Getting kinda tired of getting 2 hit by them, almost 1 hit if they have tenebrous. Nothing to stop their cc chain, you just lay there while they can easily DPS rotate you. Also, they are the only class that can avoid shocking execution, just a FYI.
They have absolutely no counters (cw gets 1 hit ko'd.) Last patch they had zero nerfs. Zero. Only nerf was their op t1 set which wasn't supposed to work like that anyway... But yeah. Second tankiest class in the game for pvp (after gwf, which by the way is ridiculous with tenebrous too), and they have rogue-like dps and better single target cc than cw.
I really hope the new class can somehow snipe through their armour or something, but i have my doubts.
First I am a TR mainly and I hope GFs do not get nerfed. Fighting a challenging opponent in pvp is half the fun. The individuals wanting nerfs honestly are not woman enough or man enough the face the challenge. Every class has a disadvantages and players should just learn how to use the disadvantages of their opponents. You win some and lose some. Losing in pvp is not a big deal at all yet people try to make it into a big deal.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
I love when TR cry about nerfing other classes but we all saw what happen when it was their class on the chopping block. "NO DONT NERF TR NERF EVERYONE ELSE SO I CAN PEWPEW EZ MODE 1 SHOT ALL CLASSES THATS BALANCED!"
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kingculexMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I love when TR cry about nerfing other classes but we all saw what happen when it was their class on the chopping block. "NO DONT NERF TR NERF EVERYONE ELSE SO I CAN PEWPEW EZ MODE 1 SHOT ALL CLASSES THATS BALANCED!"
This is one TR who is against nerfing GFs. Players should face the challenge and live or die. You win some and loose some.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
I love when TR cry about nerfing other classes but we all saw what happen when it was their class on the chopping block. "NO DONT NERF TR NERF EVERYONE ELSE SO I CAN PEWPEW EZ MODE 1 SHOT ALL CLASSES THATS BALANCED!"
I am a TR and I also already posted that fighters do not need a nerf.
I wish TR could charge 30' in full plate and in a 10' arc knock people prone so I don't even have to target them , just "guess" and turn it to ez mode no skill juggling killing spree. then block and be immune to dmg and cc and whatever just by blocking and turning "close" to the right direction. then I can come to the forums and QQ on behalf of everyone else.
GF Can't be nerfed.
Reason: It's already a bad class.
It needs a buff.
Reason: Enduring Warrior, Guarded Assault and Ferocious Reaction are BAD, the first 2 ones are useless. I read some stuff about people saying the only way to tank in a dungeon is to deal dps, well this is totally wrong and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> since if you are dps you will die because you dont have survavility, that, sir, is noobish. DPS specline is fun for PVP or Gauntry pvp, Yes its too much dps for a half-orc to 2 shot people with knights challenge, anyways the dps tank can be butter if a knife lands on his back (icy knife or shocking). I just don't see the reason that someone told before for reducing his guard meter. That is also noobish. Just by using the brain you can take down whatever class.
Please, dont come here and cry because your lack of skills. Learn your class.
GF Can't be nerfed.
Reason: It's already a bad class.
It needs a buff.
Reason: Enduring Warrior, Guarded Assault and Ferocious Reaction are BAD, the first 2 ones are useless. I read some stuff about people saying the only way to tank in a dungeon is to deal dps, well this is totally wrong and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> since if you are dps you will die because you dont have survavility, that, sir, is noobish. DPS specline is fun for PVP or Gauntry pvp, Yes its too much dps for a half-orc to 2 shot people with knights challenge, anyways the dps tank can be butter if a knife lands on his back (icy knife or shocking). I just don't see the reason that someone told before for reducing his guard meter. That is also noobish. Just by using the brain you can take down whatever class.
Please, dont come here and cry because your lack of skills. Learn your class.
Have a good day.
The 2 shotting was with tenebs and lunging+bull, no knights. Maybe there was one cleave too, but still pretty much a 2 shot, 24k health. "L2p, you should never get hit by bull charge or lunging on a 6sec cd, ever" is a very poor arguement if i can even call it one. Defensive GF controls threat easily in pve, i don't get what you're trying to say with this...
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inexgravMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The 2 shotting was with tenebs and lunging+bull, no knights. Maybe there was one cleave too, but still pretty much a 2 shot, 24k health. "L2p, you should never get hit by bull charge or lunging on a 6sec cd, ever" is a very poor arguement if i can even call it one. Defensive GF controls threat easily in pve, i don't get what you're trying to say with this...
fixed it for you
and you also answered whats the real reason on how GF 2 hit KO other classes
all TR that says GF def is so high are n00bs
just look at TRs armors you can have high ArPen with just armors they will hit GFs like they dont have any armor equiped
low power but can crit up to 20k+LB without BiS enchants
L2P
GFs guard is already nerfed they reduced guard meter by almost 30%
fixed it for you
and you also answered whats the real reason on how GF 2 hit KO other classes
all TR that says GF def is so high are n00bs
just look at TRs armors you can have high ArPen with just armors they will hit GFs like they dont have any armor equiped
low power but can crit up to 20k+LB without BiS enchants
L2P
GFs guard is already nerfed they reduced guard meter by almost 30%
You're right, tenebs certainly needs to get nerfed (or removed) too, but it only stands for about 20% of the damage they do. the fact that gfs can do 80% in 2 hits without KC and not a lot of ARP and still have one encounter to chain cc you with after that is broken. Simple as that.
Edit: we all know tenebs won't get nerfed though, because they come from lockboxes... even though they're clearly broken too.
You're right, tenebs certainly needs to get nerfed (or removed) too, but it only stands for about 20% of the damage they do. the fact that gfs can do 80% in 2 hits without KC and not a lot of ARP and still have one encounter to chain cc you with after that is broken. Simple as that.
Edit: we all know tenebs won't get nerfed though, because they come from lockboxes... even though they're clearly broken too.
so why do you still say that GFs are OP if you know that its tenes fault?
GFs are OP can 2 shot with tene? :cool:
compare tene and arpen what adds more damage? (Arpen > tene and TR can have 30+ Arpen easily)
so why do you still say that GFs are OP if you know that its tenes fault?
GFs are OP can 2 shot with tene? :cool:
compare tene and arpen what adds more damage? (Arpen > tene and TR can have 30+ Arpen easily)
To get 30% ArP on a TR you would have to sacrifice every other stat. I have the highest ArP armor + weapons, ArP on neck and belt and 1 R7 dark and I only have 23%, and that's where ArP starts hitting the big diminishing returns. GF's get free ArP from dex, my GF has ~1600 ArP which is around 15% + 8% from dex = 23% which is average to above average on a TR that doesn't have 6 R8 dark's and therefore low crit/power.
GF's don't need a nerf though, they already got a big nerf to block from what I can tell, which also reduces their power by half when block is gone. They are CC machine's with decent survivability and good damage, but certainly not OP. As with all classes when clad in 40mil AD they do quite well heh.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I wish TR could charge 30' in full plate and in a 10' arc knock people prone so I don't even have to target them , just "guess" and turn it to ez mode no skill juggling killing spree. then block and be immune to dmg and cc and whatever just by blocking and turning "close" to the right direction. then I can come to the forums and QQ on behalf of everyone else.
To get 30% ArP on a TR you would have to sacrifice every other stat. I have the highest ArP armor + weapons, ArP on neck and belt and 1 R7 dark and I only have 23%, and that's where ArP starts hitting the big diminishing returns. GF's get free ArP from dex, my GF has ~1600 ArP which is around 15% + 8% from dex = 23% which is average to above average on a TR that doesn't have 6 R8 dark's and therefore low crit/power.
GF's don't need a nerf though, they already got a big nerf to block from what I can tell, which also reduces their power by half when block is gone. They are CC machine's with decent survivability and good damage, but certainly not OP. As with all classes when clad in 40mil AD they do quite well heh.
You know block meter come from str dmg too and dmr , most imortant stat after con (i am not sure you can do any instance with full dex no block and no dmr , g.tene will not help y to keep agro. This build is only good for pvp but no good on pve :garbage.
You know block meter come from str dmg too and dmr , most imortant stat after con (i am not sure you can do any instance with full dex no block and no dmr , g.tene will not help y to keep agro. This build is only good for pvp but no good on pve :garbage.
Guard only get +1%. Last time i make a video of my blocking ability it count over 5k or 6k with shield talent. So all mobs hit more than 1k(after reduction!) automatically get hard capped block consume. Only in PvP and some mobs help shield talent and str-increase. Other hit to hard that these improvements give you any benefit for using it! 5k*1,01 = 5050! Oh yeah... So by 30 you only got 6k instead of 5k, much more... I will it test now if they really reduce the guard ability per video recording. But i don't think they do it.
GF rotation is easy to dodge. When you're fighting more serious PvP teams most opponents will teleport/dodge/slide/guard/unstoppable/ITC when a GF charges them. After that they will fight/disable the GF from distance/stealth/unstoppable/ITC.
One-shotting people is of course possible with your attacks critting, tenebrous enchantments and knights challenge up. But Knights Challenge also makes the GF receive double damage from the challenged target. When your target dogdes your Lunging Strike you might get hit by a 50k shocking execution in the back or get disabled really fast and get an Ice Dagger in the face. Or get knocked down by the GWF that just used unstoppable. Also Knights Challenge has a long CD and works only on one target so in group fights, its often not too effective.
Furthermore GFs defense was indirectly nerfed by changing the Stalwart Bulwark set and there seem to be undocumented changes nerfing the blocking ability of GFs like the people in this thread describe: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?470541-GF-Block-useless-in-PVP-since-patch - also some defensive feats seems to be bugged as well. Additionaly there was a feat that most human GFs had that added +10%/20%/30% crowd control duration, which was changed to additional 0.1sec/0.2sec/0.3sec duration on Prone.
GF is really nice for pubstomp PvP, when you play against green geared opponents who have not played a lot against GF before. Other than that I dont find it too difficult playing against GFs when I pvp with my TR and CW, still finding GWF harder to 1on1 against in most situations.
So i make the video, i count the impact on my block and i come to follow numbers:
Hits received:
47 vs. 59(every last break it total)
5081(-114) vs. 5818(-95)
W/o | with shield talent
all with 16 strength, shield master(-10% guard consume). Same as i stated 2 august 2013.
So all of this is WRONG that the guard is decreased!
Ok, apparently some people don't understand how tenebrous works:
Greater Tenebrous deals 3% HP necrotic damage once every 20 seconds. Let's say a player got 36k HP, with 7 offense slots, that's a total of 3x7= 21% HP Necro damage which is about ~ 7560 damage.
So basically if i do 10k damage with my GF/GWF, i would do 17560 instead.So you must gave good base damage ( and lots of HP) already or your tenebrous would be worthless.
On a TR or a CW, they usually get the range of 27k HP.. that's about 5670 damage from tenebrous. So if a lashing blade hits you for 17k, it would do 22670 instead.
So as you see, what one shots you is the class's base damage not the tenebrous because if a TR can do 17k lashing blade to you then you are pretty much dead anyways.
Now about how to counter this,
Just dodge the first attack they do, if their main encounters are on CD then they will be forced to use At-Wills which would burn their tenebrous burst.
The same effect can happen if you remove tenebrous, and stack rank 9/rank 8 armor penetration instead.
But people go for tenebrous because of the burst, Armor pen is more like constant damage.
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ausdoerrtMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2013
Oh boy, the OP is trolling hard, or perhaps he's really that bad at the game and doesn't get how it works. Can't beat a GF with rogue? Lol. Clerics can't PvP? Lol again. I'm not even talking about all the blatantly false factual information about various classes.
Oh boy, the OP is trolling hard, or perhaps he's really that bad at the game and doesn't get how it works. Can't beat a GF with rogue? Lol. Clerics can't PvP? Lol again. I'm not even talking about all the blatantly false factual information about various classes.
Maybe he hasn't found out that it's hard for a GF to bounce him around if the GF can't see him lol. He might not know about the almighty "Impossible to Catch", or he hasn't found out that the "Sly flourish" at-will provides CC immunity after the first two strikes.
He might not of tried using deft strike to teleport behind the GF's shield.
The OP clearly has no idea how to handle GFs. GFs are not a big deal for TRs. OP needs to L2P before he makes this class completely useless.
Arc, proud officer of Novus Ordo
New to the game? Check out my build guide to give you an idea on how to set up your characters!
Maybe he hasn't found out that it's hard for a GF to bounce him around if the GF can't see him lol. He might not know about the almighty "Impossible to Catch", or he hasn't found out that the "Sly flourish" at-will provides CC immunity after the first two strikes.
He might not of tried using deft strike to teleport behind the GF's shield.
The OP clearly has no idea how to handle GFs. GFs are not a big deal for TRs. OP needs to L2P before he makes this class completely useless.
Thanks for the sly flourish information. I didn't even know it and have it rank 3. Even without it GFs can be handled.
Every class has advantages and disadvantages. Learn the disadvantages of you class to overcome them. Learn the advantages of your class and the disadvatages of other classes to use them in pvp to win.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Maybe he hasn't found out that it's hard for a GF to bounce him around if the GF can't see him lol. He might not know about the almighty "Impossible to Catch", or he hasn't found out that the "Sly flourish" at-will provides CC immunity after the first two strikes.
He might not of tried using deft strike to teleport behind the GF's shield.
The OP clearly has no idea how to handle GFs. GFs are not a big deal for TRs. OP needs to L2P before he makes this class completely useless.
I think you are referring to Duelist's Flurry. We become immune to knockbacks and prones once the animation for the third strike of DF starts. I'm not sure about Stuns and Daze, however, since I only slot Duelist's Flurry whenever I see more than 2 GWF's/GF's in the opposing team. Sly Flourish is our most basic melee at-will which is fast, reliable and very flexible, but it doesn't make us immune to CC at all.
I also main as a TR, and I do not think GF's are OP. It should be common knowledge that GF's will try to send you prone as soon as you're locked into combat against one, and that letting yourself get hit by that first shot will often spell death. But we have dodge, we have stealth, we have the liberty of being the ones who open up against them. By playing against these beefy classes defensively and carefully, it's very possible to at least lock them in a stalemate if killing them is not a possibility. But we have a wide variety of encounters that also help us react to their actions and eventually kill the beefy classes even if it tends to be a slow process. The important thing is that we do not die, in my opinion. Losing out on more than 15 seconds being out in the playing field, not being able to react to what your opponents do, can give them a huge advantage within that short span of time.
The GF is also melee-centered class, no ranged abilities and most GF's will have to close in on you in order to deal good damage. This, in turn, makes them susceptible to getting landed with Duelist's Flurry and it can be devastating once the bleeds kick in. A combo of Impossible to Catch and Duelist's Flurry helps us get those damage and bleeds in 1 vs. 1 scenarios. Follow up with Shadow Strike to get the Stealth meter back. The only time a GF should be able to land a prone encounter against a TR would be when ITC is out, and when ITC is out a TR will most usually be in Stealth. The GF will then have to predict where the TR will go and use his prone encounters once he catches a glimpse of the TR's silhouette and I've seen quite a lot of PVP-ers do this against me which is always a learning experience.
DF is also daze immunity, enemy TR put down smoke bomb right as I started my animation and it fully finished before I was affected by daze. Another good choice if you're running executioner and vorpal is gloaming cut. With a regular vorpal and executioner spec my TR was hitting as high as 15k gloamings on targets under 50% hp. You can position yourself outside of their vision range and then lunge in with the attack animation. So you can chip away their health (giant chunks when you crit) and stay out of sight doing it.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
My normal set up for pvp with my TR is Dazing/Lashing/Impact --CoS/DF.
Its getting easier and easier fighting GF's and GWF's now I feel I've mastered DF. Its all about timing. "Most" GF's arent that good in pvp. Dodge the first encounter, start your DF rotation at range, second DF get closer, by the time you hit your third rotation/animation, the GF is more then likely lunging at you, or even just within range, and you'll land DF bleed. I like to follow up with Dazing strike after the DF animation, which most of the time works out well and doesnt get interrupted because they burn there prone encounters while you are in DF animation. Then follow up with LB after Dazing. This rotation being fully landed most GF's I've fought are now at 30% or less health, lesser geared I've one shot with this rotation.
A good GF will see a TR starting his DF rotation and stay at range, not being dumb and burning his encounters. Or, they will try and lunge you during your first 1-2 rotations.
Of course like anything else, there isnt really any "perfect" rotation for fighting anyone imo. Its all situational dependant, added with gear/skill and a little bit of luck. I used to think DF was stupid in pvp until I started using it and getting better with it. Now I absolutely love it, and 90% of the time I'm timing it so foolish people are running into me at the animation. Same goes for Dazing, the animation is long so most rogues think its bad and chose not to use it, because its hard to be effective with it. I LOVE dazing, it hits just as hard as LB +stun, its my little buddy encounter =P The only time I take out Dazing is when I'm up against some very good CW's, I'll slot ItC.
GF's are absolutely not OP. No one in this game is. My least favorite is the CW's range but meh, its a small price to pay for how much we murder them in PvP.
A good Player is OP, not the class. Learn that and believe it, and you will get better at PvP.
I play a GF as my main and am spec'd for PvP primarily (Conq). And Many of peoples responses to mitigating a GF are spot on. I love my GF in PvP and can absolutely 1 and 2 shot people AND I am often tops of the charts in kills, assists and points. I don't use Tene's either. GS is 15,560. That said, I have had more than my share of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>-whoopins. Rogues smoke shield leaves us defenseless. Far longer than 1 of my prones. CW has force choke that lasts alot longer than 1 of my prones. Well played and we can be cc'd and burned down faster than Mario Andretti driving down hill. I also want to remind people that Knights Challenge has a long cool down. My one shot is usually only good for 1 fight. After that, our cool-downs are sub par and we have to wait til its back up again. If we miss, or it gets mitigated (And I have gone against some CW's that are beast mode and mitigated or dodged my onslaught only to turn the tables) then we can be easily controlled.
Now, how to get around a good CW... I use Threatening rush to "fake out" a CW to burn their dodges. When they are dashing around to get out of range they can't do anything to me. After their 3rd dash, they will usually start up their barrage. Thats my cue. I can take alot of damage (35k+ hps), so they aren't going to burn me down too fast. As they are building their chill stacks, I hit em with Knights Challenge, then instantly lunging strike and bull charge. Thats usually game over. It's all timing. If they survive that, I will shield block until Lunging strike or bull charge is up again, and if I have my daily up, I'll send em into the next county.
I miss on any of my rotation or if they get the 1 up on me, they turn the tables. Same with any class. Each class has it's advantages and disadvantages. GF's are far from in need of a nerf. Just need to know how to counter them.
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faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited September 2013
In almost any game tanks are most feared in pvp and most desired in pve but they give up a lot in gameplay to me. They are melee , easy to run away from (except VERY certain ones which I won't name here lol) and really just meat shields in pvp unless they spend a lot of time or money to get otherwise.
In World of Warcraft warriors aka closest thing to GF were always feared in pvp and just evil to deal with if you got caught by them with your pants down out in the world .
Just figure out how to counter their 'stuff' and don't ask for nerfs.
I have gotten my cleric to where being bounced around like a football at least does not kill her (used to be that killed her right there until I improved her) and she has a chance to recover 'most' the time. If a GF is really good she might not though especially if his team mates are on their game and get her while she is bouncing around.
My CW just runs from them
Anyway, it is frustrating when a class owns you over and over in pvp but go to the AH, either spend money or spend time (farming) for new gear and enchants and you will do better. I have soulforged and while I understand tene is the counter to that (from someone ) at least I have a fighting chance.
Forgot to say I can melee on my DC with a GF who is moderately geared fine. The really good geared ones who worked harder than I did on gear own me but that is how it should be, you work hard you get the rewards.
Comments
First I am a TR mainly and I hope GFs do not get nerfed. Fighting a challenging opponent in pvp is half the fun. The individuals wanting nerfs honestly are not woman enough or man enough the face the challenge. Every class has a disadvantages and players should just learn how to use the disadvantages of their opponents. You win some and lose some. Losing in pvp is not a big deal at all yet people try to make it into a big deal.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
This is one TR who is against nerfing GFs. Players should face the challenge and live or die. You win some and loose some.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
I am a TR and I also already posted that fighters do not need a nerf.
Thanks for playing, have a wonderful time!
Lol, nice one
Reason: It's already a bad class.
It needs a buff.
Reason: Enduring Warrior, Guarded Assault and Ferocious Reaction are BAD, the first 2 ones are useless. I read some stuff about people saying the only way to tank in a dungeon is to deal dps, well this is totally wrong and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> since if you are dps you will die because you dont have survavility, that, sir, is noobish. DPS specline is fun for PVP or Gauntry pvp, Yes its too much dps for a half-orc to 2 shot people with knights challenge, anyways the dps tank can be butter if a knife lands on his back (icy knife or shocking). I just don't see the reason that someone told before for reducing his guard meter. That is also noobish. Just by using the brain you can take down whatever class.
Please, dont come here and cry because your lack of skills. Learn your class.
Have a good day.
The 2 shotting was with tenebs and lunging+bull, no knights. Maybe there was one cleave too, but still pretty much a 2 shot, 24k health. "L2p, you should never get hit by bull charge or lunging on a 6sec cd, ever" is a very poor arguement if i can even call it one. Defensive GF controls threat easily in pve, i don't get what you're trying to say with this...
fixed it for you
and you also answered whats the real reason on how GF 2 hit KO other classes
all TR that says GF def is so high are n00bs
just look at TRs armors you can have high ArPen with just armors they will hit GFs like they dont have any armor equiped
low power but can crit up to 20k+LB without BiS enchants
L2P
GFs guard is already nerfed they reduced guard meter by almost 30%
You're right, tenebs certainly needs to get nerfed (or removed) too, but it only stands for about 20% of the damage they do. the fact that gfs can do 80% in 2 hits without KC and not a lot of ARP and still have one encounter to chain cc you with after that is broken. Simple as that.
Edit: we all know tenebs won't get nerfed though, because they come from lockboxes... even though they're clearly broken too.
so why do you still say that GFs are OP if you know that its tenes fault?
GFs are OP can 2 shot with tene? :cool:
compare tene and arpen what adds more damage? (Arpen > tene and TR can have 30+ Arpen easily)
this is just waste of time on forums for all of us, u and my fellow GFs
Haw haw, the good ol' "l2p" instead of real arguements. I don't even need to say anything :rolleyes:
To get 30% ArP on a TR you would have to sacrifice every other stat. I have the highest ArP armor + weapons, ArP on neck and belt and 1 R7 dark and I only have 23%, and that's where ArP starts hitting the big diminishing returns. GF's get free ArP from dex, my GF has ~1600 ArP which is around 15% + 8% from dex = 23% which is average to above average on a TR that doesn't have 6 R8 dark's and therefore low crit/power.
GF's don't need a nerf though, they already got a big nerf to block from what I can tell, which also reduces their power by half when block is gone. They are CC machine's with decent survivability and good damage, but certainly not OP. As with all classes when clad in 40mil AD they do quite well heh.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
That was a complete troll to abombination247 the constant tr nerf campaigner complainer.
some abilities OP? sure but everyone (almost) has something.
Out of context is great for you.
2 pages back where is said they don't need it, you ignore, good for you.
Thanks for playing, have a wonderful time![/
You know block meter come from str dmg too and dmr , most imortant stat after con (i am not sure you can do any instance with full dex no block and no dmr , g.tene will not help y to keep agro. This build is only good for pvp but no good on pve :garbage.
Guard only get +1%. Last time i make a video of my blocking ability it count over 5k or 6k with shield talent. So all mobs hit more than 1k(after reduction!) automatically get hard capped block consume. Only in PvP and some mobs help shield talent and str-increase. Other hit to hard that these improvements give you any benefit for using it! 5k*1,01 = 5050! Oh yeah... So by 30 you only got 6k instead of 5k, much more... I will it test now if they really reduce the guard ability per video recording. But i don't think they do it.
One-shotting people is of course possible with your attacks critting, tenebrous enchantments and knights challenge up. But Knights Challenge also makes the GF receive double damage from the challenged target. When your target dogdes your Lunging Strike you might get hit by a 50k shocking execution in the back or get disabled really fast and get an Ice Dagger in the face. Or get knocked down by the GWF that just used unstoppable. Also Knights Challenge has a long CD and works only on one target so in group fights, its often not too effective.
Furthermore GFs defense was indirectly nerfed by changing the Stalwart Bulwark set and there seem to be undocumented changes nerfing the blocking ability of GFs like the people in this thread describe: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?470541-GF-Block-useless-in-PVP-since-patch - also some defensive feats seems to be bugged as well. Additionaly there was a feat that most human GFs had that added +10%/20%/30% crowd control duration, which was changed to additional 0.1sec/0.2sec/0.3sec duration on Prone.
GF is really nice for pubstomp PvP, when you play against green geared opponents who have not played a lot against GF before. Other than that I dont find it too difficult playing against GFs when I pvp with my TR and CW, still finding GWF harder to 1on1 against in most situations.
Hits received:
47 vs. 59(every last break it total)
5081(-114) vs. 5818(-95)
W/o | with shield talent
all with 16 strength, shield master(-10% guard consume). Same as i stated 2 august 2013.
So all of this is WRONG that the guard is decreased!
Greater Tenebrous deals 3% HP necrotic damage once every 20 seconds. Let's say a player got 36k HP, with 7 offense slots, that's a total of 3x7= 21% HP Necro damage which is about ~ 7560 damage.
So basically if i do 10k damage with my GF/GWF, i would do 17560 instead.So you must gave good base damage ( and lots of HP) already or your tenebrous would be worthless.
On a TR or a CW, they usually get the range of 27k HP.. that's about 5670 damage from tenebrous. So if a lashing blade hits you for 17k, it would do 22670 instead.
So as you see, what one shots you is the class's base damage not the tenebrous because if a TR can do 17k lashing blade to you then you are pretty much dead anyways.
Now about how to counter this,
Just dodge the first attack they do, if their main encounters are on CD then they will be forced to use At-Wills which would burn their tenebrous burst.
The same effect can happen if you remove tenebrous, and stack rank 9/rank 8 armor penetration instead.
But people go for tenebrous because of the burst, Armor pen is more like constant damage.
Maybe he hasn't found out that it's hard for a GF to bounce him around if the GF can't see him lol. He might not know about the almighty "Impossible to Catch", or he hasn't found out that the "Sly flourish" at-will provides CC immunity after the first two strikes.
He might not of tried using deft strike to teleport behind the GF's shield.
The OP clearly has no idea how to handle GFs. GFs are not a big deal for TRs. OP needs to L2P before he makes this class completely useless.
Thanks for the sly flourish information. I didn't even know it and have it rank 3. Even without it GFs can be handled.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
I think you are referring to Duelist's Flurry. We become immune to knockbacks and prones once the animation for the third strike of DF starts. I'm not sure about Stuns and Daze, however, since I only slot Duelist's Flurry whenever I see more than 2 GWF's/GF's in the opposing team. Sly Flourish is our most basic melee at-will which is fast, reliable and very flexible, but it doesn't make us immune to CC at all.
I also main as a TR, and I do not think GF's are OP. It should be common knowledge that GF's will try to send you prone as soon as you're locked into combat against one, and that letting yourself get hit by that first shot will often spell death. But we have dodge, we have stealth, we have the liberty of being the ones who open up against them. By playing against these beefy classes defensively and carefully, it's very possible to at least lock them in a stalemate if killing them is not a possibility. But we have a wide variety of encounters that also help us react to their actions and eventually kill the beefy classes even if it tends to be a slow process. The important thing is that we do not die, in my opinion. Losing out on more than 15 seconds being out in the playing field, not being able to react to what your opponents do, can give them a huge advantage within that short span of time.
The GF is also melee-centered class, no ranged abilities and most GF's will have to close in on you in order to deal good damage. This, in turn, makes them susceptible to getting landed with Duelist's Flurry and it can be devastating once the bleeds kick in. A combo of Impossible to Catch and Duelist's Flurry helps us get those damage and bleeds in 1 vs. 1 scenarios. Follow up with Shadow Strike to get the Stealth meter back. The only time a GF should be able to land a prone encounter against a TR would be when ITC is out, and when ITC is out a TR will most usually be in Stealth. The GF will then have to predict where the TR will go and use his prone encounters once he catches a glimpse of the TR's silhouette and I've seen quite a lot of PVP-ers do this against me which is always a learning experience.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Its getting easier and easier fighting GF's and GWF's now I feel I've mastered DF. Its all about timing. "Most" GF's arent that good in pvp. Dodge the first encounter, start your DF rotation at range, second DF get closer, by the time you hit your third rotation/animation, the GF is more then likely lunging at you, or even just within range, and you'll land DF bleed. I like to follow up with Dazing strike after the DF animation, which most of the time works out well and doesnt get interrupted because they burn there prone encounters while you are in DF animation. Then follow up with LB after Dazing. This rotation being fully landed most GF's I've fought are now at 30% or less health, lesser geared I've one shot with this rotation.
A good GF will see a TR starting his DF rotation and stay at range, not being dumb and burning his encounters. Or, they will try and lunge you during your first 1-2 rotations.
Of course like anything else, there isnt really any "perfect" rotation for fighting anyone imo. Its all situational dependant, added with gear/skill and a little bit of luck. I used to think DF was stupid in pvp until I started using it and getting better with it. Now I absolutely love it, and 90% of the time I'm timing it so foolish people are running into me at the animation. Same goes for Dazing, the animation is long so most rogues think its bad and chose not to use it, because its hard to be effective with it. I LOVE dazing, it hits just as hard as LB +stun, its my little buddy encounter =P The only time I take out Dazing is when I'm up against some very good CW's, I'll slot ItC.
GF's are absolutely not OP. No one in this game is. My least favorite is the CW's range but meh, its a small price to pay for how much we murder them in PvP.
A good Player is OP, not the class. Learn that and believe it, and you will get better at PvP.
Now, how to get around a good CW... I use Threatening rush to "fake out" a CW to burn their dodges. When they are dashing around to get out of range they can't do anything to me. After their 3rd dash, they will usually start up their barrage. Thats my cue. I can take alot of damage (35k+ hps), so they aren't going to burn me down too fast. As they are building their chill stacks, I hit em with Knights Challenge, then instantly lunging strike and bull charge. Thats usually game over. It's all timing. If they survive that, I will shield block until Lunging strike or bull charge is up again, and if I have my daily up, I'll send em into the next county.
I miss on any of my rotation or if they get the 1 up on me, they turn the tables. Same with any class. Each class has it's advantages and disadvantages. GF's are far from in need of a nerf. Just need to know how to counter them.
In World of Warcraft warriors aka closest thing to GF were always feared in pvp and just evil to deal with if you got caught by them with your pants down out in the world .
Just figure out how to counter their 'stuff' and don't ask for nerfs.
I have gotten my cleric to where being bounced around like a football at least does not kill her (used to be that killed her right there until I improved her) and she has a chance to recover 'most' the time. If a GF is really good she might not though especially if his team mates are on their game and get her while she is bouncing around.
My CW just runs from them
Anyway, it is frustrating when a class owns you over and over in pvp but go to the AH, either spend money or spend time (farming) for new gear and enchants and you will do better. I have soulforged and while I understand tene is the counter to that (from someone ) at least I have a fighting chance.
Forgot to say I can melee on my DC with a GF who is moderately geared fine. The really good geared ones who worked harder than I did on gear own me but that is how it should be, you work hard you get the rewards.