Are you guys really QQing over a daily getting nerfed? you know what even if they outright removed Slam i could still play GWF so i really don't see the issue with having to swap 1 daily if it comes to that.
And to top it off you are *****ing about something that isn't even live yet, FFS people go play the test shard and actually give Cryptic some well thought out non aggressive feedback i'm sure you will get a better response, it's like you are all 12 and have no control over your emotions.
It is much more than a daily (and is the 2nd time a TR daily has been eviscerated) getting nerfed and quite a few people have been giving feedback based on playing preview. So far, none of the comments I have seen from people who play rogues and have tested on the server have felt these changes were positive, reasonable, or fair.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
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shadowboxMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
It is much more than a daily (and is the 2nd time a TR daily has been eviscerated) getting nerfed and quite a few people have been giving feedback based on playing preview. So far, none of the comments I have seen from people who play rogues and have tested on the server have felt these changes were positive, reasonable, or fair.
That may all be well and true but has nothing to do with my point, my point being that these types of threads are just uselesss rabble and the feedback could be submitted in a much more useful and meaningful way, instead of name calling and ranting about the issue with no rational thought behind any of it.
To be more clear i'm not arguing the validity of the argument itself, but the validity of the way it is being argued and the childishness being propagated on these forums, people have to realize this rabid reaction will not help their case in any way.
And i do apologize for my initial reaction, but the discussion on here is simply toxic and should not be tolerated under any circumstance, people are letting their emotion on the subject get the better of them and it only hurts their case as they come off as extremists.
And to top it off you are *****ing about something that isn't even live yet, FFS people go play the test shard and actually give Cryptic some well thought out non aggressive feedback i'm sure you will get a better response, it's like you are all 12 and have no control over your emotions.
Maybe you need to look at the test shard forum and see that people are doing exactly that. You also need to go and look at the patch notes and understand what they mean, because you clearly jumped in without having any idea what you were talking about.
feedback could be submitted in a much more useful and meaningful way, instead of name calling and ranting about the issue with no rational thought behind any of it.
You have a lot of nerve. See your post above.
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shadowboxMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
And you also have some nerve, telling me your opinion is somehow more valid even though you have no numbers to back up anything you are saying, maybe the nerf is overboard maybe it isn't until there is proof like hard numbers then you have no valid claim, in fact i would say cryptic probably has the best perspective as they do have hard numbers, now i'm not saying that makes their nerf justified but until people can come up with a good counter argument then i will dismiss the notion that what they are doing can only be wrong and their is no chance all these ranting TR are wrong.
So far the only arguments i've seen are opinions, opinions aren't facts they are baseless arguments stemming from the untamed rage of a select few, you have to remember those who are most vocal are often the minority as those who are satisfied are not on here ranting.
That may all be well and true but has nothing to do with my point, my point being that these types of threads are just uselesss rabble and the feedback could be submitted in a much more useful and meaningful way, instead of name calling and ranting about the issue with no rational thought behind any of it.
To be more clear i'm not arguing the validity of the argument itself, but the validity of the way it is being argued and the childishness being propagated on these forums, people have to realize this rabid reaction will not help their case in any way.
And i do apologize for my initial reaction, but the discussion on here is simply toxic and should not be tolerated under any circumstance, people are letting their emotion on the subject get the better of them and it only hurts their case as they come off as extremists.
The apology isn't valid when the paragraph preceding it describes precisely what you did. There are many well thought out and well constructed posts on this thread. Yours isn't one of them.
until there is proof like hard numbers then you have no valid claim, in fact i would say cryptic probably has the best perspective as they do have hard numbers, now i'm not saying that makes their nerf justified but until people can come up with a good counter argument then i will dismiss the notion that what they are doing can only be wrong and their is no chance all these ranting TR are wrong.
You're unbelievable. Go look at the test shard forums, the hard numbers are there, the details of what the patch will do are there, the well-thought-out arguments are there.
But instead of going there and reading and understanding what's going on, you're going to continue these rants, which are exactly what you're complaining about other people doing. You seem to be the one who is too emotionally wound up here.
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shadowboxMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
The apology isn't valid when it's precisely what you did. There are many well thought out and well constructed posts on this thread. Yours isn't one of them.
The problem with your argument is a well thought out post doesn't make it any less of an opinion than a post that isn't, and am i the one ranting i'm sorry did you read the rest of this thread cause that seems like ranting to me but okay.
And here you all doing the exact opposite of what you are seemingly defending, i'm not here to say you are wrong on the subject yet you feel it is okay to personally attack me, my only point was that people on here could calm down about this potential nerf for live rogues.
You're unbelievable. Go look at the test shard forums, the hard numbers are there, the details of what the patch will do are there, the well-thought-out arguments are there.
But instead of going there and reading and understanding what's going on, you're going to continue these rants, which are exactly what you're complaining about other people doing. You seem to be the one who is too emotionally wound up here.
Did you read anything i said, i'm not talking about people who are actually on the test shard giving feedback, much of the feedback on the test shards is valid, i'm specifically talking about this thread, also please don't stoop to insults, i'm not personally insulting any of you, yet you seem to think that it's okay?
So far the only arguments i've seen are opinions, opinions aren't facts they are baseless arguments stemming from the untamed rage of a select few
Pretty sure that's not the definition of opinion. If it were, it would apply equally to everyone who posts anyway, so would be a moot point. Remember, this is a discussion forum and people are allowed to discuss things if they stick to the RoC.
also please don't stoop to insults, i'm not personally insulting any of you yet you seem to think thats okay?
I insulted you? Where? When I said you were being emotional (which seems to be the case)? After you called us all little children who can't control their emotions? Do you realize that you are complaining about yourself in this thread?
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shadowboxMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
I insulted you? Where? When I said you were being emotional (which seems to be the case)? After you called us all little children who can't control their emotions? Do you realize that you are complaining about yourself in this thread?
I was obviously generalizing, and i never said anyone was 12 only that certain people weren't acting their age, my point was that none of the discussion on this thread was getting anyone anywhere and that energy could be better put into proper methods of feedback with proper evidence to confirm ones point, i don't have a personal vendetta against anyone in this thread, and yes my original post was coming from a place of anger.
but when thread after thread on these forums is filled with people spewing their <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> around without any basis for their opinion yes it can be very angering, and yes i would say you where fairly aggressive in your post but it doesn't matter i'm not here to argue about that.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I was obviously generalizing, and i never said anyone was 12 only that certain people weren't acting their age, my point was that none of the discussion on this thread was getting anyone anywhere and that energy could be better put into proper methods of feedback with proper evidence to confirm ones point, i don't have a personal vendetta against anyone in this thread, and yes my original post was coming from a place of anger.
but when thread after thread on these forums is filled with people spewing their <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> around without any basis for their opinion yes it can be very angering, and yes i would say you where fairly aggressive in your post but it doesn't matter i'm not here to argue about that.
I dont understand the point of what your in here trying to argue. When there is and has been very detailed and rational, factual discussions being held in this very thread and many many more. Your posts seems to be paying attention to the childish, immature posts and dismissing of the actual posts of worth. Its been ALOT of basis been put out at this point. I've been eyeing this and many other threads upon this topic for the passed week. Been alot of evidence and proper feed back given in here and many other thread already. They are mentioned in this thread, but in this thread is merely in discussion taking into addition that data in the other threads as well. Where those threads are in discussion mostly consisting of said data. This thread is mostly of a general discussion upon the topic.
i never said anyone was 12 only that certain people weren't acting their age
You were insulting a whole group of people, any way you slice it. It doesn't make it OK that you weren't targeting a specific person. That's like arguing that murder is wrong, but genocide is OK.
i would say you where fairly aggressive in your post
I was being blunt. It felt like aggression to you because it stung due to the embarrassment of being factually wrong, not because you were being personally attacked. I wasn't calling you names, I was saying that you were factually wrong; that's not an attack.
I didn't say you said that, I said it as a follow up to what I'd already said. You just pointed out that PWE own Cryptic, that makes them the customer.
As for your phone call scenario, I disagree, they don't need to see sales drop, they're always working on new things to put in the store.
The fact PWE owns Cryptic doesn't make them the customer. Sure if you want to talk corporate buzzword speak then yes they are an internal customer. Your posts while professionally worded and long are completely deluded. Your posts are full of rhetoric typical of mid level managers or politicians meant to sound informed and important while not understanding the issue at its core.
Regardless of how you want to spin it the customer is you and I and every other player who has or will spend money on the game. The voice that matters is the overall collective opinion of that group within reason as long as expectations can be executed with a profit. WE are the people PWE and the shareholders want to spend money. WE are the people they want to be happy and engaged because that is what makes us spend the money. Sometimes you obviously will not execute what the customer wants but at the very least you can show some empathy and have a presence that at least lets them know you are listening. That is completely missing.
I am not asking you if they are mismanaged. I am telling you they are either mismanaged OR the company is simply a cash grab. Why do I say that and why do many people vent? Look how many bugs were carried over from their other games. Look how long bugs they introduce in patches last.
Regarding the shareholders they are investors not customers. I am sure they are not very happy at the moment. They aren't mad at me though and most likely wouldn't disagree with me. Some of the things that have happened in the "beta" were inexcusable mistakes.
Reply and argue all you want but one thing is clear WE are the customers and our opinion counts. When companies forget that they die.
Because the validity comes from the content of the posts rather than the count, right?
So, can you explain what is invalid about the rogue nerf complaints? Bonus points if you actually understand what the nerf does.
A good number of the TR nerf complaints are devoid of anything other than complaint. Many of those posting provide no constructive criticism, alternative options, relevant data, or anything else other than complaint.
Complaints empty of anything other than complaint are simply expressions of discontent with no evidence of validity whatsoever. As such, they are empty complaints with no value to anyone, that simply boost the number of complaint posts.
A good number of the TR nerf complaints are devoid of anything other than complaint. Many of those posting provide no constructive criticism, alternative options, relevant data, or anything else other than complaint.
Unfortunately, the last two pages of this thread contain barely anything but veiled personal attacks and complaints about complainers complaining. I'm surprised people haven't starting correcting each other's typo's yet.
If there was a problem with perma-stealth builds, which mostly sacrificed damage in order to not be detected there are better ways of dealing with it then gutting the class.
Increase the range at which PCs can see stealthed characters, obviously makes the rogue a bit easier to control, but at least you would have more chance at knowing where the damage was coming from.
Reducing bait and switch.
DPS of the striker class should be significantly above the other classes that bring something else to the table. By significant that means being wanted in groups. The combined effect of these multiple nerfs in one go ,make it higher likely that the rogue becomes the red headed step child that nobody wants to play with.
The fact PWE owns Cryptic doesn't make them the customer. Sure if you want to talk corporate buzzword speak then yes they are an internal customer. Your posts while professionally worded and long are completely deluded. Your posts are full of rhetoric typical of mid level managers or politicians meant to sound informed and important while not understanding the issue at its core.
Regardless of how you want to spin it the customer is you and I and every other player who has or will spend money on the game. The voice that matters is the overall collective opinion of that group within reason as long as expectations can be executed with a profit. WE are the people PWE and the shareholders want to spend money. WE are the people they want to be happy and engaged because that is what makes us spend the money. Sometimes you obviously will not execute what the customer wants but at the very least you can show some empathy and have a presence that at least lets them know you are listening. That is completely missing.
I am not asking you if they are mismanaged. I am telling you they are either mismanaged OR the company is simply a cash grab. Why do I say that and why do many people vent? Look how many bugs were carried over from their other games. Look how long bugs they introduce in patches last.
Regarding the shareholders they are investors not customers. I am sure they are not very happy at the moment. They aren't mad at me though and most likely wouldn't disagree with me. Some of the things that have happened in the "beta" were inexcusable mistakes.
Reply and argue all you want but one thing is clear WE are the customers and our opinion counts. When companies forget that they die.
I'm afraid you're very mistaken, explaining that devs are not customer facing, and hence don't have the paying public as their customer, is not rhetoric typical of mid level managers or politicians meant to sound informed and important while not understanding the issue at its core; it's knowing what I'm talking about. You've still never explained what you believe these issues are, but you've clearly stated that the people who hire the development staff are mismanaging and should be fired.
Here's an analogy. I worked for a bank making one of their core systems. The business decided what the system should do, we coded it to their specifications. They were my customer. If they had a problem with the system I'd look at it and answer to them. I didn't have a relationship with members of the public, they were customer of the bank but not my customer. If a customer of the bank had a problem they spoke to the business. If the problem was a system bug the business dealt with me and the customer was kept entirely out of the loop. If a customer didn't like something to do with the system that was between them and the business; we worked to spec and nothing else. Similar thing here.
I know full well that the paying public are customers, just not the customers of the people you are judging and criticising. The people that make those decisions are higher up the food chain. If you want to change your story from claiming the development team, those doing the hiring of staff who code, who do 3d modelling, etc. and who do not and should not cover for each other, are mismanaging things and now change that to the people at PWE who DO make the decisions about what the devs should be working on, then that's fine. I just don't like to sit back and watch someone berate someone else for "pretending to know the company structure" whilst doing exactly the same thing a few seconds later. All of this could have been avoided after my second post.
I've clearly said that I do not disagree that PWE operate a cash grab, as you put it. The fact that your response to that is to repeat it just seems to demonstrate that you don't understand what I said.
I'm afraid you're very mistaken, explaining that devs are not customer facing, and hence don't have the paying public as their customer, is not rhetoric typical of mid level managers or politicians meant to sound informed and important while not understanding the issue at its core; it's knowing what I'm talking about. You've still never explained what you believe these issues are, but you've clearly stated that the people who hire the development staff are mismanaging and should be fired.
Here's an analogy. I worked for a bank making one of their core systems. The business decided what the system should do, we coded it to their specifications. They were my customer. If they had a problem with the system I'd look at it and answer to them. I didn't have a relationship with members of the public, they were customer of the bank but not my customer. If a customer of the bank had a problem they spoke to the business. If the problem was a system bug the business dealt with me and the customer was kept entirely out of the loop. If a customer didn't like something to do with the system that was between them and the business; we worked to spec and nothing else. Similar thing here.
I know full well that the paying public are customers, just not the customers of the people you are judging and criticising. The people that make those decisions are higher up the food chain. If you want to change your story from claiming the development team, those doing the hiring of staff who code, who do 3d modelling, etc. and who do not and should not cover for each other, are mismanaging things and now change that to the people at PWE who DO make the decisions about what the devs should be working on, then that's fine. I just don't like to sit back and watch someone berate someone else for "pretending to know the company structure" whilst doing exactly the same thing a few seconds later. All of this could have been avoided after my second post.
I've clearly said that I do not disagree that PWE operate a cash grab, as you put it. The fact that your response to that is to repeat it just seems to demonstrate that you don't understand what I said.
I will give you this. It is fair to say that we at least agree that it is likely they operate in a cash grab fashion. Based on that I would at least agree you could be correct that the management of Cryptic is doing as instructed by PWE.
Nobody sees a problem with permastealth soloing elite dungeons?
Nobody sees a problem when a single target DPS can out DPS an AOE class in a dungeon filled with 1k adds? Really?
TRs need toned down. Once the tears dry if they need a nudge back in the right direction for damage then it will be done.
Remember GWF was crushed in beta... They nudged them back up.
So its no big deal if people refuse to play with your rogue in the group for the next 2 months because you dont contribute like other classes do, until they nudge their output back up again?
So its no big deal if people refuse to play with your rogue in the group for the next 2 months because you dont contribute like other classes do, until they nudge their output back up again?
You guys didn't seem to mind when GWF was left out...
Besides you folks are down playing how much dps you will still do after the patch.
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ta1ch0u1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
I just love there is no feed back from the devs, or anything to note that they are seriously looking into it or any other possible changes other than basically killing off a class. So it looks like this is going to happen no matter what feed back we give them from test. Why would any group bring a TR to a group after this patch when you could have another 1 hit boss killing CW in your group? I would be fine re rolling another toon if they would only allow us to take our stone companions; and any other cash shop items, off of our now totally useless class.
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ta1ch0u1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
there is no down playing, i went from topping the zone wide to fighting to stay above the DC, and Im str/exec build full swashbuckling/gg with stone... that is just dumb.. I don't expect to be the top dps; should be the best single target cuz that is our only job, but to be just a little better than the healer in damage while every other class out surpasses you is crazy and there would be no need or desire to bring one after patch to any zone.
there is no down playing, i went from topping the zone wide to fighting to stay above the DC, and Im str/exec build full swashbuckling/gg with stone... that is just dumb.. I don't expect to be the top dps; should be the best single target cuz that is our only job, but to be just a little better than the healer in damage while every other class out surpasses you is crazy and there would be no need or desire to bring one after patch to any zone.
You have to be doing something wrong then if you are competing with the DC on DPS since the primary role of DC is to heal.
Everyone agrees that perma-stealth has to go, but no one agrees with cryptic's way of solving it. It would be as easy as a debuff timer on a boss, after 6-8 seconds boss reveals you from stealth, maybe 10 for lurkers. In PvP whenever you use an at-will people can see your outline just like when you get really close to them, this stops players from simply throwing knives all day. How easy is that? but instead people want to just nerf them to below GWF/CW in damage.
The one and only thing a TR can bring to a group is boss damage. GWF can clear adds, take huge amounts of damage, and kite enemies. CW can CC indefinitely and bump trash. Why take a TR when GWF or CW could do more damage? No reason, ever.
I don't even play a TR but I see how valuable a class dedicated to boss damage is, why do other classes not care about this? I don't want to take 10 extra minutes killing bosses from now on do you? Spellplague final boss is going to be just stupid if TR does 38% less damage.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
You guys didn't seem to mind when GWF was left out...
Besides you folks are down playing how much dps you will still do after the patch.
False by a long shot. I was one of the people who posted that they should not nerf any class to the level they did GWF literally because of the fact that players werent allowing them into their groups.
So, with the nature of your post indicating its no big deal, you dont mind if YOUR ROGUE is denied access to groups due to lack of contribution potential? Please answer the question.
Comments
It is much more than a daily (and is the 2nd time a TR daily has been eviscerated) getting nerfed and quite a few people have been giving feedback based on playing preview. So far, none of the comments I have seen from people who play rogues and have tested on the server have felt these changes were positive, reasonable, or fair.
That may all be well and true but has nothing to do with my point, my point being that these types of threads are just uselesss rabble and the feedback could be submitted in a much more useful and meaningful way, instead of name calling and ranting about the issue with no rational thought behind any of it.
To be more clear i'm not arguing the validity of the argument itself, but the validity of the way it is being argued and the childishness being propagated on these forums, people have to realize this rabid reaction will not help their case in any way.
And i do apologize for my initial reaction, but the discussion on here is simply toxic and should not be tolerated under any circumstance, people are letting their emotion on the subject get the better of them and it only hurts their case as they come off as extremists.
Maybe you need to look at the test shard forum and see that people are doing exactly that. You also need to go and look at the patch notes and understand what they mean, because you clearly jumped in without having any idea what you were talking about.
You have a lot of nerve. See your post above.
So far the only arguments i've seen are opinions, opinions aren't facts they are baseless arguments stemming from the untamed rage of a select few, you have to remember those who are most vocal are often the minority as those who are satisfied are not on here ranting.
The apology isn't valid when the paragraph preceding it describes precisely what you did. There are many well thought out and well constructed posts on this thread. Yours isn't one of them.
You're unbelievable. Go look at the test shard forums, the hard numbers are there, the details of what the patch will do are there, the well-thought-out arguments are there.
But instead of going there and reading and understanding what's going on, you're going to continue these rants, which are exactly what you're complaining about other people doing. You seem to be the one who is too emotionally wound up here.
The problem with your argument is a well thought out post doesn't make it any less of an opinion than a post that isn't, and am i the one ranting i'm sorry did you read the rest of this thread cause that seems like ranting to me but okay.
And here you all doing the exact opposite of what you are seemingly defending, i'm not here to say you are wrong on the subject yet you feel it is okay to personally attack me, my only point was that people on here could calm down about this potential nerf for live rogues.
Did you read anything i said, i'm not talking about people who are actually on the test shard giving feedback, much of the feedback on the test shards is valid, i'm specifically talking about this thread, also please don't stoop to insults, i'm not personally insulting any of you, yet you seem to think that it's okay?
I insulted you? Where? When I said you were being emotional (which seems to be the case)? After you called us all little children who can't control their emotions? Do you realize that you are complaining about yourself in this thread?
I was obviously generalizing, and i never said anyone was 12 only that certain people weren't acting their age, my point was that none of the discussion on this thread was getting anyone anywhere and that energy could be better put into proper methods of feedback with proper evidence to confirm ones point, i don't have a personal vendetta against anyone in this thread, and yes my original post was coming from a place of anger.
but when thread after thread on these forums is filled with people spewing their <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> around without any basis for their opinion yes it can be very angering, and yes i would say you where fairly aggressive in your post but it doesn't matter i'm not here to argue about that.
I dont understand the point of what your in here trying to argue. When there is and has been very detailed and rational, factual discussions being held in this very thread and many many more. Your posts seems to be paying attention to the childish, immature posts and dismissing of the actual posts of worth. Its been ALOT of basis been put out at this point. I've been eyeing this and many other threads upon this topic for the passed week. Been alot of evidence and proper feed back given in here and many other thread already. They are mentioned in this thread, but in this thread is merely in discussion taking into addition that data in the other threads as well. Where those threads are in discussion mostly consisting of said data. This thread is mostly of a general discussion upon the topic.
You were insulting a whole group of people, any way you slice it. It doesn't make it OK that you weren't targeting a specific person. That's like arguing that murder is wrong, but genocide is OK.
I was being blunt. It felt like aggression to you because it stung due to the embarrassment of being factually wrong, not because you were being personally attacked. I wasn't calling you names, I was saying that you were factually wrong; that's not an attack.
The fact PWE owns Cryptic doesn't make them the customer. Sure if you want to talk corporate buzzword speak then yes they are an internal customer. Your posts while professionally worded and long are completely deluded. Your posts are full of rhetoric typical of mid level managers or politicians meant to sound informed and important while not understanding the issue at its core.
Regardless of how you want to spin it the customer is you and I and every other player who has or will spend money on the game. The voice that matters is the overall collective opinion of that group within reason as long as expectations can be executed with a profit. WE are the people PWE and the shareholders want to spend money. WE are the people they want to be happy and engaged because that is what makes us spend the money. Sometimes you obviously will not execute what the customer wants but at the very least you can show some empathy and have a presence that at least lets them know you are listening. That is completely missing.
I am not asking you if they are mismanaged. I am telling you they are either mismanaged OR the company is simply a cash grab. Why do I say that and why do many people vent? Look how many bugs were carried over from their other games. Look how long bugs they introduce in patches last.
Regarding the shareholders they are investors not customers. I am sure they are not very happy at the moment. They aren't mad at me though and most likely wouldn't disagree with me. Some of the things that have happened in the "beta" were inexcusable mistakes.
Reply and argue all you want but one thing is clear WE are the customers and our opinion counts. When companies forget that they die.
A good number of the TR nerf complaints are devoid of anything other than complaint. Many of those posting provide no constructive criticism, alternative options, relevant data, or anything else other than complaint.
Complaints empty of anything other than complaint are simply expressions of discontent with no evidence of validity whatsoever. As such, they are empty complaints with no value to anyone, that simply boost the number of complaint posts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAOxCqSxRD0
Unfortunately, the last two pages of this thread contain barely anything but veiled personal attacks and complaints about complainers complaining. I'm surprised people haven't starting correcting each other's typo's yet.
Not helpful people.
Somebody seriously lied to you.
This is their real theme song. Everytime they come up with an good idea they know will work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll3uipTO-4A
PinkSugar, lvl 60 CW.
Baby Cakes, lvl 60 GWF.
*******, lvl 60 TR.
Premium Juicebox, lvl 60 CW.
Pink Exxxtacy, Ranger
There is NO pvp in Neverwinter.
Increase the range at which PCs can see stealthed characters, obviously makes the rogue a bit easier to control, but at least you would have more chance at knowing where the damage was coming from.
Reducing bait and switch.
DPS of the striker class should be significantly above the other classes that bring something else to the table. By significant that means being wanted in groups. The combined effect of these multiple nerfs in one go ,make it higher likely that the rogue becomes the red headed step child that nobody wants to play with.
I'm afraid you're very mistaken, explaining that devs are not customer facing, and hence don't have the paying public as their customer, is not rhetoric typical of mid level managers or politicians meant to sound informed and important while not understanding the issue at its core; it's knowing what I'm talking about. You've still never explained what you believe these issues are, but you've clearly stated that the people who hire the development staff are mismanaging and should be fired.
Here's an analogy. I worked for a bank making one of their core systems. The business decided what the system should do, we coded it to their specifications. They were my customer. If they had a problem with the system I'd look at it and answer to them. I didn't have a relationship with members of the public, they were customer of the bank but not my customer. If a customer of the bank had a problem they spoke to the business. If the problem was a system bug the business dealt with me and the customer was kept entirely out of the loop. If a customer didn't like something to do with the system that was between them and the business; we worked to spec and nothing else. Similar thing here.
I know full well that the paying public are customers, just not the customers of the people you are judging and criticising. The people that make those decisions are higher up the food chain. If you want to change your story from claiming the development team, those doing the hiring of staff who code, who do 3d modelling, etc. and who do not and should not cover for each other, are mismanaging things and now change that to the people at PWE who DO make the decisions about what the devs should be working on, then that's fine. I just don't like to sit back and watch someone berate someone else for "pretending to know the company structure" whilst doing exactly the same thing a few seconds later. All of this could have been avoided after my second post.
I've clearly said that I do not disagree that PWE operate a cash grab, as you put it. The fact that your response to that is to repeat it just seems to demonstrate that you don't understand what I said.
I will give you this. It is fair to say that we at least agree that it is likely they operate in a cash grab fashion. Based on that I would at least agree you could be correct that the management of Cryptic is doing as instructed by PWE.
Nobody sees a problem with permastealth soloing elite dungeons?
Nobody sees a problem when a single target DPS can out DPS an AOE class in a dungeon filled with 1k adds? Really?
TRs need toned down. Once the tears dry if they need a nudge back in the right direction for damage then it will be done.
Remember GWF was crushed in beta... They nudged them back up.
So its no big deal if people refuse to play with your rogue in the group for the next 2 months because you dont contribute like other classes do, until they nudge their output back up again?
You guys didn't seem to mind when GWF was left out...
Besides you folks are down playing how much dps you will still do after the patch.
You have to be doing something wrong then if you are competing with the DC on DPS since the primary role of DC is to heal.
The one and only thing a TR can bring to a group is boss damage. GWF can clear adds, take huge amounts of damage, and kite enemies. CW can CC indefinitely and bump trash. Why take a TR when GWF or CW could do more damage? No reason, ever.
I don't even play a TR but I see how valuable a class dedicated to boss damage is, why do other classes not care about this? I don't want to take 10 extra minutes killing bosses from now on do you? Spellplague final boss is going to be just stupid if TR does 38% less damage.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
False by a long shot. I was one of the people who posted that they should not nerf any class to the level they did GWF literally because of the fact that players werent allowing them into their groups.
So, with the nature of your post indicating its no big deal, you dont mind if YOUR ROGUE is denied access to groups due to lack of contribution potential? Please answer the question.