Ahh so Binding Arrow will no longer apply the rubberbanding effect - good to know. I dunno, the damage portion of Binding Arrow still does more than Constricting Arrow and now that I'll be playing a pure Archer spec as opposed to Hybrid for dabbling in pvp I might just slot both abilities.
Well its not like you'd be using it anyway, with the changes coming to the HR it will be the return of the split shot spammers. Sad part is they'll think they're good too...
Well its not like you'd be using it anyway, with the changes coming to the HR it will be the return of the split shot spammers. Sad part is they'll think they're good too...
1) he will sure nerf split shot harder before the final patch.
2) i will never be an archery one. Boring, just damage buff and nothing else.
I don't think the GWF should have as much punch as the HR. They've got tools that allow them to facetank all CC, good chunks of damage, and have a decent few meter AOE CC.
Combat HRs are like TRs without the protection of stealth and long rolls. Their damages both seem to come up pretty short against GWF, though.
combat hr are far more powerful than trs right now and hr in pvp dominate in 1v1 and even against a gwf. You need to 2v1 a hr in pvp(most of the time). Also With all the i understand their set is being nerfed and so is wild medicine. But with 10 stacks of wild medicine they get 25% heal with heal depression. With ferocious reactive i get 5k heal with my 44k hp in pvp and it has a 3min cooldown. If hr are going to have so many heals then they should have low dps like the DC.
These changes are not even implemented and you complain already?
And combat hr with the new changes has literrally no dps. I am serious.
Switching to archery just feel the right thing to do ecen if boring
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
combat hr are far more powerful than trs right now and hr in pvp dominate in 1v1 and even against a gwf. You need to 2v1 a hr in pvp(most of the time). Also With all the i understand their set is being nerfed and so is wild medicine. But with 10 stacks of wild medicine they get 25% heal with heal depression. With ferocious reactive i get 5k heal with my 44k hp in pvp and it has a 3min cooldown. If hr are going to have so many heals then they should have low dps like the DC.
HRs lose their fixed 10% Damage bonus in Melee, so in 1 vs. 1, they only get a 5% Bonus when Combat Spec in the future. They also lose 10% Crit Rate, and 9% Deflect, which means, to you PvPers, 4.5% DR. Futhermore, if a Hybrid or Archer wants Medicine, they need to give up at least their Capstone Feat, or even more, since just giving up the capstone would only net you 1 Point in Medicine - Resulting in whopping 0.5% (or 10 Stacks, 5%) Healing. Awesome, and all that for giving up Predator/Biting Snare (which is a maintainable 15% Damage Boost in case of snare, and a 30% Boost in case of Predator).
I witnessed a very well equipped HR solo the Remorhaz this morning...
Wow!
Remo isn't a very good test for HR damage because it's a stationary target, meaning all of rain of arrows is going to hit which almost never happens in most fights.
The damage that really matters is in groups in dungeons.
I just hope you realize just how overpowered the archery tree is, and besides my hr which is currently void of any enchants could outperform yours.
Or maybe you think 2 feats giving straight up 60% damage bonus on a target is completely fine, then maybe you should go back to taking your medicine
60 % dam boost from a low starting number isent that much especially considering that 30 % of that is pure single target dam and a capstone whish means you have to sacrifice alot of survivability or control to get it.
You are clearly a cw with the aim of holding down hrs from compeating in any way.
Something I'm really having trouble grasping is that my 3k power, 13k gs hr can outperform my 17.6k 7.5k power cw, in literally... every... single... way...
As much redicules as false lets take 2 17+k cws and 2 13k hrs and duo pirate and see how well the hrs outperform the cws IN EVERY SINGLE WAY....
Honestly these nerf qqs are getting a bit tendius to say the least.
Try to run some dungeons with hrs and compare them to gwf-cws and then come back and claim how much you want to nerf the hrs.
With these changes your not going to see 3 hr groups with a gwf and a dc but you sure going to see 3 cw with a gwf and a dc.
Binding Arrow applies 'Strong Grasping Roots'.
Constricting Arrow (on Live) is its own effect, on Preview, it is an attack that applies an AoE 'Strong Grasping Roots'
So we do not get additional skills, but the effect applied by the Skills is being reworked (except Constricting, which got put in line with the rest of it).
My perhaps poorly made point was that on live we have one ranged ability that can apply Strong Grasping Roots, Binding Arrow. It can apply this to multiple targets if you line them up (I want to confirm whether this actually works on preview, I don't immediately recall Binding Arrow working on more than a single target). Now on preview we have two with Constricting Arrow being a proper AoE Strong Grasping Roots.
They're not the same but given a choice between single target with the possiblility of multi-target if you do it right vs AoE, Constricting Arrow is superior for me at least. The choice between the two perhaps becomes more about which melee skill is preferred. I'd have to check but I don't recall the damage difference between the two being that much, not enough for me to remember at least. I think they need to be differentiated further.
I just hope you realize just how overpowered the archery tree is, and besides my hr which is currently void of any enchants could outperform yours.
Or maybe you think 2 feats giving straight up 60% damage bonus on a target is completely fine, then maybe you should go back to taking your medicine
What about GWF? It took a straight damage increase of 65.5% + other specific powers getting a damage boost in order to be wanted in PvE again (after Deep Gash's unintended boost getting fixed). GWF always had pretty bad damage unless they were BiS beforehand, and even then a TR could outdamage them with similar gear. So, the argument of high damage from 2 feats that are far into the tree isn't valid by itself, you have to look at the class getting the boost and their capabilities without it. If without those damage boosts the class is still able to hold on decently well or only slightly lag behind, then it is too much and should be toned down. If with those damage boosts it outperforms every single class by a large margin, it needs to be toned down (the argument for GWF keeping it before was because of the insanely broken CW damage which is being attempted to fix at the moment, so both HR and GWF should be checked on this now). So, context is important with changes such as this. For example: lets give magicarp a +1000% damage boost to Splash, he's still useless as can be.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
I just hope you realize just how overpowered the archery tree is, and besides my hr which is currently void of any enchants could outperform yours.
Or maybe you think 2 feats giving straight up 60% damage bonus on a target is completely fine, then maybe you should go back to taking your medicine
I main both, both are about 13k, both compete equally right now. I don't get why they're giving HRs the buff of a lifetime and nerfing CWs into another DC. So what they can somewhat control, they're squishy as all hell. Nerfing singularity solved the biggest offending issue and is wasn't necessary to nerf so much more.
Highly unbalanced to turn HRs into tanking DPS gods. Even Destroyers will have a hard time competing, they don't get a crapload of feats that give ridiculous amounts of sustainability.
Highly unbalanced to turn HRs into tanking DPS gods. Even Destroyers will have a hard time competing, they don't get a crapload of feats that give ridiculous amounts of sustainability.
First of all pick one either dps or tank not both unless you come up with a way to get 50+points in feat tree...
Second of all I still cant see you doing dungeons with cw gwf and compare them to hrs whish i have and I cant say that hr is GODS compared in groups with those classes.
From what i can read between the lines its alot of fear what could happend more then what actually has happend from people playing other classes as mains............
Something I'm really having trouble grasping is that my 3k power, 13k gs hr can outperform my 17.6k 7.5k power cw, in literally... every... single... way...
When it comes to DPS, HRs better sure as hell outperform CWs or why the heck would you want one for a group when CWs bring great control?
That's all fine and dandy against bears but are people going to take an HR over a CW for a group if given the choice?
Ideally the choice should be do you want to bring an HR for more DPS or a CW for more control?
Testing on solo content isn't really helpful- I'm sure the devs have at least taken this stuff out for a test drive on solo stuff. What they're looking for most is testing on group content and PVP.
Honestly I don't know why you care so much- do you really think CWs aren't going to be wanted for groups? Why does it bother you so much if a pure dps/non-control range class does more damage?
Can you imagine an all HR party? It would be total chaos.
But it's easy to imagine an all CW party because we have those on live right now, and it still will be a viable way to do dungeons. God forbid if things go a little faster if you throw in an HR or two.
When it comes to DPS, HRs better sure as hell outperform CWs or why the heck would you want one for a group when CWs bring great control?
That's all fine and dandy against bears but are people going to take an HR over a CW for a group if given the choice?
Ideally the choice should be do you want to bring an HR for more DPS or a CW for more control?
Testing on solo content isn't really helpful- I'm sure the devs have at least taken this stuff out for a test drive on solo stuff. What they're looking for most is testing on group content and PVP.
Honestly I don't know why you care so much- do you really think CWs aren't going to be wanted for groups? Why does it bother you so much if a pure dps/non-control range class does more damage?
Can you imagine an all HR party? It would be total chaos.
But it's easy to imagine an all CW party because we have those on live right now, and it still will be a viable way to do dungeons. God forbid if things go a little faster if you throw in an HR or two.
With this comming patch not only do hunter rangers have better sustainability they also are capable of AoE cc like cw and now they have higher dps? The only thing cw have on them is arcane singularity which is getting nerfed and it is an AoE. While Hunter rangers have the strongest Daily in the game. Forest meditation.
I just hope you realize just how overpowered the archery tree is, and besides my hr which is currently void of any enchants could outperform yours.
Or maybe you think 2 feats giving straight up 60% damage bonus on a target is completely fine, then maybe you should go back to taking your medicine
I'm new to IWD. But how many bears are there usually in that encounter? If it's few, then yes the HR is going to do better because of how he is being built.
Go do the barbarian one and see how they compare. I'm quite sure the superior AoE of the CW will fair better.
Considering you still have that Hr vs 4CW video in your signature shows you're very bias. As that has been repeatedly proven to be set up to look at bad as possible.
The majority of our single target damage is Aim Shot. Rapid Shots is also useable. But for maximum effectiveness Aim Shot is to be used. And it comes with a lot of drawbacks. All a HR brings to a group is damage. And this is becoming even more true once the Nature tree is gone. If I can't regularly out preform an equal geared CW in a dungeon then why should the HR exist?
The 60% is fine. If anything should be looked at, the stacking power buff is it. Maybe shift 10% of it back into the "up to 10% based on range" feat. Turning it into 20% ranged, up to 20% ranged and 30% single target.
Don't get me wrong, I do expect us to be lightly OP. We are getting a lot of buffs. But you are making it sound like we just walk over and split shot dungeons to death with no help.
Devs, I don't understand how you came with those numbers....
Bottomless Quiver: 50% shorter CD from ranged encounters.
Unfliching Aim: deal +30% Damage from ranged powers (Dailies, Encounters and At-Will).
Rising Focus: give +5% Crti Severity and +5% Power for each crit (up to +15% Crit Severity and +15% Power).
Stillness of the Forest: Ranged Damage increased the farther you are from the target (max 10%), and +25% chance to crit if there's no one in 25 feet.
Predator: +30% Damage to 1 enemy for 20 seconds...
Seriously, I don't know who came with this idea while my GF have some feats that give 5 AC (2.5% DR), + 5% Deflect, +15% Damage with just 2 At-Wills or another that make 10% Damage Debuff to the foes that I hit after 5 times...
My suggestions:
Bottomless Quiver: 25% shorter CD from ranged encounters.
Unfliching Aim: deal +15% Damage from ranged powers (Dailies, Encounters and At-Will).
Rising Focus: give +2% Crti Severity and +2% Power for each crit (up to +10% Crit Severity and +10% Power).
Predator: +20% Damage to 1 enemy for 10 seconds with and ICD of 20 seconds...
Or if you make the HR class a DPS god, then make my GF a Tank god... seriously, with my HR I just see 5K crits like raining and 20K hits from Aimed Shot (not even being crit and without buffs), my HR make x5 the damage of my GF with any power and 3x times faster, while my GF is like 2x Tankier... (with life steal my HR refill his HP like there's no tomorrow and I don't even have 6% HP gain from hits) and for example, my Thorn Ward is dealing 5.2K Hits (crit), while I can do other stuff...
Bottomless Quiver: Currently we have a feat that reduces encounter CD's by .5 seconds on crit. These are overall working the same but favor geared players more than newer. All this change does is normalize it. Also it'll be 13.4s on a 20s cd. Not 10s. Just like how recovery works. 100% faster would be 10s.
Unflinching Aim: This is to separate us as archers. Overall our base damages are low. Our burst is weak. Our AoE is mostly limited to split shot. This is also to help us in fights where we can't be max range. Which is most of them.
Rising Focus: This one I can agree with. We're getting strong damage boosts. And a strong single target focus feat. Keep the Crit Severity. Remove the power stacks.
Predator: 30% is fine. Our single target is mostly linked to Aim Shot. If we use Rapid Shots our dps suffers about the 30% difference. Aim Shot takes a lot of proper positioning.
But definitely make it a shorter duration for PvP. I don't expect Archery HR's to be anything special in PvP as they will die very easily to put out any strong damage. Maybe in an organized math of 5v5 where they can have some protection I could see them being strong.
Far as GF's go. Are they not making them threat gods? Unless you mean PvP. In which case I would say the problem is armor pen.
Possible fix for that. Make it so you are not effected by armor pen while your shield is up. Or perhaps ignore half if that's too strong.
For damage in PvE, maybe an increase to Guarded Assault. Would make it a strong tool in trash at least. Then change it at bosses if needed.
With this comming patch not only do hunter rangers have better sustainability they also are capable of AoE cc like cw and now they have higher dps? The only thing cw have on them is arcane singularity which is getting nerfed and it is an AoE. While Hunter rangers have the strongest Daily in the game. Forest meditation.
How is the Aoe root from constricting arrow comparable to steal time, shard, singularity/oppressive force, icy terrain and COI?
I mean practically speaking, in a dungeon, how does a 5 cap aoe root help you organize mobs and clear them compared to a CW who can gather them and keep them stunned/slowed constantly?
In general, an HR is like an anti-control class with all the aggro that split shot gives.
Also, Archery is just as squishy as a CW- probably more so since we lack control and high-cap lifesteal hits.
People are still going to want CWs even if an HR does 50% more DPS. They're not doing close to that much difference though- in fact, in dungeon charts so far testing shows the damage to be roughly THE SAME.
Which to me is bad news for HR as far as getting groups in mod 4.
Just for once in my life I'd like to see someone actually ask for an HR in /lfg.
Bottomless Quiver: Currently we have a feat that reduces encounter CD's by .5 seconds on crit. These are overall working the same but favor geared players more than newer. All this change does is normalize it. Also it'll be 13.4s on a 20s cd. Not 10s. Just like how recovery works. 100% faster would be 10s.
I know, I have a 15K HR, but 50% is too much, my GF have a feat that reduce 2/4/6/8/10% CD, so my HR's feat is doing 5x my GF's feat...
Unflinching Aim: This is to separate us as archers. Overall our base damages are low. Our burst is weak. Our AoE is mostly limited to split shot. This is also to help us in fights where we can't be max range. Which is most of them.
You have good AoE with Split the Sky + SS, you can also add Seismic Shot (I met a HR who said he did 110K with this daily in the preview) and Rain of Arrow (is situational, but when you have many enemies together is very good).
Rising Focus: This one I can agree with. We're getting strong damage boosts. And a strong single target focus feat. Keep the Crit Severity. Remove the power stacks.
Predator: 30% is fine. Our single target is mostly linked to Aim Shot. If we use Rapid Shots our dps suffers about the 30% difference. Aim Shot takes a lot of proper positioning.
But definitely make it a shorter duration for PvP. I don't expect Archery HR's to be anything special in PvP as they will die very easily to put out any strong damage. Maybe in an organized math of 5v5 where they can have some protection I could see them being strong.
Seriously, +30% is fine?, before this we had 1 more crit every 20 seconds and I didn't heard many complaints, and now +30% is just fine?.
Far as GF's go. Are they not making them threat gods? Unless you mean PvP. In which case I would say the problem is armor pen.
Possible fix for that. Make it so you are not effected by armor pen while your shield is up. Or perhaps ignore half if that's too strong.
For damage in PvE, maybe an increase to Guarded Assault. Would make it a strong tool in trash at least. Then change it at bosses if needed.
I just did CN 4/4 with my 14.4K GF in the Preview server with 2 HR, 1 GWF and 1 CW (all of them were 16K) and I didn't feel like a Threat God at all, it was just like the current situation, and also, everyone outdps me by at least 4-5 times, and my GF was 2nd in immovable, also the 2 HRs outdps the GWF by at least 30% each one and 1 of them didn't even was full archery, he was hybrid!, (HRs had a really hard buff in their DPS, so now the gap between my HR and my GF DPS was greater, even more than before)... I'm not complaining for nothing, I have a 15K HR so I could just say "BUFF HR PLEASE", but I want a balanced party and more diversity, where every class can contribute at any lvl (from fresh 60 to the "High End content"), speacially TRs, and GFs (and DC are also excluded sometimes), because if it goes live like it is now in the preview forget... about seeing a GF or a TR in any dungeon...
I know, I have a 15K HR, but 50% is too much, my GF have a feat that reduce 2/4/6/8/10% CD, so my HR's feat is doing 5x my GF's feat, it's too much...
That's such a poor justification. By all means prove that the damage output, survivability or some other metric is too good because of reduced cooldowns gained from Bottomless Quiver. At least come up with something better or more evidence based than "my other class doesn't get that therefore it's too much".
I know, I have a 15K HR, but 50% is too much, my GF have a feat that reduce 2/4/6/8/10% CD, so my HR's feat is doing 5x my GF's feat...
Again, it's already based off a feat we have. It's just balanced better for all gear levels.
Also GF's reduces all encounter CD's by 10%. Ours focuses on Ranger stance. It's actually a problem I have with the upcoming changes for Archery and Combat. We overall gain little to nothing from the other stance. We become a class that never uses Tab. I don't feel this is OK. They should look at these buffs that are now going to be useless and rework them to make Tab useful. Archery at most will be using Throw Caution.
You have good AoE with Split the Sky + SS, you can also add Seismic Shot (I met a HR who said he did 110K with this daily in the preview) and Rain of Arrow (is situational, but when you have many enemies together is very good).
Split the Sky is borderline useless when you have enough CC/AoE to clear the trash mobs and only have up the big hitters who have delayed attacks that get avoided. It's a great opener. But it remains situational after that. But I spose in that case is when Rain of Arrows. So most fights we have 1 viable AoE encounter have SS. Seismic is also there, but I often save it for when I need to pull mobs off myself. Unless the group is doing a very good job keeping them off me(or I just don't deal enough damage for it to matter). But yes, it does do a lot of damage.
Not saying I have a problem with this. Overall I feel as though we are built to do strong sustained damage. But we have weak burst overall.
Well, at least we agree in something.
I agree with your agreeing to my agreeing.
Seriously, +30% is fine?, before this we had 1 more crit every 20 seconds and I didn't heard many complaints, and now +30% is just fine?.
If it is what it takes to separate us as strikers then yes it is fine.
I just did CN 4/4 with my 14.4K GF in the Preview server with 2 HR, 1 GWF and 1 CW (all of them were 16K) and I didn't feel like a Threat God at all, it was just like the current situation, and also, everyone outdps me by at least 4-5 times, and my GF was 2nd in immovable, also the 2 HRs outdps the GWF by at least 30% each one and 1 of them didn't even was full archery, he was hybrid!, (HRs had a really hard buff in their DPS, so now the gap between my HR and my GF DPS was greater, even more than before)... I'm not complaining for nothing, I have a 15K HR so I could just say "BUFF HR PLEASE", but I want a balanced party and more diversity, where every class can contribute at any lvl (from fresh 60 to the "High End content"), speacially TRs, and GFs (and DC are also excluded sometimes), because if it goes live like it is now in the preview forget... about seeing a GF or a TR in any dungeon...
This overall sounds about how it should be. Also what was the CW's damage? Aside from the fact that you were not #1 in immoveable. But some of that also comes down to the dungeon. At 16k the whole thing has to be quite easy for that group. I'm guessing the GWF did a lot of charging and pulling agro at the start with his burst AoE like they do now. Thus taking a lot of the early damage before the mobs were dead and you got there to pick them up.
Right now it's not rare for a CW to get 30%+ my damage at the same gear level. This is also often from them doing that most GWF's do. Run up and clear all the trash mobs. Padding numbers. When all the hunter brings is damage. What % is acceptable for them to be viable? Were you looking for 10-20% over the GWF? The guy that can tank, dps, self heal, cc, cc immune, strong mobility. Granted they're not supposed to be able to do all of this at once anymore. But what % of dps is reasonable over the GWF's that is acceptable? 30% sounds about right to me. Even if it just means a group will want one striker and the rest are GWF/CW's. It's still an improvement.
This is why that little X button is horrible for this game.
Far as GF's go. They shouldn't be high damage. But they should have the top threat and be the best class at making everyone else class more effective. And by doing this through tanking, threat and mob positioning. If a GF could group mobs as well as a CW they'd instantly become more viable. This wouldn't be stepping into the control line. This would be simply positioning.
Also TR changes are coming. I do wonder what they will hold. I suspect for PvE they will be equal to HR in single target damage, more burst, slightly less AoE. DC's I believe are getting more than a tooltip update as well.
Are we getting free respects for power and feats? or am I gonna have to delete my HR and start all over? Because I don't pay money to play this game so I don't come close to having enough AD for respects or zen at all.
I seriously don't want to start all over because getting boons takes forever!
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
FEEdback Hunter rangers heals make then tankier than a DC,gf and gwf. In pvp. It is like my hunter rangers always has emblem of seladin active. Pre-nerf.
Again with the whiny drivel. Wait until they have actually applied the patch that removes the infinite stacking and 'get stacks from just walking around' before you open your mouth again on this topic. This is going to be nerfed already, from overpowered infinite stacks to hardcapped 10 stacks.
i tried all trees and imo;
-Archery tree is nice but some overpowered for PVP, %30 bonus damage+%30 prey bonus damage for single target is some overpowered which means one shot HR. Because with the correct combination i hit about 65k to dummies
-Combat tree is nice again and i dont know if wild medicine needs nerf in stacking but i know that HR doesnt have any cc immüne abilities or skills. if you choose combat tree that means you should have some abilities for ignoring cc effects like unstoppable or impossible to catch or guarding abilities. if not then HR combat is some useless in PVE, however is usefull for PVP
-Trapper tree is very successfull and doesnt need anything. its very funny to play and not overpowered and forcing player to think more strategically especially while playing. its well balanced hybrid way to go.
Mid fox shift HR has cc immunity and damage immunity
after some testing on Mimic i have found that Electric Shot hits harder then 'medium' Split Shot which is where it is supposed to be. this allows you the choice of AoE Atwills. this i will note is a major change from LIVE where eshot pales to Split Shot even at the weakest level 'tapping'. it still will not 'peak' as high as split shot but the overall dps i think has been equalized. this should have been caught by the community the first time around. i at the time did not have the tools i have now to calculate dps and average overall damage.
Pretty sure we were saying electric shot still sucks. Nobody cared much because everyone was going to change to the new Paragon Pathfinder though.
If electric is as good as split (finally), that would be great.
u just nerfed gwf and buffed hr which was already op in pvp.
u giving them too many heals with damage bonus , which will totally disbalance the pvp, make them choose a tree between healing/tanky and damaging just like gwf paths.
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Well its not like you'd be using it anyway, with the changes coming to the HR it will be the return of the split shot spammers. Sad part is they'll think they're good too...
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
1) he will sure nerf split shot harder before the final patch.
2) i will never be an archery one. Boring, just damage buff and nothing else.
Combat 4ever
Wow!
And combat hr with the new changes has literrally no dps. I am serious.
Switching to archery just feel the right thing to do ecen if boring
HRs lose their fixed 10% Damage bonus in Melee, so in 1 vs. 1, they only get a 5% Bonus when Combat Spec in the future. They also lose 10% Crit Rate, and 9% Deflect, which means, to you PvPers, 4.5% DR. Futhermore, if a Hybrid or Archer wants Medicine, they need to give up at least their Capstone Feat, or even more, since just giving up the capstone would only net you 1 Point in Medicine - Resulting in whopping 0.5% (or 10 Stacks, 5%) Healing. Awesome, and all that for giving up Predator/Biting Snare (which is a maintainable 15% Damage Boost in case of snare, and a 30% Boost in case of Predator).
Remo isn't a very good test for HR damage because it's a stationary target, meaning all of rain of arrows is going to hit which almost never happens in most fights.
The damage that really matters is in groups in dungeons.
I just hope you realize just how overpowered the archery tree is, and besides my hr which is currently void of any enchants could outperform yours.
Or maybe you think 2 feats giving straight up 60% damage bonus on a target is completely fine, then maybe you should go back to taking your medicine
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
60 % dam boost from a low starting number isent that much especially considering that 30 % of that is pure single target dam and a capstone whish means you have to sacrifice alot of survivability or control to get it.
You are clearly a cw with the aim of holding down hrs from compeating in any way. As much redicules as false lets take 2 17+k cws and 2 13k hrs and duo pirate and see how well the hrs outperform the cws IN EVERY SINGLE WAY....
Honestly these nerf qqs are getting a bit tendius to say the least.
Try to run some dungeons with hrs and compare them to gwf-cws and then come back and claim how much you want to nerf the hrs.
With these changes your not going to see 3 hr groups with a gwf and a dc but you sure going to see 3 cw with a gwf and a dc.
My perhaps poorly made point was that on live we have one ranged ability that can apply Strong Grasping Roots, Binding Arrow. It can apply this to multiple targets if you line them up (I want to confirm whether this actually works on preview, I don't immediately recall Binding Arrow working on more than a single target). Now on preview we have two with Constricting Arrow being a proper AoE Strong Grasping Roots.
They're not the same but given a choice between single target with the possiblility of multi-target if you do it right vs AoE, Constricting Arrow is superior for me at least. The choice between the two perhaps becomes more about which melee skill is preferred. I'd have to check but I don't recall the damage difference between the two being that much, not enough for me to remember at least. I think they need to be differentiated further.
What about GWF? It took a straight damage increase of 65.5% + other specific powers getting a damage boost in order to be wanted in PvE again (after Deep Gash's unintended boost getting fixed). GWF always had pretty bad damage unless they were BiS beforehand, and even then a TR could outdamage them with similar gear. So, the argument of high damage from 2 feats that are far into the tree isn't valid by itself, you have to look at the class getting the boost and their capabilities without it. If without those damage boosts the class is still able to hold on decently well or only slightly lag behind, then it is too much and should be toned down. If with those damage boosts it outperforms every single class by a large margin, it needs to be toned down (the argument for GWF keeping it before was because of the insanely broken CW damage which is being attempted to fix at the moment, so both HR and GWF should be checked on this now). So, context is important with changes such as this. For example: lets give magicarp a +1000% damage boost to Splash, he's still useless as can be.
I main both, both are about 13k, both compete equally right now. I don't get why they're giving HRs the buff of a lifetime and nerfing CWs into another DC. So what they can somewhat control, they're squishy as all hell. Nerfing singularity solved the biggest offending issue and is wasn't necessary to nerf so much more.
Highly unbalanced to turn HRs into tanking DPS gods. Even Destroyers will have a hard time competing, they don't get a crapload of feats that give ridiculous amounts of sustainability.
First of all pick one either dps or tank not both unless you come up with a way to get 50+points in feat tree...
Second of all I still cant see you doing dungeons with cw gwf and compare them to hrs whish i have and I cant say that hr is GODS compared in groups with those classes.
From what i can read between the lines its alot of fear what could happend more then what actually has happend from people playing other classes as mains............
When it comes to DPS, HRs better sure as hell outperform CWs or why the heck would you want one for a group when CWs bring great control?
That's all fine and dandy against bears but are people going to take an HR over a CW for a group if given the choice?
Ideally the choice should be do you want to bring an HR for more DPS or a CW for more control?
Testing on solo content isn't really helpful- I'm sure the devs have at least taken this stuff out for a test drive on solo stuff. What they're looking for most is testing on group content and PVP.
Honestly I don't know why you care so much- do you really think CWs aren't going to be wanted for groups? Why does it bother you so much if a pure dps/non-control range class does more damage?
Can you imagine an all HR party? It would be total chaos.
But it's easy to imagine an all CW party because we have those on live right now, and it still will be a viable way to do dungeons. God forbid if things go a little faster if you throw in an HR or two.
With this comming patch not only do hunter rangers have better sustainability they also are capable of AoE cc like cw and now they have higher dps? The only thing cw have on them is arcane singularity which is getting nerfed and it is an AoE. While Hunter rangers have the strongest Daily in the game. Forest meditation.
I'm new to IWD. But how many bears are there usually in that encounter? If it's few, then yes the HR is going to do better because of how he is being built.
Go do the barbarian one and see how they compare. I'm quite sure the superior AoE of the CW will fair better.
Considering you still have that Hr vs 4CW video in your signature shows you're very bias. As that has been repeatedly proven to be set up to look at bad as possible.
The majority of our single target damage is Aim Shot. Rapid Shots is also useable. But for maximum effectiveness Aim Shot is to be used. And it comes with a lot of drawbacks. All a HR brings to a group is damage. And this is becoming even more true once the Nature tree is gone. If I can't regularly out preform an equal geared CW in a dungeon then why should the HR exist?
The 60% is fine. If anything should be looked at, the stacking power buff is it. Maybe shift 10% of it back into the "up to 10% based on range" feat. Turning it into 20% ranged, up to 20% ranged and 30% single target.
Don't get me wrong, I do expect us to be lightly OP. We are getting a lot of buffs. But you are making it sound like we just walk over and split shot dungeons to death with no help.
Bottomless Quiver: Currently we have a feat that reduces encounter CD's by .5 seconds on crit. These are overall working the same but favor geared players more than newer. All this change does is normalize it. Also it'll be 13.4s on a 20s cd. Not 10s. Just like how recovery works. 100% faster would be 10s.
Unflinching Aim: This is to separate us as archers. Overall our base damages are low. Our burst is weak. Our AoE is mostly limited to split shot. This is also to help us in fights where we can't be max range. Which is most of them.
Rising Focus: This one I can agree with. We're getting strong damage boosts. And a strong single target focus feat. Keep the Crit Severity. Remove the power stacks.
Predator: 30% is fine. Our single target is mostly linked to Aim Shot. If we use Rapid Shots our dps suffers about the 30% difference. Aim Shot takes a lot of proper positioning.
But definitely make it a shorter duration for PvP. I don't expect Archery HR's to be anything special in PvP as they will die very easily to put out any strong damage. Maybe in an organized math of 5v5 where they can have some protection I could see them being strong.
Far as GF's go. Are they not making them threat gods? Unless you mean PvP. In which case I would say the problem is armor pen.
Possible fix for that. Make it so you are not effected by armor pen while your shield is up. Or perhaps ignore half if that's too strong.
For damage in PvE, maybe an increase to Guarded Assault. Would make it a strong tool in trash at least. Then change it at bosses if needed.
How is the Aoe root from constricting arrow comparable to steal time, shard, singularity/oppressive force, icy terrain and COI?
I mean practically speaking, in a dungeon, how does a 5 cap aoe root help you organize mobs and clear them compared to a CW who can gather them and keep them stunned/slowed constantly?
In general, an HR is like an anti-control class with all the aggro that split shot gives.
Also, Archery is just as squishy as a CW- probably more so since we lack control and high-cap lifesteal hits.
People are still going to want CWs even if an HR does 50% more DPS. They're not doing close to that much difference though- in fact, in dungeon charts so far testing shows the damage to be roughly THE SAME.
Which to me is bad news for HR as far as getting groups in mod 4.
Just for once in my life I'd like to see someone actually ask for an HR in /lfg.
I know, I have a 15K HR, but 50% is too much, my GF have a feat that reduce 2/4/6/8/10% CD, so my HR's feat is doing 5x my GF's feat...
You have good AoE with Split the Sky + SS, you can also add Seismic Shot (I met a HR who said he did 110K with this daily in the preview) and Rain of Arrow (is situational, but when you have many enemies together is very good).
Well, at least we agree in something.
Seriously, +30% is fine?, before this we had 1 more crit every 20 seconds and I didn't heard many complaints, and now +30% is just fine?.
I just did CN 4/4 with my 14.4K GF in the Preview server with 2 HR, 1 GWF and 1 CW (all of them were 16K) and I didn't feel like a Threat God at all, it was just like the current situation, and also, everyone outdps me by at least 4-5 times, and my GF was 2nd in immovable, also the 2 HRs outdps the GWF by at least 30% each one and 1 of them didn't even was full archery, he was hybrid!, (HRs had a really hard buff in their DPS, so now the gap between my HR and my GF DPS was greater, even more than before)... I'm not complaining for nothing, I have a 15K HR so I could just say "BUFF HR PLEASE", but I want a balanced party and more diversity, where every class can contribute at any lvl (from fresh 60 to the "High End content"), speacially TRs, and GFs (and DC are also excluded sometimes), because if it goes live like it is now in the preview forget... about seeing a GF or a TR in any dungeon...
That's such a poor justification. By all means prove that the damage output, survivability or some other metric is too good because of reduced cooldowns gained from Bottomless Quiver. At least come up with something better or more evidence based than "my other class doesn't get that therefore it's too much".
Again, it's already based off a feat we have. It's just balanced better for all gear levels.
Also GF's reduces all encounter CD's by 10%. Ours focuses on Ranger stance. It's actually a problem I have with the upcoming changes for Archery and Combat. We overall gain little to nothing from the other stance. We become a class that never uses Tab. I don't feel this is OK. They should look at these buffs that are now going to be useless and rework them to make Tab useful. Archery at most will be using Throw Caution.
Split the Sky is borderline useless when you have enough CC/AoE to clear the trash mobs and only have up the big hitters who have delayed attacks that get avoided. It's a great opener. But it remains situational after that. But I spose in that case is when Rain of Arrows. So most fights we have 1 viable AoE encounter have SS. Seismic is also there, but I often save it for when I need to pull mobs off myself. Unless the group is doing a very good job keeping them off me(or I just don't deal enough damage for it to matter). But yes, it does do a lot of damage.
Not saying I have a problem with this. Overall I feel as though we are built to do strong sustained damage. But we have weak burst overall.
I agree with your agreeing to my agreeing.
If it is what it takes to separate us as strikers then yes it is fine.
This overall sounds about how it should be. Also what was the CW's damage? Aside from the fact that you were not #1 in immoveable. But some of that also comes down to the dungeon. At 16k the whole thing has to be quite easy for that group. I'm guessing the GWF did a lot of charging and pulling agro at the start with his burst AoE like they do now. Thus taking a lot of the early damage before the mobs were dead and you got there to pick them up.
Right now it's not rare for a CW to get 30%+ my damage at the same gear level. This is also often from them doing that most GWF's do. Run up and clear all the trash mobs. Padding numbers. When all the hunter brings is damage. What % is acceptable for them to be viable? Were you looking for 10-20% over the GWF? The guy that can tank, dps, self heal, cc, cc immune, strong mobility. Granted they're not supposed to be able to do all of this at once anymore. But what % of dps is reasonable over the GWF's that is acceptable? 30% sounds about right to me. Even if it just means a group will want one striker and the rest are GWF/CW's. It's still an improvement.
This is why that little X button is horrible for this game.
Far as GF's go. They shouldn't be high damage. But they should have the top threat and be the best class at making everyone else class more effective. And by doing this through tanking, threat and mob positioning. If a GF could group mobs as well as a CW they'd instantly become more viable. This wouldn't be stepping into the control line. This would be simply positioning.
Also TR changes are coming. I do wonder what they will hold. I suspect for PvE they will be equal to HR in single target damage, more burst, slightly less AoE. DC's I believe are getting more than a tooltip update as well.
I seriously don't want to start all over because getting boons takes forever!
Again with the whiny drivel. Wait until they have actually applied the patch that removes the infinite stacking and 'get stacks from just walking around' before you open your mouth again on this topic. This is going to be nerfed already, from overpowered infinite stacks to hardcapped 10 stacks.
Mid fox shift HR has cc immunity and damage immunity
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Have you even read the TRAPPER path doh ....
Pretty sure we were saying electric shot still sucks. Nobody cared much because everyone was going to change to the new Paragon Pathfinder though.
If electric is as good as split (finally), that would be great.
u giving them too many heals with damage bonus , which will totally disbalance the pvp, make them choose a tree between healing/tanky and damaging just like gwf paths.