No, nobody wants to play them because no matter what kind of skill you have, if you end up against a halfway-decent perma-rogue you're dead without even being able to hurt them.
Bottomline, no matter what they do, it comes down to having the ability to at least fight back. Even if you're supposed to be at a disadvantage, that's fine, but if you can't do anything at all no matter what your skill level, that's obviously broken and anyone reasonable would see that.
Problem with PvP and balance, is Cryptic actually listened to people like you....unfortunately therein lies the problem.
In your puggish mentality you cry the ocean of tears because a Control Wizard is having a difficult time beating a Perma Stealth TR (More than Likely just a TR with high Recovery btw), in a 1 vs 1 scenario.
Problem is this. Skill, class, gear, builds ALL have a tremendous amount to do with the outcome of a 1 vs 1 scenario. If you, are having a difficult time fighting a TR, then switch nodes? That's what we do in premades. We don't cry and call nerf on an ENTIRE class, because we cant seem to beat one specific TR, or GWF, or GF, or CW, or DC. We.......switch, OR.......we get back up. Its a 5 vs 5.....NOT you vs the world.
Pug Mentality ---> I cant beat /insert any class here, lets make a post on the forum or make a troll comment in /zone!
End Game PvP Mentality ---> Havin trouble at 1 with this TR, someone switch.
GWF almost dead on 3, need some dps
Incoming 2..need help, CW go 1
See where I'm going here?
People like you have ruined PvP for the rest of us that knew it was fine months ago, except some minor specific class abilities that needed "tweaking", and addition of a couple new PvP maps.
I know lot of people that does play cw in pvp, they are very strong as long as they are builded for pvp
I said playing CW at the highest levels of PVP. There are only quite a few because CW is handicapped in PVP and always loses 1v1 node duels against GWF and TR.
Just cast Steal Time, Icy Terrain and other AoEs and use lantern.
You'll be just fine. All you have to do is adapt and there you go, TRs will fall like flies around your CW.
That's not true.
1st of all, enough with the lantern thing. Relying on an artifact to fight on class is rediculous. 2ndly, it doesn't even work most of the time. A rogue will just go out of range until it expires then you have nothing for 3 minutes.
2nd, AOEs like you mentioned are bad for PVP in general. If a rogue makes you change your entire skillset just to fight him, he's already won.
I change my skillset all the time for specially pesky enemies, why do you think that 1 single skillset should be useful against all enemies?
of course some skills will work better for some enemies than others.
No thanks I'd rather not play a class that relies on basically cheating to win.
So, you much beter to claim for nerfing a class instead of actually learning how to play it and, therefore learning to play against it. Interesting.
1st of all, enough with the lantern thing. Relying on an artifact to fight on class is rediculous. 2ndly, it doesn't even work most of the time. A rogue will just go out of range until it expires then you have nothing for 3 minutes.
2nd, AOEs like you mentioned are bad for PVP in general. If a rogue makes you change your entire skillset just to fight him, he's already won.
^I know, right?
1)like you said, the lantern's pointless. Even if you get it to legendary, a 6 second, might see rogue if he/she's in range, small damage aoe with a 2 minute cooldown is NOT going to cut it.
2)The AoEs mentioned are not that useful in pvp either. Steal Time leaves you too vulnerable and takes too long. Icy Terrain is pointless because in mastery slot, you need to know where they are, and if not in slot, they can just range you. The only AoEs I put any factor into is Singularity and Oppressive Force, but those are dailies. A skilled rogue can basically see what youre doing(theyre both choreographed), and dodge out of/into the AoE, making it useless.
Not complaining about Perma Stealth, just debunking the so called "defenses" that I constantly see to face them.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Premades of any size (even 2) should not be mixed with pugs. Its not fun and games should be about fun foremost.
I have more fun with my mate than alone. We know how to mix and match our classes and get back at people. We don't unbalance the game because there's only two of us and we're not noobs with Vorpal.
Preach against Vorpal in <60 PvP. So many people have it and are idiots at their class, but win because they can hot 6k with a TR @ 39 in PvP.
I said playing CW at the highest levels of PVP. There are only quite a few because CW is handicapped in PVP and always loses 1v1 node duels against GWF and TR.
Against pugs, CW is really fun to play with.
I don't consider CWs handicapped in PVP. They just rely on their team more, like an HR(although not as much as an HR).
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
and None about GWF's having super high survivability with One rotation kills..
Noone pleading the case of the poor DC...
Not a whisper about HR's chain CC + One Rotation kills
Not a peep about jumping messing with dodge mechanics...
Sorry, youre missing the point. This is a Perma Stealth discussion. Please look for threads about gwf/dc/hr/cw/gf pvp complaints. Theres already quite a bit of them too.
None about GWF's having super high survivability with One rotation kills.."
So youre being pretty hypocritical by jumping people's case about talking/qq'ing about TR's Perma Stealth here.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
oh noes, I cant kill someone they must be cheating!
Cause that is the only reason why you died......
More like I can't even ATTACK someone.
Yeah, it's basically cheating if someone can kill you and you can't even attack them, let alone see them, most of the fight, and when you can see them they're invincible.
Yeah, it's basically cheating if someone can kill you and you can't even attack them, let alone see them, most of the fight, and when you can see them they're invincible.
Anybody reasonable would agree.
Wrong.
Using class features and powers that are working as (currently) intended cannot possibly be considered 'cheating' by any rational human being. TBH it just sounds childish and petulant.
Using class features and powers that are working as (currently) intended cannot possibly be considered 'cheating' by any rational human being. TBH it just sounds childish and petulant.
So you think it's reasonable to have a class you can't attack or see and when you can they're invincible.
Obviously, you like to have unfair advantages or maybe need them to play games, but I know I would feel like I was cheating if I was winning games because I played a perma-rogue.
So you think it's reasonable to have a class you can't attack or see and when you can they're invincible.
Obviously, you like to have unfair advantages or maybe need them to play games, but I know I would feel like I was cheating if I was winning games because I played a perma-rogue.
Clearly you don't know HOW to fight a TR.
If TR are as good as you imagine to be, aka INVINCIBLE. Everyone in PVP will be rolling a TR.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
1st of all, enough with the lantern thing. Relying on an artifact to fight on class is rediculous. 2ndly, it doesn't even work most of the time. A rogue will just go out of range until it expires then you have nothing for 3 minutes.
2nd, AOEs like you mentioned are bad for PVP in general. If a rogue makes you change your entire skillset just to fight him, he's already won.
This hurts my feelings as a CW
I thought another CW would actually understand my post, maybe read it again?
Let me reiterate:
- lantern is awesome! 100% guaranteed chance of revealing, damaging AND debuffing the TR! It's basically GG the moment you pop it - you can see the TRs running scared in all directions Pretty much press button to win!
- those AoEs are awesome in PvP! Only n0ob CWs don't use them on TRs. Just pop Icy Terrain and Steal Time and the TR is at half health and freaking out. All you have to do from here on is throw in some at wills and TR gonna be as dead as they get
The fact that TRs suck in PVE shouldn't be considered a reason they should be able to ruin any fun that can be had in PVP.
They should be made viable for PVE and made fightable in PVP.
Very true, but the way stealth is currently designed in Neverwinter is extremely badly thought out for PvP.
While in stealth TRs have huge advantages, while outside it they are very vulnerable. It is this dichotomy which makes balancing the class extremely difficult.
I thought another CW would actually understand my post, maybe read it again?
Let me reiterate:
- lantern is awesome! 100% guaranteed chance of revealing, damaging AND debuffing the TR! It's basically GG the moment you pop it - you can see the TRs running scared in all directions Pretty much press button to win!
- those AoEs are awesome in PvP! Only n0ob CWs don't use them on TRs. Just pop Icy Terrain and Steal Time and the TR is at half health and freaking out. All you have to do from here on is throw in some at wills and TR gonna be as dead as they get
I hope you understand now, yes?
Im sorry, but didn't you argue forever ago that every cw HAS to run shard, icy rays, entangling force?! pretty sure you just contradicted what you told others in past forums...
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
If TR are as good as you imagine to be, aka INVINCIBLE. Everyone in PVP will be rolling a TR.
There is no way for a CW to fight a halfway decent perma-rogue. You can't see them, and when you can they just pop ITC and you can't hurt them.
I've done plenty of research and played against plenty of perma-rogues. It's well known that there CWs and to a lesser degree all classes have little to no chance against permas.
Lot's of people in PVP ARE rolling perma-TRs. I'm not because like I said I'd feel like I was cheating if someone wasn't able to fight back against me.
Very true, but the way stealth is currently designed in Neverwinter is extremely badly thought out for PvP.
While in stealth TRs have huge advantages, while outside it they are very vulnerable. It is this dichotomy which makes balancing the class extremely difficult.
The thing is with ITC they can be invulnerable outside of stealth as well. It's not bad enough to have a class that can stealth almost forever, has range abilities but is a melee class, has the highest damage burst daily in pvp, and moves faster in stealth. They also have a built in invulnerability.
It's probably the worst balanced class in the history of MMORPGs.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Im sorry, but didn't you argue forever ago that every cw HAS to run shard, icy rays, entangling force?! pretty sure you just contradicted what you told others in past forums...
Nope these are bad nowadays, let the past stay in the past.
Steal Time+Icy Terrain BiS for permas, you can contest points 1vs1 no issues, TRs would avoid CWs with these spells+lantern slotted, even the full r10 guys.
Path of the Blade barely tickles, you can stay in it no issues whatsoever.
Duelist Flurry no issues, looks silly, damage is bad, CW is safe.
Shadow Strike? Pfft. So what if it replenishes stealth? No TR is safe from CW AoEs... ever
Bait and Switch? Kill every dummy you see! Nothing should stay "alive"
Tenacious Concealment? The CW AoE damage from Steal Time and Icy Terrain so great, this class feat is useless
Shocking Execution? Barely tickles. Mostly there for the lulz, just take it like a man (since you cannot do anything else) and laugh at the minuscule damage
Bloodbath? Irrelevant daily. TR does some stuff around the area, nobody cares
Impossible to Catch? So what, class is already weak and nobody wants to play it. Give them some deflect and immunity. Actually, I'd buff this encounter further.
Jump around pop ITC jump around more while invulnerable, then Skillful Execution 26k crit(when my CW has 80% HP still) clearly nothing is broken and everything is working as intended rogtars were just meant to be that way.
I have a TR and am ok with them nerfing the perma build as long as they do it correctly. IE not just a general stealth nerf as that will affect every TR.
Comments
Essence of Aggression
sorry i dont use chairs, im playing in my laptop, in my bed
Problem with PvP and balance, is Cryptic actually listened to people like you....unfortunately therein lies the problem.
In your puggish mentality you cry the ocean of tears because a Control Wizard is having a difficult time beating a Perma Stealth TR (More than Likely just a TR with high Recovery btw), in a 1 vs 1 scenario.
Problem is this. Skill, class, gear, builds ALL have a tremendous amount to do with the outcome of a 1 vs 1 scenario. If you, are having a difficult time fighting a TR, then switch nodes? That's what we do in premades. We don't cry and call nerf on an ENTIRE class, because we cant seem to beat one specific TR, or GWF, or GF, or CW, or DC. We.......switch, OR.......we get back up. Its a 5 vs 5.....NOT you vs the world.
Pug Mentality ---> I cant beat /insert any class here, lets make a post on the forum or make a troll comment in /zone!
End Game PvP Mentality ---> Havin trouble at 1 with this TR, someone switch.
GWF almost dead on 3, need some dps
Incoming 2..need help, CW go 1
See where I'm going here?
People like you have ruined PvP for the rest of us that knew it was fine months ago, except some minor specific class abilities that needed "tweaking", and addition of a couple new PvP maps.
Not against a perma-rogue they aren't.
Sure they are
Just cast Steal Time, Icy Terrain and other AoEs and use lantern.
You'll be just fine. All you have to do is adapt and there you go, TRs will fall like flies around your CW.
I said playing CW at the highest levels of PVP. There are only quite a few because CW is handicapped in PVP and always loses 1v1 node duels against GWF and TR.
Against pugs, CW is really fun to play with.
so if you think tr is easy to play go ahead roll one.
That's not true.
1st of all, enough with the lantern thing. Relying on an artifact to fight on class is rediculous. 2ndly, it doesn't even work most of the time. A rogue will just go out of range until it expires then you have nothing for 3 minutes.
2nd, AOEs like you mentioned are bad for PVP in general. If a rogue makes you change your entire skillset just to fight him, he's already won.
No thanks I'd rather not play a class that relies on basically cheating to win.
of course some skills will work better for some enemies than others. So, you much beter to claim for nerfing a class instead of actually learning how to play it and, therefore learning to play against it. Interesting.
oh noes, I cant kill someone they must be cheating!
Cause that is the only reason why you died......
^I know, right?
1)like you said, the lantern's pointless. Even if you get it to legendary, a 6 second, might see rogue if he/she's in range, small damage aoe with a 2 minute cooldown is NOT going to cut it.
2)The AoEs mentioned are not that useful in pvp either. Steal Time leaves you too vulnerable and takes too long. Icy Terrain is pointless because in mastery slot, you need to know where they are, and if not in slot, they can just range you. The only AoEs I put any factor into is Singularity and Oppressive Force, but those are dailies. A skilled rogue can basically see what youre doing(theyre both choreographed), and dodge out of/into the AoE, making it useless.
Not complaining about Perma Stealth, just debunking the so called "defenses" that I constantly see to face them.
I have more fun with my mate than alone. We know how to mix and match our classes and get back at people. We don't unbalance the game because there's only two of us and we're not noobs with Vorpal.
Preach against Vorpal in <60 PvP. So many people have it and are idiots at their class, but win because they can hot 6k with a TR @ 39 in PvP.
I don't consider CWs handicapped in PVP. They just rely on their team more, like an HR(although not as much as an HR).
Sorry, youre missing the point. This is a Perma Stealth discussion. Please look for threads about gwf/dc/hr/cw/gf pvp complaints. Theres already quite a bit of them too.
And I already explained the lantern bs. Having to devote an artifact just for seeing a class for 6 seconds is a bs defense that youre qq'ing about.
Im already certain youre mad about the GWF's OPness in PVP...
So youre being pretty hypocritical by jumping people's case about talking/qq'ing about TR's Perma Stealth here.
And here we have some CWs complaing about PVP and some perma stealth TRs (note not all TRs are like that)
it evens out, kind of.
Some character more suited for pve, other more for pvp, sometimes both (points at GWFs)
More like I can't even ATTACK someone.
Yeah, it's basically cheating if someone can kill you and you can't even attack them, let alone see them, most of the fight, and when you can see them they're invincible.
Anybody reasonable would agree.
The fact that TRs suck in PVE shouldn't be considered a reason they should be able to ruin any fun that can be had in PVP.
They should be made viable for PVE and made fightable in PVP.
Using class features and powers that are working as (currently) intended cannot possibly be considered 'cheating' by any rational human being. TBH it just sounds childish and petulant.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
So you think it's reasonable to have a class you can't attack or see and when you can they're invincible.
Obviously, you like to have unfair advantages or maybe need them to play games, but I know I would feel like I was cheating if I was winning games because I played a perma-rogue.
Clearly you don't know HOW to fight a TR.
If TR are as good as you imagine to be, aka INVINCIBLE. Everyone in PVP will be rolling a TR.
This hurts my feelings as a CW
I thought another CW would actually understand my post, maybe read it again?
Let me reiterate:
- lantern is awesome! 100% guaranteed chance of revealing, damaging AND debuffing the TR! It's basically GG the moment you pop it - you can see the TRs running scared in all directions
- those AoEs are awesome in PvP! Only n0ob CWs don't use them on TRs. Just pop Icy Terrain and Steal Time and the TR is at half health and freaking out. All you have to do from here on is throw in some at wills and TR gonna be as dead as they get
I hope you understand now, yes?
Very true, but the way stealth is currently designed in Neverwinter is extremely badly thought out for PvP.
While in stealth TRs have huge advantages, while outside it they are very vulnerable. It is this dichotomy which makes balancing the class extremely difficult.
Im sorry, but didn't you argue forever ago that every cw HAS to run shard, icy rays, entangling force?! pretty sure you just contradicted what you told others in past forums...
There is no way for a CW to fight a halfway decent perma-rogue. You can't see them, and when you can they just pop ITC and you can't hurt them.
I've done plenty of research and played against plenty of perma-rogues. It's well known that there CWs and to a lesser degree all classes have little to no chance against permas.
Lot's of people in PVP ARE rolling perma-TRs. I'm not because like I said I'd feel like I was cheating if someone wasn't able to fight back against me.
The thing is with ITC they can be invulnerable outside of stealth as well. It's not bad enough to have a class that can stealth almost forever, has range abilities but is a melee class, has the highest damage burst daily in pvp, and moves faster in stealth. They also have a built in invulnerability.
It's probably the worst balanced class in the history of MMORPGs.
Nope these are bad nowadays, let the past stay in the past.
Steal Time+Icy Terrain BiS for permas, you can contest points 1vs1 no issues, TRs would avoid CWs with these spells+lantern slotted, even the full r10 guys.
Path of the Blade barely tickles, you can stay in it no issues whatsoever.
Duelist Flurry no issues, looks silly, damage is bad, CW is safe.
Shadow Strike? Pfft. So what if it replenishes stealth? No TR is safe from CW AoEs... ever
Bait and Switch? Kill every dummy you see! Nothing should stay "alive"
Tenacious Concealment? The CW AoE damage from Steal Time and Icy Terrain so great, this class feat is useless
Shocking Execution? Barely tickles. Mostly there for the lulz, just take it like a man (since you cannot do anything else) and laugh at the minuscule damage
Bloodbath? Irrelevant daily. TR does some stuff around the area, nobody cares
Impossible to Catch? So what, class is already weak and nobody wants to play it. Give them some deflect and immunity. Actually, I'd buff this encounter further.
That's about it I suppose.