I just installed ARC myself today. The code to redeem the goodies did not work. (Jan 30th)
. . .You have to redeem the key through ARC itself, not the web site. In ARC, on the top right, left click your name where it says "Hi <name>" and then choose Redeem Key from the drop down. Enter the code in the pop-up field that appears.
Optionally, you can opt-in to share basic information about your machine with us. This data is used to track performance and to help us optimize responsiveness, download speeds, download reliability across different hardware, etc. However, this information is only gathered if you explicitly choose to opt-in to this feature.
What anonymous data is collected from the built-in browser?
If a player opts-in to submit performance data, then we'll be gathering information on how fast pages load, etc., though this is only to track performance and only if you as a user wish to partake in the program...
In regard to collecting data, we understand that not all players are interested in submitting anonymous performance data from their machines, and that's totally OK. There is no requirement to opt-in to this feature in any way, and nothing is "gated" for users who do not elect to participate.
Hope this helps!
Thank you for actually detailing WHAT is being sent when we opt-out of the client. I had serious doubts about this program when I opted-out and was still seeing data collected and sent.
The ONLY thing that still bugs me about the data sent is the fact that our ISP IP Address, MAC and some machine code I cannot translate are still being sent in the header packets of each transmission (several programs I run show this). Is there any way you can mask that better? Reproducible using wireshark packet capture & snort.
"It is said that idle hands are the Devil's tools: Idle geek hands, however, came up with gunpowder, nuclear weapons, and toilet plungers." -Illiad
Thank you for actually detailing WHAT is being sent when we opt-out of the client. I had serious doubts about this program when I opted-out and was still seeing data collected and sent.
The ONLY thing that still bugs me about the data sent is the fact that our ISP IP Address, MAC and some machine code I cannot translate are still being sent in the header packets of each transmission (several programs I run show this). Is there any way you can mask that better? Reproducible using wireshark packet capture & snort.
I don't use Arc, and wouldn't be one to normally defend it, but I'm curious what your concern is regarding the information included in header packets.
If you connect through a router, the router is aware of your machine's IP, MAC, and your ISP IP. Both your IP and the ISP's IP are public. Even if you only ever connect through secured socket, your router or modem is more of a security hole than sending unencrypted packet headers with IP/MAC addresses.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't be using an encryption layer, or that it's not valid feedback, I'm just curious when I hear about these concerns since it seems like advocating for security through obscurity.
the fact that our ISP IP Address, MAC and some machine code I cannot translate are still being sent in the header packets of each transmission
I can't speak with authority on this, so this is speculation based on years of experience working with integrated systems and observations about their security protocols regarding authentication, but I expect that that data is being used to support their session handling and maintenance across disparate nodes within a cluster. It's most probably also used to support the notice you receive if you authenticate from a different machine. Each machine is 'registered' such that if you authenticate from an unknown location, or your IP changes, you are gated to a confirmation page where you have to enter a confirmation key which is emailed to your accounts address.
Again, just speculation, but in all honesty, the data you're describing is almost universally data mined. Any HTML request you send includes it, minus the MAC address. Though many browser plugins will capture that as well.
My only problem with Arc is that I'd wager huge sums of money that it eventually becomes a requirement, like Origin.
I have no interest in using Arc but -currently- it's no big deal -- I installed it, got promos on the three Cryptic games, and will now avoid using it until the next promotion.
If I'm ever forced to use it I will move on to other games.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
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dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
My only problem with Arc is that I'd wager huge sums of money that it eventually becomes a requirement, like Origin.
I have no interest in using Arc but -currently- it's no big deal -- I installed it, got promos on the three Cryptic games, and will now avoid using it until the next promotion.
If I'm ever forced to use it I will move on to other games.
They have already said the eventual plan is to replace the current launcher for all their games with Arc so that it will do all the patching. Steam users however will be able to keep the current launcher.
You do realize that most developers/publishers are going this route. And at the rate they are going this route soon you won't find any that don't do this. I installed Steam and I don't like it as I find it is more of a pain.
My only problem with Arc is that I'd wager huge sums of money that it eventually becomes a requirement, like Origin.
I have no interest in using Arc but -currently- it's no big deal -- I installed it, got promos on the three Cryptic games, and will now avoid using it until the next promotion.
If I'm ever forced to use it I will move on to other games.
This is all but officially announced. However, the Steam-launched version will always be around and possibly other shell versions, too. I'd hate to see you or anyone else make a rash decision to abandon an awesome game over the way it was launched (in this case: ARC which is only a few hundred kilobytes of a shell with massive benefits for players of ALL PWE games).
Obviously if you feel that strongly then you must do what you must do. But before doing it may I highly recommend that you at least download it and give it a go first, so you can decide for yourself with intimate and deeply personal authentic information first-hand on what the experience is, rather than relying on hearsay rumors? Doing *that* would be what I call a "rash decision".
ARC is not for everyone, that's a given. Neither is Steam or even Neverwinter or any other PWE game for that matter. But before you give it your authentic thumbs-up or thumbs-down: at least experience it for yourself.
I might absolutely HATE something and tell you not to touch it with a ten-foot pole! But how do you know we have the same tastes? What I hate might be something you love, and vice-versa. But that's the point.
once arc is fully implemented, you won't have the neverwinter loader/patcher. arc will take care of that. i currently have arc installed and i also have steam installed. i don't have any system issues with either of those programs co-existing. it's not popping up advertisements or causing lag. it's not telling me that i need to try out this PWE game or that PWE game. i couldn't tell you why people complain about it other than the fact that it's new, it's change and people don't like change. PWE is pretty excited about arc because it's going to open a lot of doors for them as a game publisher. so whether you choose to use arc or steam, it really doesn't matter. if you don't like arc and will never use arc, that's fine. but there's really no need for anyone to come here to announce just that. as with any feedback you provide on these forums, as long as you give constructive feedback, you can explain why you don't like arc. if you are having issues with it, there are ways for you to provide that feedback to the arc team.
You sir, are a sheep. Obeying.
What is wrong with giving feedback about a program you dont care about, that it serves no purpose to most people and it should remain optional?
It is still bloatware, it is useless unless you play multiple PWE games. Period.
And no amount of "free items" is ever gonna get me to use this program. I wont fall for that.
So outside from wasting rigs resources and getting unnecessary news about the game(in which you already receive news upon joining) and about games you dont care about, what purpose does it hold really?
And if they ever force this down on our throats just because we need to patch the game, then iam outta here to greener pastures and bloatfree games >.>
Oh, I have tried Arc, to get promo stuff on the three Cryptic games.
But after unlocks and so on, I promptly shut it off.
It's not horrible, I just have zero interest in it and don't want to be shunted away from stuff I'm happy with (Steam) just because yet another game company wants to reinvent the wheel.
Part of the issue is that I think Cryptic's QA and dev process is shoddy. I don't want to rely on some multi launcher of theirs.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Steam is useless also but you don't see people complaining about that. battlenet app is useless also but people aren't complaining about that.
bloatware (uncountable)
(computing) Software that is overpacked with features and therefore slow or unwieldy; software that is inefficiently designed and occupies an excessive amount of memory or disk space.
ARC does not meet that definition but to me Steam does meet that
Oh, I have tried Arc, to get promo stuff on the three Cryptic games.
But after unlocks and so on, I promptly shut it off.
It's not horrible, I just have zero interest in it and don't want to be shunted away from stuff I'm happy with (Steam) just because yet another game company wants to reinvent the wheel.
Part of the issue is that I think Cryptic's QA and dev process is shoddy. I don't want to rely on some multi launcher of theirs.
It isn't a multi launcher. When the time comes it will be a single launcher
What is wrong with giving feedback about a program you dont care about, that it serves no purpose to most people and it should remain optional?
It is still bloatware, it is useless unless you play multiple PWE games. Period.
And no amount of "free items" is ever gonna get me to use this program. I wont fall for that.
So outside from wasting rigs resources and getting unnecessary news about the game(in which you already receive news upon joining) and about games you dont care about, what purpose does it hold really?
And if they ever force this down on our throats just because we need to patch the game, then iam outta here to greener pastures and bloatfree games >.>
i don't think i said that you can't come here and give your feedback. feedback is welcomed here on the forums as long as its presented in a respectful and constructive way. popping a comment in this thread to make false accusations about arc is neither respectful or constructive because it's purpose isn't to provide feedback to help the progression of it, it's purpose is to sabotage the progress of arc or PWE in general by getting other people to think it's something they don't want to install.
as of today, it isn't a requirement. if it becomes a requirement, people have the option of using steam instead of arc. making that into some dramatic deal breaker is entirely your choice. arc isn't scary-ware and it's being implemented by the same company that you trusted enough to install at least one of their games. your assumptions lack facts and calling me a sheep isn't going to change that.
Why are you so fine to run programs to run programs? Doesnt that sound silly to you?
popping a comment in this thread to make false accusations about arc is neither respectful or constructive because it's purpose isn't to provide feedback to help the progression of it, it's purpose is to sabotage the progress of arc or PWE in general by getting other people to think it's something they don't want to install.
Its always funny when mod says "false accusations" without correcting them in any way, and ofcourse participating in the conversation only by judging is also a classic.
I read that quote as: "Help us conquer all these other hundred launchers by giving us good feedback without saying anything bad! No? Then go away!"
But I also dislike the fact, that i have to start using steam eventually if i wanna play Neverwinter. Sigh, if only there could be a better solution. Such as clicking a shortcut on the desktop and immediately being in the game...
I guess its launcher generation now...
I do apologize for calling u a sheep tho :P those horns in the picture mixed me up.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited January 2014
There is absolutely no problem with providing negative feedback as long as it is constructive. A well thought out objection can be more useful than a million people espousing how great something is. Outline what aspects of the program you don't like - be clear and concise about your points. Explain how you feel that feature X or Y could be improved. Provide details about, for instance, any unusually high memory utilization the launcher exhibits, etc.
Also, the moderators are here to, well, police things on the forum - they don't need to provide detailed accounts as to why they took an action. You agree to certain rules of conduct when you visit these forums, and discussing moderation is against said rules...
To me, if you enjoy the game, then a minor nuisance like switching to a new launcher, shouldn't be a problem.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Figured I would give Arc a try, but an error that says, "Arc has encountered an error while updating. Please try again.", is preventing from experiencing it.
Posted in Tech Support forums so hopefully I gte a speedy reply. Is there a time limit to the free gifts? I don't want to miss out on them because of this error.
Its always funny when mod says "false accusations" without correcting them in any way, and ofcourse participating in the conversation only by judging is also a classic.
An accusation is always false until you can cite your reliable and reputable sources. Until then, ummm no. Also, you state you have not, and will not install the ARC app (this is my impression based on your comments thus far, so it is a paraphrase, if you did not actually state this, I am sorry for my misinformed proclamation). Therefore you are not providing "feedback", rather you are providing unfounded biased *opinion* based on your preconceived (right or wrong) ideas. Hence, your contribution toward meaningful feedback isn't (a contribution or meaningful).
As for genuine feedback, you will have installed the ARC, used it, then provide your honest (or not) opion of it, and why you like it or dislike it so it can be *improved*. But, meh.
I read that quote as: "Help us conquer all these other hundred launchers by giving us good feedback without saying anything bad! No? Then go away!"
How you read something someone else has written is up to you. You are the one injecting intention of that author with your own ideas and words as the author did not say those things, nor did they give the context or impression that what you perceive was their intent. It sounds like a personal problem to me. I am hopeful I am mistaken in that, er... presumption.
But I also dislike the fact, that i have to start using steam eventually if i wanna play NWM. Sigh, if only there could be a better solution. Such as clicking a shortcut on the desktop and immediatly being in the game...
I guess its launcher generation now...
I agree with this part of your statement. However, rather than just wishing there were a better solution, perhaps you could suggest one? Without the suggestion of an alternate solution then all comments appear to be "just whining". I'm not saying they are, but that they appear to be.
As for it being a launcher generation, I concur. Unfortunately it is what it is.
I do apologize for calling u a sheep tho fluffy as they are.
This is adult of you (seriously, meant as a compliment). I've overstepped on occasion myself in forums and it isn't always easy to throw apologies around.
As to ARC itself: I think it's an awesome addition to PWE/Cryptic games and I only intend to speak for myself. If it's not for you then that's a fair opinion. But at least if you are going to hold that opinion, have a genuine reason to hold that opinion because if you don't, you are only being dishonest with yourself in the long run. And this is true regarding any and all opinions and any and all subject matter we each encounter in our daily lives. Would you not agree?
I am absolutely loving it how all the "Hate Apple, Windoze Rulz" crowd are all now sporting iMacs and iPhones these days, only because they actually *tried* the things. It's okay to dislike something, but if you are going to dislike something be sure it's your own genuine dislike, not someone else's that you are piggy-backing onto for no reason other that to be with the 'cool' crowd.
As to ARC itself: I think it's an awesome addition to PWE/Cryptic games and I only intend to speak for myself. If it's not for you then that's a fair opinion. But at least if you are going to hold that opinion, have a genuine reason to hold that opinion because if you don't, you are only being dishonest with yourself in the long run. And this is true regarding any and all opinions and any and all subject matter we each encounter in our daily lives. Would you not agree?
I agree. I can't speak for the other poster, or anyone else for that matter, but I'd be happy to share my feedback as to why I do not have interest in Arc as yet.
First, let me open with the fact that I use Steam. I'm not a Steam fanboy, and I don't have a particularly evangelical bent, but it serves it's purpose for me fine. If I wasn't using Steam, I still wouldn't use Arc.
The primary concern, or disinterest, stems from the motivation for it to exist. I find much of the marketing for it to be disingenuous. The purpose of Arc, unarguably, is to serve as a marketing vehicle for PWE. Which is fine, I don't mind that they're doing it, but I'd rather not install a billboard engine on my machine that serves no direct need of mine.
What Arc is, to me, is an attempt to silo their player base. Siloing is basically what Microsoft got in trouble for when they bundled the Internet Explorer browser in their OS. They created a disincentive for their users to use anything else. Arc, while perfectly useful if you intend to play nothing but PWE games, offers nothing to the consumer, but a lot to the publisher.
The reason that I don't think that Steam and Arc are comparable, is that Steam offers a relatively open marketplace with room and space for any publisher who wants to participate. Arc and Origin, on the other hand, are publisher proprietary silos with which to serve publisher specific content. They want to create a user base who only plays THEIR games, and no one else's.
I understand why, from a business perspective. I also understand that they are within their rights to do so, and that many people don't mind and aren't going to notice or care.
So I guess that my issue with Arc is, primarily, a philosophical one, rather than an existential one. I don't fear it, I don't have a strong opinion on the craftsmanship of it, and I don't wish it or anyone who uses it ill. I simply don't wish to support it, since I feel that it's descriptive of a business practice with which I do not agree.
I'm willing to entertain the notion that I could be wrong in this, but I feel that the burden of proof lies with PWE. It's not even their fault that that's the case, but given the direction that so many other publishers have gone, or tried to go, in this regard, it is the sad truth.
If that changes, if they branch out and invite other publishers into their marketplace in a fair manner, then I may reconsider my misgivings.
As it stands, those are my concerns for Arc. I wish everyone involved in the project, and everyone who chooses to use it, the best of luck and happy gaming. But, at least for now, I'm avoiding further use or support of Arc as a portal.
An accusation is always false until you can cite your reliable and reputable sources. Until then, ummm no. Also, you state you have not, and will not install the ARC app (this is my impression based on your comments thus far, so it is a paraphrase, if you did not actually state this, I am sorry for my misinformed proclamation).
Everyone has to install it unless you installed Neverwinter through unofficial means, so yes. Even i had to install it once. And had my... experiences with it. And i did have problems with it in beginning due to launcher not updating, it crashed few times and i did manage to open up arc interface during PvP fight -_- Shift+tab for NW, who wouldve thunkd it... Not really gamebreaking but infuriating nonetheless. The other functions of Arc ive only glanced quickly, the few that there were and i just didnt see anything that blew my mind. Or which havent been done already. Then it went to recycle bin.
How you read something someone else has written is up to you. You are the one injecting intention of that author with your own ideas and words as the author did not say those things, nor did they give the context or impression that what you perceive was their intent. It sounds like a personal problem to me. I am hopeful I am mistaken in that, er... presumption.
Yes, thats how i read it and its typically whats goes on in forums like these.
Where opinions only matter to a size. And if it isnt positive, its negative by default.
I agree with this part of your statement. However, rather than just wishing there were a better solution, perhaps you could suggest one? Without the suggestion of an alternate solution then all comments appear to be "just whining". I'm not saying they are, but that they appear to be.
As for it being a launcher generation, I concur. Unfortunately it is what it is.
That wish was heavy sarcasm about the good old days when there werent launchers to launch launchers :P And honestly, thinking of something good to add to the things i dislike... that. is. weird. I dont even like Steam.
The only thing that would probably make me stomach Arc is if they made the interface minimalistic, or two different launchers. Regular one and a minimalistic one without all the extra junk. Or if you could change the interface enough.
As to ARC itself: I think it's an awesome addition to PWE/Cryptic games and I only intend to speak for myself. If it's not for you then that's a fair opinion. But at least if you are going to hold that opinion, have a genuine reason to hold that opinion because if you don't, you are only being dishonest with yourself in the long run. And this is true regarding any and all opinions and any and all subject matter we each encounter in our daily lives. Would you not agree?
True dat, everyone has one and you cant agree with everyone. Iam sure those ppl who play the... other PWE games are happy with it. My reason i dislike Arc is due to it adding zero benefit for me, extra hassle and eventually when the launcher grows, and they add features. Mark my words, it will become heavy. Iam not against small launchers, but huge windows with information getting thrown in my face that i dont need, such as microtransaction marketing, it becomes annoying once uve seen enough of it.
Also, it is a trend these days which needs to be stomped on. Like in PvP with 1v5.
You can change the default setting key that opens the ARC interface while in game. Click on settings and go to in-game setting. You set what ever key you want. I have this key set to open ARC, ] That way that key is far from my combat keys
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dardoveMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That wish was heavy sarcasm about the good old days when there werent launchers to launch launchers :P And honestly, thinking of something good to add to the things i dislike... that. is. weird. I dont even like Steam.
Arc is still in beta. One of the key features of Arc that isn't in place yet is that it will work as the launcher for all PWE games, and the current launchers will be phased out (except for games on Steam where it will still use the old launcher for those games).
I have given the ARC launcher a 3 day trial and honestly do not see any added value for me as a customer. It certainly does not do anything harmful, but it does not give any capabilities that I did not have before. The stand alone Launcher gives me as much information as the portal homepage. It does not make accessing the game any easier then the current Launcher. It does save me 2 clicks and a log in for accessing the Forum, but then again I don't go to the Forum every time I play, and I haven't necessarily played when I am reading the Forum so that is kind of a wash for me. As for the other options it currently offers they hold no value for me as I only play Neverwinter and I have no interest in the other PWE properties, nor do I need yet another social network platform.
casmelak does make a number of valid points in his post (#143) that I can agree with as well.
Now if I could use the ARC portal to also access the SCA Gateway that might be a useful feature for me.
Will it bother me if it becomes the sole access point? No. Will bother it me if it ceases to exist? No.
I have given the ARC launcher a 3 day trial and honestly do not see any added value for me as a customer.
And that is my main issue with Arc as well.
It doesn't do anything worthwhile (to me), and to be honest I can't think of anything worthwhile (to me) it could do that the current launcher doesn't do already beyond offering massive discounts (50-90%). Massive discounts (along with an extensive library) is the main reason I tolerate Steam as a service platform.
I have said it in a previous post. Eventually once all the kinks are worked out. ARC will be a single launcher access to the game and the old neverwinter launcher will be no more. So when you click on the play button for NW in ARC that it will launch the game, it won't launch a second launcher. I wouldn't be surprised if they add Gateway to the ARC platform for STO and NW as those are the 2 that I know that have it. Not sure about CO. I have sent it in as feedback to add it.
I agree. I can't speak for the other poster, or anyone else for that matter, but I'd be happy to share my feedback as to why I do not have interest in Arc as yet.
First, let me open with the fact that I use Steam. I'm not a Steam fanboy, and I don't have a particularly evangelical bent, but it serves it's purpose for me fine. If I wasn't using Steam, I still wouldn't use Arc.
The primary concern, or disinterest, stems from the motivation for it to exist. I find much of the marketing for it to be disingenuous. The purpose of Arc, unarguably, is to serve as a marketing vehicle for PWE. Which is fine, I don't mind that they're doing it, but I'd rather not install a billboard engine on my machine that serves no direct need of mine.
What Arc is, to me, is an attempt to silo their player base. Siloing is basically what Microsoft got in trouble for when they bundled the Internet Explorer browser in their OS. They created a disincentive for their users to use anything else. Arc, while perfectly useful if you intend to play nothing but PWE games, offers nothing to the consumer, but a lot to the publisher.
The reason that I don't think that Steam and Arc are comparable, is that Steam offers a relatively open marketplace with room and space for any publisher who wants to participate. Arc and Origin, on the other hand, are publisher proprietary silos with which to serve publisher specific content. They want to create a user base who only plays THEIR games, and no one else's.
I understand why, from a business perspective. I also understand that they are within their rights to do so, and that many people don't mind and aren't going to notice or care.
So I guess that my issue with Arc is, primarily, a philosophical one, rather than an existential one. I don't fear it, I don't have a strong opinion on the craftsmanship of it, and I don't wish it or anyone who uses it ill. I simply don't wish to support it, since I feel that it's descriptive of a business practice with which I do not agree.
I'm willing to entertain the notion that I could be wrong in this, but I feel that the burden of proof lies with PWE. It's not even their fault that that's the case, but given the direction that so many other publishers have gone, or tried to go, in this regard, it is the sad truth.
If that changes, if they branch out and invite other publishers into their marketplace in a fair manner, then I may reconsider my misgivings.
As it stands, those are my concerns for Arc. I wish everyone involved in the project, and everyone who chooses to use it, the best of luck and happy gaming. But, at least for now, I'm avoiding further use or support of Arc as a portal.
This is (to me) a genuine and meaningful feedback. Though your points has been at the back of my head you have made them clear and well-described respectful way (meaning that I don't feel like you're attempting to offend ME for actually like ARC a lot) - and for this my respect for you and your perspective is well-preserved.
I cannot say I disagree with your points. They are excellent points and likely true as you have described them. From my own perspective, I see these same points being made against (or for) Google, FaceBook, Linked-In and so many other companies. And this is why these 'negatives' are not a "deal breaker" for me, because it is really, at the end of it all, the status-quo.
Companies have been training the populace for decades now (Example: fast-food restaurants have trained you to give them your money, then go stand to the side like cattle to the slaughter and wait around uncomfortably for the product you've already paid for; they have your money already so you're not all that important to them anymore, it's about DPS: raking-in as many Dollars-Per-Second as possible.)
So I figure: why the hell not? At least I'm enjoying ARC a lot. And, admittedly, I have yet to find a nonCryptic (nonPWE) MMO that I really enjoy. So ARC suits me very cozy and comfy. and I recognize I may not be the average player in this regard.
My reason i dislike Arc is due to it adding zero benefit for me, extra hassle and eventually when the launcher grows, and they add features. Mark my words, it will become heavy. Iam not against small launchers, but huge windows with information getting thrown in my face that i dont need, such as microtransaction marketing, it becomes annoying once uve seen enough of it.
Also, it is a trend these days which needs to be stomped on. Like in PvP with 1v5.
Just few cents more to the pile.
Now this I would call a very fair statement. (as with much of that post, even though I still disagree with some parts of it.)
Comments
Thats generally how I feel about Arc as a whole.
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Thank you for actually detailing WHAT is being sent when we opt-out of the client. I had serious doubts about this program when I opted-out and was still seeing data collected and sent.
The ONLY thing that still bugs me about the data sent is the fact that our ISP IP Address, MAC and some machine code I cannot translate are still being sent in the header packets of each transmission (several programs I run show this). Is there any way you can mask that better? Reproducible using wireshark packet capture & snort.
I don't use Arc, and wouldn't be one to normally defend it, but I'm curious what your concern is regarding the information included in header packets.
If you connect through a router, the router is aware of your machine's IP, MAC, and your ISP IP. Both your IP and the ISP's IP are public. Even if you only ever connect through secured socket, your router or modem is more of a security hole than sending unencrypted packet headers with IP/MAC addresses.
I'm not saying that they shouldn't be using an encryption layer, or that it's not valid feedback, I'm just curious when I hear about these concerns since it seems like advocating for security through obscurity.
I can't speak with authority on this, so this is speculation based on years of experience working with integrated systems and observations about their security protocols regarding authentication, but I expect that that data is being used to support their session handling and maintenance across disparate nodes within a cluster. It's most probably also used to support the notice you receive if you authenticate from a different machine. Each machine is 'registered' such that if you authenticate from an unknown location, or your IP changes, you are gated to a confirmation page where you have to enter a confirmation key which is emailed to your accounts address.
Again, just speculation, but in all honesty, the data you're describing is almost universally data mined. Any HTML request you send includes it, minus the MAC address. Though many browser plugins will capture that as well.
I have no interest in using Arc but -currently- it's no big deal -- I installed it, got promos on the three Cryptic games, and will now avoid using it until the next promotion.
If I'm ever forced to use it I will move on to other games.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
They have already said the eventual plan is to replace the current launcher for all their games with Arc so that it will do all the patching. Steam users however will be able to keep the current launcher.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
This is all but officially announced. However, the Steam-launched version will always be around and possibly other shell versions, too. I'd hate to see you or anyone else make a rash decision to abandon an awesome game over the way it was launched (in this case: ARC which is only a few hundred kilobytes of a shell with massive benefits for players of ALL PWE games).
Obviously if you feel that strongly then you must do what you must do. But before doing it may I highly recommend that you at least download it and give it a go first, so you can decide for yourself with intimate and deeply personal authentic information first-hand on what the experience is, rather than relying on hearsay rumors? Doing *that* would be what I call a "rash decision".
ARC is not for everyone, that's a given. Neither is Steam or even Neverwinter or any other PWE game for that matter. But before you give it your authentic thumbs-up or thumbs-down: at least experience it for yourself.
I might absolutely HATE something and tell you not to touch it with a ten-foot pole! But how do you know we have the same tastes? What I hate might be something you love, and vice-versa. But that's the point.
You sir, are a sheep. Obeying.
What is wrong with giving feedback about a program you dont care about, that it serves no purpose to most people and it should remain optional?
It is still bloatware, it is useless unless you play multiple PWE games. Period.
And no amount of "free items" is ever gonna get me to use this program. I wont fall for that.
So outside from wasting rigs resources and getting unnecessary news about the game(in which you already receive news upon joining) and about games you dont care about, what purpose does it hold really?
And if they ever force this down on our throats just because we need to patch the game, then iam outta here to greener pastures and bloatfree games >.>
But after unlocks and so on, I promptly shut it off.
It's not horrible, I just have zero interest in it and don't want to be shunted away from stuff I'm happy with (Steam) just because yet another game company wants to reinvent the wheel.
Part of the issue is that I think Cryptic's QA and dev process is shoddy. I don't want to rely on some multi launcher of theirs.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
bloatware (uncountable)
(computing) Software that is overpacked with features and therefore slow or unwieldy; software that is inefficiently designed and occupies an excessive amount of memory or disk space.
ARC does not meet that definition but to me Steam does meet that
It isn't a multi launcher. When the time comes it will be a single launcher
i don't think i said that you can't come here and give your feedback. feedback is welcomed here on the forums as long as its presented in a respectful and constructive way. popping a comment in this thread to make false accusations about arc is neither respectful or constructive because it's purpose isn't to provide feedback to help the progression of it, it's purpose is to sabotage the progress of arc or PWE in general by getting other people to think it's something they don't want to install.
as of today, it isn't a requirement. if it becomes a requirement, people have the option of using steam instead of arc. making that into some dramatic deal breaker is entirely your choice. arc isn't scary-ware and it's being implemented by the same company that you trusted enough to install at least one of their games. your assumptions lack facts and calling me a sheep isn't going to change that.
Its always funny when mod says "false accusations" without correcting them in any way, and ofcourse participating in the conversation only by judging is also a classic.
I read that quote as: "Help us conquer all these other hundred launchers by giving us good feedback without saying anything bad! No? Then go away!"
But I also dislike the fact, that i have to start using steam eventually if i wanna play Neverwinter. Sigh, if only there could be a better solution. Such as clicking a shortcut on the desktop and immediately being in the game...
I guess its launcher generation now...
I do apologize for calling u a sheep tho :P those horns in the picture mixed me up.
Also, the moderators are here to, well, police things on the forum - they don't need to provide detailed accounts as to why they took an action. You agree to certain rules of conduct when you visit these forums, and discussing moderation is against said rules...
To me, if you enjoy the game, then a minor nuisance like switching to a new launcher, shouldn't be a problem.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Posted in Tech Support forums so hopefully I gte a speedy reply. Is there a time limit to the free gifts? I don't want to miss out on them because of this error.
An accusation is always false until you can cite your reliable and reputable sources. Until then, ummm no. Also, you state you have not, and will not install the ARC app (this is my impression based on your comments thus far, so it is a paraphrase, if you did not actually state this, I am sorry for my misinformed proclamation). Therefore you are not providing "feedback", rather you are providing unfounded biased *opinion* based on your preconceived (right or wrong) ideas. Hence, your contribution toward meaningful feedback isn't (a contribution or meaningful).
As for genuine feedback, you will have installed the ARC, used it, then provide your honest (or not) opion of it, and why you like it or dislike it so it can be *improved*. But, meh.
How you read something someone else has written is up to you. You are the one injecting intention of that author with your own ideas and words as the author did not say those things, nor did they give the context or impression that what you perceive was their intent. It sounds like a personal problem to me. I am hopeful I am mistaken in that, er... presumption.
I agree with this part of your statement. However, rather than just wishing there were a better solution, perhaps you could suggest one? Without the suggestion of an alternate solution then all comments appear to be "just whining". I'm not saying they are, but that they appear to be.
As for it being a launcher generation, I concur. Unfortunately it is what it is.
This is adult of you (seriously, meant as a compliment). I've overstepped on occasion myself in forums and it isn't always easy to throw apologies around.
As to ARC itself: I think it's an awesome addition to PWE/Cryptic games and I only intend to speak for myself. If it's not for you then that's a fair opinion. But at least if you are going to hold that opinion, have a genuine reason to hold that opinion because if you don't, you are only being dishonest with yourself in the long run. And this is true regarding any and all opinions and any and all subject matter we each encounter in our daily lives. Would you not agree?
I am absolutely loving it how all the "Hate Apple, Windoze Rulz" crowd are all now sporting iMacs and iPhones these days, only because they actually *tried* the things. It's okay to dislike something, but if you are going to dislike something be sure it's your own genuine dislike, not someone else's that you are piggy-backing onto for no reason other that to be with the 'cool' crowd.
I agree. I can't speak for the other poster, or anyone else for that matter, but I'd be happy to share my feedback as to why I do not have interest in Arc as yet.
First, let me open with the fact that I use Steam. I'm not a Steam fanboy, and I don't have a particularly evangelical bent, but it serves it's purpose for me fine. If I wasn't using Steam, I still wouldn't use Arc.
The primary concern, or disinterest, stems from the motivation for it to exist. I find much of the marketing for it to be disingenuous. The purpose of Arc, unarguably, is to serve as a marketing vehicle for PWE. Which is fine, I don't mind that they're doing it, but I'd rather not install a billboard engine on my machine that serves no direct need of mine.
What Arc is, to me, is an attempt to silo their player base. Siloing is basically what Microsoft got in trouble for when they bundled the Internet Explorer browser in their OS. They created a disincentive for their users to use anything else. Arc, while perfectly useful if you intend to play nothing but PWE games, offers nothing to the consumer, but a lot to the publisher.
The reason that I don't think that Steam and Arc are comparable, is that Steam offers a relatively open marketplace with room and space for any publisher who wants to participate. Arc and Origin, on the other hand, are publisher proprietary silos with which to serve publisher specific content. They want to create a user base who only plays THEIR games, and no one else's.
I understand why, from a business perspective. I also understand that they are within their rights to do so, and that many people don't mind and aren't going to notice or care.
So I guess that my issue with Arc is, primarily, a philosophical one, rather than an existential one. I don't fear it, I don't have a strong opinion on the craftsmanship of it, and I don't wish it or anyone who uses it ill. I simply don't wish to support it, since I feel that it's descriptive of a business practice with which I do not agree.
I'm willing to entertain the notion that I could be wrong in this, but I feel that the burden of proof lies with PWE. It's not even their fault that that's the case, but given the direction that so many other publishers have gone, or tried to go, in this regard, it is the sad truth.
If that changes, if they branch out and invite other publishers into their marketplace in a fair manner, then I may reconsider my misgivings.
As it stands, those are my concerns for Arc. I wish everyone involved in the project, and everyone who chooses to use it, the best of luck and happy gaming. But, at least for now, I'm avoiding further use or support of Arc as a portal.
Yes, thats how i read it and its typically whats goes on in forums like these.
Where opinions only matter to a size. And if it isnt positive, its negative by default.
That wish was heavy sarcasm about the good old days when there werent launchers to launch launchers :P And honestly, thinking of something good to add to the things i dislike... that. is. weird. I dont even like Steam.
The only thing that would probably make me stomach Arc is if they made the interface minimalistic, or two different launchers. Regular one and a minimalistic one without all the extra junk. Or if you could change the interface enough.
True dat, everyone has one and you cant agree with everyone. Iam sure those ppl who play the... other PWE games are happy with it. My reason i dislike Arc is due to it adding zero benefit for me, extra hassle and eventually when the launcher grows, and they add features. Mark my words, it will become heavy. Iam not against small launchers, but huge windows with information getting thrown in my face that i dont need, such as microtransaction marketing, it becomes annoying once uve seen enough of it.
Also, it is a trend these days which needs to be stomped on. Like in PvP with 1v5.
Just few cents more to the pile.
Arc is still in beta. One of the key features of Arc that isn't in place yet is that it will work as the launcher for all PWE games, and the current launchers will be phased out (except for games on Steam where it will still use the old launcher for those games).
casmelak does make a number of valid points in his post (#143) that I can agree with as well.
Now if I could use the ARC portal to also access the SCA Gateway that might be a useful feature for me.
Will it bother me if it becomes the sole access point? No. Will bother it me if it ceases to exist? No.
It doesn't do anything worthwhile (to me), and to be honest I can't think of anything worthwhile (to me) it could do that the current launcher doesn't do already beyond offering massive discounts (50-90%). Massive discounts (along with an extensive library) is the main reason I tolerate Steam as a service platform.
This is (to me) a genuine and meaningful feedback. Though your points has been at the back of my head you have made them clear and well-described respectful way (meaning that I don't feel like you're attempting to offend ME for actually like ARC a lot) - and for this my respect for you and your perspective is well-preserved.
I cannot say I disagree with your points. They are excellent points and likely true as you have described them. From my own perspective, I see these same points being made against (or for) Google, FaceBook, Linked-In and so many other companies. And this is why these 'negatives' are not a "deal breaker" for me, because it is really, at the end of it all, the status-quo.
Companies have been training the populace for decades now (Example: fast-food restaurants have trained you to give them your money, then go stand to the side like cattle to the slaughter and wait around uncomfortably for the product you've already paid for; they have your money already so you're not all that important to them anymore, it's about DPS: raking-in as many Dollars-Per-Second as possible.)
So I figure: why the hell not? At least I'm enjoying ARC a lot. And, admittedly, I have yet to find a nonCryptic (nonPWE) MMO that I really enjoy. So ARC suits me very cozy and comfy. and I recognize I may not be the average player in this regard.
Now this I would call a very fair statement. (as with much of that post, even though I still disagree with some parts of it.)