people afk in pvp because there is no penalty yet. players asked for a leaver penalty because people were not committed to playing in a pvp match when they saw they were losing so they'd just quit by leaving the match. these same people can't leave without being penalized, so they're going AFK.
what will end up happening is there will likely be an AFK penalty or you will get zero glory if you are marked afk during a match. the reasoning behind implementing the leaver penalty was if you are going to queue for a pvp match, you should be committed to finishing the match. pvp is competitive and there will be a winner and a loser. if you are winning, you expect the losing team to finish the game to the end and it's only fair that you provide the same courtesy if you're losing.
When the score is 500-50, the outcome of the match has already been decided. Time just hasn't expired yet.
I don't have an obligation to provide you with a free kill.
Perhaps the winners of lopsided matches should exhibit some grace in victory and not perpetually demand to kill their victims over and over again when it is pointless to do so.
I've recovered from worse odds than that and I'm not even in the almighty 1% of the top PvP people. The problem is your ego, not the score.
Thank you for providing evidence to my earlier post. This community is rotten, diseased and selfish. IF you can't handle the fact you're in a team and outcomes don't depend entirely on your work, go play CoD or some other ego-trip. That is not the way you behave in a MMO.
Your "excuse" of lopsided matches is first and foremost your own responsibility. Play often and get a ranking. Then you'll only encounter "lopsided" matches if there's nobody else to play with. Learn your ego that losing is good for the soul.
So let me understand what you expect me to do if I'm in a lopsided match. I am supposed to do what... continue to get killed over and over, knowing that I'm going to lose anyway and that no amount of killing or point capping on my part will change the eventual outcome of the match? And this is supposed to be fun for me? And what obligation would you place on the winning team? It's perfectly acceptable for them to continue to act like roflstomping ganking jerks? Why am I with the one with the obligation to continue to sacrifice myself "for the good of the team" (when there is no good to be had in any event), but the winners have no obligation to be gracious in victory and simply accept the surrender of a less qualified team?
And spare me your condescending lecture on "proper conduct".
pvp is competitive and there will be a winner and a loser. if you are winning, you expect the losing team to finish the game to the end and it's only fair that you provide the same courtesy if you're losing.
No I do not expect the losing team to be HUMILIATED by dieing left and right in front of their spawn point because the other team is a pre-made and vastly outgear their pug opponent. What you suggest is known in most mmos as griefing another player or group pf players for your own enjoyment.
There should be a mercy rule where if the other team is up by 600 or so points it ends end of story.
Many people do NOT afk at the campfire UNTIL they notice it is going to be a lose anymore. In almost every case when asked they staste it is not worth the effort when we get so little. (meaning working your butt off for no rewards) and lets face it this is a GAME and all games have rewards for doing well.
If you can ask the loosing team to keep getting killed when the match is loss, then you can ask the winning team to stop killing when the match is won. Ego goes both ways, if you can check your ego at the gate, good on you.
It is not fun when matches are one sided and it definitely isn't when you aren't even rewarded for it. Sometimes the balance is just horrible and it's time to move on. I'm not usually one to afk in games but sometimes in pvp it's just pointless and frustrating to continue. It's better than when you got people leaving practically every game anyway. Not that the leaver penalty couldn't have been implemented better since I could bypass the queue penalty if I really wanted to. Haven't felt the need to though.
If they want to make the situation a little better they need to give us rewards for actually trying, we're actually rewarded to give up earlier to max glory over time, that's the biggest cause of this. 2nd you could add a surrender option, though it'll be annoying for other teams to surrender early which I'm usually not a fan of, most matches I prefer to end the way it's meant to unless it's really painful. Also you can actually have the queue take composition and gear score into consideration so that there isn't avoidable massive unbalance.
How do you expect to get better at PvP if you give up at the slightest challenge? And don't even try to tell me that people only give up when the odds are insurmountable.
And how would you measure "trying" on an absolute scale? In a lopsided match there's only 1 way to do that, and that's by counting the no of skills you perform. And that's by no means relevant to the outcome of the match or an accurate description of "trying". not to mention easy to bot through.
They could remove the time cap for one thing and give extra glory to ones who are still scoring, though that isn't relevant to the one sided matches. Seems harder to have run if you use the queue system and are not a premade anyway. If you use the queue you have to put up with imbalances that can usually be avoided. If you're a premade then you probably don't need to worry as much about afkers and will more likely fight on the one sided team as long as the team has decent gear. That also goes for dungeons unless you get pugs in zone chat which seems to get slightly better results than relying on the queue.
How do you expect to get better at PvP if you give up at the slightest challenge? And don't even try to tell me that people only give up when the odds are insurmountable.
No, people don't *only* give up when the odds are insurmountable, but I'd say that represents about 90% of the AFKing.
It's not "giving up at the slightest challenge", it's "giving up when there is no hope of victory".
When it is no longer realistically possible for my team to win the match, then I'll AFK.
Now some of you will interpret that to mean "I'll just give up after the first battle if it doesn't go my way". That isn't true. I only AFK when the score is horribly lopsided.
You aren't entitled to farm me for kills.
There is absolutely no expectation in this Domination mode of PVP that every player be expected to fight 100% of the time so I refuse to allow you to place that expectation upon me.
There is absolutely no expectation in this Domination mode of PVP that every player be expected to fight 100% of the time so I refuse to allow you to place that expectation upon me.
There's no expectation. It's just common decency, if you ask me. There are 9 other people in that match, after all. I assume most of them didn't queue just to pass the time.
There's no expectation. It's just common decency, if you ask me. There are 9 other people in that match, after all. I assume most of them didn't queue just to pass the time.
No, we queued in order to try to win the match. When winning is no longer an option, it is just "common decency" to continue to fight and lose? What is decent in just feeding you kills?
At the risk of this getting removed:
I don't give a goblin's poo poo deck what you refuse. You Sir, are an arrogant little imp that thinks he's a baalor. Please go play offline CoD or whatever if you're not willing to play with other people. We'll manage without you somehow.
You are prime example #1 of why PVP ought to be removed from this game. You don't give a rat's patootie about fair play or gracious victory. All you want to do is kick people when they are down, and then demand that they get back up again so you can kick them some more. Go take your pathological issues elsewhere.
You think PVP is nothing more than fighting people.
That is not how NW Domination PVP is structured. The POINT of NW Domination PVP is to win a match by capping nodes.
It is entirely reasonable and possible to win a NW Domination PVP match without any fighting at all. Just ride around and trade caps. Don't like it? Complain to the devs, not me.
THEREFORE, when it's no longer reasonably possible to win the match according to the victory conditions established by the Domination format, there is NO POINT to continue fighting. Unless you just want to fight for the sake of fighting. Well, I don't. That isn't why I joined the PVP match. I joined in order to win the match, and fighting is just one of many means to accomplish that task.
By all means, if you want to continue fighting with people when there is no hope of victory, I'm not going to stop you. Go ahead. IMO it's pointless. But hey, whatevs.
But I'm not going to participate, again, when there is no hope of winning. And I resent your attempt to force me to fight when there is utterly no point to do so.
Unlike you though, I see no shame in losing a match. Or trying to turn a lost match around. You, unlike me, try to hide behind every excuse possible to stop participating. If you were a true PvPer, you'd welcome the challenge. But alas.
No I'm not a "true PVPer". I never claimed to be.
And we aren't talking about cases when there is a chance of turning a match around. That is a red herring.
And we aren't talking about "shame in losing a match". This is another red herring. If I fight and lose, or if I AFK and lose, I lose either way and the "shame" is exactly the same.
I'm talking about when the match is hopelessly lost and you all want to force me to continue to fight anyway. (And by "hopelessly lost" I don't mean "merely losing the first battle", but instead "up against a PVP guild premade and we can't even cap 1 node"). Quite frankly, that's wrong. It's not "disrespectful" to refuse to fight when there is no purpose in doing so, as established by the Domination victory conditions. It's not my duty or responsibility to entertain you by flinging myself down from the campsite to be insta-killed.
You think PVP is nothing more than fighting people.
That is not how NW Domination PVP is structured. The POINT of NW Domination PVP is to win a match by capping nodes.
It is entirely reasonable and possible to win a NW Domination PVP match without any fighting at all. Just ride around and trade caps. Don't like it? Complain to the devs, not me.
THEREFORE, when it's no longer reasonably possible to win the match according to the victory conditions established by the Domination format, there is NO POINT to continue fighting. Unless you just want to fight for the sake of fighting. Well, I don't. That isn't why I joined the PVP match. I joined in order to win the match, and fighting is just one of many means to accomplish that task.
By all means, if you want to continue fighting with people when there is no hope of victory, I'm not going to stop you. Go ahead. IMO it's pointless. But hey, whatevs.
But I'm not going to participate, again, when there is no hope of winning. And I resent your attempt to force me to fight when there is utterly no point to do so.
if you notice no one is specifically saying go fight someone. What we are saying is that you should not afk when you think the odds are insurmountable. you don't have to attack anyone if you dont want but that doesn't mean you have to stop trying to cap a node.
Your posts are still coming off as childish. all that it sounds like is "I can't win, so I am taking my ball and going home"
Still doesn't change the fact you're looking for every excuse in the book not to participate: GS, 1 stupid decision from a team member, being behind in score.. It's all food for your ego. It's always somebody's fault, but never yours.
That is just you putting words in my mouth. I didn't even bring up GS, by the way.
By all means do it. But 1: thing will never improve for you. And 2: You do that on my team and you're reported for grieving. You wouldn't be the first with a day ban. Or the last, I'm sure.
Oooo I'm scared now. Who exactly would I be "grieving" [sic]? You? For not fighting when there is no hope of victory? I'm not stopping you from fighting and I'm not denying you a victory because there isn't any victory to be had.
i simply don't get y people care if someone afk's. 99% of all afk's is done because there truly is no hope of winning no matter how hard u try. i think i have seen maybe 5 people total afk right from the start after hundreds of matches and it's truly a non-issue
whether it's possible to win or not should be foreseen after the 5 min mark, but there are rare exceptions of overcoming a 300 point disadvantage and even rarer with larger point gaps. normally, though, any lead past 200 points almost always end up as a victory.
i don't mind continuing even when knowing i am gonna lose sometimes, as long as the fights r balanced. if not, then there truly is no point. if the fights r balanced, then the reason for losing is usually because of a perma and nobody being able to actually stalement them on the team.
the leaver penalty pretty much fixed most of the issue in your team not even trying for a full 5 min and that's all we needed. after 5 mins, it's pretty much decided.
it's pretty much this:
pros
faster matches
can move on to a more balanced and fun match
both sides have more chances to have balanced matches
more glory
cons
winners can't fully enjoy current match
some losers get frustrated that 1-2 people gave up half-way into the match
Just the remaining players in that match. I'll accept any real life excuse that comes up, but "we can't win this" is totally BS. I've come back from 500-150 and still won. No premade, just in a pug.
Fine, you've had one amazing come-from-behind victory. Now how many times have you been down 500-150 and lost? I'm willing to bet a LOT more times than you've won. And how about 700-0? Ever come back and win from being behind that far? No, I didn't think so.
Once again, AFKing is not "griefing" when there isn't a negative outcome *that wouldn't have occurred anyway*.
And quite frankly I don't think the matchmaking system is even working.
Comments
When the score is 500-50, the outcome of the match has already been decided. Time just hasn't expired yet.
I don't have an obligation to provide you with a free kill.
Perhaps the winners of lopsided matches should exhibit some grace in victory and not perpetually demand to kill their victims over and over again when it is pointless to do so.
So let me understand what you expect me to do if I'm in a lopsided match. I am supposed to do what... continue to get killed over and over, knowing that I'm going to lose anyway and that no amount of killing or point capping on my part will change the eventual outcome of the match? And this is supposed to be fun for me? And what obligation would you place on the winning team? It's perfectly acceptable for them to continue to act like roflstomping ganking jerks? Why am I with the one with the obligation to continue to sacrifice myself "for the good of the team" (when there is no good to be had in any event), but the winners have no obligation to be gracious in victory and simply accept the surrender of a less qualified team?
And spare me your condescending lecture on "proper conduct".
I queued for PVP in order to attempt to win a PVP match. If victory is no longer realistically possible then there is no more point in PVPing.
No I do not expect the losing team to be HUMILIATED by dieing left and right in front of their spawn point because the other team is a pre-made and vastly outgear their pug opponent. What you suggest is known in most mmos as griefing another player or group pf players for your own enjoyment.
There should be a mercy rule where if the other team is up by 600 or so points it ends end of story.
Many people do NOT afk at the campfire UNTIL they notice it is going to be a lose anymore. In almost every case when asked they staste it is not worth the effort when we get so little. (meaning working your butt off for no rewards) and lets face it this is a GAME and all games have rewards for doing well.
1) dailies
2) have fun
It is not fun when matches are one sided and it definitely isn't when you aren't even rewarded for it. Sometimes the balance is just horrible and it's time to move on. I'm not usually one to afk in games but sometimes in pvp it's just pointless and frustrating to continue. It's better than when you got people leaving practically every game anyway. Not that the leaver penalty couldn't have been implemented better since I could bypass the queue penalty if I really wanted to. Haven't felt the need to though.
If they want to make the situation a little better they need to give us rewards for actually trying, we're actually rewarded to give up earlier to max glory over time, that's the biggest cause of this. 2nd you could add a surrender option, though it'll be annoying for other teams to surrender early which I'm usually not a fan of, most matches I prefer to end the way it's meant to unless it's really painful. Also you can actually have the queue take composition and gear score into consideration so that there isn't avoidable massive unbalance.
They could remove the time cap for one thing and give extra glory to ones who are still scoring, though that isn't relevant to the one sided matches. Seems harder to have run if you use the queue system and are not a premade anyway. If you use the queue you have to put up with imbalances that can usually be avoided. If you're a premade then you probably don't need to worry as much about afkers and will more likely fight on the one sided team as long as the team has decent gear. That also goes for dungeons unless you get pugs in zone chat which seems to get slightly better results than relying on the queue.
No, people don't *only* give up when the odds are insurmountable, but I'd say that represents about 90% of the AFKing.
It's not "giving up at the slightest challenge", it's "giving up when there is no hope of victory".
I'll try to win the match.
When it is no longer realistically possible for my team to win the match, then I'll AFK.
Now some of you will interpret that to mean "I'll just give up after the first battle if it doesn't go my way". That isn't true. I only AFK when the score is horribly lopsided.
You aren't entitled to farm me for kills.
There is absolutely no expectation in this Domination mode of PVP that every player be expected to fight 100% of the time so I refuse to allow you to place that expectation upon me.
There's no expectation. It's just common decency, if you ask me. There are 9 other people in that match, after all. I assume most of them didn't queue just to pass the time.
No, we queued in order to try to win the match. When winning is no longer an option, it is just "common decency" to continue to fight and lose? What is decent in just feeding you kills?
You are prime example #1 of why PVP ought to be removed from this game. You don't give a rat's patootie about fair play or gracious victory. All you want to do is kick people when they are down, and then demand that they get back up again so you can kick them some more. Go take your pathological issues elsewhere.
You think PVP is nothing more than fighting people.
That is not how NW Domination PVP is structured. The POINT of NW Domination PVP is to win a match by capping nodes.
It is entirely reasonable and possible to win a NW Domination PVP match without any fighting at all. Just ride around and trade caps. Don't like it? Complain to the devs, not me.
THEREFORE, when it's no longer reasonably possible to win the match according to the victory conditions established by the Domination format, there is NO POINT to continue fighting. Unless you just want to fight for the sake of fighting. Well, I don't. That isn't why I joined the PVP match. I joined in order to win the match, and fighting is just one of many means to accomplish that task.
By all means, if you want to continue fighting with people when there is no hope of victory, I'm not going to stop you. Go ahead. IMO it's pointless. But hey, whatevs.
But I'm not going to participate, again, when there is no hope of winning. And I resent your attempt to force me to fight when there is utterly no point to do so.
No I'm not a "true PVPer". I never claimed to be.
And we aren't talking about cases when there is a chance of turning a match around. That is a red herring.
And we aren't talking about "shame in losing a match". This is another red herring. If I fight and lose, or if I AFK and lose, I lose either way and the "shame" is exactly the same.
I'm talking about when the match is hopelessly lost and you all want to force me to continue to fight anyway. (And by "hopelessly lost" I don't mean "merely losing the first battle", but instead "up against a PVP guild premade and we can't even cap 1 node"). Quite frankly, that's wrong. It's not "disrespectful" to refuse to fight when there is no purpose in doing so, as established by the Domination victory conditions. It's not my duty or responsibility to entertain you by flinging myself down from the campsite to be insta-killed.
if you notice no one is specifically saying go fight someone. What we are saying is that you should not afk when you think the odds are insurmountable. you don't have to attack anyone if you dont want but that doesn't mean you have to stop trying to cap a node.
Your posts are still coming off as childish. all that it sounds like is "I can't win, so I am taking my ball and going home"
So how can you be both in favor of a "surrender option" AND in favor of "fight[ing] till the bitter end"?
Just think of AFKing as a form of surrendering when the match is hopeless.
whether it's possible to win or not should be foreseen after the 5 min mark, but there are rare exceptions of overcoming a 300 point disadvantage and even rarer with larger point gaps. normally, though, any lead past 200 points almost always end up as a victory.
i don't mind continuing even when knowing i am gonna lose sometimes, as long as the fights r balanced. if not, then there truly is no point. if the fights r balanced, then the reason for losing is usually because of a perma and nobody being able to actually stalement them on the team.
the leaver penalty pretty much fixed most of the issue in your team not even trying for a full 5 min and that's all we needed. after 5 mins, it's pretty much decided.
it's pretty much this: