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PvP Leavers Feedback Thread
zouldryn
Member Posts: 96
Every game is a total blow out.someone always leaves the match.
Only about 1 in 10 games are even fun.
5 vs 4 or less is boring.
Its also boring for premades to fight pugs. especially 5 premades vs 4 or less pugs.
People quit as soon as they see even a partial premade,and its boring for both sides.
I consiter the 60th lvl PVP Domintaion part of Never Winter BROKEN.
This is just giving the game a bad rep.and making pvp players leave the game.
Either fix it or remove it until it is fixed.
Suggestions:
1.Make it so new players can join the game at any time after match starts.
2.Add a random team que.
Any one else have suggestion how to fix this?
Only about 1 in 10 games are even fun.
5 vs 4 or less is boring.
Its also boring for premades to fight pugs. especially 5 premades vs 4 or less pugs.
People quit as soon as they see even a partial premade,and its boring for both sides.
I consiter the 60th lvl PVP Domintaion part of Never Winter BROKEN.
This is just giving the game a bad rep.and making pvp players leave the game.
Either fix it or remove it until it is fixed.
Suggestions:
1.Make it so new players can join the game at any time after match starts.
2.Add a random team que.
Any one else have suggestion how to fix this?
Post edited by zouldryn on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
It's been like this since BETA and got worse when they removed incentive for PvP. (Changed all items to BoP, can't be vendor for gold & less Glory.) Since those changes on MOD 1 PvP turned into 2 minute matches and players leave.
First realize that some of those people are not rage quitting, but instead are being disconnected.
The 'fix' for this is to play as hard as you can no matter what!
Last night I had a match where the score was red 991, blue 450. Blue won the match red 996 blue 1000!
Fight on!
First of all, learn your class before going PvP. PvE spec is not going to work well in PvP. You can easily get purple PvP gear saving glory while PvPing from lvl 1 to lvl 60. If your char is PvE focused and you want to PvP, build a second set with PvP glory armor and some health/ regeneration. Stay with your Group if you're not confident about your strenght and play as backup, don't go on the frontline.
Don't quit if you see the enemies are stronger. try to build up a strategy to get around. Domination is about capping points, not Killing. Kiting 2-3 enemies around the map even if you can't kill them but just run, is a good strategy. Many "powerplayers" are just bloodlusting rabid dogs. Make them chase you far from the points to let your team take advantage of it. If you see you're losing but you can fight, try at least to defend the base point.
If it's really one sided and you just get slaughtered with no chance to fight back, stay in your base and see if you can arrange some 1v1 at least.
But at least for the first 5 minutes try to fight, don't quit right away. Winning is not everything. After all, even if you get less glory, what's the problem? The best thing you get is PvP stuff to salvage for some rough AD, and losing a match will not slow you down that much.
Only times i agree with quitting are when you get to face a full, organized premade.
Now, while i understand if guildies want to play together, i don't see why you've to go pug with a full premade.
If you just want to play with friends, at least divide into 2 groups and go random. Or go queue solo, you may end up against each Others, which can be much more fun.
If, instead, you're one of these pathetic guilds that go premade vs pug just for easy win and facerolling random newbies (and quit if you get beaten by the pug. Yes, it happened. And it was a known guild with a mythological beast in its name. I'm talking to you. You're pathetic. if you go premade vs pug, have at least the guts to stay there if you get your *** kicked), then you deserve to have the enemies quit and leave you there alone.
I see lots of premades, more than usual, during PvP events. So i can only guess many guilds just go premade vs pugs to farm glory easily.
You are guessing wrong. Most premades don't even card about the glory, and in addition if the match ends up the way it ends most of the times you get 0 points.
They queue up because they want to one-shot people or pray for the 1% chance that another premade would be in the other side to give them a run for their money.
it is not possible to have a normal pug match anymore.
In 9 out of 10 full pug vs. full pug matches, one team starts leaving before the score hits 200 for one of the teams (usually at a score of 200:100).
People are leaving when there's still a good chance to turn things around.
Even when I just solo queue without enchantments and all 10 players have gear scores of <10k. When one team starts leading for >80 points, the other team starts leaving. It's become normal since everyone does it.
People that leave an active PvP match need a punishment of 1 - 6 hours of timeout, not being able to queue up for PvP: Domination again.
"What about those who disconnect?"
I disconnect a lot! But I would prefer sitting out for an hour once in a while, but have actually some PvP that is not premade vs. premade (btw, even some premades enjoy leaving an active match once in a while :mad: ).
If you disconnect, restart your game, it's one thing. But why is there a direct way to leave the match in-game (just click "Leave Party") and get away with it anyway? I don't understand this. There is no vote kick in PvP, but people are allowed to leave and basically ruin the fun for 10 players by just one move. And then immediately queue up again, and leave, and queue up again, etc.
I could name at least 15 people that do this all day. Queue up, leave, queue up again. When you see them in one of the teams, you already know: this PvP match is over. This player will leave once the score hits 200.
Please do something! At least put a punishment on "directly" using the "Leave Party" option!
After a PROPER matchmaking system, yes.
But as long as newbies can be thrown together with people that can repeatedly one-shot them, but not only that, also spawn-camp them and make fun of them...
... they have the right to leave, because this is a game, and when it seizes to be fun and becomes only a frustration, there's no point in continuing to play, and it is time to search for fun again.
There's also another side to this, for example I don't wanna play with a team that went all 4 at home, or when I'm with people in blues&greens and the others are PvPers, and the match is OBVIOUSLY lost, I ask for 1 vs 1, yet all I get is either "OK, let's 1 vs 1", then I get mobbed, or I'm ignored and if I drop down I'm 5 vs 1 like there's some glory&honor to kill somebody like this.
So why should I stay?
My time is precious.
15 minutes is what WoW does. That is plenty.
I still think punishment for leaving is the wrong way to go. Fix the matchmaking to make games more viable and fun to play, with rewards worth having, and people wont leave.
A matchmaking system that matches people on ratings to help even up the teams, and a WORKING system that allows new players to join the game and fill in for people that leave. This would work better than a negative reinforcement criteria.
Also, we need a **** premade vs. premade queue. I don't know what would take so long to program this. My GOD.
Just use the one we have now for premades it works.plus you can form partial premades.
We need a a random queue were you can not team up is all.
This is just rephrasing what I said. We need two separate queues, one for premade teams or 3+ players, one for solo queue or 2 grouped max.
I'd say he's got a point, especially since the PvP artifact came on the market. Yes, high-powered PvP centric guilds don't really care much about Glory, but there are a lot of players out there who haven't earned enough Glory for the artifact yet. Seems to me I've been running into a higher percentage of premade groups during the Glory Events.
Pugs and Premades don't have fun playing each other.
With 2 queues more premades will start grouping for competitive fights.
It will inspire more team play.
Plus pugs will stay knowing they arnt facing a premade.
Everyone will have more fun,and the game will generate more PVPrs. Win Win!!!
Who cares about premades? I am talking about leavers in pug matches!!!
5 pugs vs. 5 pugs! When the score is 200:100, people start leaving. Leaving has become part of the game. It's not about premades anymore!!!
Premades are the ultimate version of the problem. That said you don't need to have it be a premade for it to happen. When your team is in blue's with say rank 4 to 5's and you're facing another team with T2 gear and rank 7 to 10's with perfects and soulforges, you have zero chance to win and will just get killed repeatedly. I don't think anyone thinks this is fun, and if this is your situation no amount of skill on your part will get you through. This is not fun.
So if you enact a deserter debuff what will happen?
The same match imbalance will occur, but instead of leaving people will just sit in their spawn half afk to avoid being booted, so that the match will end faster.
You can not fix this problem with the gear imbalance and the paywall/grindwall (you can pay or you can grind for a long time for the same result) in this game. PvP will always be horribly imbalanced. It's not worth the effort to try to fix it.
So let them sit at the campfire and enjoy not playing the game. While they could still choose not to participate, they wouldn't be rewarded by being able to leave matches and pop immediately into new ones, hoping for better odds.
Module 3 really needs to have new PvP queues, maps, and something to prevent a player who leaves a match from joining a new one immediately. PvP balance discussions aside, chronic leaving is a serious issue. Many players don't even appear to try; they'll drop party in the first minute if the fight for 2 isn't a complete faceroll. This is more harmful to the game's culture than some players having better stuff than others.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
How does a player sitting at the spawn fix the problem? You've exchanged one problem for another and angered the people that leave when it's imbalanced because they are now having less fun. Angry people don't spend money.
Problem isn't solved and even more people are angry with the potential to spend less money.
There is no part of this idea that is a win for Cryptic.
edit*
Lets say they move to a gs and ranking system for queues. Let's say they make it bug proof too for the sake of argument to where people aren't queueing in low gear then gear swapping for easy wins.
Queue times now shoot up, players get upset about that, they get angry, they spend less money, Cryptic once again loses.
I really don't see anyway for Cryptic to win.
The best description of messing with pvp as a developer is imo
- perfect vorpal <insert class> one shot you 2-3 times in a row without any chance for you to respond (see Impact Shots, GF prone combos, Icy Rays etc.)
- player X tried to kill sent and couldn't bother it, then it died
- player X tried to deal with perma, perma killed it without player X seeing it
There are quite a few cheese situations like above, which make a lot of newer players quit. In the end, we still come down to matchmaking, where newbs should play newbs and be satisfied, and pros should play pros.
As soon as there are big imbalances in this system, the leavers will become common.
NWO has the most leavers I've seen in any PvP game, so to me it shows how badly designed and imbalanced PvP is.
Leaving is a symptom, the cause is bad design.
People are already quite angry. I think the numerous threads on this same topic are proof of that.
Players can sit in the campfire right now if they like; there is nothing to prevent them from doing so. I've seen it happen quite a bit. What they can also do now that they shouldn't be able to is leave their match and immediately join a fresh one. They should not be rewarded for this behavior.
Something else PvP needs is a surrender vote that kicks in after X minutes of play. There are no perfect solutions, but it's pretty hard to do worse than the current situation.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
You have a good point about imbalance, but I would also suggest that leavers are a problem because the game makes it easy and rewarding to leave matches, not just because of design flaws.
I'm a big advocate for more PvP queues because of issues like those you describe. TRs, for example, can be positively rage-inducing for new players to fight. I remember my first few times in PvP on my CW, in my cute little Focal Magi set with rank 4 enchantments, dying horribly to TRs. Not only was my gear poor for PvP, I had NO idea how TRs worked. No clue about ITC, the limitations of Stealth, etc. It wasn't until a bit later, when I did some reading and made my own lvl 60 TR did I really get it.
Long story short: yes to better matchmaking options.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
"Rhetorical you" noted, but yes, I would be happier if they all sat in the campfire. At the very least I would be happier that they had to choose to stop playing for X minutes rather than dumping me and the rest of the team AND being able to start their next match that much sooner.
Cryptic seriously can't make it worse than it is; I would even argue that it's quite possible that the players who are the most concerned with this leaving epidemic are the ones most likely to deprive the system of cash, not the players who want to keep leaving without penalty. It's not too much to ask that players not be able to queue again until their original match has ended; other games impose up to 30 minute deserter debuffs for leaving a game in progress. Level a modest deserter debuff, improve matchmaking, and you have some possible progress.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
1) A gs split queue system
2) A ranking queue system
3) A system where everyone's gear becomes the same.
Options 1 and 2 have the same problem. It spreads players out. This means that queue times will get longer, NW is a small mmo we don't have a large playerbase, and can't support this option. As queue times get longer, less people queue, leading to longer times. This leaves Cryptic in no better of a place as they have lots of unhappy players and unhappy players don't spend money.
Option 3 will anger everyone that got gear and paid for it in either money or time. Their work one way or another is now invalidated. They are very unhappy and less likely to keep playing or spend money. Cryptic loses.
Cryptic can't win here, no matter what they do. The only way to win this game for them is not to play.
A short tutorial, a minimum gear score to even queue, and a proper matching system are three things that should be firmly in place before implementing penalties for leaving.
The need for a pvp tutorial, boggle-worthy though it may seem, is the only way I can think of to ensure cross-linguistic understanding of basic terminology and strategy. Without it, most solo-queue matches begin with someone saying "4 go mid," after which three people go to 1, one person afks, and one person leaves immediately.
Writing this was an exercise in civility I am not generally known for.
If you're in a premade, steamrolling pugs and they leave, it's normal! But if I want to enjoy some pug matches, I wanna be able to do so! I just come from a match (5 pugs vs. 5 pugs) where I headed directly to the enemy base and killed 2 pugs there. Unfortunately, the other 3 enemy players cleared 2 since my whole team went to our point. The score was 80:10 for the other team, but we had all the chances to win, and one player in my team (too bad you cannot call out names, blacklist style) already left… which pushed the others into leaving and left me 1v5. I also had to leave since the other team didn't respond to 1v1 or 1v2. After I queued up again, the previously mentioned leaver ended up in the enemy team, and again left immediately on 100:50. I haven't had a pug match without leavers in months!
You can always try to justify what's happening, but the extent of leaving in PvP is unacceptable! People don't even try to play well. We once pugged in a partial premade (3 guildies + 2 pugs) with green armor, green weapon, no rings/belt/enchantments. The players don't even know how the PvP system works, where the points come from, etc. They go in, see the bar going the "wrong" way -> leave. Just because there might be a logical explanation for how it started (premades steamrolling pugs), it does not make it right! Especially not in every full pug match where teams are even!
A little info on the side:
There was a game called GunZ Online. It existed for over 10 years and died about a year ago. This game was completely dominated by hackers and you could NOT play it without hacks. 9 out of 10 people injected hack dlls into the game in order to enjoy it. Why? Because everyone did. When two people turned their God Mode off in order to enjoy a duel, they needed to have friends guarding them with one shot hacks ready in order to protect them from incoming hackers.
I feel like leaving becomes part of the PvP game in Neverwinter. It is not something annoying anymore that some ******bags or "weak" players do once in a while. It's become part of the actual game and needs to be stopped!
+1
Also glory grinders will leave if the match isn't lopsided in their favor. Perfectly legitimate because you try to be as efficient as possible.
my last battle 20:800 and all leaft battle i will every time leave battle when 1 player kill 5 from my team in 10 sec
That's the difference gear and build makes.
As someone who spend 80% of his PVP pugging and only play PVP since Sep. I can tell u I have seen many 12k-14k player play like **** in PVP. They simply can't play, it has nothing to do with gear. Vice versa, if you have skill you can make up the gear difference to a certain degree depending on actual cases.