ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2014
You may not be a min/max elitist...
But in case you haven't taken a look around many of the players are.
There's a reason why GF's aren't welcome in dungeons. Certainly part of it has to do with GF quality. Many are plain bad and honestly the reason is because they try to fit in with the DPS race status quo.
However the biggest reason is because in the DPS race meta Neverwinter is currently plagued by there's no reason to not bring a DPS class other than to be nice to them. Being nice isn't going to cut it for balance purposes.
The game has to encourage and reward bringing a GF or any other non-DPS class. The approach the devs took is to first of all reduce the AoE DPS of the two classes that burn adds down and reduce the effectiveness of some of the mass controls, most notably increasing the cast times so they have to worry about being attacked more between controls.
So, please do follow iamannoyingdevil's advice. You're not going to win the developers into agreeing that you should be able to be the all in one class. See the effects and the gameplay and forget about the DPS meta. It was never intended.
You are going to desire a GF and DC rather than just be nice to them. Might not be now but it will be done because no classes in the game are intended to be undesirable.
I agree with everything ambisinisterr has said, the devs want to change how pve works, all of the changes we're seeing now are aimed at that. of course people won't be happy, because they want to keep being able to do speed runs, but things will change.
After watching the video and reading your text....I do not get what you are trying to say. Using Repel with Ray of Frost, then using entangling force was how I trivialized many of the solo content bosses. It locks down one person. My belief is that PvP is a team event, not a 1 v 1. It takes a while to take someone down with that method. Leaving plenty of time for their friends to clean your clock. I fail to see an issue with this.
If there is an issue with this, you need to be a little more clear cause I do not see it.
I don't believe that a class should be able to CC another class for the entirety of the fight. It took the CW less than 45 seconds to kill the GF in one of the clips, and less than a minute in the other. That is not a very long time, especially when competitive Domination matches frequently take 30 minutes to 1 hour, much longer is fairly common as well. (not high end "elite" games, just well matched ones).
It IS, however a frustratingly long time to remain CC'd, and removes the opposing players ability to counter the CW in any meaningful way. The video clearly demonstrates only 2 breaks in the CC lock and the breaks are NOT long enough for the GF to land a single encounter.
Also, speaking specifically to PvP Domination and your belief that PvP is a team event: PvP IS a team event, and generally the CW's job is to rotate to clear back caps, and float with the purpose of intercepting enemies on their way to caps. The back caps are usually only occupied by 1 enemy or 1 enemy and 1 friendly stalemating so your 1v1 situation is actually VERY common in Domination. The build demonstrated above would make the CW exceedingly good at this roll to the point where I believe it becomes very imbalanced.
I hope this describes the point of the Videos more clearly, I am of course open to discussing or explaining my position further.
Thanks
Enemy Team
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited June 2014
Whenever I make a group, I take the first 4 players. I don't even ask their class. The only reason I stacked so many CWs and GWFs is because there are so many of them. There aren't many GF/DC/TRs out there.
But thanks: my lifelong dream was to spend a year building very expensive and well geared invoke/leadership bots.
I don't believe that a class should be able to CC another class for the entirety of the fight. It took the CW less than 45 seconds to kill the GF in one of the clips, and less than a minute in the other. That is not a very long time, especially when competitive Domination matches frequently take 30 minutes to 1 hour, much longer is fairly common as well. (not high end "elite" games, just well matched ones).
It IS, however a frustratingly long time to remain CC'd, and removes the opposing players ability to counter the CW in any meaningful way. The video clearly demonstrates only 2 breaks in the CC lock and the breaks are NOT long enough for the GF to land a single encounter.
Also, speaking specifically to PvP Domination and your belief that PvP is a team event: PvP IS a team event, and generally the CW's job is to rotate to clear back caps, and float with the purpose of intercepting enemies on their way to caps. The back caps are usually only occupied by 1 enemy or 1 enemy and 1 friendly stalemating so your 1v1 situation is actually VERY common in Domination. The build demonstrated above would make the CW exceedingly good at this roll to the point where I believe it becomes very imbalanced.
I hope this describes the point of the Videos more clearly, I am of course open to discussing or explaining my position further.
Thanks
And what is the GS of the 2? Can you record another video and show GS for both? That is insanely relevant. For all I know I could be watching a 16k GS CW toy with a 11k GS GF...
Could we have an estimated time on Repel's correction goes live? I don't quite understand how QA in the backend works, but since it has been corrected, maybe it's okay to let it be on preview shard or live shard?
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
I feel like this rework is just a band-aid over the root cause of dps problems in this game. Using a system that relies on percentages instead of raw points doesn't scale in a way to maintain a proper balance as the game continues to expand. Every new module comes with more gear progression and higher stats which will eventually require skills to be reworked again in order to maintain the balance. For a game whose design is so reliant on dps it widens the gap between dps and non-dps classes significantly faster until we have the situation now where a class such as GF just can't keep up and CW are so powerful a tank isn't needed. I alo believe the lack of any level cap increase and associated dungeons is part of the problem too. They are balancing class mechanics for characters with 3 modules of stat increases against content that has remained the same. Additionally, I also think the lack of cap increase is detrimental to new level 60's since they have to compete with higher GS expectations for group slots.
In addition, I want to reinforce that Thaumaturge and Renegade are both DPS trees, and their control being weaker is fine. Oppressor is the premiere control tree and its new ability to spread long duration stuns with shatter across the battlefield have proven to be incredibly potent in our internal testing. Control Wizards now have to make a conscious choice on whether they are playing a magical destroyer who decimates his foes with his spells or whether he wants to freeze all his enemies in their tracks. The feat trees are much more strongly divorced now to allow that dichotomy to exist.
Well, according to players' tests, the nerfed Thaumaturge's has lost 60% of its original dps. I'm not sure if that could still be considered "magical destroyer". And here comes an interesting question, how about the Sorcerer, which is born to be AoE dps machine? If CW Thaumaturge with 60% of its dps gone could still be magical destroyer, I counldn't imagine how extremely destructive Sorcerer would be once it is introduced.
Among other things,i have a request to make. When Mod4 launches please give us a retraining token. There is no more zen to be had at the Zen market,so without it we would be effectively stuck with our old builds. Not to mention that it's unfair not to get one after so many heavy changes.
Stop complaining about your dps. Dungeons will actually be easier with CC specced CWs now.
If CWs start spamming oppressor, what will justify existence of Thauma and Renegade build trees?
Side note:
I'm used to old-school wizards: extremely fragile but extremely powerful. Sadly this is not the case with Cryptic's product. Even in Perfect World (Malaysian version with only 6 classes to choose from), wizard could sacrifice HP and general survivability for the highest damage in the game. I'd think, with 3 paths to choose from, at least one should grant this possibility. When I started my CW in early open beta days, I guessed Renegade will grant just that. Now Renegade is second in DPS, and from what I see, it gets change to Eye of the Storm that will render it useless. Reconsider please.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
If CWs start spamming oppressor, what will justify existence of Thauma and Renegade build trees?
Side note:
I'm used to old-school wizards: extremely fragile but extremely powerful. Sadly this is not the case with Cryptic's product. Even in Perfect World (Malaysian version with only 6 classes to choose from), wizard could sacrifice HP and general survivability for the highest damage in the game. I'd think, with 3 paths to choose from, at least one should grant this possibility. When I started my CW in early open beta days, I guessed Renegade will grant just that. Now Renegade is second in DPS, and from what I see, it gets change to Eye of the Storm that will render it useless. Reconsider please.
There will be a highly destructive wizard class and its name will be: Scourge Warlock (its loot is dropping on preview right now and with the fact that they are making such huge changes to CW right now, its probably coming this or next module).
There will be a highly destructive wizard class and its name will be: Scourge Warlock (its loot is dropping on preview right now and with the fact that they are making such huge changes to CW right now, its probably coming this or next module).
I had heard that Warlock's style is single target dps so it is different from Wizard, which does AOE dps.
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hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
I don't believe that a class should be able to CC another class for the entirety of the fight. It took the CW less than 45 seconds to kill the GF in one of the clips, and less than a minute in the other. That is not a very long time, especially when competitive Domination matches frequently take 30 minutes to 1 hour, much longer is fairly common as well. (not high end "elite" games, just well matched ones).
It IS, however a frustratingly long time to remain CC'd, and removes the opposing players ability to counter the CW in any meaningful way. The video clearly demonstrates only 2 breaks in the CC lock and the breaks are NOT long enough for the GF to land a single encounter.
Also, speaking specifically to PvP Domination and your belief that PvP is a team event: PvP IS a team event, and generally the CW's job is to rotate to clear back caps, and float with the purpose of intercepting enemies on their way to caps. The back caps are usually only occupied by 1 enemy or 1 enemy and 1 friendly stalemating so your 1v1 situation is actually VERY common in Domination. The build demonstrated above would make the CW exceedingly good at this roll to the point where I believe it becomes very imbalanced.
I hope this describes the point of the Videos more clearly, I am of course open to discussing or explaining my position further.
Thanks
Lets be fair about these videos...In the one with the GF, he is one of the best CW out there, even if he hasn't played in a month. Also, if I knew that I was going against just a GF you bet I would wear High Viz too instead of profound, the Debuff is huge.
In Zhengs Videos (i think i can say his name since he identified himself) you also see a very well geared and one of the best CWs on the server do pretty good against GWF even tho he dies, and not so hot against HR. He is the one that perma CC's the DC, but he also wears High Viz and rocks over 5K power in PVP and 9-10 k power in open world ( not sure if he was rocking his companions as I havent been on in guild to ask). If I was just going against a DC I would wear High Viz too. In fact, when I've pulled a pre that has 2 DCs/2 GFs I will switch to High Viz. but that is very rare.
When I pug and inspect other CWs prob like 75% have less than 3500 power, and many even under 3000 power...with the new power change, that is a huge loss of DPS that will hit them even harder with these changes. If I recall correctly the first CW stacks power, or at least he did at one time, as he is the reason that I started to stack power several months ago.
i think that PvP shouldn't be designed around the super experienced and geared players as they are the minority by far.
Anyway, someone said that they got a drop for Warlock, if this is true then there is a real nuker class on the way.
As much as I appreciate another arcane class, I'd rather focus on existing matters, not the far future ones.
Though the question still stands: if only one tree focuses purely on controlling and next to no damaging, what is the purpose of two other branches?
I understand group will benefit from a CW able to freeze mobs in place. But mobs need to be killed eventually. GWFs will have a choice between being more DPS or more tanky. Shouldn't CWs have similar options? You can go full control and little damage, you can go full DPS but little control or you can choose in between?
Only my few cents.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
PVP in this game is bearly ever 1vs1 anyway. CW so op in pvp? GF slams my CW against wall and then knocks him down and again and again and my poor CW can't even cast his OP CC spells. GWF gets immune to evryting, knocks down, DPS to 0 in like 1,5s and im dead. TR kills me before even revealing himself. HR suppreses my skills for like 5 seconds, then he just sits there and gets immune to all getting full HP back. As a CW in arena i often have the most assists but not the most kills. If my party is low on DPS it happens that i manage to KS kills to be at the top. The best thing i can do is to stay away and just assist GWF in his kills with my CC.. But at least i had fun in DD because of AoE CC in dungeon. Now it will be just sad. Most skills rendered usless and not worthy to get their slot. Top daily Maelstorm of Chaos was usless all the time, now the EoTS is usless too. Chilling strike takes 2 months to get cast - usless. I have to stand right in the group of mobs with my stacked up Defense up to 2,5k which doesn't help at all and cast Icy Terrain, Conduit of Ice, Steal time and maybe SoEA or Sudden Storm.. One mob doesnt get CC in time, pushes me back, knocks down or something and 5 others kill me before the end of casting time of any skill.. and it takes ages to kill.. i guess ill have to go back to T2 Dungeons and go MC/VT when ill have 18k+ GS lol...
And honestly i don't mind Feats change, its fine. I dont mind even change in Damage reduction.. but PLZZ leave the casting time alone! Or give us 2-3 more skill slots for the love of god.
Ran some ACT logs on dummies on PE. DPS went from 27.5k on live to 8.6k on preview.
I honestly couldn't care less about dps nerfs even though it's rougly 65-80% reduction in best cases.
What truly irks my are the casting time changes on various spells. I have used these rotations over a year to perfect my timing. You can say it's etched in my muscle memory. The class feels totally alien and sluggish to me now. Changing casting time is the worst thing you can do to a class besides deleting it, imho.
Please, please, please don't mess up the fluidity and responsiveness of a class; of any class AFTER a year of release. These changes need serious reconsideration.
Moderated: If you're going to give feedback, do so constructively and if you cannot post without name-calling or other degrading undertones, then refrain from posting. ~Zeb
they re trying to balance a game that they doesnt even play and do not know how to play it , and the balance is based on QQ so in the end we re all screwed also 1 thing that came up to my mind they re removing dmg from CW cause they re introducing Warlock so looks like they ill make CW pure controller while Warlock ill be dps ( just my guess)
What truly irks my are the casting time changes on various spells. I have used these rotations over a year to perfect my timing. You can say it's etched in my muscle memory. The class feels totally alien and sluggish to me now. Changing casting time is the worst thing you can do to a class besides deleting it, imho.
Please, please, please don't mess up the fluidity and responsiveness of a class; of any class AFTER a year of release. These changes need serious reconsideration.
All these nerfs are unnecessary. They will not change PvE. Leave the PvE nerfs, remove the PvP nerfs. The Renegade tree is a pure single target/PvP tree and should not be touched. The only thing holding long-term/end-game players in this game is the combat system. This is what makes this game better. With the proposed changes, especially the activation time ones, after over 1 year, you are presenting a whole new game to us. Deleting our characters and making us start at lvl 1 again would not be 10% as bad as what the current state of the preview server is. And no, "adjusting" these changes won't help. Remove them all and then start again with decent PvE nerfs: Steal Time, Chill Strike on TAB, Conduit of Ice, Icy Terrain, Singularity (target cap), Shard of Endless Avalanche (target cap), Sudden Storm. If you really wanna make the CW bleed, nerf High Vizier. That's it.
Do you really think it's a good idea to present us a completely new (and extremely unbalanced) game, with the players knowing of the "variety" of end-game content?
I understand group will benefit from a CW able to freeze mobs in place. But mobs need to be killed eventually. GWFs will have a choice between being more DPS or more tanky. Shouldn't CWs have similar options? You can go full control and little damage, you can go full DPS but little control or you can choose in between?
Only my few cents.
This , totally this , HR now has 3 well defined paragon paths , ranged high damage , combat high survivability and control , why can't CW have 3 paths , control , single target damage and aoe damage, seems to me a lot of people here who don't even main CW's talking nonsense .
Infact from reading the comments id say 80-90% of CWs have no idea what they are talking about.
Preview damage cannot be tested, despite what people say. because important feats are not working, so we do not know how big a drop in dps this is. Not to mention this is very early on. So all this raging and wailing is all speculation. It feels like most CWs want to and like to outshine everyone.
I have tested it out , at least the skills I use now on live , I don't pvp , I don't 1v1 pvp so oppressor tree being OP in a 1v1 pvp fight is about a irrelevant as you can get , show me a CN or MC run with a well geared rainbow party on preview and show us these OP CW's in pve .
Armor Penetration should now correctly work on all powers.
Powers
Magic Missile: The first two strikes can be chained together about 40% slower. The third strike of Magic Missile now takes 1.4 seconds to fire (up from 1.2).
Chilling Cloud: The final strike of Chilling Cloud now takes 1 second to fire (down from 1.2).
Scorching Burst: This power now benefits more from being charged. The bonus from charging has been improved by roughly 50%.
Chill Strike: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second).
Chill Strike: This power has had its recharge time increased to 15 seconds (up from 13 seconds).
Conduit of Ice: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .98 seconds).
Conduit of Ice: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 13 seconds (down from 18 seconds).
Conduit of Ice: This power has had its damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Entangling Force: This power's damage over time component now ticks every .5 seconds (down from every .65 seconds).
Entangling Force: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from 1 second).
Entangling Force: This power has had its total base damage reduced by about 10% overall.
Icy Terrain: This power now ticks every 1 second (down from every 1.3 seconds).
Sudden Storm: This power has had its recharge time increased to 14 seconds (up from 10 seconds).
Sudden Storm: This power has had its base damage reduced by roughly 33%
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .9 seconds).
Ray of Enfeeblement: This power has had its recharge time increased to 18 seconds (up from 14).
Ray of Enfeeblement: Allies no longer benefit from this debuff.
Steal Time: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 65%.
Steal Time: This power has had its recharge time reduced to 18 seconds (down from 22 seconds).
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its base impact damage reduced by roughly 33%.
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power has had its explosion damage reduced by roughly 60%.
Fanning the Flame: This power now takes 1.5 seconds to fire (up from .6 seconds).
Fanning the Flame: This power has had its recharge time increased to 22 seconds (up from 15 seconds).
Arcane Singularity: Activation time increased to 2 seconds (up from 1 second).
Arcane Singularity: Now can affect up to 8 targets (down from 15).
Oppressive Force: This power has had its overall damage reduced by roughly 9%.
Ice Knife: This power now takes 1.2 seconds to fire (up from .93 seconds).
Furious Immolation: This power has had its damage increased by roughly 26%.
Eye of the Storm: This power now has an internal cooldown of 90 seconds. Base Duration increased to 4 seconds (up from 2). Duration increase per rank increased to 1 (up from .5).
Feats: Heroic
Wizard's Wrath: This feat now grants 1/2/3% area of effect damage (down from 2/4/6%).
Arcane Enhancement: This feat now grants 1/2/3% more Arcane damage (down from 2/4/6%).
Blighting Power: This feat now grants 2/4/6% more cold damage (down from 3/6/9%).
Focused Wizardry: *REWORK* Single target Powers deal 2/4/6% more damage.
Feats: Oppressor
Bitter Cold: *REWORK* Targets take 1/2/3/4/5% more damage for 6 seconds after being affected by Chill. This effect does not stack.
Chilling Control (Paragon: Spellstorm): *REWORK* Sudden Storm now applies 1/2/3/4/5 stacks of Chill to targets hit by the primary strike.
Twisting Immolation (Paragon: Master of Flame): This feat now dazes targets for .8/1.6/2.4/3.2/4 seconds (up from .2/.4/.6/.8/1 second(s)).
Cold Infusion: *REWORK* Foes deal 1/2/3/4/5% less damage for 10 seconds after being affected by Chill. This effect does not stack.
Glacial Movement: Ray of Frost has a 10/20/30/40/50% (up from 5/10/15/20/25%) chance to apply an additional stack of Chill.
Alacrity: *REWORK* When you deal damage to foes affected by Chill you have a chance to reduce the cooldown on Icy Terrain and Entangling Force by .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 second(s).
Controlled Momentum: *REWORK* After using a Control power nearby allies deal 1/2/3/4/5% more damage for 6 seconds. This effect does not stack.
Shatter Strike: *REWORK* When you freeze a target they are afflicted by Shattered for 10 seconds. Shattered foes have a chance when taking damage to be stunned for 5 seconds (1 second on players) and take up to 5% of their Max HP in damage (max 300% weapon damage). This effect consumes Shatter. Additionally, your control powers deal 100% of your weapon damage against control immune targets and Chill lasts 2.5 seconds longer.
Feats: Thaumaturge
Tempest Magic: This feat now grants 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5% (down from 2/4/6/8/10%) bonus damage while targets are below 30% HP.
Malevolent Surge: This feat now grants 1/2/3/4/5% (down from 2/4/6/8/10%) and no longer stacks. This feat now lasts 15 seconds (up from 4).
Snap Freeze: This feat now grants 2/4/6/8/10% (down from 3/6/9/12/15) bonus damage to your Cold At Wills and Encounters against foes who are not Chilled.
Destructive Wizardry (Paragon: Storm): This feat now grants 1/2/3/4/5% (down from 2/4/5/8/10%) bonus damage. This feat no longer requires you strike at least 2 targets, but now requires you charge Storm Pillar fully. This feat now lasts 20 seconds (up from 6).
Drifting Embers (Paragon: Master of Flame): This feat now has a 8/16/24/32/40% (up from 5/10/15/20/25%) chance to spread Smolder to targets.
Far Spell: Now affects all Single Target powers rather than just Magic Missile and Chill Strike.
Frozen Power Transfer: This bonus now stacks up to a maximum of 3 stacks and is refreshed when you gain a new stack. Players will gain one stack for each target hit with the final strike of Chilling Cloud. This bonus now lasts 20 seconds (up from 8).
Transcended Master: Shard of Endless Avalanche now gains 2/4/6/8/10% (down from 3/6/9/12/15%) bonus damage. Icy Rays now gains 2/4/5/8/10% bonus damage when cast on the same target twice and a .5/1/1.5/2/2.5 second(s) shorter cooldown when used on two different targets.
Elemental Empowerment: *REWORK* Dealing Cold damage has a 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Creeping Frost. Creeping Frost deals 85% of your weapon damage as cold damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Dealing Arcane damage has a 3/6/9/12/15% chance to apply Warped Magics. Warped Magics deals 50% of your weapon damage as Arcane damage every 3 seconds for 18 seconds. Warped Magics ignores half of a target's resistance. These effects do not stack.
Assailing Force: *REWORK* Dealing damage to foes has a chance to grant you Assailant. When you have Assailant your next encounter power deals 10% of the target's max HP as unresistable damage (max 500% weapon damage). This will only affect one target when used in an AoE.
Feats: Renegade
Reapers Touch: This feat now grants 2/4/6/8/10% (down from 3/6/9/12/15%) bonus damage.
Nightmare Wizardry: This feat now has a 1/2/3/4/5% chance (down from 4/8/12/16/20%) to grant you and allies combat advantage for 12 seconds (up from 4).
Unrestrained Chaos (Paragon: Storm): This feat now has a chance to apply 6 stacks of Chill (up from 1) to a nearby target or to grant you full stacks of Arcane Mastery (up from 1) every second for 1/2/3/4/5. Maelstrom will not freeze foes.
Arcane Burst (Paragon: Master of Flame): Each target hit by Scorching Burst has a 6/12/18/24/30% (up from 4/8/12/16/20%) chance to add a stack of Arcane Mastery.
Phantasmal Destruction: When you deal Combat Advantage damage you have a 25% chance (down from 100%) to grant 3/6/9/12/15% Critical Severity for 6 seconds.
Energy Recovery: Now grants 1/2/3/4/5% (up from .15/.3/.45/.6/.75%) of your HP as Temp HP and .2/.4/.6/.8/1% (up from .15/.3/.45/.6/.75%) Temp HP for each additional target hit.
Chilling Advantage: This feat now grants 1/2/3/4/5% chance to Crit to all Encounter Powers (rather than Cold Powers).
Chaos Magic: *REWORK* Dealing Damage to targets has a chance to apply Chaos Magic to yourself. When you are affected by Chaos Magic you cannot be affected by a new Chaos Magic. You will be affected by Chaotic Growth, Chaotic Nexus, or Chaotic Fury.
Chaotic Growth - Heal yourself for 200% weapon damage every second for 10 seconds.
Chaotic Nexus - You gain 5% additional Armor Penetration and Critical Chance for 10 seconds.
Chaotic Fury - You gain gain 10% additional Power and Lifesteal for 10 seconds.
I really hope this is a try out..and people can try it before you guys change is for always because what i read totally not balanced at all. I really love to play with my CW the damage she does the help she do for the team and now you change that all¿ Why¿ What is wrong with the skills and feats we all now use..so i repeat let people try this new changes first. I think in pve this all sucks you consider that¿Or is this game change slowly to pvp only¿
They cant say that the changes are for PvE only because nerfing CW for PvE is quite easy and that's not what they did. They nerfed CW in PvP too and that's clearly not a mistake from their side. They need to take out the damage-part from CW so that the new class (warlock) can take that position in the party. Otherwise we would have two classes that does the same thing.
If they only wanted to nerf PvE the easiest way would just to cap targets on the big damage-spells and nerf some damage AoE feats/powers.
Shard target cap
Singularity target cap
Opressive force target cap
Nerf damage on Chill strike on TAB
Nerf mitigation on CoI
Nerf damage on Sudden storm
Nerf damage on Evocation
That would have been enough. And if not, they could have nerfed the High Vizer set without affecting the PvP.
But instead they nuked the whole class and there is a reason for that (warlock). So since I choosen a CW to play and spent money and time on it, I would want a token to be able to transform my CW to a warlock when it comes out because this CW class you created was NOT what I signed up for. I would create a warlock if the artifacts and companions and mounts wasn't so expensive. Starting all over again just because you destroyed my CW is not an option for me.
ZengiaH@ejziponken
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited June 2014
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited June 2014
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Comments
But in case you haven't taken a look around many of the players are.
There's a reason why GF's aren't welcome in dungeons. Certainly part of it has to do with GF quality. Many are plain bad and honestly the reason is because they try to fit in with the DPS race status quo.
However the biggest reason is because in the DPS race meta Neverwinter is currently plagued by there's no reason to not bring a DPS class other than to be nice to them. Being nice isn't going to cut it for balance purposes.
The game has to encourage and reward bringing a GF or any other non-DPS class. The approach the devs took is to first of all reduce the AoE DPS of the two classes that burn adds down and reduce the effectiveness of some of the mass controls, most notably increasing the cast times so they have to worry about being attacked more between controls.
So, please do follow iamannoyingdevil's advice. You're not going to win the developers into agreeing that you should be able to be the all in one class. See the effects and the gameplay and forget about the DPS meta. It was never intended.
You are going to desire a GF and DC rather than just be nice to them. Might not be now but it will be done because no classes in the game are intended to be undesirable.
I don't believe that a class should be able to CC another class for the entirety of the fight. It took the CW less than 45 seconds to kill the GF in one of the clips, and less than a minute in the other. That is not a very long time, especially when competitive Domination matches frequently take 30 minutes to 1 hour, much longer is fairly common as well. (not high end "elite" games, just well matched ones).
It IS, however a frustratingly long time to remain CC'd, and removes the opposing players ability to counter the CW in any meaningful way. The video clearly demonstrates only 2 breaks in the CC lock and the breaks are NOT long enough for the GF to land a single encounter.
Also, speaking specifically to PvP Domination and your belief that PvP is a team event: PvP IS a team event, and generally the CW's job is to rotate to clear back caps, and float with the purpose of intercepting enemies on their way to caps. The back caps are usually only occupied by 1 enemy or 1 enemy and 1 friendly stalemating so your 1v1 situation is actually VERY common in Domination. The build demonstrated above would make the CW exceedingly good at this roll to the point where I believe it becomes very imbalanced.
I hope this describes the point of the Videos more clearly, I am of course open to discussing or explaining my position further.
Thanks
But thanks: my lifelong dream was to spend a year building very expensive and well geared invoke/leadership bots.
And what is the GS of the 2? Can you record another video and show GS for both? That is insanely relevant. For all I know I could be watching a 16k GS CW toy with a 11k GS GF...
And do you really think these nerfs will make people say "hey, let's invite TRs instead?"
The damage nerf to PVE is long time coming, but CW isn't exactly the best class in PVP and I hope they will reconsider buffing CW's 1v1 controls etc.
Also, still waiting for the TR perma-stealth rebalancing.
Among other things,i have a request to make. When Mod4 launches please give us a retraining token. There is no more zen to be had at the Zen market,so without it we would be effectively stuck with our old builds. Not to mention that it's unfair not to get one after so many heavy changes.
If CWs start spamming oppressor, what will justify existence of Thauma and Renegade build trees?
Side note:
I'm used to old-school wizards: extremely fragile but extremely powerful. Sadly this is not the case with Cryptic's product. Even in Perfect World (Malaysian version with only 6 classes to choose from), wizard could sacrifice HP and general survivability for the highest damage in the game. I'd think, with 3 paths to choose from, at least one should grant this possibility. When I started my CW in early open beta days, I guessed Renegade will grant just that. Now Renegade is second in DPS, and from what I see, it gets change to Eye of the Storm that will render it useless. Reconsider please.
There will be a highly destructive wizard class and its name will be: Scourge Warlock (its loot is dropping on preview right now and with the fact that they are making such huge changes to CW right now, its probably coming this or next module).
Lets be fair about these videos...In the one with the GF, he is one of the best CW out there, even if he hasn't played in a month. Also, if I knew that I was going against just a GF you bet I would wear High Viz too instead of profound, the Debuff is huge.
In Zhengs Videos (i think i can say his name since he identified himself) you also see a very well geared and one of the best CWs on the server do pretty good against GWF even tho he dies, and not so hot against HR. He is the one that perma CC's the DC, but he also wears High Viz and rocks over 5K power in PVP and 9-10 k power in open world ( not sure if he was rocking his companions as I havent been on in guild to ask). If I was just going against a DC I would wear High Viz too. In fact, when I've pulled a pre that has 2 DCs/2 GFs I will switch to High Viz. but that is very rare.
When I pug and inspect other CWs prob like 75% have less than 3500 power, and many even under 3000 power...with the new power change, that is a huge loss of DPS that will hit them even harder with these changes. If I recall correctly the first CW stacks power, or at least he did at one time, as he is the reason that I started to stack power several months ago.
i think that PvP shouldn't be designed around the super experienced and geared players as they are the minority by far.
Anyway, someone said that they got a drop for Warlock, if this is true then there is a real nuker class on the way.
Though the question still stands: if only one tree focuses purely on controlling and next to no damaging, what is the purpose of two other branches?
I understand group will benefit from a CW able to freeze mobs in place. But mobs need to be killed eventually. GWFs will have a choice between being more DPS or more tanky. Shouldn't CWs have similar options? You can go full control and little damage, you can go full DPS but little control or you can choose in between?
Only my few cents.
And honestly i don't mind Feats change, its fine. I dont mind even change in Damage reduction.. but PLZZ leave the casting time alone! Or give us 2-3 more skill slots for the love of god.
I honestly couldn't care less about dps nerfs even though it's rougly 65-80% reduction in best cases.
What truly irks my are the casting time changes on various spells. I have used these rotations over a year to perfect my timing. You can say it's etched in my muscle memory. The class feels totally alien and sluggish to me now. Changing casting time is the worst thing you can do to a class besides deleting it, imho.
Please, please, please don't mess up the fluidity and responsiveness of a class; of any class AFTER a year of release. These changes need serious reconsideration.
All these nerfs are unnecessary. They will not change PvE. Leave the PvE nerfs, remove the PvP nerfs. The Renegade tree is a pure single target/PvP tree and should not be touched. The only thing holding long-term/end-game players in this game is the combat system. This is what makes this game better. With the proposed changes, especially the activation time ones, after over 1 year, you are presenting a whole new game to us. Deleting our characters and making us start at lvl 1 again would not be 10% as bad as what the current state of the preview server is. And no, "adjusting" these changes won't help. Remove them all and then start again with decent PvE nerfs: Steal Time, Chill Strike on TAB, Conduit of Ice, Icy Terrain, Singularity (target cap), Shard of Endless Avalanche (target cap), Sudden Storm. If you really wanna make the CW bleed, nerf High Vizier. That's it.
Do you really think it's a good idea to present us a completely new (and extremely unbalanced) game, with the players knowing of the "variety" of end-game content?
This , totally this , HR now has 3 well defined paragon paths , ranged high damage , combat high survivability and control , why can't CW have 3 paths , control , single target damage and aoe damage, seems to me a lot of people here who don't even main CW's talking nonsense .
I have tested it out , at least the skills I use now on live , I don't pvp , I don't 1v1 pvp so oppressor tree being OP in a 1v1 pvp fight is about a irrelevant as you can get , show me a CN or MC run with a well geared rainbow party on preview and show us these OP CW's in pve .
I really hope this is a try out..and people can try it before you guys change is for always because what i read totally not balanced at all. I really love to play with my CW the damage she does the help she do for the team and now you change that all¿ Why¿ What is wrong with the skills and feats we all now use..so i repeat let people try this new changes first. I think in pve this all sucks you consider that¿Or is this game change slowly to pvp only¿
If they only wanted to nerf PvE the easiest way would just to cap targets on the big damage-spells and nerf some damage AoE feats/powers.
Shard target cap
Singularity target cap
Opressive force target cap
Nerf damage on Chill strike on TAB
Nerf mitigation on CoI
Nerf damage on Sudden storm
Nerf damage on Evocation
That would have been enough. And if not, they could have nerfed the High Vizer set without affecting the PvP.
But instead they nuked the whole class and there is a reason for that (warlock). So since I choosen a CW to play and spent money and time on it, I would want a token to be able to transform my CW to a warlock when it comes out because this CW class you created was NOT what I signed up for. I would create a warlock if the artifacts and companions and mounts wasn't so expensive. Starting all over again just because you destroyed my CW is not an option for me.
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