If the shard of endless avalanche damage nurf scaled with the amount of enemies being hit, I would be all for it. But a flat damage reduction severely hurts the abilities effectiveness in any situation. If you hit 5 people with the explosion, then the damage per person could be like -50%, so 10% damage reduction per person. So no matter what you will still be hitting the same as if it was just one person being hit.
ex: You crit a 10k shard explosion on 1 person
You crit a 2k shard explosion on 5 different people, adding up to 10k
If the shard of endless avalanche damage nurf scaled with the amount of enemies being hit, I would be all for it. But a flat damage reduction severely hurts the abilities effectiveness in any situation. If you hit 5 people with the explosion, then the damage per person could be like -50%, so 10% damage reduction per person. So no matter what you will still be hitting the same as if it was just one person being hit.
ex: You crit a 10k shard explosion on 1 person
You crit a 2k shard explosion on 5 different people, adding up to 10k
^^ This.
As I recall, the GWF abilities drop in damage per target the more targets hit. Why was this not implemented for Shard?
With the current Shard nerfs, I seem to be able to get more damage out of the nerfed Sudden Storm than Shard half the time.
As per a prior developer post in this thread, Thaum & Renegade are supposed to be DPS trees...but there isn't much damage left there at least as a SpellStorm.
Played around on test for a bit last night, and that only viable damage option appears to be MOF, and there seems to be more damage with an Oppressor build than with the "DPS" trees. Waiting for the last mentioned changes to test before looking at it again. Right now COI has no business on the Tab key, and not really worthy of a spot on the other keys. I would take SS over Shard except you have to go Spellstorm to get SS....
Not really a CW specific item, but they really need to make Artifacts/Companions account bound if they are going to screw up entire classes. (GF, TR, semi CW)
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
If the shard of endless avalanche damage nurf scaled with the amount of enemies being hit, I would be all for it. But a flat damage reduction severely hurts the abilities effectiveness in any situation. If you hit 5 people with the explosion, then the damage per person could be like -50%, so 10% damage reduction per person. So no matter what you will still be hitting the same as if it was just one person being hit.
ex: You crit a 10k shard explosion on 1 person
You crit a 2k shard explosion on 5 different people, adding up to 10k
If the shard of endless avalanche damage nurf scaled with the amount of enemies being hit, I would be all for it. But a flat damage reduction severely hurts the abilities effectiveness in any situation. If you hit 5 people with the explosion, then the damage per person could be like -50%, so 10% damage reduction per person. So no matter what you will still be hitting the same as if it was just one person being hit.
ex: You crit a 10k shard explosion on 1 person
You crit a 2k shard explosion on 5 different people, adding up to 10k
Correcting my obvious mistake, the shard wouldn't get a damage nurf at all, but instead the damage would be reworked so that the total damage it would do to 1 person would be spread out over 5 people lets say, so you don't even have to reduce the damage, you can just give it kind of a shotgun effect, the amount of pellets is always the same (10k damage) but the pellets (damage) are spread out over however many targets are hit.
If its not supposed to be our best nuke then why is it the last spell on our list. By all logical points of view the last spell obtained should be your best, you waited 50 friggin levels to be able to point any points into it.
If you look at the entirety of the changes it is pretty clear that their goal is to move CW's from "best damager in the game" to "best controller in the game." If that is their true aim, then making the final feat offer great control--and 3.5 seconds of prone is great control--makes sense.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
fgmfanhaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
The feedback about what im feeling about this changes are that you guys dont care about the time spent building a class.. and change everything on it.. and it stoped beeing a damage making class (control is damage on AoE not only stuns) to be a glassy class that gives stuns and doesnt have the ability to finish the job, i.e. killing the mob.
I would understand a nerf here and there, but all the key used spells are nerfed in cast time and damage output... and the "buff" on arp afecting all abilities its not a buff but a fix..
CW has allways been a class that gives a lot of AoE damage, yes, that is true.. but it has skill built into its gameplay and you are punished if you fail on it's use.. Making it slower to cast and less output damage is breaking the class! I understand the cooldown times getting bigger... it would make us choose between recovery and other stats.. but the casting time will get us killed a lot on dungeons! it already does as it is on life.
0
fgmfanhaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If you look at the entirety of the changes it is pretty clear that their goal is to move CW's from "best damager in the game" to "best controller in the game." If that is their true aim, then making the final feat offer great control--and 3.5 seconds of prone is great control--makes sense.
The thing is... in D&D controlling is doing a lot of damage in AoE.. Gwf's or HR will now be the best controllers in the game! we will be pushed into a suport role of just giving stuns and die a lot! lol
0
lukejones77Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 282Arc User
I stopped reading here, as all your 'testing' was rendered useless by this omission.
Not to mention there are bugged feats in the Thaum tree at the moment so the class is not WAI right now.
That was blunt, and in appreciation of your bluntness: It's not an "omission", it's an "admission". Further, your assertion of "was rendered useless" is an unsubstantiated claim.
The Thaum tree is still the Thaum tree. This is not a new tree, where a lot of respec combination testing would be the start of the conversation.
What we have here is a reworking of existing feats, and it's entirely appropriate to test how an existing build fares when it's feats are reworked. It's the closest you can possibly get to an "apples for apples" test between Module 3 and Module 4. My "admittedly" was there to acknowledge that it's possible to hope for some kind of improvement through tweaking, but, really, this has been too deeply nerfed. It's very clear in the reading of the documented DEV changes, and I confirmed that what I saw in testing what I expected.
All the comments on the disappearance of party debuffs and other issues on the "slottability" of the top tier powers (which you never got to as you stopped reading) are self evident.
Even if there are currently bugs in the implementation, based on the intended design as documented by the DEVs, the eventual outcome will be much the same.
0
fgmfanhaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited June 2014
STEAL TIME: Whoever designed the CW class originally apparently knew that this was the real non damaging "control" spell, its actually based on the old D&D 9th level Spell called... TIME STOP. Which allowed the Wizard to stop time and cast multiple spells on the target.. then with time resumed ALL of those spells cast at once and took effect.... That's the reason this version of it is one of the lower damaging spells of the CW... THIS is the one if you wanted to nerf that damage on, that would be appropriate..... Instead you Increased the damage on this spell when its own nature has nothing to do with Damage.
SHARDS OF ENDLESS AVALANCHE: This one is based on the old D&D spell called Meteor Swarm. This was the highest damage large area of effect spell the Magic User had. This one was always about damage from the beginning. This is the room clearing spell. NOT a non-damage control spell. It is inappropriate for a damage reduction. That's why its the capstone power of the CW.
No reason to nerf this one in terms of damage- that was its entire purpose.
0
trollobMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 10Arc User
Hey guys, adding one more incoming change to the list of things going up in the next week or two. We really like the concept of Shard, but having it be bar none your best nuke was worrying, especially given that in dungeon and group content it was often pretty hard not to get the most out of it. However we do like the control aspect it does bring and the skill required to land that when there are less foes (or in PVP where it should still merit a slot). Given that we are making the following change to reinforce that.
Control Wizard: Shard of the Endless Avalanche: This power now prones NPCs for 3.5 seconds (up from 1) and prones players for 2.25 seconds (up from 1).
Thank you all for your continued feedback.
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
I thought you were going to take away prones in PVP since you nerfed prone encounters from GWFs and reduced damage from these, nice combo. Very interesting but i consider unfair changes i want to see what will you do with bull charge.
Gonna check shard CC buff (sound good)
hmmmm.... still waiting for Storm Cage gentlemancrush but with all this I'm going to have dillema on what to use on my bar
Edit OFFTOP: Is it only me or is forum banner (neverwinter shadmowmantle/curse of IWD) overlaps on each other
Don't start with that, the only power of the game that would cause that on a HR is Ray of Frost and that's why you have encounters and dailies. Gentlemancrush said "This will help them eat more sustained damage without impacting burst damage in any really immediate way." and RoF is ideal for that.
Don't start with that, the only power of the game that would cause that on a HR is Ray of Frost and that's why you have encounters and dailies. Gentlemancrush said "This will help them eat more sustained damage without impacting burst damage in any really immediate way." and RoF is ideal for that.
Lol they already fixed that and it was a joke, I was one of those CWs and we all had a big laugh.
Lol they already fixed that and it was a joke, I was one of those CWs and we all had a big laugh.
ur forgetting the fact thats the HR not fighting back. in a 1v1, literally as soon as the HR can cast 1 root from hindering shot. the cw is dead in the next 2-3 hits
Don't waste my time.
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
Mike... Shards was not a single target spell... its an AoE. While its great for PvP... that's not what the Wizard class is. That's the Warlock.
If they really want to go with this, they need to make a different class. Because Turning the CW into a Striker class (aka, single target) and removing the AoEs is basically doing just that. In which case they're going to have to seriously power up the Single Target damage spells.
Mike... Shards was not a single target spell... its an AoE. While its great for PvP... that's not what the Wizard class is. That's the Warlock.
If they really want to go with this, they need to make a different class. Because Turning the CW into a Striker class (aka, single target) and removing the AoEs is basically doing just that. In which case they're going to have to seriously power up the Single Target damage spells.
Thats not what the Wizard class is.
Yea but in reality not every situation demands high AoE damage and their nurf was overall, making it horrid for single target and still underpowered for multiple targets. The way I see it, if they have to do some kind of nurf to the shard, may aswell be multiplicative so you can still have some effectiveness from it
ur forgetting the fact thats the HR not fighting back. in a 1v1, literally as soon as the HR can cast 1 root from hindering shot. the cw is dead in the next 2-3 hits
The developers were aware of the issue and put in a fix already.
The developers were aware of the issue and put in a fix already.
what they fixed HRs ability 1 shot people with a 40k aimshot? they fixed thornward ticking for 9k crits per tick with over 100% crit chance?, they fixed the ability to perma root people to death?........ ye try again m8
If you look at the entirety of the changes it is pretty clear that their goal is to move CW's from "best damager in the game" to "best controller in the game." If that is their true aim, then making the final feat offer great control--and 3.5 seconds of prone is great control--makes sense.
Actually it makes no sense, the Control Wizard in D&D which is what this game is supposed to be controls the battlefield by using large damaging AoE spells thus forcing the enemies to split up to avoid damage and rendering them in-effective. The control wizard is and was never about freezing people in place or knocking them down or any of that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> it was always about area of effect damage terrain manipulation. This idea that control wizard means to incapacitate and not damage comes from the lack of knowledge about the D&D setting. Also the only reason you meter watchers are seeing CW's topping the damage charts is because they are doing AoE damage. Where are they when it comes to single target damage? Right where they are supposed to be, lower than everyone else. They are not the best damager in the game they just happen to have more AoE so hitting 15 mobs for 1k each ends up doing more damage than hitting one mob for 5k but the effect is the CW did less damage on the boss but effects the entire battle to clean up his friends. That is the essence of the CW, parse their damage on single targets compared to similar gear and skill TR or GWF or even good HR and you will see its not so OP to need this massive reduction in effectiveness.
0
aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited June 2014
The shard prone won't help us a bit against all those control immune mobs. The damage was good against them, but that's gone.
Thats sounds good. Makes up for the damage nerf on shard. Maybe buff the damage 15-20%.
I think that would be going in the wrong direction. Currently the DPS output from CWs is extreme. What they are trying to do is throttle it back a bit and reign it in. They are also trying to create a clear division between control and damage builds. The end result is we should have some unique and varied builds for CWs instead of The One Build. I'm actually considering switching my CW from Thaum (DPS) to Oppressor (Control) with these changes.
On the GWF side they are doing something similar with Destroyer as DPS and Sentinel as a tank. The HR division between melee and archery is a bit more complicated though (dare say messy). It should be interesting in the end though.
The shard prone won't help us a bit against all those control immune mobs. The damage was good against them, but that's gone.
I think that's the point , to try to make GF more useful in future . I like the sound of the change but have yet to try it out but CW sounds like it will be able to lock down large numbers of enemy mobs at least ,if nothing else.
I think that would be going in the wrong direction. Currently the DPS output from CWs is extreme. What they are trying to do is throttle it back a bit and reign it in. They are also trying to create a clear division between control and damage builds. The end result is we should have some unique and varied builds for CWs instead of The One Build. I'm actually considering switching my CW from Thaum (DPS) to Oppressor (Control) with these changes.
On the GWF side they are doing something similar with Destroyer as DPS and Sentinel as a tank. The HR division between melee and archery is a bit more complicated though (dare say messy). It should be interesting in the end though.
They can buff the TAB version of it because its needed in PvP. And to be honest all these changes are forcing everyone to the oppressor tree in both PvP and PvE. Thaum and Renegade lack the DPS and the control. Only reason Oppressor might be good is for the shatter.
ZengiaH@ejziponken
0
aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited June 2014
The end result is we should have some unique and varied builds for CWs instead of The One Build. I'm actually considering switching my CW from Thaum (DPS) to Oppressor (Control) with these changes.
Looks to me like they want all CWs to switch to Oppressor or quit.
I think that's the point , to try to make GF more useful in future . I like the sound of the change but have yet to try it out but CW sounds like it will be able to lock down large numbers of enemy mobs at least ,if nothing else.
So what damage boosts are the giving GFs?
0
fgmfanhaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Actually it makes no sense, the Control Wizard in D&D which is what this game is supposed to be controls the battlefield by using large damaging AoE spells thus forcing the enemies to split up to avoid damage and rendering them in-effective. The control wizard is and was never about freezing people in place or knocking them down or any of that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> it was always about area of effect damage terrain manipulation. This idea that control wizard means to incapacitate and not damage comes from the lack of knowledge about the D&D setting. Also the only reason you meter watchers are seeing CW's topping the damage charts is because they are doing AoE damage. Where are they when it comes to single target damage? Right where they are supposed to be, lower than everyone else. They are not the best damager in the game they just happen to have more AoE so hitting 15 mobs for 1k each ends up doing more damage than hitting one mob for 5k but the effect is the CW did less damage on the boss but effects the entire battle to clean up his friends. That is the essence of the CW, parse their damage on single targets compared to similar gear and skill TR or GWF or even good HR and you will see its not so OP to need this massive reduction in effectiveness.
Unfortunantly they dont listen.. with the changes to CW damage nerf on AoE the name of the game D&D is misleading
Looks to me like they want all CWs to switch to Oppressor or quit.
At the moment, that's how it is. But be patient. They're listening and making changes based on feeback. There's still plenty of time until this goes live. We still haven't even been able to test the Thaumaturge tree or the new cooldown on Eye of the Storm since the former was bugged and the latter hasn't made it to the preview server yet.
And just so people are aware, there are still builds capable of dishing out a healthy amount of damage. Last night I started the HE Rescue the Prospectors with 7 minutes remaining. I was able to take down all of the starting mobs and all of the reinforcements in 5 minutes. The boss killed me with 1 minute left in the HE. Given more time I probably could have beaten it. That's quite a bit of damage in a small amount of time. However, the build I was using bore no resemblance to my current one. I had to completely alter my build to make it work. I think that is what has people the most freaked out. It's not that they're making the damage totally disappear, it's that the builds and spell rotations that people have come to know and love are being neutered. But rest assured there are still other ways to get the job done.
Comments
ex: You crit a 10k shard explosion on 1 person
You crit a 2k shard explosion on 5 different people, adding up to 10k
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
^^ This.
As I recall, the GWF abilities drop in damage per target the more targets hit. Why was this not implemented for Shard?
With the current Shard nerfs, I seem to be able to get more damage out of the nerfed Sudden Storm than Shard half the time.
As per a prior developer post in this thread, Thaum & Renegade are supposed to be DPS trees...but there isn't much damage left there at least as a SpellStorm.
Played around on test for a bit last night, and that only viable damage option appears to be MOF, and there seems to be more damage with an Oppressor build than with the "DPS" trees. Waiting for the last mentioned changes to test before looking at it again. Right now COI has no business on the Tab key, and not really worthy of a spot on the other keys. I would take SS over Shard except you have to go Spellstorm to get SS....
Not really a CW specific item, but they really need to make Artifacts/Companions account bound if they are going to screw up entire classes. (GF, TR, semi CW)
As does Chains of Blazing Light for DC.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I am in favor of this idea
Correcting my obvious mistake, the shard wouldn't get a damage nurf at all, but instead the damage would be reworked so that the total damage it would do to 1 person would be spread out over 5 people lets say, so you don't even have to reduce the damage, you can just give it kind of a shotgun effect, the amount of pellets is always the same (10k damage) but the pellets (damage) are spread out over however many targets are hit.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
the shard will stop desapearing when the shard summuner gets controled?
If you look at the entirety of the changes it is pretty clear that their goal is to move CW's from "best damager in the game" to "best controller in the game." If that is their true aim, then making the final feat offer great control--and 3.5 seconds of prone is great control--makes sense.
I would understand a nerf here and there, but all the key used spells are nerfed in cast time and damage output... and the "buff" on arp afecting all abilities its not a buff but a fix..
CW has allways been a class that gives a lot of AoE damage, yes, that is true.. but it has skill built into its gameplay and you are punished if you fail on it's use.. Making it slower to cast and less output damage is breaking the class! I understand the cooldown times getting bigger... it would make us choose between recovery and other stats.. but the casting time will get us killed a lot on dungeons! it already does as it is on life.
The thing is... in D&D controlling is doing a lot of damage in AoE.. Gwf's or HR will now be the best controllers in the game! we will be pushed into a suport role of just giving stuns and die a lot! lol
That was blunt, and in appreciation of your bluntness: It's not an "omission", it's an "admission". Further, your assertion of "was rendered useless" is an unsubstantiated claim.
The Thaum tree is still the Thaum tree. This is not a new tree, where a lot of respec combination testing would be the start of the conversation.
What we have here is a reworking of existing feats, and it's entirely appropriate to test how an existing build fares when it's feats are reworked. It's the closest you can possibly get to an "apples for apples" test between Module 3 and Module 4. My "admittedly" was there to acknowledge that it's possible to hope for some kind of improvement through tweaking, but, really, this has been too deeply nerfed. It's very clear in the reading of the documented DEV changes, and I confirmed that what I saw in testing what I expected.
All the comments on the disappearance of party debuffs and other issues on the "slottability" of the top tier powers (which you never got to as you stopped reading) are self evident.
Even if there are currently bugs in the implementation, based on the intended design as documented by the DEVs, the eventual outcome will be much the same.
"Don't make it into THIS kind of game!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jUVjGUtTIM "
SHARDS OF ENDLESS AVALANCHE: This one is based on the old D&D spell called Meteor Swarm. This was the highest damage large area of effect spell the Magic User had. This one was always about damage from the beginning. This is the room clearing spell. NOT a non-damage control spell. It is inappropriate for a damage reduction. That's why its the capstone power of the CW.
No reason to nerf this one in terms of damage- that was its entire purpose.
I thought you were going to take away prones in PVP since you nerfed prone encounters from GWFs and reduced damage from these, nice combo. Very interesting but i consider unfair changes i want to see what will you do with bull charge.
Ray of enfeeblement still benefits allies in PVP?
hmmmm.... still waiting for Storm Cage gentlemancrush
Edit OFFTOP: Is it only me or is forum banner (neverwinter shadmowmantle/curse of IWD) overlaps on each other
Don't start with that, the only power of the game that would cause that on a HR is Ray of Frost and that's why you have encounters and dailies. Gentlemancrush said "This will help them eat more sustained damage without impacting burst damage in any really immediate way." and RoF is ideal for that.
HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
SW Soulbinder Fury
Lol they already fixed that and it was a joke, I was one of those CWs and we all had a big laugh.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
..the world may never know.
Until it gets added to the preview
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
ur forgetting the fact thats the HR not fighting back. in a 1v1, literally as soon as the HR can cast 1 root from hindering shot. the cw is dead in the next 2-3 hits
Mike... Shards was not a single target spell... its an AoE. While its great for PvP... that's not what the Wizard class is. That's the Warlock.
If they really want to go with this, they need to make a different class. Because Turning the CW into a Striker class (aka, single target) and removing the AoEs is basically doing just that. In which case they're going to have to seriously power up the Single Target damage spells.
Thats not what the Wizard class is.
Yea but in reality not every situation demands high AoE damage and their nurf was overall, making it horrid for single target and still underpowered for multiple targets. The way I see it, if they have to do some kind of nurf to the shard, may aswell be multiplicative so you can still have some effectiveness from it
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
The developers were aware of the issue and put in a fix already.
what they fixed HRs ability 1 shot people with a 40k aimshot? they fixed thornward ticking for 9k crits per tick with over 100% crit chance?, they fixed the ability to perma root people to death?........ ye try again m8
Actually it makes no sense, the Control Wizard in D&D which is what this game is supposed to be controls the battlefield by using large damaging AoE spells thus forcing the enemies to split up to avoid damage and rendering them in-effective. The control wizard is and was never about freezing people in place or knocking them down or any of that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> it was always about area of effect damage terrain manipulation. This idea that control wizard means to incapacitate and not damage comes from the lack of knowledge about the D&D setting. Also the only reason you meter watchers are seeing CW's topping the damage charts is because they are doing AoE damage. Where are they when it comes to single target damage? Right where they are supposed to be, lower than everyone else. They are not the best damager in the game they just happen to have more AoE so hitting 15 mobs for 1k each ends up doing more damage than hitting one mob for 5k but the effect is the CW did less damage on the boss but effects the entire battle to clean up his friends. That is the essence of the CW, parse their damage on single targets compared to similar gear and skill TR or GWF or even good HR and you will see its not so OP to need this massive reduction in effectiveness.
I think that would be going in the wrong direction. Currently the DPS output from CWs is extreme. What they are trying to do is throttle it back a bit and reign it in. They are also trying to create a clear division between control and damage builds. The end result is we should have some unique and varied builds for CWs instead of The One Build. I'm actually considering switching my CW from Thaum (DPS) to Oppressor (Control) with these changes.
On the GWF side they are doing something similar with Destroyer as DPS and Sentinel as a tank. The HR division between melee and archery is a bit more complicated though (dare say messy). It should be interesting in the end though.
I think that's the point , to try to make GF more useful in future . I like the sound of the change but have yet to try it out but CW sounds like it will be able to lock down large numbers of enemy mobs at least ,if nothing else.
They can buff the TAB version of it because its needed in PvP. And to be honest all these changes are forcing everyone to the oppressor tree in both PvP and PvE. Thaum and Renegade lack the DPS and the control. Only reason Oppressor might be good is for the shatter.
Looks to me like they want all CWs to switch to Oppressor or quit.
So what damage boosts are the giving GFs?
Unfortunantly they dont listen.. with the changes to CW damage nerf on AoE the name of the game D&D is misleading
At the moment, that's how it is. But be patient. They're listening and making changes based on feeback. There's still plenty of time until this goes live. We still haven't even been able to test the Thaumaturge tree or the new cooldown on Eye of the Storm since the former was bugged and the latter hasn't made it to the preview server yet.
And just so people are aware, there are still builds capable of dishing out a healthy amount of damage. Last night I started the HE Rescue the Prospectors with 7 minutes remaining. I was able to take down all of the starting mobs and all of the reinforcements in 5 minutes. The boss killed me with 1 minute left in the HE. Given more time I probably could have beaten it. That's quite a bit of damage in a small amount of time. However, the build I was using bore no resemblance to my current one. I had to completely alter my build to make it work. I think that is what has people the most freaked out. It's not that they're making the damage totally disappear, it's that the builds and spell rotations that people have come to know and love are being neutered. But rest assured there are still other ways to get the job done.