because permastealth came into the metagame AFTER the DMG nerf, not Before, several players called you out on your incorrect chronology. If your going to argue something at least get you facts right.But now that i think about it,I'm starting to feel you don;t believe what your saying and actually trying to get a rise out of people, otherwise you would have corrected your error awhile ago when making your arguments, since several people already pointed that out before.
Was this post meant seriously? Who called me out about what? I am afraid you had not your facts right. for your chronology.
And for you this is the defintion what a troll is. I'd say your post fits well into that category.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Was this post meant seriously? Who called me out about what? I am afraid you had not your facts right. for your chronology.
And for you this is the defintion what a troll is. I'd say your post fits well into that category.
This is what you said "Perma-stealth was critizised since the game came out and for good reason:"
The build you listed is 2013, the game was in 2012. So you basically showed me nothing except that you think the game was created in 2013,and that you are missing about a year
you are still a troll, if you weren't you would have corrected your errors as was pointed out to you, if your errors have been corrected you would have at least been more credible,and further discussions could then have more efficiency.
Basing your core argument upon an error, is fallacious, at the very least admit your error and correct yourself for a more efficient way of promoting your cause.It would at the very least show you sincerity in you cause rather then creating an argument base on a fallacy.
0
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
I would also be happy if rogues can get faster back into stealth if as compensation they turn visible to their victim when dealing damage.
edit: @sasoras12 please look when open beta came out. I am not arguing with you about that anymore.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
This is what you said "Perma-stealth was critizised since the game came out and for good reason:"
The build you listed is 2013, the game was in 2012. So you basically showed me nothing except that you think the game was created in 2013,and that you are missing about a year
you are still a troll.
While I disagree with adernath, closed beta weekend number one was 2/8/13 thru 2/10/13. Now was the game worked on previously? Of course, however the public first got access to it in 2013 in a large way. (Previously I'm sure some small amount of non-employee's had access to alpha testing if it is like other companies)
While I disagree with adernath, closed beta weekend number one was 2/8/13 thru 2/10/13. Now was the game worked on previously? Of course, however the public first got access to it in 2013 in a large way. (Previously I'm sure some small amount of non-employee's had access to alpha testing if it is like other companies)
ok let me rephrase the game didn't come out on July 2013 on the exact date he listed that build, i didn;t want to specifically waste my time looking at specific months, but chronologically he is still wrong. and "came out" has different meaning for people, so semantics.
ok let me rephrase the game didn't come out on July 2013 on the exact date he listed that build, i didn;t want to specifically waste my time looking at specific months, but chronologically he is still wrong. and came out has different meaning for people, so semantics.
Dude you said the game came out 2012, closed beta was 2013, open beta was 2013, official launch was 2013. How is your statement not just flat out wrong. It's ok to be wrong, just say oops my bad and move on.
Dude you said the game came out 2012, closed beta was 2013, open beta was 2013, official launch was 2013. How is your statement not just flat out wrong. It's ok to be wrong, just say oops my bad and move on.
Like i said semantics. if you were in closed beta you would still have feed back and experience the game, official launch is what "came out" for you.
If you think i meant official launch then yes you are right i am wrong.
1.
the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including formal semantics, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, lexical semantics, which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning.
the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text
you typed
The build you listed is 2013, the game was in 2012. So you basically showed me nothing except that you think the game was created in 2013,and that you are missing about a year
This is not true, TRs can use CC encounters (Daze/Smoke), re-stealthing encounters (Shadow/BaS) or nearly invulnerable encounters (ITC)
What I am saying is there are clearly encounters that have been strong that are no longer because of changes. I would love to see lashing blade come back in the pvp arena, and I think the way to do that and make it fair to both sides is to do as I suggested:
Make Lashing Blade stealth bonus = 50% reduced CD (from 20 to 10 seconds) INSTEAD of 100% crit. ALSO, make the damage delt deal 50% of its current damage upfront with another 50% following over 5 seconds as a DOT.
This still makes it ALOT of damage but noone uses it because the long CD... Since crits were nerfed alot giving it 100% crit chance isnt really that big a deal... but a 50% reduced CD would make this VERY attractive since it is a hard hitting ability, THAT would make it OP so to combat THAT, making it deal half of its damage as a DOT balances it out...
This would make more TRs have more options for encounters. I know this Lashing change would maybe make me bring my TR out of retirement just to have some fun with it again.
DS is hard to land out of stealth. People just walk out of smoke bomb, and it's no use against ranged attackers. BaS doesn't refill stealth unless you're in stealth when you activate it. ITC gives you 5 whole seconds of enhanced deflect and CC immunity - at the end of which you die unless you're in stealth.
Any rogue who wants to not use perma-stealth needs to be able to hit hard in the limited amount of time they have before being CC'd into oblivion. Even with tenacity.
For instance, in other PW game, Star Trek Online, cloaked ships are able to do some stuff while cloaked. Ie firing heals, torpedos. But they cannot use main asset - Energy weapons, which deal most damage. They cant even cap point while cloaked. That is the way NW Rogues must go. U must give something for your invisibillty.
This is Star Trek canon behaviour for cloaked vessels and nothing to do with game balance. And in any case irrelevant as no cloaked vessel has to give up any of it's uncloaked capabilities in order to have a cloaking device. So being uncloaked isn't the instant death sentence that being out of stealth is for a rogue in NW.
Its getting a bit off-topic talking about other games, but let me respond to that: I have similar long time XP in WoW, playing as mage in PvP. Then you would know that this 'meat' comes naturally with PvP gear. No one would seriously consider to socket more HP on his gear as a mage.
Honestly I saw enough TRs which are just doing fine in PVE. If they are not in the top dmg list the reason is generally because there are so many adds in the dungeons and they lack in AOE. Future dungeons could maybe contain only a few - but difficult - bosses and adds here and there, but not en mass.
Of course: if you run around with a build which focuses on the permstealth exploit by dropping useful PVE feats, then it is normal that your TR will become very useless in PVE. On a sidenote: I am also fine if the TRs damage is buffed again if as compensation he turns shortly visible for his victim when dealing damage. This is also in most other games I know about (if you said you had XP in other games you know this as well).
So lets do some OT.
~top kek, wow~
So I guess you were playing frost what was defensive specialization focused mostly on slows, shields and he was really not a glass cannon => useless in PvE (Onyxia & Ragnaros was another story) But lets talk about TBC+, how many arcane & fire mages were in high bracket PvP? 0, zero, nula, null...Anyway WoW is really bad example of PvP game, yes, it was popular, but there was only 1-3 playable talent builds in PvP for single class. Everyone had same gems, enchants, items and talents. You could say it was fair, but it was pretty stereotypic. What I wanna say - you had no choice in gear.
/OT
TR: No, he is not. Its not about AoE dmg, HRs provides AoE dmg and they are still useless & unwanted in dungeons. Try LFG with TR and you will see how ''fine'' is he doing in PvE.
We don't need to change stealth mechanism, it works pretty well right now. Ask in PvP guilds here if they have trouble with permas. (They have not)
Do all classes have way how to counter them? Yes they do...But still is forum full of QQspams about TRs & stealths.
- Imho traps, hidden locks, etc in dungeons could be best way how to give a TR place in group.
- Remake feats - TR have worst made feats ingame.
~permastealth exploit~ I'm done.
I hope you are just a troll, if not, it would be really sad.
Anyone with a clue knows bilethorn is the problem. There's a reason only rogues use it. Mention it around them and watch their panties get in a twist. Give it a small CD or a max amount of stacks.
I love how much HR's and CW's are flying under the radar right now simply because almost no good players play them and all these ez mode perma bile rogues are running around.
PvP balance is in the best state it's ever been, just tone down GWF's and bile a tad.
running around and never capping lool
which top tr did u kill 1v1
i know that build.......u just leave
when real tr comes on cap
so before calling out any tr u should proly beat one 1v1 with
full hp ,not coming to only daily him
Anyone with a clue knows bilethorn is the problem. There's a reason only rogues use it. Mention it around them and watch their panties get in a twist. Give it a small CD or a max amount of stacks.
I love how much HR's and CW's are flying under the radar right now simply because almost no good players play them and all these ez mode perma bile rogues are running around.
PvP balance is in the best state it's ever been, just tone down GWF's and bile a tad.
True, Bile is kinda overpowered with flurry, even lesser was about 10% dmg done boost I think.
Well first off, let me say that i do not know the TR class very well. I tried my hand on it back in beta, but stopped at around level 30-ish, and switched to another class. Also, i skimmed through this thread as it was very long and honestly i am feeling too lazy to read it all through.
With that said i do believe that the perma stealth TR needs soem reworking. My experience with Trs are, either they are either perma stealthed or all decked out with BiS gear/ enchants, and i lose or they arent and i win.
I have also double teamed a perma stealth TR afte the PvP patch with an HR and a CW( in different instances), and we got annihalted by th TR, 3 times in a row. We did not fall prey to the switch and bait yet hte TR was in stealth mode most of the fight. When i say most of the fight , I mean the TR only blinked into view and then went into stealth mode once again. Niether of us could get a shot off it. using aoes doesn't work as we can't see the TR, and all they do is just avoid the AoE effect on the ground and run around using ranged attacks.
The lantern wont work as any TR will clearly see it being used and stay at a distance and use ranged attacks. The lantern of revelation is a short lived/short distance stealth bypass item. Increase the distance to see a TR, but not the length of time) and it may become handy.
Now, from what i have read, players on both sides make good points.
so what do i think? TRs need Stealth, they do, it's been a part of their class since its creation in D&D (I think not a d&d fanatic). I do feel that Stealth should be reworked. You change stealth, then you must give other buffs to TRs to offset the nerf.
I'm not number monkey and don't know how feasable this may be but here is an idea/suggestion that can may or may not, help steer closer to a proper class balance for the TR.
1. A TR should not be able to stay in stealth mode and attack. As soon as they attack they should be dropped from stealth. Stealth can ideally be used as an escape, reposition or heal oneself. Thier movemnt speed should stay as it is now when stealthed.
2. Stealth should be on a time 15 - 25 second timer when being used.
3. Stealth should have a proper cool down period. honestly i don't have a clue on how much this should be. shouldnt be for too long or too short.
4. While in stealth mode, if/when a Tr should use a proper attack (weapon used attacks only), a TRs atttack should have a 25-35% damage increase, it should also give a defence debuff and slow the target for 3-5 seconds. Lets face it, nerfing stealth means increasing some dps in some manner and offer a chacne for the TR to escape or maneuver.
5. Anytime a TR is attacking a target from behind, the TR should have have 500 - 800 ArmPen bonus or something like a 300 ArmPen and power bonus, added to their attack. This can help make them viable again in dungoens, especially with bosses and help keep thier deadly damage numbers up in pvp. maybe even rework a feat that gives them this buff every 20 seconds, much like archery mastery ( or whatever it's called) works for HRs.
6. Have class feat ( those yellow icons that can be placed on the action bar) that gives and additional 1-2 second per rank to a TRs stealth timer.
Side note, i would also make HRs Ghost daily changed so that they also cannot attack while stealthed/hiding.
Honeslty we can't take stealth away from TRs. When you think of a rogue almost always does one associate stealth with them. It's part of thier class as much as healing is part of a cleric. Changing/Reworking/Nerfing something so important to a Tr also requires some manner of buffs to off set it.
Again this is only an opinon, an idea, a rough guide on how to try and go about properly balancing a TR. I'm not saying this is how it needs to be.
EDIT: Still best way to fix stealth, is to Nerf the DC!
I think thhat if stealth is nerfed to the point of that any attack will make you appear, then stealth shouldn't have a duration, but work like in other games where it lasts forever or until they attack or get attacked.
if we automatically lose stealth after a single attack you can say goodbye to any use TR's have in PVE. All we will be able to do is nuke a minion or maybe a boss mob if geared enough but as soon as we come out of stealth we are pretty much dead. we only have 2 dodge rolls and have pretty much no effective defense.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited March 2014
Yep, a PvE TR needs to be able to get back into stealth quickly to drop monster aggro, because they are basically made of tissue paper.
Even TRs who don't fight from stealth all of the time situationally need to be able to hide again quickly, plus it helps with damage and positioning. The base timer for stealth is only 5 seconds. There are ways of extending this timer, by feating for it, wearing the GG/PvP armor sets, and using specific powers at specific times.
My very effective Spider Queen rotation was basically Wicked Reminder, Stealth, Duelist Flurry until meter almost runs out, WR, Smoke Bomb (especially if Blademasters are charging), Shadow Strike, WR, Stealth, DF til meter running out, Lurker's Assault if I had my daily up, and weave DF rotations with WR until duration of both LA and regular stealth is depleted, WR, SB, SS, WB, etc. Switch to Shocking Execution for daily once boss health bar is getting down there. Some DF/WR rotations would have to be performed out of stealth, because SS might still be on cooldown. Preferably, this would be while Blademasters were controlled or paying attention to a GWF (who I'd be fighting opposite so we'd both have combat advantage all the time).
This is not a stealth-based build but a crit-based, party-friendly executioner ("combat TR", as people are starting to call them, I guess). Stealth is still integral because... it's the TR's class mechanic. Being in stealth when possible saves my bacon and makes my attacks stronger.
Put Stealth itself on a cooldown and you destroy much of the TR's ability to DPS as well as their primary form of protection. Already, your stealth is dependent on the meter being full to be able to enter it, and taking damage makes the meter fill more slowly. I don't really know how that isn't a cooldown. Shadow Strike does allow an instant refill, but there it is taking up space on your encounter bar, doing low damage. Time it so you don't break stealth and you can't use any actual damaging encounters because those do throw you out of stealth instantly. Attacking with at-wills doesn't instantly break stealth, but the meter does tick down, and even if you're attacking with feated Gloaming Cut to keep topping up that meter, it's going to run down eventually unless you do very specific things to make sure it doesn't.
I swear most people with ideas for "rebalancing" TRs know none of this, particularly the stuff about having to monitor a meter to really effectively use stealth at all.
yep my pve chain is the following:
- deft strike from a distance
- enter stealth while moving
- df
- df a second time
This if done perfectly gives me about .5 of a second to then hit Bait and Switch to refill the stealth meter. If i miss time something or am a second late my stealth is gone, or even worse if there is a random AOE attack and i have to move or roll out of the way there is no chance for a second flurry.
keeping stealth up for any length of time requires a lot of timing and being aware of just how much stealth is still remaining. is this the best build for a TR? I would guess its not even close but it works for me and if i was to lose stealth immediately i would be a sitting duck
0
tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
Has anyone thought about making the stealth meter last less time in PvP? Like 1/3 less time.
Doesn't matter anyway. The suggestions they mentioned in the live stream have nothing to do nothing with altering stealth duration, but will still help balance. He also mentions they don't want to take away the potential for rogues to be super stealthy. Also, they tried to implement a stealth nerf a while back making at-wills drain stealth and got so much backlash about it from the community that we haven't heard of anything to change perma-stealth again till now. Finally, due to the most recent updates, they are even willing to give TRs more stealth with +30% on gear. I seriously doubt any kind of change that will be implemented will directly + significantly affect stealth duration in any manner.
The current proposed changes are being looked at are decreased attack power the longer one attacks from stealth or the target being attacked by a sheathed rogue being able to see them.
Why touch Stealth when that isnt the issue? Look at sneak attack and nimble dodge/swift footwork. Problem atm is with more stamina regen from sharandar boon and artifact. Stealth has a counter in movement, stack movement and it will be useless, but if the one that has stealth has also the movement then it becomes too strong.
Has anyone thought about making the stealth meter last less time in PvP? Like 1/3 less time.
Right, but only if CW will lost 1/3 CC abilities, unstoppable becomes 1/3 shorter, GF's guard meter will be cut in 1/3, DC will have cooldowns on their healing abilities increased by 1/3, etc.
And it sill will be more harsh for TR.
Ratharel - stealthy backstabber from the Myth Drannor
0
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
I already suggested a bit earlier:
Why not let the rogue turn visible shortly to his victim and as a compensation has a better way to get back into stealth AND/OR make him more tankier?
This could lead to a good compromise imo.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
i kind of like the idea that the closer a rogue gets to am opponent's frontal view, the more visible they are. this might be within a 120 degree area... 40' range. it's somewhat like this already but i think the range is currently far too short... like 5-10' range. the rogue is already a dirty street fighter trying to be all stealthy attacking you behind your back and all... alternately, stealth could be broken for all encounters (except for the encounters that prolong stealth) and less for at-wills.
Comments
Was this post meant seriously? Who called me out about what? I am afraid you had not your facts right. for your chronology.
And for you this is the defintion what a troll is. I'd say your post fits well into that category.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
This is what you said "Perma-stealth was critizised since the game came out and for good reason:"
The build you listed is 2013, the game was in 2012. So you basically showed me nothing except that you think the game was created in 2013,and that you are missing about a year
you are still a troll, if you weren't you would have corrected your errors as was pointed out to you, if your errors have been corrected you would have at least been more credible,and further discussions could then have more efficiency.
Basing your core argument upon an error, is fallacious, at the very least admit your error and correct yourself for a more efficient way of promoting your cause.It would at the very least show you sincerity in you cause rather then creating an argument base on a fallacy.
edit: @sasoras12 please look when open beta came out. I am not arguing with you about that anymore.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
ok let me rephrase the game didn't come out on July 2013 on the exact date he listed that build, i didn;t want to specifically waste my time looking at specific months, but chronologically he is still wrong. and "came out" has different meaning for people, so semantics.
Like i said semantics. if you were in closed beta you would still have feed back and experience the game, official launch is what "came out" for you.
If you think i meant official launch then yes you are right i am wrong.
it is based on the our interpretation of "came out".
If that is not how semantics is used then i apologize for my lack of understanding.
as it says worlds best tr.had nothing to do with perma stealth.
i know for fact they do i killed a lot of trs ty to it
Any rogue who wants to not use perma-stealth needs to be able to hit hard in the limited amount of time they have before being CC'd into oblivion. Even with tenacity.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
So lets do some OT.
~top kek, wow~
So I guess you were playing frost what was defensive specialization focused mostly on slows, shields and he was really not a glass cannon => useless in PvE (Onyxia & Ragnaros was another story) But lets talk about TBC+, how many arcane & fire mages were in high bracket PvP? 0, zero, nula, null...Anyway WoW is really bad example of PvP game, yes, it was popular, but there was only 1-3 playable talent builds in PvP for single class. Everyone had same gems, enchants, items and talents. You could say it was fair, but it was pretty stereotypic. What I wanna say - you had no choice in gear.
/OT
TR: No, he is not. Its not about AoE dmg, HRs provides AoE dmg and they are still useless & unwanted in dungeons. Try LFG with TR and you will see how ''fine'' is he doing in PvE.
We don't need to change stealth mechanism, it works pretty well right now. Ask in PvP guilds here if they have trouble with permas. (They have not)
Do all classes have way how to counter them? Yes they do...But still is forum full of QQspams about TRs & stealths.
- Imho traps, hidden locks, etc in dungeons could be best way how to give a TR place in group.
- Remake feats - TR have worst made feats ingame.
~permastealth exploit~ I'm done.
I hope you are just a troll, if not, it would be really sad.
I love how much HR's and CW's are flying under the radar right now simply because almost no good players play them and all these ez mode perma bile rogues are running around.
PvP balance is in the best state it's ever been, just tone down GWF's and bile a tad.
which top tr did u kill 1v1
i know that build.......u just leave
when real tr comes on cap
so before calling out any tr u should proly beat one 1v1 with
full hp ,not coming to only daily him
True, Bile is kinda overpowered with flurry, even lesser was about 10% dmg done boost I think.
With that said i do believe that the perma stealth TR needs soem reworking. My experience with Trs are, either they are either perma stealthed or all decked out with BiS gear/ enchants, and i lose or they arent and i win.
I have also double teamed a perma stealth TR afte the PvP patch with an HR and a CW( in different instances), and we got annihalted by th TR, 3 times in a row. We did not fall prey to the switch and bait yet hte TR was in stealth mode most of the fight. When i say most of the fight , I mean the TR only blinked into view and then went into stealth mode once again. Niether of us could get a shot off it. using aoes doesn't work as we can't see the TR, and all they do is just avoid the AoE effect on the ground and run around using ranged attacks.
The lantern wont work as any TR will clearly see it being used and stay at a distance and use ranged attacks. The lantern of revelation is a short lived/short distance stealth bypass item. Increase the distance to see a TR, but not the length of time) and it may become handy.
Now, from what i have read, players on both sides make good points.
so what do i think? TRs need Stealth, they do, it's been a part of their class since its creation in D&D (I think not a d&d fanatic). I do feel that Stealth should be reworked. You change stealth, then you must give other buffs to TRs to offset the nerf.
I'm not number monkey and don't know how feasable this may be but here is an idea/suggestion that can may or may not, help steer closer to a proper class balance for the TR.
1. A TR should not be able to stay in stealth mode and attack. As soon as they attack they should be dropped from stealth. Stealth can ideally be used as an escape, reposition or heal oneself. Thier movemnt speed should stay as it is now when stealthed.
2. Stealth should be on a time 15 - 25 second timer when being used.
3. Stealth should have a proper cool down period. honestly i don't have a clue on how much this should be. shouldnt be for too long or too short.
4. While in stealth mode, if/when a Tr should use a proper attack (weapon used attacks only), a TRs atttack should have a 25-35% damage increase, it should also give a defence debuff and slow the target for 3-5 seconds. Lets face it, nerfing stealth means increasing some dps in some manner and offer a chacne for the TR to escape or maneuver.
5. Anytime a TR is attacking a target from behind, the TR should have have 500 - 800 ArmPen bonus or something like a 300 ArmPen and power bonus, added to their attack. This can help make them viable again in dungoens, especially with bosses and help keep thier deadly damage numbers up in pvp. maybe even rework a feat that gives them this buff every 20 seconds, much like archery mastery ( or whatever it's called) works for HRs.
6. Have class feat ( those yellow icons that can be placed on the action bar) that gives and additional 1-2 second per rank to a TRs stealth timer.
Side note, i would also make HRs Ghost daily changed so that they also cannot attack while stealthed/hiding.
Honeslty we can't take stealth away from TRs. When you think of a rogue almost always does one associate stealth with them. It's part of thier class as much as healing is part of a cleric. Changing/Reworking/Nerfing something so important to a Tr also requires some manner of buffs to off set it.
Again this is only an opinon, an idea, a rough guide on how to try and go about properly balancing a TR. I'm not saying this is how it needs to be.
EDIT: Still best way to fix stealth, is to Nerf the DC!
Another idea would have stealth work in a way the longer one moves in stealth the higher the chance they are seen.
Even TRs who don't fight from stealth all of the time situationally need to be able to hide again quickly, plus it helps with damage and positioning. The base timer for stealth is only 5 seconds. There are ways of extending this timer, by feating for it, wearing the GG/PvP armor sets, and using specific powers at specific times.
My very effective Spider Queen rotation was basically Wicked Reminder, Stealth, Duelist Flurry until meter almost runs out, WR, Smoke Bomb (especially if Blademasters are charging), Shadow Strike, WR, Stealth, DF til meter running out, Lurker's Assault if I had my daily up, and weave DF rotations with WR until duration of both LA and regular stealth is depleted, WR, SB, SS, WB, etc. Switch to Shocking Execution for daily once boss health bar is getting down there. Some DF/WR rotations would have to be performed out of stealth, because SS might still be on cooldown. Preferably, this would be while Blademasters were controlled or paying attention to a GWF (who I'd be fighting opposite so we'd both have combat advantage all the time).
This is not a stealth-based build but a crit-based, party-friendly executioner ("combat TR", as people are starting to call them, I guess). Stealth is still integral because... it's the TR's class mechanic. Being in stealth when possible saves my bacon and makes my attacks stronger.
Put Stealth itself on a cooldown and you destroy much of the TR's ability to DPS as well as their primary form of protection. Already, your stealth is dependent on the meter being full to be able to enter it, and taking damage makes the meter fill more slowly. I don't really know how that isn't a cooldown. Shadow Strike does allow an instant refill, but there it is taking up space on your encounter bar, doing low damage. Time it so you don't break stealth and you can't use any actual damaging encounters because those do throw you out of stealth instantly. Attacking with at-wills doesn't instantly break stealth, but the meter does tick down, and even if you're attacking with feated Gloaming Cut to keep topping up that meter, it's going to run down eventually unless you do very specific things to make sure it doesn't.
I swear most people with ideas for "rebalancing" TRs know none of this, particularly the stuff about having to monitor a meter to really effectively use stealth at all.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
- deft strike from a distance
- enter stealth while moving
- df
- df a second time
This if done perfectly gives me about .5 of a second to then hit Bait and Switch to refill the stealth meter. If i miss time something or am a second late my stealth is gone, or even worse if there is a random AOE attack and i have to move or roll out of the way there is no chance for a second flurry.
keeping stealth up for any length of time requires a lot of timing and being aware of just how much stealth is still remaining. is this the best build for a TR? I would guess its not even close but it works for me and if i was to lose stealth immediately i would be a sitting duck
So that is your super solution!?
Did you even read something in this thread?
Did you think about the actual effet of this sole change? Would just kill the class completely...
Oh no it will make the class in line with CWs in PVP.
Trust me, TRs love being in the spot they are at currently in PVP. Nobody wants to play CW at the highest levels in pvp.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?622121-Potential-Stealth-Mechanic-Changes&highlight=stealth+mechanic
The current proposed changes are being looked at are decreased attack power the longer one attacks from stealth or the target being attacked by a sheathed rogue being able to see them.
And it sill will be more harsh for TR.
Why not let the rogue turn visible shortly to his victim and as a compensation has a better way to get back into stealth AND/OR make him more tankier?
This could lead to a good compromise imo.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)