This means that just refining a Greater to a Perfect alone and not factoring in the lower levels of refining, it would take
12 "matched" Normals
24 Normals/Rank 8 of any kind
36 "matched" Lessers
72 Lessers/Rank 7 of any kind
72 "matched" shards
144 Shards/Rank 6 of any kind
576 Rank 5
2304 Rank 4
Sorry just to confirm, it takes 2304 rank 4 refining from greater to perfect?
How many rank 4 would it take to go from shards to perfect?
0
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
edited November 2013
The new system has good and bad things. Just be positive. People dont like changes and any change Will be hated by default. And the people familiar enough with the fusion system and people who makes lots of Ad fusing gems knows that upgrading in new system is cheaper.
That said, I dont like the AD tax and the catalysts. My suggestions:
1 - Remove the AD tax. Increase the RP cost of upgrading.
2 - Remove the catalysts. Now fusing is easy.
3 - make bosses give coals and or preservation wards.
4 - salvaged items should give RP or RAD. Player choice.
5 - make professions better. A lvl 20 task that vives RP.
Devs only hace to adjust the amount of RP needed un each level.
"So many ppl lacking basic math and logik...
New system is way cheaper and more convinient than previous. Bottom line. Tx devs"
Zaphrail
It is only cheaper if you buy the enchants and wards to begin with. Currently I get all my wards from praying- free. I currently get all my rank 4's from drops and nodes- free. I don't unslot enchants i overwite- free. Current cost to get rank 9 and 10's- free. Yes it takes a lot of time, i'm just getting close to the tens, but I will Repeat with the current system enchants are FREE! So any argument that this new system is cheaper is immediately invalid. Now I understand that AD can also be gotten for free, but with BoP the main source of AD is selling enchants. Refining 24k a day on top of collecting the enchants to refine is a huge time sink and cost increase. Having to use this AD for ranking up enchants means I can't use it to buy mounts, equipment, profession resources, etc. this is a huge increase in cost. Saying that wards are a cost because iI could buy or sell them at the Auction house is ludicrous. If i win a car I don't say it cost me the full price of the car because I could have bought it at a dealership. To say there are full opportunity costs associated with things like wards and enchants just shows you learned nothing in economics.
The new system has good and bad things. Just be positive. People dont like changes and any change Will be hated by default. And the people familiar enough with the fusion system and people who makes lots of Ad fusing gems knows that upgrading in new system is cheaper.
That said, I dont like the AD tax and the catalysts. My suggestions:
1 - Remove the AD tax. Increase the RP cost of upgrading.
2 - Remove the catalysts. Now fusing is easy.
3 - make bosses give coals and or preservation wards.
4 - salvaged items should give RP or RAD. Player choice.
5 - make professions better. A lvl 20 task that vives RP.
Devs only hace to adjust the amount of RP needed un each level.
Or you could just leave the WORKING system in place.
0
uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
Currently, if you are patient enough, you can fuse your own R9's and perfects for free(coffers for coal wards, farm tons of shards and enchants). With the proposed system you cannot, regardless of how many shards you farm, you will need AD.
Just curious to know: you're going to need less Coalescent Wards, where is the problem to sell those for ADs?
Just curious to know: you're going to need less Coalescent Wards, where is the problem to sell those for ADs?
Two problems with this. One while you get coal wards from praying, it's not like you get 100's of them not really even enough. Currently wards are the weak link in the system, what you are waiting on. two if everybody needs them less then the price in the AH goes way down.
0
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
Or you could just leave the WORKING system in place.
Working? Yes is working for bots farming enchants and selling packs of 99xlvl5 enchants . Is working for people with 100 accounts farming coal wards.
T
Two problems with this. One while you get coal wards from praying, it's not like you get 100's of them not really even enough. Currently wards are the weak link in the system, what you are waiting on. two if everybody needs them less then the price in the AH goes way down.
To my current estimated calculation, at least for the weapon and armor enchantments you need around 10 Coalescent wards instead of 85. Even if the price of those drop to 50k, you could still sell those and gain the ADs required to "upgrade" the enchantments in the new system. If you do not spend a single AD to buy Coalescent wards in the previous system, you would still need to wait for those 85 to drop. You can still do that in the new system and just sell those.
Working? Yes is working for bots farming enchants and selling packs of 99xlvl5 enchants . Is working for people with 100 accounts farming coal wards.
T
Yeah and under the current system bots won't have an advantage? More enchants and more coalwards are still beneficiary. Even item shops won't be limited that much because they can buy the Catalysts off the Bazar. It's not as convenient for those, but the new system is also not as convenient for everyone else.
Feedback: General: Slotting Enchantments Is there a quick way to add enchants to the refining process, or is it all drag and drop? If not, can we get one? They can be quickly removed by right clicking. E.g. if the refining window is open shift-clicking an enchant in your inventory will add it to a refine slot (I would have choosen double-clicking as a first option but that already does something).
Dragging and dropping is somewhat tedious, though this may just be part of the transition process between systems.
Also, is there any merit in something like "add to refining process" in the right click context menu? Currently the options are Refine..., Identify and Discard.
Feedback: General: Availability of catalysts What is the rationale for having blue catalysts drop only from "Epic dungeon skill nodes and bosses"? This limits availability to purchase only for anyone not doing dungeons.
Edit: Another option for limited availability would be to add catalysts added to the Coffer of Wonderous Augmentation
What is the rationale for having blue catalysts drop only from "Epic dungeon skill nodes.
Oh cool , now we are going to have muppets running infront trying to hog every skill node and completely ignoring the fact they are needed in combat , plus then you get the idiots who think that every node belongs to them who will throw hissy fits if anybody else opens a node ...
your calculation scenario is a bit different from my calculation, here my calculation according to chart :
lesser = 4shard + 1 Cw + 25k ad = ? + 100k ad + 25k ad = 125k ad [1 Cw]
normal = 2 lesser + 1 GMOP + 1 Cw + 50k ad = 250k ad + 100k ad + 100k ad + 50k ad = 500k Ad [3 Cw]
Greater = 2 Normal + 2 GMOP + 1 Cw + 75k ad = 1000k ad + 200k ad + 100k ad + 75k ad = 1375k Ad [7 Cw]
Perfect = 3 Greater + 2 GMOP + 1 Cw + 100k ad = 4125k ad + 200k ad + 125k ad + 100k ad = 4550k Ad [22 Cw]
or may be i wrong, plz corrected on my calc
Making a Perfect only requires 2 Greaters. You're calc shows 3 Greaters.
Here's a quick overview chart on the Refining Points "System" showing the values of RP needed and given when "Refining/Leveling" up.
0
tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
Suggestion: Limitation of blue/purple catalysts Solution: Make catalysts refineable. Thus you can grind out the needed RP to upgrade your 2 green catalysts to a blue catalyst(one green to upgrade, one green acts as the catalyst in the fusion) and make your own higher level catalysts, otherwise all we'll see if the people with most AD or the most time to run dungeon being the people who can actually use the new system.
Sorry just to confirm, it takes 2304 rank 4 refining from greater to perfect?
How many rank 4 would it take to go from shards to perfect?
I just posted a chart on this thread. You can use it to calculate any scenario you want.
0
plentyoskillzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
Please don't rush this system into module 2 if it isn't ready. As of now it is not ready. If you make a change on a current system it should be an improvement. This is far from an improvement except for the gold charge to unslot. If your goal is to soak up an absurd amount of bag space and or bank space forcing folks to roll more alts or buy more of said bank/bag slots ... then kudos well done.
First if someone else already said this my bad. It looks like we will be running alot of dungeons again to get some of the catalysts and runes to make RPs. This is gonna generate alot of rough ad. Players will hit their cap easier for the day and prob have alot left over. Is it possible to make the AD cost for upgrading the lower enchantments be in Rough ad? This would make it have a purpose for those of us hitting cap and going way over. Something to consider at least
My feedback with the enchants
this new system will back fire.
my suggestion make enchants 1 through 4 free of charge
then have it start charging AD like 10k or 20k ad for rank 5
and so on. 50k ad for just rank 4 is kinda insane.
0
baylen76Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Oh cool , now we are going to have muppets running infront trying to hog every skill node and completely ignoring the fact they are needed in combat , plus then you get the idiots who think that every node belongs to them who will throw hissy fits if anybody else opens a node ...
1) Outrageous. I can't believe they intend to implement a system that rewards antisocial behaviour *again*. Did they not learn from Need on everything times?
2) As a GF main, thank you very much. Every muppet will just shift-zing ahead to loot nodes.
Really, this whole system is shaping up to be a real gamebreaker. Redesign while I'm still playing, please. Thank you very much.
0
uurbsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 449Bounty Hunter
Here's a quick overview chart on the Refining Points "System" showing the values of RP needed and given when "Refining/Leveling" up.
Thank you very much for the chart. I'm currently doing some number crunching myself--not finished yet--, but what I can tell you right now, is that you should never ever use any epic enchantments for RPs! The RP value of those items is less than 4 times the value of the lower ranks! Only rank 5 and rank 6 actually have four times the RP value of rank 4's, but starting at rank 7, the RP value of those items is less than times-4--besides you need those as catalysts anyway.
IMHO, the new system is meant to use up the enchantments/runestones that drop and not those you "upgrade" (besides the required usage as catalyst)!
Oh cool , now we are going to have muppets running infront trying to hog every skill node and completely ignoring the fact they are needed in combat , plus then you get the idiots who think that every node belongs to them who will throw hissy fits if anybody else opens a node ...
Not that what you're saying isn't going to happen, but can't we just farm them from the skill nods in solo dungeons like the ones in Sharandar or are these going to appear only in skill nods from epic dungeons?
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
Working? Yes is working for bots farming enchants and selling packs of 99xlvl5 enchants . Is working for people with 100 accounts farming coal wards.
T
Yes there are bots, maybe we should punish everyone that doesn't have anything to do with them.
Not that what you're saying isn't going to happen, but can't we just farm them from the skill nods in solo dungeons like the ones in Sharandar or are these going to appear only in skill nods from epic dungeons?
If the tool tip is accuracte, then it states "Epic dungeon skill nodes and bosses".
Suggestion: Limitation of blue/purple catalysts Solution: Make catalysts refineable. Thus you can grind out the needed RP to upgrade your 2 green catalysts to a blue catalyst(one green to upgrade, one green acts as the catalyst in the fusion) and make your own higher level catalysts, otherwise all we'll see if the people with most AD or the most time to run dungeon being the people who can actually use the new system.
Comments
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Sorry just to confirm, it takes 2304 rank 4 refining from greater to perfect?
How many rank 4 would it take to go from shards to perfect?
That said, I dont like the AD tax and the catalysts. My suggestions:
1 - Remove the AD tax. Increase the RP cost of upgrading.
2 - Remove the catalysts. Now fusing is easy.
3 - make bosses give coals and or preservation wards.
4 - salvaged items should give RP or RAD. Player choice.
5 - make professions better. A lvl 20 task that vives RP.
Devs only hace to adjust the amount of RP needed un each level.
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
New system is way cheaper and more convinient than previous. Bottom line. Tx devs"
Zaphrail
It is only cheaper if you buy the enchants and wards to begin with. Currently I get all my wards from praying- free. I currently get all my rank 4's from drops and nodes- free. I don't unslot enchants i overwite- free. Current cost to get rank 9 and 10's- free. Yes it takes a lot of time, i'm just getting close to the tens, but I will Repeat with the current system enchants are FREE! So any argument that this new system is cheaper is immediately invalid. Now I understand that AD can also be gotten for free, but with BoP the main source of AD is selling enchants. Refining 24k a day on top of collecting the enchants to refine is a huge time sink and cost increase. Having to use this AD for ranking up enchants means I can't use it to buy mounts, equipment, profession resources, etc. this is a huge increase in cost. Saying that wards are a cost because iI could buy or sell them at the Auction house is ludicrous. If i win a car I don't say it cost me the full price of the car because I could have bought it at a dealership. To say there are full opportunity costs associated with things like wards and enchants just shows you learned nothing in economics.
Or you could just leave the WORKING system in place.
Two problems with this. One while you get coal wards from praying, it's not like you get 100's of them not really even enough. Currently wards are the weak link in the system, what you are waiting on. two if everybody needs them less then the price in the AH goes way down.
T
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
Yeah and under the current system bots won't have an advantage? More enchants and more coalwards are still beneficiary. Even item shops won't be limited that much because they can buy the Catalysts off the Bazar. It's not as convenient for those, but the new system is also not as convenient for everyone else.
Is there a quick way to add enchants to the refining process, or is it all drag and drop? If not, can we get one? They can be quickly removed by right clicking. E.g. if the refining window is open shift-clicking an enchant in your inventory will add it to a refine slot (I would have choosen double-clicking as a first option but that already does something).
Dragging and dropping is somewhat tedious, though this may just be part of the transition process between systems.
Also, is there any merit in something like "add to refining process" in the right click context menu? Currently the options are Refine..., Identify and Discard.
Feedback: General: Availability of catalysts
What is the rationale for having blue catalysts drop only from "Epic dungeon skill nodes and bosses"? This limits availability to purchase only for anyone not doing dungeons.
Edit: Another option for limited availability would be to add catalysts added to the Coffer of Wonderous Augmentation
Edit 2: Also, craftable via alchemy.
Making a Perfect only requires 2 Greaters. You're calc shows 3 Greaters.
Solution: Make catalysts refineable. Thus you can grind out the needed RP to upgrade your 2 green catalysts to a blue catalyst(one green to upgrade, one green acts as the catalyst in the fusion) and make your own higher level catalysts, otherwise all we'll see if the people with most AD or the most time to run dungeon being the people who can actually use the new system.
I just posted a chart on this thread. You can use it to calculate any scenario you want.
First if someone else already said this my bad. It looks like we will be running alot of dungeons again to get some of the catalysts and runes to make RPs. This is gonna generate alot of rough ad. Players will hit their cap easier for the day and prob have alot left over. Is it possible to make the AD cost for upgrading the lower enchantments be in Rough ad? This would make it have a purpose for those of us hitting cap and going way over. Something to consider at least
this new system will back fire.
my suggestion make enchants 1 through 4 free of charge
then have it start charging AD like 10k or 20k ad for rank 5
and so on. 50k ad for just rank 4 is kinda insane.
1) Outrageous. I can't believe they intend to implement a system that rewards antisocial behaviour *again*. Did they not learn from Need on everything times?
2) As a GF main, thank you very much. Every muppet will just shift-zing ahead to loot nodes.
Really, this whole system is shaping up to be a real gamebreaker. Redesign while I'm still playing, please. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much for the chart. I'm currently doing some number crunching myself--not finished yet--, but what I can tell you right now, is that you should never ever use any epic enchantments for RPs! The RP value of those items is less than 4 times the value of the lower ranks! Only rank 5 and rank 6 actually have four times the RP value of rank 4's, but starting at rank 7, the RP value of those items is less than times-4--besides you need those as catalysts anyway.
IMHO, the new system is meant to use up the enchantments/runestones that drop and not those you "upgrade" (besides the required usage as catalyst)!
Yes there are bots, maybe we should punish everyone that doesn't have anything to do with them.
I thought they were.