Has been said by a few others, but fixing various things concerning the queue system is absolutely essential before installing any penalty whatsoever.
Yes but someone getting a superior attitude because he pugs and leaves low gs teammates out to dry instead of running in a pre-made was happening now. I'm calling them on that as a poor thing to do and illogical.
Random would be bad, it could end up being used for a strategic advantage. You die wait 10 secs and get ported out past mid and can take the enemy base easier lets say. All in all I see this as a convoluted solution to the main problem that safe area's are bad and are abused. Make it where there is no safe area and you don't have to come up with a complex solution.
No safe spawn area = spawn killing which means the enemy team just camping your spawn point and killing people as they spawn. A nice red aoe constantly on the campfire with a stealthed tr nearby for the easy kills and you can just keep sending them through death-spawn. That would outright destroy pvp.
Being afk in the spawn area is bad but not nearly as bad as spawning in the middle of a big red aoe with the enemy team simply locking you up and killing you as soon as you spawn. The current system prevents that, my suggestion addressed both spawn camping and afk-camping. Afk not being desirable, it is better than spawn-killing. Being teleported randomly is not optimal but it is better than afk.
It really doesn't help to put people out into the open.
Just because they are forced to leave a safe zone doesn't mean they will contribute.
There needs to be a combination of two actions IMO: an automatic queue penalty if you sit in base for more than two minutes and the option to report players who are not contributing in a losing match.
Not every report needs to be investigated but rather this should be a flag system. There should be a threshold of reports and depending both on the number of reports received as well as the frequency of reception these players should be investigated.
Reason why there should be a flag based system: PvP'ers report for the silliest things. I have frequently dealt with players who considered very good strategic actions bad and bad strategic actions good. If each report was looked into it would cause a nightmarishly large amount of reports to investigate just because some people didn't know it's okay to die or that splitting up is ideal from time to time.
Maybe just being kicked out of the match and given the "leave penalty" if afk for 3 minutes (or whatever reasonable time) would be both simple and effective.
PanzerJäger HR Hybrid Jugger Conq GF
....
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2014
That works too! Which was my point, really.
It should be reasonable to create a system which detects if a person hasn't moved anywhere, especially within the spawn area, and safely assert that while the person may not have left the party but they did technically leave the match. I don't see this as an unreasonable feature to implement to stop the most basic form of Spawn Camping/AFKing.
Then a more advanced system would have to be put into place to prevent people from griefing the match in other ways but we could literally discuss the nuances of such a system in circles for days.
That's the point. Do not leave matches. It ruins the experience for everybody else.
If I can not leave it ruins my experience. Happy now?
You have a family? a Social life?
I won't lock myself in my room at home just because YOU think it ruins everybody's experience.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
If that still happens they just need to make the penalties more draconian to prevent people from leaving. Leave three matches in 24 hours get an automatic 24 ban etc. If the penalties are draconian enough the problem will stop.
Have you ever considered that your draconian attitude might effect other players in a slightly negative way?
Just so YOU can get YOUR experience other have to be penalized? I thinkt they did not queue up to fight YOU.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
If I can not leave it ruins my experience. Happy now?
You have a family? a Social life?
I won't lock myself in my room at home just because YOU think it ruins everybody's experience.
Go back your social life than if you write it game Discussion tread.
Really annoying when someone don't get point . "exceptions do not break the rules."
If I can not leave it ruins my experience. Happy now?
You have a family? a Social life?
I won't lock myself in my room at home just because YOU think it ruins everybody's experience.
I really hope this is just hyperbole and not that you literally cannot sit down for a PvP match without needing to step away due to frequent family emergencies and urgent social calls. If your RL situation is so demanding, perhaps you should refrain from subjecting other players to it by joining and leaving constantly.
I really hope this is just hyperbole and not that you literally cannot sit down for a PvP match without needing to step away due to frequent family emergencies and urgent social calls. If your RL situation is so demanding, perhaps you should refrain from subjecting other players to it by joining and leaving constantly.
I can for 90 or 95% of my playtime sit down for an hour, but that does not mean that every time e.g. my wife needs me for 2 or 3 minutes I do not want to be expelled from NW for the next 30 minutes (24h or life long or my birth be unmade by time traveling whatever). I have a life that is happening in realtime. Sometimes it can be delayed by 1 minute or 2, sometimes not so.
I do have tine to finish a group of mobs, but that is it. AFK then for 1-5 minutes. No problem in a dungeon with the guild, but certainly in PvP as I get booted.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
Every game has rules so that you get punished if you break them. Real life? I bet it would be fun if you can freely tackle people in basketball or punch people in their faces in football or kick nuts in boxing. But no you get kicked out if you do so.
It should be reasonable to create a system which detects if a person hasn't moved anywhere, especially within the spawn area, and safely assert that while the person may not have left the party but they did technically leave the match. I don't see this as an unreasonable feature to implement to stop the most basic form of Spawn Camping/AFKing.
Then a more advanced system would have to be put into place to prevent people from griefing the match in other ways but we could literally discuss the nuances of such a system in circles for days.
Nice, the lack of imagination is very amusing in this thread, it is like pvp: just bash the others and if that does not work bash more, bash harder. Instead of trying out a simple feature like a surrender option we have arrived at discussing a whole fight analysing duty with flagging and denigrating option and if things are not going as desired then it all should become more and more draconian -- go ahead.
But maybe it works, but Neverwinter is no pvp only game and there are certainly some players around who does not want to stand all these penalties and this denigrating system; well, let us test it.
Nice, the lack of imagination is very amusing in this thread, it is like pvp: just bash the others and if that does not work bash more, bash harder. Instead of trying out a simple feature like a surrender option we have arrived at discussing a whole fight analysing duty with flagging and denigrating option and if things are not going as desired then it all should become more and more draconian -- go ahead.
But maybe it works, but Neverwinter is no pvp only game and there are certainly some players around who does not want to stand all these penalties and this denigrating system; well, let us test it.
Thank you very much. It's funny that once those individuals realize that their suggestions won't solve what's wrong with PVP they'll start crying and pointing fingers again, unable to see that they themselves have contributed to the issue a lot with postings like the ones written above.
#1 tip: make things earned from PvP useless for PvE - this gets rid of the glory gatherers
And I think it is bad advice to ask a minority (PvP enthusiasts) of a minority (PvP enthusiasts who are active on the forum) how to penaltize a majority (PvE players who do not read the forum).
If someone does not PvP on the main, or only does it for the Glory or AD, do you really expect said someone to do PvP on the test server? Do you expect them to come into this subforum?
You ask very few pissed of PvP players who do not get the PvP they desire or want, how to treat other players! A lot of players who are not even aware what is discussed here.
this^^
Seriously, first you should introduce the matchmaking system, and only then the leavers penalty. Also 30 min is way too long, not to mention affecting pve.
Nice, the lack of imagination is very amusing in this thread, it is like pvp: just bash the others and if that does not work bash more, bash harder. Instead of trying out a simple feature like a surrender option we have arrived at discussing a whole fight analysing duty with flagging and denigrating option and if things are not going as desired then it all should become more and more draconian -- go ahead.
But maybe it works, but Neverwinter is no pvp only game and there are certainly some players around who does not want to stand all these penalties and this denigrating system; well, let us test it.
I never said don't add a surrender option.
However there is a name for an individual surrender. It's called leaving.
And yeah, going AFK for minutes at a time in a PvP match is just...again, once in a while things happen. If it's consistently it's just rude to the other players. Every moment you are AFK gives the enemy team and advantage so if you can't set 10-15 minutes aside without consistent interuption it is just plain respectful to not burden other people with it.
If you pulled that in any other game it would result in more severe punishments than a thirty minute penalty. In fact if you did that in a PvP centric game it is very much a bannable offense.
There are nine other people playing in any given PvP match. Be considerate.
Can somebody explain why the first two get the penalty? You're basically forcing a team to play 4 on 5 for the remainder. That's weird.
Assuming the elo system works right 4v5 sucks but is is winnable. 3v5 really isn't. That's my take on it anyways.
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muody1337Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited February 2014
I for once will just sit at the campfire instead of feeding the other team... until you fix the matchmaking and class balance, that is. Penalizing people for leaving because of your incompetence of designing a proper mm is not going to solve anything. It'll just completely discourage people from PvPing.
If two people leave, you get to leave with no penalty.
If this happens too consistently, as charononus said, the penalties for repeat offenses would have to be addressed.
But the implementation of a matchmaking system will hopefully greatly reduce the situations where people feel justified in leaving to begin with. As such it's unlikely we'll see the frequency of leavers that we currently do between addressing the cause for a large amount of leaving and the disincentive for leaving.
But again, only the first two will be penalized and if it remains a problem further changes would have to be made to the system.
All in all if you played what if's like that, though, nothing would get fixed.
yet again you guys completely bypass the real issue. How would giving a penalty for sitting in the spawn area to someone caught in a bad situation help that person? Yes, once 2 members leave I could leave without fear of the leaving penalty but that does not solve the issue that now I wont get credit for my daily quest.
So again, I would get punished for the actions of another person. I queued up, I tried to contribute, 2 others leave, now Im left to either get repeatedly stomped with no chance to fight or leave and lose credit for my daily. Seems pretty unfair to me, removes any notion of fun and as I said, it would be punishing me for the actions of another. And trying to say harsher penalties for people who still repeatedly leave is ridiculous, the leaving problem comes from PUGing so the chance of the same person doing it often are low and once again, does nothing to address the situation I stated before.
Im actually all for leaving penalty as its something I do not do. But even with the ELO and penalty system you cannot guarantee that this situation I stated will not happen. Which is why, even though we may not like it, any form of penalty for sitting in the spawn area is wrong. The whole point of these changes are to try and make PvP more fun for everyone not just the hardcore PvPers.
Which is I why I suggested removing the Rinx daily quest and make items bought with glory/GG coins unsalvageable. It would remove any need for non PvP players to do PvP outside of just wanting to PvP.
Which is I why I suggested removing the Rinx daily quest and make items bought with glory/GG coins unsalvageable. It would remove any need for non PvP players to do PvP outside of just wanting to PvP.
Greetings, as it stands the leaver penalty should not be applied if you disconnect and are able to return to the match. Additionally, if your are vote kicked from the match; including cases where you are offline, the leaver penalty will not be applied. If you experience any abnormal or unexpected behavior please let us know, as always your feedback is appreciated.
Which is I why I suggested removing the Rinx daily quest and make items bought with glory/GG coins unsalvageable. It would remove any need for non PvP players to do PvP outside of just wanting to PvP.
i don't think limiting PvP to hardcore end-gamer PvP heavy players is where PWE wants to go with these changes, i think they want to encourage everyone to play pvp... even if it's just a few matches a day. which is why the daily rewards exist in the first place.
So again, I would get punished for the actions of another person. I queued up, I tried to contribute, 2 others leave, now Im left to either get repeatedly stomped with no chance to fight or leave and lose credit for my daily. Seems pretty unfair to me, removes any notion of fun and as I said, it would be punishing me for the actions of another. And trying to say harsher penalties for people who still repeatedly leave is ridiculous, the leaving problem comes from PUGing so the chance of the same person doing it often are low and once again, does nothing to address the situation I stated before.
Sitting in the spawn area is actually worse than leaving. When you sit in the spawn area you are exploiting a mechanic of the system so that you can get something while not you have not done the activity. It is no different than item duping in that way. If you sit in the spawn you are a part of the problem.
Sitting in the spawn area is actually worse than leaving. When you sit in the spawn area you are exploiting a mechanic of the system so that you can get something while not you have not done the activity. It is no different than item duping in that way. If you sit in the spawn you are a part of the problem.
They gain nothing if they dont get atleast 400 personal points in the match.
They gain nothing if they dont get atleast 400 personal points in the match.
Not true, had a guidie at 375 when the entire other team quit and we decided to test that about a week ago. You still get credit for the daily with less than 400 just no glory.
Quote Originally Posted by panderus View Post
New Feature
Leaver Penalty: Leaving a PVP match that is currently in progress will incur a leaver penalty for 30 minutes. During this time you may not queue for any content using the queue system. Only the first 2 players to leave a Domination match, or the first 5 players to leave a Gauntlgrym match on each team will be affected.
- Yeah finally!! i agree with that!
hopefully we have dont have more 5v3 / 5v1 or something like that lol,
I am glad that finally something is being done for pvp.
a) add afk auto kick 2-3mins (doing nothing) for example.
and a option to join during the match.
or as soon as a player leaves the match ,the remaining players gets a buff to support.(his team)
(with HP,DEF,SPEED whatever) until the match ends.
<::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
Sitting in the spawn area is actually worse than leaving. When you sit in the spawn area you are exploiting a mechanic of the system so that you can get something while not you have not done the activity. It is no different than item duping in that way. If you sit in the spawn you are a part of the problem.
Its become very clear that you cannot answer my question thus proving my point. I already know how you "feel" about people sitting in the spawn area but that wasn't the question at all. The question Im asking is how would a spawn sitting penalty be fair to someone who ends up on the short end of the stick.
As far as your whole argument about players afking to get a credit towards the rinx daily, That daily rewards 4k AD. So someone would have to waste around 40 minutes of their time to sit through 4 matches at 10 minute lengths to get all 4 credits in order to get the reward. I don't know anyone that is that stupid to waste that much time over 4k AD.
Especially considering that you can do a number of other things during that 40 minutes to make the same amount. Go do the daily foundry quest for instance, it also rewards 4k AD. Go pug CT which can be done in about 30 mins with even a bad group and use the seals to buy rings which salvage for 3k AD. Go do skirmishes which during the skirm event which gives 1k AD each time you finish. My point being is that the only reason to do PvP during the PvP event would be to get extra glory which you wont get if you never leave the spawn area so who would waste their time?
So Im giving you a personal challenge charononus. Do not reply to me again unless you can answer my question with some form of actual constructive feedback. You personal feelings towards the question are not a valid answer in any shape or form. Either you can answer the question or you cannot. So once again I ask you, How would a spawn sitting penalty be fair to a player that tried to PvP but got screwed by quitters and doesn't want to be a punching bag dinging off free points to the opposing team?
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zhaofuoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 129Bounty Hunter
edited February 2014
The bottom line here, is that if the matchmaking work as intended, the "leaver" penalty won't really matter. i would save my opinion on this once the ELO MM works, until then we can only speculate on the "effects" of this leaver penalty
Comments
Yes but someone getting a superior attitude because he pugs and leaves low gs teammates out to dry instead of running in a pre-made was happening now. I'm calling them on that as a poor thing to do and illogical.
No safe spawn area = spawn killing which means the enemy team just camping your spawn point and killing people as they spawn. A nice red aoe constantly on the campfire with a stealthed tr nearby for the easy kills and you can just keep sending them through death-spawn. That would outright destroy pvp.
Being afk in the spawn area is bad but not nearly as bad as spawning in the middle of a big red aoe with the enemy team simply locking you up and killing you as soon as you spawn. The current system prevents that, my suggestion addressed both spawn camping and afk-camping. Afk not being desirable, it is better than spawn-killing. Being teleported randomly is not optimal but it is better than afk.
Jugger Conq GF
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Maybe just being kicked out of the match and given the "leave penalty" if afk for 3 minutes (or whatever reasonable time) would be both simple and effective.
Jugger Conq GF
....
It should be reasonable to create a system which detects if a person hasn't moved anywhere, especially within the spawn area, and safely assert that while the person may not have left the party but they did technically leave the match. I don't see this as an unreasonable feature to implement to stop the most basic form of Spawn Camping/AFKing.
Then a more advanced system would have to be put into place to prevent people from griefing the match in other ways but we could literally discuss the nuances of such a system in circles for days.
You have a family? a Social life?
I won't lock myself in my room at home just because YOU think it ruins everybody's experience.
Just so YOU can get YOUR experience other have to be penalized? I thinkt they did not queue up to fight YOU.
Go back your social life than if you write it game Discussion tread.
Really annoying when someone don't get point . "exceptions do not break the rules."
Why do people camp sit?
Why to people quit?
I strongly recommend to solve these issues before even thinking to introduce any kind of penalties.
And then penalties might not be needed any more.
I really hope this is just hyperbole and not that you literally cannot sit down for a PvP match without needing to step away due to frequent family emergencies and urgent social calls. If your RL situation is so demanding, perhaps you should refrain from subjecting other players to it by joining and leaving constantly.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
I can for 90 or 95% of my playtime sit down for an hour, but that does not mean that every time e.g. my wife needs me for 2 or 3 minutes I do not want to be expelled from NW for the next 30 minutes (24h or life long or my birth be unmade by time traveling whatever). I have a life that is happening in realtime. Sometimes it can be delayed by 1 minute or 2, sometimes not so.
I do have tine to finish a group of mobs, but that is it. AFK then for 1-5 minutes. No problem in a dungeon with the guild, but certainly in PvP as I get booted.
Every game has rules so that you get punished if you break them. Real life? I bet it would be fun if you can freely tackle people in basketball or punch people in their faces in football or kick nuts in boxing. But no you get kicked out if you do so.
Nice, the lack of imagination is very amusing in this thread, it is like pvp: just bash the others and if that does not work bash more, bash harder. Instead of trying out a simple feature like a surrender option we have arrived at discussing a whole fight analysing duty with flagging and denigrating option and if things are not going as desired then it all should become more and more draconian -- go ahead.
But maybe it works, but Neverwinter is no pvp only game and there are certainly some players around who does not want to stand all these penalties and this denigrating system; well, let us test it.
Thank you very much. It's funny that once those individuals realize that their suggestions won't solve what's wrong with PVP they'll start crying and pointing fingers again, unable to see that they themselves have contributed to the issue a lot with postings like the ones written above.
this^^
Seriously, first you should introduce the matchmaking system, and only then the leavers penalty. Also 30 min is way too long, not to mention affecting pve.
That is an excellent idea and I would support it whole heartedly. It only makes sense to do so.
I never said don't add a surrender option.
However there is a name for an individual surrender. It's called leaving.
And yeah, going AFK for minutes at a time in a PvP match is just...again, once in a while things happen. If it's consistently it's just rude to the other players. Every moment you are AFK gives the enemy team and advantage so if you can't set 10-15 minutes aside without consistent interuption it is just plain respectful to not burden other people with it.
If you pulled that in any other game it would result in more severe punishments than a thirty minute penalty. In fact if you did that in a PvP centric game it is very much a bannable offense.
There are nine other people playing in any given PvP match. Be considerate.
yet again you guys completely bypass the real issue. How would giving a penalty for sitting in the spawn area to someone caught in a bad situation help that person? Yes, once 2 members leave I could leave without fear of the leaving penalty but that does not solve the issue that now I wont get credit for my daily quest.
So again, I would get punished for the actions of another person. I queued up, I tried to contribute, 2 others leave, now Im left to either get repeatedly stomped with no chance to fight or leave and lose credit for my daily. Seems pretty unfair to me, removes any notion of fun and as I said, it would be punishing me for the actions of another. And trying to say harsher penalties for people who still repeatedly leave is ridiculous, the leaving problem comes from PUGing so the chance of the same person doing it often are low and once again, does nothing to address the situation I stated before.
Im actually all for leaving penalty as its something I do not do. But even with the ELO and penalty system you cannot guarantee that this situation I stated will not happen. Which is why, even though we may not like it, any form of penalty for sitting in the spawn area is wrong. The whole point of these changes are to try and make PvP more fun for everyone not just the hardcore PvPers.
Which is I why I suggested removing the Rinx daily quest and make items bought with glory/GG coins unsalvageable. It would remove any need for non PvP players to do PvP outside of just wanting to PvP.
Artifact
Guardian Fighter Armor Set
i don't think limiting PvP to hardcore end-gamer PvP heavy players is where PWE wants to go with these changes, i think they want to encourage everyone to play pvp... even if it's just a few matches a day. which is why the daily rewards exist in the first place.
Sitting in the spawn area is actually worse than leaving. When you sit in the spawn area you are exploiting a mechanic of the system so that you can get something while not you have not done the activity. It is no different than item duping in that way. If you sit in the spawn you are a part of the problem.
Then only queue pvp if its fun to you, because you leaving mid match for ANY reason isnt fun to your team mates.
If you cant understand that, and respect the people fighting to win with you, then dont queue.
They gain nothing if they dont get atleast 400 personal points in the match.
Not true, had a guidie at 375 when the entire other team quit and we decided to test that about a week ago. You still get credit for the daily with less than 400 just no glory.
- Yeah finally!! i agree with that!
hopefully we have dont have more 5v3 / 5v1 or something like that lol,
I am glad that finally something is being done for pvp.
a) add afk auto kick 2-3mins (doing nothing) for example.
and a option to join during the match.
(with HP,DEF,SPEED whatever) until the match ends.
Its become very clear that you cannot answer my question thus proving my point. I already know how you "feel" about people sitting in the spawn area but that wasn't the question at all. The question Im asking is how would a spawn sitting penalty be fair to someone who ends up on the short end of the stick.
As far as your whole argument about players afking to get a credit towards the rinx daily, That daily rewards 4k AD. So someone would have to waste around 40 minutes of their time to sit through 4 matches at 10 minute lengths to get all 4 credits in order to get the reward. I don't know anyone that is that stupid to waste that much time over 4k AD.
Especially considering that you can do a number of other things during that 40 minutes to make the same amount. Go do the daily foundry quest for instance, it also rewards 4k AD. Go pug CT which can be done in about 30 mins with even a bad group and use the seals to buy rings which salvage for 3k AD. Go do skirmishes which during the skirm event which gives 1k AD each time you finish. My point being is that the only reason to do PvP during the PvP event would be to get extra glory which you wont get if you never leave the spawn area so who would waste their time?
So Im giving you a personal challenge charononus. Do not reply to me again unless you can answer my question with some form of actual constructive feedback. You personal feelings towards the question are not a valid answer in any shape or form. Either you can answer the question or you cannot. So once again I ask you, How would a spawn sitting penalty be fair to a player that tried to PvP but got screwed by quitters and doesn't want to be a punching bag dinging off free points to the opposing team?