I'm fairly new to the game, but I just have to say the perma-stealth rogues are totally ridiculous.
colonelwing makes a great point- in all other MMOs, stealth is a temporary thing with penalties because it's extremely powerful to not be able to see or do anything to another player when he's right next to you.
Usually you can use stealth to get some initial suprise hits, but then you have to leave combat to use it again. Rogues in this game can basically just stay stealthed forever. It's insane and it's no fun at all to play against.
The underlined begin a point that should be seriously considered. Even if the stealth system as currently implemented could be balanced so TRs aren't either horribly OP or UP in PvP, it is still makes for less fun games, and probably less PvP players in the long term.
At least my TR still has 20 leadership and can invoke. That's pretty much all he's good for now. He was already the hardest character to play well. Now there's not much of a point in playing him.
The underlined begin a point that should be seriously considered. Even if the stealth system as currently implemented could be balanced so TRs aren't either horribly OP or UP in PvP, it is still makes for less fun games, and probably less PvP players in the long term.
Yes yes, lets make this games mechanics exactly like all the others, lets make it cliche to the point where people just call it action based WoW
If stealth is reduced to that point, you might as well play HR atleast it would have SOME CC. -I say some because following all the Q.Q that rangers got from "broken roots" which I thought were fine and made the game fun and the class unique are now reduced to bugged encounters that only serve as dps-
I dont understand why its so hard for people to understand that the game really wasnt that unbalanced -asids from gwfs- and that they were simply being out played because the talent depth in this game is incredibly poor
Yet again were catering to the weak,
And the TR class will continue to get nerfed -like its stats, df, and encounters- untill it really is just another "pray bot" like they made the DC class
I'm fairly new to the game, but I just have to say the perma-stealth rogues are totally ridiculous.
colonelwing makes a great point- in all other MMOs, stealth is a temporary thing with penalties because it's extremely powerful to not be able to see or do anything to another player when he's right next to you.
Usually you can use stealth to get some initial suprise hits, but then you have to leave combat to use it again. Rogues in this game can basically just stay stealthed forever. It's insane and it's no fun at all to play against.
The underlined begin a point that should be seriously considered. Even if the stealth system as currently implemented could be balanced so TRs aren't either horribly OP or UP in PvP, it is still makes for less fun games, and probably less PvP players in the long term.
No, Stealth doesn't last forever in this game because there is a meter we have to painstakingly maintain. And if we want to extend it, we have to slot non-DPS encounters to refill it. Like I said, if you guys want to remove permastealth from the game, remove Bait and Switch from the equation.
If we're talking about less fun, then you guys should try PVP as a TR without Stealth. When you have zero effective CC's to be able to contend with the meta with only effective mechanic of breaking CC (while people are asking your main CC-prevention to be nerfed), and almost everyone in PVP can CC you from range, I take it your notion of fun is to be able to render all your opponents immobile and helpless; and TR's are perhaps taking away your fun, because it takes so much effort to learn how to determine where TR's are placed while in Stealth in PVP.
So let's have the Stealth mechanic nerfed instead of truly addressing what needs to be addressed which is the tools that make permastealth possible, and make TR's even less wanted for PVE in the process as well. All because of some petty PVP Q.Q's that could have been fixed just by having Bait and Switch removed.
some people need to understand that TR are a PVP CLASS!!!!!
The perma stealth is a choice made in a build, as is the tank gwf...
People complaining is people who don't understand rogue mechs... If we get hit, we loose some of our stealth... Loosing 1% of our stealth = loosing perma stealth = death mostly...
Lets check this out..
Perma-stealth: low damage, no defense, stealth.....
GWF: high hp, high damage, high defense, perma stun lock....
CW: High damage, high cc, low defense, freaking 1hit kill a low defense with frozen blade..
GF: Defense, can hold a point by himself againts 2-3 player. perma stun-lock, shield..
HR: Root, range, damage, 6 dodge.. what else to saY?
DC: Defensinve, help team, zerg master... Can hold a point with shield and hallow = point victory....
How is TR good if you remove the stealth? They just loose everything they have.. Learn to play your class and learn to play againts other's you'll fast realise that playing a perma-stealth is the hardest pvp class in the game, the build is the most specific build and encounter/class feature/feat loadout...
Hardest class to play, master of pvp when mastered.. Thats a fact, and PW wont change this in fact, did you look at the new armor!? Just perfect, more stealth time and more stealth damage! You're welcome.
Founder back a week ago, already pissed by cryptic ''no roll back'' decision
Stealth does need reworking, but it needs to be very carefully done. TR already underwent a lot of nerfs which now make it a lot less viable without stealth. Without the survivability provided by stealth, it would be insignificant in PvP at this point.
Permastealth rogues are slightly OP, but nothing compared to a geared GWF. CWs get wrecked by permas, sure but hunters and fighters don't. Geared GWF can 1v2 anyone of equal gear/skill. Bad GWF is bad. Geared GWF becomes immortal. They scale so well with gear. And their class requires nearly no skill to play.
Permastealth TR should not be the focus of the first nerf bat swing.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Permastealth rogues are slightly OP, but nothing compared to a geared GWF. CWs get wrecked by permas, sure but hunters and fighters don't. Geared GWF can 1v2 anyone of equal gear/skill. Bad GWF is bad. Geared GWF becomes immortal. They scale so well with gear. And their class requires nearly no skill to play.
Permastealth TR should not be the focus of the first nerf bat swing.
Run along node with path of blades and throwing bile daggers in perma stealth. GG sentinel since they can no longer regen through the damage. Death by a million bileflavored cuts. It's why I'm now levelling a perma-TR having previously had little interest in that playstyle.
The only way nerfing stealth is going to work is if they buff our damage. TR's have been steadily nerfed with every major patch. With the latest patch it seems you will now need two builds, one for pve and one pvp. Before my Executioner build worked great for both. It is almost forcing TRs to go perma in pvp, which is not really fun for me to play. No idea why they haven't removed bait and switch. Could have done this 5 months ago and saved 80% of QQers. I am still bummed about our impact shot nerf but at least now the CWs can quit their moaning.
I love the combat in this game but pvp lately seems way less fun. Its much slower paced and gets tedious. Hopefully the upcoming changes will fix this.
The QQ is simple, most classes can do absolutely nothing vs a perma stealth build, and with healing suppression people cant even build high regen to counter the poke of daggers + bilethorn, so you just watch your HP dwindle away not being able to do a thing about it because you have absolutely no way to target a good TR, and depending on class you HAVE to target you don't have free aoe to just cast, in addition if you get below 1/2 hp you just die or if your say a CW you get poke poke poke laughing TR as he dances on your and your friends corpse. The problem with stealth is the fact there is absolutely no counter for it, you can stay so far back poking for not a small amount of damage and then easily come in with say ITC so you cant be cc and lash them or just daily them. honestly i wouldnt mind it as much if you could SEE the **** daggers and where they were comming from. Also because there are only 2 maps its not even real pvp, its a CTF mechanic that rewards people just dancing around and avoiding all fighting.
I think they are the same. Just as strong as before. May be more deadly against less experienced players. Hybrid builds ITC-stealth are more hard to counter when used correctly.
A permastealth rogue is not difficult to deal with. Off-node, in open ground, you won't get him, but you don't need to. Just run to a point or to your team. No need to fight off-node.
On a node, when you see the point is contested (aka, the TR is hiding somewhere on the node) they usually just hide on the opposite side. so you can teleport/ sprint there first. They will usually try to roll past you/ to the side to slip away unnoticed. Don't know about other classes. For GWFs, once you reveal them, it's important to think ahead of them. Example: perma hiding on a node. I sprint to the other side of the node, he's there 90% of the times. If he's not there, this could mean he rolled past me, so quick turn and search the node. He will run out of rolls soon and my bravery+sprint will find him. Once i spot him, he mark him or try to land some at-will to proc deep gash and damage his stealth. Then, he will dodge roll again. Here i just guess where he will roll (experience in combat allows you to do so) and prepare my roar- frontline on that point, let him roll and immediately stun- prone him. Sprint (or threat rush) to him, takedown, IBS.
Hybrids are harder to counter when skilled, since you have a very small window to hit them, usually once ITC runs out and they dodge roll, that small second when the roll animation ends. If you miss them and they manage to hide and evade, you can hear the tic-tac of the clock marking their ITC cooldown, and you better find them fast. Also, avoid hitting clones, since, if i got it right, they build AP for the TR. And once SE is up...21k damage on tank, and more on other classes-builds. Usually, if you've been softened enough, it's gg.
In all honesty, it's not the "perma" part that's the problem but rather the near-invulnerability despite you've actually succeeded in hunting the TR down and peeled its stealth off. Unless they are using both Bait&Switch and ShadowStrike (in which case lack of utility/DPS encounters usually make them very weak in damage), most perma/semi-perma builds have a very delicate rotation in which damage received from stealth may botch their rotation times... and as a result, they are briefly visible.
The problem is, ITC recharges too fast. With high int/recharge, the default 18secs recharge can be brought down to under 15secs. Against a perma you swing and lunge and fire of AoEs and move around like mad to take a few ticks at the stealth, and finally the TR becomes visible... and yet, he's in ITC. Doesn't get CC'd, and that extra 5 seconds most likely buys him enough time to re-enter stealth.
...so, in order to really hurt the TR, you need find him within the next 15 seconds. Mind you, the GG PvP set with 25% increased stealth duration + Feats allow stealth to last for around 10 seconds. If the Profound set is finally acquired, the stealth will last even longer.
...
ITC needs at least 25secs of recharge time, with maybe a +1 second or +2 second duration increase. It's just too damned good for such a shot recharge duration.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It'll be fun learning to do it! I used to play semi-perma on my previous TR, but I never had the stat rolls for full troll mode.
Who we trying to kid here. :rolleyes: Perma's easy. Don't let others try to fool you.
Considering the amount of trouble other visible classes go through in trying to survive against a perma, no matter what the whiney TR bunch tells you, perma's simply easy-mode.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Who we trying to kid here. :rolleyes: Perma's easy. Don't let others try to fool you.
Considering the amount of trouble other visible classes go through in trying to survive against a perma, no matter what the whiney TR bunch tells you, perma's simply easy-mode.
Sure, against pugs and new players(who usually don't yet have a clue about class mechanics etc.) it's easy. But against, any skilled, dedicated veteran pvp-player who has been around more than 2 months, it isn't that easy at all. The rotation must be perfect, and for example against a gwf who is equal in skill and gear compared to you, only 1 mistake in rotation could lead to death, atleast this was the situation before tenacity. Don't know now since I haven't yet played much since the tenacity implement, I don't know if decent gwfs can burst you down in 1-2 rotations.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Sure, against pugs and new players(who usually don't yet have a clue about class mechanics etc.) it's easy. But against, any skilled, dedicated veteran pvp-player who has been around more than 2 months, it isn't that easy at all. The rotation must be perfect, and for example against a gwf who is equal in skill and gear compared to you, only 1 mistake in rotation could lead to death, atleast this was the situation before tenacity. Don't know now since I haven't yet played much since the tenacity implement, I don't know if decent gwfs can burst you down in 1-2 rotations.
Playing an IV sent against several permas in the new patch, I will say this. IF the TR is good enough not to mess up in the first minute of a fight then they will win simply because Sents(and any other class) can no longer regen through bile/knife/pob damage and with the changes to impact shot, there is no longer the window after an impact shot to attack them.
Wheras before it was a nearly endless fight, now it's a case of being conservative with stealth since you no longer need to burst the GWF down inbetween unstoppable.
In all honesty, it's not the "perma" part that's the problem but rather the near-invulnerability despite you've actually succeeded in hunting the TR down and peeled its stealth off. Unless they are using both Bait&Switch and ShadowStrike (in which case lack of utility/DPS encounters usually make them very weak in damage), most perma/semi-perma builds have a very delicate rotation in which damage received from stealth may botch their rotation times... and as a result, they are briefly visible.
The problem is, ITC recharges too fast. With high int/recharge, the default 18secs recharge can be brought down to under 15secs. Against a perma you swing and lunge and fire of AoEs and move around like mad to take a few ticks at the stealth, and finally the TR becomes visible... and yet, he's in ITC. Doesn't get CC'd, and that extra 5 seconds most likely buys him enough time to re-enter stealth.
...so, in order to really hurt the TR, you need find him within the next 15 seconds. Mind you, the GG PvP set with 25% increased stealth duration + Feats allow stealth to last for around 10 seconds. If the Profound set is finally acquired, the stealth will last even longer.
...
ITC needs at least 25secs of recharge time, with maybe a +1 second or +2 second duration increase. It's just too damned good for such a shot recharge duration.
no way. Increase the timer for shadow strike before you increase it for ITC. Also 10 sec stealth seems really high. what feats are you figuring in that?
Interesting how everyone only includes how to fight them as a gwf, what about a CW? CC is 1/2 as effective now with tenacity so you can no longer drop a rotation on them, they can ITC and just ignore your CC, their skills fire off faster than yours so they can stop your spells from landing, you cant target them while they tag you with pbiles shredding your hp. I agree i can kill all but the best TR reliably with my GWF, the smart ones just sit and ping me to death knowing i cant regen what they can damage now.
Interesting how everyone only includes how to fight them as a gwf, what about a CW? CC is 1/2 as effective now with tenacity so you can no longer drop a rotation on them, they can ITC and just ignore your CC, their skills fire off faster than yours so they can stop your spells from landing, you cant target them while they tag you with pbiles shredding your hp. I agree i can kill all but the best TR reliably with my GWF, the smart ones just sit and ping me to death knowing i cant regen what they can damage now.
Everyone kinda acknowledges that unless you're Sobek or someone of similar ability, CW vs a TR of moderately similar ability, the TR is gonna win. You can hinder them if you totally switch your powers around to deal with it, i.e. Icy Terrain, Steal Time, etc...
RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Everyone kinda acknowledges that unless you're Sobek or someone of similar ability, CW vs a TR of moderately similar ability, the TR is gonna win. You can hinder them if you totally switch your powers around to deal with it, i.e. Icy Terrain, Steal Time, etc...
You could win at least 50% or so against similar gear TRs as a CW (before Tenacity), especially if you could DoT them and mess their stealth, then Oppressive/Ice Knife them at the right time (when in Icy Rays, after ITC fade). Repel also very good if timed properly.
Nowadays however, you will always be under HD, but TR not. Also SE pretty much destroys anything
So... dunno what to say. Might still be possible, but I have serious doubts.
Anyway, TR was a way easier matchup for CW than HR ot GWF.
PS: tested IT and ST against some nice TRs that were willing to duel me, they didn't work, didn't bother the TR.
Depends on what the rogues running, their skill at staying stealthed, and or ITC
The dmg they are putting out, and how good you are at forcing their hand at blowing cooldowns. There are some highly skilled rogues out there, that wizzies will have some legit issues killing. if they get a wiz under 70% health, shocking will kill you if it crits. If under 50% health, it will kill you in most cases, without a crit.
Step 1: make sure music and other "distraction sounds" are off. You only want to hear combat sounds
Step 2: Actually listen during PvP
Step 3: When a rogue attacks from stealth (melee or thrown, doesn't matter) you can actually hear the sound and its DIRECTION. It will work with speakers, but its better with headphones/headset.
Step 4: move DIRECTLY towards the sound spamming an at-will or encounter power that deals damage or CCs.
You will never lose to a perma-stealth rogue again, ever.
Step 1: make sure music and other "distraction sounds" are off. You only want to hear combat sounds
Step 2: Actually listen during PvP
Step 3: When a rogue attacks from stealth (melee or thrown, doesn't matter) you can actually hear the sound and its DIRECTION. It will work with speakers, but its better with headphones/headset.
Step 4: move DIRECTLY towards the sound spamming an at-will or encounter power that deals damage or CCs.
You will never lose to a perma-stealth rogue again, ever.
What if you're a CW and all of your powers for pvp require a target as well as your at wills, with the exception of a daily? (and maybe shard, but you can't expect to summon a shard and hit him with it when he's in stealth although that would be hilarious if you did)
Even if you know exactly where he is you still can't hit him.
These people really need to play a TR and perhaps they'l learn the weaknesses and shut up.
Well since I have my 2 slots filled that's not going to happen. Can you answer my question in the post above you as to if there is any weakness at all against a CW?
What if you're a CW and all of your powers for pvp require a target as well as your at wills, with the exception of a daily? (and maybe shard, but you can't expect to summon a shard and hit him with it when he's in stealth although that would be hilarious if you did)
Even if you know exactly where he is you still can't hit him.
You need to read step 4 again. I'll even retype it:
"move DIRECTLY towards the sound spamming an at-will or encounter power that deals damage or CCs."
As soon as you get close enough, you get to SEE a stealthed character. Yeah, I know, you never tried, so you didn't know this.
SURPRISE! You can see stealthed characters if you are IN THEIR SHORTS. To get "in their shorts", you go TOWARDS them by Sound.
Its really freaking simple.
On a CW, just move towards the sound spamming a CC power or even Magic Missile, it doesn't matter. As soon as you get close enough, the game will show them to you and you will auto-target them, and the attack will launch.
Comments
The underlined begin a point that should be seriously considered. Even if the stealth system as currently implemented could be balanced so TRs aren't either horribly OP or UP in PvP, it is still makes for less fun games, and probably less PvP players in the long term.
Yes yes, lets make this games mechanics exactly like all the others, lets make it cliche to the point where people just call it action based WoW
If stealth is reduced to that point, you might as well play HR atleast it would have SOME CC. -I say some because following all the Q.Q that rangers got from "broken roots" which I thought were fine and made the game fun and the class unique are now reduced to bugged encounters that only serve as dps-
I dont understand why its so hard for people to understand that the game really wasnt that unbalanced -asids from gwfs- and that they were simply being out played because the talent depth in this game is incredibly poor
Yet again were catering to the weak,
And the TR class will continue to get nerfed -like its stats, df, and encounters- untill it really is just another "pray bot" like they made the DC class
No, Stealth doesn't last forever in this game because there is a meter we have to painstakingly maintain. And if we want to extend it, we have to slot non-DPS encounters to refill it. Like I said, if you guys want to remove permastealth from the game, remove Bait and Switch from the equation.
If we're talking about less fun, then you guys should try PVP as a TR without Stealth. When you have zero effective CC's to be able to contend with the meta with only effective mechanic of breaking CC (while people are asking your main CC-prevention to be nerfed), and almost everyone in PVP can CC you from range, I take it your notion of fun is to be able to render all your opponents immobile and helpless; and TR's are perhaps taking away your fun, because it takes so much effort to learn how to determine where TR's are placed while in Stealth in PVP.
So let's have the Stealth mechanic nerfed instead of truly addressing what needs to be addressed which is the tools that make permastealth possible, and make TR's even less wanted for PVE in the process as well. All because of some petty PVP Q.Q's that could have been fixed just by having Bait and Switch removed.
The perma stealth is a choice made in a build, as is the tank gwf...
People complaining is people who don't understand rogue mechs... If we get hit, we loose some of our stealth... Loosing 1% of our stealth = loosing perma stealth = death mostly...
Lets check this out..
Perma-stealth: low damage, no defense, stealth.....
GWF: high hp, high damage, high defense, perma stun lock....
CW: High damage, high cc, low defense, freaking 1hit kill a low defense with frozen blade..
GF: Defense, can hold a point by himself againts 2-3 player. perma stun-lock, shield..
HR: Root, range, damage, 6 dodge.. what else to saY?
DC: Defensinve, help team, zerg master... Can hold a point with shield and hallow = point victory....
How is TR good if you remove the stealth? They just loose everything they have.. Learn to play your class and learn to play againts other's you'll fast realise that playing a perma-stealth is the hardest pvp class in the game, the build is the most specific build and encounter/class feature/feat loadout...
Hardest class to play, master of pvp when mastered.. Thats a fact, and PW wont change this in fact, did you look at the new armor!? Just perfect, more stealth time and more stealth damage! You're welcome.
Permastealth TR should not be the focus of the first nerf bat swing.
Run along node with path of blades and throwing bile daggers in perma stealth. GG sentinel since they can no longer regen through the damage. Death by a million bileflavored cuts. It's why I'm now levelling a perma-TR having previously had little interest in that playstyle.
I'm glad you're making a perma stealth TR. You'll realize how hard they are to play effectively, and how ridiculous the criers sound.
I love the combat in this game but pvp lately seems way less fun. Its much slower paced and gets tedious. Hopefully the upcoming changes will fix this.
A permastealth rogue is not difficult to deal with. Off-node, in open ground, you won't get him, but you don't need to. Just run to a point or to your team. No need to fight off-node.
On a node, when you see the point is contested (aka, the TR is hiding somewhere on the node) they usually just hide on the opposite side. so you can teleport/ sprint there first. They will usually try to roll past you/ to the side to slip away unnoticed. Don't know about other classes. For GWFs, once you reveal them, it's important to think ahead of them. Example: perma hiding on a node. I sprint to the other side of the node, he's there 90% of the times. If he's not there, this could mean he rolled past me, so quick turn and search the node. He will run out of rolls soon and my bravery+sprint will find him. Once i spot him, he mark him or try to land some at-will to proc deep gash and damage his stealth. Then, he will dodge roll again. Here i just guess where he will roll (experience in combat allows you to do so) and prepare my roar- frontline on that point, let him roll and immediately stun- prone him. Sprint (or threat rush) to him, takedown, IBS.
Hybrids are harder to counter when skilled, since you have a very small window to hit them, usually once ITC runs out and they dodge roll, that small second when the roll animation ends. If you miss them and they manage to hide and evade, you can hear the tic-tac of the clock marking their ITC cooldown, and you better find them fast. Also, avoid hitting clones, since, if i got it right, they build AP for the TR. And once SE is up...21k damage on tank, and more on other classes-builds. Usually, if you've been softened enough, it's gg.
The problem is, ITC recharges too fast. With high int/recharge, the default 18secs recharge can be brought down to under 15secs. Against a perma you swing and lunge and fire of AoEs and move around like mad to take a few ticks at the stealth, and finally the TR becomes visible... and yet, he's in ITC. Doesn't get CC'd, and that extra 5 seconds most likely buys him enough time to re-enter stealth.
...so, in order to really hurt the TR, you need find him within the next 15 seconds. Mind you, the GG PvP set with 25% increased stealth duration + Feats allow stealth to last for around 10 seconds. If the Profound set is finally acquired, the stealth will last even longer.
...
ITC needs at least 25secs of recharge time, with maybe a +1 second or +2 second duration increase. It's just too damned good for such a shot recharge duration.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
It'll be fun learning to do it! I used to play semi-perma on my previous TR, but I never had the stat rolls for full troll mode.
Who we trying to kid here. :rolleyes: Perma's easy. Don't let others try to fool you.
Considering the amount of trouble other visible classes go through in trying to survive against a perma, no matter what the whiney TR bunch tells you, perma's simply easy-mode.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Sure, against pugs and new players(who usually don't yet have a clue about class mechanics etc.) it's easy. But against, any skilled, dedicated veteran pvp-player who has been around more than 2 months, it isn't that easy at all. The rotation must be perfect, and for example against a gwf who is equal in skill and gear compared to you, only 1 mistake in rotation could lead to death, atleast this was the situation before tenacity. Don't know now since I haven't yet played much since the tenacity implement, I don't know if decent gwfs can burst you down in 1-2 rotations.
Playing an IV sent against several permas in the new patch, I will say this. IF the TR is good enough not to mess up in the first minute of a fight then they will win simply because Sents(and any other class) can no longer regen through bile/knife/pob damage and with the changes to impact shot, there is no longer the window after an impact shot to attack them.
Wheras before it was a nearly endless fight, now it's a case of being conservative with stealth since you no longer need to burst the GWF down inbetween unstoppable.
no way. Increase the timer for shadow strike before you increase it for ITC. Also 10 sec stealth seems really high. what feats are you figuring in that?
They may be invisible, but they aren't silent...
Everyone kinda acknowledges that unless you're Sobek or someone of similar ability, CW vs a TR of moderately similar ability, the TR is gonna win. You can hinder them if you totally switch your powers around to deal with it, i.e. Icy Terrain, Steal Time, etc...
You could win at least 50% or so against similar gear TRs as a CW (before Tenacity), especially if you could DoT them and mess their stealth, then Oppressive/Ice Knife them at the right time (when in Icy Rays, after ITC fade). Repel also very good if timed properly.
Nowadays however, you will always be under HD, but TR not. Also SE pretty much destroys anything
So... dunno what to say. Might still be possible, but I have serious doubts.
Anyway, TR was a way easier matchup for CW than HR ot GWF.
PS: tested IT and ST against some nice TRs that were willing to duel me, they didn't work, didn't bother the TR.
Care to clue us in?
The dmg they are putting out, and how good you are at forcing their hand at blowing cooldowns. There are some highly skilled rogues out there, that wizzies will have some legit issues killing. if they get a wiz under 70% health, shocking will kill you if it crits. If under 50% health, it will kill you in most cases, without a crit.
For starters: you can hear the Duelist Flurry windup as the TR is doing it if your sound is up enough.
Step 1: make sure music and other "distraction sounds" are off. You only want to hear combat sounds
Step 2: Actually listen during PvP
Step 3: When a rogue attacks from stealth (melee or thrown, doesn't matter) you can actually hear the sound and its DIRECTION. It will work with speakers, but its better with headphones/headset.
Step 4: move DIRECTLY towards the sound spamming an at-will or encounter power that deals damage or CCs.
You will never lose to a perma-stealth rogue again, ever.
What if you're a CW and all of your powers for pvp require a target as well as your at wills, with the exception of a daily? (and maybe shard, but you can't expect to summon a shard and hit him with it when he's in stealth although that would be hilarious if you did)
Even if you know exactly where he is you still can't hit him.
Well since I have my 2 slots filled that's not going to happen. Can you answer my question in the post above you as to if there is any weakness at all against a CW?
You need to read step 4 again. I'll even retype it:
"move DIRECTLY towards the sound spamming an at-will or encounter power that deals damage or CCs."
As soon as you get close enough, you get to SEE a stealthed character. Yeah, I know, you never tried, so you didn't know this.
SURPRISE! You can see stealthed characters if you are IN THEIR SHORTS. To get "in their shorts", you go TOWARDS them by Sound.
Its really freaking simple.
On a CW, just move towards the sound spamming a CC power or even Magic Missile, it doesn't matter. As soon as you get close enough, the game will show them to you and you will auto-target them, and the attack will launch.