hrs on the test shard now have great dps on archery. with some sustainability. But class balance does not really matter in pve it is in pvp that there needs to be class balance. Hrs should not be able to take 2 gfs with rank 10s and win or have only one class in the game be able to fight them with about a 40% chance of winning, aka gwfs. You need to understand that when i hit a hr will bullcharge before they hit the ground they have regen the dmg back. Pvp is why you cannot have it all. It is where there needs to be balance it is where hrs own the ****ing world because only gwfs "stand" a chance and all other classes need to 2v1 or 3v1. hrs need to be a lot less tanky because they still have forest meditation.
HR is best pvp class is the game, being able to dodge everything and regen more than anyone, with very high dps and then being able to go stealth I don't think you need anything else.
This is a feedback thread about hr changes and yet 90% of the post seem to be from gwfs that feel the need to by all means necessary invade every single forum as soon as they see something that can threaten their domination in this game.
There is no end to the trolling from gwfs and it really makes me wounder if its not mostly the same personalities that chose to play a fotm class and yet somehow pretend they are far far from the best. Its always seem to be some other class that can do everthing they can do better and that everybody that cant handle them in pvp just lack skill/knowladge - amazing.....
Hr as it stands now (am sure the gwfs loudly crying and endless qqing will manage to not only give them back if not all but most of any changes the devs made to make them less op but also take away anything remotly good for hrs. With last changes most of the nerf of unstoppable is gone and with 30% dr and cc immunity + 40% less stam drain they prolly are an even greater pain in pvp, all that remains for them now is to get 1 or 2 knock down back just lol) are ok in pve with archery path but without any cc and with a serious lack in defence that path is dead in the water in pvp.
The meele path can be valid in pvp if the nerfing dont continue and they get some buff in dam as they hit like wet nudles right now.
The trapper path is actually very fun to play but lack the dam and the survivability to be effective in either pvp or pve.
Almost every single qq thread about the survivabilty is before they nerf armor and change wild medicine as and about every single comment about the dam is from people standing still letting a fully archery path hr shoot at them.
I see alot of comment from gwfs telling peeps to gtfo from their thread if they write anything negative about gwfs but they sure dont seem to feel the same visiting other classes threads......
0
grimslawMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 43
edited July 2014
"class balance does not really matter in pve it is in pvp that there needs to be class balance." I beg to differ. I would like for my character to be desired in pve. So, you may not deem pve important, but I do. This is ultimately the problem. They are trying to cater to two different factions, each with different wants. The powers/feats have to satisfy both sides, but the margin for error is so small I don't think it can happen.
This is a feedback thread about hr changes and yet 90% of the post seem to be from gwfs that feel the need to by all means necessary invade every single forum as soon as they see something that can threaten their domination in this game.
There is no end to the trolling from gwfs and it really makes me wounder if its not mostly the same personalities that chose to play a fotm class and yet somehow pretend they are far far from the best. Its always seem to be some other class that can do everthing they can do better and that everybody that cant handle them in pvp just lack skill/knowladge - amazing.....
Hr as it stands now (am sure the gwfs loudly crying and endless qqing will manage to not only give them back if not all but most of any changes the devs made to make them less op but also take away anything remotly good for hrs. With last changes most of the nerf of unstoppable is gone and with 30% dr and cc immunity + 40% less stam drain they prolly are an even greater pain in pvp, all that remains for them now is to get 1 or 2 knock down back just lol) are ok in pve with archery path but without any cc and with a serious lack in defence that path is dead in the water in pvp.
The meele path can be valid in pvp if the nerfing dont continue and they get some buff in dam as they hit like wet nudles right now.
The trapper path is actually very fun to play but lack the dam and the survivability to be effective in either pvp or pve.
Almost every single qq thread about the survivabilty is before they nerf armor and change wild medicine as and about every single comment about the dam is from people standing still letting a fully archery path hr shoot at them.
I see alot of comment from gwfs telling peeps to gtfo from their thread if they write anything negative about gwfs but they sure dont seem to feel the same visiting other classes threads......
I don't even have a gwf char....I play gf as my main and we are getting buffs so I'm not complaining about that, I was replying to say that HR don't need anything like CC immunity because the HR class is already the best class in pvp, all the other 4 classes dont stand a chance against HR with equal gear and skill because in pvp the HR is best at everything.
Crixus - PVP GF
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
grimslawMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 43
edited July 2014
Is this HR you used in your example, able to kill both of the rank 10 gf by itself?
Constricting arrow seems pretty weak. The aoe radius is incredible small and last like 1 second. Anyway to extend both of these so we could kinda play a ghetto cw. As in gather all the mobs aoe root em, team aoes them down. At the moment, constricting now seems useless in pve and pvp.
Yes, speaking mainly about the Trapper tree, the addition of damage doesn't counter balance the real lack of CC on the strong grasping roots powers. I know it says that they now last 5 seconds (PvE), but most of the time the mobs actually get out of it sooner. I like that constricting became a roots power, but the AoE feels too small. Since the actual CC feels like it only works half the time, adding some more damage to thorns would be a nice boost an perhaps make it more viable. Regardless, this tree seems the most challenging to master, so I'm going to be playing it in PvE. I think I'd just feel more useful if I had more damage output, even after Serpent buffs which I tend to keep up most of the time.
*Legit Community*
Heather - Ranger
James - Paladin
Jet - Warlock
Royal - Cleric
Gray - Rogue
Red - Wizard
Ios - Barbarian
Pathfinder is weak. I am speaking here as someone who has played hybrid since the class was introduced. Honestly a combat/ archery build makes a better hybrid than a full pathfinder build. The encounter cooldowns are actually less than were available Mod3. Combined with the Mod3 stormstep nerf it really tunnels HRs into archery/ PVE or Combat/ PVP with little room for hybrid play. Maybe a capstone feat that had the same effect as quiver but on both stances? I tried the control build and it still fails. As things stand full archery with a pathfinder secondary looks like the best hybrid build.
I don't even have a gwf char....I play gf as my main and we are getting buffs so I'm not complaining about that, I was replying to say that HR don't need anything like CC immunity because the HR class is already the best class in pvp, all the other 4 classes dont stand a chance against HR with equal gear and skill because in pvp the HR is best at everything.
Was the best would be more accurate and no gwf was still better overall as they could kill faster and 2 gwfs had better synergy then 2 hr as they could chain cc kill anything that moved crawled flew or borrowed in 3 sec flat.
As they are nerfing the heal from the armor and removing speed boost and deflection boost from meele path + remaking encounters, powers and pathts why do you even bother to compare what is now and what is to come.
How do you know with the changes to gf cw and gwfs that hrs dont need any cc what so ever as they have no way getting out of ccs.
Try to take a deep breath wait until they say that changes are going live mkay..
Right now we dont know what will happend and they nerfed dam in archery path in next update am sure with the never ending qqing about things that actually not even happend hrs will come out just as you want and become even more useless in pve and have the option to do some dam in pvp with little survivabilty or have some surviability in pvp and do no dam - happy now ?
problem is the hr has too much self healing its a joke. The damage increase I welcome but its just the self healing which throws all balance out the window.
Make the self heals of the hr work as intended so it is not half the hp bar in a few seconds.
Make the self heals of the hr work as intended once per second and not proc off of dots more than once a second or just make it so it works off of actual encounter/at will hits.
Do you even read the updates from the devs ??
Newsflash they put a timer on armor proc of 2 sec and healing debuff(as is should have) lowering the proc chanse when you deflect from 75% chanse to 50% making it more or less HAMSTER compared to now. And it will not proc of dots etc.
Wild medicine is down to 10 stacks and with the removal of deflect feat in meele 30% deflect is about what you can have now meaning that you will need an avarage of at leat 30 hits to get to 10 stacks. But trust me it will be down to 5 or less stacks once you qq enough.
BUT this WAS on live and that is history now with new paths.
ARCHERY CAN NOT HAVE WILD MEDICINE and do high dam-no cc - no way to escape cc
MEELE DONT HAVE HIGH DAM and with nerf to armor + inc nerfs to wild medicine I cant see they becomming much of a threat in pvp and utterly useless in pve.
TRAPPER HAVE **** FOR DAM AND **** FOR SURVIVABILITY fun as hell to play though
You still talk about survivabilty before the changes has taken place tell me how much more will you qq about things of the past before you even try to understand that changes are incomming ... jeeeeeeeeeeez this is getting redicules .............
Devs, I've been supportive with most of all the changes in the past you have made to this class but you have really done nothing good here. Since creating this thread and announcing the changes all you have done is make two new, viable paths, unviable again.
Please revisit these paths and take all feedback into consideration aside from only complaints about how overpowered an HR is currentally on live, because live will change come MOD 4.
HR's damage is insane. You should tone all it down around 50% (all encounters, at-wills and dailies) cause not other class can face them.
This is the only class which 6 encounter powers, so, you should rise the cooldon on encounters around 20% on "encounter use slot"
Remove all stuns and graps from them.
Wild Medicine feat is really broken, you should make it non stackable and just 1% at level 5
This is my feedback.
cheers!
Yeah, let's take the dps from a dps class. But no, HR's can also go survival so let's also remove the feat we got for healing, cause I want them to die facing anything. Oh wait, HR's got CC, that can't happen, let's also remove that..... Meh, just erase the class, right?
HR's damage is insane. You should tone all it down around 50% (all encounters, at-wills and dailies) cause not other class can face them.
This is the only class which 6 encounter powers, so, you should rise the cooldon on encounters around 20% on "encounter use slot"
Remove all stuns and graps from them.
Wild Medicine feat is really broken, you should make it non stackable and just 1% at level 5
This is my feedback.
cheers!
its trolling cause non gwf players come to talk in his gwf feedback thread....just skip it
HR is best pvp class is the game, being able to dodge everything and regen more than anyone, with very high dps and then being able to go stealth I don't think you need anything else.
You don't actually play one, do you?
Mod 4:
Archery path has DPS but no healing.
Combat path has healing but no DPS.
Trapper path has CC but no healing and very little DPS.
grimslawMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 43
edited July 2014
I tried doing the op wild medicine build. the damage was so low, I do not see how anyone would die to the hr. unless the hr severely out gears the other player. this using the fallen dragon blade which has the highest Dmg. Which is like 503. My gf even has a high base wep Dmg and it's suppose tank. only thing hr going to be good for is node contester. Melee is worthless in pve , and is even more so in mod 4
I tried doing the op wild medicine build. the damage was so low, I do not see how anyone would die to the hr. unless the hr severely out gears the other player. this using the fallen dragon blade which has the highest Dmg. Which is like 503. My gf even has a high base wep Dmg and it's suppose tank. only thing hr going to be good for is node contester. Melee is worthless in pve , and is even more so in mod 4
I agree with u.
After the split shot nerf, HR cant survive cant do damage and no cc. So no one want HR in dungeon run.
Btw, is NW mainly pve or pvp? For those who think HR is op in pvp, please just ask to change feats for pvp.
Archery path has DPS but no healing.
Combat path has healing but no DPS.
Trapper path has CC but no healing and very little DPS.
In other words, you could no be more wrong.
Yes I have played HR to lvl 60 full pvp gear and good items. Also I was again reply to the people complaining about the nerf because atm HR is way overpowered and you may like being able to win a 5v1 but its not fun for the other 5 players so a little nerf was needed and you will still be better than most classes in mod 4 anyway just hopefully not a god class anymore.
Can you tell me, how can i win lets say- pvp domination if i can't even stand on point with HR becouse if i stay on point it will end like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZqxVS644to&list=UU6pITPdId76QP4gNClaZ7FQ
i have CW...fight with HR is just usueless becouse they heal more hp than i can inflict damage to them. Number of stuns that they have for CW it is just joke, they have much more control than me. Helo it is distance class! Why distance Class is tanky like GWF or even much than GWFs are?
Fluid Hunter: While in Melee you gain 1/2/3/4/5% more Deflect Rating.
the deflection granted by the rate it's not worth the investment of this feat, it would be better if it grant 5% of deflect (like the old feat) instead of the rating
Can you tell me, how can i win lets say- pvp domination if i can't even stand on point with HR becouse if i stay on point it will end like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZqxVS644to&list=UU6pITPdId76QP4gNClaZ7FQ
i have CW...fight with HR is just usueless becouse they heal more hp than i can inflict damage to them. Number of stuns that they have for CW it is just joke, they have much more control than me. Helo it is distance class! Why distance Class is tanky like GWF or even much than GWFs are?
HR's damage is insane. You should tone all it down around 50% (all encounters, at-wills and dailies) cause not other class can face them.
This is the only class which 6 encounter powers, so, you should rise the cooldon on encounters around 20% on "encounter use slot"
Remove all stuns and graps from them.
Wild Medicine feat is really broken, you should make it non stackable and just 1% at level 5
This is my feedback.
cheers!
REALLY? non sense comment... this way they can erase the class.
Thorn Ward has an 100% uptime in M4 and there's no point to even fight versus someone if you're not gonna stand on the node.
The problem is you cannot fight an hr over a node because they are able to completely cover a node that is always up and you have a small window to attack when the thorn ward goes down and even then that is impossible to do as they are already aware that you will try to cc them. If thorn ward can have its diameter reduced or a fix to the switching from range to melee cuts the cooldown time and this problem of thorn ward always being up goes away.
and there is my question- How can i fight against HR on Domination match if i even can't stay on point becouse for me it is quick death, anyway CW vs HR it is always CW (maby not always quick) Death.- how can CW help his team against HR? This is a very biased game and favorite is 1- HR. Where is balance?
You will not get balance until they fix the tankiness of the HR. The damage is fine. Fix the HAMSTER deflection and heals and CWs at least could have a go at it.
You will not get balance until they fix the tankiness of the HR. The damage is fine. Fix the HAMSTER deflection and heals and CWs at least could have a go at it.
Ok let me get this stright Cw who is dominating pve BIGTIME wants to get rid of the tankiness of the hrs so the with their superior ccs and dam can kill them at their lesure?
Try contest against a perma tr or a gwf and you see how you fair with cws contesting nodes am sure you find the experiance humbling to say the least.
Now on test 10 % deflection gone from meele
Armor healing nerfed with a timer on proc and corrected to have healing debuff in pvp
Consticted arrows 3 stun effect gone and replaced with a 1 sec snare in pvp
Pahts remade to 1 pure archery (got some buffs no effective cc no healing) one full melee with gimped dam no cc and no cc escape and a trapper path with some ccs pathetic dam and no healing.
I can see why you think dam is fine as if they dont go archery path it will be less then half of cws whith no cc escape and almost no healing unless meele build that already have your so called *fine dam.
I just woundering if there is one of you qqers that actually have an active brain and understands that all this talk about to much healing/deflection etc is something that they are changing and this is a test server with a full makeover of the HR class.
But hell yea take away the healing gimp the dam and make sure they dont have any ccs or any way to escape ccs and you have one seriously good punching bag in pvp and a broken pve torch holder ....
But hell yea take away the healing gimp the dam and make sure they dont have any ccs or any way to escape ccs and you have one seriously good punching bag in pvp
This is the life of a DC your talking about.
Papa Smurf / Uncle Ben --DC
Santa Claus --GF
Gargamel --CW
Sure just that we dont get pve groups, we dont have debuffs, we cant heal group members for shiat, we dont have shields for party but beside that woopiiidoo great future :-).
So, stop QQ ing and face you deal so much damage and have an insane healing regen cap plus really good stuns and, above this
all, 6 encounters which deal a lot of damage. These points MUST be nerfed for the sake of balance.
You must have serious reading problems as you cant even read what is written in same thread.
Healing that is getting nerfed - stuns that are removed - 6 encounter that do really good dam ?? can you enlighten me how to put 6 encounters that all do good dam at same time I would really know what i missed......
You obviously are utterly clueless to the changes here on test and havent read anything about the changes that is incomming and still you yap around like a know it all- another amazing player .......
Can you at least have the common sence to stay on live with your comments so they make any sence at all mkay .....
Comments
This is a feedback thread about hr changes and yet 90% of the post seem to be from gwfs that feel the need to by all means necessary invade every single forum as soon as they see something that can threaten their domination in this game.
There is no end to the trolling from gwfs and it really makes me wounder if its not mostly the same personalities that chose to play a fotm class and yet somehow pretend they are far far from the best. Its always seem to be some other class that can do everthing they can do better and that everybody that cant handle them in pvp just lack skill/knowladge - amazing.....
Hr as it stands now (am sure the gwfs loudly crying and endless qqing will manage to not only give them back if not all but most of any changes the devs made to make them less op but also take away anything remotly good for hrs. With last changes most of the nerf of unstoppable is gone and with 30% dr and cc immunity + 40% less stam drain they prolly are an even greater pain in pvp, all that remains for them now is to get 1 or 2 knock down back just lol) are ok in pve with archery path but without any cc and with a serious lack in defence that path is dead in the water in pvp.
The meele path can be valid in pvp if the nerfing dont continue and they get some buff in dam as they hit like wet nudles right now.
The trapper path is actually very fun to play but lack the dam and the survivability to be effective in either pvp or pve.
Almost every single qq thread about the survivabilty is before they nerf armor and change wild medicine as and about every single comment about the dam is from people standing still letting a fully archery path hr shoot at them.
I see alot of comment from gwfs telling peeps to gtfo from their thread if they write anything negative about gwfs but they sure dont seem to feel the same visiting other classes threads......
I don't even have a gwf char....I play gf as my main and we are getting buffs so I'm not complaining about that, I was replying to say that HR don't need anything like CC immunity because the HR class is already the best class in pvp, all the other 4 classes dont stand a chance against HR with equal gear and skill because in pvp the HR is best at everything.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, speaking mainly about the Trapper tree, the addition of damage doesn't counter balance the real lack of CC on the strong grasping roots powers. I know it says that they now last 5 seconds (PvE), but most of the time the mobs actually get out of it sooner. I like that constricting became a roots power, but the AoE feels too small. Since the actual CC feels like it only works half the time, adding some more damage to thorns would be a nice boost an perhaps make it more viable. Regardless, this tree seems the most challenging to master, so I'm going to be playing it in PvE. I think I'd just feel more useful if I had more damage output, even after Serpent buffs which I tend to keep up most of the time.
Heather - Ranger
James - Paladin
Jet - Warlock
Royal - Cleric
Gray - Rogue
Red - Wizard
Ios - Barbarian
Was the best would be more accurate and no gwf was still better overall as they could kill faster and 2 gwfs had better synergy then 2 hr as they could chain cc kill anything that moved crawled flew or borrowed in 3 sec flat.
As they are nerfing the heal from the armor and removing speed boost and deflection boost from meele path + remaking encounters, powers and pathts why do you even bother to compare what is now and what is to come.
How do you know with the changes to gf cw and gwfs that hrs dont need any cc what so ever as they have no way getting out of ccs.
Try to take a deep breath wait until they say that changes are going live mkay..
Right now we dont know what will happend and they nerfed dam in archery path in next update am sure with the never ending qqing about things that actually not even happend hrs will come out just as you want and become even more useless in pve and have the option to do some dam in pvp with little survivabilty or have some surviability in pvp and do no dam - happy now ?
Make the self heals of the hr work as intended so it is not half the hp bar in a few seconds.
Do you even read the updates from the devs ??
Newsflash they put a timer on armor proc of 2 sec and healing debuff(as is should have) lowering the proc chanse when you deflect from 75% chanse to 50% making it more or less HAMSTER compared to now. And it will not proc of dots etc.
Wild medicine is down to 10 stacks and with the removal of deflect feat in meele 30% deflect is about what you can have now meaning that you will need an avarage of at leat 30 hits to get to 10 stacks. But trust me it will be down to 5 or less stacks once you qq enough.
BUT this WAS on live and that is history now with new paths.
ARCHERY CAN NOT HAVE WILD MEDICINE and do high dam-no cc - no way to escape cc
MEELE DONT HAVE HIGH DAM and with nerf to armor + inc nerfs to wild medicine I cant see they becomming much of a threat in pvp and utterly useless in pve.
TRAPPER HAVE **** FOR DAM AND **** FOR SURVIVABILITY fun as hell to play though
You still talk about survivabilty before the changes has taken place tell me how much more will you qq about things of the past before you even try to understand that changes are incomming ... jeeeeeeeeeeez this is getting redicules .............
Please revisit these paths and take all feedback into consideration aside from only complaints about how overpowered an HR is currentally on live, because live will change come MOD 4.
Yeah, let's take the dps from a dps class. But no, HR's can also go survival so let's also remove the feat we got for healing, cause I want them to die facing anything. Oh wait, HR's got CC, that can't happen, let's also remove that..... Meh, just erase the class, right?
HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
SW Soulbinder Fury
its trolling cause non gwf players come to talk in his gwf feedback thread....just skip it
Mod 4:
Archery path has DPS but no healing.
Combat path has healing but no DPS.
Trapper path has CC but no healing and very little DPS.
In other words, you could no be more wrong.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I agree with u.
After the split shot nerf, HR cant survive cant do damage and no cc. So no one want HR in dungeon run.
Btw, is NW mainly pve or pvp? For those who think HR is op in pvp, please just ask to change feats for pvp.
Yes I have played HR to lvl 60 full pvp gear and good items. Also I was again reply to the people complaining about the nerf because atm HR is way overpowered and you may like being able to win a 5v1 but its not fun for the other 5 players so a little nerf was needed and you will still be better than most classes in mod 4 anyway just hopefully not a god class anymore.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
i have CW...fight with HR is just usueless becouse they heal more hp than i can inflict damage to them. Number of stuns that they have for CW it is just joke, they have much more control than me. Helo it is distance class! Why distance Class is tanky like GWF or even much than GWFs are?
Fluid Hunter: While in Melee you gain 1/2/3/4/5% more Deflect Rating.
the deflection granted by the rate it's not worth the investment of this feat, it would be better if it grant 5% of deflect (like the old feat) instead of the rating
Only a very bad CW would stand on thorn ward.
HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
SW Soulbinder Fury
REALLY? non sense comment... this way they can erase the class.
Thorn Ward has an 100% uptime in M4 and there's no point to even fight versus someone if you're not gonna stand on the node.
The problem is you cannot fight an hr over a node because they are able to completely cover a node that is always up and you have a small window to attack when the thorn ward goes down and even then that is impossible to do as they are already aware that you will try to cc them. If thorn ward can have its diameter reduced or a fix to the switching from range to melee cuts the cooldown time and this problem of thorn ward always being up goes away.
Ok let me get this stright Cw who is dominating pve BIGTIME wants to get rid of the tankiness of the hrs so the with their superior ccs and dam can kill them at their lesure?
Try contest against a perma tr or a gwf and you see how you fair with cws contesting nodes am sure you find the experiance humbling to say the least.
Now on test 10 % deflection gone from meele
Armor healing nerfed with a timer on proc and corrected to have healing debuff in pvp
Consticted arrows 3 stun effect gone and replaced with a 1 sec snare in pvp
Pahts remade to 1 pure archery (got some buffs no effective cc no healing) one full melee with gimped dam no cc and no cc escape and a trapper path with some ccs pathetic dam and no healing.
I can see why you think dam is fine as if they dont go archery path it will be less then half of cws whith no cc escape and almost no healing unless meele build that already have your so called *fine dam.
I just woundering if there is one of you qqers that actually have an active brain and understands that all this talk about to much healing/deflection etc is something that they are changing and this is a test server with a full makeover of the HR class.
But hell yea take away the healing gimp the dam and make sure they dont have any ccs or any way to escape ccs and you have one seriously good punching bag in pvp and a broken pve torch holder ....
This is the life of a DC your talking about.
Santa Claus --GF
Gargamel --CW
You must have serious reading problems as you cant even read what is written in same thread.
Healing that is getting nerfed - stuns that are removed - 6 encounter that do really good dam ?? can you enlighten me how to put 6 encounters that all do good dam at same time I would really know what i missed......
You obviously are utterly clueless to the changes here on test and havent read anything about the changes that is incomming and still you yap around like a know it all- another amazing player .......
Can you at least have the common sence to stay on live with your comments so they make any sence at all mkay .....