arunnerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited April 2014
I feel it would be important to cover races and classes found in the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide before others are introduced. So with that said, I think Dragonborn would be the next race to be introduced...although I'd prefer to see the Genasi.
There are also the Genasi from the Forgotten Realms campaign setting. Though the only issue with them is their elemental manifestation which would require several versions of them in Neverwinter.
A simple way to solve this issue is just making it an customization option in the character creation like the Tiefling horns, with 5 default types of Elemental Manifestations (Earthsoul, Firesoul, Stormsoul, Watersoul and Windsoul). If the Devs really wanted to go wild, they could include the Abyssal Genasi (Cindersoul, Causticsoul, Plaguesoul and Voidsoul) or even worse, the para-Genasi (dust, ember, ice, magma, ooze, sand, smoke, steam and sun).
Leanan Sidhe(not "The Dresde Files" fairy!)- NW Legit Channel Moderator
I'd definitely be more for Dragonborn, myself. We've got a brute race (half-orcs) but we don't have an "inhuman appearance" race, and Dragonborn would fill that slot really well. Further, with the Whole "Tyranny of Dragons" coming out in summer it'd be the perfect time to introduce them.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited April 2014
Aded a poll to the thread, only added Races found in the Players Handbooks, Neverwinter Campaign Setting, and Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (all 4e). I did not add races from the Supplements, as there are only 10 choices allowed in a poll.
After bugbear/minotaur choice.. I would like to see gnoll/werewolf/hyena race.
I would also like Goliath and Genasi races. Genasi are cool because they are elementals, including having fire hair, or earth skin, or water-like skin, or wind appearance. Here are examples of Genasi:
I won't mention dragonborn, because it's already been mentioned several times before by others.
Wow those are some 'interesting' races. Who on earth wants to play a minotaur or a goliath? Why can't you say aasimar? Instead we have to get complicated and pick the more obscure deva. What about half drow?
C'mon guys....
Oh and another thing we need more race related missions to make choosing a race more interesting.
In before someone says. But Aasimar isnt in 4th edition, Deva is.
Ok my bad.
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited April 2014
Honestly I'm not so sure we need more races...
But a Race Change Token would be nice.
Way back at the beginning of the game I took a Wood Elf as my race and played a CW. It wasn't the choice I would have preferred, but at the time there were no Sun elves or Moon elves. So it was my only choice.
And while I like the high dex for deflection and AoE resist, Slow Resist, and the +crit chances it gives. It wouldn't have been my first choice among the races had the current ones you now see been available.
So I'm not necessarily up for a new race in game... but I would like a Race Change Token.
The races you've listed are too exotic and would be a total pain in the *** to model gear around (especially genasi and azers, too much elemental effects). Teiflings are only (sorta) common in Toril now because Asmodeus joined the pantheon as a greater god, devas are immortal celestials, dragonborn are super rare and also foreign. Githzerai/Githyanki are outsiders like the Deva, Minotaur and shifters are evil extra-planar monsters also.
Only one I see on the list that makes sense to add is the gnome, the rest of these can hardly be considered player classes.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
The races you've listed are too exotic and would be a total pain in the *** to model gear around (especially genasi and azers, too much elemental effects). Teiflings are only (sorta) common in Toril now because Asmodeus joined the pantheon as a greater god, devas are immortal celestials, dragonborn are super rare and also foreign. Githzerai/Githyanki are outsiders like the Deva, Minotaur and shifters are evil extra-planar monsters also.
Only one I see on the list that makes sense to add is the gnome, the rest of these can hardly be considered player classes.
. . . Ahh but they come straight from the 4th edition players' handbooks as player races. That's why they're listed, they're the races we don't have yet that are found in 4th edition as player races. Also, the whole good and evil thing really has no bearing on player races in the Realms, never has. It is not impossible to find Chaotic Evil gold dragons or lawful good red dragons in the Realms, pre-4th edition of course, as with 4th edition we have Alignments & Personalities.
. . . Furthermore, the planes have never been a barring factor in the Realms as a whole. The Realms is a hot-spot so to speak on the astronomical scale, connected to many worlds and planes naturally (Spelljammer ports have been a part of the Realm's history for several thousand years). Furthermore, the world is ripe with magical portals and gateways to and from all over the multiverse.
. . . Ahh but they come straight from the 4th edition players' handbooks as player races. That's why they're listed, they're the races we don't have yet that are found in 4th edition as player races. Also, the whole good and evil thing really has no bearing on player races in the Realms, never has. It is not impossible to find Chaotic Evil gold dragons or lawful good red dragons in the Realms, pre-4th edition of course, as with 4th edition we have Alignments & Personalities. Furthermore, the planes have never been a barring factor in the Realms as a whole. The Realms is a hot-spot so to speak on the astronomical scale, connected to many worlds and planes naturally. Furthermore, the world is ripe with magical portals and gateways to and from all over the multiverse.
Yeah but having non-native races as PC's causes more problems than it could possibly solve. First off, most of these races have to be intentionally summoned from their native planes to even step foot on Toril. Normally circumstances are the only thing that causes evil creatures to aid good ones, very very few of their alignments ever actually change (they just act as whatever alignment they feel would be acceptable). The monstrous races are hardly intelligent by mortal standards and extra-planar immortal creatures tend to heavily resent being summoned from their homes (and evil ones just want to wreck havoc unabated in the mortal realm).
Unique personalities are always an exception of course, but it's circumstance that causes them, for instance, Deva's don't go to the mortal realm and work with adventurers unless a good god sends them.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Yeah but having non-native races as PC's causes more problems than it could possibly solve. First off, most of these races have to be intentionally summoned from their native planes to even step foot on Toril. Normally circumstances are the only thing that causes evil creatures to aid good ones, very very few of their alignments ever actually change (they just act as whatever alignment they feel would be acceptable). The monstrous races are hardly intelligent by mortal standards and extra-planar immortal creatures tend to heavily resent being summoned from their homes (and evil ones just want to wreck havoc unabated in the mortal realm).
Unique personalities are always an exception of course, but it's circumstance that causes them, for instance, Deva's don't go to the mortal realm and work with adventurers unless a good god sends them.
. . . Actually, if you read the 4th edition material, it quite well lays out the possibilities you are not taking into account. Also, it really sounds like you've been influenced by a custom campaign setting, for the Forgotten Realms are rife with the strange, bizarre and other-worldly possibilities. Everything you've stated as being mostly rare is actually quite common-place across the Realms. I'm especially struck back by your remark about intelligent monstrous races. This is the Forgotten Realms we're talking about here, yes?
. . . Actually, if you read the 4th edition material, it quite well lays out the possibilities you are not taking into account. Also, it really sounds like you've been influenced by a custom campaign setting, for the Forgotten Realms are rife with the strange, bizarre and other-worldly possibilities. Everything you've stated as being mostly rare is actually quite common-place across the Realms.
I suppose it could be considered common, as common as the wizards capable of casting the necessary spells, I would imagine. The thing is nearly all extra-planar creatures have their own magical traits and just because it's alignment may be close to the PC that summoned it doesn't necessarily mean it will sympathize with the mage and his party. In such cases where it does, the mage usually has to dominate the creature magically, anyhow. Having exotic creatures show up in times-of-need is one thing, having them as playable races is another.
If you roll a bugbear wizard with 18 int I will be skeptical to say the least... I'm not saying such creatures could never work with an adventuring group, just that implementing them into NW may be a bit, impractical.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
. . . Actually, if you read the 4th edition material, it quite well lays out the possibilities you are not taking into account. Also, it really sounds like you've been influenced by a custom campaign setting, for the Forgotten Realms are rife with the strange, bizarre and other-worldly possibilities. Everything you've stated as being mostly rare is actually quite common-place across the Realms. I'm especially struck back by your remark about intelligent monstrous races. This is the Forgotten Realms we're talking about here, yes?
Yeah but even in the Realms its still supposed to be pretty rare.
Its still a human dominated world... not some kind of mixed culture like Planescape, that's what sets the two apart.
While I certainly like seeing rarity... and out of the ordinary... its not supposed to be the common thing the way it usually turns into.
Most of those races are not supposed to be walking around in broad daylight, and they're still a spectacle and or seriously distrusted.
So... while what you are saying is true that you CAN see those, they're still rare, not common.
Deva's were a sad replacement for the Aasimar in 4th edition, but it was just another reason on a long list of reasons why 4th edition was a bit of failure among old school players. Deva's are derived from passive religions of Bhudism, Hinduism, and New Age Mythology. If a DM wants to include them in his world building, fine. But they do seem kind of out of place in a fantasy world based on medieval and dark age conceptions.
The Aasimar however, are the iconic celestial race that has evolved (along with the Tieflings on the yang end), being of divine birth and descended from Angels, Celestial Avatars, and other good aligned creatures. Much more fitting to the medeival and dark age scenerios.
When one summons thoughts of Battle Angels descending to wreak vengeance on demons and devils, one does not picture the passive Deva's. One pictures the Aasimar in full virtuous wrath.
Just my take. Love the game. But I would be stoked as many other players if they ever introduced a new race, and even not being 4th edition lore(although we have incorporated into our own gaming sessions), the Aasimar became a playable race.
So... while what you are saying is true that you CAN see those, they're still rare, not common.
Sorta like the apparatus of kwalish is suppose to be rare. Or extra planer and fey mounts. Or even the endless number of artifacts.
If we removed the stuff that was suppose to be very rare, and only focused on the common and mundane. It would simply become a common and mundane world.
As for the comment on the spell casting bugbear being unlikely. Mr. Orge magi would like to have a word with you.
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silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
If we removed the stuff that was suppose to be very rare, and only focused on the common and mundane. It would simply become a common and mundane world. .
Well that's actually the point... all this stuff that's suppose to be rare and unique and becoming common and... mundane.
Oh.. yawn... another artifact.
Oh yawn... my 1000th time seeing a tiefling riding a nightmare...
Sorta like the apparatus of kwalish is suppose to be rare. Or extra planer and fey mounts. Or even the endless number of artifacts.
If we removed the stuff that was suppose to be very rare, and only focused on the common and mundane. It would simply become a common and mundane world.
As for the comment on the spell casting bugbear being unlikely. Mr. Orge magi would like to have a word with you.
Pretty much this.
And, if a race is offered in the source books, its MEANT to be played and not too rare to be a player race. Check out 'Races of Faerun' sourcebook for some really awesome races (Feyri in particular would make a great addition to this game).
As an added note, Dragon born are not part of the Forgotten realms lore. I'm sure they could be shoe-horned in, but the Idea of them came about many decades after the history of the realms had become established.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited April 2014
Before dragonborn, we had Half-dragons. Mmmm. I love half-dragons.
Deva's were a sad replacement for the Aasimar in 4th edition, but it was just another reason on a long list of reasons why 4th edition was a bit of failure among old school players. Deva's are derived from passive religions of Bhudism, Hinduism, and New Age Mythology. If a DM wants to include them in his world building, fine. But they do seem kind of out of place in a fantasy world based on medieval and dark age conceptions.
The Aasimar however, are the iconic celestial race that has evolved (along with the Tieflings on the yang end), being of divine birth and descended from Angels, Celestial Avatars, and other good aligned creatures. Much more fitting to the medeival and dark age scenerios.
When one summons thoughts of Battle Angels descending to wreak vengeance on demons and devils, one does not picture the passive Deva's. One pictures the Aasimar in full virtuous wrath.
Just my take. Love the game. But I would be stoked as many other players if they ever introduced a new race, and even not being 4th edition lore(although we have incorporated into our own gaming sessions), the Aasimar became a playable race.
Well, since they made angels more inhuman in their nature, the change was very fitting.
Why do angels and other celestials have to be able to reproduce with mortals?
Although it could be nice to trace ancestory back to some celestial, it makes them far too mundane on the other hand.
Intermingling with mortals is a trait that fits far better with infernal beings, imho.
Comments
If this is true... I'm going to be a VERY happy Tiefling....
Could have an intel bonus, control resist, and 1 xtra feat.. something in this zone could be very nice
A simple way to solve this issue is just making it an customization option in the character creation like the Tiefling horns, with 5 default types of Elemental Manifestations (Earthsoul, Firesoul, Stormsoul, Watersoul and Windsoul). If the Devs really wanted to go wild, they could include the Abyssal Genasi (Cindersoul, Causticsoul, Plaguesoul and Voidsoul) or even worse, the para-Genasi (dust, ember, ice, magma, ooze, sand, smoke, steam and sun).
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I'd like to see Bugbear / Minotaur the most!!!
Here's pictures of an awesome brutal bugbear!!
I would also like Goliath and Genasi races. Genasi are cool because they are elementals, including having fire hair, or earth skin, or water-like skin, or wind appearance. Here are examples of Genasi:
I won't mention dragonborn, because it's already been mentioned several times before by others.
Though honestly, anything would be cool. Except Gnomes. I never liked Gnomes.
C'mon guys....
Oh and another thing we need more race related missions to make choosing a race more interesting.
Ok my bad.
But a Race Change Token would be nice.
Way back at the beginning of the game I took a Wood Elf as my race and played a CW. It wasn't the choice I would have preferred, but at the time there were no Sun elves or Moon elves. So it was my only choice.
And while I like the high dex for deflection and AoE resist, Slow Resist, and the +crit chances it gives. It wouldn't have been my first choice among the races had the current ones you now see been available.
So I'm not necessarily up for a new race in game... but I would like a Race Change Token.
Only one I see on the list that makes sense to add is the gnome, the rest of these can hardly be considered player classes.
. . . Furthermore, the planes have never been a barring factor in the Realms as a whole. The Realms is a hot-spot so to speak on the astronomical scale, connected to many worlds and planes naturally (Spelljammer ports have been a part of the Realm's history for several thousand years). Furthermore, the world is ripe with magical portals and gateways to and from all over the multiverse.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Yeah but having non-native races as PC's causes more problems than it could possibly solve. First off, most of these races have to be intentionally summoned from their native planes to even step foot on Toril. Normally circumstances are the only thing that causes evil creatures to aid good ones, very very few of their alignments ever actually change (they just act as whatever alignment they feel would be acceptable). The monstrous races are hardly intelligent by mortal standards and extra-planar immortal creatures tend to heavily resent being summoned from their homes (and evil ones just want to wreck havoc unabated in the mortal realm).
Unique personalities are always an exception of course, but it's circumstance that causes them, for instance, Deva's don't go to the mortal realm and work with adventurers unless a good god sends them.
. . . Actually, if you read the 4th edition material, it quite well lays out the possibilities you are not taking into account. Also, it really sounds like you've been influenced by a custom campaign setting, for the Forgotten Realms are rife with the strange, bizarre and other-worldly possibilities. Everything you've stated as being mostly rare is actually quite common-place across the Realms. I'm especially struck back by your remark about intelligent monstrous races. This is the Forgotten Realms we're talking about here, yes?
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I suppose it could be considered common, as common as the wizards capable of casting the necessary spells, I would imagine. The thing is nearly all extra-planar creatures have their own magical traits and just because it's alignment may be close to the PC that summoned it doesn't necessarily mean it will sympathize with the mage and his party. In such cases where it does, the mage usually has to dominate the creature magically, anyhow. Having exotic creatures show up in times-of-need is one thing, having them as playable races is another.
If you roll a bugbear wizard with 18 int I will be skeptical to say the least... I'm not saying such creatures could never work with an adventuring group, just that implementing them into NW may be a bit, impractical.
Yeah but even in the Realms its still supposed to be pretty rare.
Its still a human dominated world... not some kind of mixed culture like Planescape, that's what sets the two apart.
While I certainly like seeing rarity... and out of the ordinary... its not supposed to be the common thing the way it usually turns into.
Most of those races are not supposed to be walking around in broad daylight, and they're still a spectacle and or seriously distrusted.
So... while what you are saying is true that you CAN see those, they're still rare, not common.
The Aasimar however, are the iconic celestial race that has evolved (along with the Tieflings on the yang end), being of divine birth and descended from Angels, Celestial Avatars, and other good aligned creatures. Much more fitting to the medeival and dark age scenerios.
When one summons thoughts of Battle Angels descending to wreak vengeance on demons and devils, one does not picture the passive Deva's. One pictures the Aasimar in full virtuous wrath.
Just my take. Love the game. But I would be stoked as many other players if they ever introduced a new race, and even not being 4th edition lore(although we have incorporated into our own gaming sessions), the Aasimar became a playable race.
Sorta like the apparatus of kwalish is suppose to be rare. Or extra planer and fey mounts. Or even the endless number of artifacts.
If we removed the stuff that was suppose to be very rare, and only focused on the common and mundane. It would simply become a common and mundane world.
As for the comment on the spell casting bugbear being unlikely. Mr. Orge magi would like to have a word with you.
Well that's actually the point... all this stuff that's suppose to be rare and unique and becoming common and... mundane.
Oh.. yawn... another artifact.
Oh yawn... my 1000th time seeing a tiefling riding a nightmare...
Which plane are we on again?
Pretty much this.
And, if a race is offered in the source books, its MEANT to be played and not too rare to be a player race. Check out 'Races of Faerun' sourcebook for some really awesome races (Feyri in particular would make a great addition to this game).
As an added note, Dragon born are not part of the Forgotten realms lore. I'm sure they could be shoe-horned in, but the Idea of them came about many decades after the history of the realms had become established.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Well, since they made angels more inhuman in their nature, the change was very fitting.
Why do angels and other celestials have to be able to reproduce with mortals?
Although it could be nice to trace ancestory back to some celestial, it makes them far too mundane on the other hand.
Intermingling with mortals is a trait that fits far better with infernal beings, imho.
Doesn't matter. What's considered playable in 4th edition is considered playable. Period.
This company should be the Neverwinter Team!
If one day after all the module testing on Preview a module launched that included a new race, imagine the hysteria!
Picked shifter, get a lot more people using the "alternate dress" setting on character sheet