I'm not asking players to stay no matter what. I'm saying precisely that the current system is bad, and I'm blaming Cryptic, not the players. It would no longer be crippled if people were punished for leaving, you get it? It's basic common sense for a company making a game to implement ways for people not to screw over other people. Instead, they make it more rewarding/efficient for people to screw over other people by leaving. That's my actual complaint.
I'm not personifying them. I'm saying they are obviously not serious about resolving this huge issue. Why? Because if they had been, it would have been prioritized as it should have been, and it would have been solved already.But they are much more interested in the money of the good little consumer who will buy a Guardian pack and spend a lot in the Zen shop.
well... blaming cryptic for bad pvp matchmaking in a game that has been out of open beta for about four months could be construed as completely unrealistic considering that neverwinter is obviously pve-centric. and then expecting them to "fix" the problems in pvp by penalizing players for essentially forfeiting matches kind of goes against the idea of gaming in general. not to mention the incentive to queue up for pvp by offering it as a daily quest.
you can't just assume that the resolution of this issue can be handled by simply penalizing players by giving them some kind of cool-down period for leaving a match because you also have to consider what the outcome of this decision would bring. and that is the point that most of the people that are against penalization have been trying to drive home for those that think it's such a great idea: how do players handle pvp penalties?
here are some possible outcomes:
-less people queuing up for pvp
-people camping out in the spawn area instead of leaving the match
-people bypassing the mechanic that would trigger a penalty by disconnecting from the game in some other way
cryptic would probably also consider whether or not the issue of leaving games is some game-breaking problem. while it's obvious that some pvpers want there to be some way to correct the issue of people leaving matches, the most important question is will implementing a penalty correct the problem or just cause more problems? what other options are there to correct this problem?
logically, making the matchmaking system more complex seems like the right answer, but it's going to come at the cost of taking the time to develop it and test it... so it would take some time to get this into the live server.
and considering the whole idea of playing the game is to have fun, having a pvp match fall apart isn't game-breaking or the end of the world. people can re-queue for more matches. they don't have to stay in a broken pvp match. but perception is everything.
also, there were no bots in my level 10-19 pvp match. just throwing that out there.
I lvled my CW from 40-60 purely pvpn this last weekend. In both brackets this is a understated estimate approx. 85% percent of matches had 1 bot per team. Approx 40% of matches had 2 bots on at least 1 team. 25% 2 bots on both teams. The common names I saw in those brackets were Mikal, Jenn, Jonn, Victor yada yada last name bots. They are super easy to spot. I posted in a previous thread their behaviors but after doing 20 lvls with them, you spot them instantly at the start of the match now. Just throwing that out there. This is taken from 20 lvls of lvling purely pvp, so approx. id say 200+ matches in a 3-4 day span.
I lvled my CW from 40-60 purely pvpn this last weekend. In both brackets this is a understated estimate approx. 85% percent of matches had 1 bot per team. Approx 40% of matches had 2 bots on at least 1 team. 25% 2 bots on both teams. The common names I saw in those brackets were Mikal, Jenn, Jonn, Victor yada yada last name bots. They are super easy to spot. I posted in a previous thread their behaviors but after doing 20 lvls with them, you spot them instantly at the start of the match now. Just throwing that out there. This is taken from 20 lvls of lvling purely pvp, so approx. id say 200+ matches in a 3-4 day span.
You know, I get that you can't ask people to play in a way that they don't enjoy. And I get that there are ways to improve the PvP itself (better match making, etc.). I get all that and I agree.
That said, people quitting out of a match before either team has even reached 50 points....that's bull excrement.
I agree, they need to put in a 24 hour cool down to prevent people from leaving a pvp match. Plain and simple. SO what you lose big deal. so what your facing people who have better gear then you. so what its a one sided slaughter. you will never learn to play, if your not willing to fail a few times.
I am not a fan of the idea of "pvp" balance. in my opinion when you balance pvp you break pve. But, i do believe their a re a few balances that need to put into place. first is perma stealth and ranged combat, in my opinion this is way op to be able to sit in stealth and snipe is just unfair. Thier are a lot of things i have learned to deal with, but the perma stealth ranged rogue is not one of them.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That said, people quitting out of a match before either team has even reached 50 points....that's bull excrement.
Actually, not really.
If all my team goes for homebase at the start of the match, I consider this to be a legitimate reason for leaving that very second (I do write in /party why I leave though, maybe they learn something). If I cap an uncontested point and I get "help" repeatedly, even as I ask them to stop "helping" me, I consider it also a legitimate reason to leave, but this is depending on what happens on the field, 1 moron should not break the game for 3 others.
Why?
Because these actions prove I play with very selfish individuals that also happen to be clueless about the simplest PvP strategies. I can tolerate people in all greens and blues easily, but such selfishness and stupidity, no, never.
You know, I get that you can't ask people to play in a way that they don't enjoy. And I get that there are ways to improve the PvP itself (better match making, etc.). I get all that and I agree.
That said, people quitting out of a match before either team has even reached 50 points....that's bull excrement.
sure... but there is a class of individuals that this thread hasn't even addressed and that would be people that are bored and have a lot of time on their hands. while i have zero proof of this, it wouldn't surprise me if some people occupied their time by queuing up for pvp and dungeons just so they can decline them and join pvp matches and dungeons just to quit seconds or minutes in.
I myself play PvP for fun, and I never quit... ever. If my team got destroyed/left and I am offered 1v1, I sure take it. If not, I just try to survive. It's training. In hard premade matches, surviving 10 seconds instead of 3 against 5 people can make a difference. Anyone should have his own way of facing 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, 1v5.
The daily reward's counting system is the problem here. If you win, you get 2/4 points, if you lose, it's just 1/4.
The "hard way", which I actually support, is giving every player who's leaving the match a 1 - 2 hours timeout.
"Yes... but what about the ones who disconnect?" Ok, let's be fair. If they disconnect for more than 5 minutes, then give them a 1 - 2 hr timeout. There is a difference in leaving party and disconnecting. If they end up in Protector's Enclave/leave party - timeout! If they just disconnect, wait 5 minutes until timeout.
"Yes, but what if someone disconnects for 6 minutes? Why should he be punished?"
Well, it's proportionality. Hard luck! It's worth it for the system. It just happens too rarely, and it's not a 2 hr account ban. It's a PvP timeout.
The other way would be -2/4 points for leaving a match. And it's extremely fair:
- If you have left the game on purpose, because you want 2/4 instead of 1/4 points very fast, you're a d1ck and deserve it.
- If you got disconnected, you have to play another match anyway. The -2 would be like a soft punishment for leaving your team behind, even though it wasn't on purpose. Just like driving a car... even though you haven't noticed the red light, you still get a ticket (or lose your license if you're in Germany... they don't know fun ).
I have been playing PvP since my first day of Neverwinter. I leveled completely through PvP and didn't have good gear all the time. Like (almost) everyone else, I started with Rank 4/5s and PvP gear once I hit lvl 60, and of course I got destroyed by premades lots of times. But this is practice!
If you're saying "I don't care that Spellplague or Karrundax have a 4th boss... just run it fast, bug/exploit everything! I want the reward!", it's your thing! But if you bring that attitude to PvP against other players, you must be punished!
People should be rewarded for losing very badly, then they will stay. It will be like a child learning how to use the refrigerator keeps dropping ice on the ground, do you punish him or give him a lollypop? Punishing him may make him become afraid of the refrigerator and become an adult that doesn't know how to use refrigerators, whereas rewarding him for failure may encourage him to learn how to use the refrigerator better. In this case, keep on pvping and get better. Also, this would be easier to implement. Most importantly, it is easier than implementing a punishment for the kid, yes. In this age of technology and gadgets, you can have it all. You really can have it all.
let me tell you when i quit:
when the other team has best possible armor and weapon you can get and your team doesnt. but that not the reason why i quit : i quit when they start to make jokes and laugh at you and your team!
let me tell you when i quit:
when the other team has best possible armor and weapon you can get and your team doesnt. but that not the reason why i quit : i quit when they start to make jokes and laugh at you and your team!
you said when... I feel like no one usually does that....
if you're losing badly just forfeit and offer for 1 v 1s... gear is not everything, skill is extremely important too
If all my team goes for homebase at the start of the match, I consider this to be a legitimate reason for leaving that very second (I do write in /party why I leave though, maybe they learn something). If I cap an uncontested point and I get "help" repeatedly, even as I ask them to stop "helping" me, I consider it also a legitimate reason to leave, but this is depending on what happens on the field, 1 moron should not break the game for 3 others.
Why?
Because these actions prove I play with very selfish individuals that also happen to be clueless about the simplest PvP strategies. I can tolerate people in all greens and blues easily, but such selfishness and stupidity, no, never.
I can agree with the principle, just not the specifics. Yes, a lack of team coordination can be really frustrating. I hate heading out of the gate towards 2 only to have the other four on my team head to 1 because I know the odds are I'm running into a beatdown and it's probably not going to get better. But the operative word is 'probably'. I get bailing if things start out that way and your team goes down 150-10 after two or three minutes. I still don't quit then, but I really wouldn't fault anyone for doing so. I just think doing so on the off is premature.
As for having the unneeded help, again I don't fault that. But, I would say if you've had to ask repeatedly for them to cease and desust then the match has gone on long enough to not really apply to context I was referring.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
neskolf, if 4 guys go to the homebase and stay and cap, while the other team caps 2 points, they are idiots and don't deserve your efforts.
If people come to "help" me capturing homebase while I'm lonely and sing songs at the skies, they are idiots and don't deserve your efforts. There are exceptions to this rule, such as:
- I'm a CW, my team has a backcapper TR/GWF, he just died at their home and I'm going there to contest/capture so their team doesn't get points. Now, when the backapper ressurects, he should come back to his job, usually, and I'd leave the point to him and go do my job (and not stay to "help" him cap the point if he's alone, while the rest of our team is outnumbered elsewhere).
These are elementary tactics, and if one player goes on the battlefield to do his job instead of just accumulating those 300 points (who the hell cares about them?!?), then he is worthy of respect... if he only runs between points just to get more of those 300 easy ones, then he is a plain moron and why even bother?
However, ideally you would talk to these guys and explain what they are doing wrong before leaving. Some people are new and are completely not guilty.
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faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited November 2013
They need to first fix their system before putting in a leaving debuff as sometimes it breaks apart your team you are in and you have to leave to go and be with your team.
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ugottomangoMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
i agree it is very one sided most of the time and the gear needs improvement and maybe a mount also you can buy better gear in the auction house
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mercurial257Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
If they penalize players for leaving atm, no one will pvp. There are too many matches where pubs often face premade teams....utterly resulting in catastrophic losses and boredom for the pub side. If there was ranked pvp (a system in which you could "competitively queue up", then the players on the team who quit should be penalized. However, since there is no system and never will be, by penalizing players who leave matches because of premades vs. pubs, it will result in almost no 1 ever queuing except organized team vs team fights.
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methilloMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 26Arc User
edited November 2013
There are too many issues with the current pvp system.
A GS rank would be a start, i don't mind getting my *** whipped every now and them, i usually play with my 12k GS sent GWF and it happens that i have on my team people with less than 10k GS wearing greens and blues, I'm fine with it but some people aren't and they leave when they see their team mates with such a low GS.
Zone and say chat should be removed in pvp (hell i would even suggest names) since if your are losing badly, you don't need to be bully because of it, therefore more people quit.
Remove the kill count, i have seen people that play to kill instead of team playing to dominate.
What i don't see a solution for is people quiting because their team goes cap home base first, come on, that happens but deal with it or look for your premade but don't quit. when i stay alone in the middle point and see the rest of my team capping the home base either i tell them to come aid me or deal with it quietly.
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twstdechoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 630Bounty Hunter
When I'm in a team that stomps another, I always offer the people the chance to cap points for credit. Sadly, sometimes the rest of my team isn't so accommodating or they refuse to cap for points and instead attack me...at which point I assume they want a 1v1 and attack back.
This. I play mostly with my Guild and we always make sure the other team gets their minimum score for credit if things aren't balanced.
I played in a random queue the other day and ended up in a horrible mismatch against a pre-made team from another guild (who I shall not name... this time). As soon as the two of our team realized it was a pre-made team we were facing, they quit, and the remaining three of us spent the rest of the match fighting 3-5. Fine, I've been on the other side of that, and it sucks all the way around, but when you end up facing a team of only 3 players, having the audacity to camp by their spawn point to "prove how great you are" is simply asinine. There are much easier ways to let us all know how small your manhood is.
First you balance PvP, then you give penalties. That's the way to do these things. You can't create a PvP system that has a high % of VERY unbalanced, 1 sided, matches, and then just give penalties to the losers.
Also: many players do PvP for glory. That's the reward. Right now, glory gain is HIGHLY infleunced by who wins. You make X points and win, you get Y glory. You make X points and lose, you gain half the glory. No matter how you perform, you still get less glory.
I think that a glory gain system based on single performances should be better for pugs.
For premades and guild vs guild, a team based reward system is ok, since they are a real Group.
A pug is not a real Group, everyone is there for his own sake, and don't want the other random team members to lower his reward.
Also, a 1v1 arena would be good, since many kiddies seem to do not understand that domination is 5v5 and keep looking for duels during the match.
Good to see that I'm not alone in being dissappointed in the current PvP system.
Even better is to see someone come up with well reasoned and presented points that offer constructive ways to fix the system.
A couple of questions though if I may.
Is anyone aware of any efforts to rectify the problems?
Has there been an official response on the matter?
I hate coming to game forums like this but I had to this time. I agree with the OP, people that quit these PvP matches should be penalized. I say give their accounts a 12 hour ban on queuing for PvP. It's getting ridiculous and making PvP matches unplayable. I have been on both sides with teams that lost quitters and teams that win easy matches. I am getting sick and tired of it and it is taking away the fun of PvP and this game. Some of you quitters could learn some things by staying in these tough matches that you drop from.
It's getting really bad. It is unusual now to see a match stay 5v5 the entire time.
there hasn't been any indication that this has or has not been discussed with the lead developer. and even if there was, you likely wouldn't get an official response unless it was something they were going to implement. and you'd get that official response via patch notes.
it's not unusual to see a match stay 5v5. i ran two back to back last night. that was two consecutive pvp matches... none before and none after. no premade. just pug.
but of course, your mileage may vary.
as for a 12 hour ban... that will never happen. as a matter of fact, i would be very surprised to see any kind of in-game penalties implemented for people that quit pvp or dungeon parties. there are just too many variables at play across the board. if you can't see past "they must be a bunch of losers for quitting" then it may be time for you to step away from your angry chair for a while.
They need to do something about balancing before punishing quitters. After your 4th straight PvP encountering 1 Sentinel, 2 perma-CC Outofcontrol Wizards and a TR you can never see, it gets old in a hurry.
And no, not all of us want to use the exact same PvP-specific premade build nor do we want to be a CW, TR or GWF.
In two months of gameplay I have had ONE balanced PVP experience. It took 17-minutes and when we reached 1000 points they had 953 points. In fact, we only won with a late surge to cap two points as they hit 900 before us. For the balance my experience in PvP has been that of polar extremes; either my team is getting smashed to pieces (70% of the time) or we are doing the smashing (30%).
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
If there's going to be penalties for quitters, then there also ought to be penalties for unsportsmanlike conduct.
Griefing, ganking, trash talking in zone chat, dragging players out of spawn with AOE, all of that should be penalized as well, if you're going to penalize quitters.
Sometimes my server loses connection and/or my battery dies. I don't want to be "punished" for something like that...
Also...what if something else happens out of my control. Like...my little brother runs out of the house or my mom ends up in the hospital?
I really think the better solution is to better balance the player classes so its less frustrating. I hate it when I get on a team with no cleric and too many players of my class. And then the other team has a cleric or two and better balance!
I'm a control wizard. We don't take damage that well...so we try to hang back in the fight. You can't have everyone hanging back!
You should be able to leave when you want, otherwise you will just get afker's campfire dancing instead. .
PvP is A mini/side-game.
Correct. You should be able to leave whenever you want. But, leaving voluntarily should result in a stiff punishment. Because of 1 person leaving, it ruins the playtime of 9 other people. NINE. How this in your world is acceptable behavior is beyond me, and the entire reason why there are so many quitters in PvP. Because they have mindsets like yours. "Oh, I can just quit and join another team until I find the one right for me".
That's total <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. You aren't a true PvP'r, and you are unwilling to work for a win, you want things handed to you.
PvP a side game? The majority of money coming into this game is from the PvP'rs, and I would be surprised if PvP isn't played more then PvE as a whole.
I wish they would take away the PvP dailys completely. Then people like you would have no reason to PvP and constantly screw up our matches.
Correct. You should be able to leave whenever you want. But, leaving voluntarily should result in a stiff punishment. Because of 1 person leaving, it ruins the playtime of 9 other people. NINE. How this in your world is acceptable behavior is beyond me, and the entire reason why there are so many quitters in PvP. Because they have mindsets like yours. "Oh, I can just quit and join another team until I find the one right for me".
That's total <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. You aren't a true PvP'r, and you are unwilling to work for a win, you want things handed to you.
PvP a side game? The majority of money coming into this game is from the PvP'rs, and I would be surprised if PvP isn't played more then PvE as a whole.
I wish they would take away the PvP dailys completely. Then people like you would have no reason to PvP and constantly screw up our matches.
look around you... module 1 and module 2 don't have all these massive pvp additions that have been suggested time and time again in these forums. you can claim that pvp is the big money maker here but you don't really have any proof of that. if i were to wager a guess, i'd say the big ticket items are fast mounts, lockbox keys and promotions. if pvp was the big money maker then you would have far more people queuing up for pvp matches and less people forfeiting matches because everyone would be geared up to the hilt.
pvp domination isn't even true pvp. it's let's score the most points by dominating caps.
pvp is for everyone... not just for pvp-centric guilds or "true pvp'ers". it should be a fair match and you can't deny that right now, that's not always happening. if people aren't having fun, then they have every right to leave a match without being penalized. if you're saying pvp isn't fun if you can't continually kill some guy that just hit level 60 who's trying to gain glory or rAD so he can get to be where you are... can you see the issue here?
Quite funny, I had a game vs a member from one of the top pvping guilds against us & one of our Pugs left immediately after we lost the first engagement. The que quickly filled in the missing 5th place and on our second engagement we pushed so hard to their base we basically won the game. Lesson being is even losing the first engagement you can change up your strategy and still win. Poor pug lost out on his extra glory for being on the winning side eh I am for making a reasonable penalty for leaving a game, when you leave within the first x amount of time you should get a deserter "debuff" like back in the old days of WoW and not be able to que for 20 minutes. This is a harsh enough penalty that makes you rather wait through an entire match and lose and or take deserter and reque in the amount of time two matches would of elapsed. I am sure there are a many good theories, Cryptic just needs to focus a little more on PVP and balance out a few issues to make this an excellent system.
-Pestilence
Foundry Missions ;
By ; @pestilence149
Gladiators of Dhara (Easy) & (Hard)
ELIGIBLE FOR THE DAILY FOUNDRY REWARDS!
Search by Best : Name/Summary/Short-Code ; Gladiators
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Any feedback and suggestions are welcome please enjoy!
Why youhave to penalize someone only because don't wont to face uber pvpers gear? Maybe, the quitter simply look for some equal pvp when they can have a chance to kill someone. Personally, i would like to leave to some pvp when all the time i get killed in 4 atk or they use me like a flipper. I don't simply do it, because i don't care for all the time i fall, i only lich glory for the new item ^^
just because people are willing to spend money to pvp doesnt make it more than a side game. Same like in other MMOs where people will pay absurd amount to make twinks, This is the same but max level twinking.
With only 1 mode and 2 maps, and no updates, Its only a tiny fraction of this game. Look at Guild wars games, now thats a game where they make PvP into a focus.
Game where you grind (pve) or pay real money for the best PvP stuff (which happens to be rank 10s, tenebrous, whatevers), cannot be taken seriously as a PvP game.
I don't know why people get so uppity about PvP, its fun sure, and a great addition to the game (to fund pwe/cryptic). But lets be honest, its not something that is a focus here, and i doubt ever will. If they made ranking in PvP, match making, gear from rating. I'm pretty sure keeping it a playground for twinks as it currently is now nets them alot more profit now than it would otherwise.
Comments
well... blaming cryptic for bad pvp matchmaking in a game that has been out of open beta for about four months could be construed as completely unrealistic considering that neverwinter is obviously pve-centric. and then expecting them to "fix" the problems in pvp by penalizing players for essentially forfeiting matches kind of goes against the idea of gaming in general. not to mention the incentive to queue up for pvp by offering it as a daily quest.
you can't just assume that the resolution of this issue can be handled by simply penalizing players by giving them some kind of cool-down period for leaving a match because you also have to consider what the outcome of this decision would bring. and that is the point that most of the people that are against penalization have been trying to drive home for those that think it's such a great idea: how do players handle pvp penalties?
here are some possible outcomes:
-less people queuing up for pvp
-people camping out in the spawn area instead of leaving the match
-people bypassing the mechanic that would trigger a penalty by disconnecting from the game in some other way
cryptic would probably also consider whether or not the issue of leaving games is some game-breaking problem. while it's obvious that some pvpers want there to be some way to correct the issue of people leaving matches, the most important question is will implementing a penalty correct the problem or just cause more problems? what other options are there to correct this problem?
logically, making the matchmaking system more complex seems like the right answer, but it's going to come at the cost of taking the time to develop it and test it... so it would take some time to get this into the live server.
and considering the whole idea of playing the game is to have fun, having a pvp match fall apart isn't game-breaking or the end of the world. people can re-queue for more matches. they don't have to stay in a broken pvp match. but perception is everything.
I lvled my CW from 40-60 purely pvpn this last weekend. In both brackets this is a understated estimate approx. 85% percent of matches had 1 bot per team. Approx 40% of matches had 2 bots on at least 1 team. 25% 2 bots on both teams. The common names I saw in those brackets were Mikal, Jenn, Jonn, Victor yada yada last name bots. They are super easy to spot. I posted in a previous thread their behaviors but after doing 20 lvls with them, you spot them instantly at the start of the match now. Just throwing that out there. This is taken from 20 lvls of lvling purely pvp, so approx. id say 200+ matches in a 3-4 day span.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
ymmv for sure. i ran one match. you ran several.
That said, people quitting out of a match before either team has even reached 50 points....that's bull excrement.
I am not a fan of the idea of "pvp" balance. in my opinion when you balance pvp you break pve. But, i do believe their a re a few balances that need to put into place. first is perma stealth and ranged combat, in my opinion this is way op to be able to sit in stealth and snipe is just unfair. Thier are a lot of things i have learned to deal with, but the perma stealth ranged rogue is not one of them.
Actually, not really.
If all my team goes for homebase at the start of the match, I consider this to be a legitimate reason for leaving that very second (I do write in /party why I leave though, maybe they learn something). If I cap an uncontested point and I get "help" repeatedly, even as I ask them to stop "helping" me, I consider it also a legitimate reason to leave, but this is depending on what happens on the field, 1 moron should not break the game for 3 others.
Why?
Because these actions prove I play with very selfish individuals that also happen to be clueless about the simplest PvP strategies. I can tolerate people in all greens and blues easily, but such selfishness and stupidity, no, never.
sure... but there is a class of individuals that this thread hasn't even addressed and that would be people that are bored and have a lot of time on their hands. while i have zero proof of this, it wouldn't surprise me if some people occupied their time by queuing up for pvp and dungeons just so they can decline them and join pvp matches and dungeons just to quit seconds or minutes in.
some people just want to watch the world burn.
There are two reasons why people play PvP:
1. For fun.
2. For the daily reward.
I myself play PvP for fun, and I never quit... ever. If my team got destroyed/left and I am offered 1v1, I sure take it. If not, I just try to survive. It's training. In hard premade matches, surviving 10 seconds instead of 3 against 5 people can make a difference. Anyone should have his own way of facing 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, 1v5.
The daily reward's counting system is the problem here. If you win, you get 2/4 points, if you lose, it's just 1/4.
The "hard way", which I actually support, is giving every player who's leaving the match a 1 - 2 hours timeout.
"Yes... but what about the ones who disconnect?" Ok, let's be fair. If they disconnect for more than 5 minutes, then give them a 1 - 2 hr timeout. There is a difference in leaving party and disconnecting. If they end up in Protector's Enclave/leave party - timeout! If they just disconnect, wait 5 minutes until timeout.
"Yes, but what if someone disconnects for 6 minutes? Why should he be punished?"
Well, it's proportionality. Hard luck! It's worth it for the system. It just happens too rarely, and it's not a 2 hr account ban. It's a PvP timeout.
The other way would be -2/4 points for leaving a match. And it's extremely fair:
- If you have left the game on purpose, because you want 2/4 instead of 1/4 points very fast, you're a d1ck and deserve it.
- If you got disconnected, you have to play another match anyway. The -2 would be like a soft punishment for leaving your team behind, even though it wasn't on purpose. Just like driving a car... even though you haven't noticed the red light, you still get a ticket (or lose your license if you're in Germany... they don't know fun
I have been playing PvP since my first day of Neverwinter. I leveled completely through PvP and didn't have good gear all the time. Like (almost) everyone else, I started with Rank 4/5s and PvP gear once I hit lvl 60, and of course I got destroyed by premades lots of times. But this is practice!
If you're saying "I don't care that Spellplague or Karrundax have a 4th boss... just run it fast, bug/exploit everything! I want the reward!", it's your thing! But if you bring that attitude to PvP against other players, you must be punished!
when the other team has best possible armor and weapon you can get and your team doesnt. but that not the reason why i quit : i quit when they start to make jokes and laugh at you and your team!
if you're losing badly just forfeit and offer for 1 v 1s... gear is not everything, skill is extremely important too
I can agree with the principle, just not the specifics. Yes, a lack of team coordination can be really frustrating. I hate heading out of the gate towards 2 only to have the other four on my team head to 1 because I know the odds are I'm running into a beatdown and it's probably not going to get better. But the operative word is 'probably'. I get bailing if things start out that way and your team goes down 150-10 after two or three minutes. I still don't quit then, but I really wouldn't fault anyone for doing so. I just think doing so on the off is premature.
As for having the unneeded help, again I don't fault that. But, I would say if you've had to ask repeatedly for them to cease and desust then the match has gone on long enough to not really apply to context I was referring.
If people come to "help" me capturing homebase while I'm lonely and sing songs at the skies, they are idiots and don't deserve your efforts. There are exceptions to this rule, such as:
- I'm a CW, my team has a backcapper TR/GWF, he just died at their home and I'm going there to contest/capture so their team doesn't get points. Now, when the backapper ressurects, he should come back to his job, usually, and I'd leave the point to him and go do my job (and not stay to "help" him cap the point if he's alone, while the rest of our team is outnumbered elsewhere).
These are elementary tactics, and if one player goes on the battlefield to do his job instead of just accumulating those 300 points (who the hell cares about them?!?), then he is worthy of respect... if he only runs between points just to get more of those 300 easy ones, then he is a plain moron and why even bother?
However, ideally you would talk to these guys and explain what they are doing wrong before leaving. Some people are new and are completely not guilty.
A GS rank would be a start, i don't mind getting my *** whipped every now and them, i usually play with my 12k GS sent GWF and it happens that i have on my team people with less than 10k GS wearing greens and blues, I'm fine with it but some people aren't and they leave when they see their team mates with such a low GS.
Zone and say chat should be removed in pvp (hell i would even suggest names) since if your are losing badly, you don't need to be bully because of it, therefore more people quit.
Remove the kill count, i have seen people that play to kill instead of team playing to dominate.
What i don't see a solution for is people quiting because their team goes cap home base first, come on, that happens but deal with it or look for your premade but don't quit. when i stay alone in the middle point and see the rest of my team capping the home base either i tell them to come aid me or deal with it quietly.
This. I play mostly with my Guild and we always make sure the other team gets their minimum score for credit if things aren't balanced.
I played in a random queue the other day and ended up in a horrible mismatch against a pre-made team from another guild (who I shall not name... this time). As soon as the two of our team realized it was a pre-made team we were facing, they quit, and the remaining three of us spent the rest of the match fighting 3-5. Fine, I've been on the other side of that, and it sucks all the way around, but when you end up facing a team of only 3 players, having the audacity to camp by their spawn point to "prove how great you are" is simply asinine. There are much easier ways to let us all know how small your manhood is.
Good to see that I'm not alone in being dissappointed in the current PvP system.
Even better is to see someone come up with well reasoned and presented points that offer constructive ways to fix the system.
A couple of questions though if I may.
Is anyone aware of any efforts to rectify the problems?
Has there been an official response on the matter?
It's getting really bad. It is unusual now to see a match stay 5v5 the entire time.
it's not unusual to see a match stay 5v5. i ran two back to back last night. that was two consecutive pvp matches... none before and none after. no premade. just pug.
but of course, your mileage may vary.
as for a 12 hour ban... that will never happen. as a matter of fact, i would be very surprised to see any kind of in-game penalties implemented for people that quit pvp or dungeon parties. there are just too many variables at play across the board. if you can't see past "they must be a bunch of losers for quitting" then it may be time for you to step away from your angry chair for a while.
And no, not all of us want to use the exact same PvP-specific premade build nor do we want to be a CW, TR or GWF.
In two months of gameplay I have had ONE balanced PVP experience. It took 17-minutes and when we reached 1000 points they had 953 points. In fact, we only won with a late surge to cap two points as they hit 900 before us. For the balance my experience in PvP has been that of polar extremes; either my team is getting smashed to pieces (70% of the time) or we are doing the smashing (30%).
You should be able to leave when you want, otherwise you will just get afker's campfire dancing instead. So i do not see the point.
What this game needs is match-making/ranking system.
Otherwise just leave PvP as it is, A mini/side-game.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Griefing, ganking, trash talking in zone chat, dragging players out of spawn with AOE, all of that should be penalized as well, if you're going to penalize quitters.
Also...what if something else happens out of my control. Like...my little brother runs out of the house or my mom ends up in the hospital?
I really think the better solution is to better balance the player classes so its less frustrating. I hate it when I get on a team with no cleric and too many players of my class. And then the other team has a cleric or two and better balance!
I'm a control wizard. We don't take damage that well...so we try to hang back in the fight. You can't have everyone hanging back!
Correct. You should be able to leave whenever you want. But, leaving voluntarily should result in a stiff punishment. Because of 1 person leaving, it ruins the playtime of 9 other people. NINE. How this in your world is acceptable behavior is beyond me, and the entire reason why there are so many quitters in PvP. Because they have mindsets like yours. "Oh, I can just quit and join another team until I find the one right for me".
That's total <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. You aren't a true PvP'r, and you are unwilling to work for a win, you want things handed to you.
PvP a side game? The majority of money coming into this game is from the PvP'rs, and I would be surprised if PvP isn't played more then PvE as a whole.
I wish they would take away the PvP dailys completely. Then people like you would have no reason to PvP and constantly screw up our matches.
look around you... module 1 and module 2 don't have all these massive pvp additions that have been suggested time and time again in these forums. you can claim that pvp is the big money maker here but you don't really have any proof of that. if i were to wager a guess, i'd say the big ticket items are fast mounts, lockbox keys and promotions. if pvp was the big money maker then you would have far more people queuing up for pvp matches and less people forfeiting matches because everyone would be geared up to the hilt.
pvp domination isn't even true pvp. it's let's score the most points by dominating caps.
pvp is for everyone... not just for pvp-centric guilds or "true pvp'ers". it should be a fair match and you can't deny that right now, that's not always happening. if people aren't having fun, then they have every right to leave a match without being penalized. if you're saying pvp isn't fun if you can't continually kill some guy that just hit level 60 who's trying to gain glory or rAD so he can get to be where you are... can you see the issue here?
-Pestilence
By ; @pestilence149
Gladiators of Dhara (Easy) & (Hard)
ELIGIBLE FOR THE DAILY FOUNDRY REWARDS!
Search by Best : Name/Summary/Short-Code ; Gladiators
NW-DJJS7OWZI (For easy)
NW-DPT9I8RKF (For hard)
Any feedback and suggestions are welcome please enjoy!
With only 1 mode and 2 maps, and no updates, Its only a tiny fraction of this game. Look at Guild wars games, now thats a game where they make PvP into a focus.
Game where you grind (pve) or pay real money for the best PvP stuff (which happens to be rank 10s, tenebrous, whatevers), cannot be taken seriously as a PvP game.
I don't know why people get so uppity about PvP, its fun sure, and a great addition to the game (to fund pwe/cryptic). But lets be honest, its not something that is a focus here, and i doubt ever will. If they made ranking in PvP, match making, gear from rating. I'm pretty sure keeping it a playground for twinks as it currently is now nets them alot more profit now than it would otherwise.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".