Seems pretty clear that this cheerleading for the leader penalty is more associated with 'punish people I don't like' as opposed to 'fix the problem'.
You're right. I don't like people who ruin the fun for 9 other people. And then do it again. And again. And yes, they must be punished!
I never saw any problems with the PvP system (except for matchmaking). If someone in my team is a moron who likes to fight off point while it's capped by the enemy, or go to the own base although there's already 1+ of our teammates on it, or join some other moron in chasing a permastealth TR until everything else is capped by the enemy, then leaves the match just to queue up again immediately, I want him out of the PvP community!
And no matter what you introduce: Tenacity, further nerfs of certain abilities… People who actually know what they are doing will always find ways to make the best out of their class. And pugs will have to deal with their problems and ask themselves where team points in PvP actually come from. The new module won't change the fact (at first) that pugs will go for their base first, fight off point… but over time, the Leaver Penalty will force them to deal with it and to learn tactics/how the system works.
Yeah, a PVP leavers penalty should really only affect PVP. This or you absolutely have to install the penalty in the other queues as well.
Problem is that you see leaving as part of the game. It's not supposed to be that way. It is supposed to be a punishment! And if you ask me, it's way too loose. It should be:
- at least 1 hour.
- start with a 10 min ban (something to remember, and not be just part of the normal gaming experience), followed by 50 min of timeout for any queue.
- be account-wide.
The only problem is people who don't want to learn. This game has voice chat. Use it!
P.S.: I usually pug with an 11k GS (while my normal GS is 16.5k).
Problem is that you see leaving as part of the game. It's not supposed to be that way. It is supposed to be a punishment! And if you ask me, it's way too loose. It should be:
- at least 1 hour.
- start with a 10 min ban (something to remember, and not be just part of the normal gaming experience), followed by 50 min of timeout for any queue.
- be account-wide.
The only problem is people who don't want to learn. This game has voice chat. Use it!
P.S.: I usually pug with an 11k GS (while my normal GS is 16.5k).
I get that, but you want to punish queuing beyond PVP, than punish leavers beyond PVP as well. It's called equality.
Plus you still don't get that people will just start camping, good luck having fun with that.
1) Leaver penalties, afk penalty, pentalty this, penalty that. So many solotions are are stick and no carrot
2) The penalty is addressing the symptoms and not the problem, you're trying to cure the cough from the disease. Another bandaid solution
You want to force people to be "good sports" and stay for a pittance of glory (or none since people want further loosing nerfs)?
You want people to continue a fight against an over powered team sitting right outside the spawn .. or in the spawn point?
Oh wait, I know .. you just want an endless supply of kills *sigh*
You want good loosers, without making you be good winners.
Go over to the CO forums folks, ask them about their PVP. Oh wait, there is none. Everyone quit due to imballances and player abuse
Can we just put glory in every skirmish now? It's a team event, it's a bandage solution that the Cryptic coffee boy could implement.
That at least removes the people who never wanted to PVP in the first place from PVP. Plus we'll all need it for the 1 or 2 good things in the Glory vendor when PVP doesn't queue anymore.
You want to force people to be "good sports" and stay for a pittance of glory (or none since people want further loosing nerfs)?
You want people to continue a fight against an over powered team sitting right outside the spawn .. or in the spawn point?
You do understand that when the leavers penalty is patched onto live it will go hand in hand with the new ELO matchmaking system that should prevent overpowered premades or individuals from being matched against newer less well geared players don't you?
You do understand that when the leavers penalty is patched onto live it will go hand in hand with the new ELO matchmaking system that should prevent overpowered premades or individuals from being matched against newer less well geared players don't you?
That's slightly incorrect. Lesser geared pugs will still be matched up against premades and a premade will always have an advantage over a pug, even if it consists players of same gear and elo-rating.
That's why smart people are heavily voting for a separate queue for premades. The matchmaking can only do so much.
Yeah penalize the tank and DC-builds even more as they are current! Why don't enable a -100% DR and -100% healing depression for them? Remove these useless builds, because PVP don't need them. Your suggestion is a slap in the face of them. How you think these both build choices will aquire points? With the capturing? Because Assists/be tanky|healer isn't really paid off/not paid. Only kills count good and these can't do them. Im against such a solution. It make even the stupid killer builds more effective.
It is also possible to add a "support" part to the points count, and make it being fed by healings/ protections/ resurrections. And a "point defense" part to the score, where staying on a capped point and defend it actually brings, for example, x points every second you manage to keep your point uncontested.
These are suggestions to solve some problems apart from the current "punish punish punish" behaviour.
You can make suggestions too, instead of jumping at people when you don't like their suggestions and just complain.
Right now, all you read is "punish here, punish there", under the assumption that "the ELO system will work flawlessly". Right now, i see bad losers who quit fast, but also very bad winners. And some people seem to refuse to take into account that there is also a "bad winners" issue and "premade vs pug glory farming", and that you have first to remove all the sources of frustration from PvP before actually start to punish people if they leave PvP.
Else, you will end up with a frustrating PvP system that also forces players to stay there, wasting their time to, for example, spend 10 minutes in a "get out of the base--->get swarmed--->repeat" loop.
As new PvP gear comes into play and at the cost of huge amounts of glory, you'll see people farming glory even more.
So the reward system MAY need a little change.
That's slightly incorrect. Lesser geared pugs will still be matched up against premades and a premade will always have an advantage over a pug, even if it consists players of same gear and elo-rating.
That's why smart people are heavily voting for a separate queue for premades. The matchmaking can only do so much.
Proof of this is the PvP video of EoA vs devs we saw. Devs were all well geared, but as we saw, experience and coordination still play the main role. They were akk geared, and could very well even be able to use well their classes, individually. But their teamplay was not good, they were disorganized and, as a result, they just kept getting swarmed by the more organized premade of the EoA guild. And lost 1000-2. That is how much a coordinated premade can gain against an even geared, but not organized Group. A system to prevent people from going premade vs pug must be created. Cause, as i said, with the new gear and stuff, farming glory will be even more important. And while we already are plagued by the premade vs pug issue, it could get even worst with the new changes, if something is not done.
Just look at the DD queue. Pugging is pretty much dead beyond T1, I've probably not queued since... ever. This will happen to PVP as well. Either form a premade and glory farm PUGs or get farmed.
And yeah, with the 100k+ glory requirements for the T2.5 people will get creative and figure out how to be matched up against weaker opposition (PUGs).
That's slightly incorrect. Lesser geared pugs will still be matched up against premades and a premade will always have an advantage over a pug, even if it consists players of same gear and elo-rating.
That's why smart people are heavily voting for a separate queue for premades. The matchmaking can only do so much.
Yeah I saw that video before it was removed and it was pretty a sad spectacle , personally I have no problem with premade teams being able to queue to fight each other apart from the fact that such a system would be open to abuse especially with the high prices of the new Pvp gear ,if they let premade groups choose to play each other then unfortunately i see organised glory farming being a huge issue unless it is purely for fun and not for glory ,maybe organised premade v premade could have some seperate ranking or league with no glory on a match to match basis but some really good end of season reward for the top teams , i dunno what that would be though
Yeah I saw that video before it was removed and it was pretty a sad spectacle , personally I have no problem with premade teams being able to queue to fight each other apart from the fact that such a system would be open to abuse especially with the high prices of the new Pvp gear ,if they let premade groups choose to play each other then unfortunately i see organised glory farming being a huge issue unless it is purely for fun and not for glory ,maybe organised premade v premade could have some seperate ranking or league with no glory on a match to match basis but some really good end of season reward for the top teams , i dunno what that would be though
Yeah that goes without saying. You pug (alone) for glory and premade for the ladder. Take organized sports away from the common queue and let the matchmaking handle the rest.
The premade elo would then ideally be team and not player based.
It should be reasonable to create a system which detects if a person hasn't moved anywhere, especially within the spawn area, and safely assert that while the person may not have left the party but they did technically leave the match. I don't see this as an unreasonable feature to implement to stop the most basic form of Spawn Camping/AFKing.
Then a more advanced system would have to be put into place to prevent people from griefing the match in other ways but we could literally discuss the nuances of such a system in circles for days.
It's really easy to be bypassed this. KBD/Mouse with macros for 20$ and the player will go down and will use what he have as skill till death - I can wish you good luck to catch this.
Or I can just give my computer on my little 5 years son and will go to kiss my wife.
So if you do hardest penalty then it will be follow for less money for you because less players - I do not think that you want it. About this you can look all other death MMOs.
As I said in one other threat the only solution that you can do for less damage for both side Cryptic/Players is to make queue to replace leaver with next single player that queue. This solution work in few other MMOs and there is NO DRAMA with this problem. Easy - no ? One of really nice and enjoyable things in this game because much people play PVP is that here DO NOT HAVE penalty yet.
If you put penalty 30 min something people will just refuse PVP daily and other can leave the game. If someone have 2-3 hours to play per day (and as you know they are not a little) with 30 min penalty for everything, easiest solution for the player is always new game
And of course some kind of AFK as I said above.
Do not break the game please
_____
As Pando83 said make duels 5vs5 with no reward.
Long time ago when Tera start there isn't pvp system but players had a options to do duels just like make a ride group for map farm no other places, no reward - nothing. You really can imagine how much people did it - just for fun.
Stop blaming the system already and deal with basic psychology! The reason for 90 % of the leavers is not matchmaking/balance fails. It's basic "underclass" frustration. You die, you're frustrated, you hate the "1 death" on the scoreboard, you know that now you probably won't be able to be 1st in place, because your teammates will cap the base without you -> you leave, queue up again. Problem is: you will never learn to PvP. I pug a lot. I know why people really leave: being stupid, not knowing basic tactics, raging. And it's not a NW phenomenon. It's a basic underclass reaction of a less educated, more emotional person in any game. If there is no mechanism (in this case: penalty) to trigger learning, they will never do. A penalty makes them deal with the situation instead of running away from it.
@goldheart: Fun fact about TERA (now that you mention it). TERA is quite PvP-focused. Leavers are not tolerated there (although they exist). Excessive leaving (on purpose or more than 7 times/week) can be reported and leads to a permanent ban.
The reason for 90 % of the leavers is not matchmaking/balance fails.
Although what you said has truth to it, I believe your % is incorrect. Been playing this game since closed Beta, since the nerf for glory you get as losers, you see a LOT MORE leavers. They lessened the glory to dissuade bot farmers but that just caused more issues than it fixed. It would be fun AND worth it for me to stay, for example, and do pvp whether my pug team looses or wins if we all get the same glory or not such a high difference between winners or losers. There are cases where I've lost by 100 points only but since it's a loss, guess what, I got 283 glory for that match instead of 1000, what a waste of 45 minutes of play. Better for me to have left the match and done the next one that I know I will win in. Not everybody lives and breathes pvp. Some people just want to:
1. farm glory for artifact
2. daily rough ADs
3. newly level 60 with blue gear farming for their first epics in pvp (how long do you think they'll get their full set? with 200 glory a pop? that's even assuming he got 400 points during a pvp run, if you don't have 400 points you got no glory)
I'm sorry but the matchmaking or glory rewarding system IS broken. Premades wanting to go against another premade, HAVE to leave a que because of matchmaking fail. What goldheart said:
Honestly I don't experience too much of leaver problem myself. But that is because I always am the first one to leave lol.
Seriously I believe in my own judgement when doing solo queue. Most pug are clueless and they don't listen.
Besides a match making fix that including ranking ladder aka Elo, a surrender vote still can be useful since sometimes the game is just not winnable, I see no point of wasting my time in it so I can get 2 v 1 and 3 v 1 constantly when my enemy are at relatively close skill level as I am, cause you will die and it is kind of pointless. All because someone in the team is not being able to 1 v 1 or do proper rotation, that does not mean the rest of the team should suffer for the whole match. Premade it is different, but when solo queue I think it would be really sad to be forced to finish a losing game in such manner.
Oh and bottom line if no one wanna get the penalty they can just sit at spawn try ask 1 v 1 or just alt-tab out, the ragers/whiners/nuubs would still be a drag no matter they leave or not, and in PVP most people would slaughter the other team no matter what, no one cares if one of your teammate simply afk or decide to just roam around do nothing but troll.
Imo a simple introduction of leaver penalty potentially break the game even more. They gonna need to do some hard work on match making people with similar skill, but after I watch the vs DEV PVP video I have confirmed that this is not gonna happen because Dev has no skill. So basically the PVP is kind of ruined except for maybe really high end rating, referring to the current active top tier PVP community. Everyone else would still suffer, and suffer more compare now.
I think no one can give a % of the reason why people leave PvP.
From my experience btw, i see almost no one leaving a close match.
Few leaving a losing match if you can fight and make points.
Many leaving a clearly losing match where you hardly can fight back.
99% of the matches i play end up with one of the teams winning very, very clearly.
I'd start erasing all the source of reasons why a match end up uneven.
Which means, to me, ELO ranking matchmaking AND separate PvP for preformed groups and individuals who queue alone.
After that, i'd start punishing "bad losers" who leave if they can't win, with the penalty.
Also, consider that as we have bad losers or "quitters", we also have very bad winners.
What do i mean? I mean people who is winning 600-50, 3v5, and keep swarming any enemy they see, chasing them through all the map like rabid dogs, camping close to the spawn.
Now, you want to swarm insta-kill your enemy as soon as he attempts to leave the spawn while you could, for example, arrange 1v1s or attack a lone enemy 1by1 for more funny fights. But you want to swarm. Your right.
But you ruin the "losers" fun this way, cause you prevent them from doing anything.
From my point of view, right now, with the current system, bad winners ruin the fun just like bad losers.
mostly the quit because if u lose u get 3 times less glory then if u win so why would they waste 10 mins for 300 glory when they can queue in another and get 1k
15 Minutes is much more reasonable, adds a component to not wanting to leave, but is not too steep that it will effect and hurt the more casual players.
More casual = leaver? Sorry, but if this is your definition of a more casual player, then I don't want "more casual" players to play with or against me. It's a penalty, not a game mechanic! And if the "more casual" player decides to ruin the fun for 9 other players, as I mentioned before, 10 min ban + 50 min timeout from any queue should be the minimum, in my opinion.
More casual = leaver? Sorry, but if this is your definition of a more casual player, then I don't want "more casual" players to play with or against me. It's a penalty, not a game mechanic! And if the "more casual" player decides to ruin the fun for 9 other players, as I mentioned before, 10 min ban + 50 min timeout from any queue should be the minimum, in my opinion.
GWFs should be banned for at least five minutes per kill gained through bugged powers and features, they ruin my fun as well. See, "fun" is subjective, the leaver penalty dictates players how to have fun. That shouldn't happen and is is a poor man's approach.
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theheroshieldMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 24Arc User
edited February 2014
Maybe there should be a 'bad player' penalty. I mean you all say we should stick it out even if players are being jerks to us, but you don't say anything about punishing these players. Why not? I say if a player gets reported in three different PVPs for being a jerk, maybe that player should get a penalty. I mean what are the odds that you'd find three different groups that have it out for the same player? Possible, but very unlikely.
News feed reads as follows when you leave a pvp match: You will not be able to queue for any queueable content. This includes other Domination matches, Gauntlgrym, skirmishes and dungeons.
ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?
Why penalize someone from doing PvE content when you leave PvP. This is ridiculous and nonetheless something that should be reconsidered. PvP and PvE are different in terms of playability and matchmaking. Do NOT penalize someone from one aspect of the game from the other. Its unfair and unnecessary. That is all.
That said, I wouldn't mind if they applied the same penalties for PvE content.
That could be a very bad idea. Think about it, you pug into a dungeon, you get to the last boss but no matter what you do you just cannot beat it. At that point the only option is to leave but then you're going to get locked out of queue.
I myself haven't had many people quit in PvE except as stated above, we try multiple times and fail at which point everyone agrees to leave.
bajornorbertMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 272Arc User
edited February 2014
Haven't read all the posts before, so it may have been asked before, but what happens when you afk or get kicked?
If it applies the leaver penalty then it's a problem, because you could be penalized for things like opening the door or party kicking you just for fun. On the other hand if you don't get penalized for it, then it can be exploited, eg party members vote kicking each other, and afking 1 min to get auto kicked, this way you'll leave the pvp match and get no penalty just as before.
It has never occurred to cryptic to address the issue of people ragequitting pvp, so their solution to ragequitting is to punish people for ragequitting pvp. This will have the consequence of making people ragequit the game more often, but oh well. I have suggested multiple times in the preview forum they should REWARD people for staying and fighting, not punish them for leaving when they aren't able to get a single point of glory. I hope newbies realize after being forced to stay in a dozen pvps where they get 0 glory that pvp in this game is not worth doing.
I would be happy with them removing any and all PvE-based rewards from PvP, because that really is the reason most afk/quitting people are there.
If PvP was a thing people did for fun, because they wanted to PvP (and only because they wanted to PvP), then you'd get far fewer people that are only there for the daily/artifact grind. You have a much greater chance of getting a match where both teams genuinely want to fight.
Let's be brutally honest, PvP is at the moment an unremittingly dismal experience 90% of the time, because the balance is terrible, the matchmaking is non-existent, and over half the people there simply do not want to be there. Take away any reason for people who don't want to be there to play PvP and then you've still got 99 problems, but quitters ain't one.
Making it a choice issue would be workable: something like "Complete a daily dungeon OR play 4 PvP matches" as a 4k AD reward might satisfy everyone, for instance.
...except of course the daily dungeon would still be the bloody dread vault....-_-
mod note: let's remember to keep the feedback constructive. attacking other people's opinions is a violation of forum rule 1.02. it's okay to disagree with someone and their opinion, but it needs to be stated in a respectful and constructive way. calling people fools or idiots for thinking the upcoming changes are going to be a viable solution is not constructive and is construed as disrespect and attacking.
do not respond to this mod note as doing in the open forums is a violation of forum rule section V. instead, send us a PM if you'd like to discuss it.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited February 2014
If people get punished for leaving pvp, instead of leaving they will just sit afk at pvp campfire...
We need to have a catapult throw people into pvp area from campfire after 35 seconds to prevent this.
If people are allowed to sit afk at campfire during pvp, then this system has failed.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Comments
You probably typed a character like ' or something from the extended ascii table, that seems to bug out the forums sometimes but not every time.
Can only hope the devs have better sense.
You're right. I don't like people who ruin the fun for 9 other people. And then do it again. And again. And yes, they must be punished!
I never saw any problems with the PvP system (except for matchmaking). If someone in my team is a moron who likes to fight off point while it's capped by the enemy, or go to the own base although there's already 1+ of our teammates on it, or join some other moron in chasing a permastealth TR until everything else is capped by the enemy, then leaves the match just to queue up again immediately, I want him out of the PvP community!
And no matter what you introduce: Tenacity, further nerfs of certain abilities… People who actually know what they are doing will always find ways to make the best out of their class. And pugs will have to deal with their problems and ask themselves where team points in PvP actually come from. The new module won't change the fact (at first) that pugs will go for their base first, fight off point… but over time, the Leaver Penalty will force them to deal with it and to learn tactics/how the system works.
Problem is that you see leaving as part of the game. It's not supposed to be that way. It is supposed to be a punishment! And if you ask me, it's way too loose. It should be:
- at least 1 hour.
- start with a 10 min ban (something to remember, and not be just part of the normal gaming experience), followed by 50 min of timeout for any queue.
- be account-wide.
The only problem is people who don't want to learn. This game has voice chat. Use it!
P.S.: I usually pug with an 11k GS (while my normal GS is 16.5k).
I get that, but you want to punish queuing beyond PVP, than punish leavers beyond PVP as well. It's called equality.
Plus you still don't get that people will just start camping, good luck having fun with that.
2) The penalty is addressing the symptoms and not the problem, you're trying to cure the cough from the disease. Another bandaid solution
You want to force people to be "good sports" and stay for a pittance of glory (or none since people want further loosing nerfs)?
You want people to continue a fight against an over powered team sitting right outside the spawn .. or in the spawn point?
Oh wait, I know .. you just want an endless supply of kills *sigh*
You want good loosers, without making you be good winners.
Go over to the CO forums folks, ask them about their PVP. Oh wait, there is none. Everyone quit due to imballances and player abuse
Can we just put glory in every skirmish now? It's a team event, it's a bandage solution that the Cryptic coffee boy could implement.
That at least removes the people who never wanted to PVP in the first place from PVP. Plus we'll all need it for the 1 or 2 good things in the Glory vendor when PVP doesn't queue anymore.
You do understand that when the leavers penalty is patched onto live it will go hand in hand with the new ELO matchmaking system that should prevent overpowered premades or individuals from being matched against newer less well geared players don't you?
That's slightly incorrect. Lesser geared pugs will still be matched up against premades and a premade will always have an advantage over a pug, even if it consists players of same gear and elo-rating.
That's why smart people are heavily voting for a separate queue for premades. The matchmaking can only do so much.
It is also possible to add a "support" part to the points count, and make it being fed by healings/ protections/ resurrections. And a "point defense" part to the score, where staying on a capped point and defend it actually brings, for example, x points every second you manage to keep your point uncontested.
These are suggestions to solve some problems apart from the current "punish punish punish" behaviour.
You can make suggestions too, instead of jumping at people when you don't like their suggestions and just complain.
Right now, all you read is "punish here, punish there", under the assumption that "the ELO system will work flawlessly". Right now, i see bad losers who quit fast, but also very bad winners. And some people seem to refuse to take into account that there is also a "bad winners" issue and "premade vs pug glory farming", and that you have first to remove all the sources of frustration from PvP before actually start to punish people if they leave PvP.
Else, you will end up with a frustrating PvP system that also forces players to stay there, wasting their time to, for example, spend 10 minutes in a "get out of the base--->get swarmed--->repeat" loop.
As new PvP gear comes into play and at the cost of huge amounts of glory, you'll see people farming glory even more.
So the reward system MAY need a little change.
Proof of this is the PvP video of EoA vs devs we saw. Devs were all well geared, but as we saw, experience and coordination still play the main role. They were akk geared, and could very well even be able to use well their classes, individually. But their teamplay was not good, they were disorganized and, as a result, they just kept getting swarmed by the more organized premade of the EoA guild. And lost 1000-2. That is how much a coordinated premade can gain against an even geared, but not organized Group. A system to prevent people from going premade vs pug must be created. Cause, as i said, with the new gear and stuff, farming glory will be even more important. And while we already are plagued by the premade vs pug issue, it could get even worst with the new changes, if something is not done.
And yeah, with the 100k+ glory requirements for the T2.5 people will get creative and figure out how to be matched up against weaker opposition (PUGs).
Yeah I saw that video before it was removed and it was pretty a sad spectacle , personally I have no problem with premade teams being able to queue to fight each other apart from the fact that such a system would be open to abuse especially with the high prices of the new Pvp gear ,if they let premade groups choose to play each other then unfortunately i see organised glory farming being a huge issue unless it is purely for fun and not for glory ,maybe organised premade v premade could have some seperate ranking or league with no glory on a match to match basis but some really good end of season reward for the top teams , i dunno what that would be though
Yeah that goes without saying. You pug (alone) for glory and premade for the ladder. Take organized sports away from the common queue and let the matchmaking handle the rest.
The premade elo would then ideally be team and not player based.
It's really easy to be bypassed this. KBD/Mouse with macros for 20$ and the player will go down and will use what he have as skill till death - I can wish you good luck to catch this.
Or I can just give my computer on my little 5 years son and will go to kiss my wife.
So if you do hardest penalty then it will be follow for less money for you because less players - I do not think that you want it. About this you can look all other death MMOs.
As I said in one other threat the only solution that you can do for less damage for both side Cryptic/Players is to make queue to replace leaver with next single player that queue. This solution work in few other MMOs and there is NO DRAMA with this problem. Easy - no ? One of really nice and enjoyable things in this game because much people play PVP is that here DO NOT HAVE penalty yet.
If you put penalty 30 min something people will just refuse PVP daily and other can leave the game. If someone have 2-3 hours to play per day (and as you know they are not a little) with 30 min penalty for everything, easiest solution for the player is always new game
And of course some kind of AFK as I said above.
Do not break the game please
_____
As Pando83 said make duels 5vs5 with no reward.
Long time ago when Tera start there isn't pvp system but players had a options to do duels just like make a ride group for map farm no other places, no reward - nothing. You really can imagine how much people did it - just for fun.
@goldheart: Fun fact about TERA (now that you mention it). TERA is quite PvP-focused. Leavers are not tolerated there (although they exist). Excessive leaving (on purpose or more than 7 times/week) can be reported and leads to a permanent ban.
Although what you said has truth to it, I believe your % is incorrect. Been playing this game since closed Beta, since the nerf for glory you get as losers, you see a LOT MORE leavers. They lessened the glory to dissuade bot farmers but that just caused more issues than it fixed. It would be fun AND worth it for me to stay, for example, and do pvp whether my pug team looses or wins if we all get the same glory or not such a high difference between winners or losers. There are cases where I've lost by 100 points only but since it's a loss, guess what, I got 283 glory for that match instead of 1000, what a waste of 45 minutes of play. Better for me to have left the match and done the next one that I know I will win in. Not everybody lives and breathes pvp. Some people just want to:
1. farm glory for artifact
2. daily rough ADs
3. newly level 60 with blue gear farming for their first epics in pvp (how long do you think they'll get their full set? with 200 glory a pop? that's even assuming he got 400 points during a pvp run, if you don't have 400 points you got no glory)
I'm sorry but the matchmaking or glory rewarding system IS broken. Premades wanting to go against another premade, HAVE to leave a que because of matchmaking fail. What goldheart said:
Best solution I've heard so far. That and upping the glory, maybe based on POINTS YOU GOT in the pvp match, not whether you win or lose.
Honestly I don't experience too much of leaver problem myself. But that is because I always am the first one to leave lol.
Seriously I believe in my own judgement when doing solo queue. Most pug are clueless and they don't listen.
Besides a match making fix that including ranking ladder aka Elo, a surrender vote still can be useful since sometimes the game is just not winnable, I see no point of wasting my time in it so I can get 2 v 1 and 3 v 1 constantly when my enemy are at relatively close skill level as I am, cause you will die and it is kind of pointless. All because someone in the team is not being able to 1 v 1 or do proper rotation, that does not mean the rest of the team should suffer for the whole match. Premade it is different, but when solo queue I think it would be really sad to be forced to finish a losing game in such manner.
Oh and bottom line if no one wanna get the penalty they can just sit at spawn try ask 1 v 1 or just alt-tab out, the ragers/whiners/nuubs would still be a drag no matter they leave or not, and in PVP most people would slaughter the other team no matter what, no one cares if one of your teammate simply afk or decide to just roam around do nothing but troll.
Imo a simple introduction of leaver penalty potentially break the game even more. They gonna need to do some hard work on match making people with similar skill, but after I watch the vs DEV PVP video I have confirmed that this is not gonna happen because Dev has no skill. So basically the PVP is kind of ruined except for maybe really high end rating, referring to the current active top tier PVP community. Everyone else would still suffer, and suffer more compare now.
From my experience btw, i see almost no one leaving a close match.
Few leaving a losing match if you can fight and make points.
Many leaving a clearly losing match where you hardly can fight back.
99% of the matches i play end up with one of the teams winning very, very clearly.
I'd start erasing all the source of reasons why a match end up uneven.
Which means, to me, ELO ranking matchmaking AND separate PvP for preformed groups and individuals who queue alone.
After that, i'd start punishing "bad losers" who leave if they can't win, with the penalty.
Also, consider that as we have bad losers or "quitters", we also have very bad winners.
What do i mean? I mean people who is winning 600-50, 3v5, and keep swarming any enemy they see, chasing them through all the map like rabid dogs, camping close to the spawn.
Now, you want to swarm insta-kill your enemy as soon as he attempts to leave the spawn while you could, for example, arrange 1v1s or attack a lone enemy 1by1 for more funny fights. But you want to swarm. Your right.
But you ruin the "losers" fun this way, cause you prevent them from doing anything.
From my point of view, right now, with the current system, bad winners ruin the fun just like bad losers.
More casual = leaver? Sorry, but if this is your definition of a more casual player, then I don't want "more casual" players to play with or against me. It's a penalty, not a game mechanic! And if the "more casual" player decides to ruin the fun for 9 other players, as I mentioned before, 10 min ban + 50 min timeout from any queue should be the minimum, in my opinion.
GWFs should be banned for at least five minutes per kill gained through bugged powers and features, they ruin my fun as well. See, "fun" is subjective, the leaver penalty dictates players how to have fun. That shouldn't happen and is is a poor man's approach.
ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?
Why penalize someone from doing PvE content when you leave PvP. This is ridiculous and nonetheless something that should be reconsidered. PvP and PvE are different in terms of playability and matchmaking. Do NOT penalize someone from one aspect of the game from the other. Its unfair and unnecessary. That is all.
That could be a very bad idea. Think about it, you pug into a dungeon, you get to the last boss but no matter what you do you just cannot beat it. At that point the only option is to leave but then you're going to get locked out of queue.
I myself haven't had many people quit in PvE except as stated above, we try multiple times and fail at which point everyone agrees to leave.
If it applies the leaver penalty then it's a problem, because you could be penalized for things like opening the door or party kicking you just for fun. On the other hand if you don't get penalized for it, then it can be exploited, eg party members vote kicking each other, and afking 1 min to get auto kicked, this way you'll leave the pvp match and get no penalty just as before.
If PvP was a thing people did for fun, because they wanted to PvP (and only because they wanted to PvP), then you'd get far fewer people that are only there for the daily/artifact grind. You have a much greater chance of getting a match where both teams genuinely want to fight.
Let's be brutally honest, PvP is at the moment an unremittingly dismal experience 90% of the time, because the balance is terrible, the matchmaking is non-existent, and over half the people there simply do not want to be there. Take away any reason for people who don't want to be there to play PvP and then you've still got 99 problems, but quitters ain't one.
Making it a choice issue would be workable: something like "Complete a daily dungeon OR play 4 PvP matches" as a 4k AD reward might satisfy everyone, for instance.
...except of course the daily dungeon would still be the bloody dread vault....-_-
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We need to have a catapult throw people into pvp area from campfire after 35 seconds to prevent this.
If people are allowed to sit afk at campfire during pvp, then this system has failed.