I do not advocate any kind of penalty, but am really glad something is being done about quitters. About afk campers, the best solution I can think of is that ten seconds after spawning, if you are still in the spawn site, you are teleported to a random place on the map. No ramps. That way there could be no afk campers, and no one could just post up outside the spawn point preventing you from leaving it. Just stay there 10 seconds and you will be instantly teleported somewhere else on the map.
I do not advocate any kind of penalty, but am really glad something is being done about quitters. About afk campers, the best solution I can think of is that ten seconds after spawning, if you are still in the spawn site, you are teleported to a random place on the map. No ramps. That way there could be no afk campers, and no one could just post up outside the spawn point preventing you from leaving it. Just stay there 10 seconds and you will be instantly teleported somewhere else on the map.
Random would be bad, it could end up being used for a strategic advantage. You die wait 10 secs and get ported out past mid and can take the enemy base easier lets say. All in all I see this as a convoluted solution to the main problem that safe area's are bad and are abused. Make it where there is no safe area and you don't have to come up with a complex solution.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
And not only does it currently hinder their PvP experiences, but will also effect their PvE.
That's the point. Do not leave matches. It ruins the experience for everybody else.
If you could leave a match and queue for a dungeon or skirmish the penalty wouldn't be much of a penalty. There's really no excuse for leaving a match especially once a more balanced matchmaking system is put in. Don't leave. If you do then you simply can't do any group content. That's exactly how it should be.
Heck, personally I would lock you into a timeout where you can't do anything on any character. That fact they aren't preventing you from doing single player content is something to be gracious about IMO.
I do not advocate any kind of penalty, but am really glad something is being done about quitters. About afk campers, the best solution I can think of is that ten seconds after spawning, if you are still in the spawn site, you are teleported to a random place on the map. No ramps. That way there could be no afk campers, and no one could just post up outside the spawn point preventing you from leaving it. Just stay there 10 seconds and you will be instantly teleported somewhere else on the map.
Random would be bad, it could end up being used for a strategic advantage. You die wait 10 secs and get ported out past mid and can take the enemy base easier lets say. All in all I see this as a convoluted solution to the main problem that safe area's are bad and are abused. Make it where there is no safe area and you don't have to come up with a complex solution.
It really doesn't help to put people out into the open.
Just because they are forced to leave a safe zone doesn't mean they will contribute.
There needs to be a combination of two actions IMO: an automatic queue penalty if you sit in base for more than two minutes and the option to report players who are not contributing in a losing match.
Not every report needs to be investigated but rather this should be a flag system. There should be a threshold of reports and depending both on the number of reports received as well as the frequency of reception these players should be investigated.
Reason why there should be a flag based system: PvP'ers report for the silliest things. I have frequently dealt with players who considered very good strategic actions bad and bad strategic actions good. If each report was looked into it would cause a nightmarishly large amount of reports to investigate just because some people didn't know it's okay to die or that splitting up is ideal from time to time.
It really doesn't help to put people out into the open.
Just because they are forced to leave a safe zone doesn't mean they will contribute.
There needs to be a combination of two actions IMO: an automatic queue penalty if you sit in base for more than two minutes and the option to report players who are not contributing in a losing match.
You do realise that you have managed to contradict yourself within two sentences? Even if people are forced of the spawn due to some penalty it does not mean they will contribute. They will just get more pissed off.
This all has to wait for the matchmaking system, any penalties should be discussed afterwards. If the current imbalance is not fixed but penalties introduced, many people will just stop doing PvP.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2014
It is not a contradiction.
If they are in spawn it is self explanatory they are not contributing to the team thus a penalty, granted there are 4+ players remaining on the team, is automatically justified. But the option to leave should remain in their hands as pushing them off is more likely to help the other team than it will help your team.
Now if a person leaves the safe spot it is a lot trickier to measure their contributions. Thus the need for a flag system.
More or less, leave people's fates in their own hands. If you are without a doubt not contributing you get a spanking. If people consistently report that you are not contributing even though you leave the safe zone then you get a spanking anyway.
If they are in spawn it is self explanatory they are not contributing to the team thus a penalty, granted there are 4+ players remaining on the team, is automatically justified. But the option to leave should remain in their hands as pushing them off is more likely to help the other team than it will help your team.
Now if a person leaves the safe spot it is a lot trickier to measure their contributions. Thus the need for a flag system.
More or less, leave people's fates in their own hands. If you are without a doubt not contributing you get a spanking. If people consistently report that you are not contributing even though you leave the safe zone then you get a spanking anyway.
So what is intended as "not contributing"? Let's say as a CW I decide only to use Repel and Shield. Am I not contributing? As a HR I just spam Rapid Shot all the time, no encounters. Am I contributing or not? Or maybe I just ride around on my mount without engaging anyone. Shall I be flagged in all these cases? Who is the judge? If I need to try new loadouts and end up 0-30, shall I be afraid to be flagged?
This all to open to interpretation and abuse, will just make people play PvP less. It will only contribute to further Elitism and being judged continously, as it already happens with GS and the DPS numbers (which, btw, are a very bad measure of actual contribution to the team).
I still feel the penalty should be extended to all queues then. Why give PVP a special status? Leave PVE Skirmishes and/or dungeons and get punished as well. Only fair.
Also I can't emphasize enough that penalties is the worst to actually motivate people to do certain things. They'll get creative. Leaving not allowed? Camp sitting. Disallowed? Run out and /killme. Flagged? Don't fight on points or capture points. What's next? Every step further will punish more innocent.
You. Can't. Win. That. Battle.
It's better to think about why people act that way and change the system behind the behavior.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2014
All points I raised which is why I said it should be a flagging system.
A flagging system tends to work better than a report system in cases where interpretations could vary widely.
A flagging system is used to be a buffer so that not everybody is looked into over trivial matters. People who get flags below the threshold will not be reviewed even if they deserve it while people who are above the threshold, meaning possibly consistenly not contributing, will actually be looked into by a human being.
Thus if a person is having a bad day and gets really angry they could get away with refusing to contribute.
But a person who consistently refuses to contribute will get reprimanded.
And a person who just has a bad strategy or bad spec will not get reprimanded at all.
All points I raised which is why I said it should be a flagging system.
A flagging system tends to work better than a report system in cases where interpretations could vary widely.
A flagging system is used to be a buffer so that not everybody is looked into over trivial matters. People consistently are being flagged before a human being actually looks into the situation.
Thus if a person is having a bad day and gets really angry they could get away with refusing to contribute.
But a person who consistently refuses to contribute will get reprimanded.
And a person who just has a bad strategy or bad spec will not get reprimanded at all.
That's a wishful thinking. Any flagging system will be prone to rapid abuse by the players, especially in a competitive PvP environment. Fix PvP issues and no flagging will be necessary, not the other way round. We have enough rules and nitpickers in the real life, don't need more of it in a fantasy world allowing abuse and bossing around.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2014
It's a lot less wishful than you imagine.
Actually, it's how games like League of Legends handles reports. They don't even review them until it reaches a certain threshold.
So people flag you all the time. A human being looks into the reports and sees nothing wrong and you are none the wiser to it. There's literally no room for abuse, really, because a threshold can be modified. If too many people are false reporting the threshold gets upped or certain reports get their creditability reduced.
It's a much more balanced system than a standard report system for interpretational issues and a hell of a lot better than having nothing.
And a little bit of philosophy: Why do rules exist?
They aren't there for the rule breaker. They are there for everybody else.
Doesn't matter if it is real life or a fantasy game. In life we of course have John Locke's Inalienable Rights which is the foundation for many of our real life laws. Any action you do which infringes on those rights of other people will generally land you in jail.
But in games we have the fact that we are all here to have fun. If you having fun compromises other player's ability to have fun there's a decent chance you are doing something punishable.
Now of course strategies are subjective, that's not punishable. Not participating, that's infringing on the ability for other people to enjoy their time and that's where punishments come in.
Your fun compromising other player's ability to have fun? So alienating a completely inferior team should be punished then I guess.
This is me being sarcastic, but leads to the superior issue: Having fun is highly subjective. You're forcing people into what you think is fun by installing penalties for this and that. It might fit a certain playstyle but takes freedom away from everyone.
Your argument goes both ways. Folks that want to play a good, competitive match of PVP should absolutely be able to do so, but not at the cost of others.
The matchmaking system will hopefully help taking a lot of heat off the topic though and quite honestly it's hard to discuss the penalty without knowing what matchmaking will provide. But from a more general standpoint the punishment would merely be a workaround for other issues PVP has. And thus a bad idea.
Okay if the devs start implementing these penalties I can tell you how I will respond, as a casual PVE player who only sometimes does PVP, never in premades, and if my PVP pug team is getting roflstomped.
1. If there's a quitter penalty, then I'll just sit in spawn until the match is over. Because there is no point in fighting if the fight is hopeless.
2. If there's a spawn-sitting penalty (getting teleported out), then I'll get tossed out I suppose, and then you all can just kill me. I won't fight back. What is the point? In fact I'll even make it easier for you: I'll take off my armor to make it easier for you to kill me. It will pass the time quicker.
3. If there's a flagging system, then I'll just ride around on my mount and touch a base every once in a while, or toss a potshot at someone, so as not to trigger a flag.
And then when the match is over, I will never ever ever queue for PVP again. Enjoy your long queue wait times.
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degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
1- "Coward's Shame" Debuff if you leave match before end. 30 Min cant queen again.
2- Gear score quenes 10 k GS- (Trainers) 10 k + (Wariors) and 15k+ (Legions) it will be 3x quene table and people will click.
Thank you for not queuing. This is the ideal end result of the penalty system. There are plenty of players on NW and wait times will not be long.
If the core PvP issues are not addressed properly you will loose people pretty fast and end up with a Circle-Jerk club. Guess that's what some people want, don't count me in though, I want balanced matches where skill counts not facing some Ubertools running around and smashing everything including the map masonry.
rlrobrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2014
I think it is a really, really terrible decision.
Besides all the obvious problems (disconnects, crashes, Internet problems, etc), it will cause the queue system of PvP to be as useless as the epic dungeon queue: nowadays I almost never PvP with a premade - I always pug. Mostly it is because I think it is unfair to the other players to play against a premade. All the times I get into a game, however, the first thing I do is to inspect my team mates and I leave immediately if I see 2 or more players with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear, even before the match starts.
Why do I leave? Because it is impossible to carry a bad team in PvP (2 or more players with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear) and I don't have time to waste because utimately the looser gets almost nothing. *If* I could get enough glory based on my individual performance, I would most certanly not leave, but not like it is today.
If the 30 min penalty is implemented, I'd never queue for PvP again - I'll always form a premade so I will never be teamed with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> geared players.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2014
Such a broken record syndrome going on with the Elo Matchmaking.
It's being implemented. Saying that you are justified in leaving because you end up with bad teammates or against impossible to beat enemies is an issue now. It is far less likely once a true matchmaking system is implemented.
Discrediting the implementation due to the current matchmaking system is just unrealistic. You can argue we don't know how effective the new one will be yet but using your current experience with matchmaking is a bit moot.
1- "Coward's Shame" Debuff if you leave match before end. 30 Min cant queen again.
2- Gear score quenes 10 k GS- (Trainers) 10 k + (Wariors) and 15k+ (Legions) it will be 3x quene table and people will click.
You realize you can win pvp against a better geared opponent right? It's domination not death match. Use some teamwork and coordination. NW has a built in voice chat, and a party chat. Split up go to their base and mid while keeping your own safe so that just your own base is ticking and the others are contested. People that are complaining about getting stomped just don't want to put in the effort to try to win. They want to either stomp themselves or they leave. That's the problem.
Besides all the obvious problems (disconnects, crashes, Internet problems, etc), it will cause the queue system of PvP to be as useless as the epic dungeon queue: nowadays I almost never PvP with a premade - I always pug. Mostly it is because I think it is unfair to the other players to play against a premade. All the times I get into a game, however, the first thing I do is to inspect my team mates and I leave immediately if I see 2 or more players with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear, even before the match starts.
Why do I leave? Because it is impossible to carry a bad team in PvP (2 or more players with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear) and I don't have time to waste because utimately the looser gets almost nothing. *If* I could get enough glory based on my individual performance, I would most certanly not leave, but not like it is today.
If the 30 min penalty is implemented, I'd never queue for PvP again - I'll always form a premade so I will never be teamed with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> geared players.
So leaving a team with 4 players is more fair to them and the other team than playing as a premade? I so don't get that logic at all, it seems rather broken to me.
If they are in spawn it is self explanatory they are not contributing to the team thus a penalty, granted there are 4+ players remaining on the team, is automatically justified. But the option to leave should remain in their hands as pushing them off is more likely to help the other team than it will help your team.
Now if a person leaves the safe spot it is a lot trickier to measure their contributions. Thus the need for a flag system.
More or less, leave people's fates in their own hands. If you are without a doubt not contributing you get a spanking. If people consistently report that you are not contributing even though you leave the safe zone then you get a spanking anyway.
OK so yet again I try throwing out a valid yet consistently ignored situation. So I queue into a pug match, lets say midway through the match my team is getting steamrolled. So 2 members decide to eat the penalty and leave. Now its 3v5 in a match where we were already getting steamrolled. No penalties after the first 2 quitters so another team mate quits. Now its 2v5....it just keeps getting better. So at this point Im tired of getting killed non stop without getting a shot off, the other team is spawn camping, there is no fun to be had for me at this point nor a reason for me to leave the spawn area. But if I quit the match then I don't get the count towards my daily quest. So now you want to penalize me for refusing to be cannon fodder in a match I tried to do a good job in. Not to mention the added gift that with your flagging suggestion the other team could flag me for it.
OK so yet again I try throwing out a valid yet consistently ignored situation. So I queue into a pug match, lets say midway through the match my team is getting steamrolled. So 2 members decide to eat the penalty and leave. Now its 3v5 in a match where we were already getting steamrolled. No penalties after the first 2 quitters so another team mate quits. Now its 2v5....it just keeps getting better. So at this point Im tired of getting killed non stop without getting a shot off, the other team is spawn camping, there is no fun to be had for me at this point nor a reason for me to leave the spawn area. But if I quit the match then I don't get the count towards my daily quest. So now you want to penalize me for refusing to be cannon fodder in a match I tried to do a good job in. Not to mention the added gift that with your flagging suggestion the other team could flag me for it.
Explain to me how this is helpful to me?
If that still happens they just need to make the penalties more draconian to prevent people from leaving. Leave three matches in 24 hours get an automatic 24 ban etc. If the penalties are draconian enough the problem will stop.
Besides all the obvious problems (disconnects, crashes, Internet problems, etc), it will cause the queue system of PvP to be as useless as the epic dungeon queue: nowadays I almost never PvP with a premade - I always pug. Mostly it is because I think it is unfair to the other players to play against a premade. All the times I get into a game, however, the first thing I do is to inspect my team mates and I leave immediately if I see 2 or more players with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear, even before the match starts.
Why do I leave? Because it is impossible to carry a bad team in PvP (2 or more players with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear) and I don't have time to waste because utimately the looser gets almost nothing. *If* I could get enough glory based on my individual performance, I would most certanly not leave, but not like it is today.
If the 30 min penalty is implemented, I'd never queue for PvP again - I'll always form a premade so I will never be teamed with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> geared players.
And these are excellent reasons supporting the need for a deserter penalty. If I took my ball and went home every time I popped into a PvP match and saw 7-10k GS players on my side, it'd be ridiculous.
It's not just about the best return on Glory for time spent or even about having a remotely fair match; people have a reasonable expectation of actually playing a match when they queue, and it's inconsiderate of everyone's time when other people decide that they have better things to do or that they can't be bothered to group with new/casual players.
I could sympathize more with the attitude of not wanting to carry undergeared players if PvP had actual consequences in this game, but it's not exactly serious business in NW. Besides, when their Elo matchmaking is up and running, we will hopefully have fewer instances of Daily pvpers being mixed in with regular PvPers.
New Feature
Leaver Penalty: Leaving a PVP match that is currently in progress will incur a leaver penalty for 30 minutes. During this time you may not queue for any content using the queue system. Only the first 2 players to leave a Domination match, or the first 5 players to leave a Gauntlgrym match on each team will be affected.
If two people leave, you get to leave with no penalty.
If this happens too consistently, as charononus said, the penalties for repeat offenses would have to be addressed.
But the implementation of a matchmaking system will hopefully greatly reduce the situations where people feel justified in leaving to begin with. As such it's unlikely we'll see the frequency of leavers that we currently do between addressing the cause for a large amount of leaving and the disincentive for leaving.
But again, only the first two will be penalized and if it remains a problem further changes would have to be made to the system.
All in all if you played what if's like that, though, nothing would get fixed.
So leaving a team with 4 players is more fair to them and the other team than playing as a premade? I so don't get that logic at all, it seems rather broken to me.
Yes, because since I leave before the match even starts another player can join or at least they can leave too without loosing time.
Yes, because since I leave before the match even starts another player can join or at least they can leave too without loosing time.
Except that the system usually bugs out. At least for me when I have solo queued and it stuck me in a match that was in progress it's also auto-booted me from the match, leaving the team with only 4 players still.
If that still happens they just need to make the penalties more draconian to prevent people from leaving. Leave three matches in 24 hours get an automatic 24 ban etc. If the penalties are draconian enough the problem will stop.
And if that doesn't work as well just ban everybody for a year? If penalties don't solve the problem, penalties might just not be the way to go.
Comments
Jugger Conq GF
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Random would be bad, it could end up being used for a strategic advantage. You die wait 10 secs and get ported out past mid and can take the enemy base easier lets say. All in all I see this as a convoluted solution to the main problem that safe area's are bad and are abused. Make it where there is no safe area and you don't have to come up with a complex solution.
That's the point. Do not leave matches. It ruins the experience for everybody else.
If you could leave a match and queue for a dungeon or skirmish the penalty wouldn't be much of a penalty. There's really no excuse for leaving a match especially once a more balanced matchmaking system is put in. Don't leave. If you do then you simply can't do any group content. That's exactly how it should be.
Heck, personally I would lock you into a timeout where you can't do anything on any character. That fact they aren't preventing you from doing single player content is something to be gracious about IMO.
It really doesn't help to put people out into the open.
Just because they are forced to leave a safe zone doesn't mean they will contribute.
There needs to be a combination of two actions IMO: an automatic queue penalty if you sit in base for more than two minutes and the option to report players who are not contributing in a losing match.
Not every report needs to be investigated but rather this should be a flag system. There should be a threshold of reports and depending both on the number of reports received as well as the frequency of reception these players should be investigated.
Reason why there should be a flag based system: PvP'ers report for the silliest things. I have frequently dealt with players who considered very good strategic actions bad and bad strategic actions good. If each report was looked into it would cause a nightmarishly large amount of reports to investigate just because some people didn't know it's okay to die or that splitting up is ideal from time to time.
You do realise that you have managed to contradict yourself within two sentences? Even if people are forced of the spawn due to some penalty it does not mean they will contribute. They will just get more pissed off.
This all has to wait for the matchmaking system, any penalties should be discussed afterwards. If the current imbalance is not fixed but penalties introduced, many people will just stop doing PvP.
If they are in spawn it is self explanatory they are not contributing to the team thus a penalty, granted there are 4+ players remaining on the team, is automatically justified. But the option to leave should remain in their hands as pushing them off is more likely to help the other team than it will help your team.
Now if a person leaves the safe spot it is a lot trickier to measure their contributions. Thus the need for a flag system.
More or less, leave people's fates in their own hands. If you are without a doubt not contributing you get a spanking. If people consistently report that you are not contributing even though you leave the safe zone then you get a spanking anyway.
So what is intended as "not contributing"? Let's say as a CW I decide only to use Repel and Shield. Am I not contributing? As a HR I just spam Rapid Shot all the time, no encounters. Am I contributing or not? Or maybe I just ride around on my mount without engaging anyone. Shall I be flagged in all these cases? Who is the judge? If I need to try new loadouts and end up 0-30, shall I be afraid to be flagged?
This all to open to interpretation and abuse, will just make people play PvP less. It will only contribute to further Elitism and being judged continously, as it already happens with GS and the DPS numbers (which, btw, are a very bad measure of actual contribution to the team).
Also I can't emphasize enough that penalties is the worst to actually motivate people to do certain things. They'll get creative. Leaving not allowed? Camp sitting. Disallowed? Run out and /killme. Flagged? Don't fight on points or capture points. What's next? Every step further will punish more innocent.
You. Can't. Win. That. Battle.
It's better to think about why people act that way and change the system behind the behavior.
A flagging system tends to work better than a report system in cases where interpretations could vary widely.
A flagging system is used to be a buffer so that not everybody is looked into over trivial matters. People who get flags below the threshold will not be reviewed even if they deserve it while people who are above the threshold, meaning possibly consistenly not contributing, will actually be looked into by a human being.
Thus if a person is having a bad day and gets really angry they could get away with refusing to contribute.
But a person who consistently refuses to contribute will get reprimanded.
And a person who just has a bad strategy or bad spec will not get reprimanded at all.
That's a wishful thinking. Any flagging system will be prone to rapid abuse by the players, especially in a competitive PvP environment. Fix PvP issues and no flagging will be necessary, not the other way round. We have enough rules and nitpickers in the real life, don't need more of it in a fantasy world allowing abuse and bossing around.
Actually, it's how games like League of Legends handles reports. They don't even review them until it reaches a certain threshold.
So people flag you all the time. A human being looks into the reports and sees nothing wrong and you are none the wiser to it. There's literally no room for abuse, really, because a threshold can be modified. If too many people are false reporting the threshold gets upped or certain reports get their creditability reduced.
It's a much more balanced system than a standard report system for interpretational issues and a hell of a lot better than having nothing.
And a little bit of philosophy: Why do rules exist?
They aren't there for the rule breaker. They are there for everybody else.
Doesn't matter if it is real life or a fantasy game. In life we of course have John Locke's Inalienable Rights which is the foundation for many of our real life laws. Any action you do which infringes on those rights of other people will generally land you in jail.
But in games we have the fact that we are all here to have fun. If you having fun compromises other player's ability to have fun there's a decent chance you are doing something punishable.
Now of course strategies are subjective, that's not punishable. Not participating, that's infringing on the ability for other people to enjoy their time and that's where punishments come in.
This is me being sarcastic, but leads to the superior issue: Having fun is highly subjective. You're forcing people into what you think is fun by installing penalties for this and that. It might fit a certain playstyle but takes freedom away from everyone.
Your argument goes both ways. Folks that want to play a good, competitive match of PVP should absolutely be able to do so, but not at the cost of others.
The matchmaking system will hopefully help taking a lot of heat off the topic though and quite honestly it's hard to discuss the penalty without knowing what matchmaking will provide. But from a more general standpoint the punishment would merely be a workaround for other issues PVP has. And thus a bad idea.
1. If there's a quitter penalty, then I'll just sit in spawn until the match is over. Because there is no point in fighting if the fight is hopeless.
2. If there's a spawn-sitting penalty (getting teleported out), then I'll get tossed out I suppose, and then you all can just kill me. I won't fight back. What is the point? In fact I'll even make it easier for you: I'll take off my armor to make it easier for you to kill me. It will pass the time quicker.
3. If there's a flagging system, then I'll just ride around on my mount and touch a base every once in a while, or toss a potshot at someone, so as not to trigger a flag.
And then when the match is over, I will never ever ever queue for PVP again. Enjoy your long queue wait times.
Thank you for not queuing. This is the ideal end result of the penalty system. There are plenty of players on NW and wait times will not be long.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
1- "Coward's Shame" Debuff if you leave match before end. 30 Min cant queen again.
2- Gear score quenes 10 k GS- (Trainers) 10 k + (Wariors) and 15k+ (Legions) it will be 3x quene table and people will click.
If the core PvP issues are not addressed properly you will loose people pretty fast and end up with a Circle-Jerk club. Guess that's what some people want, don't count me in though, I want balanced matches where skill counts not facing some Ubertools running around and smashing everything including the map masonry.
Besides all the obvious problems (disconnects, crashes, Internet problems, etc), it will cause the queue system of PvP to be as useless as the epic dungeon queue: nowadays I almost never PvP with a premade - I always pug. Mostly it is because I think it is unfair to the other players to play against a premade. All the times I get into a game, however, the first thing I do is to inspect my team mates and I leave immediately if I see 2 or more players with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear, even before the match starts.
Why do I leave? Because it is impossible to carry a bad team in PvP (2 or more players with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gear) and I don't have time to waste because utimately the looser gets almost nothing. *If* I could get enough glory based on my individual performance, I would most certanly not leave, but not like it is today.
If the 30 min penalty is implemented, I'd never queue for PvP again - I'll always form a premade so I will never be teamed with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> geared players.
It's being implemented. Saying that you are justified in leaving because you end up with bad teammates or against impossible to beat enemies is an issue now. It is far less likely once a true matchmaking system is implemented.
Discrediting the implementation due to the current matchmaking system is just unrealistic. You can argue we don't know how effective the new one will be yet but using your current experience with matchmaking is a bit moot.
OK so yet again I try throwing out a valid yet consistently ignored situation. So I queue into a pug match, lets say midway through the match my team is getting steamrolled. So 2 members decide to eat the penalty and leave. Now its 3v5 in a match where we were already getting steamrolled. No penalties after the first 2 quitters so another team mate quits. Now its 2v5....it just keeps getting better. So at this point Im tired of getting killed non stop without getting a shot off, the other team is spawn camping, there is no fun to be had for me at this point nor a reason for me to leave the spawn area. But if I quit the match then I don't get the count towards my daily quest. So now you want to penalize me for refusing to be cannon fodder in a match I tried to do a good job in. Not to mention the added gift that with your flagging suggestion the other team could flag me for it.
Explain to me how this is helpful to me?
And these are excellent reasons supporting the need for a deserter penalty. If I took my ball and went home every time I popped into a PvP match and saw 7-10k GS players on my side, it'd be ridiculous.
It's not just about the best return on Glory for time spent or even about having a remotely fair match; people have a reasonable expectation of actually playing a match when they queue, and it's inconsiderate of everyone's time when other people decide that they have better things to do or that they can't be bothered to group with new/casual players.
I could sympathize more with the attitude of not wanting to carry undergeared players if PvP had actual consequences in this game, but it's not exactly serious business in NW. Besides, when their Elo matchmaking is up and running, we will hopefully have fewer instances of Daily pvpers being mixed in with regular PvPers.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
If two people leave, you get to leave with no penalty.
If this happens too consistently, as charononus said, the penalties for repeat offenses would have to be addressed.
But the implementation of a matchmaking system will hopefully greatly reduce the situations where people feel justified in leaving to begin with. As such it's unlikely we'll see the frequency of leavers that we currently do between addressing the cause for a large amount of leaving and the disincentive for leaving.
But again, only the first two will be penalized and if it remains a problem further changes would have to be made to the system.
All in all if you played what if's like that, though, nothing would get fixed.
Yes, because since I leave before the match even starts another player can join or at least they can leave too without loosing time.
Except that the system usually bugs out. At least for me when I have solo queued and it stuck me in a match that was in progress it's also auto-booted me from the match, leaving the team with only 4 players still.
If someone change gear inside map they will be kicked out by system and they will get "Coward's Shame" Debuff 30 minute can't quene PvP.
1-leaving because you end up with bad teammates
2-against impossible to beat enemies
Gear Score PvP fixes all. Ofcourse low Gs can beat high Gs team but it will make all clear.
And if that doesn't work as well just ban everybody for a year? If penalties don't solve the problem, penalties might just not be the way to go.