Just a quick question: So by losing BaS, are you sacrificing an actual "perma stealth" rotation, and relying on ItC to keep you up while SS has the 1-2 second cooldown on it? Or does enough recovery + PvP set at 60 give you a true perma stealth rotation even without BaS?
Honestly.
Whether he had inspiration from Enemy Team or not, Snow used that build.
It was Snow that posted it on the forums to help others, not Enemy Team.
ET members wouldn't be caught dead posting a build on here to help people.
Honestly.
Whether he had inspiration from Enemy Team or not, Snow used that build.
It was Snow that posted it on the forums to help others, not Enemy Team.
I totally agree.
Also
I know who snow is, I wasn't playing PvP during Beta, so I have no idea who ET or that other group is. Do they still play?
IMHO, who cares who the creator was. It's not a copyrighted item and as such, Snow has made the community of NW better by directly contributing to the game and success of other players by making this thread.
Massive fanboyness detected after checking out my thread after a few weeks...
< Look at the amount of ****s i give '0'
I will update this build and tweak it to my own liking, haven't really been playing since the tenacity patch since enchants matter even more now (ironic).
Nice to see the update, I knew there was something up when I was you in GG yesterday with a new char. Good stuff.
Couple things I would like to ask/suggest
If you have Scoundrel set, you could also purchase CN daggers for the crit buff and higher dmg over thayan daggers.
Have you tried Fey Thistle? I switched over some time ago and it makes a difference in 1x1 against other top spec rogues.
With PotB rotation it is interesting to cast PotB out of stealth so it lasts longer and use ItC before running out of stealth for immortality.
I've posted on the forums some time ago how I was running a slightly different copy of your build (PotB insteand of IS and couple diff items) but getting eaten by P.Bile so I upgraded my Greater to Perfect, switched from thayan to spymaster daggers, tested the tweaks and rotation above in P.Bile vs P.Bile scenarios and got really good results, if both rogues with same spec and gear face each other, the one with fey thistle will deal more dmg and takes less dmg from popping ItC from stealth.
Just some thoughts, good job there Snow.
Edit: 125 crit over 125 power boon if you have low crit due to scoundrel set (grim)
screen shot of the powers you took while leveling would be really nice..
new to rogues and am thinking of creating one and trying this build, so i really dont want to mess up and respec someday
Nice to see the update, I knew there was something up when I was you in GG yesterday with a new char. Good stuff.
Couple things I would like to ask/suggest
If you have Scoundrel set, you could also purchase CN daggers for the crit buff and higher dmg over thayan daggers.
Have you tried Fey Thistle? I switched over some time ago and it makes a difference in 1x1 against other top spec rogues.
With PotB rotation it is interesting to cast PotB out of stealth so it lasts longer and use ItC before running out of stealth for immortality.
I've posted on the forums some time ago how I was running a slightly different copy of your build (PotB insteand of IS and couple diff items) but getting eaten by P.Bile so I upgraded my Greater to Perfect, switched from thayan to spymaster daggers, tested the tweaks and rotation above in P.Bile vs P.Bile scenarios and got really good results, if both rogues with same spec and gear face each other, the one with fey thistle will deal more dmg and takes less dmg from popping ItC from stealth.
Just some thoughts, good job there Snow.
Edit: 125 crit over 125 power boon if you have low crit due to scoundrel set (grim)
This build doesn't bother with crit, the base crit chance of a TR is pretty high, and since power is getting a rework focusing on power is worth it.
Also im going to be running a different build, and i will be using fey thistle with it, its a real good boon, especially with about 20% deflect chance just from scoundrel/halfling and ITC.
screen shot of the powers you took while leveling would be really nice..
new to rogues and am thinking of creating one and trying this build, so i really dont want to mess up and respec someday
Just a quick question: So by losing BaS, are you sacrificing an actual "perma stealth" rotation, and relying on ItC to keep you up while SS has the 1-2 second cooldown on it? Or does enough recovery + PvP set at 60 give you a true perma stealth rotation even without BaS?
Appreciate the great work.
Shadow strike + ITC = perma stealth with high enough recharge speed & dodges.
I think he was asking if without depending on ITC, you could maintain a 99% uptime of stealth just from Shadow Strike and high recovery, which I highly doubt you could. Even true BnS+SS permastealth has a small window out of stealth of 1-3 seconds, once every 30 seconds or longer.
So after mod 3 comes out your switching to another build you have been working on..
Using Feytouch as the enchantment if i understand correctly, on this new build you have been working on, are your rolls for making a
rogue for this setup still viable? or did you reroll and redo everything from the ground up?
I am asking because i would hate to roll a character with stats that you suggest with this setup, lvl it to 60 and after mod 3 comes out and if you do infact release the other build than, that my rolls wont work or are not the best to have rolled for a different setup...
As i explained, I am very new to the rogue community, so i really don't know much about rogues, have played them in every other MMO
since everquest first came out, This is the first game i did not play a rogue full time, Hate to invest a bunch of time an AD gearing up and than trashing and re-rolling...
I only pvp, and i plan on rolling a halfling because i have always like the shorter races for some reason in MMOs, currently i play a
Halfling GWF and i really like playing that character, but i have been wanting something different at times to play and the other classes
really have not suited me well, However i did roll a Halfling GF that i still mess around with leveling, Just to take a break at times from pvp.
I just prefer if possible since i am new to the class, to play what some called cookie-cutter builds, and than learn what i might change to my flavor perhaps later in time after experimenting myself, as i have done with my gwf, gear and powers i tend to change around alot to try and get the best out of my gwf as well, mostly gear...
When you roll a character you are stuck with base stats, even when you respec, you are still stuck with them base stats, so if things change around alot in mod 3 and you have went with a totally different type of roll and added points from there, than if that new roll works and has proven itself, than i rather do that ...
More than welcome to PM me if you wish as well, for some insight or maybe i should wait till mod 3 to roll or whatever advice you can give me, even through PMs...
Thanks for your time and sharing your knowledge...
P.S. Im the 50 year old hardcore pvper that loves to own the young guys hehe
I think he was asking if without depending on ITC, you could maintain a 99% uptime of stealth just from Shadow Strike and high recovery, which I highly doubt you could. Even true BnS+SS permastealth has a small window out of stealth of 1-3 seconds, once every 30 seconds or longer.
Yea, impossible to be perma stealth with only SS, since you'll have to stay stealthed for what, 12 secs ish?
So after mod 3 comes out your switching to another build you have been working on..
Using Feytouch as the enchantment if i understand correctly, on this new build you have been working on, are your rolls for making a
rogue for this setup still viable? or did you reroll and redo everything from the ground up?
I am asking because i would hate to roll a character with stats that you suggest with this setup, lvl it to 60 and after mod 3 comes out and if you do infact release the other build than, that my rolls wont work or are not the best to have rolled for a different setup...
As i explained, I am very new to the rogue community, so i really don't know much about rogues, have played them in every other MMO
since everquest first came out, This is the first game i did not play a rogue full time, Hate to invest a bunch of time an AD gearing up and than trashing and re-rolling...
I only pvp, and i plan on rolling a halfling because i have always like the shorter races for some reason in MMOs, currently i play a
Halfling GWF and i really like playing that character, but i have been wanting something different at times to play and the other classes
really have not suited me well, However i did roll a Halfling GF that i still mess around with leveling, Just to take a break at times from pvp.
I just prefer if possible since i am new to the class, to play what some called cookie-cutter builds, and than learn what i might change to my flavor perhaps later in time after experimenting myself, as i have done with my gwf, gear and powers i tend to change around alot to try and get the best out of my gwf as well, mostly gear...
When you roll a character you are stuck with base stats, even when you respec, you are still stuck with them base stats, so if things change around alot in mod 3 and you have went with a totally different type of roll and added points from there, than if that new roll works and has proven itself, than i rather do that ...
More than welcome to PM me if you wish as well, for some insight or maybe i should wait till mod 3 to roll or whatever advice you can give me, even through PMs...
Thanks for your time and sharing your knowledge...
P.S. Im the 50 year old hardcore pvper that loves to own the young guys hehe
Nope, i'm using the exact same rolls, race and gear, just different paragon feats, still using bile.
This is a great guide, thank you for helping all of us.
I hope it is not too much to ask if you would be open to viewing my character Absolum@jabsolum.
Specifically I would like to know what you would change in my set up to maximise my build other than upgrading enchants (which I will do slowly over time). I do not have the time to invest in rolling your exact set up (this is my first character and I invested everything into it's artifacts/gear) however my starting stats were pretty good. I managed to speck to 18 INT and 17 CON. I know it is not perfect however a new character is not an option.
If you do not have the time I understand and in this case it would be really helpful to know exactly what % recharge speed exactly that you are happy with (including campfire buff)? I currentally have 25%.
This is a great guide, thank you for helping all of us.
I hope it is not too much to ask if you would be open to viewing my character Absolum@jabsolum.
Specifically I would like to know what you would change in my set up to maximise my build other than upgrading enchants (which I will do slowly over time). I do not have the time to invest in rolling your exact set up (this is my first character and I invested everything into it's artifacts/gear) however my starting stats were pretty good. I managed to speck to 18 INT and 17 CON. I know it is not perfect however a new character is not an option.
If you do not have the time I understand and in this case it would be really helpful to know exactly what % recharge speed exactly that you are happy with (including campfire buff)? I currentally have 25%.
Thank you in advance.
Yea change your neck and belt and you should be fine, forgot the names but i put them in my guide lol.
Also you would be better of just rerolling i did the same thing, difference is huge
this is only viable pvp build out there.no idea why you said its high end i use it with only 3 silvery enchants and beat any tr with another build.guess u dont want everybody using it...well to late for that lol
I have a question about ur weaponentchant,what makes Bilethorn so good or why do u pick it?
1) It is the highest damage weapon damage based enchantment (over the spread of 4 seconds though).
2) Weapon damage enchantment hits count as separate hits compared to the damage your actual ability hits. This means for every hit you actually hit twice when using a weapon damage based enchant. This causes faster dismounts when compared to something like vorpal. Also, the 4 second delay between initial and final procs of the enchant make it take a significant amount of time to remount after being dismounted by the enchantment.
3) As far as comparing it to vorpal though, the enchantment, does adds relatively the same amount of damage as a vorpal when using moves like duelist fury or cloud of steel which are the two main damage moves for a stealth build. (Except if you have a critical bleed ticking away on your target.) When using this kind of build, your only other damage will come from a third encounter or you will be using bait and switch in your third. For a third damaging encounter, at the moment Path of the Blade is considered to be the only really viable option. This move doesn't proc weapon enchants though, so there is no disadvantage to using bilethorn compared to vorpal. If one was to use something like lashing blade, then vorpal could be better, but the next benefits below are the reason why it wouldn't be worth it. Also, in addition to being great for damage, Path of the Blade furthers the effect below and makes for an even more viable counter to other rogues.
*** The main reason why anyone uses it though is because the only significant counter to a stealth rogue 1v1 is another stealth rogue, and bilethorn drains enemy stealth extremely fast. This is because of the 4 second delay before the main hits of the enchantment. Any hits you do before they go into stealth will hit them after they go back into stealth and will knock them out of it quickly. (Unless they can somehow wait out you not hitting them for 4 seconds, which is impractical).
The earlier numbered reasons are just other benefits for using the enchant, but the real reason is so that you don't have any counters 1v1. If you face a bilethorn rogue 1v1 without bilethorn, you are definitely going to lose if you are anywhere around the same skill/gear level because you will be out of stealth much longer than your opponent.
Running scoundrel now, and will continue using it in m3.
I keep hearing people say SE is getting nerfed next mod, but I personally haven't noticed any preview patch notes/posts about it. Have you heard anything about this?
I keep hearing people say SE is getting nerfed next mod, but I personally haven't noticed any preview patch notes/posts about it. Have you heard anything about this?
SE is nerfed, i will be using whirlwind of blades in m3.
The devs tend to not note everything in patch notes. ;p
lol this thread. This is what happens when a really good build somehow leaks from the hermetically sealed vaults of the better pvp guilds. And they are usually only leaked when the leaking guild has come up with something better. Thanks Snow.
lol this thread. This is what happens when a really good build somehow leaks from the hermetically sealed vaults of the better pvp guilds. And they are usually only leaked when the leaking guild has come up with something better. Thanks Snow.
Comments
Just a quick question: So by losing BaS, are you sacrificing an actual "perma stealth" rotation, and relying on ItC to keep you up while SS has the 1-2 second cooldown on it? Or does enough recovery + PvP set at 60 give you a true perma stealth rotation even without BaS?
Appreciate the great work.
Whether he had inspiration from Enemy Team or not, Snow used that build.
It was Snow that posted it on the forums to help others, not Enemy Team.
ET members wouldn't be caught dead posting a build on here to help people.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
I totally agree.
Also
I know who snow is, I wasn't playing PvP during Beta, so I have no idea who ET or that other group is. Do they still play?
IMHO, who cares who the creator was. It's not a copyrighted item and as such, Snow has made the community of NW better by directly contributing to the game and success of other players by making this thread.
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
< Look at the amount of ****s i give '0'
I will update this build and tweak it to my own liking, haven't really been playing since the tenacity patch since enchants matter even more now (ironic).
Nice to see the update, I knew there was something up when I was you in GG yesterday with a new char. Good stuff.
Couple things I would like to ask/suggest
If you have Scoundrel set, you could also purchase CN daggers for the crit buff and higher dmg over thayan daggers.
Have you tried Fey Thistle? I switched over some time ago and it makes a difference in 1x1 against other top spec rogues.
With PotB rotation it is interesting to cast PotB out of stealth so it lasts longer and use ItC before running out of stealth for immortality.
I've posted on the forums some time ago how I was running a slightly different copy of your build (PotB insteand of IS and couple diff items) but getting eaten by P.Bile so I upgraded my Greater to Perfect, switched from thayan to spymaster daggers, tested the tweaks and rotation above in P.Bile vs P.Bile scenarios and got really good results, if both rogues with same spec and gear face each other, the one with fey thistle will deal more dmg and takes less dmg from popping ItC from stealth.
Just some thoughts, good job there Snow.
Edit: 125 crit over 125 power boon if you have low crit due to scoundrel set (grim)
new to rogues and am thinking of creating one and trying this build, so i really dont want to mess up and respec someday
This build doesn't bother with crit, the base crit chance of a TR is pretty high, and since power is getting a rework focusing on power is worth it.
Also im going to be running a different build, and i will be using fey thistle with it, its a real good boon, especially with about 20% deflect chance just from scoundrel/halfling and ITC.
http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=nhz:27fprk:163zd0,13j3505:1uu000:100000:1u55u1&h=0&p=min
I didn't bother with it cause power points will mean nothing anymore with the M3 update since you can unlock all powers :P
Remember when we talked about this during the beta of the first alpha, way back before launch?
I really feel you should pay me some proper respect
Nice guide, btw
Shadow strike + ITC = perma stealth with high enough recharge speed & dodges.
Using Feytouch as the enchantment if i understand correctly, on this new build you have been working on, are your rolls for making a
rogue for this setup still viable? or did you reroll and redo everything from the ground up?
I am asking because i would hate to roll a character with stats that you suggest with this setup, lvl it to 60 and after mod 3 comes out and if you do infact release the other build than, that my rolls wont work or are not the best to have rolled for a different setup...
As i explained, I am very new to the rogue community, so i really don't know much about rogues, have played them in every other MMO
since everquest first came out, This is the first game i did not play a rogue full time, Hate to invest a bunch of time an AD gearing up and than trashing and re-rolling...
I only pvp, and i plan on rolling a halfling because i have always like the shorter races for some reason in MMOs, currently i play a
Halfling GWF and i really like playing that character, but i have been wanting something different at times to play and the other classes
really have not suited me well, However i did roll a Halfling GF that i still mess around with leveling, Just to take a break at times from pvp.
I just prefer if possible since i am new to the class, to play what some called cookie-cutter builds, and than learn what i might change to my flavor perhaps later in time after experimenting myself, as i have done with my gwf, gear and powers i tend to change around alot to try and get the best out of my gwf as well, mostly gear...
When you roll a character you are stuck with base stats, even when you respec, you are still stuck with them base stats, so if things change around alot in mod 3 and you have went with a totally different type of roll and added points from there, than if that new roll works and has proven itself, than i rather do that
More than welcome to PM me if you wish as well, for some insight or maybe i should wait till mod 3 to roll or whatever advice you can give me, even through PMs...
Thanks for your time and sharing your knowledge...
P.S. Im the 50 year old hardcore pvper that loves to own the young guys
Yea, impossible to be perma stealth with only SS, since you'll have to stay stealthed for what, 12 secs ish?
Nope, i'm using the exact same rolls, race and gear, just different paragon feats, still using bile.
This is a great guide, thank you for helping all of us.
I hope it is not too much to ask if you would be open to viewing my character Absolum@jabsolum.
Specifically I would like to know what you would change in my set up to maximise my build other than upgrading enchants (which I will do slowly over time). I do not have the time to invest in rolling your exact set up (this is my first character and I invested everything into it's artifacts/gear) however my starting stats were pretty good. I managed to speck to 18 INT and 17 CON. I know it is not perfect however a new character is not an option.
If you do not have the time I understand and in this case it would be really helpful to know exactly what % recharge speed exactly that you are happy with (including campfire buff)? I currentally have 25%.
Thank you in advance.
Yea change your neck and belt and you should be fine, forgot the names but i put them in my guide lol.
Also you would be better of just rerolling i did the same thing, difference is huge
Also bark for armor correct?
Thanks
Thought it was pretty common knowledge which enchants one would use with such a build, but i'll add it in i guess.
Offensive slots: Silverys (recovery)
Defensive slots: Radiants (hitpoints)
Utility slots: Darks (movement)
Weapon enchantment: Bilethorn
Armor enchantment: Soulforged
Which build? He listed three of them.
1) It is the highest damage weapon damage based enchantment (over the spread of 4 seconds though).
2) Weapon damage enchantment hits count as separate hits compared to the damage your actual ability hits. This means for every hit you actually hit twice when using a weapon damage based enchant. This causes faster dismounts when compared to something like vorpal. Also, the 4 second delay between initial and final procs of the enchant make it take a significant amount of time to remount after being dismounted by the enchantment.
3) As far as comparing it to vorpal though, the enchantment, does adds relatively the same amount of damage as a vorpal when using moves like duelist fury or cloud of steel which are the two main damage moves for a stealth build. (Except if you have a critical bleed ticking away on your target.) When using this kind of build, your only other damage will come from a third encounter or you will be using bait and switch in your third. For a third damaging encounter, at the moment Path of the Blade is considered to be the only really viable option. This move doesn't proc weapon enchants though, so there is no disadvantage to using bilethorn compared to vorpal. If one was to use something like lashing blade, then vorpal could be better, but the next benefits below are the reason why it wouldn't be worth it. Also, in addition to being great for damage, Path of the Blade furthers the effect below and makes for an even more viable counter to other rogues.
*** The main reason why anyone uses it though is because the only significant counter to a stealth rogue 1v1 is another stealth rogue, and bilethorn drains enemy stealth extremely fast. This is because of the 4 second delay before the main hits of the enchantment. Any hits you do before they go into stealth will hit them after they go back into stealth and will knock them out of it quickly. (Unless they can somehow wait out you not hitting them for 4 seconds, which is impractical).
The earlier numbered reasons are just other benefits for using the enchant, but the real reason is so that you don't have any counters 1v1. If you face a bilethorn rogue 1v1 without bilethorn, you are definitely going to lose if you are anywhere around the same skill/gear level because you will be out of stealth much longer than your opponent.
Is this a question or..?
I keep hearing people say SE is getting nerfed next mod, but I personally haven't noticed any preview patch notes/posts about it. Have you heard anything about this?
SE is nerfed, i will be using whirlwind of blades in m3.
The devs tend to not note everything in patch notes. ;p
Wow, ok. Thanks.
Jugger Conq GF
....
Tenes are like, not having anything in your offense slot at all, they used to be good, they are not anymore.