yeah thats a good idea but that wont happen, HR and TR can get 40% deflect chance with low deflect and gwf can get 50% or more but you show me 1 gf with 40% deflect....we have the shield we should have more base defence and deflect than anyone but for some reason the "tank" class has the second worst survivability lol
Stat changes: STR = damage (1%) / Stamina Gain (2%)
CON = HP (4%) /ARP (1%)
DEX = Deflect (1%) /Crit (.5%)
RECKLESS ATTACKER: *REWORKED* Increases damage by 25% for 6 seconds after dealing a critical strike.
Stamina/Guard: Base duration DOUBLED.
Only drains WHILE IN COMBAT.
Recharge speed base DOUBLED.
Now that block is only 80%, I think its only fair to have it have much more an "uptime" than previously. Think of how many times TRs use stealth, or CWs use Spell Mastery, or GWFs use Unstoppable - MANY times per fight. GFs are the only one who once block is used, have to wait almost 15 seconds for full block again, thats WAY too long IMO.
I think these MINOR changes, would make the GF a GOOD player to have in both PVP and PVE.
BOOM! GFs just got about 5-7% more deflect from my suggestion (depending on DEX roll).
Oh whats that? GFs have the LOWEST crit chance in the game? BOOM! DEX gives Crit... GFs just got about 5-7% more crit depending on DEX roll....
One of the biggest problems with GFs has always been slow attacks+low weapon damage = no good weapon enchants.
Giving GFs a LITTLE bit more crit makes vorpal atleast one decent enchantment available for use.
Giving them more deflect helps the tankiness outside of block (and now inside as I ASSUME you can deflect the 20% damage NOT absorbed by block)
I really think just those three changes above:
STATS/Reckless/Block
Would make both offensive and defensive GFs really be formidable foes.... Id REALLY like to see it on the PTR.
My initial comments I'd like to make are on the first two tiers of GF feats.
Strength Focus:
No noticeable improvements on the character sheet. Does this feat do anything? No character sheet information related to strength was changed before and after speccing this feat.
Armor Specialization:
No noticeable improvements on the character sheet. Does this feat do anything? I checked, my defense before speccing this feat was 4220. afterwards was still 4220. Damage resist stayed the same at 47% as well. Armor class also was unchanged at 22 with +11% Damage resist before and after speccing these points.
If one applies Knight's challenge to a target and blocks the incoming damage, the 20% incoming leftover damage is turned into 40% damage and really ruins the entire knight's challenge skill. I'd like to see it restored to it's old value (100% damage resistance until the guard is actually broken) because taking this much of a damage while guarding is quite gamebreaking.
i like the direction this is taking, the ideas that some peolple throw are very good
i like the idea of gf, taking some damage while guarding, but i would like to see that damage mitigation rise a bit, (may be 90??) and also i think they will need also better stamina regeneration (may be they can get 2% instead of 1) or make them deplete slower?
also, something i alwas wanted to see in a gf are faster at wills (the normal version, not the guarded versions of them), they are too slow kind of hard to land, i would say make it to be almost as fast as Tr Sly flourish and the (not threatening rush, that works ok)
Suggestion: If our guard is only giving us 80% DR, please consider buffing guarded assault to at least 10%-15%. speaking of which if we are only doing 80% wont that effect the original 3% reflected back considering 20% is now bypassing shield.
SUGGESTION: give us back our 100% block mechanic or give us a good explanation as to why it was lowered to 80%
maybe give GFs infinite guard and put on stamina 2 dodges?
You know, I wouldnt be against this at all...
If block was "tab" and was toggled, so press tab once to activate block - infinite duration, slow movement, only at wills available, but then toggle it "off" and maybe it has a "recharge" or something before you can toggle it again. So basically you can hold it up forever (at the 80%) so its not like a total troll since youll still take damage.
Then IMO I think sprint like GWF have would be more fair... THAT would be pretty fun actually.
Perma block on tab @ 80%. Maybe a 3 second "recharge" on being able to block once your out of block...
Sprint on stamina for mobility.
None of this will ever happen though as it seems to me they arent really looking for feedback
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stagger38Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
Suggestion: If our guard is only giving us 80% DR, please consider buffing guarded assault to at least 10%-15%. speaking of which if we are only doing 80% wont that effect the original 3% reflected back considering 20% is now bypassing shield.
SUGGESTION: give us back our 100% block mechanic or give us a good explanation as to why it was lowered to 80%
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this was partly due to a fear of botting. Making the GF reasonably tanky could ultimately make them unkillable in certain situations. Running through dungeons with multiple GF might be slow, but time wouldn't be a factor.
Also, they have had poor experiences with tanky characters in champions online.
That said, I'm still not happy with the GF changes. Block and mark remain worse than other class mechanics. Defense diminishing returns are too severe, and it's too difficult to get other stats. Capstone feats are not very impressive. Party utility is compromised by other classes fulfilling our role, on top of their own.
I have re-formulated my suggestions now here, I actually really like these changes now - which are not much....
Stat changes: STR = damage (1%) / Stamina Gain (2%)
CON = HP (4%) /ARP (1%)
DEX = Deflect (1%) /Crit (.5%)
RECKLESS ATTACKER: *REWORKED* Increases damage by 30% for 8 seconds after dealing a critical strike.more inline with PnP feat, and combined with Dex changes makes this more plausible.
Stamina/Guard:
The ONLY change: *Block can be held indefinitely after block meter diminishes. It will only start re-charging once block is "let go".
*Confirming Block will allow for deflects and will not be ignored by things that ignore DR (like SE).
Now that block is only 80%, I think its only fair to have it have much more an "uptime" than previously. Think of how many times TRs use stealth, or CWs use Spell Mastery, or GWFs use Unstoppable - MANY times per fight. GFs are the only one who once block is used, have to wait almost 15 seconds for full block again, thats WAY too long IMO.
* Just tested on PTR, completely using block/stamina meter fully takes about 3-4 seconds (depending on how you count) for there to be enough block meter to press block again. (BTW this is feated/booned for stamina regen)
So being able to hold block indefinitely, as soon as you let it down, or are forced out of it, you have a minimum of about 4 seconds to attack before block is ready again.
Feedback
As i guess with the block it happened... The block is in over 80% of the time useless for me as Protector. While on live server i can handle a berserker easy without ever running out of 'you can't use your block', on PTS im most time out of it. Not bad, but useless due less AP generation - less blocked damage - and less damage done - i can't use Aggraving Strike as i want -. While one berserker is an easy kill on live - it only consume time - running on nearly half of my health with the +6k con change on PTS is just a huge step backwards. The whole theme of stamina block is nearly useless for me as protector. Increased block duration won't help me to have up my shield 90% of the time i WANT it to use my strongest at-will - the stab at-will while blocking. Does this matter? YES! As protector i can use a feat, that increase its damage! And with the stamina one i can't use it so many times as i do before. Negate the effect of the feat - bad!
So what do a protector have as advantage over the better conquerer path? +5% Deflect chance - oh not if he want it too! +5 AC - oh no second he can get! Or for the feat with KV. That's +5% DR, but for that i have to slot one encounter, that isn't useful all the time. So the conclusion is: The protector offer NO, really NO additionally Damage resistance, which the other path aren't able to get! The capstone and some feats need an improvement to be really the 'These feats are focused on defense and maintaining foe attention.'!
Some suggest it right: Plate Agility need double value. Same on Shield Defense.
So Shieldmaster:How much your Guard meter is consumed is reduced by 2/4/6/8/10%.
can use an additional effect. Guarded Assault reflect additional +1/2/3/4/5%.
While Guarded Assault base reflect is increased to 4/7/10%.
Protector capstone must get the additional effect of 'Increases the effectiveness of your Defense stat by 20%' like the sentinel path of GWF get. Then we will feel a difference to the other 2 path!
I'm not completely against the new block system, but it will simply not really work in a good way. Especially if you decide to make more and more different damage resources as you do like the 'corrupted ice damage' i receive from the berserker. Yes block mitigate 80% of it, but ONLY this part. Before it - completed block. Is enough? Yeah... So you will encounter big crit hits with OVER 58k impact! While it's only maybe +25% additional nonresistable damage, it's enough to make big impacts.
58000*0.2=11600. With factoring my ~59.3% DR it's only 4.72k. Okay not really bad.
But 58000*0.2*0.25=2900 on second part. All in all it's then about 7.6k which i had previosly blocked!
And such numbers may not the hightest reachable incs...
Currently the DR isn't factored in like you said:
Current % DR and here a blocked version:
I wanted to test the golems of GG/Open PVP, but there are no. They hit for more as this little guy do.
My problem with this block is hell not the damage that go through - a few say it's enough reduction - my problem AS PROTECTOR is that i can't use it infinite against a single mob! And increasing the duration won't help with that problem. I simply run out because of time... Doesn't matter that i refresh it with single Tide of Iron hits/Shield Slam...
Our shield can get weapon damage too. Like the OH of TR/HR get. 50% or even 30% of our sword is enough. Our shield is only defense and no weapon? FALSE thinking! Guarded Assault, VM, FLS, ET, TR, Tide of Iron and Shield Slam use ALL our shield as weapon. So why we don't have weapon damage on it? Second it will open more balance parameter, because it's increase the powers' damage with one parameter, so it won't affect in other way as it do by simple changing power damage itself.
I hope devs, that you will try out one suggestion from me to the block mechanic: Using the live block mechanic AND the PTS one. So im able as protector to hold my shield above, because it need several hits to destroy, but if it does, i have a litte bit time to avoid further hits by 80%. So while im above of 70%(or whatever) 'time' of the second part of my block i can back to the 'hitblock' by several ways.
Example: Blocking a mob group, my block break in first instance(hitblock), so the time run of my block - i can decide if i want to use this timeblock or i want to sink my block to recover it back to the hitblock. I decide me for letting it recover back and use Tide of Iron a few times and i get back to the blue area of my block(simply hitblock area - while the red area mean the time block rest). So im able to handle the group down to a single mob and use my 'infinite' hitblock against such one. Im as protector happy while stabing my opponent.
This system will option to have 'infinite' block against single targets and a time block option against a group gangbang. I hope really you can give feedback if it's possible to try out such a solution.
And for the suggestion the guard deplete after first hit in PvP: It's nearly useless. Okay it can work a bit against GWF, especially against GF, but DC/HR/CW will simple strike you with a weak ranged attack and your block run like no change was done. And if you change it so, that you need a few hits... simple take the live block mechanic, would do the same. Think again if it really would help. I guess not!
pls remove the 80% and give us back our 100% the guard meter depletes plenty fast enough with this silly new mechanic and there really is no reasonble possible way as to why a shield should not block all incoming damage, consider this every other class has now had their shift upgraded you are essential downgrading ours do you want all guardians to re roll to gwfs or hr's? devs i implore you to sign into the PTR and do a pvp match against some of the top rated players (crush get on your GF) and then maybe you will understand why this is not working you did it before mod 3 dropped get on the ptr and test this against us. except the challenge if you dare.
also if your doing this your going to need to rework these feats to compensate for it .
Action surge & shieldmaster(more than given) need a complete overhaul if this goes live also the block at wills do not seem to flow very smoothly with this new mechanic you can get about 1-3 shots in depending on the situation
BUG:
i have noticed that some DoT's, prones, and as has been said shocking and knives are going through the shield this is a huge problem that i cant fathom as WAI. on a side note also what should have been fixed a long time ago is vines going through shield.
also to the OP that isnt a bad suggestion everyone here seems to agree GF's need a dmg buff adding dmg to our shields may infact help this. our weapon dmg is abysmal to say the least lower even than a dc's.
I tested the changes on preview and I'm very disappointed: the guard last nothing and takes ages to recharge, and on top of that it blocks only 80% of incoming damage.
Suggestion: Raise block base duration to at least 5 seconds and reduce the recharge time to something more reasonable, maybe 7-8 seconds. Also make block reduce incoming damage by 90%
Bug: Damage reduction isn't calculated while blocking, I have 45% DR, I should block 89% of the incoming damage with my shield, but I olny block 80%
the purpose of this thread is to provide feedback to the devs based on actual play time on the preview shard. discussions are not to be had within this thread. please take your discussions and questions you may have on posters feedback here.
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Feedback
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I tested the changes on preview and I'm very disappointed: the guard last nothing and takes ages to recharge, and on top of that it blocks only 80% of incoming damage.
Suggestion: Raise block base duration to at least 5 seconds and reduce the recharge time to something more reasonable, maybe 7-8 seconds. Also make block reduce incoming damage by 90%
Bug: Damage reduction isn't calculated while blocking, I have 45% DR, I should block 89% of the incoming damage with my shield, but I olny block 80%
It's because there is a cap on DR, the max amount is 80%... I don't know if the changes were aimed to make our shield able to break that barrier or if we should only block the 80% of the damage...
Mr Crash . Instead of crippling the class with this Stamina based block you should let the live one as it is on Mod 4.On Pve the class will be crippled and on pvp it will become "EXTINCT". Not only gf class can be flanked but now you give one more advantage to gf's enemies and that is the weakness of the Gf to sustain his shield for as long as he wish as long as he is not taking any dmg . It's already way too easy for a class to break the current Block and kill us.The gf is the only class that should not work based on Stamina. This will be the death of our class ( not that it was alive before though) .I beg of you ,Just don't do it.
Strength: Now provides Stamina Regen rather than Guard Meter. Very bad idea, Guard Mater is ok
Constitution: Each point of Constitution increases max HP by 4% (up from 2%). Very good idea. This is probably only good change in this proposal
Powers
Block: Now consumes stamina while active. Reduces incoming damage by 80% while active. I don't know what to say... Don't change Shield mechanic, it's ok
Block: Now activates more quickly and has a .25 second cooldown after being released (down from .5 seconds) with current lags this is irrelevant
Mark: Now causes you to deal 200% (up from 100%) additional threat on Marked targets.
Mark: Mark will now taunt foes briefly as well as place the player at the top of the threat list. I don't see this on preview server
Mark: Marked targets now grant combat advantage to the Guardian's Allies. i think this is good idea but this nothing change for my dps GF
Enhanced Mark: Now grants 75% bonus threat per rank (up from 33%). i think this is good idea but this nothing change for my dps GF
Knight's Valor: Now transfer's 200% (up from 50%) of the threat allies deal to you. any body use this skill??
Enforced Threat: Can now hit up to 20 (up from 8) nearby targets. Good change but this mark only few enemy not 20 on preview
Iron Warrior: Now increases Stamina Regeneration by 50% while active rather than reducing damage Guard meter takes.
Iron Warrior: Base threat bonus increased to 200% (up from 150%).
Iron Warrior: This power now properly increases threat generation. Useless
Iron Vanguard: Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds. For GWF ok but for GF... this is nerf how can i move quickly?
Iron Vanguard: Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs. Don't mater for me, I'm PvE player
Generally you nerf the most under power class in this game. Congratulation. R.I.P. GF
If this:
Great Weapon Fighter: Threatening Rush: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Frontline Surge: This power now deals ~35% less damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Weaponmaster's Strike: This power now deals ~10% more damage.
Great Weapon Fighter: Flourish: This power now deals ~15% more damage and stuns for 3 seconds (2 seconds on players).
you apply also to GF that will be totally end for this class.
You do only one maybe two good change: Condition - HP and Enforced Threat up to 20 targets, but other changes... will kill this class.
My GF Conqueror need more dmg to be useful. Give more flexibility to this class. We have three way and this will be: dps, tank, support no all tank's.
In this moment I was force to play CW. I want back to my GF and I want to be useful on Dungeon. The effect of your changes will be party with DC and GWF maybe with some CW.
GF need better eq for DPS way. Need some Crit from Attributes. Need more dmg from basic skills like: Lunging Strike, Frontline Surge, Anvil of Doom, Bull Charge, Griffon Wrath. Offense skill's on GF need bust.
The Swormaster way is useless on GF because this is way on one target only and with current dungeon designed is not effective give in this some AoE in place of Flourish if you want improve this way.
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited June 2014
I would agree with a "better Tab" power i would gladly trade of my mark with something more usefull not just a bland damage increase.
Iron Warrior: Now increases Stamina Regeneration by 50% while active rather than reducing damage Guard meter takes.
FEEDBACK:
For this skill to flow smoothly with the new block mechanic it needs to have its cooldown reduced to at least 10 seconds down from 16 it seems to be very clunky at adjusting the stamina regeneration i dont know if this is working correctly, but please really consider lowering its cool down to coincide with the rate at which shield depletes thus this in no way would make it a must have skill, but more of a utility skill that you can choose or choose not to use more so than it is on live server.
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stagger38Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
edited June 2014
Cut lifesteal by half.
Dungeons suddenly harder and require actual strategy. GF is actually desirable (yep, did the impossible). Classes that had mostly relied on DPS to survive (CW, GWF) are not as effective.
Wow, it's almost like this single change would make the game substantially better... not saying it's perfect, but it's a better place to start balancing imo.
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epclipseingmoonMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
I think if the new block has to say we need to have fighters recovery to come with cc imunity like the gwfs unstoppable and no villians menance does not heal before someone comes in and says that. Its a daily for us not some tab power so this would be much more ballenced.
New shield system: The block system should stay the way it is now for a few reasons. The duration is very bad on the new block system and that will make all parts of the game way more of a struggle and our shield should block 100% of all dmg not just 80% because i have tested it and i am being hit with large numbers even though my shield and have found that just running/ dodging is actually more effective than even using the shield at all.
In pvp the new block will be so bad vs all players, we need to hold it in as long as we can like the system is now so we can fight perma rogues properly and we can stop players getting the jump on us. With the new system we will have to have our block lowered most of the time and we will always be vulnerable to attacks and controls.
The current block works fine i think it just needed a faster activation and to be stronger but i like all the other changes, the bonus hp and power changes will be good.
We say "NO" to the new Block . All those that insist that the new Block mech is good have "OBVIOUSLY" no clue about the disadvantages that it will bring to the class "NOT even mentioning that it will be GF'S downfall to the PITS."Let the Live block as it is but slight Boost it . The other changes are fine(except for the Prones nerf) but there is room for improvements .Patience is the key.
We got the most Useless class in the whole game . The new Block mech will make it even more useless.Stop this Crash or you are going to kill the GF community or what's left of it .
1) let the shield as is now in live, may be you can make it regen faster when depleted, make it a tab power (press tab for activate it, replace the mark).
2) give us the sprint like gwf sprint with shift key. We can sprint only with shield down.
New shield system: The block system should stay the way it is now for a few reasons. The duration is very bad on the new block system and that will make all parts of the game way more of a struggle and our shield should block 100% of all dmg not just 80% because i have tested it and i am being hit with large numbers even though my shield and have found that just running/ dodging is actually more effective than even using the shield at all.
In pvp the new block will be so bad vs all players, we need to hold it in as long as we can like the system is now so we can fight perma rogues properly and we can stop players getting the jump on us. With the new system we will have to have our block lowered most of the time and we will always be vulnerable to attacks and controls.
The current block works fine i think it just needed a faster activation and to be stronger but i like all the other changes, the bonus hp and power changes will be good.
FEEDBACK:
Yeah, and how gentlemancrush said, and I quote: "Old block functioned as a secondary HP bar that was calculated based on your maximum HP and feats" our guard meter would be getting a little buff (with CON changes), the only remaining problems with the old shield system IMO would be:
1- The delay of the guard meter regen have to be reduced (I don't know the exact number, but I feel like it starts to regen ~1.5-2 seconds after you receive an attack, it needs to be reduced).
2- Increase the regen ratio.
Optional: Make it impossible to lose more than 10% each .5 seconds, so no matter what, it would last for at least 5 seconds.
With the old system and with those changes I would be happy .
FEEDBACK:
Yeah, and how gentlemancrush said, and I quote: "Old block functioned as a secondary HP bar that was calculated based on your maximum HP and feats" our guard meter would be getting a little buff (with CON changes), the only remaining problems with the old shield system IMO would be:
1- The delay of the guard meter regen have to be reduced (I don't know the exact number, but I feel like it starts to regen ~1.5-2 seconds after you receive an attack, it needs to be reduced).
2- Increase the regen ratio.
Optional: Make it impossible to lose more than 10% each .5 seconds, so no matter what, it would last for at least 5 seconds.
With the old system and with those changes I would be happy .
Yes same, then our shields would actually be very useful but we do also need a new more improved tab skill i feel just to have as much options in battle like the other classes since our tab isn't very helpful.
1) let the shield as is now in live, may be you can make it regen faster when depleted, make it a tab power (press tab for activate it, replace the mark).
2) give us the sprint like gwf sprint with shift key. We can sprint only with shield down.
Ty for your support.
i absolutely agree with you.
GFs are the worst class in pvp already. in pve also anyone needs us.
at least give us some mobility.
if you are gonna give us stamina, it should be sprint.
Comments
RESPONSE:
BOOM! GFs just got about 5-7% more deflect from my suggestion (depending on DEX roll).
Oh whats that? GFs have the LOWEST crit chance in the game? BOOM! DEX gives Crit... GFs just got about 5-7% more crit depending on DEX roll....
One of the biggest problems with GFs has always been slow attacks+low weapon damage = no good weapon enchants.
Giving GFs a LITTLE bit more crit makes vorpal atleast one decent enchantment available for use.
Giving them more deflect helps the tankiness outside of block (and now inside as I ASSUME you can deflect the 20% damage NOT absorbed by block)
I really think just those three changes above:
STATS/Reckless/Block
Would make both offensive and defensive GFs really be formidable foes.... Id REALLY like to see it on the PTR.
Strength Focus:
No noticeable improvements on the character sheet. Does this feat do anything? No character sheet information related to strength was changed before and after speccing this feat.
Armor Specialization:
No noticeable improvements on the character sheet. Does this feat do anything? I checked, my defense before speccing this feat was 4220. afterwards was still 4220. Damage resist stayed the same at 47% as well. Armor class also was unchanged at 22 with +11% Damage resist before and after speccing these points.
If one applies Knight's challenge to a target and blocks the incoming damage, the 20% incoming leftover damage is turned into 40% damage and really ruins the entire knight's challenge skill. I'd like to see it restored to it's old value (100% damage resistance until the guard is actually broken) because taking this much of a damage while guarding is quite gamebreaking.
i like the idea of gf, taking some damage while guarding, but i would like to see that damage mitigation rise a bit, (may be 90??) and also i think they will need also better stamina regeneration (may be they can get 2% instead of 1) or make them deplete slower?
also, something i alwas wanted to see in a gf are faster at wills (the normal version, not the guarded versions of them), they are too slow
If our guard is only giving us 80% DR, please consider buffing guarded assault to at least 10%-15%. speaking of which if we are only doing 80% wont that effect the original 3% reflected back considering 20% is now bypassing shield.
SUGGESTION:
give us back our 100% block mechanic or give us a good explanation as to why it was lowered to 80%
You know, I wouldnt be against this at all...
If block was "tab" and was toggled, so press tab once to activate block - infinite duration, slow movement, only at wills available, but then toggle it "off" and maybe it has a "recharge" or something before you can toggle it again. So basically you can hold it up forever (at the 80%) so its not like a total troll since youll still take damage.
Then IMO I think sprint like GWF have would be more fair... THAT would be pretty fun actually.
Perma block on tab @ 80%. Maybe a 3 second "recharge" on being able to block once your out of block...
Sprint on stamina for mobility.
None of this will ever happen though as it seems to me they arent really looking for feedback
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this was partly due to a fear of botting. Making the GF reasonably tanky could ultimately make them unkillable in certain situations. Running through dungeons with multiple GF might be slow, but time wouldn't be a factor.
Also, they have had poor experiences with tanky characters in champions online.
That said, I'm still not happy with the GF changes. Block and mark remain worse than other class mechanics. Defense diminishing returns are too severe, and it's too difficult to get other stats. Capstone feats are not very impressive. Party utility is compromised by other classes fulfilling our role, on top of their own.
I have re-formulated my suggestions now here, I actually really like these changes now - which are not much....
Stat changes:
STR = damage (1%) / Stamina Gain (2%)
CON = HP (4%) /ARP (1%)
DEX = Deflect (1%) /Crit (.5%)
RECKLESS ATTACKER: *REWORKED* Increases damage by 30% for 8 seconds after dealing a critical strike. more inline with PnP feat, and combined with Dex changes makes this more plausible.
Stamina/Guard:
The ONLY change:
*Block can be held indefinitely after block meter diminishes. It will only start re-charging once block is "let go".
*Confirming Block will allow for deflects and will not be ignored by things that ignore DR (like SE).
Now that block is only 80%, I think its only fair to have it have much more an "uptime" than previously. Think of how many times TRs use stealth, or CWs use Spell Mastery, or GWFs use Unstoppable - MANY times per fight. GFs are the only one who once block is used, have to wait almost 15 seconds for full block again, thats WAY too long IMO.
So being able to hold block indefinitely, as soon as you let it down, or are forced out of it, you have a minimum of about 4 seconds to attack before block is ready again.
As i guess with the block it happened... The block is in over 80% of the time useless for me as Protector. While on live server i can handle a berserker easy without ever running out of 'you can't use your block', on PTS im most time out of it. Not bad, but useless due less AP generation - less blocked damage - and less damage done - i can't use Aggraving Strike as i want -. While one berserker is an easy kill on live - it only consume time - running on nearly half of my health with the +6k con change on PTS is just a huge step backwards. The whole theme of stamina block is nearly useless for me as protector. Increased block duration won't help me to have up my shield 90% of the time i WANT it to use my strongest at-will - the stab at-will while blocking. Does this matter? YES! As protector i can use a feat, that increase its damage! And with the stamina one i can't use it so many times as i do before. Negate the effect of the feat - bad!
So what do a protector have as advantage over the better conquerer path? +5% Deflect chance - oh not if he want it too! +5 AC - oh no second he can get! Or for the feat with KV. That's +5% DR, but for that i have to slot one encounter, that isn't useful all the time. So the conclusion is: The protector offer NO, really NO additionally Damage resistance, which the other path aren't able to get! The capstone and some feats need an improvement to be really the 'These feats are focused on defense and maintaining foe attention.'!
Some suggest it right: Plate Agility need double value. Same on Shield Defense.
So Shieldmaster:How much your Guard meter is consumed is reduced by 2/4/6/8/10%.
can use an additional effect. Guarded Assault reflect additional +1/2/3/4/5%.
While Guarded Assault base reflect is increased to 4/7/10%.
Protector capstone must get the additional effect of 'Increases the effectiveness of your Defense stat by 20%' like the sentinel path of GWF get. Then we will feel a difference to the other 2 path!
I'm not completely against the new block system, but it will simply not really work in a good way. Especially if you decide to make more and more different damage resources as you do like the 'corrupted ice damage' i receive from the berserker. Yes block mitigate 80% of it, but ONLY this part. Before it - completed block. Is enough? Yeah... So you will encounter big crit hits with OVER 58k impact! While it's only maybe +25% additional nonresistable damage, it's enough to make big impacts.
58000*0.2=11600. With factoring my ~59.3% DR it's only 4.72k. Okay not really bad.
But 58000*0.2*0.25=2900 on second part. All in all it's then about 7.6k which i had previosly blocked!
And such numbers may not the hightest reachable incs...
Currently the DR isn't factored in like you said:
Current % DR and here a blocked version:
I wanted to test the golems of GG/Open PVP, but there are no. They hit for more as this little guy do.
My problem with this block is hell not the damage that go through - a few say it's enough reduction - my problem AS PROTECTOR is that i can't use it infinite against a single mob! And increasing the duration won't help with that problem. I simply run out because of time... Doesn't matter that i refresh it with single Tide of Iron hits/Shield Slam...
Our shield can get weapon damage too. Like the OH of TR/HR get. 50% or even 30% of our sword is enough. Our shield is only defense and no weapon? FALSE thinking! Guarded Assault, VM, FLS, ET, TR, Tide of Iron and Shield Slam use ALL our shield as weapon. So why we don't have weapon damage on it? Second it will open more balance parameter, because it's increase the powers' damage with one parameter, so it won't affect in other way as it do by simple changing power damage itself.
I hope devs, that you will try out one suggestion from me to the block mechanic: Using the live block mechanic AND the PTS one. So im able as protector to hold my shield above, because it need several hits to destroy, but if it does, i have a litte bit time to avoid further hits by 80%. So while im above of 70%(or whatever) 'time' of the second part of my block i can back to the 'hitblock' by several ways.
Example: Blocking a mob group, my block break in first instance(hitblock), so the time run of my block - i can decide if i want to use this timeblock or i want to sink my block to recover it back to the hitblock. I decide me for letting it recover back and use Tide of Iron a few times and i get back to the blue area of my block(simply hitblock area - while the red area mean the time block rest). So im able to handle the group down to a single mob and use my 'infinite' hitblock against such one. Im as protector happy while stabing my opponent.
This system will option to have 'infinite' block against single targets and a time block option against a group gangbang. I hope really you can give feedback if it's possible to try out such a solution.
And for the suggestion the guard deplete after first hit in PvP: It's nearly useless. Okay it can work a bit against GWF, especially against GF, but DC/HR/CW will simple strike you with a weak ranged attack and your block run like no change was done. And if you change it so, that you need a few hits... simple take the live block mechanic, would do the same. Think again if it really would help. I guess not!
pls remove the 80% and give us back our 100% the guard meter depletes plenty fast enough with this silly new mechanic and there really is no reasonble possible way as to why a shield should not block all incoming damage, consider this every other class has now had their shift upgraded you are essential downgrading ours do you want all guardians to re roll to gwfs or hr's? devs i implore you to sign into the PTR and do a pvp match against some of the top rated players (crush get on your GF) and then maybe you will understand why this is not working you did it before mod 3 dropped get on the ptr and test this against us. except the challenge if you dare.
also if your doing this your going to need to rework these feats to compensate for it .
Action surge & shieldmaster(more than given) need a complete overhaul if this goes live also the block at wills do not seem to flow very smoothly with this new mechanic you can get about 1-3 shots in depending on the situation
BUG:
i have noticed that some DoT's, prones, and as has been said shocking and knives are going through the shield this is a huge problem that i cant fathom as WAI. on a side note also what should have been fixed a long time ago is vines going through shield.
also to the OP that isnt a bad suggestion everyone here seems to agree GF's need a dmg buff adding dmg to our shields may infact help this. our weapon dmg is abysmal to say the least lower even than a dc's.
Suggestion:
Raise block base duration to at least 5 seconds and reduce the recharge time to something more reasonable, maybe 7-8 seconds. Also make block reduce incoming damage by 90%
Bug:
Damage reduction isn't calculated while blocking, I have 45% DR, I should block 89% of the incoming damage with my shield, but I olny block 80%
Therefore: 80% block, 80% DR, 10-20% tenacity, and then deflect and then HP (I had 50k on mine). (All bfore arp).
10,000 damage goes to: 2000 dmg then to 400 dmg then to 320 dmg then to a chance at deflect. (Given all the right circumstances).
please use the requested format for posting feedback:
posting in blue without an obvious indication that your feedback is from the preview shard may get your feedback moved to the discussion area. also please stay on topic and refrain from comparing these changes with other classes.
It's because there is a cap on DR, the max amount is 80%... I don't know if the changes were aimed to make our shield able to break that barrier or if we should only block the 80% of the damage...
Generally you nerf the most under power class in this game. Congratulation. R.I.P. GF
If this:
you apply also to GF that will be totally end for this class.
You do only one maybe two good change: Condition - HP and Enforced Threat up to 20 targets, but other changes... will kill this class.
My GF Conqueror need more dmg to be useful. Give more flexibility to this class. We have three way and this will be: dps, tank, support no all tank's.
In this moment I was force to play CW. I want back to my GF and I want to be useful on Dungeon. The effect of your changes will be party with DC and GWF maybe with some CW.
GF need better eq for DPS way. Need some Crit from Attributes. Need more dmg from basic skills like: Lunging Strike, Frontline Surge, Anvil of Doom, Bull Charge, Griffon Wrath. Offense skill's on GF need bust.
The Swormaster way is useless on GF because this is way on one target only and with current dungeon designed is not effective give in this some AoE in place of Flourish if you want improve this way.
Utility so to speak
FEEDBACK:
For this skill to flow smoothly with the new block mechanic it needs to have its cooldown reduced to at least 10 seconds down from 16 it seems to be very clunky at adjusting the stamina regeneration i dont know if this is working correctly, but please really consider lowering its cool down to coincide with the rate at which shield depletes thus this in no way would make it a must have skill, but more of a utility skill that you can choose or choose not to use more so than it is on live server.
Dungeons suddenly harder and require actual strategy. GF is actually desirable (yep, did the impossible). Classes that had mostly relied on DPS to survive (CW, GWF) are not as effective.
Wow, it's almost like this single change would make the game substantially better... not saying it's perfect, but it's a better place to start balancing imo.
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
New shield system: The block system should stay the way it is now for a few reasons. The duration is very bad on the new block system and that will make all parts of the game way more of a struggle and our shield should block 100% of all dmg not just 80% because i have tested it and i am being hit with large numbers even though my shield and have found that just running/ dodging is actually more effective than even using the shield at all.
In pvp the new block will be so bad vs all players, we need to hold it in as long as we can like the system is now so we can fight perma rogues properly and we can stop players getting the jump on us. With the new system we will have to have our block lowered most of the time and we will always be vulnerable to attacks and controls.
The current block works fine i think it just needed a faster activation and to be stronger but i like all the other changes, the bonus hp and power changes will be good.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
We got the most Useless class in the whole game . The new Block mech will make it even more useless.Stop this Crash or you are going to kill the GF community or what's left of it .
My suggestion is:
1) let the shield as is now in live, may be you can make it regen faster when depleted, make it a tab power (press tab for activate it, replace the mark).
2) give us the sprint like gwf sprint with shift key. We can sprint only with shield down.
Ty for your support.
FEEDBACK:
Yeah, and how gentlemancrush said, and I quote: "Old block functioned as a secondary HP bar that was calculated based on your maximum HP and feats" our guard meter would be getting a little buff (with CON changes), the only remaining problems with the old shield system IMO would be:
1- The delay of the guard meter regen have to be reduced (I don't know the exact number, but I feel like it starts to regen ~1.5-2 seconds after you receive an attack, it needs to be reduced).
2- Increase the regen ratio.
Optional: Make it impossible to lose more than 10% each .5 seconds, so no matter what, it would last for at least 5 seconds.
With the old system and with those changes I would be happy
Yes same, then our shields would actually be very useful
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
i absolutely agree with you.
GFs are the worst class in pvp already. in pve also anyone needs us.
at least give us some mobility.
if you are gonna give us stamina, it should be sprint.
please help