrow reverted to its former glory. Not much reason to use it now because it no longer stands out. Its just a slightly improved hindering shot/strike and hindering does more damage. The roots since nerfed arent that effective at all. So we have 2 of the same power. And you will see everyone just move to Boar's now.
Combat
I dont see any real benefit to the lifesteal.
Id like to see a mix of old and new feats. Id also like to see the paragon feat switched between trapper and combat. Slasher's Speed seems better suited to combat and advanced Stalking seems more Trapper like.
T1
Seeker
Serpent Weave
T2
Fluid Hunter - its better than it was.. but still could be better. Id rather see Elusive hunter return
Slasher's Speed
T3
Piercing Blade - I like this feat now with the buff.
Scything Blades - move Wild Medicine to T4. Also increase the damage on this feat
T4
Wilds Medicine
Expert Skirmisher - Best feat imo. Specially for a combat spec, can help you out of tough spots
T5
Blade Hurricane
I can say that i felt pretty squishy last night and was melted multiple times by a cw.
I will probably stay Pathfinder but would like to see the nerfs to Stormwarden lifted. Everyone is only going pathfinder. Need a reason for people to use the other path in pvp and pve. Stormstep unnerfed and maybe a bonus to fox shift in that paragon. Everyone is playing the same cookie cutter build and feats arent the only to change this.
Next is trapper testing.
PVE
Trapper path - Fun soloing- Lacks aoe dam and single target dam - lacks group utilitys
Archer path - Solid dam both single target and aoe - lacks cc - could use some more survivability and something to lessen aggro
Meele path - Good survivability - lacks dam both in single target and aoe - lacks group utility
PVP
Archer - Good dam - no cc - extreamly low survivabilty - no anti cc - no group utility
Trapper path - The cc in this path becomes utterly useless in pvp - lacks survivability - no cc - no anti cc - low dam - no group utility
Meele path - Very good survivability - deacent dam but no burst - no cc - no anti cc - no group utility
As it is now Hrs has 2 options full meele build for pvp or full archer build for pve there is no middle ground no hybrid path to go.
Now here comes the bad part for the Hr class as a hole.
If you are to make groups for pve and compare why different classes should be taken into a group only tr falls short of hr.
Gf is a no brainer with their new group buffs, solid dps and HUGE aggro management.
Gwf is still solid aoe dps and can still tank even if its to some lesser extent then before.
Dc is a no brainer with healing and debuffing+shielding.
Cw well they are KING of pve I think they will rule even more then before if not for the warlock class but that is a big maby still.
Warlock with a more then great utility for both dam and group heals will as I see it take their place in pve and depending how it comes out when module 4 goes live also in pvp.
Tr well they can run to campfires and do deacent single target dam but wont add anything of real value to the group(yes there are some exelent players that are an exeption as they always will contribute even if they play a naked clown).
If you are to make room for a Hr you have one cw less or one warlock less whish isent an option really.
Now I am sure some stubborn Hr lovers will stay as archer in pve and do a deacent job of it but if you going to start a new char Hr wont be one of the top shoises and the class will slowly dwindle away into the forrest from where i came .......
In pvp I had a new experiance.
I played pvp games for well over 15 years in different games and when it comes to holding my ground I would like to see me more then deacent.
My Hr has 17kgs 38+khp 30 Dr and 45% Reflect and are fully meele build leaning toward survivability over pure dam but still around 5.5k power 32%arpen 1500+reg.
On test and played well over 100 duels as well a dussin pvp matches and meele Hr stand well up to most classes.
The only class i havent fought is perma hide/bile tr as i found non so far.
But when it come to Cws Hr is but a irritating fly buzzing around.
I fought some deacent 17-18k Cws with and without new shield spell and the only differance is how fast i die.
They melt me down in less then 30 sec and mostly am lucky if i can land a single meele attack. The cc in pvp from Cws right now is to the extent that you can leave the keyboard and come back when its over it makes no difference what so ever.
The push takes you back to your birthplace on another continent like 100 miles away and while running back trying to get near the pesky little Cw you are locked down frozen to the ground so hard that even if the sun came down and visited you still stay frozen.
In between this they nuke the living HAMSTER out of you with such and ease that I can swear I saw them yawn at me..
There is no way you can compeate in pvp with a meele Hr against this monster that they have created and together with a gf+dc they will devaste anything but another Cw with a gf+dc.
I must say am humbled by the experiance and if this goes live the need to play Hr in both pve and pvp is 0 , zip, nada compared to what a Cw can add and I very much daubt that we can compeate with a Warlock fully pvp geared with boons either.....
Hello Dev's, we are doing our best to communicate with both opinion and true testing that this rework is more than likley going to make the encounter redundant for most specs. Please keep in mind that good feedback can only work when both parties address each other. Is your decision on this change final? Are you willing to rework other encounters to give back some control utility? Are you open to ideas for a rework?
Feedback: Marauders
If the above change is final and if you are willing to rework another encounter I would like to suggest this one. This change would make this skill utility only.
Rank 1:
Range: You break free from control effects and dash backwards 50 feet, escaping your enemies.
Melee: Rush your target (no damage), slowing them by 10% for 1 seconds.
Rank 2:
Range: + Action Point Bonus + 50%
Melee: + 1 Sec
Rank 3:
Range: + Action Point Bonus + 50%
Melee: + 1 Sec
Feedback: Constricting Arrow
If you are willing to rework the change to Constricting Arrow.
Range: Fire and arrow at your target causing vines to constrict around them for 3 seconds.
Rank 2:
Range: + 1 Sec stun
Rank 3:
Range + 1 Sec stun
Suggestion : if possible A visual que on the recticle to indicate when you are at the max bonus damage distance
( I think I have a good feel for it but it would be nice for some confirmation, I started originally by backing up until i get target out of range and move forward a few steps at a time until i am in range,this becomes a lot more difficult to set up when dodging AOE's or having picked up agro)
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
I like these ideas and think they're important if HR is ever going to move away from passive survival through self-healing.
The only suggestion would be to make Maurader's rush break CC too because you can't control what stance you'll be in when you get CC'ed. I would even get rid of the slow and just make it movement/CC-escape.
One of the new boons last feat gives 10% incoming heal bonus. For hrs this would make them even more unkillable in pvp.
Thorn Ward, Thorn Strike, Boar Charge, Rain of Swords, Seismic Shot animations can be cancelled early via Shift to enable the player to use other powers earlier as opposed to waiting for the powers to end normally
Suggestion: replace Binding Arrow with the area power used by Green Dragonfangs, applying strong roots and disable. This will give all HRs a way to get a chance against ranged opponents that have CC available, and enforce the role of the trapper tree as controller by adding a disabling effect that can effectively shut down ranged enemies in PvE.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Love that idea
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
This ability really needs to be scaled down just a bit because of how effective it is, because it's activated on deflected hits, and HRs can easily get 20%+ deflection, it's not very hard to get enough stacks of medicine to actually heal to almost full hp, or even full hp, without doing anything but shifting to avoid damage and putting objects in between the opponents. HRs can effectivly take on multiple people (in PvP) and beat them all and then gain full hp withing 5-10 seconds, using only their passive healing abilities. HRs take the cleric out of devoted cleric, and just strap it on themselves with so many healing abilities. Wild medicine should be put into the nature tree (because it seems more at home there) aswell as being able to give them a more combat oriented feat for the melee/combat tree.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Please keep all posts directed towards the developers.
General Rule of Thumb: if you respond to another person's feedback it more than likely shouldn't be posted here.
While the feat is nowhere near as powerful as some make it out to be, it's skill-less, boring and causes no end to complaints.
I'd much rather HR's depend more on skill or timing for defense. I suggest replacing one of the lifesteal feats in the combat tree with a feat that would give Marauder's CC-break and immunity during duration (for both stances, since you can't control which stance you'll be in when you get CC'ed). Then you could cut wild's medicine effectiveness in half.
I still think melee-oriented HR's need some self-healing, and from what I understand it goes along with D&D lore that rangers can heal well. But it shouldn't be the crux of our defense.
While the ability is nowhere near as powerful as some make it out to be, it's skill-less, boring and causes no end to complaints.
I'd much rather HR's depend more on skill or timing for defense. I suggest replacing one of the lifesteal feats in the combat tree with a feat that would give Marauder's CC-break and immunity during duration (for both stances, since you can't control which stance you'll be in when you get CC'ed). Then you could cut wild's medicine effectiveness in half.
I still think melee-oriented HR's need some self-healing, and from what I understand it goes along with D&D lore that rangers can heal well. But it shouldn't be the crux of our defense.
An HR that depends more on mobility would be much more fun and satisfying to play, and less frustrating to play against.