Nobody sees a problem with permastealth soloing elite dungeons?
Nobody sees a problem when a single target DPS can out DPS an AOE class in a dungeon filled with 1k adds? Really?
TRs need toned down. Once the tears dry if they need a nudge back in the right direction for damage then it will be done.
Remember GWF was crushed in beta... They nudged them back up.
So its no big deal if people refuse to play with your rogue in the group for the next 2 months because you dont contribute like other classes do, until they nudge their output back up again?
So its no big deal if people refuse to play with your rogue in the group for the next 2 months because you dont contribute like other classes do, until they nudge their output back up again?
You guys didn't seem to mind when GWF was left out...
Besides you folks are down playing how much dps you will still do after the patch.
0
Options
ta1ch0u1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
I just love there is no feed back from the devs, or anything to note that they are seriously looking into it or any other possible changes other than basically killing off a class. So it looks like this is going to happen no matter what feed back we give them from test. Why would any group bring a TR to a group after this patch when you could have another 1 hit boss killing CW in your group? I would be fine re rolling another toon if they would only allow us to take our stone companions; and any other cash shop items, off of our now totally useless class.
0
Options
ta1ch0u1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
there is no down playing, i went from topping the zone wide to fighting to stay above the DC, and Im str/exec build full swashbuckling/gg with stone... that is just dumb.. I don't expect to be the top dps; should be the best single target cuz that is our only job, but to be just a little better than the healer in damage while every other class out surpasses you is crazy and there would be no need or desire to bring one after patch to any zone.
there is no down playing, i went from topping the zone wide to fighting to stay above the DC, and Im str/exec build full swashbuckling/gg with stone... that is just dumb.. I don't expect to be the top dps; should be the best single target cuz that is our only job, but to be just a little better than the healer in damage while every other class out surpasses you is crazy and there would be no need or desire to bring one after patch to any zone.
You have to be doing something wrong then if you are competing with the DC on DPS since the primary role of DC is to heal.
Everyone agrees that perma-stealth has to go, but no one agrees with cryptic's way of solving it. It would be as easy as a debuff timer on a boss, after 6-8 seconds boss reveals you from stealth, maybe 10 for lurkers. In PvP whenever you use an at-will people can see your outline just like when you get really close to them, this stops players from simply throwing knives all day. How easy is that? but instead people want to just nerf them to below GWF/CW in damage.
The one and only thing a TR can bring to a group is boss damage. GWF can clear adds, take huge amounts of damage, and kite enemies. CW can CC indefinitely and bump trash. Why take a TR when GWF or CW could do more damage? No reason, ever.
I don't even play a TR but I see how valuable a class dedicated to boss damage is, why do other classes not care about this? I don't want to take 10 extra minutes killing bosses from now on do you? Spellplague final boss is going to be just stupid if TR does 38% less damage.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
You guys didn't seem to mind when GWF was left out...
Besides you folks are down playing how much dps you will still do after the patch.
False by a long shot. I was one of the people who posted that they should not nerf any class to the level they did GWF literally because of the fact that players werent allowing them into their groups.
So, with the nature of your post indicating its no big deal, you dont mind if YOUR ROGUE is denied access to groups due to lack of contribution potential? Please answer the question.
So remove pvp for all classes and add a pvp class&race with locked skills and stats. Then everyone is on an even playing ground and us pve players can finally enjoy the game.
Out of this entire discussion, this is the best quote so far. PvP will ALWAYS BUTCHER PvE when you try to put them in the same game UNLESS you isolate them from each other. period.
Y'all want the nerfbat to stop swinging? stop playing PvP. Petition Cryptic to remove it from game or isolate it completely. LOtRO probably has the best version of this i can think of. PvP has a completely separate group of classes (freeps, or orc classes) that you have the option of creating and playing against player classes...and you can do both.
PvP and PvE cannot mix in the same game without one being neglected. So gratz guys....playing PvP is killing the PvE in this game. pat yourself on the back.
False by a long shot. I was one of the people who posted that they should not nerf any class to the level they did GWF literally because of the fact that players werent allowing them into their groups.
So, with the nature of your post indicating its no big deal, you dont mind if YOUR ROGUE is denied access to groups due to lack of contribution potential? Please answer the question.
I never had an issue. I run with guild members. We will always take a TR regardless of the tuning.
Every MMO should already be doing PvP and PvE separate balance changes. It's like the best concept there is to balance around 1 thing without interfering with the other.
There will never be a close balance if one thing gets changed simply because of PvP reasons or PvE reasons. One will almost always break the other.
If you applied the TR changes just strictly to PvP it would be all fine and dandy. Although Perm-Stealth TR shouldn't exist in PvE either.
I never had an issue. I run with guild members. We will always take a TR regardless of the tuning.
2x avoiding answering the question. The reality is you dont have a rogue, and are basking in the tears of those who do because you think they supported the past nerf of the GWF you do have. If you never had an issue as you claim, you wouldnt be calling the thread 40 pages of tears, or justifying doing so through accusing others of supporting nerfs of GWF.
2x avoiding answering the question. The reality is you dont have a rogue, and are basking in the tears of those who do because you think they supported the past nerf of the GWF you do have. If you never had an issue as you claim, you wouldnt be calling the thread 40 pages of tears, or justifying doing so through accusing others of supporting nerfs of GWF.
Rogues are OP. You fail or refuse to see that.
I also said that if they over tune TRs they will nudge them back in the right direction.
Yes...41 pages of tears. Your first MMO? Welcome to the world of balance that will be an endless cycle.
It always comes down to this when you ask people who are for nerf for clarification. "I think TR's are too strong, don't care about numbers or consequences, nerf them now please!"
We need a real debate, to come up with real solutions, not just nerf them into no fun to play.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Whats the piont of balancing PVP when pvp sucks to begin with. One map Woohoo, one game type woohoo. Full of botz woohoo. Ya that sounds like so much fun.
Making glory items BoP will not stop botz. They would have to nerf exp gained to like only 5% of what we get now also to put even a dent in getting PVP botz to a managed level.
Botz rule this game not the basic over all player base they have made most of the changes not the people who dont cheat.
Then a lot of Rogue players will quit the game or reroll to another class. Simple as that.
There will be some Rogues who will deal with Cryptic's ineptitude by using a different build that doesn't rely on stealth, Duelist's Flurry, and Lurker's to do damage. These select few players will endure Cryptic's butchering of the Rogue class and still do well both in PvE and PvP.
Regardless of what happens, we are witnessing once again, what Cryptic's philosophy is when responding to daily forum whining from the same dozen or so trolls: They destroy a class. They did it before with GWF right before launch. They tried to do it to Clerics and Rogues once before too. Now, they're finishing what they started with a 2nd major Rogue nerf.
We now know that this company has no clue how to balance and fix this game. They overreact and overnerf whatever they (or the forum) think is overpowered. Instead of fine tuning and carefully balancing each class, they make crazy nerfs that destroy core class mechanics. Instead of testing these changes and actually having a dialog with players that try to help them test their changes, they remain silent, keeping everyone in the dark about why they're doing what they're doing. 10 days and counting since this bombshell hit the forums and test servers and not 1 single response from a dev as to why they want to destroy the Rogue class.
I agree with most of the points. I play a DC, but I've never had much a problem with rogues, I just dodge when I see them sneaking about behind me, unlike some stupid people who will literally stand still throughout their entire combo instead of running or doding away or pushing the meleer away. I have more of a problems with CW that can 1-shot from afar and CW and GWF both that can CC-lock.
STOP breaking PVE because of PVP (and vice versa).
But the thing I hate the most is that heals count for jack squat in PVP.
0
Options
fusedmassMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 252Bounty Hunter
Out of this entire discussion, this is the best quote so far. PvP will ALWAYS BUTCHER PvE when you try to put them in the same game UNLESS you isolate them from each other. period.
Y'all want the nerfbat to stop swinging? stop playing PvP. Petition Cryptic to remove it from game or isolate it completely. LOtRO probably has the best version of this i can think of. PvP has a completely separate group of classes (freeps, or orc classes) that you have the option of creating and playing against player classes...and you can do both.
PvP and PvE cannot mix in the same game without one being neglected. So gratz guys....playing PvP is killing the PvE in this game. pat yourself on the back.
I doubt, very seriously. Never in a billion years, would they remove PVP. Because their are some people like myself, who enjoy quickly having a short wait time on PVP, spending an estimated 15 minutes, rather then 45-1 hour on dungeons.
People need to accept, that the nerf will happen. I was once upset how Guardians seemed to be over powered. They wore the strongest gear, yet you could spec them to a dps mode. I finally, after being discouraged many attempts trying to bring the situation to light.
Decided, simply to roll one myself. There are only five classes. Simply change it, if you're not comfortable with the new changes. It's very easy to level up.
At the very least they should make stats separate for PVE and PVP, like in City of Heros (rip).
They could, and I belive its even been discussed. They could make stats only appear in PVP, and return to normal once you leave. Much like if you're level 20, and you're upgraded to level 29 in the PVP. I think this could be done.
First off, drake seal items no longer tradable? Really? The ONLY thing that made drake seal items have any value was that they could be traded. By the time you get enough seals to buy any of the items, you won't need the drake seal items because the chances of getting better equipment is much higher than the amount of seals that drop. The ONLY thing that gave them value was that you could collect them and buy items for either alts or to help up and coming guildmates with gear. This change alone will make drake seal items only worth gold but 1.5 gold?
Glory, too, will be useless. No point in PVP at 60 now cept for dailies.
While I agree that rogues do not need another change, it would seriously make yours, and every other person who doesn't get its post a lot more readable if you all could get it through your thick skull that the people who work on the cash shop (which any free to play game needs) and those that produce new content, and the those that fix bugs are all completely different divisions of the company. They do not work together on any level. Because a few new cash shop items are released does not mean people quit working on fixing bugs. Also, if the cash shop was not being added to or did not exist, you would not be complaining about this game... because you would not be playing it, as it would not be here.
While I agree that cash shop needs to be existed in order for a so called "free to play" kind of games to exist. But where are the boundaries between reasonability and pure greed ??? I will give you a hint: Cryptics owned by PW a China based company. Now take that and figure it out for yourself.
Comments
Nobody sees a problem with permastealth soloing elite dungeons?
Nobody sees a problem when a single target DPS can out DPS an AOE class in a dungeon filled with 1k adds? Really?
TRs need toned down. Once the tears dry if they need a nudge back in the right direction for damage then it will be done.
Remember GWF was crushed in beta... They nudged them back up.
So its no big deal if people refuse to play with your rogue in the group for the next 2 months because you dont contribute like other classes do, until they nudge their output back up again?
You guys didn't seem to mind when GWF was left out...
Besides you folks are down playing how much dps you will still do after the patch.
You have to be doing something wrong then if you are competing with the DC on DPS since the primary role of DC is to heal.
The one and only thing a TR can bring to a group is boss damage. GWF can clear adds, take huge amounts of damage, and kite enemies. CW can CC indefinitely and bump trash. Why take a TR when GWF or CW could do more damage? No reason, ever.
I don't even play a TR but I see how valuable a class dedicated to boss damage is, why do other classes not care about this? I don't want to take 10 extra minutes killing bosses from now on do you? Spellplague final boss is going to be just stupid if TR does 38% less damage.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
False by a long shot. I was one of the people who posted that they should not nerf any class to the level they did GWF literally because of the fact that players werent allowing them into their groups.
So, with the nature of your post indicating its no big deal, you dont mind if YOUR ROGUE is denied access to groups due to lack of contribution potential? Please answer the question.
Out of this entire discussion, this is the best quote so far. PvP will ALWAYS BUTCHER PvE when you try to put them in the same game UNLESS you isolate them from each other. period.
Y'all want the nerfbat to stop swinging? stop playing PvP. Petition Cryptic to remove it from game or isolate it completely. LOtRO probably has the best version of this i can think of. PvP has a completely separate group of classes (freeps, or orc classes) that you have the option of creating and playing against player classes...and you can do both.
PvP and PvE cannot mix in the same game without one being neglected. So gratz guys....playing PvP is killing the PvE in this game. pat yourself on the back.
I never had an issue. I run with guild members. We will always take a TR regardless of the tuning.
There will never be a close balance if one thing gets changed simply because of PvP reasons or PvE reasons. One will almost always break the other.
If you applied the TR changes just strictly to PvP it would be all fine and dandy. Although Perm-Stealth TR shouldn't exist in PvE either.
2x avoiding answering the question. The reality is you dont have a rogue, and are basking in the tears of those who do because you think they supported the past nerf of the GWF you do have. If you never had an issue as you claim, you wouldnt be calling the thread 40 pages of tears, or justifying doing so through accusing others of supporting nerfs of GWF.
Rogues are OP. You fail or refuse to see that.
I also said that if they over tune TRs they will nudge them back in the right direction.
Yes...41 pages of tears. Your first MMO? Welcome to the world of balance that will be an endless cycle.
It always comes down to this when you ask people who are for nerf for clarification. "I think TR's are too strong, don't care about numbers or consequences, nerf them now please!"
We need a real debate, to come up with real solutions, not just nerf them into no fun to play.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Making glory items BoP will not stop botz. They would have to nerf exp gained to like only 5% of what we get now also to put even a dent in getting PVP botz to a managed level.
Botz rule this game not the basic over all player base they have made most of the changes not the people who dont cheat.
Then a lot of Rogue players will quit the game or reroll to another class. Simple as that.
There will be some Rogues who will deal with Cryptic's ineptitude by using a different build that doesn't rely on stealth, Duelist's Flurry, and Lurker's to do damage. These select few players will endure Cryptic's butchering of the Rogue class and still do well both in PvE and PvP.
Regardless of what happens, we are witnessing once again, what Cryptic's philosophy is when responding to daily forum whining from the same dozen or so trolls: They destroy a class. They did it before with GWF right before launch. They tried to do it to Clerics and Rogues once before too. Now, they're finishing what they started with a 2nd major Rogue nerf.
We now know that this company has no clue how to balance and fix this game. They overreact and overnerf whatever they (or the forum) think is overpowered. Instead of fine tuning and carefully balancing each class, they make crazy nerfs that destroy core class mechanics. Instead of testing these changes and actually having a dialog with players that try to help them test their changes, they remain silent, keeping everyone in the dark about why they're doing what they're doing. 10 days and counting since this bombshell hit the forums and test servers and not 1 single response from a dev as to why they want to destroy the Rogue class.
STOP breaking PVE because of PVP (and vice versa).
But the thing I hate the most is that heals count for jack squat in PVP.
I doubt, very seriously. Never in a billion years, would they remove PVP. Because their are some people like myself, who enjoy quickly having a short wait time on PVP, spending an estimated 15 minutes, rather then 45-1 hour on dungeons.
People need to accept, that the nerf will happen. I was once upset how Guardians seemed to be over powered. They wore the strongest gear, yet you could spec them to a dps mode. I finally, after being discouraged many attempts trying to bring the situation to light.
Decided, simply to roll one myself. There are only five classes. Simply change it, if you're not comfortable with the new changes. It's very easy to level up.
They could, and I belive its even been discussed. They could make stats only appear in PVP, and return to normal once you leave. Much like if you're level 20, and you're upgraded to level 29 in the PVP. I think this could be done.
Glory, too, will be useless. No point in PVP at 60 now cept for dailies.
I seriously laughed hard when this appeared out of nowhere, I mean hard enough to eject my skeleton from my skin.
I'm glad it's being read. Thanks.
If the TRs are nerfed, I hope it's in PvP only and not PvE. Thought it seems all MMOs nerf classes globally.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?429441-Trickster-Rogue-Changes
I'm sure some people will still manage to complain about this.
Called it.
If you are listening then where are the zen store price changes. Or the bazzar market prices going to drop to be inline with the AH prices.
While I agree that cash shop needs to be existed in order for a so called "free to play" kind of games to exist. But where are the boundaries between reasonability and pure greed ??? I will give you a hint: Cryptics owned by PW a China based company. Now take that and figure it out for yourself.