I thought another CW would actually understand my post, maybe read it again?
Let me reiterate:
- lantern is awesome! 100% guaranteed chance of revealing, damaging AND debuffing the TR! It's basically GG the moment you pop it - you can see the TRs running scared in all directions Pretty much press button to win!
- those AoEs are awesome in PvP! Only n0ob CWs don't use them on TRs. Just pop Icy Terrain and Steal Time and the TR is at half health and freaking out. All you have to do from here on is throw in some at wills and TR gonna be as dead as they get
I hope you understand now, yes?
Im sorry, but didn't you argue forever ago that every cw HAS to run shard, icy rays, entangling force?! pretty sure you just contradicted what you told others in past forums...
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
If TR are as good as you imagine to be, aka INVINCIBLE. Everyone in PVP will be rolling a TR.
There is no way for a CW to fight a halfway decent perma-rogue. You can't see them, and when you can they just pop ITC and you can't hurt them.
I've done plenty of research and played against plenty of perma-rogues. It's well known that there CWs and to a lesser degree all classes have little to no chance against permas.
Lot's of people in PVP ARE rolling perma-TRs. I'm not because like I said I'd feel like I was cheating if someone wasn't able to fight back against me.
Very true, but the way stealth is currently designed in Neverwinter is extremely badly thought out for PvP.
While in stealth TRs have huge advantages, while outside it they are very vulnerable. It is this dichotomy which makes balancing the class extremely difficult.
The thing is with ITC they can be invulnerable outside of stealth as well. It's not bad enough to have a class that can stealth almost forever, has range abilities but is a melee class, has the highest damage burst daily in pvp, and moves faster in stealth. They also have a built in invulnerability.
It's probably the worst balanced class in the history of MMORPGs.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Im sorry, but didn't you argue forever ago that every cw HAS to run shard, icy rays, entangling force?! pretty sure you just contradicted what you told others in past forums...
Nope these are bad nowadays, let the past stay in the past.
Steal Time+Icy Terrain BiS for permas, you can contest points 1vs1 no issues, TRs would avoid CWs with these spells+lantern slotted, even the full r10 guys.
Path of the Blade barely tickles, you can stay in it no issues whatsoever.
Duelist Flurry no issues, looks silly, damage is bad, CW is safe.
Shadow Strike? Pfft. So what if it replenishes stealth? No TR is safe from CW AoEs... ever
Bait and Switch? Kill every dummy you see! Nothing should stay "alive"
Tenacious Concealment? The CW AoE damage from Steal Time and Icy Terrain so great, this class feat is useless
Shocking Execution? Barely tickles. Mostly there for the lulz, just take it like a man (since you cannot do anything else) and laugh at the minuscule damage
Bloodbath? Irrelevant daily. TR does some stuff around the area, nobody cares
Impossible to Catch? So what, class is already weak and nobody wants to play it. Give them some deflect and immunity. Actually, I'd buff this encounter further.
Jump around pop ITC jump around more while invulnerable, then Skillful Execution 26k crit(when my CW has 80% HP still) clearly nothing is broken and everything is working as intended rogtars were just meant to be that way.
I have a TR and am ok with them nerfing the perma build as long as they do it correctly. IE not just a general stealth nerf as that will affect every TR.
Nope these are bad nowadays, let the past stay in the past.
Steal Time+Icy Terrain BiS for permas, you can contest points 1vs1 no issues, TRs would avoid CWs with these spells+lantern slotted, even the full r10 guys.
Path of the Blade barely tickles, you can stay in it no issues whatsoever.
Duelist Flurry no issues, looks silly, damage is bad, CW is safe.
Shadow Strike? Pfft. So what if it replenishes stealth? No TR is safe from CW AoEs... ever
Bait and Switch? Kill every dummy you see! Nothing should stay "alive"
Tenacious Concealment? The CW AoE damage from Steal Time and Icy Terrain so great, this class feat is useless
Shocking Execution? Barely tickles. Mostly there for the lulz, just take it like a man (since you cannot do anything else) and laugh at the minuscule damage
Bloodbath? Irrelevant daily. TR does some stuff around the area, nobody cares
Impossible to Catch? So what, class is already weak and nobody wants to play it. Give them some deflect and immunity. Actually, I'd buff this encounter further.
That's about it I suppose.
Okay, so something YOU YOURSELF said was so integral to pvp, is now invalid, even though you were defending it so vehemently in past threads? like you were called in earlier threads, FLIP FLOPPITY
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
So you think it's reasonable to have a class you can't attack or see and when you can they're invincible.
Obviously, you like to have unfair advantages or maybe need them to play games, but I know I would feel like I was cheating if I was winning games because I played a perma-rogue.
I think it's reasonable for people to play a class and use all the powers and features available to that class without childish comments being made about them 'cheating'.
And lol at your feeble attempt to attack me. I don't run a perma build or even anything close.
Lot's of people in PVP ARE rolling perma-TRs. I'm not because like I said I'd feel like I was cheating if someone wasn't able to fight back against me.
I agree with you on this hamlet. The TR population was primarily perma stealth when even beta was up. The rogue I made in beta neverwinter was dps burst based, and didn't know about perma stealth at the time... when she hit 60, and I tried pvp(this was still before it was live, btw) I was actually complimented, because I didn't use perma stealth. Then had a running chat with the person who explained it in full detail, and I was like, "what?!"
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Okay, so something YOU YOURSELF said was so integral to pvp, is now invalid, even though you were defending it so vehemently in past threads? like you were called in earlier threads, FLIP FLOPPITY
I have a sarcasm detector you can borrow. Yours appears to be badly out of calibration.
I think it's reasonable for people to play a class and use all the powers and features available to that class without childish comments being made about them 'cheating'.
And lol at your feeble attempt to attack me. I don't run a perma build or even anything close.
You stay gold man. Perma stealth is annoying to face, but your right as a player to play it. I don't like it, but will defend your right to use it.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
I have a sarcasm detector you can borrow. Yours appears to be badly out of calibration.
sorry, maybe it was a bit harsh. but this guy follows me around threads throwing bs my way all the time. seriously, check HIS posts... theyre full of "this is wrong/your stupid/I know what to do and no one else does".
I was just merely citing that, not even a month ago, he had a hissy fit about cw abilities vs hr abilities, and his defense was "if youre not using shard, icy rays, entangling force, conduit as your ONLY cw abilities, your gimping yourself as a cw, and all the best cws use ONLY THOSE POWERS". Just calling out his bull, man.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Nope these are bad nowadays, let the past stay in the past.
Steal Time+Icy Terrain BiS for permas, you can contest points 1vs1 no issues, TRs would avoid CWs with these spells+lantern slotted, even the full r10 guys.
Path of the Blade barely tickles, you can stay in it no issues whatsoever.
Duelist Flurry no issues, looks silly, damage is bad, CW is safe.
Shadow Strike? Pfft. So what if it replenishes stealth? No TR is safe from CW AoEs... ever
Bait and Switch? Kill every dummy you see! Nothing should stay "alive"
Tenacious Concealment? The CW AoE damage from Steal Time and Icy Terrain so great, this class feat is useless
Shocking Execution? Barely tickles. Mostly there for the lulz, just take it like a man (since you cannot do anything else) and laugh at the minuscule damage
Bloodbath? Irrelevant daily. TR does some stuff around the area, nobody cares
Impossible to Catch? So what, class is already weak and nobody wants to play it. Give them some deflect and immunity. Actually, I'd buff this encounter further.
That's about it I suppose.
When did you go from hating the rogues as an underpowered CW to a TR buff advocate? lol. I do have to say though, despite my character being severely lacking in gear at the unfortunate moment, the one time I briefly met you in PvP your setup was much more effective than I would've anticipated going against any CW 1v1. Maybe in my brief absence from the game I hadn't run into a truely good CW again yet? Or it looks like CW has better potential now against stealth based rogues than before?
Also you are a much more light-hearted/friendly person in game than I would've anticipated from some of the forum posts from a while back. I feel bad for the small arguments on here in the past.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Okay, so something YOU YOURSELF said was so integral to pvp, is now invalid, even though you were defending it so vehemently in past threads? like you were called in earlier threads, FLIP FLOPPITY
Hehe I suppose the "subtlety" in my posts is hard to comprehend.
I think it's reasonable for people to play a class and use all the powers and features available to that class without childish comments being made about them 'cheating'.
And lol at your feeble attempt to attack me. I don't run a perma build or even anything close.
"Cheating" is the best way to describe a situation where you win because of an unbeatable unfair advantage. Just because the game mechanics allow for it doesn't mean it's right, or fun.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
sorry, maybe it was a bit harsh. but this guy follows me around threads throwing bs my way all the time. seriously, check HIS posts... theyre full of "this is wrong/your stupid/I know what to do and no one else does".
I was just merely citing that, not even a month ago, he had a hissy fit about cw abilities vs hr abilities, and his defense was "if youre not using shard, icy rays, entangling force, conduit as your ONLY cw abilities, your gimping yourself as a cw, and all the best cws use ONLY THOSE POWERS". Just calling out his bull, man.
When did you go from hating the rogues as an underpowered CW to a TR buff advocate? lol. I do have to say though, despite my character being severely lacking in gear at the unfortunate moment, the one time I briefly met you in PvP your setup was much more effective than I would've anticipated going against any CW 1v1. Maybe in my brief absence from the game I hadn't run into a truely good CW again yet? Or it looks like CW has better potential now against stealth based rogues than before?
Also you are a much more light-hearted/friendly person in game than I would've anticipated from some of the forum posts from a while back. I feel bad for the small arguments on here in the past.
There's someone above that got it tho lol, one person, from so many.
Hehe I suppose the "subtlety" in my posts is hard to comprehend.
I must do better!
And I suppose sticking to your guns, and discussing, as opposed to knocking what other experienced players have to say is too hard for you to comprehend too.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
"Cheating" is the best way to describe a situation where you win because of an unbeatable unfair advantage. Just because the game mechanics allow for it doesn't mean it's right, or fun.
No, that is much closer to "bad game design" than to "cheating".
There's someone above that got it tho lol, one person, from so many.
Forums serious business? haha
Nice meeting you
And you were just politely trolling/flaming anyone and everyone who disagreed with your narrow minded views? Lie if I ever saw one.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
"Cheating" is the best way to describe a situation where you win because of an unbeatable unfair advantage. Just because the game mechanics allow for it doesn't mean it's right, or fun.
It can't be cheating unless you're exploiting, and the devs have made it abundantly clear that perma stealth is not an exploit.
Here's a question for you - if my lowly 12k GS toon gets roflstomped by a 16k GS toon, is that cheating as well? After all, the 16k player has an unbeatable unfair advantage over me...
It can't be cheating unless you're exploiting, and the devs have made it abundantly clear that perma stealth is not an exploit.
Here's a question for you - if my lowly 12k GS toon gets roflstomped by a 16k GS toon, is that cheating as well? After all, the 16k player has an unbeatable unfair advantage over me...
No, because you can work towards making things even. No amount of work can help you fight perma-stealth rogues on most classes.
Obviously the Devs intend for people to be able to play perma-stealth, but that doesn't change the fact that it's probably the most unbalanced spec in the history of MMORPGs.
The only thing I can think of that comes close is when rogues could 1-shot people from stealth in WoW and when engineering rogues could 2 shot people from range in RIFT. But those cases were fixed.
people have posted about stealth being lost when the tr attacks like most other mmos. which may help but the one of the main reason permas are tough to deal with is because the have multiple range abilities.In most mmos the stealth class requires them to be in melee range to do most of their abilities. and in most cases they woulodnt even have any range abilities or ones that were low damage and they wouldnt use. so if they arent in melee range it lessen your chance to detect them. TO me its the combo of perma and range that really makes it more tough to deal with. im not sure what can be done to make it more balanced but just wanted to point out its not just stealth but range with it that almost makes it to where you cant find them.
people have posted about stealth being lost when the tr attacks like most other mmos. which may help but the one of the main reason permas are tough to deal with is because the have multiple range abilities.In most mmos the stealth class requires them to be in melee range to do most of their abilities. and in most cases they woulodnt even have any range abilities or ones that were low damage and they wouldnt use. so if they arent in melee range it lessen your chance to detect them. TO me its the combo of perma and range that really makes it more tough to deal with. im not sure what can be done to make it more balanced but just wanted to point out its not just stealth but range with it that almost makes it to where you cant find them.
Interesting point - is there any necessity for TRs to have a range attack? Any idea of something that could replace with?
"Cheating" is the best way to describe a situation where you win because of an unbeatable unfair advantage. Just because the game mechanics allow for it doesn't mean it's right, or fun.
The same can be used to describe "incompetence."
Tell me, when CW's chain-CC people from an 80' range and your opponents can't do anything to react while they get sent to spawn, this is what you describe as an unfair advantage, right? So by your standards, your own class is cheating. Goodness, that's just atrocious and should be nerfed.
No amount of work can help you fight perma-stealth rogues on most classes.
Not with that mindset, no.
It's like this, friend. The TR's Stealth simply eliminates your "range" and allow ourselves to close in on you. We have skills and feats that allow us to extend Stealth, and when built in a certain way, we can extend this even further. In order to attack you, we need to use our At-Wills, sacrificing burst DPS for low sustained DPS. And sometimes we have to go into melee range to attack you, thereby risking our "unfair advantage" towards your class.
Your CW class is a long-ranged, cloth-wearing glass cannon. You're having troubles with us because we eliminate your supposed "advantage" towards the other classes; your range, DPS AND CC, three very deadly factors in PVP when combined. If the chain CC's hit a TR without Stealth, which is the next most squishy class after the CW, they get sent to spawn. But we don't want to get sent into spawn, therefore we use our tools to get rid of your advantage towards us which is Stealth; our ability to negate your range, reduce it to 10' (melee range), and prevent your CC's from landing which is pretty much your main mode of offense and defense. We can do all of that, simply because we are the antithesis of your class, its supposed "perfect counter" because of Stealth.
Obviously this does not pose much of a problem for melee classes who can hold their own ground thanks to their mitigation (HR's, GWF's, DC's, GF's), and it's actually an advantage for them to have the TR close in on melee with the exception of the DC. It's just you guys that tend to have the problems with TR's of mostly any build, not just "permas" (the real ones, mind you), because TR's are the natural counter for CW's.
Interesting point - is there any necessity for TRs to have a range attack? Any idea of something that could replace with?
Deft Strike, one of our encounters, used to be an At-Will in the place of Cloud of Steel. Why the devs changed it, I have no clue. Impact Shot is no longer usable so there's not much point in nerfing it further or replacing it.
Comments
Im sorry, but didn't you argue forever ago that every cw HAS to run shard, icy rays, entangling force?! pretty sure you just contradicted what you told others in past forums...
There is no way for a CW to fight a halfway decent perma-rogue. You can't see them, and when you can they just pop ITC and you can't hurt them.
I've done plenty of research and played against plenty of perma-rogues. It's well known that there CWs and to a lesser degree all classes have little to no chance against permas.
Lot's of people in PVP ARE rolling perma-TRs. I'm not because like I said I'd feel like I was cheating if someone wasn't able to fight back against me.
The thing is with ITC they can be invulnerable outside of stealth as well. It's not bad enough to have a class that can stealth almost forever, has range abilities but is a melee class, has the highest damage burst daily in pvp, and moves faster in stealth. They also have a built in invulnerability.
It's probably the worst balanced class in the history of MMORPGs.
Nope these are bad nowadays, let the past stay in the past.
Steal Time+Icy Terrain BiS for permas, you can contest points 1vs1 no issues, TRs would avoid CWs with these spells+lantern slotted, even the full r10 guys.
Path of the Blade barely tickles, you can stay in it no issues whatsoever.
Duelist Flurry no issues, looks silly, damage is bad, CW is safe.
Shadow Strike? Pfft. So what if it replenishes stealth? No TR is safe from CW AoEs... ever
Bait and Switch? Kill every dummy you see! Nothing should stay "alive"
Tenacious Concealment? The CW AoE damage from Steal Time and Icy Terrain so great, this class feat is useless
Shocking Execution? Barely tickles. Mostly there for the lulz, just take it like a man (since you cannot do anything else) and laugh at the minuscule damage
Bloodbath? Irrelevant daily. TR does some stuff around the area, nobody cares
Impossible to Catch? So what, class is already weak and nobody wants to play it. Give them some deflect and immunity. Actually, I'd buff this encounter further.
That's about it I suppose.
Okay, so something YOU YOURSELF said was so integral to pvp, is now invalid, even though you were defending it so vehemently in past threads? like you were called in earlier threads, FLIP FLOPPITY
And lol at your feeble attempt to attack me. I don't run a perma build or even anything close.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I dont think any tr would mind a stealth nerf vs a damage boost! Well just need more recovery! mouhahahaha
I agree with you on this hamlet. The TR population was primarily perma stealth when even beta was up. The rogue I made in beta neverwinter was dps burst based, and didn't know about perma stealth at the time... when she hit 60, and I tried pvp(this was still before it was live, btw) I was actually complimented, because I didn't use perma stealth. Then had a running chat with the person who explained it in full detail, and I was like, "what?!"
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
You stay gold man. Perma stealth is annoying to face, but your right as a player to play it. I don't like it, but will defend your right to use it.
sorry, maybe it was a bit harsh. but this guy follows me around threads throwing bs my way all the time. seriously, check HIS posts... theyre full of "this is wrong/your stupid/I know what to do and no one else does".
I was just merely citing that, not even a month ago, he had a hissy fit about cw abilities vs hr abilities, and his defense was "if youre not using shard, icy rays, entangling force, conduit as your ONLY cw abilities, your gimping yourself as a cw, and all the best cws use ONLY THOSE POWERS". Just calling out his bull, man.
When did you go from hating the rogues as an underpowered CW to a TR buff advocate? lol. I do have to say though, despite my character being severely lacking in gear at the unfortunate moment, the one time I briefly met you in PvP your setup was much more effective than I would've anticipated going against any CW 1v1. Maybe in my brief absence from the game I hadn't run into a truely good CW again yet? Or it looks like CW has better potential now against stealth based rogues than before?
Also you are a much more light-hearted/friendly person in game than I would've anticipated from some of the forum posts from a while back. I feel bad for the small arguments on here in the past.
Hehe I suppose the "subtlety" in my posts is hard to comprehend.
I must do better!
"Cheating" is the best way to describe a situation where you win because of an unbeatable unfair advantage. Just because the game mechanics allow for it doesn't mean it's right, or fun.
Lies. All lies. GG on persistent trolling though.
There's someone above that got it tho lol, one person, from so many.
Forums serious business? haha
Nice meeting you
And I suppose sticking to your guns, and discussing, as opposed to knocking what other experienced players have to say is too hard for you to comprehend too.
Im trolling, because I called out your backtracking and flip flopping?! GG on your persistent lying though.
And you were just politely trolling/flaming anyone and everyone who disagreed with your narrow minded views? Lie if I ever saw one.
Here's a question for you - if my lowly 12k GS toon gets roflstomped by a 16k GS toon, is that cheating as well? After all, the 16k player has an unbeatable unfair advantage over me...
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
No, because you can work towards making things even. No amount of work can help you fight perma-stealth rogues on most classes.
Obviously the Devs intend for people to be able to play perma-stealth, but that doesn't change the fact that it's probably the most unbalanced spec in the history of MMORPGs.
The only thing I can think of that comes close is when rogues could 1-shot people from stealth in WoW and when engineering rogues could 2 shot people from range in RIFT. But those cases were fixed.
Interesting point - is there any necessity for TRs to have a range attack? Any idea of something that could replace with?
Well they made a pargon path for trs based on range atacks so not sure how you see it...
Anyway...remember PoB? Last viable damage skill for trs? Damage nerf 30% in module 3:) You can laugh now...
Where did you get that info ?
The same can be used to describe "incompetence."
Tell me, when CW's chain-CC people from an 80' range and your opponents can't do anything to react while they get sent to spawn, this is what you describe as an unfair advantage, right? So by your standards, your own class is cheating. Goodness, that's just atrocious and should be nerfed.
Not with that mindset, no.
It's like this, friend. The TR's Stealth simply eliminates your "range" and allow ourselves to close in on you. We have skills and feats that allow us to extend Stealth, and when built in a certain way, we can extend this even further. In order to attack you, we need to use our At-Wills, sacrificing burst DPS for low sustained DPS. And sometimes we have to go into melee range to attack you, thereby risking our "unfair advantage" towards your class.
Your CW class is a long-ranged, cloth-wearing glass cannon. You're having troubles with us because we eliminate your supposed "advantage" towards the other classes; your range, DPS AND CC, three very deadly factors in PVP when combined. If the chain CC's hit a TR without Stealth, which is the next most squishy class after the CW, they get sent to spawn. But we don't want to get sent into spawn, therefore we use our tools to get rid of your advantage towards us which is Stealth; our ability to negate your range, reduce it to 10' (melee range), and prevent your CC's from landing which is pretty much your main mode of offense and defense. We can do all of that, simply because we are the antithesis of your class, its supposed "perfect counter" because of Stealth.
Obviously this does not pose much of a problem for melee classes who can hold their own ground thanks to their mitigation (HR's, GWF's, DC's, GF's), and it's actually an advantage for them to have the TR close in on melee with the exception of the DC. It's just you guys that tend to have the problems with TR's of mostly any build, not just "permas" (the real ones, mind you), because TR's are the natural counter for CW's.
But it can crit now!
After which though, I'm confident that skill will get a LOT of complaints.
Deft Strike, one of our encounters, used to be an At-Will in the place of Cloud of Steel. Why the devs changed it, I have no clue. Impact Shot is no longer usable so there's not much point in nerfing it further or replacing it.