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((T2)) Thaumaturge Spec/Powers/Role

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  • kerrovitarrakerrovitarra Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 559 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    Well, I tested EotS on Mimic. And it looks even better, than before "nerf". It seems to proc with high chance from every encounter hit (for CoI it 6 hits, each can proc EotS). But on other hand, EotS make your crit stat useless.
  • umaekoumaeko Member Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    Chilling Presence is 6% for the first rank. You forgot to add 2 more ranks for a potential total of 18%.
    Ah, good point. x_x

    I was thinking about it while only reading the tooltips, while forgetting the ranks I leveled it up. Sorry for the mindfart. :)

    This said, what I had especially in mind was more akin to the worth of "more critical hit up-time", especially thanks to several non-critting powers now critting and, like you mentioned, Critical Power. Of course, there is the overlap, so I was more puzzled over if it was still more worth one class feature over another.

    It sounds like you were wondering too! xD
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I just did a few quick tests on dummies, and honestly while I do see the buff icon showing up often, I am not really seeing a difference when it comes to AP gain with Critical Power. It seems that without using EotS, our average critical chance of 30-35% is good enough to make full use of Critical Power and its 10second ICD.

    So the only important test for SotS is if it can contribute more in raw dps over the course of a dungeon run in comparison to Chilling Presence.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • uurbsuurbs Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 449 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    I just did a few quick tests on dummies, and honestly while I do see the buff icon showing up often, I am not really seeing a difference when it comes to AP gain with Critical Power. It seems that without using EotS, our average critical chance of 30-35% is good enough to make full use of Critical Power and its 10second ICD.
    In my tests on the dummies regarding AP gain and the comparison between Chilling Presence (CP) and Eye of the Storm (EotS), I noted that with CP the AP gain is always around 25 seconds and with EotS it was between 23 and 27 seconds. I normally do prefer a more reliable way. But I still need to do the damage tests--which I'm planing to do on the weekend.
    Proud member of Dragon Clan - German Gaming Community
  • pfft2pfft2 Member Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    uurbs wrote: »
    In my tests on the dummies regarding AP gain and the comparison between Chilling Presence (CP) and Eye of the Storm (EotS), I noted that with CP the AP gain is always around 25 seconds and with EotS it was between 23 and 27 seconds. I normally do prefer a more reliable way. But I still need to do the damage tests--which I'm planing to do on the weekend.

    The main synergies for Eye of the Storm seem to be Nightmare Wizardry and Storm Spell. For Renegades, the change to EotS is therefore a significant buff.

    For Thaumaturge builds, I'm still not sure.

    In any case, EotS's benefit to Critical Power is basically a dead end because of CP's internal cooldown. In fact, EotS may (as you noticed) diminish the benefit of Critical Power because EotS increases the likelihood that the feat will proc on a dinky single-target attack in any given 10-second period.

    The big dilemma, from where I'm sitting, is that Storm Pillar's crit ability is currently gimped beyond all recognition, which means that it's effectively unusable with EotS. So if you slot EotS, you're kinda stuck with Chilling Cloud as your bread-and-butter AoE At-Will -- but Chilling Cloud really shines with Chilling Presence and Storm Spell. Chicken and Egg; the very Class Feature that might make you want to switch away from Chilling Cloud doesn't work with Chilling Cloud's only real alternative.
  • mickwanmickwan Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 43
    edited August 2013
    so i assume now chilling cloud will no longer proc Elemental Empowerment?
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Without going into how I am going adept and change things around, it is safe to say that I am extremely disappointed with this expansion.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • dornodiosmiosdornodiosmios Member Posts: 1
    edited August 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    Without going into how I am going adept and change things around, it is safe to say that I am extremely disappointed with this expansion.

    ****, that makes me so sad. I was following this thread closely and only recently leveling to 60 I was really hoping to try your build out after the patch... This news plus the whole nightmare mount fiasco really makes for a crappy day.

    Never the less, thank you very much for your timely update to this thread. It is great to know you are still working on it and I look forward to seeing your final version, whether it is all you hoped it could be or not. Thank you Copticone!

    -Diosia on Mindflayer
  • daswoolydaswooly Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    copticone wrote: »
    Without going into how I am going adept and change things around, it is safe to say that I am extremely disappointed with this expansion.
    I'm having some issues fully interpreting these changes. What has changed that have made things so bad for this build in particular?
  • umaekoumaeko Member Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Um, there might be more than that.

    I don't know if you guys noticed, but the tooltip for the High Vizier set has, ah, dramatically changed.

    Set 2: +10 Recovery
    Set 4: your control powers steal 10 defense from the target, increasing your defense by that amount

    Wasn't it much higher than that? o.O
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    daswooly wrote: »
    I'm having some issues fully interpreting these changes. What has changed that have made things so bad for this build in particular?

    I think my comment was misinterpreted. It's not so much the changes to CWs, but more so everything that has to do with the expansion. More importantly, not addressing the countless issues/bugs/Powers not working as intended that have been discussed for months on these forums. I am sorry, I don't mean to derail my own thread, so I am going to end it at that.

    I will wait about a week or so, to test some things, before I suggest any changes to this spec. It's still perfectly viable for everything and anything. But we all like to tweak things here and there.
    umaeko wrote: »
    Um, there might be more than that.

    I don't know if you guys noticed, but the tooltip for the High Vizier set has, ah, dramatically changed.

    Set 2: +10 Recovery
    Set 4: your control powers steal 10 defense from the target, increasing your defense by that amount

    Wasn't it much higher than that? o.O

    Umm is it April fools already?! :P

    Well at least my HV set is the same as before :)
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    umaeko wrote: »
    Um, there might be more than that.

    I don't know if you guys noticed, but the tooltip for the High Vizier set has, ah, dramatically changed.

    Set 2: +10 Recovery
    Set 4: your control powers steal 10 defense from the target, increasing your defense by that amount

    Wasn't it much higher than that? o.O

    Set bonuses look different depending on your level. Check while on your level 60 toon.

    Of course, if you are level 60, then this yet one more critical bug... Though for me nothing can beat not being able to whisper/tell players (and that they have been told of this bug on preview for weeks), lol!
  • pfft2pfft2 Member Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    fondlez wrote: »
    Set bonuses look different depending on your level. Check while on your level 60 toon.

    Of course, if you are level 60, then this yet one more critical bug... Though for me nothing can beat not being able to whisper/tell players (and that they have been told of this bug on preview for weeks), lol!

    LOL, yeah, umaeko just about gave me a heart attack until I processed the Recovery number, which just flat-out can't be right (at level 60). :)
  • umaekoumaeko Member Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    fondlez wrote: »
    Set bonuses look different depending on your level. Check while on your level 60 toon.

    Oh, yeah. That makes sense. I'm checking back now that I'm a bit higher level, and the bonuses went up to 47.

    I was just thinking I'd buy the 4-piece set ahead of time with the 600k AD I got from the KotF pack, and then saw that and took it as yet another hit for CWs. Glad I was wrong, though!

    Sorry for the false-alarm! ^_^;
  • kidbskidbs Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 294
    edited August 2013
    I have to say that so far I am very pleased with the patch. I am loving Sudden Storm now that it can crit. I'm getting some nice 20k+ crits from it. Also, Storm Pillar with Destructive Wizardry is working quite nicely. I don't miss the shield pop singularity spam at all.
  • exarkun007exarkun007 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 113 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    Anyone else feel really squishy all of a sudden? Did some spider runs with the guild earlier...we used to blow through it, this time I went through about 15 kits because I kept getting one shot. Noticed an inordinately high occurrence of crits on me.
  • dornodiosmiosdornodiosmios Member Posts: 1
    edited August 2013
    exarkun007 wrote: »
    Anyone else feel really squishy all of a sudden? Did some spider runs with the guild earlier...we used to blow through it, this time I went through about 15 kits because I kept getting one shot. Noticed an inordinately high occurrence of crits on me.

    Are you sure you were actually 1 shotted every time? Aside from some stealthy changes the only thing I can come up with is the possibility than you are generating more threat now and thus are taking more damage overall. That theory doesn't fly if you are being killed from full, or near full health by a single mobs attack.

    Also, good to hear that your build is still viable Copticone. I just hit 60 a cpl days ago and was waiting to respec until the Feywild came out. I'd figured I'd have to wait a couple days for the dust to settle and for an update to your build. So I hope you are able to work some more of your magic while you continue to test/try things over the next week or so. I eagerly look forward to your suggestions/information. Thank you for sharing with everyone!
  • exarkun007exarkun007 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 113 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    I was seeing 17-22k crits regularly, other times little mobs would hit me, and it would be a string of crits back to back to back.
  • dornodiosmiosdornodiosmios Member Posts: 1
    edited August 2013
    Hmm, that does seem like a pretty high amount of damage to take in one hit. I'm not likely going to run a dungeon tonight, but, I will ASAP and I'll let you know if I notice anything. Thanks for the reply.
  • exarkun007exarkun007 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 113 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    I likely was taking a lot of aggro as I was about 30% above anyone else in the group in damage done, but I still felt far squishier than I ever had previously.
  • spacemoose5spacemoose5 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I noticed chill no longer stack on bosses at all - not a good sign for this build - hope it's just a bug.
  • freedumb4evafreedumb4eva Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 342
    edited August 2013
    I noticed chill no longer stack on bosses at all - not a good sign for this build - hope it's just a bug.

    It's probably a bug. I slot EoTS and Storm Spell any how so the stacks of chill don't really matter for me as long as there's one.
  • tokse2tokse2 Member Posts: 117 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2013
    exarkun007 wrote: »
    Anyone else feel really squishy all of a sudden? Did some spider runs with the guild earlier...we used to blow through it, this time I went through about 15 kits because I kept getting one shot. Noticed an inordinately high occurrence of crits on me.

    The crazy blademasters at the end boss, eh? They slaughtered me here one day, but that was before the feywild update.
  • chr15bchr15b Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Didn't have problems running Spider Temple with this build after the patch, but I did get my *** handed to me damage-wise by the other CW, who was renegade spec. It's making me want to try out renegade right now.
  • kgrizzle22kgrizzle22 Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Is the build on the first page still up to date? Or is everyone still theorycrafting for the current patch? I haven't been able to run anything yet and was curious if people were switching to renegade as I'm hearing it has become slightly better
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    The build in the OP is perfectly viable in its current state. However due to bugs/issues/uncertainty of certain powers working as intended that came with the most recent patch/expansion, I won't be making any adjustments until at least a week or so. It is getting more and more frustrating dealing with stealth changes. I really don't understand all these underhanded tweaks. It's like one of the objectives of the game is to decipher the hidden meanings and actual mechanics of Powers completely on our own.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • noojsternoojster Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    My arcane renegade build struggles as well. With shield's new formula to arcane stack mastery now giving me horrible AP and cooldown I might switch back to this build.

    MeyvnHart
    Lvl 60 Control Wizard (Tiefling) - Spellstorm Mage [Thauma-DPS]
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  • kgrizzle22kgrizzle22 Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Meh. I hope I don't have to switch from 24 int 14 wis 24 cha to pure INT/WIS due to AP problems.
  • copticonecopticone Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    kgrizzle22 wrote: »
    Meh. I hope I don't have to switch from 24 int 14 wis 24 cha to pure INT/WIS due to AP problems.

    No, the small % gain in AP from WIS will be even more insignificant. WIS AP gain gets better the more AP an encounter can generate. So now with the Shield AP nerf, it means the benefit it will get from WIS is even worse.
    Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    dungeons have been buffed to level 65 i believe, atleast the one that i ran.
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