Ok! that works its the same thing though... Nerf GWF because they are OP, or buff everyone else because GWF are so OP!
My friend... this endless cycle of nerfing is what keeps causing these problems over and over. This latest round has everything hosed up so badly that it did the EXACT OPPOSITE of anything BALANCED... and only made the situation worse... but this is a common occurrence because these seem to be done without forethought and thinking things through...
It is time for the Devs to admit they made a mistake, and reverse course. This short sighted policy of "keep nerfing and HAS to work sooner or later".....is a failure and will continue to be a failure over and over, and only create more problems in the end.
It has played itself out for ALL to see repeatedly.
There's not even a question at this point...
They will continue to keep creating their own problems until they understand this simple fact.
So the solution at this point... is to reverse course and understand you made a mistake... and undo your own mistakes.
like i said all this crying over GWF DPS. we are sapposed to have highest DPS.we have a two handed weapon. and were not that op. ill state it again. when you go up against a GWF 4-5 k higher than you your ganna get squashed like a little bug. period. and that makes sense. Ive fought plenty of all classes and honestly where not as OP as people think. your just sad cause you keep dieing. why not try and look what your doing wrong. ive fought CWs that stand there and try to take it head on and when i kill them there "oh your class is so OP" no your kinda stupid. you just tried to take me hit for hit. NEVER GANNA HAPPEN. i know plenty of cws that take me on and win. using control and dodge to keep me at a distant. and TRs that move around so dang fast it gives me a head ache and kill me with only a few well placed encounters.
like i said all this crying over GWF DPS. we are sapposed to have highest DPS.we have a two handed weapon. and were not that op. ill state it again. when you go up against a GWF 4-5 k higher than you your ganna get squashed like a little bug. period. and that makes sense. Ive fought plenty of all classes and honestly where not as OP as people think. your just sad cause you keep dieing. why not try and look what your doing wrong. ive fought CWs that stand there and try to take it head on and when i kill them there "oh your class is so OP" no your kinda stupid. you just tried to take me hit for hit. NEVER GANNA HAPPEN. i know plenty of cws that take me on and win. using control and dodge to keep me at a distant. and TRs that move around so dang fast it gives me a head ache and kill me with only a few well placed encounters.
Lol. Now I know you're just trolling. Or you have a 4k GS GWF.
like i said all this crying over GWF DPS. we are sapposed to have highest DPS.we have a two handed weapon. and were not that op. ill state it again. when you go up against a GWF 4-5 k higher than you your ganna get squashed like a little bug. period. and that makes sense. Ive fought plenty of all classes and honestly where not as OP as people think. .
GWFs are basically fighting a bunch of helpless punching bags who cannot fight back at this point because all their normal counters to ALL the GWF powers are completely nerfed...
So... one side's stuff works... the other sides does not.... Can you with a straight face tell me the GWfs would be holding all the top spots.... if not for Control Power Nerfs on DCs and CWs... and the Massive Damage nerf to Rogues?
You're lying if you think so...
Ergo, what you REALLY have is a bunch of wannabe's playing GWFs thinking they're uber when in reality they're ONLY uber.... because the other classes counters to ALL the GWFs effects.... have been nerfed into the ground.
Causing these very problems....
Basically.... a GWF is ONLY invulnerable.... or OP... because of all these assanine short sighted nerfs that CAUSED this problem in the first place. Its got nothing to do with ANY actual GWF powers.
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iaccidentally47Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2014
I don't see any need to get involved in the QQ fest here, but I will give a little personal info just because none of you seem to know anything about what a destroyer GWF is actually like in pvp. I played a destroyer GWF in pvp before mod3, and did very well.
here's my stats, since some seem to think "destroyer isnt nearly as tanky as sent"
-38k HP
-43.5% damage resist from defense
-21.5% tenacity
-23% deflect
so... yeah, that's plenty tanky. sure, sent can be super tanky and near impossible to kill. Then again, so can a well geared and well played DC, GF, TR, HR... even a few CW. The people you are QQ'ing about are well geared and well played. Yes, destroyer hits very hard. Newsflash - it is supposed to. Destroyer is the damage dealing tree. IBS hits no harder (actually significantly less hard) as shocking execution did (and still does). It is a slow, telegraphed cast as well, with a long cooldown. In all honesty, it probably is hitting a little too hard, but I don't see it as being very OP. It is a high risk high reward spec, and it always has been.
Miss Anthropy - 15.7k CW | Miss Andrist - 19k GWF | DC (14.5k) | TR (14.5k) | HR(14k) | GF(15.5k)
Lowbies: DC (level 31) | HR (level 16)
You can almost always find me in the legit channel. Happy Adventuring!
GWF guide: click me
I can be a little understanding because I realize that most of the comments in this thread are by players who have very little comparative exposure to PvP in this game or who exclusively roll with pugs. That being said, there is a shocking level of ignorance of various classes strengths and weaknesses that I thought were pretty elementary. I was going to write a long post here, but I don't think many of the complainers are actually interested in learning anything, they just merely want to vent.
Fine. Vent away.
Anyway, as for who holds the top slots on the leader board - it's people who roll exclusively with premades (and good ones). I know what they're doing and some of them are engaging in behaviour that borders on exploits. I think this is a more pressing issue and I'm wondering if now that the leader board is making some of this stuff more apparent if Cryptic is going to do something about the manipulation of the matching system or not.
I don't see any need to get involved in the QQ fest here, but I will give a little personal info just because none of you seem to know anything about what a destroyer GWF is actually like in pvp. I played a destroyer GWF in pvp before mod3, and did very well.
here's my stats, since some seem to think "destroyer isnt nearly as tanky as sent"
-38k HP
-43.5% damage resist from defense
-21.5% tenacity
-23% deflect
so... yeah, that's plenty tanky. sure, sent can be super tanky and near impossible to kill. Then again, so can a well geared and well played DC, GF, TR, HR... even a few CW. The people you are QQ'ing about are well geared and well played. Yes, destroyer hits very hard. Newsflash - it is supposed to. Destroyer is the damage dealing tree. IBS hits no harder (actually significantly less hard) as shocking execution did (and still does). It is a slow, telegraphed cast as well, with a long cooldown. In all honesty, it probably is hitting a little too hard, but I don't see it as being very OP. It is a high risk high reward spec, and it always has been.
IBS hits harder than shocking execution does now, and shocking is a daily on the slowest AP generating class. Actually from what I have seen in PVE IBS hits harder than shocking did before (seen over 150k crit with IBS but there were debuffs involved I am sure).
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
You gotta be kidding? GWF are a CW's bane!!!!! a CW sees a GWF they know get outta dodge or you will soon be dead...
GWF needs a colossal nerf. I managed to kill a couple, but 3 rounds of unstoppable before dying is broken beyond imagining. Especially with soulforged.
IBS hits harder than shocking execution does now, and shocking is a daily on the slowest AP generating class. Actually from what I have seen in PVE IBS hits harder than shocking did before (seen over 150k crit with IBS but there were debuffs involved I am sure).
No. It. Does. Not.
In order for a GWF to put up these crazy numbers, several things must be in place:
1) He needs a Perfect Vorpal.
2) He needs to have gone through at least 2 unstoppable rotations to stack destroyers purpose within the last 20 seconds, and have primarily been using sure strike.
3) He needs to have proned you with Takedown.
4) He needs to land a crit. (Otherwise you're looking at, with about 6-7k power, a hit of about 8k before mitigation, with all the previous factors in place).
5) The target needs to be at already low HP, < 50%
6) He needs to have devoted at least 5 feat points to enhancing IBS as well as have gone to the end of the destroyer tree.
Finally, if all of these things happen (and yes they do happen), then you'll see a crazy 11-14k hit on someone with an encounter power. And the things you have to give up in order to make this work... well, let's say it's not for the faint of heart, because anyone who's putting up these kinds of numbers on a regular basis will have (with current gear loadouts) about 29k HP (assuming rank 9 enchants), maybe 38% DR and 35% (ish?) deflect if they're using the 4 piece profound set bonus (and they need to be using the destroyer set, not the sentinel set otherwise their damage will not go that high).
There is a shocking amount of ignorance on these forums. People really need to get off their asses and learn about the mechanics of other classes. I used to have a hell of a time fighting perma-stealth TR's until I spent the time figuring out what their encounter rotations were and the mechanics of their stealth ability. I didn't QQ about it all over the forums - I just educated myself.
I don't see any need to get involved in the QQ fest here, but I will give a little personal info just because none of you seem to know anything about what a destroyer GWF is actually like in pvp. I played a destroyer GWF in pvp before mod3, and did very well.
here's my stats, since some seem to think "destroyer isnt nearly as tanky as sent"
-38k HP
-43.5% damage resist from defense
-21.5% tenacity
-23% deflect
so... yeah, that's plenty tanky. sure, sent can be super tanky and near impossible to kill. Then again, so can a well geared and well played DC, GF, TR, HR... even a few CW. The people you are QQ'ing about are well geared and well played. Yes, destroyer hits very hard. Newsflash - it is supposed to. Destroyer is the damage dealing tree. IBS hits no harder (actually significantly less hard) as shocking execution did (and still does). It is a slow, telegraphed cast as well, with a long cooldown. In all honesty, it probably is hitting a little too hard, but I don't see it as being very OP. It is a high risk high reward spec, and it always has been.
No other class can hit a I WIN button and regenerate hp become immune to CC, run faster, swing faster, build action points faster, gain high DR, and heal!!!
None of those other classes albeit maybe, maybe a super uber geared GF thats really good at his class. When a freshly geared **** GWF can wreck havoc right out of the gate.
GWF shuld need to spec Tank / Utility / or DPS not be able to have all 3 its ridiculous!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
In order for a GWF to put up these crazy numbers, several things must be in place:
1) He needs a Perfect Vorpal.
2) He needs to have gone through at least 2 unstoppable rotations to stack destroyers purpose within the last 20 seconds, and have primarily been using sure strike.
3) He needs to have proned you with Takedown.
4) He needs to land a crit. (Otherwise you're looking at, with about 6-7k power, a hit of about 8k before mitigation, with all the previous factors in place).
5) The target needs to be at already low HP, < 50%
6) He needs to have devoted at least 5 feat points to enhancing IBS as well as have gone to the end of the destroyer tree.
Finally, if all of these things happen (and yes they do happen), then you'll see a crazy 11-14k hit on someone with an encounter power. And the things you have to give up in order to make this work... well, let's say it's not for the faint of heart, because anyone who's putting up these kinds of numbers on a regular basis will have (with current gear loadouts) about 29k HP (assuming rank 9 enchants), maybe 38% DR and 35% (ish?) deflect if they're using the 4 piece profound set bonus (and they need to be using the destroyer set, not the sentinel set otherwise their damage will not go that high).
There is a shocking amount of ignorance on these forums. People really need to get off their asses and learn about the mechanics of other classes. I used to have a hell of a time fighting perma-stealth TR's until I spent the time figuring out what their encounter rotations were and the mechanics of their stealth ability. I didn't QQ about it all over the forums - I just educated myself.
Watch the insults, please, I didn't call you ignorant and I will not stand for it myself. Do you realize that all of the things you mentioned were also required by a TR before with SE (exchange GWF feats/powers with TR ones). I told you exactly what I have seen and parsed and you are basically calling me a liar and an ignorant one at that. I indicated PvE as well so I cannot say regarding PvP but I gave the truth and I will state it again for you so that you realize the certainty of my conviction -- IBS hits harder than SE does now. I would actually be surprised if any TR uses SE anymore considering its limitations and that our AE daily hits twice as hard on base damage -- and is instant. If you doubt me than run a combat log in some PvE combat with a TR and a GWF and see for yourself what is what. I realize there are more particular build requirements for a GWF to achieve maximum IBS capability so perhaps use a minimal and a maximal build and just see how they compare with eachother. When doing this realize that SE is a daily power as well and then educate yourself with some truth and while you are at it educate yourself with a bit of manners too.
In order for a GWF to put up these crazy numbers, several things must be in place:
1) He needs a Perfect Vorpal.
2) He needs to have gone through at least 2 unstoppable rotations to stack destroyers purpose within the last 20 seconds, and have primarily been using sure strike.
3) He needs to have proned you with Takedown.
4) He needs to land a crit. (Otherwise you're looking at, with about 6-7k power, a hit of about 8k before mitigation, with all the previous factors in place).
5) The target needs to be at already low HP, < 50%
6) He needs to have devoted at least 5 feat points to enhancing IBS as well as have gone to the end of the destroyer tree.
Finally, if all of these things happen (and yes they do happen), then you'll see a crazy 11-14k hit on someone with an encounter power. And the things you have to give up in order to make this work... well, let's say it's not for the faint of heart, because anyone who's putting up these kinds of numbers on a regular basis will have (with current gear loadouts) about 29k HP (assuming rank 9 enchants), maybe 38% DR and 35% (ish?) deflect if they're using the 4 piece profound set bonus (and they need to be using the destroyer set, not the sentinel set otherwise their damage will not go that high).
There is a shocking amount of ignorance on these forums. People really need to get off their asses and learn about the mechanics of other classes. I used to have a hell of a time fighting perma-stealth TR's until I spent the time figuring out what their encounter rotations were and the mechanics of their stealth ability. I didn't QQ about it all over the forums - I just educated myself.
I can speak to open world pvp. I got hit with 34k IBS of which 26k actually went through. This was from a gwf coming off a horse, first rotation, no takedown. I was at full health and there is no way he had 2 stacks of destroyers purpose. I am full profound (20%tenacity) with 30% defense on top of that.
To be fair, I have not seen it hit that hard in domination
In order for a GWF to put up these crazy numbers, several things must be in place:
1) He needs a Perfect Vorpal.
2) He needs to have gone through at least 2 unstoppable rotations to stack destroyers purpose within the last 20 seconds, and have primarily been using sure strike.
3) He needs to have proned you with Takedown.
4) He needs to land a crit. (Otherwise you're looking at, with about 6-7k power, a hit of about 8k before mitigation, with all the previous factors in place).
5) The target needs to be at already low HP, < 50%
6) He needs to have devoted at least 5 feat points to enhancing IBS as well as have gone to the end of the destroyer tree.
Finally, if all of these things happen (and yes they do happen), then you'll see a crazy 11-14k hit on someone with an encounter power. And the things you have to give up in order to make this work... well, let's say it's not for the faint of heart, because anyone who's putting up these kinds of numbers on a regular basis will have (with current gear loadouts) about 29k HP (assuming rank 9 enchants), maybe 38% DR and 35% (ish?) deflect if they're using the 4 piece profound set bonus (and they need to be using the destroyer set, not the sentinel set otherwise their damage will not go that high).
There is a shocking amount of ignorance on these forums. People really need to get off their asses and learn about the mechanics of other classes. I used to have a hell of a time fighting perma-stealth TR's until I spent the time figuring out what their encounter rotations were and the mechanics of their stealth ability. I didn't QQ about it all over the forums - I just educated myself.
I can't stress enough how completely inaccurate this man's post is.. I decided to gear my alt GWF just to troll. For 1, you don't need a vorpal to see big hits i was using a greater plaguefire (which stacks destroyer's purpose very fast mind you) and was regularly hitting 8-10k takedowns with 10-15k ibs. Not to mention the absurd CDs of takedown and roar combined with the feat of 50% cd reduction. Takedown is on a 2s CD when it misses and a 5s cd when it lands. This allows a GWF to spam skills without any consequences whatsoever.
Bottom line is, The 2nd tankiest class in the game has been given the most CC of any class with 3 prones. Arguably the best TAB in the game. Spammable gap closer. Possibly the best mobility now with mounting having a longer delay. And to top it all of it is now the most burst heavy, highest DPS class in the game with a full rotation upwards of 30K damage on geared opponents mind you.
This is speaking both from playing a heavily geared HR and from the perspective of gearing an Alt GWF.
I don't want to hear about what you gwfs had to sacrifice because when it comes down to it, The rewards far outweigh the risks.
I can't stress enough how completely inaccurate this man's post is.. I decided to gear my alt GWF just to troll. For 1, you don't need a vorpal to see big hits i was using a greater plaguefire (which stacks destroyer's purpose very fast mind you) and was regularly hitting 8-10k takedowns with 10-15k ibs. Not to mention the absurd CDs of takedown and roar combined with the feat of 50% cd reduction. Takedown is on a 2s CD when it misses and a 5s cd when it lands. This allows a GWF to spam skills without any consequences whatsoever.
Bottom line is, The 2nd tankiest class in the game has been given the most CC of any class with 3 prones. Arguably the best TAB in the game. Spammable gap closer. Possibly the best mobility now with mounting having a longer delay. And to top it all of it is now the most burst heavy, highest DPS class in the game with a full rotation upwards of 30K damage on geared opponents mind you.
This is speaking both from playing a heavily geared HR and from the perspective of gearing an Alt GWF.
I don't want to hear about what you gwfs had to sacrifice because when it comes down to it, The rewards far outweigh the risks.
People lie you know " Don't nerf me bro"!
We all know GWF requires no skill and is the most OP class in the game second would be perma stealth.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I can't stress enough how completely inaccurate this man's post is.. I decided to gear my alt GWF just to troll. For 1, you don't need a vorpal to see big hits i was using a greater plaguefire (which stacks destroyer's purpose very fast mind you) and was regularly hitting 8-10k takedowns with 10-15k ibs. Not to mention the absurd CDs of takedown and roar combined with the feat of 50% cd reduction. Takedown is on a 2s CD when it misses and a 5s cd when it lands. This allows a GWF to spam skills without any consequences whatsoever.
Bottom line is, The 2nd tankiest class in the game has been given the most CC of any class with 3 prones. Arguably the best TAB in the game. Spammable gap closer. Possibly the best mobility now with mounting having a longer delay. And to top it all of it is now the most burst heavy, highest DPS class in the game with a full rotation upwards of 30K damage on geared opponents mind you.
This is speaking both from playing a heavily geared HR and from the perspective of gearing an Alt GWF.
I don't want to hear about what you gwfs had to sacrifice because when it comes down to it, The rewards far outweigh the risks.
You made a public claim, I think you should back it up with public proof.
I have no reason to lie, my HR's name is CriticaL, look me up on the gateway or inspect me i'm not going to go out of my way to take screenshots and post them just because you asked.
I have no reason to lie, my HR's name is CriticaL, look me up on the gateway or inspect me i'm not going to go out of my way to take screenshots and post them just because you asked.
Oh, okay. Well then I guess I'll have to wonder how your alt is consistently putting up 30k rotations against fully geared opponents when my 17k GS main can't.
Oh, okay. Well then I guess I'll have to wonder how your alt is consistently putting up 30k rotations against fully geared opponents when my 17k GS main can't.
Clearly, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to defend your class right now.
Actually, I was hoping you'd tell me how you're doing it. I mean, give me your GWF alt's name so I can check him out on the gateway (not your HR - I don't know how to find people's alts with just their forum handle, is there a trick to that too, or were you obliquely dodging my question to prove your claim?)
Actually, I was hoping you'd tell me how you're doing it. I mean, give me your GWF alt's name so I can check him out on the gateway (not your HR - I don't know how to find people's alts with just their forum handle, is there a trick to that too, or were you obliquely dodging my question to prove your claim?)
Best GWF NA@lunatic211 (clearly a troll joke name)
My empty enchant slots are just rad 10s i switch between characters.
Best GWF NA@lunatic211 (clearly a troll joke name)
My empty enchant slots are just rad 10s i switch between characters.
Just took a peek. I see you're rocking that heroic duelist set.
I think it's mathematically impossible for you to put up a 15k IBS crit on a "fully geared" opponent (your words) without serious buffs, or debuffs to the same opponent. I've hit you recently (your hunter) with one for about 12k (p.vorpal on FD sword) and I have about twice as much power as your GWF does, and 24% arm pen (and I had marked you at the time).
Just took a peek. I see you're rocking that heroic duelist set.
I think it's mathematically impossible for you to put up a 15k IBS crit on a "fully geared" opponent (your words) without serious buffs, or debuffs to the same opponent. I've hit you recently (your hunter) with one for about 12k (p.vorpal on FD sword) and I have about twice as much power as your GWF does, and 24% arm pen (and I had marked you at the time).
i was using a greater plaguefire (which stacks destroyer's purpose very fast mind you) and was regularly hitting 8-10k takedowns with 10-15k ibs.
I believe i said 10-15K, not 15K. So please do not twist my words to make your arguement look correct.
I can speak to open world pvp. I got hit with 34k IBS of which 26k actually went through. This was from a gwf coming off a horse, first rotation, no takedown. I was at full health and there is no way he had 2 stacks of destroyers purpose. I am full profound (20%tenacity) with 30% defense on top of that.
To be fair, I have not seen it hit that hard in domination
It is for these and other that do not take these feedbacks seriously.
destroyer is official, tested for over a month. crying is free.
"Great Weapon Fighter protector"
"Your reckless nature consumes you and is time to avenge on any class that snobbed you pre mod2:Every hit on a non GWf in pvp increases your damage for 20% for 6 seconds.this stacks up to 25 times"
WoW im loving this one!!!!! but dude dont be giving any crazy ideas to anybody :rolleyes:
i was using a greater plaguefire (which stacks destroyer's purpose very fast mind you) and was regularly hitting 8-10k takedowns with 10-15k ibs.
I believe i said 10-15K, not 15K. So please do not twist my words to make your arguement look correct.
I'm not twisting anything. I'm just trying to get at the nuance of what you were saying.
At your power level (even adjusting for swapping in the radiant enchants), IBS should be hitting for around 5k or so without crit. So add 40% to that to assume that you have a full stack of destroyers purpose, that means about 7k yellow damage before mitigation. I guess you probably have the critical severity feat (name escapes me at the moment), so that's what - 90% severity? So around 13300 tops crit damage without mitigation. I suppose the 10% bonus from being in unstoppable could push that up to 14.5-15k, but then that's with 0% mitigation from the target (and of course, everyone has 10% innate mitigation in PvP to damage and crits).
So... how is this happening? Particularly against geared opponents? What are you doing that's making this happen?
I'm not twisting anything. I'm just trying to get at the nuance of what you were saying.
At your power level (even adjusting for swapping in the radiant enchants), IBS should be hitting for around 5k or so without crit. So add 40% to that to assume that you have a full stack of destroyers purpose, that means about 7k yellow damage before mitigation. I guess you probably have the critical severity feat (name escapes me at the moment), so that's what - 90% severity? So around 13300 tops crit damage without mitigation. I suppose the 10% bonus from being in unstoppable could push that up to 14.5-15k, but then that's with 0% mitigation from the target (and of course, everyone has 10% innate mitigation in PvP to damage and crits).
So... how is this happening? Particularly against geared opponents? What are you doing that's making this happen?
What is your IGN?
There are so many factors youa re leaving out, why even bother doing the math if you can't include every single factor? Do you even know what a plaguefire does? Are you even factoring in all the arpen along with resistance ignored included from CON? Are you even considering the destroyer purpose stacks which stack up VERY quickly with plaguefire? Don't talk to me about math until you include every single detail. Or you can just do what the rest of us have been doing and PLAY THE GAME and SEE for yourself!
Comments
My friend... this endless cycle of nerfing is what keeps causing these problems over and over. This latest round has everything hosed up so badly that it did the EXACT OPPOSITE of anything BALANCED... and only made the situation worse... but this is a common occurrence because these seem to be done without forethought and thinking things through...
It is time for the Devs to admit they made a mistake, and reverse course. This short sighted policy of "keep nerfing and HAS to work sooner or later".....is a failure and will continue to be a failure over and over, and only create more problems in the end.
It has played itself out for ALL to see repeatedly.
There's not even a question at this point...
They will continue to keep creating their own problems until they understand this simple fact.
So the solution at this point... is to reverse course and understand you made a mistake... and undo your own mistakes.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
GWFs are basically fighting a bunch of helpless punching bags who cannot fight back at this point because all their normal counters to ALL the GWF powers are completely nerfed...
So... one side's stuff works... the other sides does not.... Can you with a straight face tell me the GWfs would be holding all the top spots.... if not for Control Power Nerfs on DCs and CWs... and the Massive Damage nerf to Rogues?
You're lying if you think so...
Ergo, what you REALLY have is a bunch of wannabe's playing GWFs thinking they're uber when in reality they're ONLY uber.... because the other classes counters to ALL the GWFs effects.... have been nerfed into the ground.
Causing these very problems....
Basically.... a GWF is ONLY invulnerable.... or OP... because of all these assanine short sighted nerfs that CAUSED this problem in the first place. Its got nothing to do with ANY actual GWF powers.
here's my stats, since some seem to think "destroyer isnt nearly as tanky as sent"
-38k HP
-43.5% damage resist from defense
-21.5% tenacity
-23% deflect
so... yeah, that's plenty tanky. sure, sent can be super tanky and near impossible to kill. Then again, so can a well geared and well played DC, GF, TR, HR... even a few CW. The people you are QQ'ing about are well geared and well played. Yes, destroyer hits very hard. Newsflash - it is supposed to. Destroyer is the damage dealing tree. IBS hits no harder (actually significantly less hard) as shocking execution did (and still does). It is a slow, telegraphed cast as well, with a long cooldown. In all honesty, it probably is hitting a little too hard, but I don't see it as being very OP. It is a high risk high reward spec, and it always has been.
Lowbies: DC (level 31) | HR (level 16)
You can almost always find me in the legit channel. Happy Adventuring!
GWF guide: click me
Fine. Vent away.
Anyway, as for who holds the top slots on the leader board - it's people who roll exclusively with premades (and good ones). I know what they're doing and some of them are engaging in behaviour that borders on exploits. I think this is a more pressing issue and I'm wondering if now that the leader board is making some of this stuff more apparent if Cryptic is going to do something about the manipulation of the matching system or not.
IBS hits harder than shocking execution does now, and shocking is a daily on the slowest AP generating class. Actually from what I have seen in PVE IBS hits harder than shocking did before (seen over 150k crit with IBS but there were debuffs involved I am sure).
GWF needs a colossal nerf. I managed to kill a couple, but 3 rounds of unstoppable before dying is broken beyond imagining. Especially with soulforged.
No. It. Does. Not.
In order for a GWF to put up these crazy numbers, several things must be in place:
1) He needs a Perfect Vorpal.
2) He needs to have gone through at least 2 unstoppable rotations to stack destroyers purpose within the last 20 seconds, and have primarily been using sure strike.
3) He needs to have proned you with Takedown.
4) He needs to land a crit. (Otherwise you're looking at, with about 6-7k power, a hit of about 8k before mitigation, with all the previous factors in place).
5) The target needs to be at already low HP, < 50%
6) He needs to have devoted at least 5 feat points to enhancing IBS as well as have gone to the end of the destroyer tree.
Finally, if all of these things happen (and yes they do happen), then you'll see a crazy 11-14k hit on someone with an encounter power. And the things you have to give up in order to make this work... well, let's say it's not for the faint of heart, because anyone who's putting up these kinds of numbers on a regular basis will have (with current gear loadouts) about 29k HP (assuming rank 9 enchants), maybe 38% DR and 35% (ish?) deflect if they're using the 4 piece profound set bonus (and they need to be using the destroyer set, not the sentinel set otherwise their damage will not go that high).
There is a shocking amount of ignorance on these forums. People really need to get off their asses and learn about the mechanics of other classes. I used to have a hell of a time fighting perma-stealth TR's until I spent the time figuring out what their encounter rotations were and the mechanics of their stealth ability. I didn't QQ about it all over the forums - I just educated myself.
No other class can hit a I WIN button and regenerate hp become immune to CC, run faster, swing faster, build action points faster, gain high DR, and heal!!!
None of those other classes albeit maybe, maybe a super uber geared GF thats really good at his class. When a freshly geared **** GWF can wreck havoc right out of the gate.
GWF shuld need to spec Tank / Utility / or DPS not be able to have all 3 its ridiculous!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Watch the insults, please, I didn't call you ignorant and I will not stand for it myself. Do you realize that all of the things you mentioned were also required by a TR before with SE (exchange GWF feats/powers with TR ones). I told you exactly what I have seen and parsed and you are basically calling me a liar and an ignorant one at that. I indicated PvE as well so I cannot say regarding PvP but I gave the truth and I will state it again for you so that you realize the certainty of my conviction -- IBS hits harder than SE does now. I would actually be surprised if any TR uses SE anymore considering its limitations and that our AE daily hits twice as hard on base damage -- and is instant. If you doubt me than run a combat log in some PvE combat with a TR and a GWF and see for yourself what is what. I realize there are more particular build requirements for a GWF to achieve maximum IBS capability so perhaps use a minimal and a maximal build and just see how they compare with eachother. When doing this realize that SE is a daily power as well and then educate yourself with some truth and while you are at it educate yourself with a bit of manners too.
I can speak to open world pvp. I got hit with 34k IBS of which 26k actually went through. This was from a gwf coming off a horse, first rotation, no takedown. I was at full health and there is no way he had 2 stacks of destroyers purpose. I am full profound (20%tenacity) with 30% defense on top of that.
To be fair, I have not seen it hit that hard in domination
I can't stress enough how completely inaccurate this man's post is.. I decided to gear my alt GWF just to troll. For 1, you don't need a vorpal to see big hits i was using a greater plaguefire (which stacks destroyer's purpose very fast mind you) and was regularly hitting 8-10k takedowns with 10-15k ibs. Not to mention the absurd CDs of takedown and roar combined with the feat of 50% cd reduction. Takedown is on a 2s CD when it misses and a 5s cd when it lands. This allows a GWF to spam skills without any consequences whatsoever.
Bottom line is, The 2nd tankiest class in the game has been given the most CC of any class with 3 prones. Arguably the best TAB in the game. Spammable gap closer. Possibly the best mobility now with mounting having a longer delay. And to top it all of it is now the most burst heavy, highest DPS class in the game with a full rotation upwards of 30K damage on geared opponents mind you.
This is speaking both from playing a heavily geared HR and from the perspective of gearing an Alt GWF.
I don't want to hear about what you gwfs had to sacrifice because when it comes down to it, The rewards far outweigh the risks.
People lie you know " Don't nerf me bro"!
We all know GWF requires no skill and is the most OP class in the game second would be perma stealth.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Post a screen shot of your character sheet.
You are more than welcome to inspect me in game.
You made a public claim, I think you should back it up with public proof.
I have no reason to lie, my HR's name is CriticaL, look me up on the gateway or inspect me i'm not going to go out of my way to take screenshots and post them just because you asked.
Oh, okay. Well then I guess I'll have to wonder how your alt is consistently putting up 30k rotations against fully geared opponents when my 17k GS main can't.
I must really stink or something.
Clearly, because it's really not hard.
Clearly. Everyone's doing it these days.
Clearly, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to defend your class right now.
Actually, I was hoping you'd tell me how you're doing it. I mean, give me your GWF alt's name so I can check him out on the gateway (not your HR - I don't know how to find people's alts with just their forum handle, is there a trick to that too, or were you obliquely dodging my question to prove your claim?)
Best GWF NA@lunatic211 (clearly a troll joke name)
My empty enchant slots are just rad 10s i switch between characters.
Just took a peek. I see you're rocking that heroic duelist set.
I think it's mathematically impossible for you to put up a 15k IBS crit on a "fully geared" opponent (your words) without serious buffs, or debuffs to the same opponent. I've hit you recently (your hunter) with one for about 12k (p.vorpal on FD sword) and I have about twice as much power as your GWF does, and 24% arm pen (and I had marked you at the time).
i was using a greater plaguefire (which stacks destroyer's purpose very fast mind you) and was regularly hitting 8-10k takedowns with 10-15k ibs.
I believe i said 10-15K, not 15K. So please do not twist my words to make your arguement look correct.
It is for these and other that do not take these feedbacks seriously.
destroyer is official, tested for over a month. crying is free.
WoW im loving this one!!!!! but dude dont be giving any crazy ideas to anybody :rolleyes:
I'm not twisting anything. I'm just trying to get at the nuance of what you were saying.
At your power level (even adjusting for swapping in the radiant enchants), IBS should be hitting for around 5k or so without crit. So add 40% to that to assume that you have a full stack of destroyers purpose, that means about 7k yellow damage before mitigation. I guess you probably have the critical severity feat (name escapes me at the moment), so that's what - 90% severity? So around 13300 tops crit damage without mitigation. I suppose the 10% bonus from being in unstoppable could push that up to 14.5-15k, but then that's with 0% mitigation from the target (and of course, everyone has 10% innate mitigation in PvP to damage and crits).
So... how is this happening? Particularly against geared opponents? What are you doing that's making this happen?
What is your IGN?
There are so many factors youa re leaving out, why even bother doing the math if you can't include every single factor? Do you even know what a plaguefire does? Are you even factoring in all the arpen along with resistance ignored included from CON? Are you even considering the destroyer purpose stacks which stack up VERY quickly with plaguefire? Don't talk to me about math until you include every single detail. Or you can just do what the rest of us have been doing and PLAY THE GAME and SEE for yourself!