So you fall into the 'haha you, spend the next couple weeks (casual) leveling a char because you didn't know the right race and stat bonuses'. The 'right' stuff isn't "known by the community" until after most players start their toon, and will likely change in the future. Get off your high horse and let people have fun playing the game w/o wasting a fee weeks time.
Agree with this ^^
I know one of the most common answers is , you should check a 'guide' Well according to a recent reply from a Mod in another thread ANY post older than 30 days should be classed as 'dead' and more than likely is 'out of date'.
Yes there are class guides on these very forums, but how many of them are less than 30 days old ?
Race is probably the more important of the 2 to change, though I wouldn't argue against starting w/ an ability score re-spec initially.
yes i agree, but when choosing race, you are given quite clear indications in the creation menu at what abilitys each race has, and to be honest race abilitys dont realy make as much a diference as the base ability stats do unless you are realy going for a min max build, and in that case you would do some research first, but even that can be unpredictable with some of the major class changes that have been implemented over the previous 6 months
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
yes i agree, but when choosing race, you are given quite clear indications in the creation menu at what abilitys each race has, and to be honest race abilitys dont realy make as much a diference as the base ability stats do unless you are realy going for a min max build, and in that case you would do some research first, but even that can be unpredictable with some of the major class changes that have been implemented over the previous 6 months
Race is hugely important for some builds and some classes. Especially for PVP. resistance to CC? resistance to knockback? 3% deflect? 3% defense? Those are very important. 1% gold find... not so much.
What if you want to try a new build posted on the forums, but it is only functional w/ certain race and stat rolls? Every time this happens, the current situation requires us to create an entirely new toon of the same class as our main.
yes i agree, but when choosing race, you are given quite clear indications in the creation menu at what abilitys each race has, and to be honest race abilitys dont realy make as much a diference as the base ability stats do unless you are realy going for a min max build, and in that case you would do some research first, but even that can be unpredictable with some of the major class changes that have been implemented over the previous 6 months
Changes made to certain classes, that's the main reason. I started as a destroyer GWF. When it got nerfed, i had no other choice but running a sentinel, with the drawback that my initial stats are still strength based, instead of constitution based.
In mmo terms this is a design flaw. Not some sort of cool or holy thing as some people might claim. Luckily it's not hard to fix the problem, let's just hope we're being heard by somebody who has control over these well needed, changes.
Changes made to certain classes, that's the main reason. I started as a destroyer GWF. When it got nerfed, i had no other choice but running a sentinel, with the drawback that my initial stats are still strength based, instead of constitution based.
In mmo terms this is a design flaw. Not some sort of cool or holy thing as some people might claim. Luckily it's not hard to fix the problem, let's just hope we're being heard by somebody who has control over these well needed, changes.
This is my point, the game changes unpredictably and all out of control of the player. and the player does not have the ability , paid for or not to adjust their character to suite the changes fully.
why should the player suffer due to class changes out of their control
You could roll today the 'perfect' CW. best race , best base abilitys etc, then next week somthing could change with that class which are afected by its abilitys scores, all un-anounced and 'out of the blue' and you can not do anything about it, except re roll... lol,sorry but its not fair
Well since it is D&D, and with everyone keep complaining that it is not a great example of it.
You want the only unambiguous feature of D&D taken out. if you change it, the character is essentially a new one and the old one has been deleted.
Sorry but rolling for your character stats was always D&D and part of the fun.
As far as I can tell if you want to re-roll your Ability Scores all the time - why not just campaign to have have none.
But the point is the fight inside the man not the size of the fight and a changing situations is part of the fun of survival.
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Well since it is D&D, and with everyone keep complaining that it is not a great example of it.
You want the only unambiguous feature of D&D taken out. if you change it, the character is essentially a new one and the old one has been deleted.
Sorry but rolling for your character stats was always D&D and part of the fun.
As far as I can tell if you want to re-roll your Ability Scores all the time - why not just campaign to have have none.
But the point is the fight inside the man not the size of the fight and a changing situations is part of the fun of survival.
Only thing is, this is NOT D&D, and NOT meant to be a 'example' of it, its is a completely different publisher and company, it uses the D&D banner and certain D&D features in the game under licence. Neverwinter is a complete new game, NOT a 'folow up'
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
You want the only unambiguous feature of D&D taken out. if you change it, the character is essentially a new one and the old one has been deleted.
It no more changes your character than better gear, different build, better enchants, changing your fashion, changing your physical appearance via token, and/or changing your history, etc.
Sorry but rolling for your character stats was always D&D and part of the fun.
And you're free to do that. I'm glad that this element of fun is there for you. In the proposed system that allows for re-racing and re-ability-scoring, the playstyle you prefer is still there. Unless the fun for you is in having an edge over people who didn't pick the 'correct' race / stats.
Well since it is D&D, and with everyone keep complaining that it is not a great example of it.
You want the only unambiguous feature of D&D taken out. if you change it, the character is essentially a new one and the old one has been deleted.
You can already change some of your ability scores. Just not all of them. So it isn't following D&D anyway. Also, it doesn't look like this is something they did intentionally. If I were to guess, I'd say the respec they designed didn't include starting ability scores because of a technical limitation.
Sorry but rolling for your character stats was always D&D and part of the fun.
You do know that you don't actually roll your scores, right? There are several predetermined sets. You're basically just picking one. Though they make it -look- like you are rolling dice.
You want the only unambiguous feature of D&D taken out. if you change it, the character is essentially a new one and the old one has been deleted.
the very same can be said for the game too when existing content undergoes 'major' changes, the content is then 'new' and the old content is 'deleted'
You have only got to look at the Draco fight in CN now compared to when it came out and Devs actually agreed on these forums that the 'pushing' of mobs was an intentional part of the fight, and now it as been made that the original intentional part of the fight is impossible. the fight now is a completely different encounter the only thing that remains is the Boss looks the same visualy
You want the only unambiguous feature of D&D taken out. if you change it, the character is essentially a new one and the old one has been deleted.
Yes. Because PW/Cryptic made it ambiguous in Neverwinter. It is clouded in extreme lack of detail and information. The results change wildly dependant on class.
In D&D as the stats are unambiguous. There arent surprises. The game (The handbooks) details what everything does.
In D&D it maybe essentially a new character, but again this isnt D&D replicated, its a digital MMO based on it.
Race changes with respecs are a huge NO to me, doesn't seem right.
Ability Score rerolling, yes, only because when you get in to make your character and pick your class, and hover your mouse over the different Stats, it doesn't tell you WHAT they mean for your character. it basically says "This is your primary attribute" and "This is your secondary attribute" with some very, and I do mean, VERY basic descriptions for each stat. It doesn't tell you which stat attributes to DoT chance like it does when you open your character sheet and hover your mouse over it. It gives you NONE of that, instead you're guessing that the three stats are pretty much all you need and should be high as possible, but in some cases, and with some crafting, you learn (usually the hard way) that "Oh, I should have rolled a higher CHA, because putting a point in CHA every time still gives me a less than desired number but it's too late to go back and change it..." much later down the line.
When you play D&D and read the books, it's extremely thorough on what each stat does. When you're making a character in an MMO, it should be thorough during character creation especially if you can't go back and change your stats with a respec. I mean sure, you can go nab some cookie cutter build or read a guide if you want to, but how many absolutely FRESH players are going to do that? Yeah, sure, you could go start a brand new character as well, but if you're a casual player, it's going to take some time, and then there's gearing. If you have all the gear plus semi decent enchants, are you REALLY going to want to make a character from level 1 to be optimal and go through every thing, including dungeon runs and whatnot when you have a character who's less than optimal because you made a mistake rolling out your ability scores way back in May?
A lot more respec tokens would be bought if people can reroll their ability scores, just to fix any mistakes they've made.
Race changes with respecs are a huge NO to me, doesn't seem right..
huge and obvious YES to me. Doesn't seem right to force me to spend 3 weeks leveling the otherwise EXACT same character just due to a significant race imbalance. What others mentioned is also correct, but tbh I don't care if racial traits were 100% obvious and clearly defined upfront. Something this important to the game should be something that can be changed, just like build/gear etc.
Not supporting racial changes is simply being selfish because it "doesn't seem right". Try having to re-level the exact same character just to change races and initial stat rolls. Then do it again when cryptic changes the class / skills. That doesn't seem right to me.
I have seen absolutely no reasons other than some esoteric hardcore adherence to D&D rules. This is a game, first a foremost. Not D&D. Keep it fun. Keep it profitable. Don't make things unnecessarily painful for players.
For D&D fans: don't change your race and/or your ability scores. Pretend no one else does either. Problem solved.
Gear is not the same as race, do not make the two equivalent. This is an MMO, but it does have the D&D label so certain strictures should be adhered to. All players that are new to a game make mistakes, and learn some things should have been done differently. That is just the way it is. I do not know of any game that makes overcoming early mistakes pain free. Once you have realized you want to do something differently you either take steps to deal with the error or you start over. Besides RPGs I have also played Strategy MMOs. Overcoming new player mistakes in those is often a weeks long and painful process of rebuilding, but only if you make it painful. The same can be said for rebuilding your character from 1st level, it is only painful if you make it that way. Think of it as your chance to do many things differently other than just a racial change. If you think your character is horrible just because the race isn't the perfect one, then it is more than likely your character has issues beyond just the wrong race. Play the hand you have been dealt(or in this case, chose) or fold.
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
edited November 2013
or do as the OP suggests and make everyone happy, except those who want others to be miserable.
Gear is not the same as race, do not make the two equivalent. This is an MMO, but it does have the D&D label so certain strictures should be adhered to. All players that are new to a game make mistakes, and learn some things should have been done differently. That is just the way it is. I do not know of any game that makes overcoming early mistakes pain free. Once you have realized you want to do something differently you either take steps to deal with the error or you start over. Besides RPGs I have also played Strategy MMOs. Overcoming new player mistakes in those is often a weeks long and painful process of rebuilding, but only if you make it painful. The same can be said for rebuilding your character from 1st level, it is only painful if you make it that way. Think of it as your chance to do many things differently other than just a racial change. If you think your character is horrible just because the race isn't the perfect one, then it is more than likely your character has issues beyond just the wrong race. Play the hand you have been dealt(or in this case, chose) or fold.
I just cant agree ever with this line of thinking! This is above all entertainment... I want to have the best possible experience everytime i log and if for whatever reason my visual appearance/stats/enchants are no longer able to provide that for me i want to have the option to change them so i can have again the mental state that i expect when i log in. Make no mistake.. this is a business and all is about money. If someone decides to play hardheaded about this kind of things they'll pile up pretty fast and will always end with players leaving and he/she losing his job and i really doubt anyone wants that outcome, but as every new thing it has to be discussed in a board probably and since resources are limited it just takes some time before is pushed down the line.
I just cant agree ever with this line of thinking! This is above all entertainment... I want to have the best possible experience everytime i log and if for whatever reason my visual appearance/stats/enchants are no longer able to provide that for me i want to have the option to change them so i can have again the mental state that i expect when i log in. Make no mistake.. this is a business and all is about money. If someone decides to play hardheaded about this kind of things they'll pile up pretty fast and will always end with players leaving and he/she losing his job and i really doubt anyone wants that outcome, but as every new thing it has to be discussed in a board probably and since resources are limited it just takes some time before is pushed down the line.
Might as well have a daily handout of 1M AD, I'm not having fun guys. Hey, I put money into this game, and I'm not having fun anymore, please give me GM tools and ability to the hunter class early, I'd love that.
I can get behind the whole starting points, even though it's ridiculous to not do your research if you are trying to min/max, you should've looked into it ASAP. The race? Get the hell out. Next it'll be, hey I want to change my TR into a GFW, plz.
Might as well have a daily handout of 1M AD, I'm not having fun guys. Hey, I put money into this game, and I'm not having fun anymore, please give me GM tools and ability to the hunter class early, I'd love that.
I can get behind the whole starting points, even though it's ridiculous to not do your research if you are trying to min/max, you should've looked into it ASAP. The race? Get the hell out. Next it'll be, hey I want to change my TR into a GFW, plz.
From a lore point of view i see the reason i cant change the race... but I can change the sex of my toon and visual so plastic surgery works in the game but is not as evolved as to make me look a different race
This is not the best documented game, there are many missing parts in the descriptions so as much i like to prepare myself i just cant. Mind that forums present no official information, guides are not always the best and all can change in a patch down the line as it did already. I can already change some of the stats.
Changing TR into a CW lets say is so lore based that you cant even imagine:) Take Elminster for example he was a rogue that transformed into a wizard.
Race changes with respecs are a huge NO to me, doesn't seem right.
Meanwhile, you can change sex, features and abilites of a character and players are exploiting the **** out of the game, but race change just doesn't seem right. Okay.
This isn't strict dnd, but an MMO on the market, without certain cool options that other games have.
Thumbs up for full stat reroll (we seem to agree on this one) and race change services!
This is more dangerous than race changes since it can impact the economy, potentially hurting Cryptic's profit. Cryptic still did it w/ the Waukeen event, but they made the AD time-released to (1) avoid inflation and (2) encourage players to come back.
I can get behind the whole starting points, even though it's ridiculous to not do your research if you are trying to min/max, you should've looked into it ASAP. The race? Get the hell out.
Gotcha, so you're in the 'haha you, go waste a few months or quit the game' category.
Level-setting: all we're really asking is for cryptic to reduce the change-race and ability-score cost and/or give us a different option.
The current cost is:
5M+ AD for geared players
2 months grinding (level, boons)
With the new patch (w/ Hunter), the AD cost should go down, but the grinding time will go up to 3 months. 3 months is enough for some people to quit. I know I'd gladly pay $100 to avoid this redundant process.
Every D&D 'lore' argument is irrelevant, since race changes are already functionally allowed via remaking the exact same character w/ a different race and initial ability scores.
In fact, we all would rather allocate Ability Scores points by ourselves than use preset/rolled Ability Scores.
That is a change I could support. Give players a pool of 78 or 84 points, with a good description of each ability and how it affects the classes; and allow players to allocate them how they wish. If the player then still makes mistakes either without thinking or because they couldn't be bothered to read, then that is their problem.
The Elminister character has gone through many changes, but he is a poor example of why it should be allowed. Remember there is alot of divine influence there. Since this game has no provisions for manifestations of divine power in character's lives that is not a good route to take. Now what I could support for those that want to change their character's Race and/or Ability scores without making a new character is an adventure of near impossible difficulty that must be soloed. One that proves your character's utter devotion to a deity, or finding an artifact of immense power, or finding the last residue of power of a dead god. Completing this could grant you a wish to allow you to change your race or abilities, but with a penalty to some other area of your character(players choice) because perfection is impossible after all even in the realm of grand fantasy. The question then becomes if the player is willing to pay the price of dying X number of times in order make the change possible or are they just a whining greedy spoiled brat that wants everything handed to them on a silver platter.
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crazykvexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
Can somebody please explain how you can agree on the current respec token (respeccing all abilities from level 1-60) but have unovercomeable objections to a respec of the level 0 abilities (not talking about race-change)? Any story you can think of to justify respeccing higher level ability scores can be extended to the initial ability stats, so why draw this hard line?
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truelokasterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1Arc User
edited November 2013
While I'm happy with the current token as it is, I do think that ANOTHER token/service could be created to reroll the Race, Gender and initial stats (are they are tied to the race options).
I suggest as a different service as the retrain token as I understand that not everyone would have/want to do such drastic changes, but some of us sometimes regret choosing a particular race/gender down the road. I've rerolled one of my characters and I wish I had a service/store option for that.
I see that some complain about a race/gender change being lore breaking, but being a long time D&D players and reader, I've seen more than one instance that a Curse, Resurrection or "Girdle of masculinity/femininity" can be used to explain such a dramatic change. And after all the player being comfortable with his ingame character/avatar should the the relevant factor here.
The Elminister character has gone through many changes, but he is a poor example of why it should be allowed. Remember there is alot of divine influence there.
No divine influence at all, Mystra was gone and he was more of a rogue then a mage and in search of magical items. Also in Brotherhood of Griffin series i think the mage is going through a change from human to elemental and in Companions they were all re-born with their knowledge, tho the same race but could have been any other place as Cattie was re-born near Shade Enclave. This from what i can remember...
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truelokasterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1Arc User
Meanwhile, you can change sex, features and abilites of a character and players are exploiting the **** out of the game, but race change just doesn't seem right. Okay.
This isn't strict dnd, but an MMO on the market, without certain cool options that other games have.
Thumbs up for full stat reroll (we seem to agree on this one) and race change services!
I agree with everything you say, but I was not aware we could already have the gender/sex changed ingame. Anyone knows how?
No divine influence at all, Mystra was gone and he was more of a rogue then a mage and in search of magical items. Also in Brotherhood of Griffin series i think the mage is going through a change from human to elemental and in Companions they were all re-born with their knowledge, tho the same race but could have been any other place as Cattie was re-born near Shade Enclave. This from what i can remember...
Remember Elminister was a Chosen of Mysta, and her Avatar for a time, this left him with a spark of divinity. The Companions were re-born, as the same race I might add(except Reg but he was still a halfling, just with extra), because of the divine intercession of Cattie-Brie's goddess and her plans.
Changes of race/gender/ability due to magical items does happen. The issue is they currently do not exist in the game, and they are extremely rare items that usually are only found after a long and arduous trek. I actually wouldn't mind, as I stated previously, if there were magical items that boosted ability scores.
The difference between a token that allows for skill retraining and one that allows for race/ability changes is that a character can go to the local fighters guild and get trained in a new skill. Mages can go to the Mage College and learn new spells, Clerics can pray to their gods for new spells. Skills are easy to change within the context of the game and the lore. Race and ability not so much. These are things that define your character, not skills or gear. Again I'm not saying it should be impossible, just very very difficult to do, and it should be within the context of the game not by just popping down to the corner Zen store and changing them on a whim, like underwear, or because it happens to be the FotMoment.
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Race is probably the more important of the 2 to change, though I wouldn't argue against starting w/ an ability score re-spec initially.
Iyon the Dark
Agree with this ^^
I know one of the most common answers is , you should check a 'guide' Well according to a recent reply from a Mod in another thread ANY post older than 30 days should be classed as 'dead' and more than likely is 'out of date'.
Yes there are class guides on these very forums, but how many of them are less than 30 days old ?
yes i agree, but when choosing race, you are given quite clear indications in the creation menu at what abilitys each race has, and to be honest race abilitys dont realy make as much a diference as the base ability stats do unless you are realy going for a min max build, and in that case you would do some research first, but even that can be unpredictable with some of the major class changes that have been implemented over the previous 6 months
The indications require hovering over some small icons on the bottom. I didn't even notice those icons until after I found this website:
http://neverwinter.browsergamez.com/tips-and-tricks/2223/1/neverwinter-know-your-racial-bonuses.html
Race is hugely important for some builds and some classes. Especially for PVP. resistance to CC? resistance to knockback? 3% deflect? 3% defense? Those are very important. 1% gold find... not so much.
What if you want to try a new build posted on the forums, but it is only functional w/ certain race and stat rolls? Every time this happens, the current situation requires us to create an entirely new toon of the same class as our main.
Iyon the Dark
Changes made to certain classes, that's the main reason. I started as a destroyer GWF. When it got nerfed, i had no other choice but running a sentinel, with the drawback that my initial stats are still strength based, instead of constitution based.
In mmo terms this is a design flaw. Not some sort of cool or holy thing as some people might claim. Luckily it's not hard to fix the problem, let's just hope we're being heard by somebody who has control over these well needed, changes.
This is my point, the game changes unpredictably and all out of control of the player. and the player does not have the ability , paid for or not to adjust their character to suite the changes fully.
why should the player suffer due to class changes out of their control
You could roll today the 'perfect' CW. best race , best base abilitys etc, then next week somthing could change with that class which are afected by its abilitys scores, all un-anounced and 'out of the blue' and you can not do anything about it, except re roll... lol,sorry but its not fair
You want the only unambiguous feature of D&D taken out. if you change it, the character is essentially a new one and the old one has been deleted.
Sorry but rolling for your character stats was always D&D and part of the fun.
As far as I can tell if you want to re-roll your Ability Scores all the time - why not just campaign to have have none.
But the point is the fight inside the man not the size of the fight and a changing situations is part of the fun of survival.
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Only thing is, this is NOT D&D, and NOT meant to be a 'example' of it, its is a completely different publisher and company, it uses the D&D banner and certain D&D features in the game under licence. Neverwinter is a complete new game, NOT a 'folow up'
It no more changes your character than better gear, different build, better enchants, changing your fashion, changing your physical appearance via token, and/or changing your history, etc.
And you're free to do that. I'm glad that this element of fun is there for you. In the proposed system that allows for re-racing and re-ability-scoring, the playstyle you prefer is still there. Unless the fun for you is in having an edge over people who didn't pick the 'correct' race / stats.
Iyon the Dark
You do know that you don't actually roll your scores, right? There are several predetermined sets. You're basically just picking one. Though they make it -look- like you are rolling dice.
the very same can be said for the game too when existing content undergoes 'major' changes, the content is then 'new' and the old content is 'deleted'
You have only got to look at the Draco fight in CN now compared to when it came out and Devs actually agreed on these forums that the 'pushing' of mobs was an intentional part of the fight, and now it as been made that the original intentional part of the fight is impossible. the fight now is a completely different encounter the only thing that remains is the Boss looks the same visualy
Yes. Because PW/Cryptic made it ambiguous in Neverwinter. It is clouded in extreme lack of detail and information. The results change wildly dependant on class.
In D&D as the stats are unambiguous. There arent surprises. The game (The handbooks) details what everything does.
In D&D it maybe essentially a new character, but again this isnt D&D replicated, its a digital MMO based on it.
Ability Score rerolling, yes, only because when you get in to make your character and pick your class, and hover your mouse over the different Stats, it doesn't tell you WHAT they mean for your character. it basically says "This is your primary attribute" and "This is your secondary attribute" with some very, and I do mean, VERY basic descriptions for each stat. It doesn't tell you which stat attributes to DoT chance like it does when you open your character sheet and hover your mouse over it. It gives you NONE of that, instead you're guessing that the three stats are pretty much all you need and should be high as possible, but in some cases, and with some crafting, you learn (usually the hard way) that "Oh, I should have rolled a higher CHA, because putting a point in CHA every time still gives me a less than desired number but it's too late to go back and change it..." much later down the line.
When you play D&D and read the books, it's extremely thorough on what each stat does. When you're making a character in an MMO, it should be thorough during character creation especially if you can't go back and change your stats with a respec. I mean sure, you can go nab some cookie cutter build or read a guide if you want to, but how many absolutely FRESH players are going to do that? Yeah, sure, you could go start a brand new character as well, but if you're a casual player, it's going to take some time, and then there's gearing. If you have all the gear plus semi decent enchants, are you REALLY going to want to make a character from level 1 to be optimal and go through every thing, including dungeon runs and whatnot when you have a character who's less than optimal because you made a mistake rolling out your ability scores way back in May?
A lot more respec tokens would be bought if people can reroll their ability scores, just to fix any mistakes they've made.
I have many alts, I am a class and race rainbow.
huge and obvious YES to me. Doesn't seem right to force me to spend 3 weeks leveling the otherwise EXACT same character just due to a significant race imbalance. What others mentioned is also correct, but tbh I don't care if racial traits were 100% obvious and clearly defined upfront. Something this important to the game should be something that can be changed, just like build/gear etc.
Not supporting racial changes is simply being selfish because it "doesn't seem right". Try having to re-level the exact same character just to change races and initial stat rolls. Then do it again when cryptic changes the class / skills. That doesn't seem right to me.
I have seen absolutely no reasons other than some esoteric hardcore adherence to D&D rules. This is a game, first a foremost. Not D&D. Keep it fun. Keep it profitable. Don't make things unnecessarily painful for players.
For D&D fans: don't change your race and/or your ability scores. Pretend no one else does either. Problem solved.
Iyon the Dark
Iyon the Dark
I just cant agree ever with this line of thinking! This is above all entertainment... I want to have the best possible experience everytime i log and if for whatever reason my visual appearance/stats/enchants are no longer able to provide that for me i want to have the option to change them so i can have again the mental state that i expect when i log in. Make no mistake.. this is a business and all is about money. If someone decides to play hardheaded about this kind of things they'll pile up pretty fast and will always end with players leaving and he/she losing his job and i really doubt anyone wants that outcome, but as every new thing it has to be discussed in a board probably and since resources are limited it just takes some time before is pushed down the line.
Lol, so basically, do it your way, period.
Might as well have a daily handout of 1M AD, I'm not having fun guys. Hey, I put money into this game, and I'm not having fun anymore, please give me GM tools and ability to the hunter class early, I'd love that.
I can get behind the whole starting points, even though it's ridiculous to not do your research if you are trying to min/max, you should've looked into it ASAP. The race? Get the hell out. Next it'll be, hey I want to change my TR into a GFW, plz.
From a lore point of view i see the reason i cant change the race... but I can change the sex of my toon and visual so plastic surgery works in the game but is not as evolved as to make me look a different race
This is not the best documented game, there are many missing parts in the descriptions so as much i like to prepare myself i just cant. Mind that forums present no official information, guides are not always the best and all can change in a patch down the line as it did already. I can already change some of the stats.
Changing TR into a CW lets say is so lore based that you cant even imagine:) Take Elminster for example he was a rogue that transformed into a wizard.
Meanwhile, you can change sex, features and abilites of a character and players are exploiting the **** out of the game, but race change just doesn't seem right. Okay.
This isn't strict dnd, but an MMO on the market, without certain cool options that other games have.
Thumbs up for full stat reroll (we seem to agree on this one) and race change services!
And yet in the last series of Elminster he went from an old human male to a young drow female.
If you mean do it in a way that makes cryptic money, reduces player frustration, and thus sustains the game? Yes.
This is more dangerous than race changes since it can impact the economy, potentially hurting Cryptic's profit. Cryptic still did it w/ the Waukeen event, but they made the AD time-released to (1) avoid inflation and (2) encourage players to come back.
Gotcha, so you're in the 'haha you, go waste a few months or quit the game' category.
Level-setting: all we're really asking is for cryptic to reduce the change-race and ability-score cost and/or give us a different option.
The current cost is:
With the new patch (w/ Hunter), the AD cost should go down, but the grinding time will go up to 3 months. 3 months is enough for some people to quit. I know I'd gladly pay $100 to avoid this redundant process.
Every D&D 'lore' argument is irrelevant, since race changes are already functionally allowed via remaking the exact same character w/ a different race and initial ability scores.
Iyon the Dark
Thank You.
+1 to being able to re-roll and re-assign your ability scores fully as part of a full re-spec.
That is a change I could support. Give players a pool of 78 or 84 points, with a good description of each ability and how it affects the classes; and allow players to allocate them how they wish. If the player then still makes mistakes either without thinking or because they couldn't be bothered to read, then that is their problem.
The Elminister character has gone through many changes, but he is a poor example of why it should be allowed. Remember there is alot of divine influence there. Since this game has no provisions for manifestations of divine power in character's lives that is not a good route to take. Now what I could support for those that want to change their character's Race and/or Ability scores without making a new character is an adventure of near impossible difficulty that must be soloed. One that proves your character's utter devotion to a deity, or finding an artifact of immense power, or finding the last residue of power of a dead god. Completing this could grant you a wish to allow you to change your race or abilities, but with a penalty to some other area of your character(players choice) because perfection is impossible after all even in the realm of grand fantasy. The question then becomes if the player is willing to pay the price of dying X number of times in order make the change possible or are they just a whining greedy spoiled brat that wants everything handed to them on a silver platter.
I suggest as a different service as the retrain token as I understand that not everyone would have/want to do such drastic changes, but some of us sometimes regret choosing a particular race/gender down the road. I've rerolled one of my characters and I wish I had a service/store option for that.
I see that some complain about a race/gender change being lore breaking, but being a long time D&D players and reader, I've seen more than one instance that a Curse, Resurrection or "Girdle of masculinity/femininity" can be used to explain such a dramatic change. And after all the player being comfortable with his ingame character/avatar should the the relevant factor here.
No divine influence at all, Mystra was gone and he was more of a rogue then a mage and in search of magical items. Also in Brotherhood of Griffin series i think the mage is going through a change from human to elemental and in Companions they were all re-born with their knowledge, tho the same race but could have been any other place as Cattie was re-born near Shade Enclave. This from what i can remember...
I agree with everything you say, but I was not aware we could already have the gender/sex changed ingame. Anyone knows how?
Remember Elminister was a Chosen of Mysta, and her Avatar for a time, this left him with a spark of divinity. The Companions were re-born, as the same race I might add(except Reg but he was still a halfling, just with extra), because of the divine intercession of Cattie-Brie's goddess and her plans.
Changes of race/gender/ability due to magical items does happen. The issue is they currently do not exist in the game, and they are extremely rare items that usually are only found after a long and arduous trek. I actually wouldn't mind, as I stated previously, if there were magical items that boosted ability scores.
The difference between a token that allows for skill retraining and one that allows for race/ability changes is that a character can go to the local fighters guild and get trained in a new skill. Mages can go to the Mage College and learn new spells, Clerics can pray to their gods for new spells. Skills are easy to change within the context of the game and the lore. Race and ability not so much. These are things that define your character, not skills or gear. Again I'm not saying it should be impossible, just very very difficult to do, and it should be within the context of the game not by just popping down to the corner Zen store and changing them on a whim, like underwear, or because it happens to be the FotMoment.