You got that right, man. And the fun part is that it's not just rogues. I've seen GWF's, CW's and GF's who can murder me and force me to make mistakes. It's because of them that I can get better in PVP and learned to counter and adapt to the popular counters people like to use against us in PVP such as AoE's. Though the scariest and most dangerous players I've seen are from the GF group, since their Bull Rush needs a target before activating. They can just spam the key for Bull Rush while we contest the node, and once they hover their reticules over our silhouettes, we're pretty much screwed.
Good thing there's Duelist's Flurry, though. We fake the first 2 hits and make sure the third hit lands, and they would usually use their Bull Rush during those 2 seconds we use the third hit of DF because we are within melee range when this happens. But during these 2 seconds, we're immune to any CC effect. So their prones will not work, we get to stack bleeds, we burn their shields too if they choose to block after they use their prone encounters. Using ITC after which will prevent them from dealing significant amounts of damage and would also prevent us from getting CC'd while we use DF again. GF's aren't the most mobile of classes.
Tnx todesfaelle again for another great guide, keep up the good work I like the many possibilities we have and if I decide to respec or reroll another perma TR it will be based on ur guides...Oh and what i have seen someone posted bout the new skills we will get i think ur guide will be perfect for them since its based on ranged more then melee..
It's my pleasure! I hope you have fun with it once you decide to make it. As for the upcoming Whisperknife Paragon Path, I definitely will not be respec-ing due to how useful ITC is for me and how imperative Gloaming Cut is for this build. I like using DF and Gloaming Cut in PVP a lot.
But I want to try a build that concentrates on ranged attacks in the future too, so I'll probably roll a new rogue just for it.
hey todesfalle, just letting u know the 20 int tr i rolled is just about to hit 60 and well i still gota farm him that duelist set, but i took him down that scoundrel path and its pretty neat, he is already a daily casting machine with just around 5oo recovery in green gear XD.
I did change change somethings from what u proposed back then, like taking improved cunning stalker for the ap instead of the itc buff (300-400 power dont seem much really) and using invisible infiltrator instead of skillfull, not that crit focused and a being a daily spammer 15% dmg for 6 secs + stealth refill seems better.
Ill keep u informed when i finish gearing him up and test it with the proper set and my intended 2.2-2.4 recovery.
Please do! More experiences and test results are always welcome. I've yet to collect my own Master Duelist set to test the INT Scoundrel build for myself. My guildie liked the build but I can never really tell unless I try it. I like the idea of a Daily-Casting Machine type of build. Keep us posted, Ximae!
the scoundrel is lvl 60 now and already managed to get the bracers in this mornings DD as for the rest im still running all blue XD. but hey with the just under 2300 rec im at a very nice 29.6 rsi... enough to bring itc under 14 sec, dazing to under 8 sec and wr to 3 sec cooldowns. Basically i was running debuff in the dungeon wr+(pawstyle )dazing + courage breaker... its a nice change in playstyle, loving my ap gains (cant remember the number but stupid high since on top of the int and rec i rolled high elf XD) but the dps aint too great specially considering im rolling blue weapons XD.
I still need the whole set though thats when i think it is really going to shine as ill be cutting cds everywhere at a 1 sec per 2 seconds of at wills, meaning one wr cast every 2 secs (or one sly rotation), dazing every 5 secs (almost permastunning a small area) and should be able to have itc ready again about 5-6 secs after it wears off.
what im having trouble is deciding what to roll in the defensive slots... not sure wheather to go defense, deflect or ls. As in any case none are going to get very high.
defense will cut in the damage taken and will benefit reducing further itcs deflected damage taken. the set has deflect already so i could probably get it up to 1200 so (something like 23-24% deflect chance total) but still will be wasted whenever itc is up, which will be often. and ls well help healing up but probably wont be able to get it past some 6% which by experience isnt that noticeable.
That's awesome. My ITC's like 13.8 right now. I like it. If you're missing the chest piece, come contact me in the game and I'll give you mine. I haven't had the time to farm for the pieces so I might as well give it to someone who can perform the tests.
Thx for the offer but i already have the set. Still testing stuff, but here is a short vid ( sorry for the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> quality) of ap gains.
I get a full ap bar in around 20-25 secs of encounter smashing, could play the defensive cooldowns more smartly for less damage taken in exchange for less ap.. but this setup would be more for dungeons where u got a dc healing u up and not for soloing.
God that is so cool, Ximae! I'm sold. I like how much utility we can attain with Action Rush's ability to give us huge chunks of AP in bursts. I like it and I might roll a different character just for this new build but will still test it first in the Preview so I can get a good feel of it. Action Rush looks so fun.
Maybe i'm just stupid, but I don't seem to get this. I see people in this thread talking about how amazing this build is, and how they've soloed whole dungeons with it.
Yet I don't see it. I just don't get it, and I don't get stealth. First off, stealth doesn't seem to do anything in combat. I still get beat on, I still get hit, and for just as much damage as if I wasn't stealthed. Secondly, I can't stealth past any mobs, because they seem to see me anyways. They get ? symbols above their heads and as soon as stealth fades, they rush me.
Hi. There seems to be some misconception about Stealth in your post. Stealth merely removes us from sight, nothing more, nothing less. Think of it as invisibility, not invulnerability. The thing is, f we get to close, we get detected. Which is why it's best to play with stealth carefully most specially in PVP. The behavior of PVE mobs are easy to predict and learn, but thinking/learning human beings in PVP are another issue. A lot of them will adapt in the middle of the game against your strategies and most of the PVP-ers I know have strategies to take us out of Stealth quickly. It's now up to us as to how we'll adapt to this and counter their strategies.
Stealth also does not have any effects that reduce damage, which is where proceeding carefully in combat comes into play. You don't faceroll people and mobs and expect them to not do anything. They will hit back if they can. Mobs do this by spamming AoE skills if they have any available, same with bosses. There are also some mobs which have hard-target skills. This means that whether we are in stealth or not, their skills will target our position but technically they really can't see us. A good example of these mobs are Driders.
But the challenging ones are the mobs that can see through stealth. Best example are the intellect devourers in the last boss room in Epic Dread Vaults. They will see us in stealth and they will attack us if we have the highest threat generated.
Also, you most definitely can't stealth past mobs. Once they get that "?" sign on their heads, you're a target to them until you get out of the combat situation, or until you're past a certain distance away from them. This build will require you to familiarize yourself with the behaviors of mobs in PVE, and it takes some getting used to. In PVP this build also performs VERY, VERY poorly. That is until you get the hang of things. Burst DPS is king in PVP. This build doesn't have that.
If there are any other questions please feel free to lay them down in another post. We'd be more than happy to assist a fellow player in need of help.
Hi. There seems to be some misconception about Stealth in your post. Stealth merely removes us from sight, nothing more, nothing less. Think of it as invisibility, not invulnerability. The thing is, f we get to close, we get detected. Which is why it's best to play with stealth carefully most specially in PVP. The behavior of PVE mobs are easy to predict and learn, but thinking/learning human beings in PVP are another issue. A lot of them will adapt in the middle of the game against your strategies and most of the PVP-ers I know have strategies to take us out of Stealth quickly. It's now up to us as to how we'll adapt to this and counter their strategies.
Stealth also does not have any effects that reduce damage, which is where proceeding carefully in combat comes into play. You don't faceroll people and mobs and expect them to not do anything. They will hit back if they can. Mobs do this by spamming AoE skills if they have any available, same with bosses. There are also some mobs which have hard-target skills. This means that whether we are in stealth or not, their skills will target our position but technically they really can't see us. A good example of these mobs are Driders.
But the challenging ones are the mobs that can see through stealth. Best example are the intellect devourers in the last boss room in Epic Dread Vaults. They will see us in stealth and they will attack us if we have the highest threat generated.
Also, you most definitely can't stealth past mobs. Once they get that "?" sign on their heads, you're a target to them until you get out of the combat situation, or until you're past a certain distance away from them. This build will require you to familiarize yourself with the behaviors of mobs in PVE, and it takes some getting used to. In PVP this build also performs VERY, VERY poorly. That is until you get the hang of things. Burst DPS is king in PVP. This build doesn't have that.
If there are any other questions please feel free to lay them down in another post. We'd be more than happy to assist a fellow player in need of help.
Hi. You pretty much have just confirmed what I've already seen, so this really makes me wonder what is the purpose of stealth as a class mechanic? First off, I only play in PvE, so we can forget about PvP.
So far i've not seen ANY benefit whatsoever to having stealth on my character. This is my "tab" ability such as Block on a guardian or Spell Mastery on my Wizard, so what special thing does it do for me? So far I can't figure that out. I can't sneak past mobs. Whether I use Stealth or not, the result is exactly the same. In combat obviously the mob is still hitting me whether I am in stealth or not, so again no difference using it.
I'm having a real hard time understanding 1) Why is the benefit of stealth, and 2) Why is this build focused on keeping it up as often as possible, since it seems to have no benefit?
I'm very new to this game. I've tried the TR, CW, and GF and I like my rogue the most. I'm currently level 20 and following your guide with my TR, but having a real hard time understanding stealth and its benefits so frankly I just don't use it. I see people in here for example talking about soloing the Cloak Tower, which I sure as heck could not do.
Thanks in advance for any help in understanding you can give, and thanks for your guide. I may not understand the stealth but at least your guide gives me some focus and guidance rather than flailing about trying things.
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andferne3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 104Bounty Hunter
edited October 2013
While in stealth you gain Combat Advantage, which in returns gives you an increased chance for damage. It typically is symbolized as a yellow sword next to your damage numbers.
Yes you can indeed sneak passed mobs, and Tode, explained that pretty clearly on how/why.
Why does stealth help? Well as Tode also explained only elite types of mobs will see you and target you while in Stealth. Try not to stand in front of things when you are attacking, as that is what it sounds like you are doing. See a red circle on the ground, move out of it.
God that is so cool, Ximae! I'm sold. I like how much utility we can attain with Action Rush's ability to give us huge chunks of AP in bursts. I like it and I might roll a different character just for this new build but will still test it first in the Preview so I can get a good feel of it. Action Rush looks so fun.
yeah just test it out on preview u already have the stat rolls, which is what made me have to roll a new one. That way u can see if u like it at no risk.
on the other hand my soloing rotation (shadowstrike/itc) still flikers me out of stealth/itc for a brief moment as the timing is so tight but that is also because i took dps heroic feats, would be solved by taking the extended stealth one. I might go on to preview too to respec it and test. As I will still be able to take the 6% damage on encounters and coming out of stealth feats (synergise well with scoundrels last feat) while still getting the stealth one for gaining that extra sec in stealth to keep me perma-untargeteable, at the cost of disciple of strenght and scoundrel training.
I'm having a real hard time understanding 1) Why is the benefit of stealth, and 2) Why is this build focused on keeping it up as often as possible, since it seems to have no benefit?
1 - It has the advantage of greater damage in stealth and greater survival
2 - Allows you to win over enemies much stronger than you ex: myself already won rogues with perferct VORPA in x1
Hi. You pretty much have just confirmed what I've already seen, so this really makes me wonder what is the purpose of stealth as a class mechanic? First off, I only play in PvE, so we can forget about PvP.
So far i've not seen ANY benefit whatsoever to having stealth on my character. This is my "tab" ability such as Block on a guardian or Spell Mastery on my Wizard, so what special thing does it do for me? So far I can't figure that out. I can't sneak past mobs. Whether I use Stealth or not, the result is exactly the same. In combat obviously the mob is still hitting me whether I am in stealth or not, so again no difference using it.
I'm having a real hard time understanding 1) Why is the benefit of stealth, and 2) Why is this build focused on keeping it up as often as possible, since it seems to have no benefit?
I'm very new to this game. I've tried the TR, CW, and GF and I like my rogue the most. I'm currently level 20 and following your guide with my TR, but having a real hard time understanding stealth and its benefits so frankly I just don't use it. I see people in here for example talking about soloing the Cloak Tower, which I sure as heck could not do.
Thanks in advance for any help in understanding you can give, and thanks for your guide. I may not understand the stealth but at least your guide gives me some focus and guidance rather than flailing about trying things.
Hey, Agathorne.
Stealth does a wide variety of things for us TR's. First, it eliminates our presence, meaning mobs will not attack us with direct attacks while we are in stealth. They will, however, use their other abilities depending on their AI. Some will have hard-target skills, some will have AoE, some have frontal cone, etc. But what you can be sure of is that they will not use their direct hit attacks on you. Most minor mobs do not have special attacks that do not require targets. As long as we are in stealth, they cannot target us. But it doesn't mean that we won't be getting hit by the red areas they make. Good thing these are easy to dodge, evade, and predict. Stealth also gives our encounters some extra effects but majority of our encounters will put us out of stealth.
This build focuses on keeping it up as much as possible because during the times we are in stealth, we cannot be targeted. I also would like to mention that this build is pretty specific about the skills, feats, and gear. Not so much on the stats unless you're using the alternative build. This build will not shine until you get to level 45 where you get to put your first point into Shadow Strike.
And as I've mentioned in my previous post, this build takes some getting used to. l0th4ri0 soloed Cloak Tower only with extensive testing and familiarization. This build will be hard to use at early levels but once you get yourself geared out, it'll become easier.
And it's no problem! Glad to hear your interest in completely spec-ing towards this build. Leveling won't be fun, but it'll be easy. And once you hit 60 and get your first Battlefield Scavenger set, the fun starts there.
yeah just test it out on preview u already have the stat rolls, which is what made me have to roll a new one. That way u can see if u like it at no risk.
on the other hand my soloing rotation (shadowstrike/itc) still flikers me out of stealth/itc for a brief moment as the timing is so tight but that is also because i took dps heroic feats, would be solved by taking the extended stealth one. I might go on to preview too to respec it and test. As I will still be able to take the 6% damage on encounters and coming out of stealth feats (synergise well with scoundrels last feat) while still getting the stealth one for gaining that extra sec in stealth to keep me perma-untargeteable, at the cost of disciple of strenght and scoundrel training.
Yeah, I've been looking to create a new TR. Maybe once the Ranger class hits the game I'll be buying 2 more character slots for the ranger and the scoundrel. I'm pretty sure taking the 5/5 stealth extension will be beneficial for the build. Gives you more time in stealth until ITC is out of CD.
I've been thinking of the following feats and skill setup for this sort of build.
Skills:
- At-Wills: Sly Flourish, Cloud of Steel.
- Encounters: Impossible to Catch, Dazing Strike, Wicked Reminder.
- Class Features: Invisible Infiltrator, Infiltrator's Action.
- Dailies: Courage Breaker, Lurker's Assault.
This setup supports the idea of being able to spam as much dailies as possible. Infiltrator's Action makes sure that we get Combat Advantage on enemies so that we can abuse Action Advantage's +10% AP gain. Invisible Infiltrator makes sure that we get to have Stealth refills for Whirlwind Sneak attack and extra 15% damage for 5 seconds. That's 30%, if you sum up Whirlwind Sneak Attack + Invisible Infiltrator. Add up +25% more from Lurker's Assault (use it while not in stealth), then Cunning Ambusher and Endless Assault, we'll get a total damage bonus of 61% in one hit. +20% more from Nimble Blade if we're lucky for a total of 80%. I want to test this ASAP. Will buy my set later in the AH.
Battlefield Skulker/Scavenger increases our room for error for us due to the extended stealth. But Swashbuckling can also be used if and only if you're using the original build. Stacking up Recovery on offense slots should reduce the CD's of Shadow Strike and Bait and Switch to the point where you can maintain your stealth with Gloaming Cut + SS/BnS rotation. To make the answer shorter, yes you can. But we get most of our damage from our feats that give us significant bonuses in Stealth such as +20% AP generation and +25% Critical Severity. Not to mention we also get +5% damage while in Stealth as long as we have the 4/4 Skulker set equipped. Pretty sure the +5% extra damage you get from Skulkers trumps the 1k+ Power we get from Swash. But I haven't done extensive testing about this so I can never be too sure.
Swashbuckling would perform better with PVE DPS Executioners who like to use Duelist's Flurry. Nowadays, even in PVP, Skulkers seem to be a more preferred set due to how readily available its bonuses are.
Yeah, I've been looking to create a new TR. Maybe once the Ranger class hits the game I'll be buying 2 more character slots for the ranger and the scoundrel. I'm pretty sure taking the 5/5 stealth extension will be beneficial for the build. Gives you more time in stealth until ITC is out of CD.
I've been thinking of the following feats and skill setup for this sort of build.
Skills:
- At-Wills: Sly Flourish, Cloud of Steel.
- Encounters: Impossible to Catch, Dazing Strike, Wicked Reminder.
- Class Features: Invisible Infiltrator, Infiltrator's Action.
- Dailies: Courage Breaker, Lurker's Assault.
This setup supports the idea of being able to spam as much dailies as possible. Infiltrator's Action makes sure that we get Combat Advantage on enemies so that we can abuse Action Advantage's +10% AP gain. Invisible Infiltrator makes sure that we get to have Stealth refills for Whirlwind Sneak attack and extra 15% damage for 5 seconds. That's 30%, if you sum up Whirlwind Sneak Attack + Invisible Infiltrator. Add up +25% more from Lurker's Assault (use it while not in stealth), then Cunning Ambusher and Endless Assault, we'll get a total damage bonus of 61% in one hit. +20% more from Nimble Blade if we're lucky for a total of 80%. I want to test this ASAP. Will buy my set later in the AH.
hehe i like to see that enthusiasm.
I actually went into preview and respeced improved cunning sneak and since i was at it i also got action advantage.
Man yeah cunning sneak is a must it made the solo rotation hit its timings perfectly and in that rotation paired with the saboteurs 20% ap gains in stealth i still managed to fill up ap bars in like 20-25 sces without all the encounter spamming.
I also tested action advantage over tactics and the ap gain seemed very similar but u gain a damage boost from all that combat advantage, it could be a very interesting switch. I will have to test better but seems very promising.
Hello and thanks for this guide. It's been going for too long and helping people get the basics of TR. I will focus a bit on PvP.
My new TR is a dwarf and ended up in lvl 60 by focusing in passive defensive stats (Deflect) by increasing the Dex and Cha feats. I ended up with a 18 STR/25 Dex/20 Cha rogue that uses the PvP gear and all Stealth Boosting abilities in order to control the battle. Here's the link to the character : http://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char(Trespass@hidahayabusa)/charactersheet
So the questions I have, and I hope that they will kindle an interesting discussion.
1) Damage-wise, do you find that your (or my in that case) power, in addition to the other offensive stats are enough to burst down targets? I got issues with GF and GWFs that will simply stay around. Is Greater or Perfect Vorpal the only way to go?
2) Suppose that I decide to follow the regen way. Then the power and ArmPen will fall drastically. So I will probably feel like a mosquito bugging people rather than doing the job. DCs, GWFs,TRs and GFs lately run with highly defensive combinations meaning that it will take a LOT of time to nuke something down and Regeneration only serves as a reset. How do you feel about this?
3) As far as I see my build's advantage is that it can deal mediocre damage (Impact Shot/Lashing Blade/Impossible to Catch) and drive people off nodes while chasing me around. So, I am torn between Tenacious Concealment or Sneak attack. Especially that now people have discovered the use of Path of the Blades.
4) Another thing I'd like to add for the Stealth based builds, it's that although if you get a G or P. Vorpal you feel like your damage has gone over the top, the Plaguefire enchantment seems to be much more useful. First of all, it's a dot for opposing rogues, and it's too easy to initially stack 3 stacks of debuff on any target by Cloud of Steel. The normal version means 30% def decrease for everyone in your party to feast upon, while your incoming big encounter will also feast from your high ArmPen.
So bottomline,Mid damage Regen build or Good damage stealth based build with a bit of a more aggressive take.
P.S: I will hopefull change my Lesser Vorpal today and I will probably go for Plaguefire. I can post my tests here if you'd like. I only PvP, and I 99% of the times PuG (since Premade vs PuGs makes no sense).
Hello and thanks for this guide. It's been going for too long and helping people get the basics of TR. I will focus a bit on PvP.
My new TR is a dwarf and ended up in lvl 60 by focusing in passive defensive stats (Deflect) by increasing the Dex and Cha feats. I ended up with a 18 STR/25 Dex/20 Cha rogue that uses the PvP gear and all Stealth Boosting abilities in order to control the battle. Here's the link to the character : http://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char(Trespass@hidahayabusa)/charactersheet
So the questions I have, and I hope that they will kindle an interesting discussion.
1) Damage-wise, do you find that your (or my in that case) power, in addition to the other offensive stats are enough to burst down targets? I got issues with GF and GWFs that will simply stay around. Is Greater or Perfect Vorpal the only way to go?
2) Suppose that I decide to follow the regen way. Then the power and ArmPen will fall drastically. So I will probably feel like a mosquito bugging people rather than doing the job. DCs, GWFs,TRs and GFs lately run with highly defensive combinations meaning that it will take a LOT of time to nuke something down and Regeneration only serves as a reset. How do you feel about this?
3) As far as I see my build's advantage is that it can deal mediocre damage (Impact Shot/Lashing Blade/Impossible to Catch) and drive people off nodes while chasing me around. So, I am torn between Tenacious Concealment or Sneak attack. Especially that now people have discovered the use of Path of the Blades.
4) Another thing I'd like to add for the Stealth based builds, it's that although if you get a G or P. Vorpal you feel like your damage has gone over the top, the Plaguefire enchantment seems to be much more useful. First of all, it's a dot for opposing rogues, and it's too easy to initially stack 3 stacks of debuff on any target by Cloud of Steel. The normal version means 30% def decrease for everyone in your party to feast upon, while your incoming big encounter will also feast from your high ArmPen.
So bottomline,Mid damage Regen build or Good damage stealth based build with a bit of a more aggressive take.
P.S: I will hopefull change my Lesser Vorpal today and I will probably go for Plaguefire. I can post my tests here if you'd like. I only PvP, and I 99% of the times PuG (since Premade vs PuGs makes no sense).
Hi, Hida. And thank you for your feedback! Allow me to answer your questions.
1. It depends. Bursting isn't really the specialty of this build in PVP. More like we burn things slowly. Burst does quick kills but you risk dying by playing with aggressive skill setups. There is more to gain in being alive, doing things slowly but surely. But that's just how I play. I actually find it funner to play against GWFs and GFs in PVP since I get to use Duelist's Flurry on them. They always stay within your range because of their lack of mobility, meaning DF can target, stick to, and burn them down much more easily. DF provides you with 2 seconds of CC immunity at the last hit which basically disables the advantage of GFs and GWFs against us, which is CC. ITC is also a great tool to be able to make sure you can absorb their CC encounters while landing DF bleeds. It's a gradual process but the wait pays off since it's you who comes out alive by being able to counter their strategies. G/P Vorpal is great, and I wish I had one. But no, I use Bilethorn and Plague Fire, and they still work fine. I like how the procs of Bilethorn benefits from Life Steal. I'm a fairly undergeared PVP-er.
2. It depends on what you think your job is. Do you kill people and get them off nodes as soon as possible, or are you the one that occupies the nodes and prevents point generation? If it's the latter, ArPen isn't really all that essential. You may not be able to nuke em, but burning them slowly is fine too as long as you occupy the point and stay alive. It's similar to how Sents play in PVP. They have sub-par damage (unless they slot Tenes), but they prevent point generation and they're good at it.
3. I like your setup! Good against squishies, but I don't think it'll be effective against the tanky classes. It can deal damage but the question will be do you come out of your fights alive? This is just my opinion and my belief in PVP, but the value of a kill is whether or not you get out of it alive. This is where DF kicks in, together with defensive skills like ITC, Dazing Strike and Smoke Bomb. Those skills are just wonderful tools when it comes to landing DF bleeds. DF produces an insane amount of damage for an at-will, and with defensive skills you get to stay alive too. As for the topic of Path of the Blades, any TR who doesn't run a stealth build will not be able to benefit from using Tenacious Concealment. But those who do run a stealth-oriented build should always slot TC once they see a TR who uses this skill. TC basically nullifies PotB.
4. Agreed. I am using Plague Fire for the same reason. I'd use Vorpal for a more readily accessible source of damage, but I like the utility Plague Fire has. You only need one hit to dismount someone from a horse, you get to reduce the defenses of people for your party, etc. It's a fun weapon enchant.
As for which one is better, defensive or offensive, that we can never be sure of. Both builds serve their own purpose. If it's occupying nodes alone, a burst TR will not be as good as a stealth-based one IMO. And if it's killing people, burst TR's are definitely king for this aspect. It all boils down to how you want to play and what you want your purpose to be, in my opinion.
Thank you very much. I will keep you posted after I get more games under my belt.
For the time being, I will stick to what I am doing...i.e. back-capping and fight 1v2 until my team captures the other 2 nodes. I see that I can take down targets with this build, but as I said, the usual suspects are just taking little to no-damage. Probably I will spec into Duelist Flurry and keep Underhand Tactics, given that my Charisma boost will give a 30% increase in Combat advantage.
Keep up the good work and thanks for taking the time to answer.
I have a question, is this build useful for group dungeons?
I have the feeling that in those case people just want to kill enemies as fast as possible, and a slow killing build might not be very well received in those cases...
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited October 2013
Because the base build still primarily uses the Executioner path, you can switch up your powers a little to stand in as a more standard rogue. Being in a regular party makes it much more difficult to stay in stealth full-time anyway, because everything around you is aggroed.
If you've gone with a lot of recovery on your gear, you won't hit quite as hard as a "normal" rogue, but you can spam Lurker's and use Duelist's Flurry from stealth quite well, making the most of your normal rotation.
In a party, your role should be DPSing the biggest or most dangerous thing on the screen, and not picking off little mobs, which is what actually goes slowly while soloing a stealth rogue. You're still capable of putting the hurt on bosses.
Thank you very much. I will keep you posted after I get more games under my belt.
For the time being, I will stick to what I am doing...i.e. back-capping and fight 1v2 until my team captures the other 2 nodes. I see that I can take down targets with this build, but as I said, the usual suspects are just taking little to no-damage. Probably I will spec into Duelist Flurry and keep Underhand Tactics, given that my Charisma boost will give a 30% increase in Combat advantage.
Keep up the good work and thanks for taking the time to answer.
No problem, man. Keep us posted about your experiences in PVP. I personally like these sort of discussions. One thing I'd like to note is how awesome Gloaming Cut is once the opponent's HP is below 50%. It hits as hard as a non-crit Lashing Blade when it crits. It also has a decent range. We're definitely going to have trouble with Sents and defensive GF's, but we can stalemate them in a node if they're too tanky. Most squishy classes tend to not be able to do that.
And that's true, CHA + DEX + Deflect should give you a nice tanky build. Would have been better if you went for Halfling for the extra 3% Deflect, but the dwarf bonuses are still pretty good.
Oh yeah, if you want to play PVP sometime and you're also available, send me a PM to @todesfaelle in the game. Let's party up and play, and maybe it'll be easier to see how this build performs in PVP.
I have a question, is this build useful for group dungeons?
I have the feeling that in those case people just want to kill enemies as fast as possible, and a slow killing build might not be very well received in those cases...
Group dungeons, it depends, actually. You're better off grouping up with people you know. Rather it's always better no matter what build you're using, right? This build's main source of damage comes from Duelist's Flurry and the build's ability to spam this skill with safety and it should not work too differently from a normal executioner. It's just that you don't use the encounters PVE executioners have like Blitz, LB, etc. DF is most usually enough for your DPS needs. People may want to kill enemies much faster but you are able to offer them a service that most players will not be able to provide, and that is the ability to solo certain bosses when all else fails. This will reduce the amount of times you need to wipe at bosses when you guys find yourselves in a pinch. What we lack in DPS, we have in utility.
But it's true that this build isn't too well-received in dungeons specially when the one using this build is spamming Gloaming Cut at things. And that's wrong. When in a group, DF is the way I say. I only start using Gloaming Cut when I need to solo bosses or need to get one hard hit in on mobs to kill them. I also unslot Bait and Switch from my encounter toolbar and use Smoke Bomb (13.8 seconds) or Dazing Strike (7.6 seconds) instead to make things easier for my party. It also allows me to safely land DF bleeds against enemies.
Because the base build still primarily uses the Executioner path, you can switch up your powers a little to stand in as a more standard rogue. Being in a regular party makes it much more difficult to stay in stealth full-time anyway, because everything around you is aggroed.
If you've gone with a lot of recovery on your gear, you won't hit quite as hard as a "normal" rogue, but you can spam Lurker's and use Duelist's Flurry from stealth quite well, making the most of your normal rotation.
In a party, your role should be DPSing the biggest or most dangerous thing on the screen, and not picking off little mobs, which is what actually goes slowly while soloing a stealth rogue. You're still capable of putting the hurt on bosses.
Aye, this.
Just to add a couple more things. The thing that makes Executioners powerful are two feats in the Executioner tree which are Brutal Backstab and Overrun Critical. The capstone feat is just so powerful that we can practically forgo Vorpal unless you want to do much more insane DPS. These two feats allow us to customize our TRs even more using different enchantments and setups.
We are able to spam Lurker's Assault + DF because of the amount of AP we gain from one rotation of B&S, SS, ITC. Once the mobs kill your dummy, you're almost always guaranteed to have a daily up. This is basically our main source of DPS. We still do the same routines as most rogues, which is to target the biggest baddie in the fight and DPS him quickly.
So, tested yesterday in more or less 15 games. All PuGs from my side. I didn't change the Lesser Vorpal yet, so I guess the overall performance would be better. What I found:
1) I prefer Tenacious Concealment over Sneak Attack, even if no Path of the Blade rogue is around. Regetting into stealth is very very important, and Tenacious Concealment lets me do it, even with a brief moment of going out of combat and behind a pillar.
2) The damage is fine. I can help teammates burst down tough targets, and I can kill most of the people I met in 1v1 or 1v2 if I am lucky. Obviously I didn't meet the top geared people, but this is coming from a PuG point of view.
3) DEX/CHA+the 3% of deflection from talents takes me to 25% Deflection without even slotting any Defelction enchants. It's not much but it's more than enough to make me survive and control the battle. I will not be going for the Deflect build. Currently at 29,500 HP (Campfire bonus), I can take some beating before getting back to Stealth.
4) Combat advantage from CHA is really good. Combined with Underhand Tactics showed a significant boost in my damage.
5) Duelist Flurry (specced) is really amazing, so thanks for the suggestion.
So my line of actions:
a) Get Plaguεfire
b) Get Skulker's set, although it's not THAT much difference from the T1
c) Get a higher Soulforge Enchant
d) Upgrade to Rank 7 minimum
Again, thanks for the suggestions and I will message you in game.
* Notorious Dwarven Bear Cavalry Leader *
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carletto75Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2013
Hi all,
I'm really REALLY fascinated from last alternative Gloaming Cut build, and I thank so much todasfaelle, for all his effort, time and very precious collaboration in doing this.
I've a TR Half-Orc, with the following ability score at 60:
25 DEX / 18 STR / 16 CHA / 15 CONS / 12 WIS and a poor 13 INT
I know that my recovery is pretty low, but I'm just farming GG events for GG set, before to put some Silvery enchantments to raise up it. So, I would like to respec to better fit my ability score with your build, without rolling another TR only for this (if is it possible).
Quick question: can you tell me how to BEST manage initial point (or better how they have to result at 60) based on your amazing build? It's viable my half-orc or I need to roll another race/TR to enjoy all the advantage of INT?
Thanks in advance for your response, best regards.
Comments
Good thing there's Duelist's Flurry, though. We fake the first 2 hits and make sure the third hit lands, and they would usually use their Bull Rush during those 2 seconds we use the third hit of DF because we are within melee range when this happens. But during these 2 seconds, we're immune to any CC effect. So their prones will not work, we get to stack bleeds, we burn their shields too if they choose to block after they use their prone encounters. Using ITC after which will prevent them from dealing significant amounts of damage and would also prevent us from getting CC'd while we use DF again. GF's aren't the most mobile of classes.
But I want to try a build that concentrates on ranged attacks in the future too, so I'll probably roll a new rogue just for it.
I did change change somethings from what u proposed back then, like taking improved cunning stalker for the ap instead of the itc buff (300-400 power dont seem much really) and using invisible infiltrator instead of skillfull, not that crit focused and a being a daily spammer 15% dmg for 6 secs + stealth refill seems better.
Ill keep u informed when i finish gearing him up and test it with the proper set and my intended 2.2-2.4 recovery.
the scoundrel is lvl 60 now and already managed to get the bracers in this mornings DD as for the rest im still running all blue XD. but hey with the just under 2300 rec im at a very nice 29.6 rsi... enough to bring itc under 14 sec, dazing to under 8 sec and wr to 3 sec cooldowns. Basically i was running debuff in the dungeon wr+(pawstyle )dazing + courage breaker... its a nice change in playstyle, loving my ap gains (cant remember the number but stupid high since on top of the int and rec i rolled high elf XD) but the dps aint too great specially considering im rolling blue weapons XD.
I still need the whole set though thats when i think it is really going to shine as ill be cutting cds everywhere at a 1 sec per 2 seconds of at wills, meaning one wr cast every 2 secs (or one sly rotation), dazing every 5 secs (almost permastunning a small area) and should be able to have itc ready again about 5-6 secs after it wears off.
what im having trouble is deciding what to roll in the defensive slots... not sure wheather to go defense, deflect or ls. As in any case none are going to get very high.
defense will cut in the damage taken and will benefit reducing further itcs deflected damage taken. the set has deflect already so i could probably get it up to 1200 so (something like 23-24% deflect chance total) but still will be wasted whenever itc is up, which will be often. and ls well help healing up but probably wont be able to get it past some 6% which by experience isnt that noticeable.
I get a full ap bar in around 20-25 secs of encounter smashing, could play the defensive cooldowns more smartly for less damage taken in exchange for less ap.. but this setup would be more for dungeons where u got a dc healing u up and not for soloing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzlsrzvKR8Q
Yet I don't see it. I just don't get it, and I don't get stealth. First off, stealth doesn't seem to do anything in combat. I still get beat on, I still get hit, and for just as much damage as if I wasn't stealthed. Secondly, I can't stealth past any mobs, because they seem to see me anyways. They get ? symbols above their heads and as soon as stealth fades, they rush me.
WTF am I not getting?
Stealth also does not have any effects that reduce damage, which is where proceeding carefully in combat comes into play. You don't faceroll people and mobs and expect them to not do anything. They will hit back if they can. Mobs do this by spamming AoE skills if they have any available, same with bosses. There are also some mobs which have hard-target skills. This means that whether we are in stealth or not, their skills will target our position but technically they really can't see us. A good example of these mobs are Driders.
But the challenging ones are the mobs that can see through stealth. Best example are the intellect devourers in the last boss room in Epic Dread Vaults. They will see us in stealth and they will attack us if we have the highest threat generated.
Also, you most definitely can't stealth past mobs. Once they get that "?" sign on their heads, you're a target to them until you get out of the combat situation, or until you're past a certain distance away from them. This build will require you to familiarize yourself with the behaviors of mobs in PVE, and it takes some getting used to. In PVP this build also performs VERY, VERY poorly. That is until you get the hang of things. Burst DPS is king in PVP. This build doesn't have that.
If there are any other questions please feel free to lay them down in another post.
Hi. You pretty much have just confirmed what I've already seen, so this really makes me wonder what is the purpose of stealth as a class mechanic? First off, I only play in PvE, so we can forget about PvP.
So far i've not seen ANY benefit whatsoever to having stealth on my character. This is my "tab" ability such as Block on a guardian or Spell Mastery on my Wizard, so what special thing does it do for me? So far I can't figure that out. I can't sneak past mobs. Whether I use Stealth or not, the result is exactly the same. In combat obviously the mob is still hitting me whether I am in stealth or not, so again no difference using it.
I'm having a real hard time understanding 1) Why is the benefit of stealth, and 2) Why is this build focused on keeping it up as often as possible, since it seems to have no benefit?
I'm very new to this game. I've tried the TR, CW, and GF and I like my rogue the most. I'm currently level 20 and following your guide with my TR, but having a real hard time understanding stealth and its benefits so frankly I just don't use it. I see people in here for example talking about soloing the Cloak Tower, which I sure as heck could not do.
Thanks in advance for any help in understanding you can give, and thanks for your guide. I may not understand the stealth but at least your guide gives me some focus and guidance rather than flailing about trying things.
Yes you can indeed sneak passed mobs, and Tode, explained that pretty clearly on how/why.
Why does stealth help? Well as Tode also explained only elite types of mobs will see you and target you while in Stealth. Try not to stand in front of things when you are attacking, as that is what it sounds like you are doing. See a red circle on the ground, move out of it.
yeah just test it out on preview u already have the stat rolls, which is what made me have to roll a new one. That way u can see if u like it at no risk.
on the other hand my soloing rotation (shadowstrike/itc) still flikers me out of stealth/itc for a brief moment as the timing is so tight but that is also because i took dps heroic feats, would be solved by taking the extended stealth one. I might go on to preview too to respec it and test. As I will still be able to take the 6% damage on encounters and coming out of stealth feats (synergise well with scoundrels last feat) while still getting the stealth one for gaining that extra sec in stealth to keep me perma-untargeteable, at the cost of disciple of strenght and scoundrel training.
1 - It has the advantage of greater damage in stealth and greater survival
2 - Allows you to win over enemies much stronger than you ex: myself already won rogues with perferct VORPA in x1
Server: Rapier
Hey, Agathorne.
Stealth does a wide variety of things for us TR's. First, it eliminates our presence, meaning mobs will not attack us with direct attacks while we are in stealth. They will, however, use their other abilities depending on their AI. Some will have hard-target skills, some will have AoE, some have frontal cone, etc. But what you can be sure of is that they will not use their direct hit attacks on you. Most minor mobs do not have special attacks that do not require targets. As long as we are in stealth, they cannot target us. But it doesn't mean that we won't be getting hit by the red areas they make. Good thing these are easy to dodge, evade, and predict. Stealth also gives our encounters some extra effects but majority of our encounters will put us out of stealth.
This build focuses on keeping it up as much as possible because during the times we are in stealth, we cannot be targeted. I also would like to mention that this build is pretty specific about the skills, feats, and gear. Not so much on the stats unless you're using the alternative build. This build will not shine until you get to level 45 where you get to put your first point into Shadow Strike.
And as I've mentioned in my previous post, this build takes some getting used to. l0th4ri0 soloed Cloak Tower only with extensive testing and familiarization. This build will be hard to use at early levels but once you get yourself geared out, it'll become easier.
And it's no problem! Glad to hear your interest in completely spec-ing towards this build. Leveling won't be fun, but it'll be easy. And once you hit 60 and get your first Battlefield Scavenger set, the fun starts there.
Yeah, I've been looking to create a new TR. Maybe once the Ranger class hits the game I'll be buying 2 more character slots for the ranger and the scoundrel. I'm pretty sure taking the 5/5 stealth extension will be beneficial for the build. Gives you more time in stealth until ITC is out of CD.
I've been thinking of the following feats and skill setup for this sort of build.
Skills:
- At-Wills: Sly Flourish, Cloud of Steel.
- Encounters: Impossible to Catch, Dazing Strike, Wicked Reminder.
- Class Features: Invisible Infiltrator, Infiltrator's Action.
- Dailies: Courage Breaker, Lurker's Assault.
Heroic:
- 5/5 Action Advantage.
- 3/3 Toughness.
- 3/3 Cunning Ambusher.
- 3/3 Endless Assault.
- 1/3 Lucky Skirmisher.
- 5/5 Improved Cunning Sneak.
Paragon:
- 5/5 Underhanded Tactics.
- 5/5 Nimble Blade.
- 5/5 Mocking Knave.
- 5/5 Catspaw Style
- 5/5 Action Rush.
- 5/5 Press the Advantage OR 5/5 Brutal Wound.
- 1/1 Whirlwind Sneak Attack.
This setup supports the idea of being able to spam as much dailies as possible. Infiltrator's Action makes sure that we get Combat Advantage on enemies so that we can abuse Action Advantage's +10% AP gain. Invisible Infiltrator makes sure that we get to have Stealth refills for Whirlwind Sneak attack and extra 15% damage for 5 seconds. That's 30%, if you sum up Whirlwind Sneak Attack + Invisible Infiltrator. Add up +25% more from Lurker's Assault (use it while not in stealth), then Cunning Ambusher and Endless Assault, we'll get a total damage bonus of 61% in one hit. +20% more from Nimble Blade if we're lucky for a total of 80%. I want to test this ASAP. Will buy my set later in the AH.
Might I ask if the Battlefield set is mandatory here? Can it be used with other?
During my CN/MC runs I see rogues mostly Swashbuckling there.
Guess its a less stealth more dps question.
Battlefield Skulker/Scavenger increases our room for error for us due to the extended stealth. But Swashbuckling can also be used if and only if you're using the original build. Stacking up Recovery on offense slots should reduce the CD's of Shadow Strike and Bait and Switch to the point where you can maintain your stealth with Gloaming Cut + SS/BnS rotation. To make the answer shorter, yes you can. But we get most of our damage from our feats that give us significant bonuses in Stealth such as +20% AP generation and +25% Critical Severity. Not to mention we also get +5% damage while in Stealth as long as we have the 4/4 Skulker set equipped. Pretty sure the +5% extra damage you get from Skulkers trumps the 1k+ Power we get from Swash. But I haven't done extensive testing about this so I can never be too sure.
Swashbuckling would perform better with PVE DPS Executioners who like to use Duelist's Flurry. Nowadays, even in PVP, Skulkers seem to be a more preferred set due to how readily available its bonuses are.
hehe i like to see that enthusiasm.
I actually went into preview and respeced improved cunning sneak and since i was at it i also got action advantage.
Man yeah cunning sneak is a must it made the solo rotation hit its timings perfectly and in that rotation paired with the saboteurs 20% ap gains in stealth i still managed to fill up ap bars in like 20-25 sces without all the encounter spamming.
http://youtu.be/-6F3gA2Zgl8
I also tested action advantage over tactics and the ap gain seemed very similar but u gain a damage boost from all that combat advantage, it could be a very interesting switch. I will have to test better but seems very promising.
My new TR is a dwarf and ended up in lvl 60 by focusing in passive defensive stats (Deflect) by increasing the Dex and Cha feats. I ended up with a 18 STR/25 Dex/20 Cha rogue that uses the PvP gear and all Stealth Boosting abilities in order to control the battle. Here's the link to the character : http://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char(Trespass@hidahayabusa)/charactersheet
So the questions I have, and I hope that they will kindle an interesting discussion.
1) Damage-wise, do you find that your (or my in that case) power, in addition to the other offensive stats are enough to burst down targets? I got issues with GF and GWFs that will simply stay around. Is Greater or Perfect Vorpal the only way to go?
2) Suppose that I decide to follow the regen way. Then the power and ArmPen will fall drastically. So I will probably feel like a mosquito bugging people rather than doing the job. DCs, GWFs,TRs and GFs lately run with highly defensive combinations meaning that it will take a LOT of time to nuke something down and Regeneration only serves as a reset. How do you feel about this?
3) As far as I see my build's advantage is that it can deal mediocre damage (Impact Shot/Lashing Blade/Impossible to Catch) and drive people off nodes while chasing me around. So, I am torn between Tenacious Concealment or Sneak attack. Especially that now people have discovered the use of Path of the Blades.
4) Another thing I'd like to add for the Stealth based builds, it's that although if you get a G or P. Vorpal you feel like your damage has gone over the top, the Plaguefire enchantment seems to be much more useful. First of all, it's a dot for opposing rogues, and it's too easy to initially stack 3 stacks of debuff on any target by Cloud of Steel. The normal version means 30% def decrease for everyone in your party to feast upon, while your incoming big encounter will also feast from your high ArmPen.
So bottomline,Mid damage Regen build or Good damage stealth based build with a bit of a more aggressive take.
P.S: I will hopefull change my Lesser Vorpal today and I will probably go for Plaguefire. I can post my tests here if you'd like. I only PvP, and I 99% of the times PuG (since Premade vs PuGs makes no sense).
Edit: And build-> http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,13n01i5:b0000:6u000:bu5u1&h=0
Hi, Hida. And thank you for your feedback! Allow me to answer your questions.
1. It depends. Bursting isn't really the specialty of this build in PVP. More like we burn things slowly. Burst does quick kills but you risk dying by playing with aggressive skill setups. There is more to gain in being alive, doing things slowly but surely. But that's just how I play. I actually find it funner to play against GWFs and GFs in PVP since I get to use Duelist's Flurry on them. They always stay within your range because of their lack of mobility, meaning DF can target, stick to, and burn them down much more easily. DF provides you with 2 seconds of CC immunity at the last hit which basically disables the advantage of GFs and GWFs against us, which is CC. ITC is also a great tool to be able to make sure you can absorb their CC encounters while landing DF bleeds. It's a gradual process but the wait pays off since it's you who comes out alive by being able to counter their strategies. G/P Vorpal is great, and I wish I had one. But no, I use Bilethorn and Plague Fire, and they still work fine. I like how the procs of Bilethorn benefits from Life Steal. I'm a fairly undergeared PVP-er.
2. It depends on what you think your job is. Do you kill people and get them off nodes as soon as possible, or are you the one that occupies the nodes and prevents point generation? If it's the latter, ArPen isn't really all that essential. You may not be able to nuke em, but burning them slowly is fine too as long as you occupy the point and stay alive. It's similar to how Sents play in PVP. They have sub-par damage (unless they slot Tenes), but they prevent point generation and they're good at it.
3. I like your setup! Good against squishies, but I don't think it'll be effective against the tanky classes. It can deal damage but the question will be do you come out of your fights alive? This is just my opinion and my belief in PVP, but the value of a kill is whether or not you get out of it alive. This is where DF kicks in, together with defensive skills like ITC, Dazing Strike and Smoke Bomb. Those skills are just wonderful tools when it comes to landing DF bleeds. DF produces an insane amount of damage for an at-will, and with defensive skills you get to stay alive too. As for the topic of Path of the Blades, any TR who doesn't run a stealth build will not be able to benefit from using Tenacious Concealment. But those who do run a stealth-oriented build should always slot TC once they see a TR who uses this skill. TC basically nullifies PotB.
4. Agreed. I am using Plague Fire for the same reason. I'd use Vorpal for a more readily accessible source of damage, but I like the utility Plague Fire has. You only need one hit to dismount someone from a horse, you get to reduce the defenses of people for your party, etc. It's a fun weapon enchant.
As for which one is better, defensive or offensive, that we can never be sure of. Both builds serve their own purpose. If it's occupying nodes alone, a burst TR will not be as good as a stealth-based one IMO. And if it's killing people, burst TR's are definitely king for this aspect. It all boils down to how you want to play and what you want your purpose to be, in my opinion.
For the time being, I will stick to what I am doing...i.e. back-capping and fight 1v2 until my team captures the other 2 nodes. I see that I can take down targets with this build, but as I said, the usual suspects are just taking little to no-damage. Probably I will spec into Duelist Flurry and keep Underhand Tactics, given that my Charisma boost will give a 30% increase in Combat advantage.
Keep up the good work and thanks for taking the time to answer.
I have the feeling that in those case people just want to kill enemies as fast as possible, and a slow killing build might not be very well received in those cases...
If you've gone with a lot of recovery on your gear, you won't hit quite as hard as a "normal" rogue, but you can spam Lurker's and use Duelist's Flurry from stealth quite well, making the most of your normal rotation.
In a party, your role should be DPSing the biggest or most dangerous thing on the screen, and not picking off little mobs, which is what actually goes slowly while soloing a stealth rogue. You're still capable of putting the hurt on bosses.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
No problem, man. Keep us posted about your experiences in PVP.
And that's true, CHA + DEX + Deflect should give you a nice tanky build. Would have been better if you went for Halfling for the extra 3% Deflect, but the dwarf bonuses are still pretty good.
Oh yeah, if you want to play PVP sometime and you're also available, send me a PM to @todesfaelle in the game. Let's party up and play, and maybe it'll be easier to see how this build performs in PVP.
Group dungeons, it depends, actually. You're better off grouping up with people you know. Rather it's always better no matter what build you're using, right? This build's main source of damage comes from Duelist's Flurry and the build's ability to spam this skill with safety and it should not work too differently from a normal executioner. It's just that you don't use the encounters PVE executioners have like Blitz, LB, etc. DF is most usually enough for your DPS needs. People may want to kill enemies much faster but you are able to offer them a service that most players will not be able to provide, and that is the ability to solo certain bosses when all else fails. This will reduce the amount of times you need to wipe at bosses when you guys find yourselves in a pinch. What we lack in DPS, we have in utility.
But it's true that this build isn't too well-received in dungeons specially when the one using this build is spamming Gloaming Cut at things. And that's wrong. When in a group, DF is the way I say. I only start using Gloaming Cut when I need to solo bosses or need to get one hard hit in on mobs to kill them. I also unslot Bait and Switch from my encounter toolbar and use Smoke Bomb (13.8 seconds) or Dazing Strike (7.6 seconds) instead to make things easier for my party. It also allows me to safely land DF bleeds against enemies.
Aye, this.
Just to add a couple more things. The thing that makes Executioners powerful are two feats in the Executioner tree which are Brutal Backstab and Overrun Critical. The capstone feat is just so powerful that we can practically forgo Vorpal unless you want to do much more insane DPS. These two feats allow us to customize our TRs even more using different enchantments and setups.
We are able to spam Lurker's Assault + DF because of the amount of AP we gain from one rotation of B&S, SS, ITC. Once the mobs kill your dummy, you're almost always guaranteed to have a daily up. This is basically our main source of DPS. We still do the same routines as most rogues, which is to target the biggest baddie in the fight and DPS him quickly.
But anyway, this is great input, Beckylunatic.
1) I prefer Tenacious Concealment over Sneak Attack, even if no Path of the Blade rogue is around. Regetting into stealth is very very important, and Tenacious Concealment lets me do it, even with a brief moment of going out of combat and behind a pillar.
2) The damage is fine. I can help teammates burst down tough targets, and I can kill most of the people I met in 1v1 or 1v2 if I am lucky. Obviously I didn't meet the top geared people, but this is coming from a PuG point of view.
3) DEX/CHA+the 3% of deflection from talents takes me to 25% Deflection without even slotting any Defelction enchants. It's not much but it's more than enough to make me survive and control the battle. I will not be going for the Deflect build. Currently at 29,500 HP (Campfire bonus), I can take some beating before getting back to Stealth.
4) Combat advantage from CHA is really good. Combined with Underhand Tactics showed a significant boost in my damage.
5) Duelist Flurry (specced) is really amazing, so thanks for the suggestion.
So my line of actions:
a) Get Plaguεfire
b) Get Skulker's set, although it's not THAT much difference from the T1
c) Get a higher Soulforge Enchant
d) Upgrade to Rank 7 minimum
Again, thanks for the suggestions and I will message you in game.
I'm really REALLY fascinated from last alternative Gloaming Cut build, and I thank so much todasfaelle, for all his effort, time and very precious collaboration in doing this.
I've a TR Half-Orc, with the following ability score at 60:
25 DEX / 18 STR / 16 CHA / 15 CONS / 12 WIS and a poor 13 INT
I know that my recovery is pretty low, but I'm just farming GG events for GG set, before to put some Silvery enchantments to raise up it. So, I would like to respec to better fit my ability score with your build, without rolling another TR only for this (if is it possible).
Quick question: can you tell me how to BEST manage initial point (or better how they have to result at 60) based on your amazing build? It's viable my half-orc or I need to roll another race/TR to enjoy all the advantage of INT?
Thanks in advance for your response, best regards.
PS: sorry for my bad english