Oh i read it. I just disagree with the justification.
I also understand human nature and path of least resistance. People love to play the victim card. It allows them to blame someone else for thier actions or lack of action. Yes humans are smart, they are also lazy. If they dont have to change out of thier green gear to get thier 4k ad each day why would they?
How long are you going to cling to the "fresh 60 in greens" premise? Are you white knighting for all the 60s into thier first match? By now i bet you arent a freshie in greens. Unless anything more "shouldnt" be needed to right-click-leave-party at the first sign of resistance.
So do you have a choice or are you the perpetual vicitm?
Do these posts even take into consideration sub 60 pvp, where bots run rampant and it isn't an unlikely scenario where you end up on a team with 3 bots.
Im adamantly against penalization except timed lockouts in the 10-15 min range. If there is a penalty, this should be the only one.
Do these posts even take into consideration sub 60 pvp, where bots run rampant and it isn't an unlikely scenario where you end up on a team with 3 bots.
Im adamantly against penalization except timed lockouts in the 10-15 min range. If there is a penalty, this should be the only one.
doubtful.
my new level 10 CW played her first pvp match today. about three minutes in, we had someone disconnect. it wasn't a 'leave party' that i could tell. the player never returned so who knows what the reason was. and the match, even though it was un-even, we were winning by about 100 points through most of it. that is, until the last two minutes or so and the other team managed to cap all three points and won the match.
so why should the player that disconnected be penalized? we did lose and based on our performance, had we been running with a full team, we would have easily won the match. but that's part of the whole point... each of these situations are different. so there would be no way to fairly enforce any kind of penalty system. it's like giving a player a temporary ban for something that could be caused by them or not caused by them.
also, there were no bots in my level 10-19 pvp match. just throwing that out there.
Oh i read it. I just disagree with the justification.
I also understand human nature and path of least resistance. People love to play the victim card. It allows them to blame someone else for thier actions or lack of action. Yes humans are smart, they are also lazy. If they dont have to change out of thier green gear to get thier 4k ad each day why would they?
How long are you going to cling to the "fresh 60 in greens" premise? Are you white knighting for all the 60s into thier first match? By now i bet you arent a freshie in greens. Unless anything more "shouldnt" be needed to right-click-leave-party at the first sign of resistance.
So do you have a choice or are you the perpetual vicitm?
but you can't penalize people for playing the game the way they want to play it. if they're in mixed greens/blues/purples, it doesn't really matter because those are their choices. just like how they choose to play pvp in its current state is their choice. you can't force people to play the way you want them to play. and you can't expect people to play against anyone they don't want to play against for ANY reason they may have. as it's been stated multiple times in this thread (if you did, in fact, read it) people will do whatever is necessary to play the game how they want to play it even if they incorporated pvp penalties. calling them lazy or accusing them of playing the victim is applying unrealistic expectations on multiple players that may have multiple reasons for quitting a match. generalizing it is really just lazy thinking.
Mechwarrior had a year of trying to resolve very similar issues with bot farming, early quitting etc. I think their current model works OK:
- You may quit the match with no penalty, but your character is "locked" in the match, so you cannot join a new match until the match you just quit is over, so you might just as well stay. This means no accidental penalties given to people with network issues etc.
- Players either que for a PUG/partial premade, or a full premade. Full premade is always against full premade with no consideration for ranking.
- The PUG que groups players according to their win-loss ratio. The match maker allows for increasing unbalance of the team with the time it takes to find an even game, so that if many people are queing you have more even matches.
I personally think PvP is boring, but now and then there is a good, even, match which ends in a close win/loss. Due to the rarity of such matches, if it was not for the 4k+8k AD reward I would not bother, since the current system is so messed up. I turn off zone chat in PvP since it is just full of kids whining. If we are down to 3vs5 I still do my best, but once there is only two of us I stay in spawn and look over my professions or /tell friends to organize next dungeon party. I am not wasting five more minutes of my life on something boring with a very predictable outcome.
We talk about lvl 60 PvP cause under that level PvP usually is a temporary thing you do while leveling. You even get exp from there, and after a couple of matches you'll be at the next level, so you're constantly moving forward. Still funny, but the real PvP is at level 60.
This said, i PvP a lot as a clanless lone wolf, and i can see that from my experience 90% of the times people quit a match, it's when it gets very one sided. And, i've to say, 90% of the times PvP end up in a 1 sided match. I've been very rarely in head-to-head dominations.
So my question is: ok, we put a penalty for quitters, and a 1 minute limit to stay in spawn, then you get teleported to the battleground. What do you get? People going afk, leaving their char there to get chainkilled by the enemy team once it gets out of spawn, just like a bot. Or getting out of the spawn to get insta-killed by the enemy. Non-stop, till the end of the match.
And i can imagine how much fun can have a winning team, standing there for 10 minutes, swarming weaker players as soon as they get out of the spawn.
First, balance the PvP system. Then think about penalties. I would not join the current PvP pug system, if penalties were applied without any balancing. For example, PvP events: many guilds use those events to go PvP with full premades, to gain more glory. And they would do it even more if a ranking system is created. 99% of the times, a pug against such organized groups will end up in a very 1 sided slaughter (50-1000). Now, imagine if on top of that you're forced to get out of the spawn and get swarmed non-stop till the end of the match.
How many would join PvP events, if they know the already high chance of ending up in a 1 sided slaughter, is even higher?
How many would join PvP pug with the current system+penalties, knowing that most of the time you may end up in a 1 sided slaughter, being forced to get swarmed for 10 minutes till the end of the match?
Having a crappy PvP pug system that can't create balanced matches most of the time is bad, but forcing people to be slaughtered in a unbalanced PvP system is plain stupid.
I personally think PvP is boring, but now and then there is a good, even, match which ends in a close win/loss. Due to the rarity of such matches, if it was not for the 4k+8k AD reward I would not bother, since the current system is so messed up. I turn off zone chat in PvP since it is just full of kids whining. If we are down to 3vs5 I still do my best, but once there is only two of us I stay in spawn and look over my professions or /tell friends to organize next dungeon party. I am not wasting five more minutes of my life on something boring with a very predictable outcome.
This. A even match is funny, no matter if you win or lose. You can fight. The current system allows such matches to happen very rarely.
Best way to start, imho, is to
-create different premade and pug queues
-force players who queue in pug, to do it solo (you can't queue for pug PvP while being in a Group, no matter the size. You've to be alone), so that they can't form premades or half premades to fight in pug. Allow the game, and the game only, to form the two teams. 3 guildies want to go pug PvP, they go separated. They may end up in different matches, or against each Others, or, may be, even together. But it's not up to them to decide.
-the game will form the teams looking at both gear (not just gs, but considering armor and weapon enchants too) and a PvP ranking system based on a mix of personal performance and win-loss ratio. Once you queue for PvP, you can't change anything in your equipment.
-if one of the 2 teams is winning for more than 200 points, the game scrambles the two teams using the current match performances as a reference (for example, the best player of the winning team goes to the losing team, and the worst player of the losing team, goes to the winning team).
-glory gain in pugs based only on your performance, and not heavily influenced by losing-winning the way it is now. It's ok to have glory gain based on team performance for premades. But for pugs, it's not good. puggers who PvP to farm glory, don't like to get 1/3 glory, regardless of their performance, just cause their team sucks.
Do this to start, and i guarantee that you'll see a lot less quits. Then, you can start to put penalties for quitters, and a time limit to camp in spawn.
- Quit penalty decreasing while the match proceeds. Quitting in the first 2 minutes gives you a huge penalty, while quitting in the last minute gives you a small penalty. Penalty can be both a certain AD loss, or the player not being able to join a PvP match for a period of time. Or both.
- 30 seconds time limit to stay in spawn. Then you get teleported to the battlefield. The first 2 times you have to get teleported, you get zero penalty. After that, everytime you die, you get injured.
- you can get dc'ed, but you've a limit of times you can get dc'ed during PvP and do not rejoin (meaning only the times you get dc'ed and do not relog count). If you relog in 2 minutes after getting dc'ed, it does not count. Let's say, for example, if you get dc'ed during a PvP match more than 5 times in the same day, and all the time you never relog, you can't join PvP for 12 hours.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Oh i read it. I just disagree with the justification.
I also understand human nature and path of least resistance. People love to play the victim card. It allows them to blame someone else for thier actions or lack of action. Yes humans are smart, they are also lazy. If they dont have to change out of thier green gear to get thier 4k ad each day why would they?
How long are you going to cling to the "fresh 60 in greens" premise? Are you white knighting for all the 60s into thier first match? By now i bet you arent a freshie in greens. Unless anything more "shouldnt" be needed to right-click-leave-party at the first sign of resistance.
So do you have a choice or are you the perpetual vicitm?
Nah, I have decent gear. Yeah, I'll keep posting in defense of the "little guy" until something changes. It took me months to get this gear, it doesn't happen overnight... unless... you know... "The scourge of online gaming" occurs.
For as long people are fresh at 60, not knowledgeable of their class, without wep/armor enhancements, without any semblance of "what do I do?" in a PvP match....
... they need to be matched against same type of adversaries.
Not guys that will constantly one-shot them making a completely frustrating and one-sided match.
- Quit penalty decreasing while the match proceeds. Quitting in the first 2 minutes gives you a huge penalty, while quitting in the last minute gives you a small penalty. Penalty can be both a certain AD loss, or the player not being able to join a PvP match for a period of time. Or both.
- 30 seconds time limit to stay in spawn. Then you get teleported to the battlefield. The first 2 times you have to get teleported, you get zero penalty. After that, everytime you die, you get injured.
ROFL
you know that this is a GAME??? sounds rather like you plan for some communist masterplan.
i think you guys haven't realized that punishing will not lead to happy players. people like playing games were they have fun, not were they are punished for doing certain things. people want rewards, not punishments.
it is the same in real life. if you educate your child by punishing it all the time ("if you write a "c" then you won't get pocket money for three weeks", "if you don't exercise your instrument today you will not get dinner") it will lose its motivation and self-esteem.
There needs to be a requeue time limit if you leave a match or disco in a match and dont return to it.
There needs to be a ranking system so that team 1 GS isnt 40k total while team 2's total GS is 60k
It seems that Cryptic does not care nor do they plan on fixing any of the issues that are listed by all the posters. This pvp system which is very fun is so messed up that i just take the good matches with the bad not really much choice. It was never intended, (at least i dont think it was) to be part of the story. The game engine is great and works well obvioisly with the domination system. Please Cryptic do something all this or you are going to lose a lot of customers, here are a few suggestions, first of all why in the hell is there not a record keeping of all the domination matches? This has to be one of the biggest oversite i have ever seen in a video game. There would be a lot more incentive if players knew there long term score instead getting a message " you have reached 100 kills" great what about the **** win loss records i care more about that. Please dont tell me about video capture or screenshot which i cant seem to get to work. Give warnings to afkers and leavers and if they keep doing it NAIL THE **** OUT OF THEM!!! This company has had so much succes that it would seem that these issues could resolved so why are they not getting it done? I try to stay in the fights regardless of the outcome but it is very frustrating to the point i am throwing stuff and that is my fault of course but i like this game a lot and its potential but i see a lot of signs that are not good, i know its still very new but they have known about this stuff for months now and i am not seeing anything done PLEASE CRYPTIC PUT A WIN-LOSS RECORD IN THE PVP SYSTEM AND START PENALIZING PLAYERS FOR BAD BEHAVIOUR!!!, how this could have been overlooked is astonishing. If i am wrong about this aand there is something in the game that i cant find please let me know. I am re-downloading Rift atm just in case. LOL
In game i hear my friends complain about quitters because they are working on the pvp title- 5k kills... but they cant get it because the losing team keeps quitting on them.
I hope that isn't what this forum is about.
I don't really see why anyone on the losing team would gripe that their team members are dropping. Also I am on the winning side a lot(pug team) and it really isn't fun destroying the other team... it might be fun for new people but when you're used to winning all you wish for is another pre-made team so that there will be some decent competition.
We shouldn't be pressured into staying on a team that consists of people that REFUSE to work and communicate as a team, or accept advice.
In game i hear my friends complain about quitters because they are working on the pvp title- 5k kills... but they cant get it because the losing team keeps quitting on them.
I hope that isn't what this forum is about.
I think for many PVPers (NOT ALL, just many), that is precisely what this is about. They want to force undergeared, underprepared players to stay in the match so they can continually faceroll them and get some sort of sick pleasure out of roflstomping people.
So with the new module they are implementing a "vote-kick" feature because it was apparently highly requested. Yet I never saw anyone talk about a vote-kick feature. One thing is for sure, a penalty system for leaving PvP is much more important than a vote-kick feature.
It's a real shame that the Devs don't care about this. It could have made the whole difference for Module 2. Don't think I'll be playing it until they actually wake up to this problem.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
So with the new module they are implementing a "vote-kick" feature because it was apparently highly requested. Yet I never saw anyone talk about a vote-kick feature.
This is because they mostly talk about implementing it in dungeons.
Their are so many PvP leavers because there are no penalty for leaving and because sometimes the match-up isn't fair. Sometimes I'll get teamed with 7-10k GS while the others are wearing bright armors and weapons with 11-15k GS. Obviously the chance of winning is pretty low if your team is under geared while the opponents are well geared, so what's the point of continuing the game if it's so obvious you'll lose anyway? So that is one of the logical reason why they leave. And when it's 4v5 or 3v5 the battle becomes extremely boring, it's either you stay at the respawn site or get slaughter. Srsly waiting on the camp site till the game ends is extremely boring, so pls allow teams to surrender or forfeit the game, and if all members of the team voted for surrender the game will end; players who are afk for more than 5 mins. in PvP will automatically vote surrender. Players who leave will be suspended to join PvP for 15mins.
So with the new module they are implementing a "vote-kick" feature because it was apparently highly requested. Yet I never saw anyone talk about a vote-kick feature. One thing is for sure, a penalty system for leaving PvP is much more important than a vote-kick feature.
It's a real shame that the Devs don't care about this. It could have made the whole difference for Module 2. Don't think I'll be playing it until they actually wake up to this problem.
it's a real shame that there are players that want to penalize people for not wanting to play the way they expect them to in a crippled system. it's also funny that people can just assume that someone doesn't care about something because they're being tight-lipped about it. people want to personify the developers without putting them into proper context: this is a company. this isn't your next door neighbor that is ignoring you every time you try to talk to him about his dog urinating in your bushes.
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josiahiyonMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 396Arc User
I don't really see why anyone on the losing team would gripe that their team members are dropping. Also I am on the winning side a lot(pug team) and it really isn't fun destroying the other team... it might be fun for new people but when you're used to winning all you wish for is another pre-made team so that there will be some decent competition.
We shouldn't be pressured into staying on a team that consists of people that REFUSE to work and communicate as a team, or accept advice.
Agreed. I leave when winning more often than when losing. Losing can be fun and challenging. Winning 1000-0 isn't. However, as you note, sometimes it's too frustrating to stay in a group that refuses to work together & communicate.
If you get rid of the 4000 AD daily I think we would have more people in PVP matches who actually want to PVP. Then you wouldn't have people lingering in the spawn just waiting for the timer to run out, which is often when people start quitting.
Most people hang in the spawn after people quit. Hell if people on my team quit and the other team camps my spawn, I'll sit in the spawn just to make the other team wait in boredom.
Well, I was thinking of coming back to NWO to try out the new Ranger class, but it looks like:
1) there is still no penalty for leaving,
2) no separate queue for pre-made/ pugs
3) OP enchants still destroying play at level cap
4) Culture of pvp baddies who think it is fine to leave if losing the match and "queue surf" for a game they are likely to win
5) No system to autobalance matches, or drop new players into games to replace leavers
That's just basic stuff that needs to be fixed, before even looking at leaderboards, rewards, class balance, etc., or me looking at playing this game again.
You used a level system throughout the game why did you stop when you set up the team combat?
The endgame became the gearscore chase, so make the Gearscore the level system for the team Combat.
As for people leaving a match, well people stay for two reasons:
A. There is a chance to win the match.
B. There is a chance to get glory via kills.
If neither of the above is likely then you either sit and wait for the end or leave to try again. You DO NOT give out penalties because someone chose to exercise choice, you give them a reason to stay.
PvP = PLAYER vs PLAYER there is NO PvP in this game. "All about self"
Co-op = Team vs Team we have Co-op in this game. "All about Co-operation"
Remove daily for pvp, that way pvp is for pvp players and u won't have quitting.
YES! great Idea, then all the Co-op players can run around and play with each other... wait that didn't come out righ... No thats right! Then you'll get, "There's not enough people playing" then you'll get "the gear you get with golry is rubbish there's no reason to fight"
HEY! why not just get rid of the whole combat system and concerntrate on the D&D game this is suppose to be? then the whole mess is "POOF" gone
Oh wait thats right, the whole game will die without you all, How could I forget?
Remove daily for pvp, that way pvp is for pvp players and u won't have quitting.
here's a much better proposition:
keep the daily incentive for pvp
provide better matchmaking
provide more pvp domination maps
provide more pvp options (1v1, 10v10, CTF, etc)
this may take a while to happen, but until it does, you're just going to have to accept the fact that some people are going to leave pvp matches and you have the choice to either sit there and wait for your match to be over or quit yourself since the match has essentially been forfeited.
YES! great Idea, then all the Co-op players can run around and play with each other... wait that didn't come out righ... No thats right! Then you'll get, "There's not enough people playing" then you'll get "the gear you get with golry is rubbish there's no reason to fight"
HEY! why not just get rid of the whole combat system and concerntrate on the D&D game this is suppose to be? then the whole mess is "POOF" gone
Oh wait thats right, the whole game will die without you all, How could I forget?
The ones who won't play tend to be the ones who quit at the first sign of a challenge.
More than likely the same type of people who quit after 1-2 wipes on a boss in pve.
Quitters will always be the same, they expect an easy time in most things and I am willing to bet reflects them in real life also.
It's a trait that isn't just for video games.
it's a real shame that there are players that want to penalize people for not wanting to play the way they expect them to in a crippled system. it's also funny that people can just assume that someone doesn't care about something because they're being tight-lipped about it. people want to personify the developers without putting them into proper context: this is a company. this isn't your next door neighbor that is ignoring you every time you try to talk to him about his dog urinating in your bushes.
I'm not asking players to stay no matter what. I'm saying precisely that the current system is bad, and I'm blaming Cryptic, not the players. It would no longer be crippled if people were punished for leaving, you get it? It's basic common sense for a company making a game to implement ways for people not to screw over other people. Instead, they make it more rewarding/efficient for people to screw over other people by leaving. That's my actual complaint.
I'm not personifying them. I'm saying they are obviously not serious about resolving this huge issue. Why? Because if they had been, it would have been prioritized as it should have been, and it would have been solved already.But they are much more interested in the money of the good little consumer who will buy a Guardian pack and spend a lot in the Zen shop.
I'm not asking players to stay no matter what. I'm saying precisely that the current system is bad, and I'm blaming Cryptic, not the players. It would no longer be crippled if people were punished for leaving, you get it?
Umm no it would still be broken. You'd still have ridiculously lopsided matches of PuGs vs. Premades.
What you are really asking for is for people to be punished for refusing to be continually roflstomped by premades.
Remove daily for pvp, that way pvp is for pvp players and u won't have quitting.
I don't think you get daily AD if you quit in the middle. You have to stay there to the end to complete the daily.
Don't remove the daily. Just make the players earn their AD like the other daily quests instead of treating it as another login-do-nothing-get-AD routine like incarnation. Set a criteria for granting players AD instead of just standing there. For instance, you have to deal x damage as a dd, heal y damage as a healer or take z damage as a tank, and/or get a score of n points, to qualify for the daily reward.
I don't think you get daily AD if you quit in the middle. You have to stay there to the end to complete the daily.
Don't remove the daily. Just make the players earn their AD like the other daily quests instead of treating it as another login-do-nothing-get-AD routine like incarnation. Set a criteria for granting players AD instead of just standing there. For instance, you have to deal x damage as a dd, heal y damage as a healer or take z damage as a tank, and/or get a score of n points, to qualify for the daily reward.
No to get glory, or credit for the quest you have to get a minimum of 400 points in a match. That's 1 capture and 2 kills or 4 assists so its not terrible. You can easily get that by just capturing 2 points. The problem comes in the case of PuG vs premade or partial premade (and sometimes just a low geared pug vs a high geared pug) when people get locked out of any points because theyre being spawn camped.
When youre locked out of getting anything I understand why people leave. They end up sitting in a match for 10-15 minutes and get absolutely nothing for it.
For what its worth I do agree that leavers need to be dealt with but the first thing that needs to happen is fixing the matchmaking system. Only then can we really penalize leavers
Comments
I also understand human nature and path of least resistance. People love to play the victim card. It allows them to blame someone else for thier actions or lack of action. Yes humans are smart, they are also lazy. If they dont have to change out of thier green gear to get thier 4k ad each day why would they?
How long are you going to cling to the "fresh 60 in greens" premise? Are you white knighting for all the 60s into thier first match? By now i bet you arent a freshie in greens. Unless anything more "shouldnt" be needed to right-click-leave-party at the first sign of resistance.
So do you have a choice or are you the perpetual vicitm?
Im adamantly against penalization except timed lockouts in the 10-15 min range. If there is a penalty, this should be the only one.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
doubtful.
my new level 10 CW played her first pvp match today. about three minutes in, we had someone disconnect. it wasn't a 'leave party' that i could tell. the player never returned so who knows what the reason was. and the match, even though it was un-even, we were winning by about 100 points through most of it. that is, until the last two minutes or so and the other team managed to cap all three points and won the match.
so why should the player that disconnected be penalized? we did lose and based on our performance, had we been running with a full team, we would have easily won the match. but that's part of the whole point... each of these situations are different. so there would be no way to fairly enforce any kind of penalty system. it's like giving a player a temporary ban for something that could be caused by them or not caused by them.
also, there were no bots in my level 10-19 pvp match. just throwing that out there.
but you can't penalize people for playing the game the way they want to play it. if they're in mixed greens/blues/purples, it doesn't really matter because those are their choices. just like how they choose to play pvp in its current state is their choice. you can't force people to play the way you want them to play. and you can't expect people to play against anyone they don't want to play against for ANY reason they may have. as it's been stated multiple times in this thread (if you did, in fact, read it) people will do whatever is necessary to play the game how they want to play it even if they incorporated pvp penalties. calling them lazy or accusing them of playing the victim is applying unrealistic expectations on multiple players that may have multiple reasons for quitting a match. generalizing it is really just lazy thinking.
- You may quit the match with no penalty, but your character is "locked" in the match, so you cannot join a new match until the match you just quit is over, so you might just as well stay. This means no accidental penalties given to people with network issues etc.
- Players either que for a PUG/partial premade, or a full premade. Full premade is always against full premade with no consideration for ranking.
- The PUG que groups players according to their win-loss ratio. The match maker allows for increasing unbalance of the team with the time it takes to find an even game, so that if many people are queing you have more even matches.
I personally think PvP is boring, but now and then there is a good, even, match which ends in a close win/loss. Due to the rarity of such matches, if it was not for the 4k+8k AD reward I would not bother, since the current system is so messed up. I turn off zone chat in PvP since it is just full of kids whining. If we are down to 3vs5 I still do my best, but once there is only two of us I stay in spawn and look over my professions or /tell friends to organize next dungeon party. I am not wasting five more minutes of my life on something boring with a very predictable outcome.
This said, i PvP a lot as a clanless lone wolf, and i can see that from my experience 90% of the times people quit a match, it's when it gets very one sided. And, i've to say, 90% of the times PvP end up in a 1 sided match. I've been very rarely in head-to-head dominations.
So my question is: ok, we put a penalty for quitters, and a 1 minute limit to stay in spawn, then you get teleported to the battleground. What do you get? People going afk, leaving their char there to get chainkilled by the enemy team once it gets out of spawn, just like a bot. Or getting out of the spawn to get insta-killed by the enemy. Non-stop, till the end of the match.
And i can imagine how much fun can have a winning team, standing there for 10 minutes, swarming weaker players as soon as they get out of the spawn.
First, balance the PvP system. Then think about penalties. I would not join the current PvP pug system, if penalties were applied without any balancing. For example, PvP events: many guilds use those events to go PvP with full premades, to gain more glory. And they would do it even more if a ranking system is created. 99% of the times, a pug against such organized groups will end up in a very 1 sided slaughter (50-1000). Now, imagine if on top of that you're forced to get out of the spawn and get swarmed non-stop till the end of the match.
How many would join PvP events, if they know the already high chance of ending up in a 1 sided slaughter, is even higher?
How many would join PvP pug with the current system+penalties, knowing that most of the time you may end up in a 1 sided slaughter, being forced to get swarmed for 10 minutes till the end of the match?
Having a crappy PvP pug system that can't create balanced matches most of the time is bad, but forcing people to be slaughtered in a unbalanced PvP system is plain stupid.
This. A even match is funny, no matter if you win or lose. You can fight. The current system allows such matches to happen very rarely.
Best way to start, imho, is to
-create different premade and pug queues
-force players who queue in pug, to do it solo (you can't queue for pug PvP while being in a Group, no matter the size. You've to be alone), so that they can't form premades or half premades to fight in pug. Allow the game, and the game only, to form the two teams. 3 guildies want to go pug PvP, they go separated. They may end up in different matches, or against each Others, or, may be, even together. But it's not up to them to decide.
-the game will form the teams looking at both gear (not just gs, but considering armor and weapon enchants too) and a PvP ranking system based on a mix of personal performance and win-loss ratio. Once you queue for PvP, you can't change anything in your equipment.
-if one of the 2 teams is winning for more than 200 points, the game scrambles the two teams using the current match performances as a reference (for example, the best player of the winning team goes to the losing team, and the worst player of the losing team, goes to the winning team).
-glory gain in pugs based only on your performance, and not heavily influenced by losing-winning the way it is now. It's ok to have glory gain based on team performance for premades. But for pugs, it's not good. puggers who PvP to farm glory, don't like to get 1/3 glory, regardless of their performance, just cause their team sucks.
Do this to start, and i guarantee that you'll see a lot less quits. Then, you can start to put penalties for quitters, and a time limit to camp in spawn.
- Quit penalty decreasing while the match proceeds. Quitting in the first 2 minutes gives you a huge penalty, while quitting in the last minute gives you a small penalty. Penalty can be both a certain AD loss, or the player not being able to join a PvP match for a period of time. Or both.
- 30 seconds time limit to stay in spawn. Then you get teleported to the battlefield. The first 2 times you have to get teleported, you get zero penalty. After that, everytime you die, you get injured.
- you can get dc'ed, but you've a limit of times you can get dc'ed during PvP and do not rejoin (meaning only the times you get dc'ed and do not relog count). If you relog in 2 minutes after getting dc'ed, it does not count. Let's say, for example, if you get dc'ed during a PvP match more than 5 times in the same day, and all the time you never relog, you can't join PvP for 12 hours.
Nah, I have decent gear. Yeah, I'll keep posting in defense of the "little guy" until something changes. It took me months to get this gear, it doesn't happen overnight... unless... you know... "The scourge of online gaming" occurs.
For as long people are fresh at 60, not knowledgeable of their class, without wep/armor enhancements, without any semblance of "what do I do?" in a PvP match....
... they need to be matched against same type of adversaries.
Not guys that will constantly one-shot them making a completely frustrating and one-sided match.
ROFL
you know that this is a GAME??? sounds rather like you plan for some communist masterplan.
i think you guys haven't realized that punishing will not lead to happy players. people like playing games were they have fun, not were they are punished for doing certain things. people want rewards, not punishments.
it is the same in real life. if you educate your child by punishing it all the time ("if you write a "c" then you won't get pocket money for three weeks", "if you don't exercise your instrument today you will not get dinner") it will lose its motivation and self-esteem.
There needs to be a ranking system so that team 1 GS isnt 40k total while team 2's total GS is 60k
simple.
I hope that isn't what this forum is about.
I don't really see why anyone on the losing team would gripe that their team members are dropping. Also I am on the winning side a lot(pug team) and it really isn't fun destroying the other team... it might be fun for new people but when you're used to winning all you wish for is another pre-made team so that there will be some decent competition.
We shouldn't be pressured into staying on a team that consists of people that REFUSE to work and communicate as a team, or accept advice.
I think for many PVPers (NOT ALL, just many), that is precisely what this is about. They want to force undergeared, underprepared players to stay in the match so they can continually faceroll them and get some sort of sick pleasure out of roflstomping people.
It's a real shame that the Devs don't care about this. It could have made the whole difference for Module 2. Don't think I'll be playing it until they actually wake up to this problem.
This is because they mostly talk about implementing it in dungeons.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
it's a real shame that there are players that want to penalize people for not wanting to play the way they expect them to in a crippled system. it's also funny that people can just assume that someone doesn't care about something because they're being tight-lipped about it. people want to personify the developers without putting them into proper context: this is a company. this isn't your next door neighbor that is ignoring you every time you try to talk to him about his dog urinating in your bushes.
Agreed. I leave when winning more often than when losing. Losing can be fun and challenging. Winning 1000-0 isn't. However, as you note, sometimes it's too frustrating to stay in a group that refuses to work together & communicate.
Iyon the Dark
Most people hang in the spawn after people quit. Hell if people on my team quit and the other team camps my spawn, I'll sit in the spawn just to make the other team wait in boredom.
1) there is still no penalty for leaving,
2) no separate queue for pre-made/ pugs
3) OP enchants still destroying play at level cap
4) Culture of pvp baddies who think it is fine to leave if losing the match and "queue surf" for a game they are likely to win
5) No system to autobalance matches, or drop new players into games to replace leavers
That's just basic stuff that needs to be fixed, before even looking at leaderboards, rewards, class balance, etc., or me looking at playing this game again.
The endgame became the gearscore chase, so make the Gearscore the level system for the team Combat.
As for people leaving a match, well people stay for two reasons:
A. There is a chance to win the match.
B. There is a chance to get glory via kills.
If neither of the above is likely then you either sit and wait for the end or leave to try again. You DO NOT give out penalties because someone chose to exercise choice, you give them a reason to stay.
PvP = PLAYER vs PLAYER there is NO PvP in this game. "All about self"
Co-op = Team vs Team we have Co-op in this game. "All about Co-operation"
YES! great Idea, then all the Co-op players can run around and play with each other... wait that didn't come out righ... No thats right! Then you'll get, "There's not enough people playing" then you'll get "the gear you get with golry is rubbish there's no reason to fight"
HEY! why not just get rid of the whole combat system and concerntrate on the D&D game this is suppose to be? then the whole mess is "POOF" gone
Oh wait thats right, the whole game will die without you all, How could I forget?
here's a much better proposition:
this may take a while to happen, but until it does, you're just going to have to accept the fact that some people are going to leave pvp matches and you have the choice to either sit there and wait for your match to be over or quit yourself since the match has essentially been forfeited.
The ones who won't play tend to be the ones who quit at the first sign of a challenge.
More than likely the same type of people who quit after 1-2 wipes on a boss in pve.
Quitters will always be the same, they expect an easy time in most things and I am willing to bet reflects them in real life also.
It's a trait that isn't just for video games.
I'm not asking players to stay no matter what. I'm saying precisely that the current system is bad, and I'm blaming Cryptic, not the players. It would no longer be crippled if people were punished for leaving, you get it? It's basic common sense for a company making a game to implement ways for people not to screw over other people. Instead, they make it more rewarding/efficient for people to screw over other people by leaving. That's my actual complaint.
I'm not personifying them. I'm saying they are obviously not serious about resolving this huge issue. Why? Because if they had been, it would have been prioritized as it should have been, and it would have been solved already.But they are much more interested in the money of the good little consumer who will buy a Guardian pack and spend a lot in the Zen shop.
Umm no it would still be broken. You'd still have ridiculously lopsided matches of PuGs vs. Premades.
What you are really asking for is for people to be punished for refusing to be continually roflstomped by premades.
I hope Cryptic read this
I don't think you get daily AD if you quit in the middle. You have to stay there to the end to complete the daily.
Don't remove the daily. Just make the players earn their AD like the other daily quests instead of treating it as another login-do-nothing-get-AD routine like incarnation. Set a criteria for granting players AD instead of just standing there. For instance, you have to deal x damage as a dd, heal y damage as a healer or take z damage as a tank, and/or get a score of n points, to qualify for the daily reward.
No to get glory, or credit for the quest you have to get a minimum of 400 points in a match. That's 1 capture and 2 kills or 4 assists so its not terrible. You can easily get that by just capturing 2 points. The problem comes in the case of PuG vs premade or partial premade (and sometimes just a low geared pug vs a high geared pug) when people get locked out of any points because theyre being spawn camped.
When youre locked out of getting anything I understand why people leave. They end up sitting in a match for 10-15 minutes and get absolutely nothing for it.
For what its worth I do agree that leavers need to be dealt with but the first thing that needs to happen is fixing the matchmaking system. Only then can we really penalize leavers