really ? lol.
GS is the sum of ur deffensive and offensive stats , so high Gs mmeans high stats and high stats give you big advantage against a low GS .
and for the tenacity its for/against all the classes , not just TR . 10% less damage from Lashing blade is not a big deal , don't forget that you will recive 10% less damage too !
Oh so a Control Wizard statting out in nothing but deflect and armor penetration and acheiving like 16k gearscore somehow (when its known most of control wizards abilities dont even benefit from armor penetration and they receive the least amoutn of deflect return from deflect) and just firing magic missles all day without actually using thier spells means they are good?
Gearscore is only a moderate contribution, the rest is based on skill and how one uses thier abilties. Gearscore here means much less than gearscore did in WoW for example. because everything is directly more reactive.
lower gearscore people can very much defeat higher gearscore people (though this becomes less true the farther the gap simply because of the vast difference in numbers)
Or a rogue that pours all thier gearscore into power and recovery. Getting around 13k somehow. Wont help them much. (Unless they have a specific playstyle to this, which is completely different)
For instance a 9k gearscore person can indeed beat a 14k gearscore person. No doubt, and on a regular basis if they are good.
GS is the sum of defenseiv and offensive stats, but thats all that is. There are father more important attributes than simply gearscore, where its playstyle and the actual skill of the player thats important.
In addition, gearscore is not the same throughout all classes. All the fighters for instance can acheive very high gearscore alot easier than other classes, but their actual levels of damage and such are actually at a similar level to gearscores alot lower than they actually are.
This is why the upcoming matchmaking system is not using gearscore as a means to match people.
ps: I am aware those gearscore numbers for the stat allocations I gave is not actually acheivable, its an example to give a point.
Edit: Also its not just the tenacity itself I dont like, its the healing depression as well.
Tenacity should be known as the "wookie defense". (ala Southpark) Its the extra stat shoved into the game to more confuse the whole mishmash that is pvp. Sure, take the time to understand your CDs, CCs, DPS staples, etc.. However instead of fine tuning the classes to even them out so every match isn't 5 on 1 GWF funness, now we add another stat which will make them even harder to kill.
Oh so a Control Wizard statting out in nothing but deflect and armor penetration and acheiving like 16k gearscore somehow (when its known most of control wizards abilities dont even benefit from armor penetration and they receive the least amoutn of deflect return from deflect) and just firing magic missles all day without actually using thier spells means they are good?
lol that exemple !
Nice talking but ... , just a quick exemple :
cw1 cw2 ;
Same feat , Same gear , Same enchants but High lvl ones on cw 2 , hum do same rotation of skills and tell me wich one will do more damage. <- this is how the comparison should work ! and even in your exemple , if the opponent is a 10k/11k GS your cw will win with his magic missiles
I just received an ice knife from another cw that hit for 3k (not deflected) , conclusion ? i let you realize it !
Now if we compare classes , we won't make it , classes mecanisms are different ;
This post is about tenacity and its only in pvp i think , so no need to bring cw here who do massive damage only in pve
PS : knowldge in WoW or Whatever means nothing.
have a nice day all !
Tenacity is not supposed to have from the start. First of all I'm playing as a tr . lashing blade had been nerf like 30-40% and now tenacity ? Wow this is just kinda dumb because of this what else is tr good for? Tr was actually a very fun class to play with and the only class that can bring crit out the most..and now this stupid things walk in than what else is tr good for. Tenacity is a big massive nerfing thing to all PvP lovers. Including me. Devs just took pitiful to those whinner that got own easily in PvP. They complain a lot because the truth is they did not realise they are just a mere 10-12k GS fighting a 15-17k GS player . and when they got pawn they complain this and that. Ya this may not even hurt a little to pve player but hurt PvP player a lot. And now a lot already going for perma tr in PvP. I am 100% sure there are gonna be a lot more rubbish whinner that will be crying for nerf again. And tr will be a dead class. Tenacity should not have be brought into PvP anyway. Stop taking pity on those whinner.
Is the cup half-full or half-empty?
If LB has been nerfed down 30~40% in damage, then so is any other attack landing on you. With Tenacity you have roughly 30~40% more survivability -- but since we TRs already don't have much complaints in surviving the current amount of damage, that means we have a 30~40% worth of stats/enchantments/buildstuff we may push towards more offense.
I'll reserve my opinion until I extensively experience the effects of Tenacity on live. As it is, I'm just not into doomsayers and end-of-days preachers
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Nice talking but ... , just a quick exemple :
cw1 cw2 ;
Same feat , Same gear , Same enchants but High lvl ones on cw 2 , hum do same rotation of skills and tell me wich one will do more damage. <- this is how the comparison should work ! and even in your exemple , if the opponent is a 10k/11k GS your cw will win with his magic missiles
I just received an ice knife from another cw that hit for 3k (not deflected) , conclusion ? i let you realize it !
Now if we compare classes , we won't make it , classes mecanisms are different ;
This post is about tenacity and its only in pvp i think , so no need to bring cw here who do massive damage only in pve
PS : knowldge in WoW or Whatever means nothing.
have a nice day all !
Pvp does not work so linear my friend. Even if CW have the same rotation and the same feats. If they are fighting each other and realize this, at least one of them or both of them will change that rotation to screw with the other. If one of them doesnt, the other will one. Negating the conversation that its about gearscore.
Yes if the control wizard with that gearscore sits there using only magic missles the whole time, will win. If the opponent is brain dead and standing still. lol.
A control wizard will not win any fight with anyone actively being assaulted with just magic missles.
And WoW knowledge wasnt given or used. It was simply a comparison of the "gearscore" that both use and the misconception one would have coming from one game to the other with the same thing. Where that is indeed relevant. HP is the same through all games. HP stands for the amount of health one has. The same thing here with gearscore in the two games.
A fight in pvp is not as linear as you gave in the example. Even if the 2nd control wizard has higher enchants. The first control wizard can still win if he knows his rotation is similar to his and picks up on it.
Also the 3k ice knife. lol
Thats a case of really weak weapon the control wizard that casts it has.
Im not saying a person with 5k gearscore can beat a person with 13k gearscore. As I mentioned earlier, with gaps that wide, it will be highly unlikely due to the sheer difference in numbers. But for something like 9k gearscore fighting someone at 13-14k gearscore. Its very much possible for the former to win.
In addition I'd like to remind everyone that pvp is more than just who will win in a one on one fight.
Overall the tenacity feels really unneeded and doesnt really actually help anything at all and actually complicates things further. Where all thats really needed from the get go is proper matchmaking and be nice for some new maps.
If LB has been nerfed down 30~40% in damage, then so is any other attack landing on you. With Tenacity you have roughly 30~40% more survivability -- but since we TRs already don't have much complaints in surviving the current amount of damage, that means we have a 30~40% worth of stats/enchantments/buildstuff we may push towards more offense.
I'll reserve my opinion until I extensively experience the effects of Tenacity on live. As it is, I'm just not into doomsayers and end-of-days preachers
lol bro, lashing blade has been nerf 4 month ago not recently, dont get me wrong here
Its not a stupid idea to have tenacity in pvp bro... if they did this from the start the TR wouldn't have been nerfed 100 times effecting both PVP and PVE.
Because lets face it... Only reason TR has been nerfed so much is because of cryers and whiners in PVP.
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andferne3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 104Bounty Hunter
edited February 2014
Tenacity servers one purpose. To try and make people utilize two different sets of armors, one for PvE, and one for PvP.
Why? Well to be simply put, time/money sink.
Its not a stupid idea to have tenacity in pvp bro... if they did this from the start the TR wouldn't have been nerfed 100 times effecting both PVP and PVE.
Because lets face it... Only reason TR has been nerfed so much is because of cryers and whiners in PVP.
The thing though is TR's still have remained one of the strongest offensive classes after all those nerfs. so thats moot point.
Tenacity doesnt serve anyone anything substantial but a waste of time for everyone. It was unneeded, what was needed was proper matchmaking.
The thing though is TR's still have remained one of the strongest offensive classes after all those nerfs. so thats moot point.
Tenacity doesnt serve anyone anything substantial but a waste of time for everyone. It was unneeded, what was needed was proper matchmaking.
Yep, I agree proper matchmaking would have solved the issue too. However I still believe the Devs were giving candies to babies... PVP has no reward system at this moment in time so to go off the assumptions that TR is OP because of people who cry in pvp was wrong.
Myself included, regardless of how highly skilled or high gear score a TR is its 10 times harder to get into groups for anything nowadays.
really ? lol.
GS is the sum of ur deffensive and offensive stats , so high Gs mmeans high stats and high stats give you big advantage against a low GS .
and for the tenacity its for/against all the classes , not just TR . 10% less damage from Lashing blade is not a big deal , don't forget that you will recive 10% less damage too !
I just saw a 16k GS perfects/legendary artifact TR die to a CW and HR within 5 sec. And those 2 have roughly 13k gs and normal/greater enchant.
So yeah GS really doesn't matter in the real word, u can argue there are case that it makes a difference, but skill has a much bigger effect for sure
I just saw a 16k GS perfects/legendary artifact TR die to a CW and HR within 5 sec. And those 2 have roughly 13k gs and normal/greater enchant.
So yeah GS really doesn't matter in the real word, u can argue there are case that it makes a difference, but skill has a much bigger effect for sure
No amount of skill is going to make a go-kart win a Formula-1 under normal circumstances.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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skatooshMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited February 2014
we r useless... cw with damage pure settings can do easily 19million of damage in a run dont need control too.. only dps so no there r 2 classes in this game CW and GWF damage damage damage we r nothing in pve in pvp we have a few chances , oviusly i talk about same skill and same equip.
I just took down Valindra with my guild the other day and did not feel worthless at all.
Deft strike, lurkers assault, sneak attack and Skillful infiltrator, combined with lashing blade and impossible to catch made me the fastest darn medic and casket killer you will see.
Click on the link in my sig and check out how I configure my setup for that run.
Keeping my teamates from dying and having to wipe and being able to take out 1 or 2 more caskets every time Valindra trys to bring in adds is extremely useful.
While not doing the above I was helping our GWF with DPS
It's a pity they don't have numbers and stats for just how much you, as a TR, have contributed to the team in terms of extra damage by debuffing defenses and maintaining it constantly, from anywhere between -45% ~ -86% defense. With a dedicated defense debuff setting, essentially around 15~20% of all the damage done by ALL of the other players can be attributed to the TR.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I just hope they stop nerfing our class after that release of the new stat and start actually thinking up something to make us as competitive as CWs and GWFs in overall dps table.
In the state where my class have been abandoned as DPS class now, makes me feel that I am going to spamm "TR 17k lfg for any t2 or vt 2/2" forever.
brotherhopeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited February 2014
OK so whats the point in running dungeons for pvpers if the gear that drops does not have tensity? i refuse to have 2 sets of gear unless a system is implemented to switch back and forth with the push of a button and my inventory is not clogged up....The changes do not bother me what bothers me is the fact there is no reason for pvper to run dungeons any more to get the 2.5 sets.
*Edit*
I have spent to much on this game to be shafted like this and I liked running the dungeons. Some one please set me straight or I think this might just end for me.... And I really really enjoy this game...
*Edit*
WOW I just watched the new PVP video and I'm very disappointed you are forcing us to have 2 sets of gear for PVP and PVE. Cryptic team you are making a huge mistake with this patch. I get the tensity and the reduce of CC and the depressions. But you are forcing pvp players to run with 2 sets if they want to do dungeons?!?!?!?!?!?!!. I love this game but this is going to force me to stop playing and paying.......
*Edit*
Switching enchantment from gear to gear ?????? Really??? or I have to refine another Set??? and if I want to get to where I am now, I'm going to have to shell out more cash then I already have, witch I don't mind doing for a game I enjoy playing, hell no I spent to much time and money getting to where I am to get rammed like this with no lube.
Out of curiousity, will there be an enchantment which provides Tenacity stats?
Not yet, that's the last thing we need, having to refine another set of enchants to high rank, after many of us spent MONTHS of farming and many millions of AD for what we have now.
OK so whats the point in running dungeons for pvpers if the gear that drops does not have tensity? i refuse to have 2 sets of gear unless a system is implemented to switch back and forth with the push of a button and my inventory is not clogged up....The changes do not bother me what bothers me is the fact there is no reason for pvper to run dungeons any more to get the 2.5 sets.
*Edit*
I have spent to much on this game to be shafted like this and I liked running the dungeons. Some one please set me straight or I think this might just end for me.... And I really really enjoy this game...
*Edit*
WOW I just watched the new PVP video and I'm very disappointed you are forcing us to have 2 sets of gear for PVP and PVE. Cryptic team you are making a huge mistake with this patch. I get the tensity and the reduce of CC and the depressions. But you are forcing pvp players to run with 2 sets if they want to do dungeons?!?!?!?!?!?!!. I love this game but this is going to force me to stop playing and paying.......
*Edit*
Switching enchantment from gear to gear ?????? Really??? or I have to refine another Set??? and if I want to get to where I am now, I'm going to have to shell out more cash then I already have, witch I don't mind doing for a game I enjoy playing, hell no I spent to much time and money getting to where I am to get rammed like this with no lube.
Cryptic si not forcing you to do anything.
You can go pvp with your pve gear. It's just up to you.
Also, pvp and pve require different stats. I already built two sets for this simple reason. Pvp and pve have different focuses. Going pvp with pve gear si really wrong even now. You are weak with pve build in pvp, and you weaken your team. Be patient and work on your sets. Focus on the mode you like more.
The good thing of this update is that hopefully We'll have no more newbies Going Pvp in full pve Builds and whining If they suck
Pve will still play a big part. You need pve for all enchants, refining, upgrades, and artifacts. They Are a big part of your gear.
I do not understand why all this change in balance classes for pvp, while for months we know the main causes of leaves and problems in this game
Rather than changing aspects on the CW or DC, why not fix the real problems that are rogues perma stealth / immune and dps warriors? ... . And you should be aware of this, as the returns are many since the game's release!
The quality of pvp in this game could be set in a few hours, while you prefer change everything else and it takes months of unnecessary waiting. You're not on the right track at Cryptic gentlemen, you may ultimately make matters worse.
Cryptic si not forcing you to do anything.
You can go pvp with your pve gear. It's just up to you.
Also, pvp and pve require different stats. I already built two sets for this simple reason. Pvp and pve have different focuses. Going pvp with pve gear si really wrong even now. You are weak with pve build in pvp, and you weaken your team. Be patient and work on your sets. Focus on the mode you like more.
The good thing of this update is that hopefully We'll have no more newbies Going Pvp in full pve Builds and whining If they suck
Pve will still play a big part. You need pve for all enchants, refining, upgrades, and artifacts. They Are a big part of your gear.
Still forcing you to switch gear sets to play pvp correctly, also another 2mill to slot the enchantments. I'm not going to sit here and argue Semantics with you. I have voiced my opinion and have accepted the fact the changes are coming. That's all I have to say about it.
Still forcing you to switch gear sets to play pvp correctly, also another 2mill to slot the enchantments. I'm not going to sit here and argue Semantics with you. I have voiced my opinion and have accepted the fact the changes are coming. That's all I have to say about it.
As i've said above: PvE spec and setup was bad for PvP even before these changes. It's already bad on live. What is required for PvE is not good for PvP. Example about GWF, the class i play:
- regeneration is a must have. Even after these changes, to recover between the fights and miyigate the damage. Lifesteal is not good for PvP, you deal less damage, and targets dodge-evade a lot. Regeneration is more valuable, also, since you get less damage than in a T2 dungeon.
Life steal is much better than regeneration in PvE in dungeons, for a DPS build. You deal tons of damage to huge crowds of mobs, that are not dodging-evading. This allows you to heal a ton of HP while fighting. On the other hand, you get much more damage than in PvP, and this means your regeneration can't usually keep up, since it heals less than life steal in a dungeon.
- ArP in PvE is capped at 24%. Mobs usually, bosses included, seem to have as much DR. 24%. This means you need that much of ArP. After that, more ArP does nothing. Which means, in a PvE build your main focus is power, recovery and stuff. In PvP, enemies usually have more than 24% DR. This means, using more ArP gives more benefit than slotting power and stop ArP at 24%.
- In PvE you can focus more on DPS, cause you've a DC constantly healing and protecting you with astral shield. In PvP, you don't have a DC Always sticked to your ***, so you need to go more tanky, and focus on tankiness first, DPS last.
These are examples just to say that it is already bad to use PvE setup-spec-gear to go PvP. If you were doing that, you were doing it wrong.
This new gear and tenacity should make people realize, may be, a bit more, that their GS and setup they built to be strong in PvE, is not good for PvP, cause you have different focuses in PvP than in PvE.
I, myself, already have 2 sets: 1 for PvP, 1 for PvE. You slowly build both sets, with different focuses.
My PvE set has ArP capped to 24%, stacked power, less defense, 1.3k life steal exc...
My PvP set has ArP stacked way above 24%, less power, much more defense, 1.3k regeneration, exc...
The armor pieces are also different. As a not-that-high HP hybrid, i didn't go for the 2/2 titan/scrapper, but used the PvP T1 set that heals me for 2-2.6k each time i go unstoppable (which, in PvP, happens a lot), which adds to regeneration. And was cheap.
In PvE, i'm currently using a 2/2 sharandar/ dread legion combo (AoW is too expensive) which give me tons of life steal and crit.
Only stuff i have in common between both builds is high crit and vorpal. Armor enchant is barkshield on the PvP set, briartwine on the PvE set. Again, different focus.
With new module i'm thinking about going terror on the PvP weapon set, and keep vorpal on the PvE set.
The thing is, you already need different stuff for PvP and PvE. It's just that people got used to PvE and PvP with the same stuff, thinking that what makes you strong in PvE must make you strong in PvP too. Wrong.
Hi my name is pando83, I don't understand that just because PVE build and equipment isn't optimal for PVP doesn't mean that making PVE equipment even worse for PVP is not a good thing! HELLO!
First, sarcasm is not needed. We're here to discuss stuff.
Second: it's not like PvE builds are not "optimal" for PvP. They are bad. Really bad. A DPS GWF that can top the chart in any dungeon, in PvP will be facerolled in a second. Reason is, you deal 0 DPS when you're dead. And a full DPS build in PvP will go down in seconds, before he can fight back.
Lifesteal on a GWF in PvP is not just "not optimal". It sucks big time.
A full DPS build is not just "not optimal". It sucks big time too.
And makes your team lose cause they are basically fighting 4v5.
So, making PvE gear even worse for PvP is very good to me, cause it can finally make people realize that they can't go PvP with PvE gear/ specs, basically damaging PvP for the rest of the players who go PvP and end up in a team with PvE builds that die before even touching the enemy.
PvP and PvE in neverwinter are very different, and have very different requirements. So a more clear separation is just good. Plain and simple.
There are still tons of important things to be acquired through PvE, such as artifacts, enchants, refining stuff to upgrade them exc...
And the need to have a second set will just push people to keep going PvE for enchants and more stuff to sell for AD to build their PvP gear (enchants and all).
Also, can further develop the 2 sets with different artifacts (like regen-defense-deflection artifacts for PvP, more offensive ArP-Power_crit artifacts for PvE.
Does it take time? Yes. If you want everything fast and maxed out, just to end up with nothing to do after 2 months and whine cause you want more content, it's a pain. But if you just enjoy the game and enjoy crafting your gear/ improving your build, and take your time to build your gear, you will find reasons to PvE and PvP for months.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
A bit of CW opinion... DPS Destro GWFs and even sentis with avatar gear/huge Power and low(ish) Con are quite balanced I'd say. I met quite a few of these guys, they hit like huge trucks, yet with some skill, resilience and luck, a CW can kill them, if they don't kill him first
The true issue are those BiS/near BiS sents with 35-40K HP, that hit almost as hard as the guys above, but are way, way more resilient, deflect many of your nukes, and basically anything that you throw at them without RNG crits that are not deflected just tickles them.
Also, as recognized by the developers, there's a bit of a bug with deflect, and CCs are reduced in duration and effects for deflected encounters (but also randomly, maybe from halfling racial?). So, you get to fight these guys, huge DR, unstoppable after each encounter, huge HP pool, huge deflect, lots of CC resists, self heals, temp HP, yet on top of that, if they get crits with their encounters (which they do, and quite often), you are toast.
Reducing self heals, regens and CC for everybody won't help us a lot. GWF sent builds such as above are still most powerful within the new Tenacity build.
As for PvE gear, I'd say most CWs would say that High Vizier is BiS for both PvE and PvP. So it's not like all PvE gear is bad. Actually this set is so good, that I and many others intend to at least try and wear it regardless of its lack of Tenacity.
Comments
Oh so a Control Wizard statting out in nothing but deflect and armor penetration and acheiving like 16k gearscore somehow (when its known most of control wizards abilities dont even benefit from armor penetration and they receive the least amoutn of deflect return from deflect) and just firing magic missles all day without actually using thier spells means they are good?
Gearscore is only a moderate contribution, the rest is based on skill and how one uses thier abilties. Gearscore here means much less than gearscore did in WoW for example. because everything is directly more reactive.
lower gearscore people can very much defeat higher gearscore people (though this becomes less true the farther the gap simply because of the vast difference in numbers)
Or a rogue that pours all thier gearscore into power and recovery. Getting around 13k somehow. Wont help them much. (Unless they have a specific playstyle to this, which is completely different)
For instance a 9k gearscore person can indeed beat a 14k gearscore person. No doubt, and on a regular basis if they are good.
GS is the sum of defenseiv and offensive stats, but thats all that is. There are father more important attributes than simply gearscore, where its playstyle and the actual skill of the player thats important.
In addition, gearscore is not the same throughout all classes. All the fighters for instance can acheive very high gearscore alot easier than other classes, but their actual levels of damage and such are actually at a similar level to gearscores alot lower than they actually are.
This is why the upcoming matchmaking system is not using gearscore as a means to match people.
ps: I am aware those gearscore numbers for the stat allocations I gave is not actually acheivable, its an example to give a point.
Edit: Also its not just the tenacity itself I dont like, its the healing depression as well.
Nice talking but ... , just a quick exemple :
cw1 cw2 ;
Same feat , Same gear , Same enchants but High lvl ones on cw 2 , hum do same rotation of skills and tell me wich one will do more damage. <- this is how the comparison should work ! and even in your exemple , if the opponent is a 10k/11k GS your cw will win with his magic missiles
I just received an ice knife from another cw that hit for 3k (not deflected) , conclusion ? i let you realize it !
Now if we compare classes , we won't make it , classes mecanisms are different ;
This post is about tenacity and its only in pvp i think , so no need to bring cw here who do massive damage only in pve
PS : knowldge in WoW or Whatever means nothing.
have a nice day all !
Is the cup half-full or half-empty?
If LB has been nerfed down 30~40% in damage, then so is any other attack landing on you. With Tenacity you have roughly 30~40% more survivability -- but since we TRs already don't have much complaints in surviving the current amount of damage, that means we have a 30~40% worth of stats/enchantments/buildstuff we may push towards more offense.
I'll reserve my opinion until I extensively experience the effects of Tenacity on live. As it is, I'm just not into doomsayers and end-of-days preachers
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Pvp does not work so linear my friend. Even if CW have the same rotation and the same feats. If they are fighting each other and realize this, at least one of them or both of them will change that rotation to screw with the other. If one of them doesnt, the other will one. Negating the conversation that its about gearscore.
Yes if the control wizard with that gearscore sits there using only magic missles the whole time, will win. If the opponent is brain dead and standing still. lol.
A control wizard will not win any fight with anyone actively being assaulted with just magic missles.
And WoW knowledge wasnt given or used. It was simply a comparison of the "gearscore" that both use and the misconception one would have coming from one game to the other with the same thing. Where that is indeed relevant. HP is the same through all games. HP stands for the amount of health one has. The same thing here with gearscore in the two games.
A fight in pvp is not as linear as you gave in the example. Even if the 2nd control wizard has higher enchants. The first control wizard can still win if he knows his rotation is similar to his and picks up on it.
Also the 3k ice knife. lol
Thats a case of really weak weapon the control wizard that casts it has.
Im not saying a person with 5k gearscore can beat a person with 13k gearscore. As I mentioned earlier, with gaps that wide, it will be highly unlikely due to the sheer difference in numbers. But for something like 9k gearscore fighting someone at 13-14k gearscore. Its very much possible for the former to win.
In addition I'd like to remind everyone that pvp is more than just who will win in a one on one fight.
Overall the tenacity feels really unneeded and doesnt really actually help anything at all and actually complicates things further. Where all thats really needed from the get go is proper matchmaking and be nice for some new maps.
lol bro, lashing blade has been nerf 4 month ago not recently, dont get me wrong here
Because lets face it... Only reason TR has been nerfed so much is because of cryers and whiners in PVP.
Why? Well to be simply put, time/money sink.
The thing though is TR's still have remained one of the strongest offensive classes after all those nerfs. so thats moot point.
Tenacity doesnt serve anyone anything substantial but a waste of time for everyone. It was unneeded, what was needed was proper matchmaking.
Yep, I agree proper matchmaking would have solved the issue too. However I still believe the Devs were giving candies to babies... PVP has no reward system at this moment in time so to go off the assumptions that TR is OP because of people who cry in pvp was wrong.
Myself included, regardless of how highly skilled or high gear score a TR is its 10 times harder to get into groups for anything nowadays.
I just saw a 16k GS perfects/legendary artifact TR die to a CW and HR within 5 sec. And those 2 have roughly 13k gs and normal/greater enchant.
So yeah GS really doesn't matter in the real word, u can argue there are case that it makes a difference, but skill has a much bigger effect for sure
No amount of skill is going to make a go-kart win a Formula-1 under normal circumstances.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I just took down Valindra with my guild the other day and did not feel worthless at all.
Deft strike, lurkers assault, sneak attack and Skillful infiltrator, combined with lashing blade and impossible to catch made me the fastest darn medic and casket killer you will see.
Click on the link in my sig and check out how I configure my setup for that run.
Keeping my teamates from dying and having to wipe and being able to take out 1 or 2 more caskets every time Valindra trys to bring in adds is extremely useful.
While not doing the above I was helping our GWF with DPS
We are far from worthless in PVE
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
From what i've read, tenacity should, let's say, add 20% reduction to damage and an additional 20% resistance to crits.
Now, would this mean that, for example, on a 4k hit:
if i have 100% crit severity, it becomes a 8k hit. Now, this damage is reduced by 40%(8000-3600=4400)?
How does it work. Is it crit resistance first 8000-1600=6400, then DR 6400-1280=5120 damage?
With a normal vorpal it would be 8000+1000--->9000
crit resistance---> 9000-1800=7200
dr--->7200-1440=5760
Is it something like that?
In the state where my class have been abandoned as DPS class now, makes me feel that I am going to spamm "TR 17k lfg for any t2 or vt 2/2" forever.
WTB Class Reroll please
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
*Edit*
I have spent to much on this game to be shafted like this and I liked running the dungeons. Some one please set me straight or I think this might just end for me.... And I really really enjoy this game...
*Edit*
WOW I just watched the new PVP video and I'm very disappointed you are forcing us to have 2 sets of gear for PVP and PVE. Cryptic team you are making a huge mistake with this patch. I get the tensity and the reduce of CC and the depressions. But you are forcing pvp players to run with 2 sets if they want to do dungeons?!?!?!?!?!?!!. I love this game but this is going to force me to stop playing and paying.......
*Edit*
Switching enchantment from gear to gear ?????? Really??? or I have to refine another Set??? and if I want to get to where I am now, I'm going to have to shell out more cash then I already have, witch I don't mind doing for a game I enjoy playing, hell no I spent to much time and money getting to where I am to get rammed like this with no lube.
I might as well go full permastealth again and solo all the dungeons?
Yeah, already utterly tired of that...I just want to be what I am supposed to be - DPS.
WTB Class Reroll please
Butters TR PVP
Not yet, that's the last thing we need, having to refine another set of enchants to high rank, after many of us spent MONTHS of farming and many millions of AD for what we have now.
Cryptic si not forcing you to do anything.
You can go pvp with your pve gear. It's just up to you.
Also, pvp and pve require different stats. I already built two sets for this simple reason. Pvp and pve have different focuses. Going pvp with pve gear si really wrong even now. You are weak with pve build in pvp, and you weaken your team. Be patient and work on your sets. Focus on the mode you like more.
The good thing of this update is that hopefully We'll have no more newbies Going Pvp in full pve Builds and whining If they suck
Pve will still play a big part. You need pve for all enchants, refining, upgrades, and artifacts. They Are a big part of your gear.
Rather than changing aspects on the CW or DC, why not fix the real problems that are rogues perma stealth / immune and dps warriors? ... . And you should be aware of this, as the returns are many since the game's release!
The quality of pvp in this game could be set in a few hours, while you prefer change everything else and it takes months of unnecessary waiting. You're not on the right track at Cryptic gentlemen, you may ultimately make matters worse.
(google trad)
Still forcing you to switch gear sets to play pvp correctly, also another 2mill to slot the enchantments. I'm not going to sit here and argue Semantics with you. I have voiced my opinion and have accepted the fact the changes are coming. That's all I have to say about it.
As i've said above: PvE spec and setup was bad for PvP even before these changes. It's already bad on live. What is required for PvE is not good for PvP. Example about GWF, the class i play:
- regeneration is a must have. Even after these changes, to recover between the fights and miyigate the damage. Lifesteal is not good for PvP, you deal less damage, and targets dodge-evade a lot. Regeneration is more valuable, also, since you get less damage than in a T2 dungeon.
Life steal is much better than regeneration in PvE in dungeons, for a DPS build. You deal tons of damage to huge crowds of mobs, that are not dodging-evading. This allows you to heal a ton of HP while fighting. On the other hand, you get much more damage than in PvP, and this means your regeneration can't usually keep up, since it heals less than life steal in a dungeon.
- ArP in PvE is capped at 24%. Mobs usually, bosses included, seem to have as much DR. 24%. This means you need that much of ArP. After that, more ArP does nothing. Which means, in a PvE build your main focus is power, recovery and stuff. In PvP, enemies usually have more than 24% DR. This means, using more ArP gives more benefit than slotting power and stop ArP at 24%.
- In PvE you can focus more on DPS, cause you've a DC constantly healing and protecting you with astral shield. In PvP, you don't have a DC Always sticked to your ***, so you need to go more tanky, and focus on tankiness first, DPS last.
These are examples just to say that it is already bad to use PvE setup-spec-gear to go PvP. If you were doing that, you were doing it wrong.
This new gear and tenacity should make people realize, may be, a bit more, that their GS and setup they built to be strong in PvE, is not good for PvP, cause you have different focuses in PvP than in PvE.
I, myself, already have 2 sets: 1 for PvP, 1 for PvE. You slowly build both sets, with different focuses.
My PvE set has ArP capped to 24%, stacked power, less defense, 1.3k life steal exc...
My PvP set has ArP stacked way above 24%, less power, much more defense, 1.3k regeneration, exc...
The armor pieces are also different. As a not-that-high HP hybrid, i didn't go for the 2/2 titan/scrapper, but used the PvP T1 set that heals me for 2-2.6k each time i go unstoppable (which, in PvP, happens a lot), which adds to regeneration. And was cheap.
In PvE, i'm currently using a 2/2 sharandar/ dread legion combo (AoW is too expensive) which give me tons of life steal and crit.
Only stuff i have in common between both builds is high crit and vorpal. Armor enchant is barkshield on the PvP set, briartwine on the PvE set. Again, different focus.
With new module i'm thinking about going terror on the PvP weapon set, and keep vorpal on the PvE set.
The thing is, you already need different stuff for PvP and PvE. It's just that people got used to PvE and PvP with the same stuff, thinking that what makes you strong in PvE must make you strong in PvP too. Wrong.
First, sarcasm is not needed. We're here to discuss stuff.
Second: it's not like PvE builds are not "optimal" for PvP. They are bad. Really bad. A DPS GWF that can top the chart in any dungeon, in PvP will be facerolled in a second. Reason is, you deal 0 DPS when you're dead. And a full DPS build in PvP will go down in seconds, before he can fight back.
Lifesteal on a GWF in PvP is not just "not optimal". It sucks big time.
A full DPS build is not just "not optimal". It sucks big time too.
And makes your team lose cause they are basically fighting 4v5.
So, making PvE gear even worse for PvP is very good to me, cause it can finally make people realize that they can't go PvP with PvE gear/ specs, basically damaging PvP for the rest of the players who go PvP and end up in a team with PvE builds that die before even touching the enemy.
PvP and PvE in neverwinter are very different, and have very different requirements. So a more clear separation is just good. Plain and simple.
There are still tons of important things to be acquired through PvE, such as artifacts, enchants, refining stuff to upgrade them exc...
And the need to have a second set will just push people to keep going PvE for enchants and more stuff to sell for AD to build their PvP gear (enchants and all).
Also, can further develop the 2 sets with different artifacts (like regen-defense-deflection artifacts for PvP, more offensive ArP-Power_crit artifacts for PvE.
Does it take time? Yes. If you want everything fast and maxed out, just to end up with nothing to do after 2 months and whine cause you want more content, it's a pain. But if you just enjoy the game and enjoy crafting your gear/ improving your build, and take your time to build your gear, you will find reasons to PvE and PvP for months.
The true issue are those BiS/near BiS sents with 35-40K HP, that hit almost as hard as the guys above, but are way, way more resilient, deflect many of your nukes, and basically anything that you throw at them without RNG crits that are not deflected just tickles them.
Also, as recognized by the developers, there's a bit of a bug with deflect, and CCs are reduced in duration and effects for deflected encounters (but also randomly, maybe from halfling racial?). So, you get to fight these guys, huge DR, unstoppable after each encounter, huge HP pool, huge deflect, lots of CC resists, self heals, temp HP, yet on top of that, if they get crits with their encounters (which they do, and quite often), you are toast.
Reducing self heals, regens and CC for everybody won't help us a lot. GWF sent builds such as above are still most powerful within the new Tenacity build.
As for PvE gear, I'd say most CWs would say that High Vizier is BiS for both PvE and PvP. So it's not like all PvE gear is bad. Actually this set is so good, that I and many others intend to at least try and wear it regardless of its lack of Tenacity.