1- Allow kick in pvp with party vote: lately alot of players choose to go afk once they see that they wont make it in top 5, many close games are with someone dieing multiple times due to your fabulous matchmaking and at some point they just stop playing leaving the rest of us in a 4v5, even if the team overall is winning.
2- Let replacements join a 4 man team: same behavior, at some point they decide to leave and play an alt. If is not a stomp they'll just leave resulting in 4v5.
Last 3 days i rarely been able to play a pvp game that doesnt turn in a 4v5 so please fix this.
The problem there would be why should I join a 4v5 which is probably going badly? The new player is already punished. Also would the kicked get queue banned? That's unfair if they were kicked by troll parties. What if they didn't? People would try to get kicked to avoid the queue ban.
One thing I want to see if getting points at a slower rate if you control a point but the enemy is still on it. It will prevent extremely slow matches where just 1 player can stop you from scoring which is particularly annoying if theyre a perma stealth or gwf.
The problem there would be why should I join a 4v5 which is probably going badly? The new player is already punished. Also would the kicked get queue banned? That's unfair if they were kicked by troll parties. What if they didn't? People would try to get kicked to avoid the queue ban.
One thing I want to see if getting points at a slower rate if you control a point but the enemy is still on it. It will prevent extremely slow matches where just 1 player can stop you from scoring which is particularly annoying if theyre a perma stealth or gwf.
if you have ever watched or played high end pvp (im a watcher ) then you would know that a very viable strat for groups is to assign someone to 1 and 3 from both teams. usually a dps class like hr/tr. contesting a point is most of the match, with spurts of making 10-20 points here and there while the loser of the fight runs back. good teams will adjust who is assigned by skill level. People assigned will leave to support the fight on 2, but as soon as they see thier assigned node contested they will go back. If another toon comes to help on 1-3 then that leaves 2 vulnerable. Points can only be made if the node is uncontested.
It's very interesting to watch, and why I feel they shouldn't change how nodes work.
if you have ever watched or played high end pvp (im a watcher ) then you would know that a very viable strat for groups is to assign someone to 1 and 3 from both teams. usually a dps class like hr/tr. contesting a point is most of the match, with spurts of making 10-20 points here and there while the loser of the fight runs back. good teams will adjust who is assigned by skill level. People assigned will leave to support the fight on 2, but as soon as they see thier assigned node contested they will go back. If another toon comes to help on 1-3 then that leaves 2 vulnerable. Points can only be made if the node is uncontested.
It's very interesting to watch, and why I feel they shouldn't change how nodes work.
The thing is stalemates can happen and can result in even 1 hour matches if the teams are well balanced which imo is both boring and unrewarding. Sure nodes should be contested, but there shouldn't imo be the possibility of both sides not scoring for prolonged times so should imo gain a smaller amount of points over time. Currently it's also possible for lower skilled players to contest their home cap and keep respawning and contesting even if they're not doing much which gives the rest of the team to make the difference as I myself have done on one of my toons when we perhaps shouldn't have won.
The problem there would be why should I join a 4v5 which is probably going badly? The new player is already punished. Also would the kicked get queue banned? That's unfair if they were kicked by troll parties. What if they didn't? People would try to get kicked to avoid the queue ban.
The trend now is to leave close, long games and not stomp ones
4 man vote cant be troll grps or an autokick from system if u stay 1 min in the base camp. Why wouldnt you join for some fast glory and the replacement wouldnt be affected by glory loss in case of defeat?
Or give the 4 man team a buff to have a fighting chance.
The trend now is to leave close, long games and not stomp ones
4 man vote cant be troll grps or an autokick from system if u stay 1 min in the base camp. Why wouldnt you join for some fast glory and the replacement wouldnt be affected by glory loss in case of defeat?
Or give the 4 man team a buff to have a fighting chance.
Well it was written that the new system was to normalise games so that they're not over too quickly or take too long. It's done a great job at fixing the first point, it's made the last one worse (although it doesn't happen toooo often). If you joined a 4v5 you'd get no glory if you didn't get the 450 points which is probably more likely if it is 4v5. Even if they did you don't get much for a loss and it would take time for them to get into the rhythm of the match, I just don't see the purpose. I'm not 100% totally against it though. Also for the 4 man buff, it'd be nice apart from kicking a **** to get the buff if he/she's getting decimated which is more the queues fault than theirs.
Well it was written that the new system was to normalise games so that they're not over too quickly or take too long. It's done a great job at fixing the first point, it's made the last one worse (although it doesn't happen toooo often). If you joined a 4v5 you'd get no glory if you didn't get the 450 points which is probably more likely if it is 4v5. Even if they did you don't get much for a loss and it would take time for them to get into the rhythm of the match, I just don't see the purpose. I'm not 100% totally against it though. Also for the 4 man buff, it'd be nice apart from kicking a **** to get the buff if he/she's getting decimated which is more the queues fault than theirs.
Purpose is to have fun, if is no fun people will stop que... i am rly close to give up once again pvping. It is extremely frustrating to have no tool to solve this kind of behavior.
In other games one of the two solution is up, replacement works good in small grps, while the second with a buff in bigger grps like 20v20.
Solution for no afk. Make match making not only for lvl, but also for Gear Score, now 9000-12000 GS players have to go PvP vs 15000-20000k... They kill in 3-4 hits, so where logic? So why no point to END pvp just stay AFK...
the problem with gear score matching is that you can currently swap gear after you enter a match so i could enter wearing low level gear and swap it once i'm waiting at the spawn camp. this would definitely put me at an advantage over other players.
now that could be corrected if they removed the ability to swap gear in a match, but that would have to be implemented. and i'm sure they considered these options when they opted to go with elo ranking instead.
people afk in pvp because there is no penalty yet.
Even if.
People would just leave the spawn, jump down, get killed purposely, repeat.
But go ahead demanding more penalties, I see they helped a lot so far alongside the broken ELO matchmaking. I guess you must be on the right track then. :rolleyes:
Also let me add that I personally don't believe the majority of the PVP community deserves the respect they call for. Play it out? 1v1? Sure, but not in this game. This is another story in premades, but PUGs consists of classless jerks mostly that I don't owe anything. Sure I have become part of the problem, but it's up to the devs to adjust the mechanics and solve it.
It's not only glory, you generally get little back when trying to be respectful.
4vs5 , which happens quite frequently in my experience means wasted time. ELO system does not work at all, or works so poorly that it seems to be non existant. The matches are only very rarely competitive. The vast majority are blowouts. The classes are not balanced, and wont even be addressed until mod3, and that is only 2.
There is a huge amount wrong with pvp at the moment, but like everything in the gaming world...it is what it is. If the devs can't figure out solutions to these basic problems, I doubt anything I say will make any difference. They are the professionals, afterall.
it is human nature for someone who is disgruntled to want to "go tell it on the mountains" and this is the majority of what we see on the forums. personally, i don't see a lot of this activity when i'm PvPing. and i'm sure that if you compared the complaints to the number of successful pvp matches in a day or a week or over the past month, the numbers just wouldn't compare. there are less afk complaints now than there were calls for a leaver penalty just three or four months ago.
but i'm sure that PWE is monitoring the feedback, the numbers and if a change is warranted, we'll see it over time.
People AFK because they die within seconds of reaching mid.
AFKing is the result of unbalanced PVP matches. No point giving someone cough syrup for their symptoms (AFK) and not giving them an antibiotic to treat the viral infection (Unbalanced PVP).
Still amazed that people refuse to acknowledge the lopsided nature of many PVP matches.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
it is human nature for someone who is disgruntled to want to "go tell it on the mountains" and this is the majority of what we see on the forums. personally, i don't see a lot of this activity when i'm PvPing. and i'm sure that if you compared the complaints to the number of successful pvp matches in a day or a week or over the past month, the numbers just wouldn't compare. there are less afk complaints now than there were calls for a leaver penalty just three or four months ago.
but i'm sure that PWE is monitoring the feedback, the numbers and if a change is warranted, we'll see it over time.
People AFK because they die within seconds of reaching mid.
AFKing is the result of unbalanced PVP matches. No point giving someone cough syrup for their symptoms (AFK) and not giving them an antibiotic to treat the viral infection (Unbalanced PVP).
Still amazed that people refuse to acknowledge the lopsided nature of many PVP matches.
Here is the way I see it...
In almost every MMO with PvP in it...
The Devs keep trying to "Balance" the classes. And what usually happens is that they don't get it right, they just p*ss off the PvE community in the process.
And there is nothing that can, realistically, be done to prevent that. (Unless you go with an all <only> PvP or PvE MMO.)
You just have to put up with it or move on to a different MMO and hope things are different there.
Narayan
Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
Narayan
I'm loving how keen a lot of people seem to be to use more "stick" approaches. "Penalty for X, penalty for Y, stop people doing this, stop people doing that" and so on.
These have been proven time and time again to work very poorly on the internet, where the shroud of anonymity puts any real fear of punishment far from people's minds.
As it currently stands, there is very, very little benefit to continue participating in a kerbstomp match, and little benefit to continue participating in a looong, more evenly-teamed match. The former will simply get you killed repeatedly for zero glory, and the latter will probably get you SOME glory, but at the cost of all your time. There isn't enough reward for staying with a crushing defeat, and there isn't enough reward for victory to make it worth fighting beyond a certain time-frame.
I mean, obviously everyone should be doing PvP because they want to, and the fighting and point-capping should be the reward in itself with the glory just being a bonus, but HAHAHAHHAHA no. This is the internet, and glory gets you stuff, so working out how to maximize glory returns is very much the order of business, I guess.
So I'd say "more rewards for longer matches, and more rewards for sticking with crappy one-sided matches" would be a better plan that coming up with increasingly elaborate and silly methods of punishing players who don't want to waste their time.
Things like reducing the disparity between victory and defeat: say...winners get +100 points, but actual glory awarded is based on score, so for a match that went 1000-999, both teams'd get a lot, with the winners getting an extra 100 just as a pat on the back. If we want to appeal to people's natural dickishness (since this is PvP after all), we could also make this come from a communal pool, say of 2000 points, so a 1000-999 result means 1000 points to each, whereas a 1000-100 result is more like 1800 to 200. This would motivate people to stick with a match that has gone 700-300, coz you probably won't WIN, but you might get up to 500 or so, and not only will that increase your reward, it would decrease the opponent's share of the reward.
Finally, to offset the time issue, have this pool build up over time, so a match that's over in five minutes only has a pool of 2000, whereas one that lasts 15 mins has 4000, and so on.
Yeah, you'd probably get people cap trading and extending matches forever to maximize glory rewards, but the beauty of this system is that it'd maximally reward these people only after effectively removing them from the circulating player-pool for the entire duration of their match.
morsitans, I think your idea has merit, but it would lead to less cap trading not more. Roflstomping teams wouldn't be so gracious as to permit cap trading if it meant that it would mean their glory reward would reduce. PVP guild premades would just pummel pug teams all day long and farm so much glory. So no, the glory should not come out of a common pool.
Well, on the other hand, a pugstomp wouldn't yield as much glory since it would be over so fast. You could, in theory, keep the same rules regarding minimum points, so if one team didn't manage to get over 100 or so: minimal/zero glory reward.
Ultimately we want a system that allows those who genuinely play for the experience to continue to do so, those who play for the experience (but also the glory) to feel that continued participation is worthwhile, and those who are just there for the glory to feel motivated to actually play rather than sit it out.
I might be a bit too pessimistic at times, but I credit myself of successfully foreseeing spawn camping. Leaving matches was also a development and, on its height, surely it was worse than what we see now.
The problem is, methods of how to deal with the new system as someone purely after glory just haven't spread. Truth be told, the only nerf they did was lowering the glory rewards all around. People who know how can still get their 3-4 wins in per event hour. On one char.
One last thing: In my eyes the current sloppy ELO contributes to the camping problem. People not only know that losing isn't rewarding, they also will have experienced by now that they'll eventually get an easy win handed to them by the matchmaking.
I play about 10 pvp matches per day in groups of 5. Just now this is how the 5 went for this morning.
1. total blow out my side 1000 - 70ish
2. My group consisted of 2 GF 2 Cleric 1 rogue. 1 cleric was a campfire girl, never left spawn. The other gf gave up about 4 minutes in.
3. Even looking sides. We lost the first engagement at center. disconnect of one of the team members(maybe legit, maybe not, who knows) Total blowout.
4. Us vs premade....everyone quit 5 minutes in, I simply died about 15 times, as i am stubborn. No offers of 1v1 just mass killed me. (premades are rare in my bracket to be fair)
5. My side lost 129-1000, 4vs5 as we had a campfire girl that quit later.
This is a fairly common occurance for me. I do not know if it is because of the bracket I am in or if it is normal. Evey 5 games I play though, There is at least 1 camper if not 2, and there are many more blowouts than close games.
this is pvp, and I am thinking that unless I get really good (hehe, yea right) and join a good guild, that this is how pvp will always be. If you just join the queue as random, this is representitive of what you will see.
I play half a dozen matches a day and even if I do encounter afkers, leavers, 8K GS, overwhelming wins and losses, almost half of the encounters are interesting with victory possibilities on each side.
This thread feels strangely dramatic.
Olaf, freelance guardian fighter.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
I play half a dozen matches a day and even if I do encounter afkers, leavers, 8K GS, overwhelming wins and losses, almost half of the encounters are interesting with victory possibilities on each side.
This thread feels strangely dramatic.
Maybe, maybe not. If at this point already half of the encounters go to waste, one and a half month after an update that was supposed to fix all the issues you mentioned was introduced, it's alarming.
I play half a dozen matches a day and even if I do encounter afkers, leavers, 8K GS, overwhelming wins and losses, almost half of the encounters are interesting with victory possibilities on each side.
I play half a dozen matches a day and even if I do encounter afkers, leavers, 8K GS, overwhelming wins and losses, almost half of the encounters are interesting with victory possibilities on each side.
This thread feels strangely dramatic.
so half a dozen equals 6 from which u had almost half interesting , that means 2. Yeah.. must be the drama )
Again pls put kick in place with replacement for domination. This thing was always up in Swtor and worked rly good without abuses.
Comments
Also, people complained when cryptic had ELO working at full strength
One thing I want to see if getting points at a slower rate if you control a point but the enemy is still on it. It will prevent extremely slow matches where just 1 player can stop you from scoring which is particularly annoying if theyre a perma stealth or gwf.
if you have ever watched or played high end pvp (im a watcher
It's very interesting to watch, and why I feel they shouldn't change how nodes work.
The thing is stalemates can happen and can result in even 1 hour matches if the teams are well balanced which imo is both boring and unrewarding. Sure nodes should be contested, but there shouldn't imo be the possibility of both sides not scoring for prolonged times so should imo gain a smaller amount of points over time. Currently it's also possible for lower skilled players to contest their home cap and keep respawning and contesting even if they're not doing much which gives the rest of the team to make the difference as I myself have done on one of my toons when we perhaps shouldn't have won.
The trend now is to leave close, long games and not stomp ones
4 man vote cant be troll grps or an autokick from system if u stay 1 min in the base camp. Why wouldnt you join for some fast glory and the replacement wouldnt be affected by glory loss in case of defeat?
Or give the 4 man team a buff to have a fighting chance.
Well it was written that the new system was to normalise games so that they're not over too quickly or take too long. It's done a great job at fixing the first point, it's made the last one worse (although it doesn't happen toooo often). If you joined a 4v5 you'd get no glory if you didn't get the 450 points which is probably more likely if it is 4v5. Even if they did you don't get much for a loss and it would take time for them to get into the rhythm of the match, I just don't see the purpose. I'm not 100% totally against it though. Also for the 4 man buff, it'd be nice apart from kicking a **** to get the buff if he/she's getting decimated which is more the queues fault than theirs.
Purpose is to have fun, if is no fun people will stop que... i am rly close to give up once again pvping. It is extremely frustrating to have no tool to solve this kind of behavior.
In other games one of the two solution is up, replacement works good in small grps, while the second with a buff in bigger grps like 20v20.
the problem with gear score matching is that you can currently swap gear after you enter a match so i could enter wearing low level gear and swap it once i'm waiting at the spawn camp. this would definitely put me at an advantage over other players.
now that could be corrected if they removed the ability to swap gear in a match, but that would have to be implemented. and i'm sure they considered these options when they opted to go with elo ranking instead.
Even if.
People would just leave the spawn, jump down, get killed purposely, repeat.
But go ahead demanding more penalties, I see they helped a lot so far alongside the broken ELO matchmaking. I guess you must be on the right track then. :rolleyes:
Also let me add that I personally don't believe the majority of the PVP community deserves the respect they call for. Play it out? 1v1? Sure, but not in this game. This is another story in premades, but PUGs consists of classless jerks mostly that I don't owe anything. Sure I have become part of the problem, but it's up to the devs to adjust the mechanics and solve it.
It's not only glory, you generally get little back when trying to be respectful.
There is a huge amount wrong with pvp at the moment, but like everything in the gaming world...it is what it is. If the devs can't figure out solutions to these basic problems, I doubt anything I say will make any difference. They are the professionals, afterall.
but i'm sure that PWE is monitoring the feedback, the numbers and if a change is warranted, we'll see it over time.
AFKing is the result of unbalanced PVP matches. No point giving someone cough syrup for their symptoms (AFK) and not giving them an antibiotic to treat the viral infection (Unbalanced PVP).
Still amazed that people refuse to acknowledge the lopsided nature of many PVP matches.
Here is the way I see it...
In almost every MMO with PvP in it...
The Devs keep trying to "Balance" the classes. And what usually happens is that they don't get it right, they just p*ss off the PvE community in the process.
And there is nothing that can, realistically, be done to prevent that. (Unless you go with an all <only> PvP or PvE MMO.)
You just have to put up with it or move on to a different MMO and hope things are different there.
Narayan
Narayan
These have been proven time and time again to work very poorly on the internet, where the shroud of anonymity puts any real fear of punishment far from people's minds.
As it currently stands, there is very, very little benefit to continue participating in a kerbstomp match, and little benefit to continue participating in a looong, more evenly-teamed match. The former will simply get you killed repeatedly for zero glory, and the latter will probably get you SOME glory, but at the cost of all your time. There isn't enough reward for staying with a crushing defeat, and there isn't enough reward for victory to make it worth fighting beyond a certain time-frame.
I mean, obviously everyone should be doing PvP because they want to, and the fighting and point-capping should be the reward in itself with the glory just being a bonus, but HAHAHAHHAHA no. This is the internet, and glory gets you stuff, so working out how to maximize glory returns is very much the order of business, I guess.
So I'd say "more rewards for longer matches, and more rewards for sticking with crappy one-sided matches" would be a better plan that coming up with increasingly elaborate and silly methods of punishing players who don't want to waste their time.
Things like reducing the disparity between victory and defeat: say...winners get +100 points, but actual glory awarded is based on score, so for a match that went 1000-999, both teams'd get a lot, with the winners getting an extra 100 just as a pat on the back. If we want to appeal to people's natural dickishness (since this is PvP after all), we could also make this come from a communal pool, say of 2000 points, so a 1000-999 result means 1000 points to each, whereas a 1000-100 result is more like 1800 to 200. This would motivate people to stick with a match that has gone 700-300, coz you probably won't WIN, but you might get up to 500 or so, and not only will that increase your reward, it would decrease the opponent's share of the reward.
Finally, to offset the time issue, have this pool build up over time, so a match that's over in five minutes only has a pool of 2000, whereas one that lasts 15 mins has 4000, and so on.
Yeah, you'd probably get people cap trading and extending matches forever to maximize glory rewards, but the beauty of this system is that it'd maximally reward these people only after effectively removing them from the circulating player-pool for the entire duration of their match.
Ultimately we want a system that allows those who genuinely play for the experience to continue to do so, those who play for the experience (but also the glory) to feel that continued participation is worthwhile, and those who are just there for the glory to feel motivated to actually play rather than sit it out.
I might be a bit too pessimistic at times, but I credit myself of successfully foreseeing spawn camping. Leaving matches was also a development and, on its height, surely it was worse than what we see now.
The problem is, methods of how to deal with the new system as someone purely after glory just haven't spread. Truth be told, the only nerf they did was lowering the glory rewards all around. People who know how can still get their 3-4 wins in per event hour. On one char.
One last thing: In my eyes the current sloppy ELO contributes to the camping problem. People not only know that losing isn't rewarding, they also will have experienced by now that they'll eventually get an easy win handed to them by the matchmaking.
1. total blow out my side 1000 - 70ish
2. My group consisted of 2 GF 2 Cleric 1 rogue. 1 cleric was a campfire girl, never left spawn. The other gf gave up about 4 minutes in.
3. Even looking sides. We lost the first engagement at center. disconnect of one of the team members(maybe legit, maybe not, who knows) Total blowout.
4. Us vs premade....everyone quit 5 minutes in, I simply died about 15 times, as i am stubborn. No offers of 1v1 just mass killed me. (premades are rare in my bracket to be fair)
5. My side lost 129-1000, 4vs5 as we had a campfire girl that quit later.
This is a fairly common occurance for me. I do not know if it is because of the bracket I am in or if it is normal. Evey 5 games I play though, There is at least 1 camper if not 2, and there are many more blowouts than close games.
this is pvp, and I am thinking that unless I get really good (hehe, yea right) and join a good guild, that this is how pvp will always be. If you just join the queue as random, this is representitive of what you will see.
This thread feels strangely dramatic.
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Maybe, maybe not. If at this point already half of the encounters go to waste, one and a half month after an update that was supposed to fix all the issues you mentioned was introduced, it's alarming.
Almost half......
so half a dozen equals 6 from which u had almost half interesting , that means 2. Yeah.. must be the drama
Again pls put kick in place with replacement for domination. This thing was always up in Swtor and worked rly good without abuses.