The state of PvP is incredibly sad and depressing.
I have 2 60's now, a CW and a DC. I have yet to have a match on either of them that stays 5v5 for longer than 2 minutes. This is not an exaggeration or fabrication. This is the state of the game.
You have one side that is apparently filled with a premade/partial premade or just people with ridiculous gear vs maybe 1 well geared player or just random pugs and they get 3 capped within 45 seconds and people bail.
Then you either get spawn point farmed for zero glory, or you get some nice folk who just trade caps with you which really is just cheating but what are you going to do? I felt like I was playing SWTOR again.
PvP needs help, bad. Module 3 should be 80% PvP fixes if they want to grow this player base at all.
Father McGruder - Scrub geared DPS DC - I kick HAMSTER for the Lord!
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
The state of PvP is incredibly sad and depressing.
I have 2 60's now, a CW and a DC. I have yet to have a match on either of them that stays 5v5 for longer than 2 minutes. This is not an exaggeration or fabrication. This is the state of the game.
You have one side that is apparently filled with a premade/partial premade or just people with ridiculous gear vs maybe 1 well geared player or just random pugs and they get 3 capped within 45 seconds and people bail.
Then you either get spawn point farmed for zero glory, or you get some nice folk who just trade caps with you which really is just cheating but what are you going to do? I felt like I was playing SWTOR again.
PvP needs help, bad. Module 3 should be 80% PvP fixes if they want to grow this player base at all.
Not to be off-topic but imo when your team is getting pwned and it is obvious your gonna lose, cap as much as possible. Contest and cap. If you are on their base node and it is 3/4th blue and here they come, just run away to another node. And kill *** any of them as possible. Look for the low health ones who are running away and kill them. When win is not possible, go for as many you points as possible. To me that is a lot more fun than quitting or just getting crushed trying to use some otherwise viable strategy.
Not the worst, but still a problem in random party Domination games. People who are leaving or going AFK after couple of deaths. Could it be possible to add timer to rejoin specific game e.g. Domination, if player leaves the match?
Also, GS matching is not working, or never was implemented. I've seen 2k GS people in 40+ games! (And 3k in 50+ don't know which are worse)
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
edited January 2014
I saw a 4K GS TR in 10-19 pvp...... if there needed to be a gear score matching then this person wouldn't be able to pvp in 10-19 as most people have a GS of 500-800.
Also, GS matching is not working, or never was implemented. I've seen 2k GS people in 40+ games! (And 3k in 50+ don't know which are worse)
Not implemented and hope it will never be without some SERIOUS thinking and testing. Locking your gear after entering a match would be a terrible idea. That leaves queuing naked, and equipping your gear when already in possible.
Hello, i am not sure if i am choose forum right, sorry if i do a mistake >>
About thread, pvp hardly need something like that e.g. "u CANT join any pvp arenas for 20 min after u leaved arena battle", pvp leavers become too annoying with each day.
Adding some more types of pvp battles will be also a good improvment to the game, just most simple of them e.g. Flag catch, or few arenas 2v2 3v3 with, u know, hardcore mode, where u have only one life and 3-4 rounds(cuz pvp fights in nwn kinda short), etc. Will be enough, i think... A-a-a-a-and i know that pvp in this game unbalanced as on me... anyway even if its unbalanced, its dont mean that pvp need less attention. Tnx, i hope most of players will agree my suggestion.
P.S. Sorry for my english, i know its not one of my best sides
The only way I can see for cryptic to make PvP enjoyable in this game is simply to remove any and all rewards from PvP. No glory, No rankings, Not even that crappy piece of blue gear you get from winning a match. Now Im sure you're wondering how in the hell could this possibly make PvP more fun? The answer is simple. If the only reward is pride from winning then only players that truly enjoy PvP will bother with PvP. Right now you have a lot of players that are doing PvP simply for rewards. Glory from matches and ADs from the rinx daily. This creates the "quitters" problem at its base, why stick around for 10 mins to get repeatedly stomped and end up with no glory when you can leave and try another match that may at least earn you the minimum amount of glory?
The best and truly most fun PvPing I've ever had was in another game called VCO. They had an open to all levels arena where the only thin you can lose is your HP and maybe some pride and the only thing you can win is maybe some pride. I made a lot of friends in that arena from many different guilds. Even saw players from guilds that hated each other come into that arena and have just pure fun with each other. And the reason is there was no competition for anything. You went there to PvP or even just watch others PvP simply for pure fun, egos were left at the door.
The only way I can see for cryptic to make PvP enjoyable in this game is simply to remove any and all rewards from PvP. No glory, No rankings, Not even that crappy piece of blue gear you get from winning a match. Now Im sure you're wondering how in the hell could this possibly make PvP more fun? The answer is simple. If the only reward is pride from winning then only players that truly enjoy PvP will bother with PvP. Right now you have a lot of players that are doing PvP simply for rewards. Glory from matches and ADs from the rinx daily. This creates the "quitters" problem at its base, why stick around for 10 mins to get repeatedly stomped and end up with no glory when you can leave and try another match that may at least earn you the minimum amount of glory?
The best and truly most fun PvPing I've ever had was in another game called VCO. They had an open to all levels arena where the only thin you can lose is your HP and maybe some pride and the only thing you can win is maybe some pride. I made a lot of friends in that arena from many different guilds. Even saw players from guilds that hated each other come into that arena and have just pure fun with each other. And the reason is there was no competition for anything. You went there to PvP or even just watch others PvP simply for pure fun, egos were left at the door.
I don't think this is a horrible idea but it goes against some core development principles that cryptic has held to so far:
*Incentive for players to explore all areas of the game
*Issues are generally treated not by streamlining but by making more of something.
That tells me that in the long term future, cryptic will likely provide more (quality or quantity) pvp rewards and will likely expand pvp in general.
PanzerJäger HR Hybrid Jugger Conq GF
....
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
Simply u will never have PvP in this game they make game for taking money from ppl not that you will enjoy
Big problem for good PvP is total unbalanced Clasess we have spamm with skills in PvP
annoying is how long wizard can keep you in air and repeat skill ,how many time Rouge can hit you in 1 sec run and attack you like ranger .
Only hope for PvP is Skill tree for pvp where u will have skills only for pvp and cooldown rate of skills 20x slower
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hobokenboyBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
The only way I can see for cryptic to make PvP enjoyable in this game is simply to remove any and all rewards from PvP. No glory, No rankings, Not even that crappy piece of blue gear you get from winning a match. Now Im sure you're wondering how in the hell could this possibly make PvP more fun? The answer is simple. If the only reward is pride from winning then only players that truly enjoy PvP will bother with PvP. Right now you have a lot of players that are doing PvP simply for rewards. Glory from matches and ADs from the rinx daily. This creates the "quitters" problem at its base, why stick around for 10 mins to get repeatedly stomped and end up with no glory when you can leave and try another match that may at least earn you the minimum amount of glory?
The best and truly most fun PvPing I've ever had was in another game called VCO. They had an open to all levels arena where the only thin you can lose is your HP and maybe some pride and the only thing you can win is maybe some pride. I made a lot of friends in that arena from many different guilds. Even saw players from guilds that hated each other come into that arena and have just pure fun with each other. And the reason is there was no competition for anything. You went there to PvP or even just watch others PvP simply for pure fun, egos were left at the door.
I've been saying this since open beta. Surprise!!! This has been an issue since then, yes.
I don't think this is a horrible idea but it goes against some core development principles that cryptic has held to so far:
*Incentive for players to explore all areas of the game
*Issues are generally treated not by streamlining but by making more of something.
That tells me that in the long term future, cryptic will likely provide more (quality or quantity) pvp rewards and will likely expand pvp in general.
Oh, because they've done a bang-up job so far. In three games their history is : Exploit? Nerf. People not aligning with our vision? Nerf. Make a post that points out ugly truths? Remove. No, I fully expect them to pull some knee-jerk reactionary "fix" to this.
between unbalanced classes, wallet warriors, and premade teams your not going to get as many "fair fights" as you want but if the rewards are the same win or lose and JUST bassed off of how many points you earned in the match less would leave.
As I said before just make a random queue.that way you never know what you get.
The premades are messing up any fair PVP.
no one want to fight a pre with a pug its boring for both sides.
why anyone would want to fight a one sided blow out time after time is beyond me.
After a Random queue is made the premades will gravitate to the queue we are using now.
It works just fine for premades.
The only way I can see for cryptic to make PvP enjoyable in this game is simply to remove any and all rewards from PvP. No glory, No rankings, Not even that crappy piece of blue gear you get from winning a match. Now Im sure you're wondering how in the hell could this possibly make PvP more fun? The answer is simple. If the only reward is pride from winning then only players that truly enjoy PvP will bother with PvP. Right now you have a lot of players that are doing PvP simply for rewards. Glory from matches and ADs from the rinx daily. This creates the "quitters" problem at its base, why stick around for 10 mins to get repeatedly stomped and end up with no glory when you can leave and try another match that may at least earn you the minimum amount of glory?
The best and truly most fun PvPing I've ever had was in another game called VCO. They had an open to all levels arena where the only thin you can lose is your HP and maybe some pride and the only thing you can win is maybe some pride. I made a lot of friends in that arena from many different guilds. Even saw players from guilds that hated each other come into that arena and have just pure fun with each other. And the reason is there was no competition for anything. You went there to PvP or even just watch others PvP simply for pure fun, egos were left at the door.
There are plenty of people who like to PvP and join for PvP'ing as their main intent and view glory and gear as a bonus. That being said, you will still get matches where you run into an overgeared 5 man premade with 15k+ GS on everyone, vorpals, epic pvp artifacts and soulforge/bark enchants and just get dominated into the ground. There is nothing fun about that, no matter how much of a PvP'er you are.
I really do feel sorry for new players(myself still basically new gear wise) or people using alts but don't have the twink gear. I used to think being a fresh 90 in WoW PvP was bad...but this is far worse.
It's getting almost as bad as Warhammer Online was towards the last year or so of it's life, the gear/stat differences between a fully geared toon vs. a fairly fresh one were staggering and gearing up was slow and painful.
It's just sad and frustrating to see MMO after MMO make the same mistakes over and over again never learning from past games.
Father McGruder - Scrub geared DPS DC - I kick HAMSTER for the Lord!
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
As I said before just make a random queue.that way you never know what you get.
The premades are messing up any fair PVP.
no one want to fight a pre with a pug its boring for both sides.
why anyone would want to fight a one sided blow out time after time is beyond me.
After a Random queue is made the premades will gravitate to the queue we are using now.
It works just fine for premades.
we can work on a ladder GS queue later.
people run pre-mades to play with friends not to stomp people for the most part. The problem is that queue times would shoot up in this system.
There are plenty of people who like to PvP and join for PvP'ing as their main intent and view glory and gear as a bonus. That being said, you will still get matches where you run into an overgeared 5 man premade with 15k+ GS on everyone, vorpals, epic pvp artifacts and soulforge/bark enchants and just get dominated into the ground. There is nothing fun about that, no matter how much of a PvP'er you are.
I really do feel sorry for new players(myself still basically new gear wise) or people using alts but don't have the twink gear. I used to think being a fresh 90 in WoW PvP was bad...but this is far worse.
It's getting almost as bad as Warhammer Online was towards the last year or so of it's life, the gear/stat differences between a fully geared toon vs. a fairly fresh one were staggering and gearing up was slow and painful.
It's just sad and frustrating to see MMO after MMO make the same mistakes over and over again never learning from past games.
People with better gear should be able to stomp a newly capped character. If they couldn't why gear up.
People with better gear should be able to stomp a newly capped character. If they couldn't why gear up.
I'm not saying they shouldn't stomp, but a new player shouldn't be seeing top geared players 24/7. This is not going to build a player base, something this game is in need of.
Father McGruder - Scrub geared DPS DC - I kick HAMSTER for the Lord!
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
Suggestion: buff loss rewards back to what they were
Add in Auto team balancing similar to what GW2 has, 2 people leave on the enemy team instead of 5v3 someone randomly switches from your team making it a 4v4 and the game continues to be evenly matched and fun
Add Pvp content such as Arenas
Add a leaver penalty
Fix Class skill bugs like HR root
Usually the whole people leaving wouldn't bug me but as it's obviously been pointed out it's at a pinnacle now, pretty much beyond ridiculous. I'll happily carry on if it's just me, I think I've only left one pvp match.
This where the issue lies, a pvp penalty should be enforced to leavers but my initial outlook has been that there is no way to legitimately do this, atleast not with the current system.
There are many legitimate reasons someone may leave a pvp match be it purposely or through no direct fault of their own. This is where and why you can't place a balanced penalty for leavers. The penalties people want in place are for those who come into a pvp match and leave at any point because
1) The opponents are a pre-made and you're in a pug
2) Your team starts getting beaten at any point, this could be 1 minute in with a 50 score difference (I know pathetic but it happens) or after X amount of minutes where there's x-<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> difference in score.
3) There's simply something in the pvp match, the team, a player, the GS's, the gear, the setup, the chat, mic chat, opponent trolling that pushes that player to leave.
These can be considered either way, a genuine reason to leave or just pathetic.
Bottom line is, a penalty does need to be in place and will simply have to apply to everyone for whatever reason. The only reason(s) this penalty should be void, if it is at all programmable or detectable (you don't need to tell me it's not or will never happen, I Know), is because a player;
1) Get's disconnected
2) Is forced to leave because something back in reality has stopped them to play
3)* Is called off to another in game event, could be guild event, DD run etc.. (iffy, yes)
Coming back to pvp issues in general, I won't harp on about general changes, these are the really basic and obvious things that are brought up every single day again and again and I'm sure the developers would have taken note and have or will be working on them
1) Class balance, specifically in pvp. There's really no ****ing point in going on about this, this effects all classes across the board in pvp and pve and will change all the time. Nothing will every be truly balanced because each and every person is going to have their very own individual perspective on this. It's only when a single class is very obviously unbalanced that it will get picked hard on. The last being TR. I know all classes have seen changes that have effected them in someway and as stated earlier, is constantly happening. However it was TR last time round that everyone ground in on and it got hit with the nerf stick in certain areas concidered OP.
Just to clarify, I play TR and have no issues with what happened, it happens, you adapt and move on. TR is still considered OP by many and buggered by others.
2) PvP Maps. Yes, we know, it will change and grow. It's fairly obvious, no need to go on about it.
Anyway, getting back on point. Penalty system. Only way it will work is across the board for any leaver, regardless of the matter. The key is how to do it exactly and what the penalty will be. He's what I think.
Every pvp match should have a base glory award mount set at zero, yes 0. Exactly how it is now. The difference is that each character's base glory reward start amount is recorded and remembered. The current formulas for how glory is rewarded is fine and shouldn't change, there's no need to calculate the way it currently works, what we're looking to do here is to add something to it.
I'm not going to give specific figures, that would be pointless. The general jist would be that the penalty for leavers would be a deduction in their base glory award amount, meaning potentially negative figures, these could be capped to prevent absurdity (e.g. it's not going to drop to below - 9000). The deduction could scale with consecutive leavings per game, then scale back to reasonable levels with successful completion of each match.
e.g first time they leave -5 pts
second consecutive leaving - 15 pts
any leaving that's not consecutive -5pts
successful completion +5pts
Note, my idea would not be for it to increase the base above zero, it's a penalty system purely, not an award system.
The scaling could be something simply as doubling the points deducted per consecutive match, e.g. -5pts, -10pts, -20pts, and work in reverse for successful completions, +5, +10, +20 until base glory reward is back at zero.
HOWEVER. This alone will not work. It will not be incentive enough and would, on it's own, merely annoy more players or discourage more from pvp. The way it will work is by further implementing all the other player ideas mentioned multiple times here.
1) Better glory rewards.
2) More varied glory rewards
3) Event based glory awards (time limited)
4) More affordable and practical glory rewards, everything from consumables, refinements, professions, fashion, AD etc..
5) Better endgame glory rewards, NOTHING here should be significantly better than what is available elsewhere to ALL players as to not create an elite amongst the already elite, the focus would be variation or cosmetic. Different looking equipment, a slight change is equipment stats for all classes, a slight increase would be fair similar ot dread ring or sharandar implementions, essentially a T" or T2.5 equipment release.
To further encourage people into this, again, just take the 100's of player ideas mentioned many times.
1) More maps, obvious as above.
2) More game types, beyond domination.
3) Pvp ladders for specific pvp match types or setups,
4) Adjustable pvp match types, e.g. player numbers per team, 1 on 1 based content
5) As above but in more details, e.g. 1v1 or 2v2 base on team acceptance (duels) or/and GS matching taking into consideration class.
Final mention which is bit more out there is the consideration of a mixed pve/pvp content. I know many would be very against this but it should be done only through choice. If you want to compete in it, you know what you are potentially in for, it's your choice. PvE maps with pvp enabled, or pvp maps with monster content, kind of like current gvg but on a more fixed basis and not based on mini events to see who controls monsters or catapult content.
When it comes to pvp the potential is endless. The only limiting factor is the player bases persistence to argue over everything. This is why you never see anything more or different, in what you may consider a reasonable time frame. For everyone 1 person who promotes an idea, there are always more to be heard against it. People are bred to complain not promote, open a newspaper and compare the number of positive articles to negative ones, this is how everything works on all levels.
Edit: Reflecting back on this, just to add. As for the penalty against those who genuinely disconnect, a nice change would be to increase the time someone has to return to the pvp match before being kicked. I've broached on this elsewhere and it's bloody annoying. The time period between disconnecting and returning to pvp is too short, being kicked from the match upon returning within 1 minute is poor coding. This needs to be extended, especially inlighto f my suggestion, as it would give those who genuinely get kicked out and not leaving as such a chance to return and therefore face no penalty.
If you are on their base node and it is 3/4th blue and here they come
They will come much sooner. Three red bases and their b1 suddenly switches from full red to red-blue? They'll come in less than &0 seconds on their purple horses.
just run away to another node. And kill *** any of them as possible. Look for the low health ones who are running away and kill them.
Run away? Outrun a purple spider with your 5-gold palomino? Forget it.
Killing them? When they've been consistently killing all your team since the session began? Forget it.
Look for the low health one? There is none. The only guy with low health is you, your other team mates left already long ago.
I've taken to leaving any PVP match when I see the opposing team has more than one GWF, it's pointless to stay and I don't enjoy getting killed without being able to counter numerous times.
I leave the game cause my team sucks... and I don't gear up my toon so I 1 v 3 or 1 v 4 the whole time to carry my clueless team.
Same thing like you don't give away your bank account password to the charity. It it just not right. I don't mind small donation once a while, meaning carry a bunch of sub 10k nubs but I have no mood to do that every day.
I don't understand why people hate leavers.. I understand why they leave and its not their fault. Why would anyone stay and "play" against a team that will just kill u over and over again? Its not fun for either of the teams.
The problem is the game.
There is two types of PvP.
The public, casual PvP where you join a random match/server with other random players and kill or get killed. That playstyle is not working with 5vs5-setup, that works better for 20Vs20. Like in Counter-Strike for an example. In this mode a random Q-system that we have now works good and adding a team-balancer will make it better.
Then we have the real PvP with pre-made teams fighting to show which team is the best. There isn't a system for this kind of PvP ATM. Needs a ladder and a way to challenge other guilds. Also other modes like 2vs2, 3vs3 etc.
There are plenty of people who like to PvP and join for PvP'ing as their main intent and view glory and gear as a bonus. That being said, you will still get matches where you run into an overgeared 5 man premade with 15k+ GS on everyone, vorpals, epic pvp artifacts and soulforge/bark enchants and just get dominated into the ground. There is nothing fun about that, no matter how much of a PvP'er you are.
I disagree. If winning the match is the only thing you get then I think most players wouldn't be so dead set on stomping the other team. Also you'd remove a lot of the players who are only doing pvp to grind for glory or the daily rinx quest (which should be removed). But also I was suggesting adding an open arena thus removing the need for the domination matches.
Don't get me wrong, no matter what you do there will always be those players who would rather grief others for fun but in the long run once you remove any rewards for PvP you remove the need for excessive competition. The same would go for PvE, if they removed the score board from the dungeons there would be less competition for most damage and such and in the end people would work together more. I mean would you really care if someone gets more kills or does more damage then you if no one knows? I seriously doubt it.
Ultimately, PvP without rewards promotes fair play and fun. I fought many players in the other game that I knew I had a snowballs chance in hell of beating simply because there was nothing to lose. They would offer pointers and techniques and just be like "try again". And unlike here, when someone offers 1v1 and a team/guild mate kills you they can tell them to stop and if they don't they can kill them. Nothing sends a stronger message that you need to stop what you're doing then getting killed (sometimes multiple times) by members of your own guild.
I disagree. If winning the match is the only thing you get then I think most players wouldn't be so dead set on stomping the other team. Also you'd remove a lot of the players who are only doing pvp to grind for glory or the daily rinx quest (which should be removed). But also I was suggesting adding an open arena thus removing the need for the domination matches.
Don't get me wrong, no matter what you do there will always be those players who would rather grief others for fun but in the long run once you remove any rewards for PvP you remove the need for excessive competition. The same would go for PvE, if they removed the score board from the dungeons there would be less competition for most damage and such and in the end people would work together more. I mean would you really care if someone gets more kills or does more damage then you if no one knows? I seriously doubt it.
Ultimately, PvP without rewards promotes fair play and fun. I fought many players in the other game that I knew I had a snowballs chance in hell of beating simply because there was nothing to lose. They would offer pointers and techniques and just be like "try again". And unlike here, when someone offers 1v1 and a team/guild mate kills you they can tell them to stop and if they don't they can kill them. Nothing sends a stronger message that you need to stop what you're doing then getting killed (sometimes multiple times) by members of your own guild.
I've played games that had no pvp rewards but still had a pvp option. No one used it. I think about once every six months you would see someone trying to form up a party for it. PvP without rewards means that you might as well just remove the option entirely.
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gralotMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited January 2014
I've noticed a rather awful trend with the PVP domination maps. I'm not even sure this is a proper forum for this, but I'm not sure where else to voice my concern. It seems a full majority of the PVP games I've played, more than half of one team will drop out of the game as soon as the game starts to go bad. The game will then continue with an uneven 2 v 5 game. This is not only unbalanced, it's just not fun to sit through, for either team. As the PVP dailies are the most effective means of getting astral diamonds other than logging in only once a day to do an invocation and logging out immediately afterward, this seemed fairly major. Could there be some incentive to stay through a losing game or at least some means of balancing uneven teams?
I've played games that had no pvp rewards but still had a pvp option. No one used it. I think about once every six months you would see someone trying to form up a party for it. PvP without rewards means that you might as well just remove the option entirely.
Interesting since I've already stated that I played a game where most players spent a lot of time in the arena fighting/chatting/or just hanging out. But since it seems people here are a little short sited let me explain that games set up. First of all it was a 16th century sailing game set in Europe. It was an open PK game yet do to the server being divided into basically 2 very large alliances hardly anyone would attack you since doing so could bring half the server down on your head.
It also had city sieges which whatever guild wins the city that guild would control all the ports under that empire. You could also bid to try and takeover a controlled city from another guild. It was a 2 staged system. First stage was fought on the sea, if you managed to break through their blockade you then had to fight on land to capture the flag. City sieges were where all the intense PvPing really happened in game. But as I said, outside of the sieges, everyone would just congregate in the arena where PvP got to be fun. Opposing guild doings 1v1 for fun with no egos or raging, offering pointers and techniques to each other which ultimately made the sieges more intense and fun and far less lop sided then PvP here.
So my point is that we need a place to PvP for fun with no incentives which promote aggressive competition and bad sportsmanship. And of course a place to use all that PvP training like GG. But as it stands now all domination promotes is endless forum treads crying about quitters/unfairness/nerfs/balancing/more rewards/less rewards ect ect. Removing rewards from domination including the daily rinx quest or just removing it altogether and adding an arena would cut those types of thread in half if not more plus help a lot of players understand PvP since they'd be able to challenge others to simple 1v1 and have a chance to better learn what they're doing and the weaknesses of the different classes
And if you need rewards to find PvP fun then you obviously cant say you enjoy it simply for the challenge because if you did, you wouldn't need the rewards.
A wise man once said, you can please some of he people some of the time but not all the people all the time.
And if you need rewards to find PvP fun then you obviously cant say you enjoy it simply for the challenge because if you did, you wouldn't need the rewards.
A wise man once said, you can please some of he people some of the time but not all the people all the time.
My point is that in a typical mmo which neverwinter is, it's not an mmo designed with a mostly pvp focus, it's a standard mmo with a pvp option, not having pvp rewards means that from what I've seen 90-98% of the population doesn't touch pvp. I don't think the population of neverwinter is enough at that point to leave any pvp community worth mentioning worth standing.
1) A ranking system.
2) A matchmaking system (based upon ranking system) (included should be a que for 4 players+ or 3 or less)
3) New gameTYPES
4) New Maps
5) Arena PVP (such as 3v3/4v4/5v5) (rainbow comp forced)
6) Arena PVP Gear (new PVP sets)
7) Foundry PVP enabled
THEN you would be able to add punishment for leavers, and have more fair matches since it would be equal skill/gear players based upon the rank system.
This would solve all the problems mentioned above, as well as bring life back to the game.
Comments
I have 2 60's now, a CW and a DC. I have yet to have a match on either of them that stays 5v5 for longer than 2 minutes. This is not an exaggeration or fabrication. This is the state of the game.
You have one side that is apparently filled with a premade/partial premade or just people with ridiculous gear vs maybe 1 well geared player or just random pugs and they get 3 capped within 45 seconds and people bail.
Then you either get spawn point farmed for zero glory, or you get some nice folk who just trade caps with you which really is just cheating but what are you going to do? I felt like I was playing SWTOR again.
PvP needs help, bad. Module 3 should be 80% PvP fixes if they want to grow this player base at all.
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
Not to be off-topic but imo when your team is getting pwned and it is obvious your gonna lose, cap as much as possible. Contest and cap. If you are on their base node and it is 3/4th blue and here they come, just run away to another node. And kill *** any of them as possible. Look for the low health ones who are running away and kill them. When win is not possible, go for as many you points as possible. To me that is a lot more fun than quitting or just getting crushed trying to use some otherwise viable strategy.
Jugger Conq GF
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Also, GS matching is not working, or never was implemented. I've seen 2k GS people in 40+ games! (And 3k in 50+ don't know which are worse)
Not implemented and hope it will never be without some SERIOUS thinking and testing. Locking your gear after entering a match would be a terrible idea. That leaves queuing naked, and equipping your gear when already in possible.
About thread, pvp hardly need something like that e.g. "u CANT join any pvp arenas for 20 min after u leaved arena battle", pvp leavers become too annoying with each day.
Adding some more types of pvp battles will be also a good improvment to the game, just most simple of them e.g. Flag catch, or few arenas 2v2 3v3 with, u know, hardcore mode, where u have only one life and 3-4 rounds(cuz pvp fights in nwn kinda short), etc. Will be enough, i think... A-a-a-a-and i know that pvp in this game unbalanced as on me... anyway even if its unbalanced, its dont mean that pvp need less attention. Tnx, i hope most of players will agree my suggestion.
P.S. Sorry for my english, i know its not one of my best sides
- Low barrier to entry
- Balance stat decisions (can't hit soft cap for everything)
- Artifacts up to lv.59
- Enchants up to Rank 6
* Possibly change Lesser Enchants to Rare so they can be used in those odd Blue gears with Enchantment Slots.
The best and truly most fun PvPing I've ever had was in another game called VCO. They had an open to all levels arena where the only thin you can lose is your HP and maybe some pride and the only thing you can win is maybe some pride. I made a lot of friends in that arena from many different guilds. Even saw players from guilds that hated each other come into that arena and have just pure fun with each other. And the reason is there was no competition for anything. You went there to PvP or even just watch others PvP simply for pure fun, egos were left at the door.
I don't think this is a horrible idea but it goes against some core development principles that cryptic has held to so far:
*Incentive for players to explore all areas of the game
*Issues are generally treated not by streamlining but by making more of something.
That tells me that in the long term future, cryptic will likely provide more (quality or quantity) pvp rewards and will likely expand pvp in general.
Jugger Conq GF
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Teams with 3+ in their group would never get anyone to fill out their group once they entered the queue. lol
Big problem for good PvP is total unbalanced Clasess we have spamm with skills in PvP
annoying is how long wizard can keep you in air and repeat skill ,how many time Rouge can hit you in 1 sec run and attack you like ranger .
Only hope for PvP is Skill tree for pvp where u will have skills only for pvp and cooldown rate of skills 20x slower
I've been saying this since open beta. Surprise!!! This has been an issue since then, yes.
Oh, because they've done a bang-up job so far. In three games their history is : Exploit? Nerf. People not aligning with our vision? Nerf. Make a post that points out ugly truths? Remove. No, I fully expect them to pull some knee-jerk reactionary "fix" to this.
REMOVE THE PENALTY FOR LOSING!!!!
between unbalanced classes, wallet warriors, and premade teams your not going to get as many "fair fights" as you want but if the rewards are the same win or lose and JUST bassed off of how many points you earned in the match less would leave.
The premades are messing up any fair PVP.
no one want to fight a pre with a pug its boring for both sides.
why anyone would want to fight a one sided blow out time after time is beyond me.
After a Random queue is made the premades will gravitate to the queue we are using now.
It works just fine for premades.
we can work on a ladder GS queue later.
There are plenty of people who like to PvP and join for PvP'ing as their main intent and view glory and gear as a bonus. That being said, you will still get matches where you run into an overgeared 5 man premade with 15k+ GS on everyone, vorpals, epic pvp artifacts and soulforge/bark enchants and just get dominated into the ground. There is nothing fun about that, no matter how much of a PvP'er you are.
I really do feel sorry for new players(myself still basically new gear wise) or people using alts but don't have the twink gear. I used to think being a fresh 90 in WoW PvP was bad...but this is far worse.
It's getting almost as bad as Warhammer Online was towards the last year or so of it's life, the gear/stat differences between a fully geared toon vs. a fairly fresh one were staggering and gearing up was slow and painful.
It's just sad and frustrating to see MMO after MMO make the same mistakes over and over again never learning from past games.
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
I'm not saying they shouldn't stomp, but a new player shouldn't be seeing top geared players 24/7. This is not going to build a player base, something this game is in need of.
Explosivo - Scrub geared MoF CW - Climb upon my BIG ASSED steed....
Items are BoP
Suggestion: buff loss rewards back to what they were
Add in Auto team balancing similar to what GW2 has, 2 people leave on the enemy team instead of 5v3 someone randomly switches from your team making it a 4v4 and the game continues to be evenly matched and fun
Add Pvp content such as Arenas
Add a leaver penalty
Fix Class skill bugs like HR root
This where the issue lies, a pvp penalty should be enforced to leavers but my initial outlook has been that there is no way to legitimately do this, atleast not with the current system.
There are many legitimate reasons someone may leave a pvp match be it purposely or through no direct fault of their own. This is where and why you can't place a balanced penalty for leavers. The penalties people want in place are for those who come into a pvp match and leave at any point because
1) The opponents are a pre-made and you're in a pug
2) Your team starts getting beaten at any point, this could be 1 minute in with a 50 score difference (I know pathetic but it happens) or after X amount of minutes where there's x-<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> difference in score.
3) There's simply something in the pvp match, the team, a player, the GS's, the gear, the setup, the chat, mic chat, opponent trolling that pushes that player to leave.
These can be considered either way, a genuine reason to leave or just pathetic.
Bottom line is, a penalty does need to be in place and will simply have to apply to everyone for whatever reason. The only reason(s) this penalty should be void, if it is at all programmable or detectable (you don't need to tell me it's not or will never happen, I Know), is because a player;
1) Get's disconnected
2) Is forced to leave because something back in reality has stopped them to play
3)* Is called off to another in game event, could be guild event, DD run etc.. (iffy, yes)
Coming back to pvp issues in general, I won't harp on about general changes, these are the really basic and obvious things that are brought up every single day again and again and I'm sure the developers would have taken note and have or will be working on them
1) Class balance, specifically in pvp. There's really no ****ing point in going on about this, this effects all classes across the board in pvp and pve and will change all the time. Nothing will every be truly balanced because each and every person is going to have their very own individual perspective on this. It's only when a single class is very obviously unbalanced that it will get picked hard on. The last being TR. I know all classes have seen changes that have effected them in someway and as stated earlier, is constantly happening. However it was TR last time round that everyone ground in on and it got hit with the nerf stick in certain areas concidered OP.
Just to clarify, I play TR and have no issues with what happened, it happens, you adapt and move on. TR is still considered OP by many and buggered by others.
2) PvP Maps. Yes, we know, it will change and grow. It's fairly obvious, no need to go on about it.
Anyway, getting back on point. Penalty system. Only way it will work is across the board for any leaver, regardless of the matter. The key is how to do it exactly and what the penalty will be. He's what I think.
Every pvp match should have a base glory award mount set at zero, yes 0. Exactly how it is now. The difference is that each character's base glory reward start amount is recorded and remembered. The current formulas for how glory is rewarded is fine and shouldn't change, there's no need to calculate the way it currently works, what we're looking to do here is to add something to it.
I'm not going to give specific figures, that would be pointless. The general jist would be that the penalty for leavers would be a deduction in their base glory award amount, meaning potentially negative figures, these could be capped to prevent absurdity (e.g. it's not going to drop to below - 9000). The deduction could scale with consecutive leavings per game, then scale back to reasonable levels with successful completion of each match.
e.g first time they leave -5 pts
second consecutive leaving - 15 pts
any leaving that's not consecutive -5pts
successful completion +5pts
Note, my idea would not be for it to increase the base above zero, it's a penalty system purely, not an award system.
The scaling could be something simply as doubling the points deducted per consecutive match, e.g. -5pts, -10pts, -20pts, and work in reverse for successful completions, +5, +10, +20 until base glory reward is back at zero.
HOWEVER. This alone will not work. It will not be incentive enough and would, on it's own, merely annoy more players or discourage more from pvp. The way it will work is by further implementing all the other player ideas mentioned multiple times here.
1) Better glory rewards.
2) More varied glory rewards
3) Event based glory awards (time limited)
4) More affordable and practical glory rewards, everything from consumables, refinements, professions, fashion, AD etc..
5) Better endgame glory rewards, NOTHING here should be significantly better than what is available elsewhere to ALL players as to not create an elite amongst the already elite, the focus would be variation or cosmetic. Different looking equipment, a slight change is equipment stats for all classes, a slight increase would be fair similar ot dread ring or sharandar implementions, essentially a T" or T2.5 equipment release.
To further encourage people into this, again, just take the 100's of player ideas mentioned many times.
1) More maps, obvious as above.
2) More game types, beyond domination.
3) Pvp ladders for specific pvp match types or setups,
4) Adjustable pvp match types, e.g. player numbers per team, 1 on 1 based content
5) As above but in more details, e.g. 1v1 or 2v2 base on team acceptance (duels) or/and GS matching taking into consideration class.
Final mention which is bit more out there is the consideration of a mixed pve/pvp content. I know many would be very against this but it should be done only through choice. If you want to compete in it, you know what you are potentially in for, it's your choice. PvE maps with pvp enabled, or pvp maps with monster content, kind of like current gvg but on a more fixed basis and not based on mini events to see who controls monsters or catapult content.
When it comes to pvp the potential is endless. The only limiting factor is the player bases persistence to argue over everything. This is why you never see anything more or different, in what you may consider a reasonable time frame. For everyone 1 person who promotes an idea, there are always more to be heard against it. People are bred to complain not promote, open a newspaper and compare the number of positive articles to negative ones, this is how everything works on all levels.
Edit: Reflecting back on this, just to add. As for the penalty against those who genuinely disconnect, a nice change would be to increase the time someone has to return to the pvp match before being kicked. I've broached on this elsewhere and it's bloody annoying. The time period between disconnecting and returning to pvp is too short, being kicked from the match upon returning within 1 minute is poor coding. This needs to be extended, especially inlighto f my suggestion, as it would give those who genuinely get kicked out and not leaving as such a chance to return and therefore face no penalty.
They will come much sooner. Three red bases and their b1 suddenly switches from full red to red-blue? They'll come in less than &0 seconds on their purple horses.
Run away? Outrun a purple spider with your 5-gold palomino? Forget it.
Killing them? When they've been consistently killing all your team since the session began? Forget it.
Look for the low health one? There is none. The only guy with low health is you, your other team mates left already long ago.
Same thing like you don't give away your bank account password to the charity. It it just not right. I don't mind small donation once a while, meaning carry a bunch of sub 10k nubs but I have no mood to do that every day.
The problem is the game.
There is two types of PvP.
The public, casual PvP where you join a random match/server with other random players and kill or get killed. That playstyle is not working with 5vs5-setup, that works better for 20Vs20. Like in Counter-Strike for an example. In this mode a random Q-system that we have now works good and adding a team-balancer will make it better.
Then we have the real PvP with pre-made teams fighting to show which team is the best. There isn't a system for this kind of PvP ATM. Needs a ladder and a way to challenge other guilds. Also other modes like 2vs2, 3vs3 etc.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
I disagree. If winning the match is the only thing you get then I think most players wouldn't be so dead set on stomping the other team. Also you'd remove a lot of the players who are only doing pvp to grind for glory or the daily rinx quest (which should be removed). But also I was suggesting adding an open arena thus removing the need for the domination matches.
Don't get me wrong, no matter what you do there will always be those players who would rather grief others for fun but in the long run once you remove any rewards for PvP you remove the need for excessive competition. The same would go for PvE, if they removed the score board from the dungeons there would be less competition for most damage and such and in the end people would work together more. I mean would you really care if someone gets more kills or does more damage then you if no one knows? I seriously doubt it.
Ultimately, PvP without rewards promotes fair play and fun. I fought many players in the other game that I knew I had a snowballs chance in hell of beating simply because there was nothing to lose. They would offer pointers and techniques and just be like "try again". And unlike here, when someone offers 1v1 and a team/guild mate kills you they can tell them to stop and if they don't they can kill them. Nothing sends a stronger message that you need to stop what you're doing then getting killed (sometimes multiple times) by members of your own guild.
Interesting since I've already stated that I played a game where most players spent a lot of time in the arena fighting/chatting/or just hanging out. But since it seems people here are a little short sited let me explain that games set up. First of all it was a 16th century sailing game set in Europe. It was an open PK game yet do to the server being divided into basically 2 very large alliances hardly anyone would attack you since doing so could bring half the server down on your head.
It also had city sieges which whatever guild wins the city that guild would control all the ports under that empire. You could also bid to try and takeover a controlled city from another guild. It was a 2 staged system. First stage was fought on the sea, if you managed to break through their blockade you then had to fight on land to capture the flag. City sieges were where all the intense PvPing really happened in game. But as I said, outside of the sieges, everyone would just congregate in the arena where PvP got to be fun. Opposing guild doings 1v1 for fun with no egos or raging, offering pointers and techniques to each other which ultimately made the sieges more intense and fun and far less lop sided then PvP here.
So my point is that we need a place to PvP for fun with no incentives which promote aggressive competition and bad sportsmanship. And of course a place to use all that PvP training like GG. But as it stands now all domination promotes is endless forum treads crying about quitters/unfairness/nerfs/balancing/more rewards/less rewards ect ect. Removing rewards from domination including the daily rinx quest or just removing it altogether and adding an arena would cut those types of thread in half if not more plus help a lot of players understand PvP since they'd be able to challenge others to simple 1v1 and have a chance to better learn what they're doing and the weaknesses of the different classes
And if you need rewards to find PvP fun then you obviously cant say you enjoy it simply for the challenge because if you did, you wouldn't need the rewards.
A wise man once said, you can please some of he people some of the time but not all the people all the time.
1) A ranking system.
2) A matchmaking system (based upon ranking system) (included should be a que for 4 players+ or 3 or less)
3) New gameTYPES
4) New Maps
5) Arena PVP (such as 3v3/4v4/5v5) (rainbow comp forced)
6) Arena PVP Gear (new PVP sets)
7) Foundry PVP enabled
THEN you would be able to add punishment for leavers, and have more fair matches since it would be equal skill/gear players based upon the rank system.
This would solve all the problems mentioned above, as well as bring life back to the game.